Wonder if Groundspeak knows about this

[+Tequila]

http://geomatejr.com/products

 

Preloaded with 250,000 caches???

[+mcrow]

I would hope so since the company lists them as a "partner".

[+wiseye]

I WONDER HOW THEY WOULD KEEP THE CACHE LISTING UP TO DATE?

Looks like alot of potential DNF's and disappointed kids.

[+mcrow]

I WONDER HOW THEY WOULD KEEP THE CACHE LISTING UP TO DATE?

Looks like alot of potential DNF's and disappointed kids.

Yup, unless you have the cable you could be looking for a lot of inactive caches.

[knowschad]

They stole my idea!!!

 

[+Viajero Perdido]

Oh good - it appears to only include caches in the US. Mine are safe for now.

 

I put my caches out there for people who join the game. Right now that means, at a minimum, creating an account. It's a low barrier, I'll admit, but it might foster a sense of buy-in to the concepts, ethics, etc.

 

I wonder if all the people who hide caches in the US know about this?

[+BlueDeuce]

Did you know...

That if you hold both buttons down, you can store a position?

You can then navigate back to that point later on. Great for finding your way home...

 

For a kid's toy that stuck me as funny.

 

"Gee Billy, I think we're lost."

 

"Me too Tommy, did you remember to Mark Home with your Geomate Jr?"

 

"My parents won't buy me a Geomate Jr. They said I don't need one."

 

"Now we'll never make it home!"

 

"Let's ask that guy in the van for a ride."

[+zoeythedog]

Saw the press release on this and went to their website. I have mixed feelings on this thing. First, I like the idea of an "appliance" type product for GCing. I heloed a friend get set up in GC with selecting a GPS and getting waypoints and realized there's a lot of moving parts to getting started. But I wonder how useful this thing is if you can't update it easily and frequently. I also fret about sending people out without some of the details available (description, hints, recent logs, etc.). I think having the ability to update automatically via Wi-fi would be great but probably drives the cost through the roof.

 

I'll be interested to see how this thing works out.

[+wkmccall]

I WONDER HOW THEY WOULD KEEP THE CACHE LISTING UP TO DATE?

Looks like alot of potential DNF's and disappointed kids.

 

Well,,, if you purchase the "Update Kit" that is "Coming Soon", you can update the caches on the unit.

 

(it's being discussed in another thread)...

[+solo63137]

Wow, You guys cracked me up on this....

 

I had heard about this before and wondered what kind of disapointment someone was going to have instore for them if they actually bought one of these...

 

I wondered about its quality, tracking accuracy and the accuracy of the info in it...

 

The Playskool Geocachemate jr. is too funny!!! I'm gonna have to print that out and pin it on my cubicle wall or something...

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Saw the press release on this and went to their website. I have mixed feelings on this thing. First, I like the idea of an "appliance" type product for GCing. I heloed a friend get set up in GC with selecting a GPS and getting waypoints and realized there's a lot of moving parts to getting started. But I wonder how useful this thing is if you can't update it easily and frequently. I also fret about sending people out without some of the details available (description, hints, recent logs, etc.). I think having the ability to update automatically via Wi-fi would be great but probably drives the cost through the roof.

 

I'll be interested to see how this thing works out.

Read the FAQ, everything you mention is addressed.

 

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members? This would be great for travelers.

 

And, it only downloads 'Traditional' caches... it doesn’t include mystery, multi, or puzzle caches - does this reflect a future move by Groundspeak away from supporting other cache types?

 

Lastly, at $69.95 PLUS the cable aren't there better price-competitive entry-level or basic GPS already on the market that aren't so 'dumbed-down'?

[+sbell111]

Wonder if Groundspeak knows about this

Given that you can buy one at Shop.Groundspeak.com, I bet they are aware of it.

[knowschad]

Did you know...

That if you hold both buttons down, you can store a position?

You can then navigate back to that point later on. Great for finding your way home...

