Reading and reading and reading and my brain is boggled

May 5, 2009

I saw the nuvi205 for $189 sale, almost walked out with it but came home to do more research and reading. Hubby already made one hasty purchase which is not working out for me at ALL, and so I'm going to buy myself a new GPS for mother's day. The one that hubby bought is great for driving directions, so the one I will purchase doesn't necessarily need to be strong in that department. I do live in a mountainous region with a lot of tree covered caches, so that is an important consideration. I would like it to be simple to get started, with the option to add on things as I become more familiar with the world of geocaching. However, the starting simplicity is more important than the ability to do more because I have spent so much time messing with this one that hubby bought and I am so beyond frustrated - I just want to GO already!

I have been reading and reading and reading but there is sooooo much information here. Someone give me a clue, and I apologize in advance because I know this has been done but I am sucking with the search function apparently.

22k · May 5, 2009

If you are looking for a hand held I'd recommend the Vista HCx for $214.

Great reception and plenty of room for maps. It does auto-routing if you ever decide to buy street maps.

(you can add in the 2 gig micro sd card for about 6 bucks)

Edited May 5, 2009 by BlueDeuce

May 6, 2009

Add the two gb card to that above and then download the plethora of free maps (see sig).

The nuvi would have been no good for geocaching; that version is not meant to be an outdoor GPS.

8.9k · May 6, 2009

DeLorme PN-20....it's not great for driving, but you don't need it for that anyways. It's paperless (I think fully now, but might be wrong), has maps included and you can add aerial imagery and other great maps with a $30/year subscription! It's simple to use, you can add on and use more advanced features as you want!

I think you can grab the PN-20 for around $140 or less??

2.6k · May 6, 2009

However, the starting simplicity is more important than the ability to do more because I have spent so much time messing with this one that hubby bought and I am so beyond frustrated - I just want to GO already!

Don't get a DeLorme then. I beg to disagree Rockin Roddy.

If you can swing it, get the Garmin Oregon 400t on sale at REI for $400- $50 rebate = $350 thru May 10.

22k · May 6, 2009

I hope these responses help you settle on one to choose.

May 6, 2009

I hope these responses help you settle on one to choose.

You see the problem I'm having??? Too many choices, and everyone has different reasons for loving the one they love.

2.1k · May 6, 2009

For the <$200 price and the ease-to-use, Garmin Vista or Legend HCX.

For even easier startup, greater geoaching functionality (paperless) but for more money, Oregon 300 or 400t.

22k · May 6, 2009

For the <$200 price and the ease-to-use, Garmin Vista or Legend HCX.

For even easier startup, greater geoaching functionality (paperless) but for more money, Oregon 300 or 400t.

and MG means Vista HCX

May 6, 2009

We use the Garmin nuvi 200W for uploading waypoints and it is great for paperless caching because you can upload cache descriptions, hints, GC numbers, previous logs, and it even tells you when you are getting close to caches (if you have the right PQ running). However, there is no way that I would trust that unit, or any Garmin nuvi product for that matter, to hunt a geocache as a handheld. The +/- accuracy on the nuvi models is somewhere between 20-40 feet and that will just not do when you need to be within 5-10-15 feet to find a geocache.

You will probably not find an all-in-one GPS unit that can route you, hold cache pages, description, etc., without spending more than $200. If you already have a handheld GPS that you use for geocaching and want to find one that you can use is your car for trips and then add features to for customized geocaching, then the nuvi is a good choice. We use ours with a Garmin GPS60 handheld unit and the combination works great, but our next purchase will be a Colorado unit that can do it all...once we have the money.

2.1k · May 6, 2009

and MG means Vista HCX

Yes, good catch. ty

6.4k · May 6, 2009

Get an Etrex Legend HCX. That fits your budget and will work well. If you become addicted, you can buy something else later and sell it or give it to hubby.

Are you in West Virginia? If so, find free maps here: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/wv If it another state, check at that site.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Red90

8.9k · May 6, 2009

However, the starting simplicity is more important than the ability to do more because I have spent so much time messing with this one that hubby bought and I am so beyond frustrated - I just want to GO already!

Don't get a DeLorme then. I beg to disagree Rockin Roddy.

