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Do you log each DNF?


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I'm new to this, and just wondering why geocaches tend to have such a high proportion of "Find it" logs. Some caches have no DNFs logged at all, yet I could not find them after a bunch of searching. Sure, I'm a noob, but there must've been others who attempted the search and had to give up. So is it because people don't tend to log DNFs, or is it an unsubtle hint that I must really work on my geocaching skills? What percentage of your DNFs do you log?

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DNFs are an important part of the game and I will certainly log them IF i felt like I spent enough time looking for the cache. If I feel like I left with a stone unturned (so to speak) I won't log a DNF and will/would (if traveling) return. I don't want CO's to go trundling off to check on their caches for a DNF in which I did not give it a thorough search. On the other hand, if it's a cracking find and I just didn't find it, I have no problems logging a DNF -- it's sorta a win for the CO if they're trying to make a clever hide :(

 

As for percentage, I tend to spend a great deal of time at each cache and don't leave a lot of finds without a DNF.. probably a 85% DNF/No Log ratio for me I would guess... I'm new too so perhaps those stats will change.

 

The more I cache though the less my threshold for a DNF attempt goes down... In those cases, I log my DNF as a "you got me this time!" moment and state that I feel like I didn't put enough effort into the search and will be back. I think that to a lot of COs, this is as neat as an articulate find log and certainly more entertaining than a "TNLN/SL/TFTC" log.

 

However still if I just drop by for a sec and poke around for a micro, I won't log a DNF because I didnt look everywhere and likely if it's urban, it didnt take me anywhere worth reporting my time.

 

mrbort

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I haven't been at the game long enough to be really faced with the temptation to creep off shame-faced into the underbrush and pretend I never went anywhere near the dratted cache, so, yes, so far I've logged all my DNFs.

 

Today I felt miserable about a DNF, because I went out caching in an attempt to relax after a rotten day, and I simply could not find the thing. I ended up stamping around cursing all micros in all woods and throwing sticks at baby bunnies. But I logged the DNF anyways.

 

At the least, my DNF today may make somebody else feel better about their DNF tomorrow.

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my take on DNFs is that they serve a tri purpose...

 

1) Notify the owner that there might be something wrong with the cache -- should note in the DNF the time taken in the search

 

2) Alert other cachers of same (should note same)

 

3) Congratulate the owner on a great hide

 

All three are great and part of the game IMO... If I ever feel like I spent enough time at a cache to satisfy any of the three, I will certainly log a DNF. If I am on my way to somewhere and have a few minutes to poke around, I likely wont log a DNF for fear of log being interpreted as 1) or 2).... As i cache more I find that I am more and more inclined to log DNFs ... but now with clarity!

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Yes I log all my DNF's now. I do that as a courtesy to the owner. One so they know someone is trying to find their cache. They may want to check on it. Two well, they may want to check on it, three so I have people come up to me and say "you had a hard time finding that one?"

 

Plus I do like to go back and try to save face and find that cache.

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I personally have a criteria that has to be met for me to log a DNF.

 

1) If my geo-sniffer gets to antsy and wants to move on before I make a find... That's not a DNF. That's a note that I was looking and Tobi had other ideas. One doesn't argue with a 100 pound dog. :(

 

2) If I get to a location and there are too many muggles around to make a safe find.... That's not a DNF. Again that's a note.

 

3) If I've searched and searched to the best of my ability..... now that's a DNF and a return trip is warranted. I had one of those within the past two weeks. The return trip was with another person and we were successful. On my previous trip I had walked by the cache twice but Tobi, the geo-sniffer, was getting too antsy to let me spend more time there.

 

But those are the "rules/guidelines" that I go by. Others may have different guidelines.

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I'd guess that probably less than 50% of DNFs are logged. Maybe less than 25%. Many people can't be bothered, some people intend to return soon and try again. Some people consider a DNF to be akin to failure.

 

I log most of mine but sometimes I dont for any of the reasons mentioned above.

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If i spend over about 5 minutes trying to find a cache then i will log it as a DNF but if i search for it less than 5 minutes then i won't because i never really had a good oportunity to look for it and i will definitely attempt to look for the cache again.