 

For a kid's toy that stuck me as funny.

 

"Gee Billy, I think we're lost."

 

"Me too Tommy, did you remember to Mark Home with your Geomate Jr?"

 

"My parents won't buy me a Geomate Jr. They said I don't need one."

 

"Now we'll never make it home!"

 

"Let's ask that guy in the van for a ride."

 

"Gee, Tommy... it looks like a swell day to go and muggle some caches using your new Geomate Jr."

[+Viajero Perdido]

"You mean, if I buy/steal this thing, I can get ammo boxes for free? KEWL!"

[+Tequila]

Looks like Garmin found a use for their Colorado's after all.

[+Team-Bee]

I think it's awesome and if you GC with little kids, this is much easier for them to use. I'm definately going to buy one for my kids!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Looks like Garmin found a use for their Colorado's after all.

The Garmin Colorado 400T is now down to $280 at Best Buy, so your comment may soon be true!

[+legacypac]

 

And, it only downloads 'Traditional' caches... it doesn’t include mystery, multi, or puzzle caches - does this reflect a future move by Groundspeak away from supporting other cache types?

 

What good would giving Jr only the fake coords to a puzzle do? Ditto for multi's as they often start with a virtual stage.

[+pigpen4x4]

Looks like Garmin found a use for their Colorado's after all.

Now THAT'S funny!

[knowschad]

Looks like Garmin found a use for their Colorado's after all.

The Garmin Colorado 400T is now down to $280 at Best Buy, so your comment may soon be true!

 

I'm waiting until I can get one for opening a new checking account at my bank. Should be coming soon.

[Clan Riffster]

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members?

While I'm no expert, marketing logic suggests the company that made this POS paid Groundspeak what TPTB felt was a reasonable fee for the service. This cost has probably been absorbed into the price of the unit. I'd bet if you'd contact Jeremy, offering him heaps of crinkly green paper with the images of dead Presidents on them, he might be willing to offer you an increase in your PQ allowance.

[+KoosKoos]

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members?

While I'm no expert, marketing logic suggests the company that made this POS paid Groundspeak what TPTB felt was a reasonable fee for the service. This cost has probably been absorbed into the price of the unit. I'd bet if you'd contact Jeremy, offering him heaps of crinkly green paper with the images of dead Presidents on them, he might be willing to offer you an increase in your PQ allowance.

 

Wow...I want an "update" kit for my GPSr! So all those premium members who offered to pay for a higher service to get bigger PQs weren't enough crinkly?

 

Always have the latest and greatest nation- wide cache list.

 

Get every possible cache for any given region.

 

Vacationing in Germany? Then get the cache list for Germany, or England, or Australia...

[+DavidMac]

If customers of this product can get a 250,000 cache download (PQ) why can't we Premium Members?

While I'm no expert, marketing logic suggests the company that made this POS paid Groundspeak what TPTB felt was a reasonable fee for the service. This cost has probably been absorbed into the price of the unit. I'd bet if you'd contact Jeremy, offering him heaps of crinkly green paper with the images of dead Presidents on them, he might be willing to offer you an increase in your PQ allowance.

 

You could already do this, at least in theory, by registering multiple accounts with multiple premium memberships. With 100 memberships you could run up to 500 queries in one day, and get 250,000 caches. I'm sure Groundspeak wouldn't mind the $3,000 per year you'd be paying for this service.

 

Obviously I'm kidding...

[+Team-Bee]

I don't understand why people seem so upset? I think it's a great idea, and I know my kids will enjoy it because it looks easy for them to understand, plus I won't freak out if they drop it:)

[+sTeamTraen]

I don't think you'll find that the unit contains all the caches, or even all the traditional caches, for a given area. If I were Groundspeak I'd select classes of caches which are likely to appeal to kids and also which have a higher than average chance of staying in place. The attrition statistics are quite different for, say, "brand-new urban micros" and "well-established ammo boxes".

