Wonder if Groundspeak knows about this

[+Parabola]

After thinking more and more about this thing. It got me thinking. Yep even the smoke detector's in the house went off. But at least I know the batteries are good in them. :anibad

 

I have a little one. He enjoy's going caching. There's no way I would let him go on his own and I don't think he would want too. He enjoy's the time him and I spend together and the cool McToy's we find and trade for. But there's no way I'm going to teach him how to use a GPS on something this basic. I'm at least going to get an regular compass out, and show him how to use a regular one and one in the GPS as well. That's just one example. Like projecting a way point. We are not going to go out and skip multi's and stuff. I would want that sort of thing in there. One of his favorite cache's is a really tough multi we took on together. I had to give him a piggyback ride out of the park at the end of the day. This thing would have been worthless for him for that cache.

 

At first I thought the price was right and thought maybe I'll get him one. Till I see if doesn't do a heck of a lot at all. I'd get a Garmin etrex or something similar for him first. At least then we could do a multi cache with it. And he would learn how to use a GPS. Not just hit a button and go. Well he still could just hit a button and go, but for just a little more money, I think that route would be better in my case.

 

And I don't agree with the decision to let these get this mass download of data, when we can't even get our PQ result's raised to 1000 caches.

[+Babsbaby]

I've read this thread with interest. I'm in UK, so mass marketing of this gadget is unlikely to happen here. (I'm not holding my breath, though!)

 

Although I can empathise with cache owners who are worried about their caches being muggled / trashed, one useful thing occurred to me. A few years ago, we had a fly-drive holiday in America and I spent ages beforehand fiddling about with with PQs trying to select 500 caches from the thousands in California, Nevada and Arizona that we might visit (Etrex Venture & Palm/Cachemate) . I settled on focussing on the areas where we were staying overnight, but I know I missed loads of great caches en route that we would certainly have stopped for. An inexpensive toy like this, holding 250k caches would have given us so many more opportunities for caching on our hols. I've now invested in more modern kit, but I still can't match 250k caches in my hand. BTW, I would, of course, have observed correct cache etiquette and logged online, making sure to thank the cache owner nicely.

 

Q: Does the Jr give the hint? Cos they're right useful when starting out!

[+Don_J]

What I'm curious about; does the thing even tell you what the GC# is of the cache that you just found with it? If it simply tells you that the cache is named, "Don't Fence me In", how would someone know which one it is of the 124 that exist?

 

If a family goes out with just this device and finds 10 caches in a day, is there a way for them to determine what caches they have found at the end of the day?

 

I have a feeling that unless someone in the party has a "grown up" GPS unit, or is keeping detailed notes, (which would be counter to the "FUN" they are marketing), it would be next to impossible to log the finds on the web site.

 

I read the first press release a few days before this hit the forums. I read it about five minutes after I had archived a cache and my very first thought was that there were units sitting in REI that may have my now archived cache in it. My second thought was how much fun can a noob have looking for a cache that doesn't exist, and is no longer listed? Third thought was how much damage will they do to the terrain before they give up?

 

All are points well covered in this thread.

[+Viajero Perdido]

From the user manual, it looks like the only information given is: Location, Difficulty, Terrain, and (with some button-punching) GCxxxxx.

 

Conspicuous by their absence are: Title, Owner, Hint, Description, Additional Waypoints.

[+Tequila]

From the user manual, it looks like the only information given is: Location, Difficulty, Terrain, and (with some button-punching) GCxxxxx.

 

Conspicuous by their absence are: Title, Owner, Hint, Description, Additional Waypoints.

 

The lack of additional waypoints and description can be a real problem. Often the road closest to the cache is not the proper way to the cache. And it could be private property. How is a rookie going to know they should drive around to the other side?

[CoyoteRed]

Hey, Lep.

 

Are any of your caches on this thing. If so, how does that reconcile with your agreements with land owner about removing any and all information about your caches if they those to have you archive them?

 

That's definitely calls into question any cache owner's ability to remove cache information for a land owner who no longer wants folks on his property. This thing runs 180° out from always getting the freshest data.

[+solo63137]

156 posts...

This has got to be the busiest thread on here... May thats the reason for the Forum Server Timeout thread... j/k...

 

I guess we all get the pic, three or four people think its a good idea, one or two don't care The rest are 100% against it and will stop caching or make all their caches premium only...

[+Tequila]

All of my caches were/are already PMO. Guess I saw this sort of mess coming.

[+BadAndy]

Picked one up at REI today. Went into the parking lot popped in batteries, turned it on and followed the arrow 300 feet to a cache. Pushed a button and the GCXXXX was displayed.

 

It's smaller than I envisioned and the screen doesn't appear to be backlit. There was a small foldout quickstart guide but no user manual. There was a url you could go to for a pdf copy instead.

 

It's included database displays the closest 20 caches from your location. Compared to the geocaching.com website there are 32 caches in the same radius.

 

It's simple to operate and is cheap. The most difficult thing for me was dumbing down to it's level. Once that was sorted out things got real easy.

[GOF and Bacall]

The most difficult thing for me was dumbing down to it's level.

