Rechargable Batteries

[+she_wolf]

I want to switch to them, but it seems the batteries (NiMH) last a shorter period of time than alkalines, significantly. Are there differences between batteries, as well as, chargers. The prices vary so much - and if so what should I get?

I have a Garmin Vista HCx.

Thanks!

Cache On

[+gof1]

I've been using 2500mah Energizers. Very happy with them.

[+Gimpy13]

We've tried a lot of different kinds of rechargeable batteries but we've never been happy with them. They don't have the charge capacity of a regular battery and they discharge what power they do have quickly. After a few months of use, they seem to always lose the ability to take a large charge - holding less and less energy each time. FRUSTRATING!!

 

About 6 months ago we bought a set of eneloop by Sanyo. They're designed differently that other rechargeables. I LOVE them. It was a little bit of an investment for us - we got 8 sets of AA and a charger - but they've been perfect. The take a full charge and they HOLD it. I've had the same set in my digital camera for two months. I use the camera a LOT, it has a motorized lens expansion, and I take a lot of flash pictures. I also keep them in my GPS of course.

 

I recommend them to anyone. As you can tell.

 

http://www.eneloop.info/

[+Jeep4two]

I've used NiMH batteries for a variety of things for several years now. I won't debate brands but I'll mention what I've had fair success with at the end.

 

First consider this. You can buy some batteries in bulk (I just got a 20 pack of Lenmar 2500mAh NiMH rechargables on Buy.com for $38.50 free shipping). This makes the cost a little more than $1.00 per battery.

 

Yeah - they may drain a few hours quicker than that 40 cent alkaline but you can recharge it up to 1000 times.

 

So 1 NiMH will replace maybe 500 Alkalines (if you get 1/2 the service from each charge, and 1000 charges).

 

Financially it just makes sense. Environmentally - also a no brainer. Less trash = better planet. (remember to properly dispose of your NiMH batts or recycle them properly)

 

I've used standard NiMH batts for cameras, wireless mouse/keyboard, GPS, Toys, etc.. I've been very happy with them.

 

If you want the batteries to hold their charge in storage longer than a fw weeks or month or so then consider the Eneloops or other 'Low Discharge' type of NiMH - they cost more but it may be worth it for the convenience and ability to use them in other lower drain devices.

 

Brands I've had success with: Duracell (2150mAh), Duracell (2500mAh), Lenmar (2100mAh), and recently the Lenmar Pro NoMem (2500mAh). I've not owned any Energizers - my dad bought one set and they were terrible but I think he just got a bad batch (wouldn't hold a charge for more than 24 hours - which is NOT normal at all).

 

Some here will also make recommendations for high end chargers to 'condition' and maintain your batteries. This could make a difference but it is an investment. Personally I have a Lenmar 90 minute charger as well as an overnight charger for when I need to do more batteries at one time. They both work great for my needs.

 

Sorry for the long post - and good luck.

[+Jeep4two]

I'll add that you want a minimum of 2500mAh ratings on the batteries when dealing with NiMH batteries. Higher is better, I think there are even some 2700mAh rated batteries.

 

Avoid 'bargain' types like the Rayovac 'green label' (I call it green label for lack of a better name). I picked up 8 of these very inexpensive Rayovacs to try them out. I was skeptical because the mAh rating wasn't printed on the battery or on the packaging anywhere. As I suspected they have a very short life (I get about 2 hours of life in my Wii Wireless sensor bar - while 2500mAh batts give me about 10-12 hours). I kept them instead of returning because they do serve me OK in my Wii remotes so now they are dedicated to that use.

[+SD Marc]

I've been reading up on the NiMH LSD batteries - Sanyo eneloop and Rayovac Hybrids being examples - and there's nothing but good news that I can see. They come charged, the "LSD" part means Low Self-Discharge, meaning the hold a charge when not in use. Both examples are rated 2000 mAh. I bought some of the Rayovacs at REI a while back and they last a long time in my 60Csx. They're also better on the environment the NiCads.

