New cache icon for night cache's

[+Haastruppedersen]

I was thinking about that i would be a nice thing with a seperat icon for the night cahe types, the ones were you have to find your way with a flashlight, from one reflex to another.

 

What do you think ?

 

Kind regards

Haastruppedersen / Thomas

[GOF and Bacall]

Perhaps a night only attribute.

[Skippermark]

They already exist.

 

Edit to add that I thought you were talking about attributes, but am guessing you're asking for a new cache type.

 

I'm in the "no" camp on this. It can already be done with the attributes.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Skippermark

[+JacobBarlow]

They already exist.

 

Edit to add that I thought you were talking about attributes, but am guessing you're asking for a new cache type.

 

I'm in the "no" camp on this. It can already be done with the attributes.

 

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

[+Kit Fox]

 

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

 

Had you bothered to read the description first , perhaps this wouldn't happen.

 

The majority of night caches i've seen listed were listed as puzzles, with few being letterbox hybrids, and multis. I've never seen a single night cache listed as a traditional.

 

Many previous thread discussing a new icon for night caches have gone nowhere.

[+J-Way]

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

[insert obligatory reference to the hazards of attempting to find any cache without reading the description first, much less one with the higher difficulty rating typically associated with night caches.]

 

Edit: Drat, Kit Fox beat me to it. I don't think I've ever seen a "night only" cache listed as a traditional, but I HAVE seen many traditional caches that could only be hunted at certain times. Caches in parks that are only open during daylight hours, caches in areas only available during business hours when nearby businesses are open, caches at businesses that are off limits during the day and can only be hunted after 5:00 PM, caches that are only available on certain days, etc. I have one that is in a daylight-only park, and one that the property owner requested NOT be hunted at night (she wanted it available only when the business is open, but I talked her out of that one).

 

It's not fun to have a cache archived because the land owner revoked permission after non-description-reading cachers were trespassing on private property during off-limit times.

 

But back OT, this request comes up ever few weeks or so (twice this week, so far). A few people like it, most responders don't like it, the existing attributes that identify night caches are mentioned, and the subject is dropped until next time.

Edited May 29, 2009 by J-Way

[+gof1]

They already exist.

 

Edit to add that I thought you were talking about attributes, but am guessing you're asking for a new cache type.

 

I'm in the "no" camp on this. It can already be done with the attributes.

 

Recommended at night and only available at night aren't quite the same.

 

 

 

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

It didn't take long for the "You should read every cache page before you hunt" replies. I do understand the "into the unknown adventure" allure to just seeing where the receiver leads you to. This should be possible for traditional caches. Unfortunately there is the risk that it doesn't go anyplace or anyplace that you want to go. The proper use of the attributes and the proper attributes make it easier to filter caches so you can enjoy this approach. That means that you are at the mercy of the cache owners knowledge of how to set them and their diligence in actually doing it.

 

Perhaps they should be listed as mystery/puzzle caches. There is precedent for such a move with the old ALR caches. Then again we all know where that led.

[Skippermark]

Recommended at night and only available at night aren't quite the same.

I've always considered the recommended at night attribute to be that the cache is a night cache. Not sure if I've ever seen a cache with it that wasn't a night cache.

 

I like to see night caches as mysteries, but a lot are multis too. Unsure if I've ever seen a traditional night cache.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Skippermark

[+JohnE5]

Why is every so opposed to making a new cache type for anything? By all the logic I've seen written above why not make all caches tradionals and add puzzle, letterbox, Wherigo, earthcache, and multi attributes?

[+gof1]

I honestly don't know. I don't recall anything stating that they need to be listed as a mystery/puzzle. They should be.

[+JacobBarlow]

 

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

 

Had you bothered to read the description first , perhaps this wouldn't happen.

 

The majority of night caches i've seen listed were listed as puzzles, with few being letterbox hybrids, and multis. I've never seen a single night cache listed as a traditional.

 

Many previous thread discussing a new icon for night caches have gone nowhere.

 

I like to go out a travel all over my state and the nearby states every weekend and find many caches, which makes reading the description impossible... But I don't load in "Unknown" type caches on those hunts.

 

There are a lot of night caches listed as traditionals in Utah, I'm glad its apparently not an issue in other places.

[+gof1]

Why is every so opposed to making a new cache type for anything? By all the logic I've seen written above why not make all caches tradionals and add puzzle, letterbox, Wherigo, earthcache, and multi attributes?

It's a balance act. At some point too many choices in cache types and attributes becomes too unwieldy.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I think they should have to be listed as unknowns, its not fun to go to a traditional during the day, find nothing, and then go home and read that you have to come at night and look for reflectors..

 

Had you bothered to read the description first , perhaps this wouldn't happen.

 

The majority of night caches i've seen listed were listed as puzzles, with few being letterbox hybrids, and multis. I've never seen a single night cache listed as a traditional.

 

 

Just to be a smart aleck Admittedly from the olden days, when reviewers seemed to be a little less strict.