 

[sarcasm]WooHoo! One more thing in the world dumbing down. We need to get every aspect of life dumbed down to the lowest level. That way even the least among us can compete at the same level as the greatest. Fair is fair.[/sarcasm]

[+sbell111]

What it means to have an update kit

Always have the latest and greatest nation- wide cache list.

Get every possible cache for any given region.

Vacationing in Germany? Then get the cache list for Germany, or England, or Australia...

I guess that I'm missing your point. When they say 'every cache', they don't mean 'every cache'. They mean every traditional cache that meets their search criteria (up to 250k caches).

This is from the geomate.jr website (FAQ section):

 

FAQs

This little collection of Frequently Asked Questions just might contain the answer you’re looking for...

 

Does the Geomate.jr contain ALL possible geocaches?

To make sure that your first geocaching adventure is the best possible, we’ve actually taken out geocaches that haven’t been found for awhile or are too difficult to find. The Geomate.jr also only supports ‘traditional’ geocaches so it doesn’t include mystery, multi, or puzzle caches, and only supports US caches (for now). But don’t worry, the 250,000 geocaches that the Geomate.jr ships with should keep you busy for awhile...

 

If I use the Update Kit, do I get ALL geocaches then?

Yep, all traditional geocaches anyway. You can even get geocaches for other countries other than the US!

 

I interpret the highlighted section ("all traditional geocaches") to mean, well, ALL TRADITIONAL GEOCACHES, including those with 5/5 D/T combos.

 

Here's the link: geomate.jr FAQ

Still, the unit holds 250k caches. If there are more than that, it won't have them all, will it? Also, if any caches are outside the criteria of the prebuild geomate queries, they will not be sent to the unit.

Per the user manual.... Interesting since it is supposed to 'family friendly.' Take the fam out for a 5/5 anyone? Here JR. Happy Birthday.... now go find these things. Make sure if you find a rock wall you pull emm out they may be hidden in there. ...

 

They can be hidden almost anywhere! Common hiding places and tricks

include:

• In or behind bushes

• Inside or under logs

• Magnetically attached to the back of street signs

• Underneath park benches

• Between rocks or small caves

• In gaps in rock walls ***Gee How many debates has this one spurred?

I've found caches in each of those places. Therefore, I assume that the verbiage is correct.

The lack of additional waypoints and description can be a real problem. Often the road closest to the cache is not the proper way to the cache. And it could be private property. How is a rookie going to know they should drive around to the other side?

I guess they would figure out that the same as the rest of us have for years. After all, most caches do not include this info.

 

Note to Lep: Please stop coming into my home and deleting archived caches from my GPSr. It is bothering my wife.

Edited May 17, 2009 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

The most difficult thing for me was dumbing down to it's level.

[sarcasm]WooHoo! One more thing in the world dumbing down. We need to get every aspect of life dumbed down to the lowest level. That way even the least among us can compete at the same level as the greatest. Fair is fair.[/sarcasm]

No one is forcing you to use this unit. You are welcome to use the most complicated method you can. No dumbing down for you. Edited May 17, 2009 by sbell111

[+olbluesguy]

I can see a lot of potential problems with not having to use the GC site.

Even basic easy caches sometimes need warnings on the cache page.

Like ,do not attempt to reach the cache from above because you may fall off the cliff.

Or.warnings of muggles of questionable character, Neighborhood dogs,

park hours, bees nests, snakes, nasty neighbors, etc.

I won't go as far as to make all my hides PM but I am sure thinking of making them multi's if they can't add coordinates

[AZcachemeister]

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members?

While I'm no expert, marketing logic suggests the company that made this POS paid Groundspeak what TPTB felt was a reasonable fee for the service. This cost has probably been absorbed into the price of the unit. I'd bet if you'd contact Jeremy, offering him heaps of crinkly green paper with the images of dead Presidents on them, he might be willing to offer you an increase in your PQ allowance.

 

And it would only cost you $30 a year.

[AZcachemeister]

Given that I can get a Garmin GPS MAP 76, Venture CX, or Legend off EBay for about the same money...

I just don't see the point.

[+sbell111]

Given that I can get a Garmin GPS MAP 76, Venture CX, or Legend off EBay for about the same money...

I just don't see the point.

I think BadAndy described the 'point' quite well:

Picked one up at REI today. Went into the parking lot popped in batteries, turned it on and followed the arrow 300 feet to a cache. Pushed a button and the GCXXXX was displayed.

...

It's simple to operate and is cheap. The most difficult thing for me was dumbing down to it's level. Once that was sorted out things got real easy.

[GerritS]

In my experience, this "caching with kids" thing is way overblown. Even the "caching is a family activity" doesn't fit with what I see with my own eyes. Sure, I know of some exceptions, but I'd guess that 85% or more of the cachers in my area are at least 50 years old. I know a few families that have tried caching with their kids or grandchildren, but generally it doesn't work out very well, or for long.

 

As for it being an inexpensive entry device, that means that if they find that they like the activity, that $100 eTrex ends up costing them $169 (well, maybe $159 after the Kiddy GPS sells at their next garage sale)

 

I got my sister and her kids hooked, but then she has VERY stricked selfimposed rules on which caches she goes for...

