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Wonder if Groundspeak knows about this


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After reading about the seemingly easy update process to grab 1/4 million caches in the push of a button, how come no one has traveled down this train of thought....

 

There is a hack for EVERYTHING on the web. If this update comes from the internet, it can't be that hard to turn it into your own personal massive PQ. If you pay $70 for the unit and $20 for the update kit, that's 3 years worth of Premium Membership fees to be able to get 250,000 cache PQs for LIFE!

 

I wonder how long it will take for the hack to come out?

 

But do serious geocachers want a "PQ" with only coordinates, difficulty rating, terrain rating, and a GC code? I think this "PQ Hack" is being a little overblown.

 

Did anyone have any questions for the Geomate Jr. Guy.....I mean, someone is finally here to answer questions and all......

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There is a hack for EVERYTHING on the web. If this update comes from the internet, it can't be that hard to turn it into your own personal massive PQ. If you pay $70 for the unit and $20 for the update kit, that's 3 years worth of Premium Membership fees to be able to get 250,000 cache PQs for LIFE!

Ummm... no.

 

First, there is not "a hack for everything on the web", but OK, perhaps a license for a bit of hyperbole is allowed there.

 

Second, I doubt very much if the update does "come from the Internet", except in the broadest sense. The Geomate.jr does not have an IP address. However the update is delivered, it will be by injecting a compressed, proprietary format file into the unit's flash memory.

 

Third, even if that file were being downloaded directly from the Internet, it would not be generated by a PQ. I imagine that Apisphere have been given a snapshot of the database and do some in-house operations on it to strip it down to the minimum amount of information, then generate the update files.

 

That said, feel free to buy the unit and the upgrade package, and let us know how you get on.

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... Not having access to the cache page can cause so many problems! Warnings such as "Do not disturb any graves or monuments while searching," "The cache is not hidden in the landscaped area," "Park closes at dusk," "Do not park on the shoulder of the road or you will get ticketed," "Trailhead is located at N12 34.567 W12 34.567," and other relevant information is there for a reason. ...
This morning, I found half a dozen caches, all traditionals that could quite possibly be preloaded on the geojr. I'm not possible, but I'm reasonably certain that I didn't read a single cache description. Further, the example 'relevant information' that yhou have listed isn't really that important. Certainly, any reasonable person wouldn't require a cache description to tell him/her not to disturb graves, trespass, or park in an illegal location. Further, those that would do these things are unlikely not to do so simply because the description told them not to.
The reputation and future of the entire community can be changed by just a few people doing something stupid (South Carolina cemeteries come to mind). The members of the community (Groundspeak lackeys, local reviewers, cache owners, and cache seekers) have done a great job thus far working together to curtail the bad stuff by archiving caches when necessary, by emailing cachers who hide or hunt irresponsibly, and by discussing in a no-holds-barred manner all aspects of caching here and on more localized geocaching forums. The Geomate.jr as a product has its merits, but not requiring a minimal participation in the community can potentially have far-reaching and negative impacts on the sport itself.
First, you are misstating the South Carolina situation, in my opinion. Second, you are overstating the importance of community involvement.
After reading about the seemingly easy update process to grab 1/4 million caches in the push of a button, how come no one has traveled down this train of thought....

 

There is a hack for EVERYTHING on the web. If this update comes from the internet, it can't be that hard to turn it into your own personal massive PQ. If you pay $70 for the unit and $20 for the update kit, that's 3 years worth of Premium Membership fees to be able to get 250,000 cache PQs for LIFE!

 

I wonder how long it will take for the hack to come out?

Or skip the $70+$20, and just grab the file off a torrent site whenever it feels like your current file is getting a bit stale.
The truth is, I am completely uninterested in obtaining that 250k file. It would be all but useless. Sure, it contains 250k caches, but of those there is probably fewer than 1000 caches in any area that I'll be caching in. Further, those 1000 caches would not include all the local caches that I am interested in, so I would have to supplement with PQs. Also, as many people have complained about, the file wouldn't include much of the info included in a PQ.
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BTW- REI has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. No questions asked. That's about as low a risk as you can take for your $70.

 

If this thang doesn't perform, I'll be returning it when we get back... :cool:

 

I'm KEEPING IT! :D

 

This little unit did EXACTLY what I bought it for. I loaded into my 60CSX only caches that appeared to be an easy off and on to the highway on the route I traveled. Several times we stopped at roadside rest stops that I hadn't loaded into my Garmin. Each time I came away with a find because this unit had the cache when I didn't. B)B)B)

 

I sat through the Apisphere presentation at GW7 and I hafta say that I am open minded to their approach and I eagerly await the update package when it's released late next month!

 

Sorry to the angsters. I just can't find the mark of the beast on this one. :D

 

He didn't know I was doing it, but I checked Warren's (the Apisphere guy) head for 6's while I talked with him at GW7. His hair is pretty short and I didn't see any.... :cool::ph34r::PB):(

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Did anyone have any questions for the Geomate Jr. Guy.....I mean, someone is finally here to answer questions and all......
Yes!