 

When you make successful product A which customers love, it's hard for those customers to look objectively at product B. Imperfect analogy alert: I would bet than when Coca-Cola launched Diet Coke, a very large number of Coke drinkers turned their nose up at it. But they weren't the target market. (When Coca-Cola changed the taste of Coke, the existing Coke drinkers *were* the target market, and they didn't like it.)

 

I also have some concerns as to what might happen if half a million people buy this unit: how will they treat trackables, how will the game look if the number of people who don't log online goes from 2% to 25%, how will cache placers feel about a large number of people seeking whose GPSr doesn't even let them place a cache (I could be wrong but I doubt if the one waypoint which you can save, displays its coordinates), and others. But I doubt if the sky will fall. (And as always, don't forget that what for us is just a hobby, is paying rent and mortgages and kids' college funds for the people at Groundspeak.)

 

And for the people complaining about the "giant PQ" thing: Firstly, this unit only gets you coordinates and D/T; no description, no logs. Secondly, even if it were a PQ, it would be a PQ of caches selected by Groundspeak. Do you want all the traditional caches in Alaska, Maine, and Florida? Probably not. From that point of view, it's excellent marketing: another way to leverage the main asset (the cache database) in a way which does not significantly impact the existing customer base. Compare it to the Early Bird special at your local restaurant: some folks get to eat cheaper than you, but they have to do it at 5pm.

Edited May 12, 2009 by sTeamTraen

[+Tequila]

I find it very interesting. All the apologist's that argue against those of us who maintain an offline database, instantly use the reasons "your offline database is obsolete instantly because of archiving etc." and "Groundspeak wants you to visit the web page to get the latest information".

 

This concept flies in the face of both of those arguments. Even with selective caches, the data is going to be stale. In my area at least 20 - 30 caches are archived weekly, within a range of 150 km, and many of those are older caches. I agree an older traditional in the forest survives better but there is no guarantee.

 

And how much time could Groundspeak actually put into vetting the data?? My guess is that it was nothing more than a glorified PQ to get caches in popular sales areas. There is no way they looked at 250,000 caches in any detail.

[Clan Riffster]

I think that, had they developed a product that the end user could input to, they'd be more succesful.

For instance; assume for argument sake that I don't trust my rugrats to carry my Garmin Oregon. (an incorrect assumption, but let's run with it)

I could buy this POS and plug it into my desktop, getting a set of active, regional caches with a target D/T rating.

That would help me. That would help my kids find caches.

Getting a cheap imitation device, with limited capabilities, loaded with questionably active caches, scattered across the globe, would not.

[+sTeamTraen]

I think that, had they developed a product that the end user could input to, they'd be more succesful.

...

That would help me. That would help my kids find caches.

Getting a cheap imitation device, with limited capabilities, loaded with questionably active caches, scattered across the globe, would not.

But you already have a GPSr. And you can buy a yellow Etrex for $100 or so and do all that. And you know what "download" means.

 

This product is presumably aimed at people who don't know, or want to know, things like how to download a .LOC file, plug in a USB or serial cable and install a driver from a CD, download and install GSAK, get the Garmin Communicator plugin working, or even create a Geocaching.com account ("I hear these Internet companies all sell your address to telemarketers, even though they say they won't"). People whose model for buying a product is to walk into a shop, buy it, and use it, like a toaster. Moms whose kids heard about geocaching and are pestering them to try it, but don't want to learn how to work the web site. Grandparents who don't have Internet access and want to be able to spend a fairly small amount of money on a gift that will let the grandkids go geocaching within 5 minutes of opening the package.

[Clan Riffster]

I agree there's a market there. I'm just not in it. Mostly for the reasons you cited.

I'm just saying they might find a more productive market had they followed a more standard path.

Again, I'm no marketing expert. This thing may make someone very rich.

If so, I wish them well.

[+Tequila]

I wonder how they filtered out traditional caches that require a 10 km hike on level ground. It could be a 1.5/1.5 under the generally accepted rating guidelines.