 

No multi's they get board . No hard finds/ micros (wheres the treasure) the larger the box the better. She will also choose the walk to suit how long they have/ tired they are etc.

 

She finds it a great excuse to get the kids out looking for treausre. The idea of doing more than 2 in one day is appauling to her ... Yet they have great fun and her children see me and think caching, I see them and think its going to be a long day to do a couple of easy trads!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Here's a custom PQ on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.com/Geocache-Pocket-Query-...=item4a97afc7f6

 

Now you can receive single POCKET QUERIES of the caches within 100 miles of your ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATE with the purchase of a single POCKET QUERY that will likely last for months! Pocket Queries allow you to get a subset of caches e-mailed directly to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU PROVIDE and will contain all of the caches wthin 100 miles of the ZIP CODE or the GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. These can be printed or downloaded into various free and EASY GPS or other software (Googe: FREE GPS SOFTWARE). These computer files can then be loaded directly into your GPS via a connecting cable. The file you receive WILL BE compressed (ZIPPED) to minimize bandwidth and prevent corruption. What you provide: Payment of $3.00 (PayPal ONLY!) The ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATES where you want the PQ centered. The EMAIL ADDRESS where you want to receive the PQ. What you get: You will receive a PQ containing the following: ALL caches listed within 100 miles of the center of the ZIP code or GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. ALL caches which are available (ACTIVE) to ALL users. ALL containers ALL sizes ALL terrains and difficulty ratings There is no limit on the number of PQ's you may bid on. The PQ will be sent to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU SPECIFY (please type carefully) at NO CHARGE! Buy them as a gift for your favorite cacher! THERE IS NO FEE FOR SHIPPING/HANDLING! Due to the nature of the data there is are NO REFUNDS or RETURNS on this item!

 

So, how long before the Geomate's 250,000 cache listings will be for sale or trade online?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members?

While I'm no expert, marketing logic suggests the company that made this POS paid Groundspeak what TPTB felt was a reasonable fee for the service. This cost has probably been absorbed into the price of the unit. I'd bet if you'd contact Jeremy, offering him heaps of crinkly green paper with the images of dead Presidents on them, he might be willing to offer you an increase in your PQ allowance.

 

And it would only cost you $30 a year.

I read in another thread, can't state it as fact, that updates are $25.

 

Can someone who bought one confirm or deny that?

Edited May 17, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+PhxChem]

Wow, all it took was this simplified GPS to get people all riled up?

 

As a parent (you will recognize us because we're the ones with the kids in tow while caching), I think this is a great idea! I can have my GPS, my kids (the oldest which is 3) can have their GPS "toy"......one big happy global positioning family.

 

Dumbed down? It's marketed for kids for little Billy's sake! While I would never call my kids dumb, they haven't quite mastered the concept of satellites orbiting the planet sending out signals to people searching for tupperware containers for fun. Heck, they barely even understand the concept not crapping their pants.... This device is perfect....it points to the cache. What more do my kids need?

 

I guess I'm not believing that this product will usher in the no-log, trashed cache cataclysmic apocalypse that is being predicted.

 

And as a cache-owner, bring on these terrifying zombie cache-destroying newbies.....sounds like we might need some fresh blood around these parts....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Wow, all it took was this simplified GPS to get people all riled up?

The easy part doesn't bother me so much as the fact that it:

Flies in the face of Groundspeak's argument that large PQs won't be made available.

Ignores the fact that the data will be inaccurate soon after purchase. Buy it, do an initial data load, then how often can you update it, and at what cost? Oh wait! No need (or even capability) for an initial data load... it's pre-loaded! With data from months if not years ago! There should be a Data Load Date clearly visible on the packaging so customers can see how far out of date what they're buying is. Vendors should have to pull unsold units with a Data Load Date greater than six months off the shelf to send back for fresh data.

Forces buyers to buy an "optional" update kit. If your choice is buy the update kit or throw the unit in the trash, that's not optional!

Does not offer such basics as the ability to waypoint your car

Or leave a breadcrumb trail to get back to it.

Leaves no path to education. The kid buys it, learns it, finds a few caches, is ready to learn something more, has to throw this thing away and buy a real GPS!

Costs, with initial purchase + update kit + rumored update fee, more than an equally easy but much more capable eTrex H.

Provides 250,000 listings nation-wide. How many kids travel nation-wide very often? They need local PQs!

The main selling point for Premium Memberships is a PQ, which is limited to 500 listings, but they sell 250,000 on this thing.

 

No, it being easy isn't what I am unsure about, it's all the rest of it that leaves me with questions!

 

Here's the scenario I see happening most often... Mom and or Dad has a real GPS with local caches loaded. They get one of these things for Johnnie and Jill to share and head out for a carefree day of caching. The vast majority of the caches Mom and Dad have on their GPS are not on the kid's unit, and can't be added. "Daddy, we can't stop at that one, it's not in my POS Geomate.jr." How long before both parents and kids get frustrated?

 

And about easy... I raised 5 kids, all computer-savvy and quite technically proficient with I-pods and cell phones and such... most 6-year-olds these days learn technology faster than us old folks! Any one of my kids would have outgrown this thing in about 4 hours!