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WHAT!!? Log a DNF and look like a LOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZER!!!? :o

 

I log all my DNF. The only thing is........I have never had to do that. You see, I am STILL LOOKING!! :laughing:

 

Ya gotta play the game the way YOU wanna play the game! :laughing:

 

(I heard somebody say that one time! :laughing: )

 

But enough of this DNF discussion, I have to go sign up for my "Armchair Cachers Society" meeting! :laughing::blink::unsure:

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hit goto - I have begun. If I end the search without a find - I log it as a DNF. Each and every time.

This is me. Once I hit GOTO, there can only be two possible outcomes. Either I find the cache or I don't find the cache.

 

I've got 102 documented DNFs, though I know I've missed a couple. Not because I didn't think they were DNFs, but because by the time I returned to computer access, I no longer could remember which caches I'd searched for. It's only happened a couple times.

 

Though it doesn't bother me, I've never understood how people can decide that some DNFs aren't really DNFs and not log them.

 

Jamie

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The folks that don't bother to log their DNF's are probably the same people that claim a find even tho they forgot to bring a writing stick and did not sign the log. I believe following all the rules of the road adds to the challenge of the game. If I actively hunt for the cache and can't come up with it, I log a DNF. If I get interrupted by one thing or another, I'll post a note about what happened.

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I log my DNFs.

 

I know some cachers who have never logged a single one.

 

If a cache has 2 DNFs, I may go look for it, but after not finding it, you talk to someone who says they and 2 other people searched last weekend and didn't find it either. So now that's 5 DNFs in a row (not counting yours) and if it's an easier cache, that changes everything.

 

I probably wouldn't go look for an easier cache with 5 DNFs, so now I just wasted a trip because someone didn't want to log a DNF.

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If I am nearby and I select a geocache loaded on my GPS and hit goto - I have begun. If I end the search without a find - I log it as a DNF. Each and every time.

 

That's how I do it. Once I hit "go to" the search has begun. If the search is fruitless I log a DNF. The only exception would be if I DNF a cache twice in the same day, say in the morning, then again in the evening. Those I'll combine into one DNF log.

 

Some people never log DNFs, some only log them if they are pretty sure the cache is missing, some only log them if the cache isn't missing, some only log them if they are not planning on returning, some only log them if they've searched for X minutes.

 

You should log them if you've started the search and come up empty. At what point you consider the search started is up to you.

Edited by briansnat
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Personally I am getting really tired of seeing DNFs on caches where the searcher just got tired and gave up. IF YOU DON'T GET TO GROUND ZERO OR DON'T LOOK THEN DON'T DNF! If you are the owner of the cache and you see DNFs it is to alert you that there is a problem. If cachers are logging DNFs without actually getting to the cache site then the owner could be spending a lot of time running out to check on caches that are perfectly fine.

 

From what I am seeing here is that if some of you "hit goto" and get to the parking area and then decide to not even get out of the dang car then you DNF the cache because you already "started the search" what a load of crap!

 

If you don't look for the cache and just feel you HAVE to leave a log then leave a note! Leaving a DNF on a cache that you didn't even look for is just plain rude to the person that hid the cache and is responsible to maintain it. I've seen people leave a DNF on a cache just because it was raining too hard to leave the car. These logs are USELESS! Leave a note! not a DNF!

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You should log them if you've started the search and come up empty. At what point you consider the search started is up to you.

 

I don't understand the "you should" language here. This isn't even something that's in the guidelines (the bit about "once you've started") and seems much more open to individual playstyle than many other things discussed on these boards. I resent being told how to play in a game that is so open to how individuals play. Even though I'm a strong advocate of posting DNFs (and understand more and more the importance/courtesy involved in doing so), I wouldn't dream of dictating to others that once the search has been started and the cache is not found, a DNF is required and then qualify the statement with an ambiguous caveat that really doesn't change anything about the imperative nature of the original statement.

 

For instance, I will not log a DNF if I feel like the search I gave the area didn't live up to a certain threshold (influenced by many things but mostly just a gut feeling that I didn't search well enough). Now (having learned a lot from these forums and even this thread), I'll certainly log a note (still a log just of a different type) if that threshold isn't reached but not a DNF. That feels right to me and people will see my note in the log and take the appropriate information away from it. Bottom line is that it's a way to play that feels right to me. I'll gladly post a DNF if I feel like I COMPLETED my search (not began it) and did not find it.