If you can swing it, get the Garmin Oregon 400t on sale at REI for $400- $50 rebate = $350 thru May 10.

That's odd, many many newb cachers have reported finding the PN-20 and the PN-40 both very simple to figure out, some reporting they didn't even need the manual. What would make you say you disagree? I am a proud owner of a PN-40 and, while I'm about as techy as a board, I had no trouble using it! Loading the included maps took mere minutes, loading a cache is as simple as hitting the send to GPS button on the cache page...can't get much easier. Bringing up the info is a bit tricky, you highlight the comment field and hit enter...changing coords for a second stage is also as simple as highlighting the coords and editing...a breeze!!

8.9k · May 6, 2009

Get an Etrex Legend HCX. That fits your budget and will work well. If you become addicted, you can buy something else later and sell it or give it to hubby.

Are you in West Virginia? If so, find free maps here: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/wv If it another state, check at that site.

Why? When you can buy a product that has all the bells and whistles for less AND it's simple to use, why spend more money with the intent of upgrading later? Buy the PN-20, you'll not need to upgrade! Oh, and the maps are included with the unit! PLUS, you can buy a subscription for aerial imagery, sat imagery, NOAA charts etc.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

May 6, 2009

However, the starting simplicity is more important than the ability to do more because I have spent so much time messing with this one that hubby bought and I am so beyond frustrated - I just want to GO already!

Don't get a DeLorme then. I beg to disagree Rockin Roddy.

If you can swing it, get the Garmin Oregon 400t on sale at REI for $400- $50 rebate = $350 thru May 10.

If you are going to say don't get a DeLorme, at least tell us why you say that. If it's about the software, sure, Topo takes a little getting used to, but it's not that bad, and once you learn it, it's easy. And you don't even need Topo to send caches to the unit, it's just like any Garmin, Send To GPS, and that gives you full cache description and everything you need for paperless. I have both a DeLorme PN-40 and a Legend HCx, and both are excellent units. I also had a PN-20 briefly, got it to give DeLorme a test-drive to see if I wanted to get the PN-40 (this was before the PN-40 came out), and I liked the PN-20 enough that I sold it in about a month and put that money towards my PN-40.

May 7, 2009

here we go again...........

5.3k · May 7, 2009

I'll back Rich up on his advice regarding the Delorme GPS's in this case. There seems to be a range of reaction from n00bs to the Delorme series from frustrated with the complexity (more with the TopoUSA software than the PNs) to others such as Roddy cited who say it seems intuitive or not so bad.

I wouldn't shy from suggesting a PN-20 or PN-40 for someone who has indicated they're into geeky challenges or not otherwise deterred by technology...maybe not even for someone who hasn't mentioned anything on the matter. But for someone who has noted that simplicity is a high priority, I'd steer them away from the PNs. The Garmin map software doesn't do as much, but it's easier to use for that loss of functionality.

I think I remember a statement from someone at Delorme acknowledging that they didn't envision the PNs as devices to serve as someone's introduction to GPS handhelds. They are working to make the startup curve easier, and I think when the Cache Register is released that the reduced need to use TopoUSA will make it that much smoother for someone who doesn't want or need to dive into the nuts and bolts. But that's out there on the horizon at present.

Edit to add: Maingray's advice seems like a good summation. Accept it as a given that you can't know for sure until you've got your own personal experience to know what you like and dislike. You can go nuts trying to make the perfect decision, just settle for the best decision you can make given the situation.

Edited May 7, 2009 by embra

8.9k · May 7, 2009

I'll back Rich up on his advice regarding the Delorme GPS's in this case. There seems to be a range of reaction from n00bs to the Delorme series from frustrated with the complexity (more with the TopoUSA software than the PNs) to others such as Roddy cited who say it seems intuitive or not so bad.

I wouldn't shy from suggesting a PN-20 or PN-40 for someone who has indicated they're into geeky challenges or not otherwise deterred by technology...maybe not even for someone who hasn't mentioned anything on the matter. But for someone who has noted that simplicity is a high priority, I'd steer them away from the PNs. The Garmin map software doesn't do as much, but it's easier to use for that loss of functionality.