 

If I set out to devise a business plan designed to frustrate and anger my customers I could not score a more direct hit!

Edited May 17, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+briansnat]

I'm not getting the angst over this thing. I have mixed feelings about this device and some concerns about how this was implemented, but overall I think bringing geocaching to the technologically impaired is a good thing.

 

First off I don't envision hordes of parents packing their 8 year olds a lunch, handing them a GeomateJr and sending them off unsupervised. I do see families who found the idea of learning to use a GPS too daunting to consider the sport, now able to participate.

 

As a cache owner I'm thrilled at the idea of more people having the opportunity to find my caches. That's why I place them. I hope most of my caches are on the unit. My question would be "How can I get them on there?" not "How can I get them off?".

 

The way I see this the bulk of the risk is to the purchasers of the unit, who will have stale data the minute they buy it, the company who makes it (will we see this on Woot.com a year from now at 2 for $14.99?) and Groundspeak, who I'm sure weighed the risk of sending people off on cache hunts without needing to access the website.

 

For us cache owners it means more people to find our caches. More searchers does increases exposure of our caches to mistreatment, but that's all a part of the gamble we take when we place the things.

 

Besides it's little different than the hordes of Nuvi and Tom Tom users who have recently entered the sport, or when geocaching is featured on the TV news, in a newspaper or magazine article, on CSI or in a motion picture, but I never see people foaming at the mouth over those.

Edited May 17, 2009 by briansnat

[+ChileHead]

Here's a custom PQ on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.com/Geocache-Pocket-Query-...=item4a97afc7f6

 

Now you can receive single POCKET QUERIES of the caches within 100 miles of your ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATE with the purchase of a single POCKET QUERY that will likely last for months! Pocket Queries allow you to get a subset of caches e-mailed directly to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU PROVIDE and will contain all of the caches wthin 100 miles of the ZIP CODE or the GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. These can be printed or downloaded into various free and EASY GPS or other software (Googe: FREE GPS SOFTWARE). These computer files can then be loaded directly into your GPS via a connecting cable. The file you receive WILL BE compressed (ZIPPED) to minimize bandwidth and prevent corruption. What you provide: Payment of $3.00 (PayPal ONLY!) The ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATES where you want the PQ centered. The EMAIL ADDRESS where you want to receive the PQ. What you get: You will receive a PQ containing the following: ALL caches listed within 100 miles of the center of the ZIP code or GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. ALL caches which are available (ACTIVE) to ALL users. ALL containers ALL sizes ALL terrains and difficulty ratings There is no limit on the number of PQ's you may bid on. The PQ will be sent to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU SPECIFY (please type carefully) at NO CHARGE! Buy them as a gift for your favorite cacher! THERE IS NO FEE FOR SHIPPING/HANDLING! Due to the nature of the data there is are NO REFUNDS or RETURNS on this item!

 

So, how long before the Geomate's 250,000 cache listings will be for sale or trade online?

 

The ebay listing violates terms of use as specified here:

http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/agreement.aspx

and has been reported to ebay officials.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm not getting the angst over this thing. I have mixed feelings about this device and some concerns about how this was implemented, but overall I think bringing geocaching to the technologically impaired is a good thing.

Agreed! But what kid 6 years an up is technologically impaired these days? They know more about toys like this than most grownups!

 

First off I don't envision hordes of parents packing their 8 year olds a lunch, handing them a GeomateJr and sending them off unsupervised. I do see families who found the idea of learning to use a GPS too daunting to consider the sport, now able to participate.

Agreed, no responsible parent will turn a kid loose with one of these except maybe in their immediate neighborhood, especially since the market appears to be the under-6 crowd. My concern is the family outing described at the bottom of my previous post where the kids don't have the data their parent's do. That's gonna get ugly real quick!

 

As a cache owner I'm thrilled at the idea of more people having the opportunity to find my caches. That's why I place them. I hope most of my caches are on the unit. My question would be "How can I get them on there?" not "How can I get them off?".

Agreed. I spend quite a lot of time recruiting folks, doing presentations at schools, giving presentations for newbies at events. More cachers, especially families, is a good thing.

 

The way I see this the bulk of the risk is to the purchasers of the unit, who will have stale data the minute they buy it, the company who makes it (will we see this on Woot.com a year from now at 2 for $14.99?) and Groundspeak, who I'm sure weighed the risk of sending people off on cache hunts without needing to access the website.

Plus all of the issue enumerated in my post above!

 

For us cache owners it means more people to find our caches. More searchers does increases exposure of our caches to mistreatment, but that's all a part of the gamble we take when we place the things.

Agreed. More cachers means more chance of poor behavior, but that's just a factor of growing the game, not this device.

 

Besides it's little different than the hordes of Nuvi and Tom Tom users who have recently entered the sport, or when geocaching is featured on the TV news, in a newspaper or magazine article, on CSI or in a motion picture, but I never see people foaming at the mouth over those.

It's quite different, actually... all of those folks get their data and learn the game the same way we do.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

So, how long before the Geomate's 250,000 cache listings will be for sale or trade online?