 

I still want to know if I will be able to add waypoints in addition to the ones in the 250k database.

 

This Memorial Day Weekend, the camp I work at had 2 different Geocaching activities planned for the guests that were here. Because one trip was an on-camp cache, a multi-stage letterbox hybrid, and the other trip had a couple letterbox hybrids along the way, it seems the Geomate.jr would have failed me, aat very least on the multi. Will it be possible to tweak the database, even if only with a GSAK macro?

 

Seems since nobody else has seen one of these update kits, the only one who can answer this would be Warren.

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Did anyone have any questions for the Geomate Jr. Guy.....I mean, someone is finally here to answer questions and all......
Yes!

 

I still want to know if I will be able to add waypoints in addition to the ones in the 250k database.

 

This Memorial Day Weekend, the camp I work at had 2 different Geocaching activities planned for the guests that were here. Because one trip was an on-camp cache, a multi-stage letterbox hybrid, and the other trip had a couple letterbox hybrids along the way, it seems the Geomate.jr would have failed me, aat very least on the multi. Will it be possible to tweak the database, even if only with a GSAK macro?

 

Seems since nobody else has seen one of these update kits, the only one who can answer this would be Warren.

 

I saw the prototype update kit. :D

 

If I heard Warren correctly, in the future there may be a way to get unfiltered downloads by region, but that it would take a great deal of time for the Apisphere engineering team to accomplish. I don't have total recall of his informative session since it was a crazy weekend and that particular day lasted about 20 hours. :laughing:

 

BTW: (from the Geomate.jr owner's thread)

 

I logged my 700th milestone find with my Geomate today. :D

 

I wouldn't have gotten that cache today without it. I just didn't have time to load caches for this leg of the trip.

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G'day all

 

In addition to just being an incredibly enjoyable event, GW7 proved to be a fantastic opportunity to talk to many geocachers about the Geomate.jr, listen to and answer questions, and to collect a lot of good ideas! To those I did meet at GW7, a big hello!

 

One of the more common questions was about the Update Kit. And looking through this thread, it appears many others have the same Update Kit questions. So here's a bit of an Update Kit rundown...

 

With an Update Kit you will be able to load the latest version of the default geocache database (a filtered 250,000 geocaches covering the US), load unfiltered regions of the US (i.e. east, west US), or even load databases for other countries. You will also be able to customize your Geomate.jr with things like give it a nickname, change the behavior to suit your way of geocaching, or even access a 'bonus' page. There will also be a lot of other cool support features, but I need to leave something as a surprise right?

 

The Update Kit is a lot more than just a cable. To try to keep the Geomate.jr itself as affordable as possible, we've actually moved a lot of the needed communication components off the device and into the cable. We also allow one Update Kit to be used with multiple Geomate.jrs. We thought this would be better for all rather than making everyone pay for the cable with each unit they buy - especially for a family of four (for example).

 

The cost of the Update Kit will be a one time $24.95 - no yearly subscription, no service charges, no limit on quantity or frequency of updates. It will be a USB interface.

 

I hope this helps!

 

Cheers

 

Warren

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For what little it may be worth, I stopped by my local REI this weekend and saw a Geo Jr. I asked to see it... the clerk that helped me had NO idea what it was... I tried to figure it out without a manual, and in spite of 5 years of GPS experience, could not figure it out. I'm sure it would have been easy with either the manual or an educated sales person (or maybe a more intellegent operator) but I gave up.

 

Much smaller than I expected, though... just right for small hands.

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For what little it may be worth, I stopped by my local REI this weekend and saw a Geo Jr. I asked to see it... the clerk that helped me had NO idea what it was... I tried to figure it out without a manual, and in spite of 5 years of GPS experience, could not figure it out. I'm sure it would have been easy with either the manual or an educated sales person (or maybe a more intellegent operator) but I gave up.

 

Much smaller than I expected, though... just right for small hands.

 

I took mine camping near Yellowstone last weekend. I went with a coworker and his girlfriend, neither of which had heard of Geocaching. As we drove through the park I explained our game to them. When we got out of the park I handed him my 'Mate and the game was on. I had already found most of the caches so I drove and spectated.

 

He had the functionality worked out by the time we found the first cache and had the thing mastered by the end of the day.

 

Today he returned from lunch with an REI bag in his hand and a grin on his face.

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For what little it may be worth, I stopped by my local REI this weekend and saw a Geo Jr. I asked to see it... the clerk that helped me had NO idea what it was... I tried to figure it out without a manual, and in spite of 5 years of GPS experience, could not figure it out. I'm sure it would have been easy with either the manual or an educated sales person (or maybe a more intellegent operator) but I gave up.

 

Much smaller than I expected, though... just right for small hands.

 

My wife (a former REI store supervisor) figured mine out for me about 2 hours before I sat in Warren's class. I seriously couldn't figure the thing out on my own.

 

I was over thinking it. DERRRRR!