 

That being said I freely admit that I may have not read enough into the second part of your statement about considering the search started as far as giving individuals the latitude to play the game in their own manner yet in a respectful and considerate way. I have a lot of respect for your guidance in the forums and don't want this post taking issue with the tone of one to be a reflection on the many many helpful, quality posts I've seen in the short time that I've been following these forums.

 

Edit: compulsive parentheses closing

Edited by mrbort
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I log all DNF's because it alerts the cache owner that it MAY have been muggled. I mind the majority of caches that I hunt for but I do realize that some of them just stumped me.

 

Also, as a cache owner, a DNF is like a "prize" meaning that you gave someone a challenge. I especially like a DNF from someone in my area with 1000+ finds. They're pro's at the hunt and sometimes will not even use a geep withing 100' of a cache because they already know where you hide it from what's available! Log your DNF's....it's the right thing to do.

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If I search long enough to accept a smiley for a find on a cache then it only makes sense that I should log a DNF if I search for the same length of time and strike out. Anything less seems to be a silly double standard. Basically if I have to come up with an excuse for not finding the cache then it's obvious I'm trying to hide a DNF and I need to log it as such.

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If I look but give up because of muggles, ran out of daylight, etc. It's a note.

If I look and can't find it having exausted all my great ideas on where it could be. I'll log a DNF.

 

If I hit "goto" and never make it to the cache site to look for the cache. That's not even a note unless the story on why is interesting in some way.

 

I"m typically now a week or two behind on logging caches. It's easier to lose track of DNF's than Finds (you can see your buddy's find logs in a nice list but not DNF's) so a few do get lost in the cracks.

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Personally I am getting really tired of seeing DNFs on caches where the searcher just got tired and gave up. IF YOU DON'T GET TO GROUND ZERO OR DON'T LOOK THEN DON'T DNF! If you are the owner of the cache and you see DNFs it is to alert you that there is a problem. If cachers are logging DNFs without actually getting to the cache site then the owner could be spending a lot of time running out to check on caches that are perfectly fine.

 

From what I am seeing here is that if some of you "hit goto" and get to the parking area and then decide to not even get out of the dang car then you DNF the cache because you already "started the search" what a load of crap!

 

If you don't look for the cache and just feel you HAVE to leave a log then leave a note! Leaving a DNF on a cache that you didn't even look for is just plain rude to the person that hid the cache and is responsible to maintain it. I've seen people leave a DNF on a cache just because it was raining too hard to leave the car. These logs are USELESS! Leave a note! not a DNF!

DNF still stands for "Did Not Find" - right??

 

I am having trouble finding the right verbage for a fit to DNF for not trying real hard.

 

I own well over 100 active caches as does briansnat - DNF is not soley to alert me to potential problems - it tells me somebody set out to find my cache and for some reason or another Did Not Find it. Just a story - If I as an owner read the story and decide there is a concern - I can then decide to go check. I do not look at the existence of DNF logs as a reason to jump out of my chair and run off to check on the well being of the cache. It is the content of those logs that brings about a check. I still love reading the stories. Even if they were "notes" - I might still decide to go check based on the content.

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...I am having trouble finding the right verbage for a fit to DNF for not trying real hard....

 

It's a perspective question. What should DNF mean? In my view it means that the owner hid better than my ablity to search, or the cache just isn't there to be found. If everone logged this way you can use the DNF as feedback to your rating and to help determine if the cache is MIA to a fairly high level of consistancy.

 

When you expand DNF to cover "Hit goto didn't get there to look" the feedback you get out of a DNF log isn't as useful. In the example the poster used where the finder never got out of the car, the DNF doesn't tell you anything useful for knowing your difficulty rating is accuarate or if the cache may be MIA. That's different than a good story about why you never got to the cache. A story can be contained in a note.

 

In my example of a note where I hadn't yet searched everwhere also relates to the feedback. If the cache would have been in the second place I looked but I was unable to look in that second place for any reason. It's not really a question of the cache difficulty but perhaps more a testamenet to hunger pangs and a nearby Olive Garden.

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....

In my example of a note where I hadn't yet searched everwhere also relates to the feedback. If the cache would have been in the second place I looked but I was unable to look in that second place for any reason. It's not really a question of the cache difficulty but perhaps more a testamenet to hunger pangs and a nearby Olive Garden.