 

The ebay listing violates terms of use as specified here:

http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/agreement.aspx

and has been reported to ebay officials.

True, but that's just eBay, where we have some level of control. My question remains as far as all other websites. I can see this 250,000 cache PQ being made available shortly!

 

Just ask the music industry how easy it is to stop people from distributing your files!

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see this file on LimeWire by next week.

Edited May 17, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+briansnat]

Besides it's little different than the hordes of Nuvi and Tom Tom users who have recently entered the sport, or when geocaching is featured on the TV news, in a newspaper or magazine article, on CSI or in a motion picture, but I never see people foaming at the mouth over those.

It's quite different, actually... all of those folks get their data and learn the game the same way we do.

 

I don't see how they get their data as an issue, other than the fact that it will be stale, but that is the risk they are taking with the purchase of this.

 

As far as learning the game, they will do it the same way everybody else does. They still have to follow the arrow, watch the distance count down and search for the cache. At least that's how I learned the game.

 

Most of the angst I see here is over a potential sudden influx of novices, but that's been an issue since automotive units became popular, the month after Christmas and every time geocaching is featured in the media.

 

Agreed! But what kid 6 years an up is technologically impaired these days? They know more about toys like this than most grownups!

 

There are a lot of technologically challenged adults. You know, the ones whose VCR clock has been flashing since the day they hooked it up. This device is tailor made for them.

Edited May 17, 2009 by briansnat

[knowschad]

In my experience, this "caching with kids" thing is way overblown. Even the "caching is a family activity" doesn't fit with what I see with my own eyes. Sure, I know of some exceptions, but I'd guess that 85% or more of the cachers in my area are at least 50 years old. I know a few families that have tried caching with their kids or grandchildren, but generally it doesn't work out very well, or for long.

 

As for it being an inexpensive entry device, that means that if they find that they like the activity, that $100 eTrex ends up costing them $169 (well, maybe $159 after the Kiddy GPS sells at their next garage sale)

 

I got my sister and her kids hooked, but then she has VERY stricked selfimposed rules on which caches she goes for...

 

No multi's they get board . No hard finds/ micros (wheres the treasure) the larger the box the better. She will also choose the walk to suit how long they have/ tired they are etc.

 

She finds it a great excuse to get the kids out looking for treausre. The idea of doing more than 2 in one day is appauling to her ... Yet they have great fun and her children see me and think caching, I see them and think its going to be a long day to do a couple of easy trads!

 

I think that's great! But let her take her family to a caching event and see just how many other kids are there for hers to play with. My point is that this may be marketed as a family with kids activity, but on the whole, reality is quite the opposite.

[+solo63137]

 

[+Viajero Perdido]

Hmm. When this 250,000-cache data file leaks out on to the internet, I'm sure it'll either be in Garmin POI format, or will be about 15 minutes later.

 

Can you imagine the road-trip convenience of loading all this into a fully-featured regular Garmin unit? Long road trips can be a real pain with regular PQs.

 

I can see people dropping their premium memberships because they no longer feel the need for fussy old PQs.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Hmm. When this 250,000-cache data file leaks out on to the internet, I'm sure it'll either be in Garmin POI format, or will be about 15 minutes later.

 

Can you imagine the road-trip convenience of loading all this into a fully-featured regular Garmin unit? Long road trips can be a real pain with regular PQs.

 

I can see people dropping their premium memberships because they no longer feel the need for fussy old PQs.

I thought about that possibility, but this has such limited info about the cache in the data record that it would be like going back to the eTrex Yellow I started with... of course I found 500+ with that device, so it is possible!

[CoyoteRed]

You know, I'm probably late in the game, but I just thought of something. If this is a new marketing strategy for Groundspeak, then it opens a whole new world of possibilities. Why couldn't Garmin, Magellan, and Delorme do the exact same thing? The first to market with a Geocaching specific unit could make a huge advance. All they would need to do it is offer a POI file similar to that installed in the Playskool unit. It could be pre-installed on the SD card that comes with the unit. A quick start card would be included basically saying (for instance of Garmin 60 series), "Insert batteries, go outside, press power button, wait until unit says it has satellites, press FIND, select GEOCACHES, select a geocache, go have fun!"

 

Same concept, only you're getting a GPS you're not likely to outgrow nearly as quick.

 

For that matter, POI files of geocaches could be sold in various formats. I just exported about 5000 caches into a Garmin POI and it was just a little over 1Mb. 250K caches would be around 50Mb. That's uncompressed. For transport, it would be about a third of that size.

 

As close as Garmin is to geocaching I'm surprised they haven't done something like this already. The pre-installed POI file for geocaches would be just a "in case you might be interested" sort of thing like the several Gigs of crap that comes pre-installed on every computer you buy. On that quick start card, it could say something to the effect, "if you like what you see then visit to learn more!"