 

Can't imagine many kids wanting to hike 10 km to find a tupperware.

[+StarBrand]

I find it very interesting. All the apologist's that argue against those of us who maintain an offline database, instantly use the reasons "your offline database is obsolete instantly because of archiving etc." and "Groundspeak wants you to visit the web page to get the latest information".

 

This concept flies in the face of both of those arguments. Even with selective caches, the data is going to be stale. In my area at least 20 - 30 caches are archived weekly, within a range of 150 km, and many of those are older caches. I agree an older traditional in the forest survives better but there is no guarantee.

....

I know you probably consider me one of the "apologists" - and yet I totally agree with your point here. The whole concept seems to fly in the face of the fresh data issues.

 

Seems the "update" option needs to be mandatory with some oversimplified update service that needs to be used weekly.

[+Tequila]

Deleted: Changed my mind.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Tequila

[+Tequila]

From the press release:

 

Apisphere has also formed a licensing, distribution, and co-marketing partnership with Groundspeak, Inc., the Seattle-based company that launched geocaching.com and is largely responsible for developing the geocaching phenomenon into what it is today. Groundspeak and Apisphere believe that Geomate.jr will extend the existing geocaching community and allow millions more to enjoy the benefits of this activity.

 

“There’s nothing else like Geomate.jr on the market today,” said Jeremy Irish, co-founder and CEO of Groundspeak, Inc. “The device has the perfect combination of design, simplicity, and functionality that makes it suitable for every member of the family and that’s what we want; the ability for everyone to enjoy the activity of geocaching together.”

[+Prime Suspect]

 

And, it only downloads 'Traditional' caches... it doesn’t include mystery, multi, or puzzle caches - does this reflect a future move by Groundspeak away from supporting other cache types?

No, it reflects the fact that the unit doesn't support manual entry of waypoints. Kinda hard to do multis and most puzzles without that, eh?

[Keystone]

See this page about Geomate.jr, which is now linked from the Geocaching.com homepage.

 

Also, I added a topic subtitle to let folks know that this thread is about the new Geomate.jr product.

[+Tequila]

I sure hope they fix all the problems with the current website before those "millions more" start using it.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Tequila

[+Inmountains]

I sense a touch of "elitism" from some of the posters on here! It is the same feeling I get when I get together with a group of folks with 1,000 plus finds. SHAME ON YOU! Geocaching is NOT about how many finds you have! Geocaching is not about who has the most expensive GPSr unit. Geocaching is about getting out with family and friends, and having a good time! Caches get muggled, TBs get stolen and people whine about it.

 

I live in a county where the average income per couple is less than $40,000 a year, IF both are working. There is no way they could fork out a couple of hundred bucks for a used GPS unit. But if they can get a unit for $70.00, which they would have to save up for, and it allows them to get out and have some inexpensive fun, GREAT. They can't buy a boat, or an ATV or even mountain bikes.

 

My first computer was an IBM PC XT, 640K RAM, 20 MB Hard drive, monochrome screen and I paid $5,000.00 for it. Today, my Blackberry which cost me $60.00, does more, holds more and processes faster. GPSr units will come down in price and become easier and easier to use. This is an example of hitting the children's market.

 

I WELCOME ALL NEW GEOCACHERS!

[+Stunod]

I wonder how they filtered out traditional caches that require a 10 km hike on level ground. It could be a 1.5/1.5 under the generally accepted rating guidelines.

 

Can't imagine many kids wanting to hike 10 km to find a tupperware.

 

A 10 km hike will get you at least a 3 terrain according to the generally accepted rating guidelines

[Clan Riffster]

I sense a touch of "elitism" from some of the posters on here!

Do tell? What particular comments would you consider as elitist?

Has anyone suggested folks should only play this game with the latest, greatest high tech gadget?

If so, maybe I missed it. Could you show that to me? Thanx!

Heck, there are folks here who play this game with just a map and a compass!

