Where do you draw the line....?

[Old_Philosopher]

 

Ho hum.

 

Geocaching is at it's base, hide-n-seek. One person's trache is another person's well earned smiley.

 

This is an all volunteer community. It's important to keep that in mind..... To down the efforts of those that want to participate by judgeing folks on your own personal aesthetic criteria is the essence of the entitlement mentality. Don't worry. You're not alone.

Interesting choice of words. I guess not wanting to spend time researching a cache, gassing up the family car, and ending up in a garbage dump violates my 'entitlement mentality'.

Geocaches are choices. As responsible individuals we are ultimatly to blame for our choices of how we spend our free quality time. I think of my free quality time as money. I spend it wisely.

My point exactly. Following a clue to a gut pile, or litter of needles doesn't qualify as 'quality time' to me.

Don't expect others to cater to you. There's caches enough for every taste. Go seek the ones you like best and leave the rest for the folks that like them.

I don't expect anyone to "cater to me". I only hoped that people involved in geocaching regarded it as another opportunity for outdoor recreation...not maliciously directing people to hazardous locations. It doesn't sound from other posts in this thread that many folks "like" some of these locations.

Go to a few events and meet your fellow cachers in your local caching continuum. Dregs is not the word that will come to mind.

I'm sure the folks who show up with their families at a social gathering are sincere, down-to-earth people who share a love of adventure and recreational opportunities. I seriously doubt that the individuals who would cache in a dump, or doper's hang out would ever show up at such a gathering.

I've got to add that I'm a little disappointed in the "like it or lump it" attitude from someone who's been in the "game" so long.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Palaxius

[Clan Riffster]

There's caches enough for every taste. Go seek the ones you like best and leave the rest for the folks that like them.

Normally, that's great advice, (advice I practice myself), however it's often difficult to judge by the cache page if ground zero has become a dumping ground for drug addicts, alcoholics and/or litterbugs. To date, I've only had one cache owner post on their cache page that their chosen spot was desperately in need of a CITO. Every other cache location I found like that had to be discovered upon actually reaching said spot. So, if your goal is to avoid caches in trash heaps, developing a method to "Go Seek What You Like" might be more difficult than you believe.

 

Personally, I have no qualms criticizing a hider who intentionally places a cache in a detritus filled area.

 

Entitlement?

 

Maybe.

 

If so, I can live with that.

[+sbell111]

if you went to a cache and saw 3 hypo needles in the 2 minutes you were there , had no gloves with you would you stick around to do a little CITO ?

Absolutely. I would think that CITOing hypodermic needles would be even more necessary than CITOing beer bottles.

Well enjoy the possibility of Hepatitis or AIDS then....

I think that you are overreacting. A used needle can be picked up and disposed of safely without gloves.

Even the most careful people can be accidentally pricked and all it would take is getting pricked once. Better safe than sorry.

If you take a close look at those needles, you will find that unlike a cat, the needles are only pointy at one end and they don't really get wiggly. Any person with his/her brain in the game can easily pick a needle up and dispose of it safely.

 

However, leaving it in place presents a clear and present danger to anyone who wanders by after you.

[+Snoogans]

 

Ho hum.

 

Geocaching is at it's base, hide-n-seek. One person's trache is another person's well earned smiley.

 

This is an all volunteer community. It's important to keep that in mind..... To down the efforts of those that want to participate by judgeing folks on your own personal aesthetic criteria is the essence of the entitlement mentality. Don't worry. You're not alone.

 

Interesting choice of words. I guess not wanting to spend time researching a cache, gassing up the family car, and ending up in a garbage dump violates my 'entitlement mentality'.

 

Snoogans answers in red: If you spend time researching a cache, the logs and the satellite view should tell you if the cache is worth your time 95% of the time.

Geocaches are choices. As responsible individuals we are ultimatly to blame for our choices of how we spend our free quality time. I think of my free quality time as money. I spend it wisely.

My point exactly. Following a clue to a gut pile, or litter of needles doesn't qualify as 'quality time' to me.

 

If you do your homework that usually doesn't happen.

Don't expect others to cater to you. There's caches enough for every taste. Go seek the ones you like best and leave the rest for the folks that like them.

I don't expect anyone to "cater to me". I only hoped that people involved in geocaching regarded it as another opportunity for outdoor recreation...not maliciously directing people to hazardous locations. It doesn't sound from other posts in this thread that many folks "like" some of these locations.

 

I've cached 26 states & 3 countries..... I've never found a cache that seemed like malicious direction. Have you in your vast experience?

Go to a few events and meet your fellow cachers in your local caching continuum. Dregs is not the word that will come to mind.

I'm sure the folks who show up with their families at a social gathering are sincere, down-to-earth people who share a love of adventure and recreational opportunities. I seriously doubt that the individuals who would cache in a dump, or doper's hang out would ever show up at such a gathering.

 

You're sure huh. Times change and locations change with them. What was once a nice pocket park can become a doper zone, or a pickle park, or a dump in a very short time. I've seen it happen in Houston a few times.