True enough - it is somewhat perspective - but even a DNF that says - "looked for 5 minutes before the smell of pasta at the Olive Garden across the street got to me" is valuable feedback - it tells the next few finder that it is likely that they will need to spend more than 5 minutes and they should come only on a full stomach. :anibad:

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Hey all! Long time reader, first time stander-upper.

 

I log all my DNF's that I have spent a reasonable amount of time searching for. I look at it as a congratulations to the owner on a job well done. Though I always explain why I felt I didn't find it - i.e. light was fading, muggles in area, really good hide... so there's no concern on the part of the cache owner that something is amiss. Being relatively new to the game I don't log it as an indicator to the owner that something is wrong. If I feel that way, I'll just send the owner an e-mail.

 

I do have an issue when I go to look for a difficulty 4.5 nano and see that 100 people have had no problems at all finding that cache - I expect to see some DNFs on difficult hides and wonder, when I've been searching for an hour, how come everyone else was able to find it so easily. As a cache owner I think I would rather see people being challenged by a difficult hide that I've put a lot of effort into. And as a cache owner I'd like to know if 5 people in a day looked for my cache, but if they didn't find it, and nobody logged anything, you'd never know anything was up.

 

But in the end it's up to all of us to play how we see fit.

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If i look for it I log a DNF.

 

If i show up and look for 30 seconds and rain comes or a tornado blows a cow by me and I have to call off the hunt i probably wouldn't.

 

I log the DNF when I feel that I searched well and didn't find it. Sometimes I log them even if I don't. Hmmm. Maybe I just log them whenever I don't find it. The ones we have found have all been rather easy- so I don't get that a lot.

 

I like creating caches that get DNFs. I know people don't log them. I hear "I have been to your cache 3 times at widget park and can't find it!" Hey- you didn't log a DNF! :anibad:

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It's a perspective question. What should DNF mean? In my view it means that the owner hid better than my ablity to search, or the cache just isn't there to be found.

If I pull into the parking lot and am making my way to the cache and my wife calls and tells me I need to do something, and I don't ever get to search, I'll log a note.

 

What about if you go to search for a cache and a river has flooded the area and you can't get to it? I saw the cache (noted that in my log) but couldn't get to it because of high water.

 

My first trip I logged a DNF. I went back a week later, but the river was still high so I wrote a note the second time.

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If i look for it I log a DNF.

 

If i show up and look for 30 seconds and rain comes or a tornado blows a cow by me and I have to call off the hunt i probably wouldn't.

 

I log the DNF when I feel that I searched well and didn't find it. Sometimes I log them even if I don't. Hmmm. Maybe I just log them whenever I don't find it. The ones we have found have all been rather easy- so I don't get that a lot.

 

I like creating caches that get DNFs. I know people don't log them. I hear "I have been to your cache 3 times at widget park and can't find it!" Hey- you didn't log a DNF! :anibad:

 

That's pretty much my philosophy too.

I get a log saying someone found my cache the third try, when I have never gotten any DNFs from them!

Go figure! :)

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I don't understand the "you should" language here. This isn't even something that's in the guidelines (the bit about "once you've started") and seems much more open to individual playstyle than many other things discussed on these boards. I resent being told how to play in a game that is so open to how individuals play. Even though I'm a strong advocate of posting DNFs (and understand more and more the importance/courtesy involved in doing so), I wouldn't dream of dictating to others that once the search has been started and the cache is not found, a DNF is required and then qualify the statement with an ambiguous caveat that really doesn't change anything about the imperative nature of the original statement.

 

You should lighten up. :anibad:

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If I can't find it, then it is a DNF and I log it. Even if I have been back several times to try and find it and still turn up nothing. I am proud of my DNFs, dont know why others are not. It just means that either the hide is really good, it is missing, or I am just an idiot. Either way, it makes it fun.

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You should lighten up. :)

 

MORE of the "should" language???? I should do this, I should do that... Stop trying to control my life!