I think I remember a statement from someone at Delorme acknowledging that they didn't envision the PNs as devices to serve as someone's introduction to GPS handhelds. They are working to make the startup curve easier, and I think when the Cache Register is released that the reduced need to use TopoUSA will make it that much smoother for someone who doesn't want or need to dive into the nuts and bolts. But that's out there on the horizon at present.

Edit to add: Maingray's advice seems like a good summation. Accept it as a given that you can't know for sure until you've got your own personal experience to know what you like and dislike. You can go nuts trying to make the perfect decision, just settle for the best decision you can make given the situation.

I respect your thoughts here as I do everyone's, but I must continue on this. Simplicity in use is what the PN series has, it's very simple in it's useage, click a button and go! Loading caches is a one button process, simple. Loading the included maps is a one or two click process, simple. Finding caches with the PNs is truly simple, the TOPO software is the difficult part (and I truly don't see it as difficult either)....BUT, TOPO isn't even needed for any of the caching experiences pointed out here (loading caches, maps or finding caches).

I say that again, TOPO isn't needed to find a cache, load a cache or loading any included maps....AT ALL!! This means you get the more advanced features with the simple to use unit, so no need to upgrade later when you get around to using them!

The beauty of it, the PN series has so much more to offer than just the simplicity of use, the great accuracy and the included maps...paperless caching is one of the sweet bonuses! And, this too is simple to use, just follow the directions and you're now able to log finds right from your PN series! I will tell you, I am NOT a techy person and I figured out how to use the paperless feature without a problem at all!!

The TOPO7 (soon to be 8) offers a variety of advanced features, but you can learn them at your own pace and they really don't even need to be learned...I don't use TOPO7 right now at all!!

8.9k · May 7, 2009

In fact, I would like to ask, what processes are difficult for any user let alone a first timer? Please post the difficult processes and, if applicable, how they're easier on the HCx! Let's compare the ease of use on these so the OP can make an informed decision!

May 7, 2009

I'm going to second (or third or whatever) the Vista HCx.

Once you are used to the button layout, it is easy to use and accurate.

Loading PQ's is as easy as pie. Add a $10 Palm for paperless and you're set.

I have one in addition to my 60CSx and PN40. I like using the others better, but it is a personal prefrence.

The Lady is looking for advice, let's not turn this into another brand war.

PP4x4

4.3k · May 7, 2009

I'd recommend a Garmin eTrex Legend HCX.

It's a close thing - which is probably why every discussion like this devolves to "Garmin vs DeLorme." Either unit would do equally well on basic GPS functions (where am I? where is my destination?). Both meet her need for simplicity.

If the OP had listed "paperless caching" as her primary consideration, or that she wanted to load lots of different kinds of maps and imagery to her GPS, I'd recommend the PN-20 over anything else in her price range.

BUT - She didn't. And the few small areas where the Garmin has the advantage fit nicely alongside the need for "simplicity."

The Legend screen updates more quickly.

The Legend is smaller, lighter, easier to pack and carry.

Batteries last longer in the Legend. You should always carry extra batteries anyhow, but it's nice not to have to stop and change them as often.

And while this is outside of the OP's quest for simplicity - there is more 3rd party compatibility with the Garmin than DeLorme products. I mean, it matters TO ME, and seems simple TO ME to load data from the GPS into another app like Google Earth. You might never want to do it. But if you do - it's much, much easier and faster with Garmin than DeLorme. And the thing about users who start out asking for simplicity is eventually they want to do more Wider range of choices and incremental steps there for Garmin users.

Not everybody's needs and experience are identical. Some of what I presented is just my opinion and folks are welcome to disagree there -- but some of it is simple fact. As I said at the beginning, it's a close thing and either unit would work. I just think the Garmin is be a better choice in this price range and user scenario.

8.9k · May 7, 2009

I read "the option to add on" as the reason for suggesting the PN-20. Add on, to me, would mean being able to do more advanced functions such as paperless caching and adding on aerial imagery. If this is not what the OP, meant, my apology.

As for making it a brand wars, if people don't turn it into a war, it won't be. I see it as a discussion of what is best for the OP as she described....and I belive the PN-20 fits that need perfectly! I believe the OP asked for recommendations, I see opinions being discussed about the options in the OP's price range!