[+Tequila]

Here's a custom PQ on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.com/Geocache-Pocket-Query-...=item4a97afc7f6

 

Now you can receive single POCKET QUERIES of the caches within 100 miles of your ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATE with the purchase of a single POCKET QUERY that will likely last for months! Pocket Queries allow you to get a subset of caches e-mailed directly to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU PROVIDE and will contain all of the caches wthin 100 miles of the ZIP CODE or the GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. These can be printed or downloaded into various free and EASY GPS or other software (Googe: FREE GPS SOFTWARE). These computer files can then be loaded directly into your GPS via a connecting cable. The file you receive WILL BE compressed (ZIPPED) to minimize bandwidth and prevent corruption. What you provide: Payment of $3.00 (PayPal ONLY!) The ZIP CODE or GPS COORDINATES where you want the PQ centered. The EMAIL ADDRESS where you want to receive the PQ. What you get: You will receive a PQ containing the following: ALL caches listed within 100 miles of the center of the ZIP code or GPS COORDINATES YOU PROVIDE. ALL caches which are available (ACTIVE) to ALL users. ALL containers ALL sizes ALL terrains and difficulty ratings There is no limit on the number of PQ's you may bid on. The PQ will be sent to you at the EMAIL ADDRESS YOU SPECIFY (please type carefully) at NO CHARGE! Buy them as a gift for your favorite cacher! THERE IS NO FEE FOR SHIPPING/HANDLING! Due to the nature of the data there is are NO REFUNDS or RETURNS on this item!

 

So, how long before the Geomate's 250,000 cache listings will be for sale or trade online?

 

The ebay listing violates terms of use as specified here:

http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/agreement.aspx

and has been reported to ebay officials.

 

Did you stop to think that it might be Groundspeak offering the PQ on eBay?????

[CoyoteRed]

I can see people dropping their premium memberships because they no longer feel the need for fussy old PQs.

Only if Groundspeak fails to keep up. Getting the data from the Groundspeak servers to the consumer's GPS unit could be a lot more transparent.

[+Kabuthunk]

Man, reading through this topic... I gotta say, my mind is going against crowd it seems.

 

I think it's a perfectly fine idea for a product. I've noticed in my logbooks that several people in the past have found my cache, but didn't log it online... I'm fine with that.

 

And what makes people think that the second people buy this, they're going to have like... a 2% find rate (exaggeration, obviously). Most of the caches around here last for YEARS. Hell, going through my find list, 75% of all of those caches are still active. Over 3 years.

 

If updates come every say... 6 months, looking at my list... only a SINGLE CACHE is disabled (and actually that was just a note for having been in a group, since I first found it years ago, but I'm still counting it in the percentage here). Albeit that's only amongst 53 finds in that period, but that's still only 1.8%. Stretch that out to 1-year updates, in the about 150 caches I've found, 10 are archived. Ok, so we're up to 7% archive rate. So every 16 caches about, there's one that's not there. I'd say that's a pretty frickin' good rate still! And Geocaching.com would only need to create one PQ every year (or two a year, if updating every 6 months) to achieve that. That single PQ is housed... wherever, probably on geomate's site is my guess... is the only work Groundspeak needs to do.

 

Yes, I'm sure it's higher or lower in some areas, but the point is that it's still not an insane number like 50% or something.

 

And being stolen? You have the exact same odds of it being stolen from someone creating a FREE account! People are buying this to find caches, not steal. If they wanted to steal, they'd just create a FREE account and use google maps or whatever (how I found my first 10 caches), and not pay anything ever. The fact that they're BUYING this device means they WANT to have fun.

 

So for everyone who doesn't want others finding your cache if they (might) not log it online... take a breather.

 

In short... I think it's an awesome idea, and as others have said will likely be moreso for families getting a GPS for their son/daughter who always wants to hold the GPS when caching with the family.

[+DanOCan]

Reading this thread four words come to mind: "Tempest, Teapot, Mountain, Molehill".

 

Do people really think that creating a free account on this website suddenly makes a person into a wonderful Geocacher, full of ethics, common sense, respect for private property, and who always trades up?

 

Do people really think young children will suddenly be able to break free from the bonds of their helicopter parents and wander around with this thing trashing every cache in the neighborhood?

 

When I first heard of this device my first thought was "This would be a great gift for my mother. It is simple, it gives her a list of the types of caches she likes to do and it is cheap." If they include Canada before Christmas my gift buying is done!

 

Guess what? She'll be the exact same type of cacher with one of these units that she would be with an adult unit.

 

What about additional waypoints and important information on the cache page? Well, hate to break it to you, but people have been successfully caching without that information since the beginning. Do you think I'm not going to try and scale a cliff because you had a warning on your page? No, I am not going to scale a cliff because I have common sense and know my limits. Would that change if I bought a kids GPSr instead of an Oregon? No.

[+PhxChem]

In my experience, this "caching with kids" thing is way overblown. Even the "caching is a family activity" doesn't fit with what I see with my own eyes. Sure, I know of some exceptions, but I'd guess that 85% or more of the cachers in my area are at least 50 years old. I know a few families that have tried caching with their kids or grandchildren, but generally it doesn't work out very well, or for long.

 

 

What do you mean "overblown?" It happens. No really it does. People have kids...and they go geocaching with them. In my area (things can be very area-dependant) there are plenty of fellow geocaching families. It is a segment that exists. Or, maybe it's just easy to recognize others who fit the same geocaching mold? IF someone is a 50+ geocacher....maybe you see other who are also. Whether or not I am in the majority of geocachers doesn't dictate how I play the game.