From my perspective, that's just impressive as heck. My orienteering skills are not nearly high enough to pull that off.

 

my Blackberry which cost me $60.00, does more

Sorry. I can't afford a Blackberry. You're not being elitist, are you?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm not against it, just had some questions... probably the only relevant one being how often a subscriber to this service can connect and update the 250k listings. Unless there's something I am missing this data will be out of date every few days and the DNF rate will drive users to toss it.

 

With new caches being created all the time, an optional update kit (sold separately) allows you to add all the newest caches to the Geomate.jr database. (Available June 2009)

 

And cost? Assuming that these users will sign up for a free geocaching.com account I wonder what the fees associated with the geomate.jr update kit will be?

 

I have no issue with the simplicity of it; back in the dark ages my first 500+ finds were with a $25. eTrex Yellow that wasn't much more advanced than this device... it took you to the coords and you were on your own from there. Maybe, as mentioned in an earlier post, they'll come out with a matching PDA for kids so they can have cache descriptions! Paperless caching... what a concept!

 

I think the biggest money is going to be made by Garmin or Magellan when they offer a trade-in program to get a discount on a 'real' GPS if users of this device decide to stay in the game.

 

The good folks at Groundspeak are obviously better businessmen than I, since I am paying them instead of the opposite, but I see a good opportunity for the Law of Unintended Consequences to cause a backfire here, with stale data and no cache description the DNF rate is likely to drive more folks away from the game than it attracts.

Edited May 13, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Harriet the Spy]

I wonder if there is a way to find out if any of my caches are pre loaded into the geomate.jr without buying one.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I wonder if there is a way to find out if any of my caches are pre loaded into the geomate.jr without buying one.

I have no clue how caches will be selected, but you can bet it's by some automated criteria search, they won't have humans choosing them.

[+Knight2000]

I don't understand why people seem so upset? I think it's a great idea, and I know my kids will enjoy it because it looks easy for them to understand, plus I won't freak out if they drop it:)

I don't know much about it but it looks to encourage (or enable) ignoring the geocaching web site. Seems to me that finds won't be logged and many caches will be pillaged or muggled.

[+sTeamTraen]

The good folks at Groundspeak are obviously better businessmen than I, since I am paying them instead of the opposite, but I see a good opportunity for the Law of Unintended Consequences to cause a backfire here, with stale data and no cache description the DNF rate is likely to drive more folks away from the game than it attracts.

I guess their assumption is that if 100 people buy the unit of whom 82 otherwise wouldn't have started geocaching, if 10 give up after a month because of the DNF rate, that's 72 extra people. Not knowing the business model, we can only speculate as to whether those 72 will be larger or smaller net contributors to Groundspeak's bottom line than the 18 "proper GPS" members might have been. If they aren't logging online then they aren't paying $30 for a PM and they aren't watching Mr. Google's exciting messages; on the other hand, they aren't filling up the image server with terabytes of pictures of tupperware boxes either.

 

I think that if the caches are selected so that the "MIA" rate is below, say, 10% a year, most people will be reasonably happy. DNFs are part of the game (although, like trackable items, they don't feature in the videos on the Geomate.jr site).

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm not against it, just had some questions... probably the only relevant one being how often a subscriber to this service can connect and update the 250k listings. Unless there's something I am missing this data will be out of date every few days and the DNF rate will drive users to toss it.

 

 

I haven't seen this device so I have no idea how it works. However, I got a product called a Smart Globe for my son for Christmas. It uses a "pen" which can be touched on the globe to provide a wide variety of information about the location selected on the globe, including "recent events". It came pre-loaded with lots of data, but also has a USB cable to connect the pen to a computer. Updated data can be downloaded to the pen (via an application) from a web site. I suspect that the this kids GPS could or does work the same way. It's really not much different than connecting a "real" GPS to download waypoints except the end user doesn't select what waypoints are downloaded. Since the subscriber probably has to register with some system first it would know the users zipcode and could create a basic PQ around that.