Maybe listing some advanced features would help the OP:

Driving directions (not needed as the OP stated): Both the Vista and the PN-20 will do this, the Vista is probably a bit better, but I'm not sure either way.

Paperless caching: The ability to load all the cache information (just like you see it on the cache page) and carry it on the unit is a HUGE bonus (for most users at least). Being able to read the cache description, get the hint and even read previous logs is sometimes the difference between a find and a DNF! The PN-20 can do this and more, the Vista cannot. And, it's simple to get the paperless feature to work, simply load the cache from the page (or you will soon be able to load via PQ as well). Not having to carry a second device such as a PDA (which isn't made for outdoor abuse like the GPS is) means not having to worry about a separate battery to charge, losing the PDA, breaking the PDA, loading the PDA with the information, carrying more items when out caching etc. The bonus is a MAJOR selling point for many! Also, I might point out, carrying the info is only half of paperless caching, the PN-20 can also log your finds! NICE!

Download from the cache description page: Both will do this with the simple click of a button.

3d party: Vista has the edge here as stated, but DelOrme will have this ability in the near future as reported by the DeLorme staff. Since this is and advanced feature, the lack of ability at this point might not matter too much to the OP.

Screen update: While I agree the Vista is faster, not a single person I have seen has said they could outwalk the DeLorme PN-20. In other words, this might not be much of an edge sinc ethe OP has stated it won't be needed for autorouting!

Accuracy: both are likely similar in accuracy, I'd call this a toss-up.

The size thing is so miniscule a difference, I don't see this as a factor, maybe the OP can weigh in on this? We're definitely not talking pounds of difference, or drastic size differences.

Batteries: Not sure how long the Vista batteries last, I wouldn't doubt the Vista has the edge here though. A set of Duracell HD rechargeables will last 11 hours plus in the PN-40 with the backlight on though, not bad )I'd imagine the PN-20 is comparable??)! I think the Vista might nearly double this?? Having the extra goodies has it's advantages, but at a price!

As Lee said, these are MY opinions and I throw them out there so the OP can have all the info she is seeking. I would ask others to do the same about any other units they might recommend. Secondly, I would recommend the OP go to amazon.com and check out these two units as well as any other she might find fitting her budget, the descriptions and reviews there are valuable info for a shopper!! An informed shopper is a happy buyer, gt as much info as you can!

And last, I have seen a few people say they were almost swayed away from buying a PN because of those saying the units are hard to use....and then state they were glad they made the leap!!

Edited May 8, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

May 8, 2009

I saw the nuvi205 for $189 sale, almost walked out with it but came home to do more research and reading. Hubby already made one hasty purchase which is not working out for me at ALL, and so I'm going to buy myself a new GPS for mother's day. . . .<snip>

OT. Sorry Robert. First post. Might as well go off topic. Understand the subject matter. GarMin, Kansas vs. Delorme, Maine.

This morning I was killing time in a Sears TV/Game/Camera department. Woman with sales flyer in her hand wanted to buy a Sony A200 DSLR camera w/ both kit 18-70mm lens and consumer 75-300mm telezoom lens. The advertised price was fair. I knew the camera line and its family history - Minolta. The boxes looked unmolested. I had a similar model with similar lenses in my car, under the Minolta brand name.

The woman wanted a demo, but did not even know that the camera did not use film. I asked if she had a computer. She said no. She said she wanted to take pictures of wildlife. Long story short, I knew that the camera was as good as any for her purposes at the price, but that she was likely to bend the pins in the Compact Flash memory card when she necessarily took the memory card to the drugstore counter to download her jpgs.

So I didn't push. The Sears saleboys would have been fired in a minute if they worked for me - whether or not the woman had any money.

Back on the topic of buying a GPS for use in the woods. I am a Delorme fan, and a fan of GPS devices that connect to home computers, but would not recommend that this Original Poster rush and buy any GPS for Mother's Day. Seems like she needs to think things over for a week or so also. maybe she will meet the other woman while shopping.