 

And end the end, I'm not sure it dictates the viability of this device.

 

Some see younger/novice geocachers as the future, others see them as trouble-makers looking to trash caches.

[CoyoteRed]

...others see them as trouble-makers looking to trash caches.

Speaking of which. This device would put a whole new wrinkle in dealing with a maggot. It wouldn't really matter if the person is known. There's no gc.com account to ban. The maggot could continue until every cache listed on the device is moved or archived.

 

I doubt someone would go out and buy one of these for this express reason. It wouldn't really matter how they came into possession of it. Could be Mom bought Little Brother one and then lost interest. How cheap do you think they will be on eBay?

 

For the maggot it's like an anonymous pre-paid cellphone.

[+BadAndy]

Took my Geomate flyfishing with me today and managed to find a few caches along the river. It definitely puts an "Old School" spin on caching but I don't think thats a bad thing.

 

No dnf's and all quality caches. Word.

[+solo63137]

Took my Geomate flyfishing with me today and managed to find a few caches along the river. It definitely puts an "Old School" spin on caching but I don't think thats a bad thing.

 

No dnf's and all quality caches. Word.

 

But did you log propper entries into said caches???

[+BadAndy]

Took my Geomate flyfishing with me today and managed to find a few caches along the river. It definitely puts an "Old School" spin on caching but I don't think thats a bad thing.

 

No dnf's and all quality caches. Word.

 

But did you log propper entries into said caches???

 

I signed my name into the logbooks, traded fairly and left a pencil stub where it was needed. I also cito'd a starbucks cup and happy meal leftovers and even posted a note on the cache page.

 

Whether my logs are "proper" or not is up for debate.

 

I really like the simplicity of this device. Also the fact that all I had to do was drop it into my pocket and I'm ready to go saved me time and effort on my way out of the house this morning. When I returned, my geomate gave me a list of caches that I found today making it real simple to keep track. Far more efficient than a yellow etrex and way less effort and prep than with any handheld I've tried before.

[+solo63137]

Took my Geomate flyfishing with me today and managed to find a few caches along the river. It definitely puts an "Old School" spin on caching but I don't think thats a bad thing.

 

No dnf's and all quality caches. Word.

 

But did you log propper entries into said caches???

 

I signed my name into the logbooks, traded fairly and left a pencil stub where it was needed. I also cito'd a starbucks cup and happy meal leftovers and even posted a note on the cache page.

 

Whether my logs are "proper" or not is up for debate.

 

I really like the simplicity of this device. Also the fact that all I had to do was drop it into my pocket and I'm ready to go saved me time and effort on my way out of the house this morning. When I returned, my geomate gave me a list of caches that I found today making it real simple to keep track. Far more efficient than a yellow etrex and way less effort and prep than with any handheld I've tried before.

 

Terrific...

 

And See everyone no Caches were stolen, destroyed or hurt in the making of this film either...

 

I was really just joking about the propper logging...

 

Glad you had fun with the new toy...

 

I myself did not get to cache at all this weekend... Wife and a few other folks had other plans for me... Woulda been a decent weekend for it here too

Edited May 18, 2009 by solo63137

[+Kabuthunk]

Excellent! First-hand posting from someone who's used the device and tells us that it doesn't arbitrarily destroy the entirity of geocaching! Shock and amaze!

 

This topic in general reminds me of the current Swine flu (or SARS, or the avian flu, or hell, pick anything from the last few years of media-caused panic). Something different shows up. OH MY GOD, THE APOCALYPSE IS UPON US! People blow it way the hell out of proportion, and suddenly anyone who mentions it is satan incarnate.

 

Know what this device will change about geocaching for the rest of us who DON'T have it? Absolutely nothing. And from what I've seen in this topic, that's exactly the result that people want.

[+Jollylolly]

And See everyone no Caches were stolen, destroyed or hurt in the making of this film either..

 

Excellent! First-hand posting from someone who's used the device and tells us that it doesn't arbitrarily destroy the entirity of geocaching! Shock and amaze!

 

For me, and I think many others who have added to the pandemic nature of this thread, the issue is not about the trashing of caches, well not only about the trashing of caches, but about the potential lack of control over the up and coming geocaching community.

 

Anyone ever bought a new computer? I did once, and had to register the software. Sure I could have gone ahead and bought a used one off eBay, with "active" software, and used it "illegally", but by registering it, TPTB assumed I had read the RULES (EULA), which, when I got my first one at least, I did. Now, I can access most any web site on the net (Unless there's a puzzle solution required to enter, or it has multiple steps to get there, or people have to have paid a membership to access it), go to all kinds of "socially unacceptable" sites, get up to all sorts of mischief, etc, but because I read the EULA, I am less likely to do those things. Why?... Because I know "about" the rules which explain the consequences, and I know I could have my internet access discontinued if I overstep the line.