 

My 60CSX needs me to finger its buttons to get it to do what I want it to do. :blink:

 

My geomate just needs to be turned on and it automatically shows the distance and direction to the nearest cache. Derrrrr. :( With that in mind, the possibilities are endless if you just like to hunt willy nilly or you are opportunistic like me and any cache will do for a leg stretcher on the road.

 

It's okay knowschad. Our minds are too highly trained for us to figure out such simple thangs. We sometimes need another to show us the way into the light. :unsure::ph34r: My wife showed me the way in and Warren explained the rest. I was an expert in about 30 minutes after that.

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To those complaining about cachers possibly not reading descriptions: it's happening now. You are criticizing geocaching.com, not the geomate.jr. We haven't figured out how to solve this problem on gc.com, so expecting Apisphere to solve it is unrealistic.

You will also be able to select unfiltered regions
What's this about? I don't remember hearing about unfiltered regions.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'smart update'.
When you update, do you replace the entire DB? Or do you just send changes and modify the DB in the geomate? If you send the entire DB, then how large is the download, and how do you keep track of caches already found? (And as someone else asked and I don't think was answered, is there a way to mark caches that were found before acquiring the geomate?)
the Update Kit (no, it's not just a USB cable)
Are you saying it's more than a serial to USB adaptor? I can see wanting to avoid the cost of a USB chip in the geomate, but custom electronics in the update kit would explain the high cost.
In doing so, a family can now have many affordable devices and only one update kit, rather than having a number of more expensive units that has the update capability built in.
I just don't buy the idea that a serial to USB adaptor included with every unit, with a little more firmware memory in the geomate itself, would have been more expensive than a custom interface -- especially if you factor in the damage done when some users allow the geomate to go without updates for far too long because the extra $25 sounds like an unnecessary cost.

 

Psychology, Warren. People aren't going to see "we can share the update kit, so it's really just $5 on top of the unit cost". They are going to see either "it's optional, so we can save $25 by not getting it" or else "we need it, so the cost is really $95".

Personally, I would hate having to pay for the toaster every time I bought a loaf of bread to make toast - I only need one toaster...
And yet in today's world, it really is often cheaper to include the toaster with every loaf. You don't have to look very far to find examples. How much would including a serial to USB cable have added to the cost? $5? Perhaps less. I'm willing to bet that the average cost per geomate.jr of the custom solution will end up being more than a standardized solution -- in particular, I seriously doubt that the average update kit will be shared by 5 or more geomate.jrs. And I think the $25 cost will result in a significant number of geomates not getting updated as needed.

 

One custom toaster is more expensive than ten toasters embedded in the loaf of bread.

As for the warning, we do actually display the date the database was loaded upon start up.
But you can't display the % out of date, which would be far more effective in getting people to update.

 

The glory stories we've seen so far all involve using the geomate.jr as an adjunct unit. I certainly agree that in these situations, the update issues are quibbles. But I see the promotional material positioning it as an introductory unit also. For that, the update capability needs to be included, not optional.

 

I can understand the need to have it out for GW7. However, the initial unit could have included a coupon to get the update capability after GW7. I still disagree with the decision to make updating optional.

 

For all the fuss, I think I could fully support the geomate if it required gc.com registration to use, required updates or at least urged them very strongly once it was 2-4 weeks out of date, and included the update capability in the box. (I'd accept a mail-off free coupon for the latter in early-ship units.) Unfortunately, at this point I don't feel any better about it than I did an hour after first hearing about it.

 

I like the idea. I think it's progress. I think the problems could even be fixed now, unless that update kit really does have custom electronics it in, which paints you into a corner. But so far, the execution lacks in a couple of important areas.

 

Edward

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Cool.. This means that we'll be seeing more puzzle caches!

I know I for one will most likely begin archiving my traditionals and place puzzles instead.

 

I seriously doubt that a significant portion of the entire geocaching continuum will follow that lead, but I'd be interested to know how it works out for you and the other opter outers..... :blink:

 

Personally, I hide my caches to be found. My puzzels get hit farrr less often. :unsure:

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Well I have to say the unit works quite well. We compared it to our Colorado and the coords are pretty much dead on with the Colorado. The thing that bothers me most about this unit and we had several talk to Warren at GW about this is the fact that his literature that comes with the unit does not direct you to gc.com ever. Only on the package does it even mention geocaching.com. This seems like a huge mistake on Groundspeaks side to let this slip by. If they approved this unit they certainly should have directed them to tell people to check out gc.com. Basically anyone can purchase this unit, go out and look for caches that may are may not still be there but never go on gc.com to log that they visited, took a tb or coin or anything else. Big big mistake for Groundspeak in my opinion. If they tweak the manual that comes with the unit to direct folks to at least basic geocaching etiquette then it would be fine. But as it stands right now it is bad for geocaching as we know it.

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The cost of the Update Kit will be a one time $24.95 - no yearly subscription, no service charges, no limit on quantity or frequency of updates. It will be a USB interface.