May 8, 2009

In regards to button layouts: like I said, I have a Legend HCx and a DeLorme PN-40, and I LOVE the button layout on the PN-40, and not a huge fan of the HCx. Once you remember what buttons are where, it's not too bad, BUT I find the thumbstick to be in a bad place, as if I'm operating the unit with my right had (I'm right handed, so that's how I'm usually using it), I end up covering the screen up with my hand if I use it in a natural hand position, and, well, that can be a problem. The PN-40 has all it's buttons under the screen, so that's never been an issue, and I loke that much better.

As for using the devices in the field, they are both very similar and very easy to use. I like the paperless capability and aerial imagery you can put on the PN-20/40, but the Legend/Vista HCx is a little smaller and has a better battery life.

4.3k · May 8, 2009

Comments and question to RR & HH:

You're both recommending the PN-20 for the <$200 price point. But if I've read correctly, neither of you has one anymore, having upgraded to the more expensive PN-40.

I own a PN-40 and a Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. The Garmin is faster to get a fix, more sensitive under tree cover, and updates the screen faster than the PN-40. Though the latest DeLorme firmware update seems to have improved sensitivity and TTFF, the Garmin still has it beat. And the firmware update didn't help the PN screen drawing that I can tell; still seems annoyingly slow to me.

BUT -- I can't comment from direct experience with the -20 since I haven't had one. How did your -20 compare to the -40 on those three specific details?

Edited May 8, 2009 by lee_rimar

8.9k · May 8, 2009

Comments and question to RR & HH:

You're both recommending the PN-20 for the <$200 price point. But if I've read correctly, neither of you has one anymore, having upgraded to the more expensive PN-40.

I own a PN-40 and a Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. The Garmin is faster to get a fix, more sensitive under tree cover, and updates the screen faster than the PN-40. Though the latest DeLorme firmware update seems to have improved sensitivity and TTFF, the Garmin still has it beat. And the firmware update didn't help the PN screen drawing that I can tell; still seems annoyingly slow to me.

BUT -- I can't comment from direct experience with the -20 since I haven't had one. How did your -20 compare to the -40 on those three specific details?

A question for you, what do you consider annoyingly slow? If you're having a slow redraw problem, maybe you should contact Delorme and ask about it, I am not seeing this. And again, how will the screen redraw bother the OP? The OP stated she didn't need it for driving, I'm trying ro address the OP's needs here.

Also I have never said I owned a 20 anywhere ever....not sure where you got that! If the OP could swing the extra $$$, I'd be recommending the 40, but I don't see that as an option here! Since the 20 can do much the same things the 40 can, I am happy to recommend it instead.

4.3k · May 8, 2009

...never said I owned a 20 ...not sure where you got that!

Sorry about that. Perhaps I conflated your comments with HondaH8ter. I did think you had a -20 previously and upgraded.

The -20 and -40 are the same shape and have similar user features. But the innards are different enough that they don't perform equally well. At least that's what the product reviews say. I only have a -40 and was hoping to get some informed comparisons from someone who has (or at least had) both.

...what do you consider annoyingly slow?

Slower than the Garmin I was comparing it to; and other GPS models I have.

And again, how will the screen redraw bother the OP?

I don't know it would "bother" her per se, but I offered it as a point of comparison between models being discussed.

What will matter to you or I may not matter to the OP, so the thing to do is lay out ALL of the details out for consideration. Everyone will pick up on the specifics that matter to them.

Again, I apologize for the mistake of thinking you had a PN-20. Perhaps HondaH8ter or Embra can fill in some of the -40 to -20 comparison details I asked about a few posts back.

Edited May 8, 2009 by lee_rimar

May 8, 2009

Wow, I wonder if the original poster is wishing she never asked...

Real quick. I am new to geocaching and got interested as a way to find something fun for the whole family. Got a Vista HCx few weeks back and have now completed several caches. I love it. Simple to use (both 7 and 9 year old use it well), great signal, fast, nice colour screen and yesterday took me w/i 2 feet of a cache. It also has a very nice entry point at $214 and Amazon offered a 2gb card for $6 and a case for $10. The resale is also good on these if you wanted to upgrade later.

May 8, 2009

I chose the "Garmin Vista HCX" my price was around $200 like yours and unit does not let me down.....very happy with it. The garmin 60csx is also a good pick but costs more. Having the SD Card is a big plus

Edited May 8, 2009 by wrkn2mch

2.6k · May 8, 2009

Hmm, I didn't get subscribed to this thread even though I posted in it.