 

I also just read a review stating there is virtually no difference between brands on the NiHM LSD batteries.

 

Right now I'm just using the slow trickle "dumb" charger, but I'm looking into smart chargers, since I'll be using these for a variety of applications. La Crosse being the current front-runner.

[+Jeep4two]

I've been reading up on the NiMH LSD batteries - Sanyo eneloop and Rayovac Hybrids being examples - and there's nothing but good news that I can see. They come charged, the "LSD" part means Low Self-Discharge, meaning the hold a charge when not in use. Both examples are rated 2000 mAh. I bought some of the Rayovacs at REI a while back and they last a long time in my 60Csx. They're also better on the environment the NiCads.

 

I also just read a review stating there is virtually no difference between brands on the NiHM LSD batteries.

 

Right now I'm just using the slow trickle "dumb" charger, but I'm looking into smart chargers, since I'll be using these for a variety of applications. La Crosse being the current front-runner.

 

I'm glad you clarified LSD. . . well, you know. . . your avatar and all

 

To the OP: The LSD batteries to have a lower mAh rating right now. Time will probably cure that and the LSD batts that have 2100mAh ratings and eventually start shipping the 2500mAh variety. That's the beauty of technology.

[+SD Marc]

I've been reading up on the NiMH LSD batteries - Sanyo eneloop and Rayovac Hybrids being examples - and there's nothing but good news that I can see. They come charged, the "LSD" part means Low Self-Discharge, meaning the hold a charge when not in use. Both examples are rated 2000 mAh. I bought some of the Rayovacs at REI a while back and they last a long time in my 60Csx. They're also better on the environment the NiCads.

 

I also just read a review stating there is virtually no difference between brands on the NiHM LSD batteries.

 

Right now I'm just using the slow trickle "dumb" charger, but I'm looking into smart chargers, since I'll be using these for a variety of applications. La Crosse being the current front-runner.

 

I'm glad you clarified LSD. . . well, you know. . . your avatar and all

 

To the OP: The LSD batteries to have a lower mAh rating right now. Time will probably cure that and the LSD batts that have 2100mAh ratings and eventually start shipping the 2500mAh variety. That's the beauty of technology.

 

This is a family site, didn't want to send the wrong message. I think a combo of decent batteries and a good charger ought to keep a cacher caching as much as they want.

 

I noticed some smart charger have auto adapters so you can recharge on the go...

 

It's always good to read reviews on Amazon when looking into purchases with a wide variety of possibilities. People on there don't hold back, and they also provide detailed reviews.

[+Jeep4two]

I noticed some smart charger have auto adapters so you can recharge on the go...

 

Now that's something I'll consider for my next charger. Yeah yeah, I can use an inverter and use my wall charger from home but inverters - well they present a certain risk if left unattended (OK - I'm paranoid about fire). I would hate to come back after a short 20 minute hike to find my inverter torched my Jeep. . . .

 

A 12V compatible model sounds nice . . .

 

Glad to know those exist.

Edited May 9, 2009 by andynshe

[+Frank Broughton]

I used rechargeable batteries for years - have worn out dozens of sets. That would be thousands of regular batteries - saving much mula!

 

I use this place: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm

 

THEY HONOR WARRANTIES! I have bought one charger and they replaced it twice so far (several years time) with no questions asked. Lifetime means lifetime.

 

This is the charger I have (comes with the dc adapter): http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm

[+webscouter.]

I used rechargeable batteries for years - have worn out dozens of sets. That would be thousands of regular batteries - saving much mula!

 

I use this place: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm

 

THEY HONOR WARRANTIES! I have bought one charger and they replaced it twice so far (several years time) with no questions asked. Lifetime means lifetime.

 

This is the charger I have (comes with the dc adapter): http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm

 

I would also recommend this charger and company. The better charger makes all the difference in the world.