 

Boy, I wish "real" geocachers could get a sweetheart deal like that. One-time fee. No agreeing to not sharing information. No limits on how often you can pull data. Just "here, fill'er up!"

 

Maybe, I should drop my GC.com subscription and get a McGPS instead.

Edited by CoyoteRed
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Yeah I miss the days when my 60CSx (RIP) would tell me all about the cache listing - Yeah Right... I could get it to cough up abbreviations of D/T FFFF and hints but to POI the whole cache page was like dufus... If this unit gets people excited about caching, thats great. My son is tired of following the arrow... and he finds them before I do as my face is stuck in the unit.

 

People get crazy around here... its almost like when micros got started and all the old codgers had to complain about each and everyone one of them ruining their game...(Wait, they still do that...) Things evolve and people move on... if you dont like the weather, go inside and leave it to someone else...

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You will also be able to select unfiltered regions

What's this about? I don't remember hearing about unfiltered regions.

 

Details, please!

 

No worries, I'm happy to provide some more details.

 

The Geomate.jr comes pre-loaded with about 250,000 geocaches that cover all 50 states - but we know that. Rather than selecting a random 250,000 geocaches, we spent a lot of time developing a filtering algorithm that will develop a list that is family-friendly, has staying power, and results in a list that will provide a first time user with an experience that is as favorable as possible. The end result roughly resulted in a list that has no 4's or 5's, only includes caches that have been in place for about 4 to 6 months (for staying power) and caches that have been found within a reasonable time.

 

But as we know, geocaches are being added all of the time. So with the Update Kit, you will be able to update the default database that the unit ships with (that has been filtered based on the above parameters) or select to load an unfiltered list (a list that has not been filtered based on age of geocache, difficultly, etc). Please note however that this list does not include premium member caches.

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So... first of all, hi! This is my first post! :o

 

A while back, my brother starts talking about needing a new GPS, cuz he's going out finding hidden treasures. Huh??? Whatever, weird kid. Then, my cousin starts talking about finding her 100th cache. I connect the dots & figure out that they're doing the same thing!

 

This past weekend, we had a little family reunion, & I decided to ask her about this mysterious world of geocaching. She turns on her blackberry & there happened to be a cache really close, so off we went to find it! I'm not really an outdoorsy kinda gal, but I loved it!!

 

She was babbling about some inexpensive little unit she was going to get, since her blackberry battery died much quicker when she used the gps function. So, I figured if it was good enough for her, i'd get one too!

 

So, I've been reading these forums non-stop for the past few days, trying to take in as much info as I can before I get started (I ordered my geomate jr on monday). Then, I stumbled onto this thread! I started reading... made it to about page 3 when I started freaking out that maybe I bought the wrong unit!! Then, I just skipped to the end page (sorry to those of you who posted on pages 4 thru 8!). The page 9 posts were a bit more reassuring!

 

I don't have kids... but, given that we have a gps for the car, & the budget is tight, I thought this would be a good unit to start with... I don't know much about geocaching, yet... but, I thought this would be bit easier for me to get started with, since it does come with the pre-programmed list of caches. I think that every worry & concern that I read on the first few pages, I'm the opposite of! It made me more curious about this site! I think i've clicked every link about 20 times! it made me excited to get out there & find caches to log! And after I convince the husband that this was not a wasted $70, I'd love to upgrade to the premium membership! (Baby steps, ya know?!)

 

So, anyway... yeah :) Hi! :ph34r:

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So, anyway... yeah :o Hi! :ph34r:

 

And a hi to you too! Thanks for making the post and sharing with us your experience and decision making process. I look forward to hearing about your adventures with the Geomate.jr and how it works out for you.

 

There is also another thread from geocachers who actually have been using the Geomate.jr. You may find it an interesting read: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=222113

 

Cheers

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I do have a couple question for Warren. Which thank you Warren for stepping up to answer question's for us. That's very helpful and I do find that as a company you guy's are willing to go above and beyond to make us cacher's happy. Kudos to ya.

 

Anyway, I was thinking about getting one of these for my son and you may not have this information till the update kit is out. I noticed you said the database is unfiltered. Does that include caches that a cacher has already found? I would like to be able to filter out already found caches for him.

 

The database is it a standard GPX file? And if so can a customer's GPX file be uploaded to it. (this could open up the use on other cache listing site's as well) Sorry, but I enjoy the whole game and not just the site's. If a customer's own GPX file can be added to it they could do all the "found" filtering via a program such as GSAK, and other GPX files from other site's could be loaded onto it.

 

Also in case I missed it somewhere, can we add a cache or two manually if one pop's up near us? Maybe we can enter a multi then work the different stage's just by added another waypoint or "cache" in this case.