 

Although I have numerous PQs set up to refresh waypoint information that I manage using GSAK I only upload waypoints to my GPS about once a week, sometimes less frequently. Typically I only refresh the waypoints (by deleting all geocaches, then sending waypoints from GSAK) the day before or just before I go out caching.

[knowschad]

Seems to me that finds won't be logged and many caches will be pillaged or muggled.

 

I wonder if it will have Premium Members-only caches preloaded (or will it be able to download them with the update feature?) If not, I foresee a large movement of PMO caches in the near future. Perhaps we should push for a "Not available to Geomate.jr " option for our caches.

 

I'm still working out how I feel about this device, but my early feelings are that I'm not very happy about it. If Groundspeak used their own time & money to put out the caches listed on the Geomate.jr, that would be one thing. But they didn't... we did, and we're certainly not getting any kickback from the product.

[+sbell111]

I'm not against it, just had some questions... probably the only relevant one being how often a subscriber to this service can connect and update the 250k listings. Unless there's something I am missing this data will be out of date every few days and the DNF rate will drive users to toss it.

With new caches being created all the time, an optional update kit (sold separately) allows you to add all the newest caches to the Geomate.jr database. (Available June 2009)

And cost? Assuming that these users will sign up for a free geocaching.com account I wonder what the fees associated with the geomate.jr update kit will be?

As I recall, the price that I saw yesterday for the update kit was something like $34. I don't know if part of this amount would go to Groundspeak to allow access to the data, or if that would be a separate cost. I assume the former.

I have no issue with the simplicity of it; back in the dark ages my first 500+ finds were with a $25. eTrex Yellow that wasn't much more advanced than this device... it took you to the coords and you were on your own from there.

Isn't that what all GPSr's do? They lead you to ground zero. The rest is up to you.

 

Also, it should be noted, that this little guy uses a SirfIII chip. It is more advanced that your old yellow eTrex. It's more comparable to an eTrex H.

Maybe, as mentioned in an earlier post, they'll come out with a matching PDA for kids so they can have cache descriptions! Paperless caching... what a concept!

As shown on the gc.com geomate page, cache ratings and size are shown on the geomate's screen. The only thing that it apparently lacks is the description, clue and the logs. Also, the unit allows you to identify those caches that you found for later logging. For most trad hunters, I suspect that this will be enough. I also suspect that most families will use this device as a secondary GPSr for their kids to use while family-caching.

I think the biggest money is going to be made by Garmin or Magellan when they offer a trade-in program to get a discount on a 'real' GPS if users of this device decide to stay in the game.

 

The good folks at Groundspeak are obviously better businessmen than I, since I am paying them instead of the opposite, but I see a good opportunity for the Law of Unintended Consequences to cause a backfire here, with stale data and no cache description the DNF rate is likely to drive more folks away from the game than it attracts.

While that may certainly be true, I suspect that this may be the low priced product that allows people to get over the two biggest barriers to entry in this game: initial cost and technical proficiency.

[+sbell111]

I think that, had they developed a product that the end user could input to, they'd be more succesful. ... That would help me. That would help my kids find caches. Getting a cheap imitation device, with limited capabilities, loaded with questionably active caches, scattered across the globe, would not.

But you already have a GPSr. And you can buy a yellow Etrex for $100 or so and do all that. And you know what "download" means.

