Delorme PN-40 $269

[+Team CowboyPapa]

wanted to see what it was all about with that H-Res City imagery and how it was used to approach a cache.

 

are you aware of a thread or link to a www site that has some screen shots to get an idea of what this is like?

 

i realize that an in person demo would be better, but the above would be interesting.

 

thanks

Roger that, Amazon.com and scroll down:

http://www.amazon.com/Delorme-AE-7985-201-...8014&sr=8-1

From DeLorme site, click here and then some more:

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtd...28705§ion=10463

[+embra]

I think the best collection of sample screen shots is on the wiki. There you can see where zoom levels start to pixellate or are too zoomed out as to be useful, as well as where the imagery looks good.

 

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/Map+Screenshots

 

Delorme also has a link to a demo on the right side of their PN-40 product page.

[ubievol]

Roger that, Amazon.com and scroll down:

http://www.amazon.com/Delorme-AE-7985-201-...8014&sr=8-1

From DeLorme site, click here and then some more:

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtd...28705§ion=10463

 

DeLorme link didn't work, but there are a lot of good shots and other info on Amazon. which turns out to be good news, bad news from my standpoint.

 

the good news is to hear that the PN-40 has two critical features that i covet: sensitivity and speed.

 

more good news is that there are included pre-cut maps (somehow i missed this) that reportedly have great detail. and if one wants to go beyond there are more options for 1:24k topo, aerial, etc.

 

the bad news is that two engineers reviewed the unit on amazon, and report a steep learning curve with the software and some related issues.

 

i'll probably hold for a while to see how cache register and topo 8 play out. and to see the PN-30.

 

now, off to the wiki i go ...

[+Team CowboyPapa]

..... report a steep learning curve with the software and some related issues.

 

i'll probably hold for a while to see how cache register and topo 8 play out. and to see the PN-30.

 

now, off to the wiki i go ...

Yes, and when you go to the Wiki, you will see that the steep learning curve is largely irrelevant.

 

1. Did the reviewer's do a side-by-side, step-by-step process on a competitive model with comparative features?

2. Was the competitive model equally new to them at the time so that the playing field was level?

3. Is the feature that they were trying to implement even possible on another, competitive model?

4. Did the reviewers even look at the Wiki, which may not have been available at the time?

 

Yes, it took me some effort the first time to edit a recorded track by:

1. Downloading it from my PN-40 to Topo 7 on my PC,

2. Splitting the track into two pieces at a place where I made a wrong turn,

3. Deleting out the points of the wrong turn and doubling back,

4. Using the "Line" tool to "click" in a few new point to make the intervening section smooth,

5. Joining the three pieces, two old and the newly sketched, into one continuous track.

 

However, if that cannot be accomplished with another, competitive model, then remarking on it as having a steep learning curve is totally useless and non-informative.

 

OTOH, if you have no interest in these other features, is their degree of complexity of interest to you?

Edited May 18, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+IBcrashen]

PN-40 is $250 today on Amazon

[+COSMOS1]

..... report a steep learning curve with the software and some related issues.

 

i'll probably hold for a while to see how cache register and topo 8 play out. and to see the PN-30.

 

now, off to the wiki i go ...

Yes, and when you go to the Wiki, you will see that the steep learning curve is largely irrelevant.

 

1. Did the reviewer's do a side-by-side, step-by-step process on a competitive model with comparative features?

2. Was the competitive model equally new to them at the time so that the playing field was level?

3. Is the feature that they were trying to implement even possible on another, competitive model?

4. Did the reviewers even look at the Wiki, which may not have been available at the time?

 

Yes, it took me some effort the first time to edit a recorded track by:

1. Downloading it from my PN-40 to Topo 7 on my PC,

2. Splitting the track into two pieces at a place where I made a wrong turn,

3. Deleting out the points of the wrong turn and doubling back,

4. Using the "Line" tool to "click" in a few new point to make the intervening section smooth,

5. Joining the three pieces, two old and the newly sketched, into one continuous track.

 

However, if that cannot be accomplished with another, competitive model, then remarking on it as having a steep learning curve is totally useless and non-informative.