 

I've got to add that I'm a little disappointed in the "like it or lump it" attitude from someone who's been in the "game" so long.

 

Ummmmmm:

 

Hey gang, I finally identified yet another branch on the "Geocaching Tree of Angst!" It's bolded down at the bottom.

 

To summarize our "Geocaching Tree of Angst" so far:

 

We have an atmosphere rich with CO2 that is represented by one atom of "Entitlement" ( C ) and two atoms of "Expectation." (O2)

 

We have a rich medium for the growth of angst in our soil, which is represented by a common/general, "unawareness that this hobby is intrinsically linked to other people."

 

The water (H2O) that nourishes the tree is either actual or perceived (H2) negative interaction (O) between geocachers.

 

Our tree is furtilized by misconception, misinterpretation, and misunderstanding (MMM) whether actual or deliberate.

 

The roots of our tree are based in actual participation and experience in geocaching as an activity.... Hiding, finding, & moving trackables.

 

The trunk of our tree emerges over time. It is actually just individual experience that expresses itself in this way, "I know better than YOU what geocaching is supposed/intended to be all about."

 

From there our "Tree of Angst" branches out in many directions. Some branches sprout from the trunk and some branches think they are attacking the trunk from the other side, but are seemingly unaware that they are part of the same tree.

 

The named branches of our tree so far:

 

The Theory of Geocaching Evolution

 

Geocaching would be more fun for me, IF

 

Perceived Staunch Defenders of Everything Perceived Lame (P.S.D.E.P.L.)

 

Geocaching was so much better way back when

 

The Theory That It's the "OTHER GUY" Who Is Just Sucking the Fun Out of Geocaching

Edited May 27, 2009 by Snoogans

[Old_Philosopher]

Hey gang, I finally identified yet another branch on the "Geocaching Tree of Angst!" It's bolded down at the bottom.

...

 

The Theory That It's the "OTHER GUY" Who Is Just Sucking the Fun Out of Geocaching

Eloquent analysis. Thanks for the reality check.

[modernman]

if you went to a cache and saw 3 hypo needles in the 2 minutes you were there , had no gloves with you would you stick around to do a little CITO ?

Absolutely. I would think that CITOing hypodermic needles would be even more necessary than CITOing beer bottles.

Well enjoy the possibility of Hepatitis or AIDS then....

I think that you are overreacting. A used needle can be picked up and disposed of safely without gloves.

Even the most careful people can be accidentally pricked and all it would take is getting pricked once. Better safe than sorry.

 

Seriously if you see a hypodermic needle, or condom call the local health department or the non-emergency number of the police department.

[+bittsen]

I recently found a cache that was placed with good intentions but passers by had decided to use the area as a toilet. I can see why. Not only was it a good secluded place for a cache but it was a good secluded place for a squat.

I just notified the cache owner and what they do from there is their issue. I am certain they are not aware their cache area is now a toilet because of the velue of the container alone.

 

When I go caching, I will grab a list of several. That way if I come across one that is gross, I can just move on to the next.

 

I think people who are utterly offended should get a thicker skin and not reply to the guys who hide the caches in gross conditions other than to inform them that the area is littered with garbage, feces, etc, whatever.

Some are true sociopaths and actually get a huge thrill out of the negativity that their garbagecaches produce. As always, on the internet and in real life, don't feed the trolls.

[+tmitchh]

Here's a post from my blog that had the Ickiest FTF I ever found.

 

http://headhardhat-geocache.blogspot.com/2...t-ftf-ever.html

 

Some genius placed a geocache at a hunting station where they gut deer.

 

Read On if interested.

 

-HHH

 

I say call the police and put it in the log. Everyone can stay safe that way. I know I won't pick it up. But a kid could easily come across a hypo anywhere else there isn't a cache.

[+tmitchh]

Here's a post from my blog that had the Ickiest FTF I ever found.

 

http://headhardhat-geocache.blogspot.com/2...t-ftf-ever.html

 

Some genius placed a geocache at a hunting station where they gut deer.

 

Read On if interested.

 

-HHH

 

I say call the police and put it in the log. Everyone can stay safe that way. I know I won't pick it up. But a kid could easily come across a hypo anywhere else there isn't a cache.

[+Unkle Fester]

There's caches enough for every taste. Go seek the ones you like best and leave the rest for the folks that like them.

Normally, that's great advice, (advice I practice myself), however it's often difficult to judge by the cache page if ground zero has become a dumping ground for drug addicts, alcoholics and/or litterbugs. To date, I've only had one cache owner post on their cache page that their chosen spot was desperately in need of a CITO. Every other cache location I found like that had to be discovered upon actually reaching said spot. So, if your goal is to avoid caches in trash heaps, developing a method to "Go Seek What You Like" might be more difficult than you believe.

 

Personally, I have no qualms criticizing a hider who intentionally places a cache in a detritus filled area.

 

Entitlement?

 

Maybe.