 

Seriously though, I should not have taken it so badly. I guess it was after a long day and I was feeling overly sensitive... Apologies :anibad:

 

Edit: a little humor :)

Edited by mrbort
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If I can't find it, then it is a DNF and I log it. Even if I have been back several times to try and find it and still turn up nothing. I am proud of my DNFs, dont know why others are not. It just means that either the hide is really good, it is missing, or I am just an idiot. Either way, it makes it fun.

 

YES. Oddly enough, I am also generally proud of my DNF's. They usually make much better stories than the TFTC logs. Oye... the stories I could tell... and usually do on the log page. I've actually wondered if it's annoying that I write full out novels about what I went through. I think it's funny most of the time- it's about the experience, not the little piece of paper. I have found some CO's get annoyed and will send you an automatic hint even though you didn't ask for it. I've now found it's helpful to include the reason I DNF, and as stated, its "the hide is really good, it is missing, or I am just an idiot."

 

The only time I don't log them is when I didn't really search for some reason.... someone came, I couldn't get to GZ, left my GPS in the car, etc.

 

Actually, on my last DNF I left out a lot of the bad parts of the story because I didn't want to turn more people off to the cache. It's only had 4 finds in a year. So I guess that's the flip side to the coin. Should I have given the R rated (mostly for language) or PG rated version of events?

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I'm new to this, and just wondering why geocaches tend to have such a high proportion of "Find it" logs. Some caches have no DNFs logged at all, yet I could not find them after a bunch of searching. Sure, I'm a noob, but there must've been others who attempted the search and had to give up. So is it because people don't tend to log DNFs, or is it an unsubtle hint that I must really work on my geocaching skills? What percentage of your DNFs do you log?

I am new to this also. If I am with someone who decides after 10 minutes they are ready to move on, I will not log a DNF. I, myself, will stay for over 30 - 40 minutes +; if I cannot find the cache, I will record a DNF. Also, if there is a natural impediment - water due to rain, snow, etc. I will not log a DNF - I will go back after a while and try again. I have also emailed the cacher for another clue if I cannot find it.

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Oh yes, DNF logs are often far more entertaining to read than "Quick grab on my way to somewhere else."

 

I tend to write a little paragraph about my adventure, whether it results in a find or not. Today I had my second DNF on the same dratted micro in the dratted woods. I left out the part I was going to write about how much fun I was having crawling through the poison ivy and stumbling into trees sprouting 2 inch armor-piercing thorns and having trouble seeing through the thick clouds of bat-sized mosquitoes swirling about my head.

 

I figured the sarcasm would be lost, especially since the previous finder apparently sauntered out on his lunch break wearing dress slacks and sipping a martini and casually snagged the cache whilst stifling a yawn. I kept it short and sweet, and just wrote, "I'm giving up on this one. Probably a raccoon ate it."

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I subscribe to the Log it you hunted it. It helps the CO know whats going on with their cache. Even the DNFs are fund to read.

 

Knight2000 mentioned he'd log one if he hunted for 30 seconds and a storm blew up he'd log a DNF. I recently had that very thing happen. While looking for the final stage of a multi I started hearing thunder. I was a 1/2 mile from the trail head, alone and unprepared for any rain. I started back to the Geotruck and logged a DNF that night.

 

Another reason to log DNF's is to help you remember those caches you hunted and didn't find. When you get better you may want to revisit those missed hunts.

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I subscribe to the Log it you hunted it. It helps the CO know whats going on with their cache. Even the DNFs are fund to read.

 

Knight2000 mentioned he'd log one if he hunted for 30 seconds and a storm blew up he'd log a DNF. I recently had that very thing happen. While looking for the final stage of a multi I started hearing thunder. I was a 1/2 mile from the trail head, alone and unprepared for any rain. I started back to the Geotruck and logged a DNF that night.

 

Another reason to log DNF's is to help you remember those caches you hunted and didn't find. When you get better you may want to revisit those missed hunts.

 

DNFs are for notifying the owner of the cache that there may be a problem because you looked and looked and couldn't find their cache, and that they may need to go check on their cache.

 

Honestly you logged a DNF on someones cache because of RAIN!!!!!! :anibad: You didn't even look for it, how lame!!!! Now the poor cache owner is wondering if something is wrong with their cache because you didn't want to get wet! WEAK!!!!

 

If you absolutely had to log something in this case it should have been a note stating " I was a wiener and didn't want to get wet" not a DNF.