 

OTOH, if you have no interest in these other features, is their degree of complexity of interest to you?

 

I think these are all excellent points.

 

It could be possible that if two engineers reported a steep learning curve that a new user may also.

Heck, I hardly ever open a manual and I want to be able to figure out every device I buy, instantly.

 

I guess there won't be one device that everyone will be happy with. I'm just glad we get to play with them all!

[+The Yinnies]

I just ordered my new one from Delorme Friday and now Amazon has a great deal. I am out $50 because I also ordered the car kit. Do you think I could return it and buy one from Amazon? Which firmware should I load and why is the price dropping so much when it will only cost $9.95 for the Topo 8?

Thanks

[+Pax42]

I just ordered my new one from Delorme Friday and now Amazon has a great deal. I am out $50 because I also ordered the car kit. Do you think I could return it and buy one from Amazon? Which firmware should I load and why is the price dropping so much when it will only cost $9.95 for the Topo 8?

Thanks

 

As someone else pointed out, I think they're just trying to clear out all the stock with old firmware and Topo 7. It's great for consumers because updating the firmware one's self is a rather simple task and paying the S&H cost for Topo 8 definately isn't a big deal considering the $100 plus savings.

 

Load the latest RTM firmware found at the Delorme Website (ver. 2.5)

Edited May 19, 2009 by Pax42

[+snow_rules]

I would load with the latest firmware once you get the unit. That firmware enables the send to GPS feature to work. The T8 is a free upgrade since it was just released. The $9.95 is just for shipping and handling. The price of T8 would still be $99.95 if purchased by itself or if you are an existing T7 user that was purchased longer the 6 months ago it is going for $49.95.

[+TexasGringo]

<steep learning curve>

 

The very first Review was by some guy that says he is an Electrical Engineer....So What, that doesn't mean he is an expert at anything...or knows anything beyond a 9 volt battery.

 

I also find it hard to believe that an Electrical engineer...someone who is used to operating/using electronic equipment...had such a hard time.

 

I have the 60CSX and it has all kinds of stuff in it...stuff I never use...but if I did have to learn all that stuff, it would be a steep learning curve for me too...The first few caches I did, I felt like throwing the GPS in the lake...but as time went on, I got used to it.

 

But just like anything else...you read the manual and try things...pretty soon you are an expert with it.

[+COSMOS1]

<steep learning curve>

 

The very first Review was by some guy that says he is an Electrical Engineer....So What, that doesn't mean he is an expert at anything...or knows anything beyond a 9 volt battery.

 

I also find it hard to believe that an Electrical engineer...someone who is used to operating/using electronic equipment...had such a hard time.

 

I have the 60CSX and it has all kinds of stuff in it...stuff I never use...but if I did have to learn all that stuff, it would be a steep learning curve for me too...The first few caches I did, I felt like throwing the GPS in the lake...but as time went on, I got used to it.

 

But just like anything else...you read the manual and try things...pretty soon you are an expert with it.

 

I agree. I run a large network of servers, workstations and network gear at work-yet it takes me hours to figure some of this stuff out. Go figure.

[+COSMOS1]

<steep learning curve>

 

The very first Review was by some guy that says he is an Electrical Engineer....So What, that doesn't mean he is an expert at anything...or knows anything beyond a 9 volt battery.

 

I also find it hard to believe that an Electrical engineer...someone who is used to operating/using electronic equipment...had such a hard time.

 

I have the 60CSX and it has all kinds of stuff in it...stuff I never use...but if I did have to learn all that stuff, it would be a steep learning curve for me too...The first few caches I did, I felt like throwing the GPS in the lake...but as time went on, I got used to it.

 

But just like anything else...you read the manual and try things...pretty soon you are an expert with it.

 

I agree. I run a large network of servers, workstations and network gear at work-yet it takes me hours to figure some of this stuff out. Go figure.