 

Also make sure you set your GPS battery setting to NIHM. If it is still set to Alkaline it will appear that your battery is dead when in reality it still has plenty of charge left on it. The discharge curve of a NIHM battery is significantly different than an alkaline battery and the setting on the GPS takes that into account.

[+Viridios]

I use rechargeable batteries, and I love them. They are a great way to save money and the environment. I use a variety of types, and they all work well.

 

Which ever type of batteries you use, please DO NOT throw them away!! All batteries are hazardous waste, and contain a variety of toxic heavy metals such as nickel, cadmium and mercury, that can leach into the soil, ground water, and surface water that we all love. These metals can accumulate into the animals that use the area, and can accumulate in their fats and flesh, eventually reaching us when we eat fish, wild game, and farm raised meat. These metals have been shown to affect the brain, liver, kidneys, and lead to respiratory issues. They are also very dangerous to developing fetuses.

 

When your batteries are done, please save them and dispose of them properly, either to a local recycling facility, or take them to a home hazardous waste day, where they collect old paint, and oils, etc. Contact your local waste management service to find out.

 

This has been a service announcement from your local tree-hugger

[+briansnat]

I've used rechargeables for a few years. My first set were Panasonic. Several years later they are still in use, though they don't hold a charge for real long anymore. Still I can get 4-5 hours out of them. Heck I've paid for them a dozen times already, so who cares if I go through 3 pairs in a day of geocaching? Still cheaper than using alkalines.

 

The only negatives with the the rechargeables I've used were that you need to top them off periodically. They lose their charge just sitting on the shelf. So once every two weeks I just recharge them all.

 

I just brought 8 Sanyo Enloops and the claim is that these don't discharge when sitting. I haven't let them sit long enough to test the claim but so far I'm happy with 'em.

[Team Centurian]

Thanx for starting this post She Wolf, being new to geocaching I have been wondering the same thing. Have used recharables in my electrinics in the past and now I know my mistakes. ty all

[+Wild Thing 73]

Buy alkaline off the shelf and check the battery life....for your GPSr, Alkalines are #1 in my book. Stay safe.

[+she_wolf]

Thanks for ALL the info - I would prefer to go with rechargables, but got extremely frustrated that they drained so quickly AND/ OR that I would go to replace them and then "new" ones were literally dead - hey I just learned from this post that rechargeables discharge. I have been caching just under a year, but the expense and my collection of dead batteries led me to ask this question

 

Cache On!!!

[+Kohavis]

Just remember that NiMH rechargeables have less of a memory effect than the older Ni-Cd batteries, but they still have some. "Topping them off" as was suggested earlier in this topic is not a good idea. It will shorten their life. They prefer to be completely discharged before being recharged. This is just the opposite of Lithium Ion rechargeables like cell phones and laptops use.

 

After you run them down a ways, do yourself a favor and completely discharge them before throwing them on the charger. Put them in a cheapo flashlight or something and leave it on until they're dead, then recharge.

 

I built a special load for my rechargeables (power resistors in a little bud box with battery holder on top and a little LED to show remaining life). So far the Energizers I use still have their original capacity after 8 months of heavy use.

[+Saginaw Bloodhounds]

Just remember that NiMH rechargeables have less of a memory effect than the older Ni-Cd batteries, but they still have some. "Topping them off" as was suggested earlier in this topic is not a good idea. It will shorten their life. They prefer to be completely discharged before being recharged. This is just the opposite of Lithium Ion rechargeables like cell phones and laptops use.

 

After you run them down a ways, do yourself a favor and completely discharge them before throwing them on the charger. Put them in a cheapo flashlight or something and leave it on until they're dead, then recharge.

 

 

I didnt know that topping them off was a bad thing. Usually I charge them when I am finished using my GPSr and then as I am on the computer planning my caching day, I put them back in the charger to top them off. Is it bad to let them sit dead for a week or so?