 

Again thanks, for taking the time to answer questions here and not just refer us to another website with just a bunch of FAQ's. I do think very highly of that. :ph34r:

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I seriously doubt that a significant portion of the entire geocaching continuum will follow that lead, but I'd be interested to know how it works out for you and the other opter outers..... :)

 

Personally, I hide my caches to be found. My puzzels get hit farrr less often. :ph34r:

 

Actually, a majority of my traditional hides are worthy of archival anyway ^-^ :o

 

But really. What I see is the huge potential for people to come across one of these as a gift and go off on their little treasure hunt without ever even visiting geocaching.com. If and when that is the case, what is the likelyhood that they will bother with stealth, rehides, placing their own caches, becoming a member of the local geocaching community, bashing others in the forums etc...

 

Sorry I just had to throw in that last little bit ;-)

:laughing:

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I do have a couple question for Warren. Which thank you Warren for stepping up to answer question's for us. That's very helpful and I do find that as a company you guy's are willing to go above and beyond to make us cacher's happy. Kudos to ya.

 

Anyway, I was thinking about getting one of these for my son and you may not have this information till the update kit is out. I noticed you said the database is unfiltered. Does that include caches that a cacher has already found? I would like to be able to filter out already found caches for him.

 

The database is it a standard GPX file? And if so can a customer's GPX file be uploaded to it. (this could open up the use on other cache listing site's as well) Sorry, but I enjoy the whole game and not just the site's. If a customer's own GPX file can be added to it they could do all the "found" filtering via a program such as GSAK, and other GPX files from other site's could be loaded onto it.

 

Also in case I missed it somewhere, can we add a cache or two manually if one pop's up near us? Maybe we can enter a multi then work the different stage's just by added another waypoint or "cache" in this case.

 

Again thanks, for taking the time to answer questions here and not just refer us to another website with just a bunch of FAQ's. I do think very highly of that. :ph34r:

 

Thanks for the kudos! We try...

 

The file format is not just a straight GPX file - there's a lot of clever (and my software engineer paid me to say that) compression and data manipulation going on in order to be able to provide efficient cache search and ordering as well as the 250k support.

 

That said, with the Update Kit, we have plans to support Pocket Queries and GPX files from other sources. As you have picked up on, this will definately help people who want to filter out their found list and also make sure that your kids have the exact same list as you. I can't promise it will be day one of the Update Kit release, but we are shooting for it.

 

As for manually entering a waypoint in the field, unfortunately no. This was a tough compromise to make but we opted for keeping it simple rather than increasing complexity. Other possibilities will exist with the Update Kit but that won't help with multi's.

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There have been some great suggestions on various topics and I would love to hear what people think of the following ideas:

 

Rebate - we would have loved to offer the Update Kit at the same time as the Geomate.jr but alas, reality took hold and we are still a few weeks away. We are seriously thinking of offering a rebate to those daring enough to venture out and try the Geomate.jr before the Update Kit is released. Anyone interested?

 

Trackable ID card - to help people learn more about geocaching, drive people back to Geocaching.com, and to ensure newbies don't think the shiny coins are prizes, we would like to include something like a "Trackable ID card" that educates people on trackables and what to do with them. Thoughts?

 

Inclusion of a trackable - I'm really liking the idea of actually including a geocoin or TB with each unit sold. Could go a long way to getting people back to GC.com and establish a greater appreciation for trackables. Obviously there is a cost consideration, but perhaps a possibility will present itself.

 

Your thoughts and opinions on the above would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Warren

Edited by Geomate.jr
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I do have a couple question for Warren. Which thank you Warren for stepping up to answer question's for us. That's very helpful and I do find that as a company you guy's are willing to go above and beyond to make us cacher's happy. Kudos to ya.

 

Anyway, I was thinking about getting one of these for my son and you may not have this information till the update kit is out. I noticed you said the database is unfiltered. Does that include caches that a cacher has already found? I would like to be able to filter out already found caches for him.

 

The database is it a standard GPX file? And if so can a customer's GPX file be uploaded to it. (this could open up the use on other cache listing site's as well) Sorry, but I enjoy the whole game and not just the site's. If a customer's own GPX file can be added to it they could do all the "found" filtering via a program such as GSAK, and other GPX files from other site's could be loaded onto it.

 

Also in case I missed it somewhere, can we add a cache or two manually if one pop's up near us? Maybe we can enter a multi then work the different stage's just by added another waypoint or "cache" in this case.

 

Again thanks, for taking the time to answer questions here and not just refer us to another website with just a bunch of FAQ's. I do think very highly of that. :o

 

Thanks for the kudos! We try...

 

The file format is not just a straight GPX file - there's a lot of clever (and my software engineer paid me to say that) compression and data manipulation going on in order to be able to provide efficient cache search and ordering as well as the 250k support.

 

That said, with the Update Kit, we have plans to support Pocket Queries and GPX files from other sources. As you have picked up on, this will definately help people who want to filter out their found list and also make sure that your kids have the exact same list as you. I can't promise it will be day one of the Update Kit release, but we are shooting for it.

 

As for manually entering a waypoint in the field, unfortunately no. This was a tough compromise to make but we opted for keeping it simple rather than increasing complexity. Other possibilities will exist with the Update Kit but that won't help with multi's.