[+RRLover]

<steep learning curve>

 

The very first Review was by some guy that says he is an Electrical Engineer....So What, that doesn't mean he is an expert at anything...or knows anything beyond a 9 volt battery.

 

I also find it hard to believe that an Electrical engineer...someone who is used to operating/using electronic equipment...had such a hard time.

 

I have the 60CSX and it has all kinds of stuff in it...stuff I never use...but if I did have to learn all that stuff, it would be a steep learning curve for me too...The first few caches I did, I felt like throwing the GPS in the lake...but as time went on, I got used to it.

 

But just like anything else...you read the manual and try things...pretty soon you are an expert with it.

 

I agree. I run a large network of servers, workstations and network gear at work-yet it takes me hours to figure some of this stuff out. Go figure.

 

If you have even the most rudimentary knowledge, gleened from playing with any type of CAD application, then Topo 7/8 will be a piece of cake! Really this learning curve is quite overblown.

Some people want to be spoon fed; there are some complexities, but that goes hand in hand with

the level of ability to do more. If ya want easy, git sompin' dat does nothin'!

 

Norm

[+peterb12]

I just got my PN-40 last night. I can assure you the "steep learning curve" comments are not at all overblown.

 

First off, some disclaimers: I haven't used the unit in the field yet. And, I am using Topo 7 at this point, rather than Topo 8 because that's what I have. I'm a software developer with about 20 years of experience across numerous specialties, and have been a hobbyist computer user since the early 1980s.

 

It seems to me likely that the unit itself is about as easy to use as other units, excepting maybe the iPhone 3G, which is a different sort of thing.

 

In terms of basic functionality/mapping, the unit came with disks of "pre-cut" topo maps for various regions at 1:100. Loading those was perfectly simple, and should be easy for anyone.

 

Then there's Topo 7.

 

While Topo 7 is not, in fact, the worst designed piece of software I've ever used, it certainly comes close. The user interface of the thing is so terrible that you have to wonder if it was intentionally designed that way as some sort of sophisticated joke. Much of the UI is "implicit", in the sense that you use various gestures to navigate around the map and change zoom level, and it's easy - especially at first - to inadvertently change your location or zoom level without even understanding how you did it. The application is full of what I'll call "post-modal" dialog boxes. So you click some box or make some choice, and then, a few seconds later, after you're trying to do something else, a dialog box or some other interrupt will appear related to the thing you did about 5 seconds ago.

 

The best example of this is in the "integrated" feature that lets you buy maps online. "Integrated", in this context, means "not really all that well integrated". In order to buy color aerial, USGS, and satellite maps of a single region, here's what I had to do:

 

(1) Find the area I'm looking for in 'NavLink' mode.

(2) Click the grids I want to buy for.

(3) Realize that clicking the grid doesn't do I what I want. Find the "Select/Edit" button, which is mysteriously off to the left somewhere.

(4) Click the grids I want.

(5) Pull the dropdown to "Color aerial".

(6) Click "Add to selection"

(7) Pull the dropdown to "USGS"

(8) GET INTERRUPTED because 5 seconds later an IE window opens telling me "OK, sir, I added those maps. Could you name them?" No indication of what the name means.

(9) Type "Townname." Click submit. Window goes away.

(10) Move mouse back to add things to my selection

(11) Get interrupted AGAIN for some confirmation dialog.

(12) Click "Add to selection" to add the USGS maps.

(13) Repeat steps 8 through 12 once for each map type I wanted to add.

(14) Except now I can't call the next group of maps "Townname", so I call them "Townname-1", even though conceptually I wanted all these maps to be part of a single order. Maybe there's a way to do that. It's not obvious.

(15) Eventually, I actually get to purchase my maps. That took about another 4 clicks.

(16) Then another 5 clicks to download (find download tab, click checkbox next to each map, then download).

(17) Get interrupted by the download window.

(18) In case I didn't make this clear above, any time you're doing anything with NavLink, there's a delay of a few seconds because presumably you're talking to a remote server somewhere.