[+Kohavis]

Just remember that NiMH rechargeables have less of a memory effect than the older Ni-Cd batteries, but they still have some. "Topping them off" as was suggested earlier in this topic is not a good idea. It will shorten their life. They prefer to be completely discharged before being recharged. This is just the opposite of Lithium Ion rechargeables like cell phones and laptops use.

 

After you run them down a ways, do yourself a favor and completely discharge them before throwing them on the charger. Put them in a cheapo flashlight or something and leave it on until they're dead, then recharge.

 

 

I didnt know that topping them off was a bad thing. Usually I charge them when I am finished using my GPSr and then as I am on the computer planning my caching day, I put them back in the charger to top them off. Is it bad to let them sit dead for a week or so?

No. They'll be fine. They sit in a discharged state while in the warehouse before the store where you bought them is able to put them on display, after all.

 

Resist the urge to top them off and they'll be happier batteries in the long run

[+Jeep4two]

Just remember that NiMH rechargeables have less of a memory effect than the older Ni-Cd batteries, but they still have some. "Topping them off" as was suggested earlier in this topic is not a good idea. It will shorten their life. They prefer to be completely discharged before being recharged. This is just the opposite of Lithium Ion rechargeables like cell phones and laptops use.

 

After you run them down a ways, do yourself a favor and completely discharge them before throwing them on the charger. Put them in a cheapo flashlight or something and leave it on until they're dead, then recharge.

 

 

I didnt know that topping them off was a bad thing. Usually I charge them when I am finished using my GPSr and then as I am on the computer planning my caching day, I put them back in the charger to top them off. Is it bad to let them sit dead for a week or so?

No. They'll be fine. They sit in a discharged state while in the warehouse before the store where you bought them is able to put them on display, after all.

 

Resist the urge to top them off and they'll be happier batteries in the long run

 

What Kohavis refers to is somewhat true. NiMH batteries are somewhat prone to the memory effect (limited capacity due to topping off before full drain) but it's a small amount. However with high drain devices like our color screen GPSr units, mp3 players and cameras every little bit counts. Over a period of years you could cost yourself a few mAh's worth of capacity. That's where the higher end chargers come in. They have circuity built in that will 'condition' your batteries (condition being a technical term for discharging to an appropriate state before recharging). It can help extend the life of your batteries and if you are a heavy user of batteries make the more expensive chargers worthwhile.

 

An inexpensive AA flashlight (an incandescent bulb will drain the battery quicker than LED's) is a good way to fully drain your batteries as well, then use a standard charger. Probably not quite as good as an expensive conditioning charger, but close.

 

In then end - even without conditioning NiMH batteries will save you hundreds over their lifespan (even more with the more attentive care).

Edited May 11, 2009 by andynshe

[+Tech Nic]

I have two pairs of Energizer NiMH batteries that are over four years old. I still use them on a daily basis, giving me more than a full day of caching on each pair. When necessary, they are recharged with the charger that came with them.

Never the less, don't leave home without a new pair of good brand alkaline batteries as back up, and as mentioned above, set your GPS to the type of battery you are using. It is quick and simple to do, and may add those minutes or hours that are required to find that cache which you might not otherwise find with the dead GPSr.

[+Chuy!]

Has anyone experienced rechargeable batteries "caving" in at the negative ends from the heat generated from fast-charge chargers? I have Energizers, Duracells, and Powerizers. All have dents at the negative ends after several months of usage. Only the eneloops have not, yet, succumbed, but I've only had them a few months.

 

I, too, am annoyed at the short-life service of rechargeables. I recently used lithium batteries and was pleased at their performance. They are more cost-effective than alkalines in that they cost 2x more but can last 3-4 times longer.

[+SD Marc]

Has anyone experienced rechargeable batteries "caving" in at the negative ends from the heat generated from fast-charge chargers? I have Energizers, Duracells, and Powerizers. All have dents at the negative ends after several months of usage. Only the eneloops have not, yet, succumbed, but I've only had them a few months.