 

I actually list mine (placed in 2004) as a mult cache. I'd bet most people disagree with that, and think it should be an unknown type. Even I agree with that now.

 

And to answer the original question, this icon thing has come up many times before, and I feel fairly certain it's never going to happen.

[+briansnat]

I honestly don't know. I don't recall anything stating that they need to be listed as a mystery/puzzle. They should be.

 

In most instances I'd say night caches should be listed as multis, as they are a type of offset cache. Usually with mystery/puzzle caches there is nothing to find at the posted coords, whereas with a muli, there is some visual clue, whether a container with coordinates, a plaque, or in the case of a night cache reflectors, that eventually lead to the cache.

Edited May 29, 2009 by briansnat

[+The Waysiders]

I don't think I've ever seen a "night only" cache listed as a traditional, but I HAVE seen many traditional caches that could only be hunted at certain times.

 

Here's one near me. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ff-1afd41ccec61

[Skippermark]

In most instances I'd say night caches should be listed as multis, as they are a type of offset cache. Usually with mystery/puzzle caches there is nothing to find at the posted coords, whereas with a muli, there is some visual clue, whether a container with coordinates, a plaque, or in the case of a night cache reflectors, that eventually lead to the cache.

Good point, Brian.

[+J-Way]

I don't think I've ever seen a "night only" cache listed as a traditional, but I HAVE seen many traditional caches that could only be hunted at certain times.

Here's one near me. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ff-1afd41ccec61

Doesn't comply with the requirements, but it may be grandfathered in. I believe the official change in the guidelines that requires all traditional caches be at the listed coordinates occurred about a month after that cache was listed.

[+tozainamboku]

Why is every so opposed to making a new cache type for anything? By all the logic I've seen written above why not make all caches tradionals and add puzzle, letterbox, Wherigo, earthcache, and multi attributes?

At one time, there were no cache types (or icons to go with them). While back then most caches were traditionals, if you wanted you add something to the description to indicate this was a multi cache, a virtual cache, a puzzle, or some other mystery type that you would need to figure out to find the cache. Of course people wanted a way to to tell at glance what type the cache was, so TPTB added the concept of type. A traditional cache would be one hidden at the posted coordinates. A multi cache would be one where you had to find several items - usually each having the coordinates for the next, though the definition was left open to allow other variations. Puzzles where you had to figure out coordinates were listed a mystery cache, but again this category was left open to allow any other cache that didn't fit into another category. And there were virtual caches, where you found some object that was already at that location (not a physical cache). After introducing these types, TPTB didn't stop. Some people wanted to hide caches and list them on letterboxing sites as well as on GC.com. TPTB didn't have a convenient solution like attributes so they added the letterbox hybrid type. It made no sense since as far as Geocaching was concern this was just a traditional (or other type) cache that happened to be listed as a letterbox as well. Many people began to use this for any cache that uses letterboxing style clues to find the cache (although this would probably already have been covered by the multi cache type). It became stranger when a movie studio came up with the idea of promoting their film by hiding caches. The Project A.P.E. type was born. Now you might as well have a new type for everything. And types continued to be created. Webcam caches for getting your picture taken (no cache). Locationless caches for "do anywhere" virtual caches. Events could be listed using the Event type, and later there was a decision to have a special kind of event called C.I.T.O. Even later came the idea of MegaEvents. A proposal from the Geological Society of America resulted in a new kind of virtual cache called an EarthCache. And more recently we've gotten Wherigo caches and GPS Maze caches. And who know what a Geocaching Course is?

 

The usefulness of the basic types has been diluted. It use to tell you that you could find a traditional cache at the posted coordinates, that a multi required you to find more than one stage, and that anything else was a mystery/unknown that you'd need to figure out what to do. Other types don't respect these distinctions. A letterbox hybrid can be traditional, multi, or puzzle. Even virtual caches could be traditional, multi, or puzzle. Perhaps a night caches is always a type of puzzle but maybe it could be a multi or even traditional. Adding types is probably not the best way to address these issues as that just leads to confusion when someone isn't sure which type there cache is. (We still see this with multi caches that have a puzzle component).

 

There is a practical issue with adding cache types now as well. 3rd party tools and GPS units that read the Geocaching.com GPX file format, use the cache type for various purposes such as deciding what icon to display. Everytime TPTB add a new cache type they break a lot of 3rd party software. New types have to be coordinated with a lot of people to make sure software is updated so it can handle new types. Hopefully, the 3rd party providers realize that there many be new cache types so they don't crash if they see one, but I'm not sure this is the case.

[Mr.Yuck]

In most instances I'd say night caches should be listed as multis, as they are a type of offset cache. Usually with mystery/puzzle caches there is nothing to find at the posted coords, whereas with a muli, there is some visual clue, whether a container with coordinates, a plaque, or in the case of a night cache reflectors, that eventually lead to the cache.

Good point, Brian.

 

I'll say. He convinced me, even though I said the exact opposite earlier in the thread.