 

So to do the workflow "buy 4 types of maps for a set of regions," I would estimate that I had to use about 48 separate mouse gestures, and I'm being generous and not counting the "purely local" ones, like selecting the quads that I wanted.

 

Adding the maps to the PN-40 is not quite as horrific as using NavLink, but it's not a bright shining star, either. My favorite part of that moment is when you enter the transfer UI and after you try to begin a transfer a dialog box appears with an entire paragraph of text suggesting that you might want to change the GPS into one of two other modes which might be faster to use. If you change the GPS into those other modes at that moment, Topo 7 will lock up for 10 seconds while the USB bus is reconfigured. But if you try to put the GPS into that mode before beginning the transfer, the transfer UI won't discover it (or at least, it didn't when I tried it).

 

You could argue that this isn't "hard." It's not as if it's rocket science. But I think when people say that Topo 7 has a "steep learning curve" what they are really trying to say is this is a really incredibly annoying program to use. Put another way: if the amazon.com web site was as annoying to use as Topo 7, they would never sell any products ever. The only reason people are putting up with Topo 7 is because it's offering something hard to get otherwise.

 

Now, maybe it's possible that all of these problems are magically fixed in Topo 8. I'd love to hear from someone who has used Topo 8 to comment on this. But the software developer in me is asking the question "If they couldn't get this right in the first seven versions, why do you think they'll get it right in the eighth?"

Edited May 21, 2009 by peterb12

[+Rockin Roddy]

I just got my PN-40 last night. I can assure you the "steep learning curve" comments are not at all overblown.

 

First off, some disclaimers: I haven't used the unit in the field yet. And, I am using Topo 7 at this point, rather than Topo 8 because that's what I have. I'm a software developer with about 20 years of experience across numerous specialties, and have been a hobbyist computer user since the early 1980s.

 

It seems to me likely that the unit itself is about as easy to use as other units, excepting maybe the iPhone 3G, which is a different sort of thing.

 

In terms of basic functionality/mapping, the unit came with disks of "pre-cut" topo maps for various regions at 1:100. Loading those was perfectly simple, and should be easy for anyone.

 

Then there's Topo 7.

 

While Topo 7 is not, in fact, the worst designed piece of software I've ever used, it certainly comes close. The user interface of the thing is so terrible that you have to wonder if it was intentionally designed that way as some sort of sophisticated joke. Much of the UI is "implicit", in the sense that you use various gestures to navigate around the map and change zoom level, and it's easy - especially at first - to inadvertently change your location or zoom level without even understanding how you did it. The application is full of what I'll call "post-modal" dialog boxes. So you click some box or make some choice, and then, a few seconds later, after you're trying to do something else, a dialog box or some other interrupt will appear related to the thing you did about 5 seconds ago.

 

The best example of this is in the "integrated" feature that lets you buy maps online. "Integrated", in this context, means "not really all that well integrated". In order to buy color aerial, USGS, and satellite maps of a single region, here's what I had to do:

 

(1) Find the area I'm looking for in 'NavLink' mode.

(2) Click the grids I want to buy for.

(3) Realize that clicking the grid doesn't do I what I want. Find the "Select/Edit" button, which is mysteriously off to the left somewhere.

(4) Click the grids I want.

(5) Pull the dropdown to "Color aerial".

(6) Click "Add to selection"

(7) Pull the dropdown to "USGS"

(8) GET INTERRUPTED because 5 seconds later an IE window opens telling me "OK, sir, I added those maps. Could you name them?" No indication of what the name means.

(9) Type "Townname." Click submit. Window goes away.

(10) Move mouse back to add things to my selection

(11) Get interrupted AGAIN for some confirmation dialog.

(12) Click "Add to selection" to add the USGS maps.

(13) Repeat steps 8 through 12 once for each map type I wanted to add.

(14) Except now I can't call the next group of maps "Townname", so I call them "Townname-1", even though conceptually I wanted all these maps to be part of a single order. Maybe there's a way to do that. It's not obvious.

(15) Eventually, I actually get to purchase my maps. That took about another 4 clicks.