 

I, too, am annoyed at the short-life service of rechargeables. I recently used lithium batteries and was pleased at their performance. They are more cost-effective than alkalines in that they cost 2x more but can last 3-4 times longer.

 

Some of the "smart" chargers regulate heat, as well as condition older batteries.

[+searchjaunt]

I use these Recyko batteries and am very happy about them. They retain their capacity better.

[+Sol seaker]

As I just wrote in another thread, I've been actually doing a lot of battery experimenting lately.

I have not, however extended my testing to rechargables yet, but others seem to have written about their experiences with those in depth.

 

If you do not want to go with rechargeables, then my experience is this:

 

The "platiunum" batteries meant for long-life in eletronic gear, such as cameras, are the best money for the battery. I think these are Duracells. They lasted roughly four times longer for me than the next highest quality Duracell Copper Tops. I think they cost twice the cost, but lasted four times as long or better.

 

The second is the Duracell Copper Top. It lasted about 3 times as long as the Energizer, and Did Not cost even twice as much.

 

Anything from (and including) the energizer and down in quality is a waste of time, money, and landfills as far as I'm concerned. I had to carry tons of them besides. Changed them constantly. Seemed to be just throwing away my money by the handfuls on these. They also drove me nuts as my GPS gets less efficient, is farther off, the lower the battery gets so I ended up with more time of inaccuracy on my GPS.

Also more time changing batteries right when I was coming right up on ground zero. Aarrrggghhh!!!

 

Costco is good for Duracells copper top and also carry rechargables and rechargers, but I don't know the brand.

 

Other than that I look for sales at Target, Fred Meyers and other discount stores.

 

I swore when I began this I'd take stock in Duracell!!

[+Chrysalides]

Let's take some figures.

 

Rechargable batteries (Sanyo Eneloop, AA, pack of 4) : $15

Smart charger : $50

Cost per charge for a pair (let's be generous here) : 10 cents

Assuming they last 500 charges, total costs : $115.

 

Since we have two pairs, each one is only being recharged 250 times, well below the 500 - 1000 recharge cycle figure quoted.

 

I see Energizers or Duracells go for about $1 per cell. The lithiums are about $2 per cell.

 

Let's assume the Alkalines last 2x as long as rechargables, and that the Lithiums 8x as long. We'd need 250 pairs of Alkalines, and 62.5 pairs of Lithiums for equivalent power.

 

250 x 2 AA alkaline : $500

62.5 x 2 AA lithium : $250

 

Not even close. And bear in mind I've skewed the performance figures very much to the advantage of the disposables.

 

Now factor in the fact about waste. Alkalines (and lithiums) generate a lot more physical waste. And the eneloops can sit in my bag for a month or two without significant self discharge, eliminating a major concern with rechargables.

 

To me, the choice is clear.

[+11011100]

Anybody used these puppies:

 

Hybrio

[+welch]

Has anyone experienced rechargeable batteries "caving" in at the negative ends from the heat generated from fast-charge chargers? I have Energizers, Duracells, and Powerizers. All have dents at the negative ends after several months of usage. Only the eneloops have not, yet, succumbed, but I've only had them a few months.

I don't know about heat caving, but I have seen some small dents on the flat/negative side from the nub on the postive side of the cell behind slamming forward... I have an old gps that used four AA, two in each 'stack'.

[+welch]

double post.

Edited May 12, 2009 by welch

[+Curioddity]

First, let me qualify myself: I might be new to Geocaching but I've been a rabid model aviator for years. The type of models I fly are all electric and some of my powered planes use LiPo packs which cost hundreds of dollars each. I also fly slope and thermal duration gliders which typically use NiMH packs to power the receiver and servos. Some of those gliders are carbon composite models which cost well over a thousand dollars. Others are made of EPP foam which is shaped, taped, and covered with iron-on film. Those typically have battery packs which are imbedded in foam and covered over so if I have to replace one, I have to cut the plane open to do it.