 

If so, I can live with that.

I will respect your Aw-thor-ah-tay!

 

Honestly, you can tell if a trash pile has been around for a while or if the accumulation just started. If it's an old junk spot, I will not look. Early on I did, before I realized that not every cache has to be recovered...

[+jeanne123]

If you take a close look at those needles, you will find that unlike a cat, the needles are only pointy at one end and they don't really get wiggly. Any person with his/her brain in the game can easily pick a needle up and dispose of it safely.

 

I still won't pick it up. Well, maybe if it is already within easy reach, but probably not. It's not the ones I can see that concern me. If it's a needle-dumping location, there are others around. It's the ones I don't see that would concern me - the one I might step on on my way, or the one that is laying there pointy end up to scratch my hand while reaching for the one I do see.

 

I would put something simple and non-accusatory in the DNF log - "There is a lot of trash here, including used hypodermic needles. I chose not to search in this area." I might also post a SBA if it is clear that the area has been used for a dump for a long time. And maybe call the authorities, although if it is that bad, they are probably already aware of it. These days most places are lacking in time and budget, and nasty jobs like this fall fairly low on the priority list.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

I agree that the best thing to do is walk away but what we think is worse is hiding caches in a bed of poison ivy. Yes, the cache may have been hidden in the middle of winter with no ivy showing, but after a log or two, the owner should take action.

Garbage is awful but a case of poison is terrible. Usually the garbage sites are easy to get to hence easy to walk away from but it may take you hours to find the poison ivy cache.

[+sbell111]

If you take a close look at those needles, you will find that unlike a cat, the needles are only pointy at one end and they don't really get wiggly. Any person with his/her brain in the game can easily pick a needle up and dispose of it safely.

 

I still won't pick it up. Well, maybe if it is already within easy reach, but probably not. It's not the ones I can see that concern me. If it's a needle-dumping location, there are others around. It's the ones I don't see that would concern me - the one I might step on on my way, or the one that is laying there pointy end up to scratch my hand while reaching for the one I do see.

 

I would put something simple and non-accusatory in the DNF log - "There is a lot of trash here, including used hypodermic needles. I chose not to search in this area." I might also post a SBA if it is clear that the area has been used for a dump for a long time. And maybe call the authorities, although if it is that bad, they are probably already aware of it. These days most places are lacking in time and budget, and nasty jobs like this fall fairly low on the priority list.

The only thing I can think of is that you guys cache in some seriously hard core areas. Personally, I have yet to see one of these hypo dumping grounds where the needles tether one of their own out and then ambush anyone that approaches it.

 

Sounds scary (and Steven Kingy).

[Clan Riffster]

I see the makings of a B grade horror flick:

The Attack of the Evil, Sentient Hypodermic Needles!!!

In 3-D!

[+sevenil7il]

There are many caches that I walk away from. Quite a few that we don't even get out of the car for. You're up against human nature and a desire to hide a cache just because one can. Just forget it and move on.

 

Today i got annoyed....there has to be a cache in every free newspaper box in Kenmore NY....where is the fun in that?

[+Snoogans]

There are many caches that I walk away from. Quite a few that we don't even get out of the car for. You're up against human nature and a desire to hide a cache just because one can. Just forget it and move on.

 

Today i got annoyed....there has to be a cache in every free newspaper box in Kenmore NY....where is the fun in that?

 

Newsflash: Geocaching is a game of hide and seek.

 

Geocaches represent choices of how to spend your free quality time. Be annoyed at yourself for not choosing wisely and not at the hider who obviously followed the rules to get their cache published.

 

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

 

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. - Snoogans - a while back

 

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

[aniyn]

Someone with small children once discovered a needle at one of my cache locations. A quick trip out there with an empty coke bottle solved that in a hurry. As a cache owner I feel it is my responcability to keep my cache locations safe and clean, and if I fail at that it's time for that cache to go.

 

My 2 cents.

[+Jess80&Mike99]

My boyfriend and I have been caching for about three months now and have hidden some caches of our own. We went to hide a cache today along one of my favorite rivers to go fishing at and we were disgusted wth the mess we found at a potential hidding spot. We found a less trashed out area, but also posted CITO would probably be a good idea on our cache page. We also left trash bags in the cache container. We were not able to pick up trash due to the storm coming our way. I am so disgusted I DO plan on returning to the area to pick up trash. There are a lot of caches in our area that are located in the locals' party spots (secluded areas out in the desert), that definitely need to be picked up. My boyfriend and I do not mind. We simply go find the cache, sign the log, and open our trash bag to be prepared for the walk/hike back to the vehicle. IMHO I do not believe one cacher can do it alone and I know our city does not plan on hiring anyone to do it. We are out there, we care about the area (the land, the environment, and the wildlife), so we pick up trash.

 

We once picked up four bags of trash while driving around, after finding the cache. Yes, we were disgusted, but we knew our efforts helped, even though they may never be noticed. I do consider geocaching a FUN activity, and CITO is a small price to pay for having fun.