(16) Then another 5 clicks to download (find download tab, click checkbox next to each map, then download).

(17) Get interrupted by the download window.

(18) In case I didn't make this clear above, any time you're doing anything with NavLink, there's a delay of a few seconds because presumably you're talking to a remote server somewhere.

 

So to do the workflow "buy 4 types of maps for a set of regions," I would estimate that I had to use about 48 separate mouse gestures, and I'm being generous and not counting the "purely local" ones, like selecting the quads that I wanted.

 

Adding the maps to the PN-40 is not quite as horrific as using NavLink, but it's not a bright shining star, either. My favorite part of that moment when you enter the transfer UI and after you try to begin a transfer a dialog box appears with an entire paragraph of text suggesting that you might want to change the GPS into one of two other modes which might be faster to use. If you change the GPS into those other modes at that moment, Topo 7 will lock up for 10 seconds while the USB bus is reconfigured. But if you try to put the GPS into that mode before beginning the transfer, the transfer UI won't discover it (or at least, it didn't when I tried it).

 

Now, you could argue that this isn't "hard." It's not as if it's rocket science. But I think when people say that Topo 7 has a "steep learning curve" what they are really trying to say is this is a really incredibly annoying program to use. Put another way: if the amazon.com web site was as annoying to use as Topo 7, they would never sell any products ever. The only reason people are putting up with Topo 7 is because it's offering something hard to get otherwise.

 

Now, maybe it's possible that all of these problems are magically fixed in Topo 8. I'd love to hear from someone who has used Topo 8 to comment on this. But the software developer in me is asking the question "If they couldn't get this right in the first seven versions, why do you think they'll get it right in the eighth?"

 

If you mean it's hard because you had to click the mouse numerous times, I guess I can agree....but I find it very easy to do (and I am NOT in the least qualified like you). I appreciate your input, but find that it's probably null and void due to the release of TOPO 8 which (unlike the earlier versions, I would guess) is geared more toward the caching aspect of GPS usage?

 

A few tips for those who haven't figured it out yet, from someone who isn't very techy...you can click and highlight more than one grid at a time (less clicking already??), adding the name means you'll be able to find your selection later (seems fairly straight forward to me, ymmv), not sure what "move mouse back to add to my selection" is all about, maybe you could fill us in a bit more on that one? Oh, and no, you can't use the same name since this would be confusing, kind of like George Foreman naming all his kids George! Now, as a qualifier for my comments, I downloaded ALL of Michigan in color aerial, it took me a few days and some tedious clicking to do this, but had little complaint about it at all and am now capable of adding ANY section of Michigan I want to my GPS...with just a few more clicks of that pesky mouse...a nice reward for all my troubles!!

 

If clicking the mouse is hard for you to do, this isn't for you! Fortunately, I hear TOPO 8 is more streamlined so less of that truly difficult mouse clicking! Maybe there's a company who has maps which load simply by thinking (or willing) it to happen?

 

eta: OUCH, all the clicking of the keys to type out that comment was surely a difficult task, I may not ever add another post due to all the work?

 

eta: Oh, and if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm merely yanking your chain here, no harm, no foul?

Edited May 21, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+COSMOS1]

Peterb12;

 

Thanks for the detailed information. I would guess that your description of "difficulty" is in the fact that the software isn't laid out in any usual order. I found the same to be true. I think its a much better product than what Garmin has although it takes some time to learn.

[+peterb12]

Rocky, the problem isn't that there are a lot of mouse gestures to do a given task. It's that there are too many for any given task, and they aren't intuitive. That's bad design, and there are no two ways about it. Users know this because we have used other pieces of software that are better designed, that allow us to accomplish more with less effort.

 

Analogies are dangerous, but if someone designed a car where in order to turn on the engine you needed to turn the radio on, then off, then on again, then rub your head, then speak the words "Tigers are great!!" three times, then press the "on" button down halfway, then let it go, then press it down all the way, and I complained about it, I could find an Internet forum where someone was saying "Oh, gosh, stop your complaining. It's not like saying 'Tigers are great!' a few times is all that hard. And the car runs like a dream!"