 

Needless to say, the health of my R/C battery packs is very important to me and I've spent considerable time researching every aspect of charging and maintaining them. My battery tools include a pair of Hobbico AccuCycle Elite chargers, a pair of Hyperion EOS0610i Duo chargers, and a West Mountain Radio CBA II analyzer. That said, here's what I've learned about AA and AAA NiMH cells:

 

Heat will kill 'em faster than anything. If your charger gets your cells much more than a little warm when you charge them, you're shortening their useable life every time you charge them.

 

Maybe you can charge them in an hour, but you shouldn't unless you have to. Stick below a 0.5C (1/2 capacity) charge rate and your batteries will reward you.

 

Use a "smart" (peak detect) charger designed for NiMH cells and use the Soft Charge mode whenever you can (if the charger has that option). I use a MAHA MH-C800S on soft charge for my loose cells.

 

The ultra-high capacity (2500mAh+) cells don't last as long as the lower capacity cells. The sweet spot seems to be 2000 - 2300 mAh.

 

The "hybrid" NiMH cells (Eneloop, etc.) are the cat's meow! In warm climates, standard NiMH cells can lose as much as 20% of their charge just sitting on the table overnight. Subject them to in-car temperatures and it can be substantially more. Leave fully-charged cells in your glovebox for a week and they might not even be able to turn your device on when you finally want to use it. The hybrid cells don't have a significant self-discharge rate so you can charge and store and they'll still be ready to go when you want to play.

 

At most, you should only have to do a complete discharge-charge cycle once or twice a season and a full discharge for NiMH cells is 0.9V per cell resting voltage (for all practical purposes, there's no need to go below 1V per cell). Go below 0.9V and you will do irreversible damage to the cell chemistry. It typically won't kill the cell immediately, but it will reduce the capacity and shorten the usable life of the cells.

 

Follow these rules and your NiMH cells will reward you. Break 'em and you'll end up whining in threads like this one. For a little example of that, check out this video: www.vimeo.com/1760099. It's one of the planes I mentioned which has the battery pack imbedded in foam and covered over with packing tape and iron-on film. I built the plane in 2005 and it still has the same NiMH pack in it. About a month ago I did my annual charge-discharge-charge test and logged the discharge with my CBA-II. That pack will still deliver almost the same capacity at a 200 mAh load as it did when it was new.

 

Pete

Edited May 13, 2009 by Curioddity

[+Curioddity]

One more quick note about Eneloops in an Oregon 400t: A pair of fully-charged cells will drop from full to 1/2 on the battery gauge in a couple of hours. Then it will hang there for many more hours without dropping any further. This is a typical discharge curve for a NiMH cell, regardless of whether it's a hybrid or standard.

 

But just beware that once it starts to drop again, it's going to go pretty quick.

 

Pete

 

Edited May 13, 2009 by Curioddity

[+SD Marc]

Interesting and informative post, Curioddity, thanks.

 

I just received my La Crosse Technology BC-900 smart charger, so far it seems a soild unit, and I'm sure it'll help kkep my batteries running for a long time to come. An unexpected bonus... the travel case has a belt loop, so I can have my charger, with all accesorries, at my hip, should a battery-charging emergency arise. Sweet... and stylish!

Edited May 14, 2009 by SD Marc

[+hofy67]

As has been touched upon already, CONDITIONING is the key.

A smart charger will condition the batteries by charging and discharging them in a cycle. What this does is make it so the batteries will charge to their maximum rating. I have done this on my cheap Rayovac green label AA batteries. They never used to last very long but now can go as long as any other brand I have.

 

I use the La Crosse BC900. Amazon has it for $40 and it comes with 4 AA 2600mah and 4 AAA 1000mah.

 

BTW conditioning can take along time on trickle mode. 4 batteries usually take 48 hours or so. But definitely worth it.