 

DNFs aren't to "help you remember those caches you hunted and didn't find" they are meant to tell the owner "you need to check your cache"

 

Another problem is for those that use PDA's for paperless caching and have their recent logs to download to a max of 3 or 4 to save memory then you aren't getting anything usefull from a bunch of DNFs from guys that just decided to give up before they ever looked. How rude to the others that come behind you.

 

IF YOU LOOKED AND LOOKED AND LOOOKED AND DIDN'T FIND THEN DNF

IF YOU GAVE UP BECAUSE THE WIFE CALLED, IT RAINED, ETC. LEAVE A NOTE IF ANYTHING!

Edited by nwjeeper
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I subscribe to the Log it you hunted it. It helps the CO know whats going on with their cache. Even the DNFs are fund to read.

 

Knight2000 mentioned he'd log one if he hunted for 30 seconds and a storm blew up he'd log a DNF. I recently had that very thing happen. While looking for the final stage of a multi I started hearing thunder. I was a 1/2 mile from the trail head, alone and unprepared for any rain. I started back to the Geotruck and logged a DNF that night.

 

Another reason to log DNF's is to help you remember those caches you hunted and didn't find. When you get better you may want to revisit those missed hunts.

 

DNFs are for notifying the owner of the cache that there may be a problem because you looked and looked and couldn't find their cache, and that they may need to go check on their cache.

 

Honestly you logged a DNF on someones cache because of RAIN!!!!!! :anibad: You didn't even look for it, how lame!!!! Now the poor cache owner is wondering if something is wrong with their cache because you didn't want to get wet! WEAK!!!!

 

If you absolutely had to log something in this case it should have been a note stating " I was a wiener and didn't want to get wet" not a DNF.

 

DNFs aren't to "help you remember those caches you hunted and didn't find" they are meant to tell the owner "you need to check your cache"

 

Another problem is for those that use PDA's for paperless caching and have their recent logs to download to a max of 3 or 4 to save memory then you aren't getting anything usefull from a bunch of DNFs from guys that just decided to give up before they ever looked. How rude to the others that come behind you.

 

IF YOU LOOKED AND LOOKED AND LOOOKED AND DIDN'T FIND THEN DNF

IF YOU GAVE UP BECAUSE THE WIFE CALLED, IT RAINED, ETC. LEAVE A NOTE IF ANYTHING!

Again - see post #27 above.........

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Wow - Weak and Weenie in the same post. . .

 

You been talking to my wife??

 

Seriously though. Logging DNF's isn't an ALERT to the CO that maintenance is needed.

 

I walked away from the cache in question due to the approaching storm (severe weather threat in my area that day, widow makers hanging in the trees from winter ice storms, hung trees from Ike last year). If getting out of a dangerous situation and not wanting to get doused when inappropriately clothed makes me a weak weenie - so be it.

 

(As a side note - The log in question for me was posted as a 'note' not a DNF - I had it confused with another cache that day - but I still stand my my opinion of the DNF feature of the site).

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DNFs are for notifying the owner of the cache that there may be a problem because you looked and looked and couldn't find their cache, and that they may need to go check on their cache.

 

A DNF is not meant to notify the owner of anything other than the fact that you didn't find his cache. It's simply one of the choices available to log the result of your cache hunt. Did you find it or not? If no, then it's a DNF. The cache owner will use the information you provided in concert with logs from other geocachers to make a judgment about the status of his cache. If you mention that you were turned back by weather, "muggles", a rattlesnake on the cache, or a tired 4 year old the owner will consider that.

Edited by briansnat
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It's a perspective question. What should DNF mean? In my view it means that the owner hid better than my ablity to search, or the cache just isn't there to be found.

If I pull into the parking lot and am making my way to the cache and my wife calls and tells me I need to do something, and I don't ever get to search, I'll log a note.

 

What about if you go to search for a cache and a river has flooded the area and you can't get to it? I saw the cache (noted that in my log) but couldn't get to it because of high water.

 

My first trip I logged a DNF. I went back a week later, but the river was still high so I wrote a note the second time.

 

Your example and StarBrand's above are both good logs. DNF or Note the information needed by finders and the owner is all there. Personally I prefer the note, but it's the info in the log that makes the log valueble. Both of you detailed the info.

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