 

To say that I'm complaining about "clicking the mouse" is to trivialize the problem. I think I gave a pretty detailed description of the workflow, and it should be obvious to anyone that that workflow is clumsy. That's the problem.

[+Raider Rodney]

The Topo software is very awkward at first but after you use it for a bit it's not THAT bad. If I had posted on the first day I installed it on my compy I'm sure my remark would be similar lol

[ubievol]

peterb i hope that you will follow up with your experience with topo 8. hopefully the slope won't be as steep.

 

RR when you say that it took you several days to do the state of Michigan, do you mean 3 or 4 8 hour days i.e. 24-32 hours total, or an hour here and there over several days i.e. 5-6 hours or so?

 

and to the "other" RR, how are things way up there in Burnsville?

Edited May 21, 2009 by ubievol

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

OT: Hey, nice to see other folks in the neighborhood here! What a great place we live in for geocaching and exploring.

[MtnHermit]

I just got my PN-40 last night. I can assure you the "steep learning curve" comments are not at all overblown.

 

First off, some disclaimers: I haven't used the unit in the field yet. And, I am using Topo 7 at this point, rather than Topo 8 because that's what I have. I'm a software developer with about 20 years of experience across numerous specialties, and have been a hobbyist computer user since the early 1980s.

 

It seems to me likely that the unit itself is about as easy to use as other units, excepting maybe the iPhone 3G, which is a different sort of thing.

 

In terms of basic functionality/mapping, the unit came with disks of "pre-cut" topo maps for various regions at 1:100. Loading those was perfectly simple, and should be easy for anyone.

 

Then there's Topo 7.

 

While Topo 7 is not, in fact, the worst designed piece of software I've ever used, it certainly comes close. The user interface of the thing is so terrible that you have to wonder if it was intentionally designed that way as some sort of sophisticated joke. Much of the UI is "implicit", in the sense that you use various gestures to navigate around the map and change zoom level, and it's easy - especially at first - to inadvertently change your location or zoom level without even understanding how you did it. The application is full of what I'll call "post-modal" dialog boxes. So you click some box or make some choice, and then, a few seconds later, after you're trying to do something else, a dialog box or some other interrupt will appear related to the thing you did about 5 seconds ago.

 

The best example of this is in the "integrated" feature that lets you buy maps online. "Integrated", in this context, means "not really all that well integrated". In order to buy color aerial, USGS, and satellite maps of a single region, here's what I had to do:

 

(1) Find the area I'm looking for in 'NavLink' mode.

(2) Click the grids I want to buy for.

(3) Realize that clicking the grid doesn't do I what I want. Find the "Select/Edit" button, which is mysteriously off to the left somewhere.

(4) Click the grids I want.

(5) Pull the dropdown to "Color aerial".

(6) Click "Add to selection"

(7) Pull the dropdown to "USGS"

(8) GET INTERRUPTED because 5 seconds later an IE window opens telling me "OK, sir, I added those maps. Could you name them?" No indication of what the name means.

(9) Type "Townname." Click submit. Window goes away.

(10) Move mouse back to add things to my selection

(11) Get interrupted AGAIN for some confirmation dialog.

(12) Click "Add to selection" to add the USGS maps.

(13) Repeat steps 8 through 12 once for each map type I wanted to add.

(14) Except now I can't call the next group of maps "Townname", so I call them "Townname-1", even though conceptually I wanted all these maps to be part of a single order. Maybe there's a way to do that. It's not obvious.

(15) Eventually, I actually get to purchase my maps. That took about another 4 clicks.

(16) Then another 5 clicks to download (find download tab, click checkbox next to each map, then download).

(17) Get interrupted by the download window.

(18) In case I didn't make this clear above, any time you're doing anything with NavLink, there's a delay of a few seconds because presumably you're talking to a remote server somewhere.