 

Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer my question's. :) Yeah if I can run his stuff threw GSAK, then I can filter out his find's and spit out a GPX file for him and his unfound regardless of what's in the database.

 

Maybe that one marking of a waypoint or as you refer to it "home", could some how be changed in the software to allow you to mark a spot and then somehow let you edit the cord's, then doing a multi would be possible. Just a thought. I still haven't seen one up close, or used one.

 

My little one, always want's to have "control" of the GPSr and he's so not getting his hand's on the 600 dollar one. But really he would probably treat it better than I do. I am kind of ruff on mine. :ph34r:

 

This may be a great B-day present for him. :laughing:

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There have been some great suggestions on various topics and I would love to hear what people think of the following ideas:

 

Rebate - we would have loved to offer the Update Kit at the same time as the Geomate.jr but alas, reality took hold and we are still a few weeks away. We are seriously thinking of offering a rebate to those daring enough to venture out and try the Geomate.jr before the Update Kit is released. Anyone interested?

 

Trackable ID card - to help people learn more about geocaching, drive people back to Geocaching.com, and to ensure newbies don't think the shiny coins are prizes, we would like to include something like a "Trackable ID card" that educates people on trackables and what to do with them. Thoughts?

 

Inclusion of a trackable - I'm really liking the idea of actually including a geocoin or TB with each unit sold. Could go a long way to getting people back to GC.com and establish a greater appreciation for trackables. Obviously there is a cost consideration, but perhaps a possibility will present itself.

 

Your thoughts and opinions on the above would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Warren

 

I just ordered mine this week... and yeah, that rebate would've been appealing, since I'm already wondering how soon I can swing the update kit without the husband getting too cranky! :ph34r:

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I know it was desired to keep it simple by not having a way of entering a waypoint in the field, but it seems that is a bit short sighted.

 

As new geocachers get into the hobby, they will undoubtedly meet up with other geocachers in the field. They may also meet up with others at events, but that of course would require that they know about the event by logging into geocaching.com and notice the event.

 

So now they meet up with new found friends who want to do a multi, or puzzle. The geomater has to say "ah, shucks. I'll just have to tag along because all I have is a geomate." So they put the geomate in their pocket and walk sadly behind the group, and are forced to talk to people along the way rather than stare at their palm.

 

A geomater will also find it harder to "give back" by hiding caches. Without having the ability to set waypoints, it becomes much more difficult to make a hide and join the rest of the community. Maybe there is a way of viewing the coordinates on the screen itself, and then just write them down on paper (gasp!).

 

Hopefully as more of these units are sold and geomaters start realizing they can't go out and do all the caches with their friends, maybe a firmware update will be available to allow for saving a few waypoints?

 

A big part of geocaching becomes, after a short time, a social hobby. A geomate may take out some of the social aspect of the game because visits to the website are not required, or at least would probably not occur as much as somebody with a "regular" GPS. That's not necessarily a bad thing, just "different".

 

Otherwise it looks like an interesting product for a newbie, and could serve as a bridge product to a full featured GPS.

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There have been some great suggestions on various topics and I would love to hear what people think of the following ideas:

 

Rebate - we would have loved to offer the Update Kit at the same time as the Geomate.jr but alas, reality took hold and we are still a few weeks away. We are seriously thinking of offering a rebate to those daring enough to venture out and try the Geomate.jr before the Update Kit is released. Anyone interested?

 

Trackable ID card - to help people learn more about geocaching, drive people back to Geocaching.com, and to ensure newbies don't think the shiny coins are prizes, we would like to include something like a "Trackable ID card" that educates people on trackables and what to do with them. Thoughts?

 

Inclusion of a trackable - I'm really liking the idea of actually including a geocoin or TB with each unit sold. Could go a long way to getting people back to GC.com and establish a greater appreciation for trackables. Obviously there is a cost consideration, but perhaps a possibility will present itself.

 

Your thoughts and opinions on the above would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Warren

 

 

I think you are addressing all of the issues that have been brought up. With the addition of some simple educational material such as the trackable id card and the ability to load PQs this could turn out to be a useful geo-tool after all.

 

A rebate offer could be a way to drive interest in the unit and would certainly make the update kit more attractive. It would depend on how you set up the deal and how much of an advantage it was for the consumer.

 

If you did a bulk deal with GS for TB tags I'm certain that you could work out a reasonable deal. More cost effective than a coin and has the added benefit of making the hobby more personal when a beginner sends off a trinket of their own to travel who knows where. The tags would tie in well with the traveler id card and make any new user pay more attention to the included informational materials.

 

Thanks for taking the time to address the issues and answer questions.