 

It's my guess those who have bought one of these units and posted in this thread, are seasoned cachers (BadAndy, nearing 1000 finds since 2003) who read the rules when they got their first GPS, probably carry copies of the "GeoCachers Creed" around with them, and go to GeoCaching events. At which, by the way, I don't think we'll be seeing any Noobie GeoMate users, because they won't have been preloaded so how will they get to meet said seasoned cachers? My bet is we won't be seeing any "new" GeoMate cachers joining in this discussion. Why? Because they won't have registered or read any EULA, or had to "buy in" to anything.

 

Just having the new owners have to "enable" their new toys by registering, by just becoming a "regular" member means they will have to have said (at least) they read the "General rules".

 

With modern technology costing less and less everyday, GeoMate Jr being a prime example. I don't believe it is too much to ask that these new GeoMate owners have to register and get these 250000 caches "enabled", so to speak. I think that would have a lot of us being less vociferous, and perhaps even wanting to get one ourselves.

 

I'll hangup and listen to the response, Thank You!!

[knowschad]

Excellent! First-hand posting from someone who's used the device and tells us that it doesn't arbitrarily destroy the entirity of geocaching! Shock and amaze!

 

The device itself is not the problem, Kabutunk. The problem (or potential problem) is the users of that device. Bad Andy is a Premium member thats been caching since 2003 and has well over 700 finds to his name. I'd expect him to be responsible.

[+Viajero Perdido]

There are several issues at play here.

 

Doesn't it bother anybody that they're taking your name off your handiwork?

[knowschad]

In my experience, this "caching with kids" thing is way overblown. Even the "caching is a family activity" doesn't fit with what I see with my own eyes. Sure, I know of some exceptions, but I'd guess that 85% or more of the cachers in my area are at least 50 years old. I know a few families that have tried caching with their kids or grandchildren, but generally it doesn't work out very well, or for long.

 

As for it being an inexpensive entry device, that means that if they find that they like the activity, that $100 eTrex ends up costing them $169 (well, maybe $159 after the Kiddy GPS sells at their next garage sale)

 

I got my sister and her kids hooked, but then she has VERY stricked selfimposed rules on which caches she goes for...

 

No multi's they get board . No hard finds/ micros (wheres the treasure) the larger the box the better. She will also choose the walk to suit how long they have/ tired they are etc.

 

She finds it a great excuse to get the kids out looking for treausre. The idea of doing more than 2 in one day is appauling to her ... Yet they have great fun and her children see me and think caching, I see them and think its going to be a long day to do a couple of easy trads!

 

I think that's great! But let her take her family to a caching event and see just how many other kids are there for hers to play with. My point is that this may be marketed as a family with kids activity, but on the whole, reality is quite the opposite.

 

Might be a good time to link to this thread

[knowschad]

 

 

Cute , but this horse is still far from dead.

[+BadAndy]

Here is my simplistic take on the whole ordeal of cache safety and newbies.

 

There are two kinds of people.

 

1. Those who would trash or steal something.

 

2. Everybody else.

 

The Geomate is for sale at 2 places. Groundspeak and REI.

 

If someone buys a Geomate from Groundspeak they'll also check out geocaching on the website. Problem solved.

 

The documentation in the package is sparse enough that REI shoppers would also most likely visit the website.

 

Like the vast majority of us, it doesn't take many finds before you want to hide one of your own. Website visit and registration required. Problem solved.

 

The only potential troublemakers left are those who purchased a unit from REI, cannot log into the website and fit into category 1 above. Everyone else would have already been on the website checking things out.

 

I think thats a pretty small demographic.

[knowschad]

Here is my simplistic take on the whole ordeal of cache safety and newbies.

 

There are two kinds of people.

 

1. Those who would trash or steal something.

 

2. Everybody else.

 

The Geomate is for sale at 2 places. Groundspeak and REI.

 

If someone buys a Geomate from Groundspeak they'll also check out geocaching on the website. Problem solved.

 

The documentation in the package is sparse enough that REI shoppers would also most likely visit the website.

 

Like the vast majority of us, it doesn't take many finds before you want to hide one of your own. Website visit and registration required. Problem solved.

 

The only potential troublemakers left are those who purchased a unit from REI, cannot log into the website and fit into category 1 above. Everyone else would have already been on the website checking things out.

 

I think thats a pretty small demographic.

 

I still don't approve. They (Groundspeak) took caches that I (presumably) hid at my own expense and under a certain understanding, sold them to a third party, and breached that understanding. Even if not one single cache gets muggled, not one single coin or travel bug goes missing, even if no trash gets CITO'd by those that purchase the Kiddy GPS, those facts still stand! This is, in my opinion, a breach of contract!!

[+solo63137]

There are several issues at play here.

 

Doesn't it bother anybody that they're taking your name off your handiwork?

 

Not really... Or not in my point of view..

 

They are just selling a prepackaged pack of Cords to all the sites...

 

Not much different than what anyone can already download off the site...

 

The cache page will still have the placers name on it, unless you know of some plot to rename them and lock the placer out...

 

Maybe a few playskool cache finders won't need to hit the site, there for won't know you hid the cache... D@mn...

 

I don't know about you, but this is not going to stop me from hiding a few and finding (hopefully) a whole lot more caches and having a whole lot of fun...