 

So to do the workflow "buy 4 types of maps for a set of regions," I would estimate that I had to use about 48 separate mouse gestures, and I'm being generous and not counting the "purely local" ones, like selecting the quads that I wanted.

 

Adding the maps to the PN-40 is not quite as horrific as using NavLink, but it's not a bright shining star, either. My favorite part of that moment is when you enter the transfer UI and after you try to begin a transfer a dialog box appears with an entire paragraph of text suggesting that you might want to change the GPS into one of two other modes which might be faster to use. If you change the GPS into those other modes at that moment, Topo 7 will lock up for 10 seconds while the USB bus is reconfigured. But if you try to put the GPS into that mode before beginning the transfer, the transfer UI won't discover it (or at least, it didn't when I tried it).

 

You could argue that this isn't "hard." It's not as if it's rocket science. But I think when people say that Topo 7 has a "steep learning curve" what they are really trying to say is this is a really incredibly annoying program to use. Put another way: if the amazon.com web site was as annoying to use as Topo 7, they would never sell any products ever. The only reason people are putting up with Topo 7 is because it's offering something hard to get otherwise.

 

Now, maybe it's possible that all of these problems are magically fixed in Topo 8. I'd love to hear from someone who has used Topo 8 to comment on this. But the software developer in me is asking the question "If they couldn't get this right in the first seven versions, why do you think they'll get it right in the eighth?"

Thank you for putting into words what I've felt for a long time about the Delorme vector Topo software. So while others prefer to bash you for stating the obvious, I applaud you.

 

A couple of years ago I purchased Topo 6, to organize and view the scanned USGS quads (3D Topo Quads). The Topo 6 product was cheap and at 100K resolution was of no interest. While the UI was painful, I could get printed copies of the USGS maps at any scale, so it was worth the pain.

 

Your comment about deliberate software confusion was even present in the scanned topos. I live in Colorado, one of the few pure rectangular states, yet for no apparent reason Delorme chose to divide the state along bizarre county lines vs. a pure grid so as to fit on multiple CDs. Counties tend to divide on ridge lines, the very terrain I want to hike to, so this resulted in missing data or two pieces of paper to include everything.

 

Two years ago I bought my first GPS, it allowed the same quality maps to be internal. I now have the entire state at 24K resolution and view a GPS as much a map viewer as a position indicator. The merger of the two, map and position, is one of those once in a century paradigm shifts. I no longer carry paper maps.

 

I just came back from a 3-day, 28-mile, solo backpack. Several times I got off trail because of deep snow, or the trail disappeared. In every instance I was able to reestablish the trail by seeing my position relative to the trail position on the GPS map and bushwhack back to the trail. I could have never done this with paper maps, perhaps with GPS and paper, but with much more effort.

[+Raider Rodney]

and to the "other" RR, how are things way up there in Burnsville?

 

Wonderful...since we are finally getting some sunshine

 

OT: Hey, nice to see other folks in the neighborhood here! What a great place we live in for geocaching and exploring.

 

Yep, I love it here and I agree...nice to see some local faces

[ubievol]

and to the "other" RR, how are things way up there in Burnsville?

 

Wonderful...since we are finally getting some sunshine

 

OT: Hey, nice to see other folks in the neighborhood here! What a great place we live in for geocaching and exploring.

 

Yep, I love it here and I agree...nice to see some local faces

 

me, three! WNC is wonderful!

 

Burnsville makes me think of the great food at the NuWay Inn. but now i'm really getting OT.

[+Rockin Roddy]

peterb i hope that you will follow up with your experience with topo 8. hopefully the slope won't be as steep.

 

RR when you say that it took you several days to do the state of Michigan, do you mean 3 or 4 8 hour days i.e. 24-32 hours total, or an hour here and there over several days i.e. 5-6 hours or so?

 

and to the "other" RR, how are things way up there in Burnsville?

 

Some times I had enough free time to sit and work on it for a few hours, others I had only limited time. I couldn't say a total hour amount, but more than likely, I'd say about 30 or more hours total. The time consuming part is NOT the clicking though, it's waiting for the downloads to complete which is nothing more than....waiting!