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But really. What I see is the huge potential for people to come across one of these as a gift and go off on their little treasure hunt without ever even visiting geocaching.com. If and when that is the case, what is the likelyhood that they will bother with stealth, rehides, placing their own caches, becoming a member of the local geocaching community, bashing others in the forums etc...
About a hundred years ago, I gave all the guys in our wedding party a little yellow etrex with caches local to their homes already plugged in. This didn't result in the death of caching in their regions.
... As for manually entering a waypoint in the field, unfortunately no. This was a tough compromise to make but we opted for keeping it simple rather than increasing complexity. Other possibilities will exist with the Update Kit but that won't help with multi's.
As I understand it, a person would be able to hide a cache using the geojr by marking the cache location as 'home', right? Alternatively, a person could simply go to the navigation page to find the coords and write them down. Similarly, someone could find a cache (or stage of a cache) that wasn't loaded into the geojr simply by reviewing the coords on the navigation page and walking in the correct direction to make them match the target coords. Many people who have owned GPSrs that didn't allow easy coord entry (like many street nav units) have used this method.
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Rebate - we would have loved to offer the Update Kit at the same time as the Geomate.jr but alas, reality took hold and we are still a few weeks away. We are seriously thinking of offering a rebate to those daring enough to venture out and try the Geomate.jr before the Update Kit is released. Anyone interested?

 

Yeah! Finally a tech company that wants to thank its early adopters!

 

COOOOOL!!!

 

Trackable ID card - to help people learn more about geocaching, drive people back to Geocaching.com, and to ensure newbies don't think the shiny coins are prizes, we would like to include something like a "Trackable ID card" that educates people on trackables and what to do with them. Thoughts?

 

It's a must do. I think it will go a long ways to relieve the angst towards your product.

 

Inclusion of a trackable - I'm really liking the idea of actually including a geocoin or TB with each unit sold. Could go a long way to getting people back to GC.com and establish a greater appreciation for trackables. Obviously there is a cost consideration, but perhaps a possibility will present itself.

 

I like the idea too. :laughing:

 

Here's a thought that could kill 2 birds with one stone:

 

Any Joe Geocacher can buy a trackable. Any Joe Geocacher and buy a sequence of tracking numbers alone to have put on a coin or other personal trackable.

 

Why not go in a unique direction....? :):ph34r:

 

You could make these units trackable themselves...:o

 

Your partnership with Groundspeak should get you a massive amount of trackable numbers cheaply to emboss on your production units....

 

Each person could then activate their 'mate as a personal trackable. You could then produce a nice coin to thank your early adoptors that didn't get an embossed trackable unit and that takes care of your rebate.

 

I'd certainly be verrry happy to get an early adoptors coin instead of a rebate.

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My geomate just needs to be turned on and it automatically shows the distance and direction to the nearest cache.

 

Is there no way to select the next cache, then? Is it always going to take you to the next-nearest cache? If that is indeed true, any seasoned cacher knows that is a very inefficient way to cache in most real-life situations.

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My geomate just needs to be turned on and it automatically shows the distance and direction to the nearest cache.

 

Is there no way to select the next cache, then? Is it always going to take you to the next-nearest cache? If that is indeed true, any seasoned cacher knows that is a very inefficient way to cache in most real-life situations.

 

You can select among the nearest 20 caches and your home coordinate at any time.

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Any seasoned cacher will unlikely be using this unit for efficient cache runs. That;s the job for their real handhelds.

 

It's niche for us is obviating the need to run a cache-along-a-route PQ for every trip for those wifely "omg I need a pee" moments* =}

 

 

* when we usually just want an easy traditional, no time for multis or puzzles :ph34r:

Edited by Maingray
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Rebate...

 

Instead of a rebate for us Pioneers, how about a comp on the update cable? I'd be happy to report to the masses how it works when it arrives.

 

Any seasoned cacher will unlikely be using this unit for efficient cache runs. That;s the job for their real handhelds.

 

It's niche for us is obviating the need to run a cache-along-a-route PQ for every trip for those wifely "omg I need a pee" moments* =}

 

 

* when we usually just want an easy traditional, no time for multis or puzzles :ph34r:

 

I disagree. I'm a "seasoned" cacher and have been using my 'Mate exclusively for the past 2 weeks. This unit has breathed new life into my habit and I'm having a great time.

 

Having a great time *is* whats it's all about after all.

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Any seasoned cacher will unlikely be using this unit for efficient cache runs. That;s the job for their real handhelds.

 

The primary market was said to be for parents that want to let their kids cache with them. If Mom and Dad are using a standard GPS and have enough experience to know that always going to the next-nearest can cause them to go east 0.1, then west 0.2, then east 0.3, then west 0.4 (etc), the ability to select caches on the Jr is essential (obviously, my scenario is oversimplified, but you get my drift, I'm sure)

 

However, Snoogans has pointed out to me that you have a selection of the nearest 20, so that should be plenty of selection to avoid that scenario.

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My geomate just needs to be turned on and it automatically shows the distance and direction to the nearest cache.
Is there no way to select the next cache, then? Is it always going to take you to the next-nearest cache? If that is indeed true, any seasoned cacher knows that is a very inefficient way to cache in most real-life situations.
I tend to cache using one of two methods. 1) I will be somewhere living my life and decide to find a geocache, in which case I just turn on my GPSr and go after the nearest couple of caches. 2) I will plan out a day of caching using MS S&T or MapPoint and print out my expected route. I realize that this method isn't exactly 'paperless', but it's convenient for me and allows Cathy to be able to have some clue where I've gone.