 

This product is presumably aimed at people who don't know, or want to know, things like how to download a .LOC file, plug in a USB or serial cable and install a driver from a CD, download and install GSAK, get the Garmin Communicator plugin working, or even create a Geocaching.com account ("I hear these Internet companies all sell your address to telemarketers, even though they say they won't"). People whose model for buying a product is to walk into a shop, buy it, and use it, like a toaster. Moms whose kids heard about geocaching and are pestering them to try it, but don't want to learn how to work the web site. Grandparents who don't have Internet access and want to be able to spend a fairly small amount of money on a gift that will let the grandkids go geocaching within 5 minutes of opening the package.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that this product will be perfect for many people. Certainly, there are lots of people that prefer to only search for traditional caches. Also, the low cost of this item makes it much easier for people to try out the game, without too much of a financial risk. Finally, this product allows for easy access to cache data. It takes away the choice betwee, manually entering cache data and becoming technically knowledgale and downloading the data. From a look at the pics of the update cable, it appears that downloading new data is as simple as pushing a button, like syncing your pda. This would apparently communicate send a file of those caches that you have marked as found, returning a file of those active caches that you haven't found, and uploading them to the unit. If the Oregon or Colorado had that feature, I'd buy it tomorrow.

I'm not against it, just had some questions... probably the only relevant one being how often a subscriber to this service can connect and update the 250k listings. Unless there's something I am missing this data will be out of date every few days and the DNF rate will drive users to toss it.

I keep an offline database that I keep current through PQs, but I often go weeks (or longer) without dumping that fresh data to my GPSr or pda. I can't think of the last time that this has caused me to look for a cache that had been archived. While I certainly want to have the most recent data, I don't think that caches actually are archived so frequently that this would be a huge issue in the short term. Further, I suspect that the method of pulling the file to be loaded onto spanking new Geomates will tend to reduce the amount of bad data.

Seems to me that finds won't be logged and many caches will be pillaged or muggled.

I wonder if it will have Premium Members-only caches preloaded (or will it be able to download them with the update feature?) If not, I foresee a large movement of PMO caches in the near future. Perhaps we should push for a "Not available to Geomate.jr " option for our caches.

I suspect that whether PMO caches are included will depend on how Groundspeak is paid for updates. If they get a chunk of the price of the update kit, I suspect that PMO caches will neither be preloaded on the unit or included in update downloads. If people are required to buy a premium membership to use the update kit, I suspect that PMOs will not be preloaded to the unit, but will be included in update downloads.

I'm still working out how I feel about this device, but my early feelings are that I'm not very happy about it. If Groundspeak used their own time & money to put out the caches listed on the Geomate.jr, that would be one thing. But they didn't... we did, and we're certainly not getting any kickback from the product.

You aren't getting a kickback from ad or membership revenue, either. This is no different. Edited May 13, 2009 by sbell111

[CoyoteRed]

After some thought, I think the target niche for this product is reluctant parents.

 

"Geocaching? Treasure hunting? That's stupid. I'm too mature for such kid's stuff. The kids might like it, though." They buy one for the kids and turn them loose. The kids find all of the geocaches within their unsupervised range (if any) and ask for the parents to start carting them around. The parents watch the kids have fun and a few won't be able to resist joining in. One thing leads to another and next thing is the family has two new full-blown GPSs and a premium Groundspeak account.

 

This has got to be a gateway device. As a stand alone device I see it as an utter failure. Kids only have a relatively small supervised range. The kids in those videos, if one of my kids wouldn't have a single geocache available to them. I'd be more than a little upset if I bought this item thinking I could just turn them loose. Even as a middle teen there's only two or three for them to find, but by then they're probably "too cool" to do such kid's stuff.

 

At first I thought that there might be a problem with a high muggle rate. I'm not seeing much in the way any ethics of geocaching.

 

Also, I wonder how many of those 250K caches are trinketless micros. Don't we hear that those and kids don't mix well?

[knowschad]

In my experience, this "caching with kids" thing is way overblown. Even the "caching is a family activity" doesn't fit with what I see with my own eyes. Sure, I know of some exceptions, but I'd guess that 85% or more of the cachers in my area are at least 50 years old. I know a few families that have tried caching with their kids or grandchildren, but generally it doesn't work out very well, or for long.

 

As for it being an inexpensive entry device, that means that if they find that they like the activity, that $100 eTrex ends up costing them $169 (well, maybe $159 after the Kiddy GPS sells at their next garage sale)