 

Peterb, not really trying to trivialize as much as make the point that some things are a bit repetetive, but well worth the task! Some have made the comment that the free Garmin maps are easy to load and a lot quicker than the TOPO 7, but someone did have to take many many hours and make those maps available. I personally don't mind working a bit to get those GREAT aerials and other available maps, some feel differently!!

 

I'm ordering "8" soon, I too will report my experiences!!

[+Rockin Roddy]

Here's the step-by-step instructions provided by a user frm the DeLorme forums:

 

After much trial and error and hours of stress, I finally figured out how to select and exchange maps with TOPO 7 and the DeLorme PN-40. I then typed up a list of the steps and verified they work. Call it "TOPO 7 - DeLorme PN-40 For Newbies." Here it is:

 

1) Turn on computer and sign on to the computer with Administrative log in.

 

2) Connect GPS to computer with the supplied cable.

 

3) Turn on GPS.

 

4) Open Topo 7 software.

 

5) Select New Project.

 

6) In upper right corner, zoom to 3.

 

7) Use hand tool to pan to area to be selected.

 

8 ) Zoom to 11.

 

9) Click on Options and select type of maps to download.

 

10) Select large grids to map. Click on the Select/edit tool.

 

11) Name the area to be mapped.

 

12) Click Netlink.

 

13) Click the large “Color Aerial Imagery” icon in lower left.

 

14) Select the type of map to download.

 

15) Click the Select/edit tool.

 

16) Select the individual grids to download.

 

17) Click Add to List.

 

18 ) Name the map to download.

 

19) Click Check Out.

 

20) Click Downloads.

 

21) Click Your Downloads.

 

22) Check the box, then click Download selected.

 

23) Click Handheld Export.

 

24) Name the map to send to GPS.

 

25) Click Save.

 

26) Click Exchange.

 

27) Click on the plus symbol in Saved Map Packages and then the map to send. Then select SD card. Make sure the SD card is highlighted in dark blue. The map to send must be highlighted in (very light) gray. Click Send.

 

28 ) Click Done.

 

29) Check the GPS to make sure the map downloaded correctly.

 

30) See the owner’s manual for directions on how to use the controls on the GPS to layer the Topo 7 map, USGS map, and Aerial Images, and how to temporarily turn off Imagery.

 

31) To see the space available on the SD card, select on the GPS: “Menu,” “Device setup,” “Connect to computer,” “Data exchange,” “Transfer to SD card." Then, open the My Computer icon on the computer, right click the G drive (or whatever drive you computer has assigned to the PN-40), and select “Properties.”

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Having a cheat sheet like this makes it easy to overcome the "learning curve" for Topo USA. I wish DeLorme would just remake the program, from scratch, but this is the next best thing. Is the PN-40 wiki accumulating these somewhere? There needs to be some for doing all the basics -- working with waypoints, tracks, routes, etc. A good one would be how to convert a track into a routable line and then get that back in the PN-40.

[+g-o-cashers]

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/Map+Layering

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Nice!

[+priusjames]

I don't think it matters since all PN-40 users who have purchased in the last 6 months get a free upgrade to the new Topo USA 8.0:

 

http://blog.delorme.com/2009/05/06/topo-us...soon-to-release

 

Hmmm...I bought mine about two weekd ago from Amazon, Delorme sent me an email to SELL me the new software for "the reduced price of $69"!!

 

I'll follow the link, hope it pays off!

[+Pax42]

I don't think it matters since all PN-40 users who have purchased in the last 6 months get a free upgrade to the new Topo USA 8.0:

 

http://blog.delorme.com/2009/05/06/topo-us...soon-to-release

 

Hmmm...I bought mine about two weekd ago from Amazon, Delorme sent me an email to SELL me the new software for "the reduced price of $69"!!

 

I'll follow the link, hope it pays off!

 

Delorme sent that email to anyone who has signed up on the website. If you didn't get the certificate in the box with your 40, call Delorme and they will take care of you.