 

I think that the geojr would be able to handle either method pretty much as easily as my regular GPSr. The only thing lost is street level routing which is accomodated through he use of my printed route and/or my Jeep's nav system.

Edited by sbell111
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Rebate...

 

Instead of a rebate for us Pioneers, how about a comp on the update cable? I'd be happy to report to the masses how it works when it arrives.

 

Any seasoned cacher will unlikely be using this unit for efficient cache runs. That;s the job for their real handhelds.

 

It's niche for us is obviating the need to run a cache-along-a-route PQ for every trip for those wifely "omg I need a pee" moments* =}

 

 

* when we usually just want an easy traditional, no time for multis or puzzles :ph34r:

 

I disagree. I'm a "seasoned" cacher and have been using my 'Mate exclusively for the past 2 weeks. This unit has breathed new life into my habit and I'm having a great time.

 

Having a great time *is* whats it's all about after all.

 

Are you on vacation or using it in your home area? If in your home area how are you dealing with the caches you had already found before acquiring the GeomateJr?

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Are you on vacation or using it in your home area? If in your home area how are you dealing with the caches you had already found before acquiring the GeomateJr?

 

I used it on vacation and it got me a half dozen caches I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. My 60CSX wasn't loaded for caches in those areas.

 

At home, I pretty much know where I've found caches before. It won't be an issue for me.

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This kind of goes along with my biggest fear when thinking of this device...Parents/Grandparents/Uncle/Etc buy this for the kids and turn them loose...with little or no instructions, and the kids start finding Caches without the basic understanding to leave them in place, and what to do with Trackables and not to put certain things in them. :ph34r:

 

Have you seen today's helicopter parents? When was the last time you saw a kid doing ANYTHING on their own anymore without parental supervision?

 

Heck, with the technically advanced society these kids have grown up in, it is more likely the kids who will turn the parents lose with the GeoMate Jr. because they are sick of loading dad's PQs into the 60CSx for them! :o

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So we have used this gps on several occaisions now and the more I learn about it and the more I hear what Warren has to say I am liking it more and more. If you add the card to direct people back to gc.com then I feel this is going to be a great unit for kids and folks that just don't want all the fuss of of the fancier units. Warren has really stepped up and listened to a lot of complaints as well as suggestions and responded to most. We all appreciate that. We are sending our unit out with some friends of ours that are cachers and they are heading out on a 2 week trip through several states. I will post his feedback once he returns.

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Are you on vacation or using it in your home area? If in your home area how are you dealing with the caches you had already found before acquiring the GeomateJr?

 

I've just recently moved from Idaho to Denver, so most of my local caches are unfound by me. I also tend to shun urban caching altogether so it's really not an issue for me.

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Will it be possible to tweak the database, even if only with a GSAK macro?
That said, with the Update Kit, we have plans to support Pocket Queries and GPX files from other sources.
Ah-ha! This answers my question, thanks! :D
...Otherwise it looks like an interesting product for a newbie, and could serve as a bridge product to a full featured GPS.
...the Geomate.Sr? :lol:
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After reading about the seemingly easy update process to grab 1/4 million caches in the push of a button, how come no one has traveled down this train of thought....

 

There is a hack for EVERYTHING on the web. If this update comes from the internet, it can't be that hard to turn it into your own personal massive PQ. If you pay $70 for the unit and $20 for the update kit, that's 3 years worth of Premium Membership fees to be able to get 250,000 cache PQs for LIFE!

 

I wonder how long it will take for the hack to come out?

 

The 250K download is bare bones. GC code, Lat/Long and D/T. No description. No logs. No Hints.

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Hi Dan

 

 

We are a small company and we still have a lot to do. We have some great ideas on how better to continue developing community and to reward those who take the time to place caches. While we are working on improving our offerings, we have made a conscious decision to work only with distribution channels that understand and respect geocaching and the community - Groundspeak and REI. Now is our chance to learn, refine, and improve. And your help with this is most welcome.

I think that was a great move, but I guess I must congratulate you on your sucess. You must be selling quite a few units now, and had to move to wider distribution. I saw these on the shelf at Target the other day, right next to the MagellanGC which also comes preloaded with Geocaches(Partners or Competition?). Yours is much more fun looking though. I have one, but have not used it very often yet. I found it very helpful when I ended up in places where I had not researched any Caches but thought thaer MUST be one nearby.

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Will it be possible to tweak the database, even if only with a GSAK macro?
That said, with the Update Kit, we have plans to support Pocket Queries and GPX files from other sources.
Ah-ha! This answers my question, thanks! :P
...Otherwise it looks like an interesting product for a newbie, and could serve as a bridge product to a full featured GPS.
...the Geomate.Sr? :lol:

 

A senior would be soooooooo nice slightly bigger fonts for these old eyes. And a backlight for us old guys who get up in the middle of the night.

 

Please, pretty please

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