Yes, my problem is with the Topo USA software and not with the PN-40 itself. It's a fine GPS. I just don't think its good for someone who asked for simple.

8.9k · May 8, 2009

Hmm, I didn't get subscribed to this thread even though I posted in it.

Yes, my problem is with the Topo USA software and not with the PN-40 itself. It's a fine GPS. I just don't think its good for someone who asked for simple.

You have to actually subscribe, I think.

Can you explain what you consider difficult? I think it's best to address these issues so everyone can see what is what and such. That's why I asked before!

8.9k · May 8, 2009

Wow, I wonder if the original poster is wishing she never asked...

Why? Isn't feedback what the OP asked for and isn't that exactly what she's getting? I do wish the OP would come back in and let us know some more info though, it's hard to help if we're not led the way the OP would like!!

I still stand by the paperless feature as the single best reason to buy the PN-20, anyone who has had the pleasure of using this feature will attest to it! That would be the one advanced feature that would draw me to the PN over ANY other unit. If the Vista could at least load the info, it would be a contender, but it can't even do that! Same with the 60CSx, a GREAT unit for all kinds of outdoors adventures, but it's not as good as the PN-20 or 40 for caching IMHO...and I think this is what the OP will be using her GPS for?

I also stand by the ease of use and am glad Lee has also stated it is easy for basic usage! Now, the OP stated she would like to be able to "add on" later...what can you "add on" to the Vista? Maybe detailing that would be beneficial to the OP as well? Maybe there's something the Vista can do better and the OP would like that feature?

May 8, 2009

To the OP - if you really want to play with a few of the units, go to an event and check out what GPSr's everyone brings with them. I don't know of too many cachers that wouldn't let you take theirs for a quick test-drive.

8.9k · May 8, 2009

Wow, I wonder if the original poster is wishing she never asked...

Why? Isn't feedback what the OP asked for and isn't that exactly what she's getting? I do wish the OP would come back in and let us know some more info though, it's hard to help if we're not led the way the OP would like!!

I still stand by the paperless feature as the single best reason to buy the PN-20, anyone who has had the pleasure of using this feature will attest to it! That would be the one advanced feature that would draw me to the PN over ANY other unit. If the Vista could at least load the info, it would be a contender, but it can't even do that! Same with the 60CSx, a GREAT unit for all kinds of outdoors adventures, but it's not as good as the PN-20 or 40 for caching IMHO...and I think this is what the OP will be using her GPS for?

I also stand by the ease of use and am glad Lee has also stated it is easy for basic usage! Now, the OP stated she would like to be able to "add on" later...what can you "add on" to the Vista? Maybe detailing that would be beneficial to the OP as well? Maybe there's something the Vista can do better and the OP would like that feature?

May 9, 2009

Wow, I wonder if the original poster is wishing she never asked...

Real quick. I am new to geocaching and got interested as a way to find something fun for the whole family. Got a Vista HCx few weeks back and have now completed several caches. I love it. Simple to use (both 7 and 9 year old use it well), great signal, fast, nice colour screen and yesterday took me w/i 2 feet of a cache. It also has a very nice entry point at $214 and Amazon offered a 2gb card for $6 and a case for $10. The resale is also good on these if you wanted to upgrade later.

I am also new and looking at the vista, but my confusion is mapping. Do you have to have a card and do you have to download other maps? or can you just use the base map?

4.3k · May 9, 2009

Take it with a grain of salt

Stella:

I hope you're able to sift through everything here and pick out some useful details. Here's a quick rundown of recommendations for and against specific units. If the same user posted multiple times about a given device, I've only tallied it once.

Of course, some people type so fast that the numbers might change -- and partisans for or against either device might be arguing with me and adding more posts -- even before I hit Send

Specific recommendations for...

Garmin Vista HCX: 6

Garmin Legend HCX: 3

Garmin Oregon 300 or 400 series: 2 *

Garmin 60cx or csx: 1*

Garmin Nuvi 200w: 1

DeLorme PN-20 or PN-40: 2 **

* A few folks suggested items out of your price range as good alternatives if you could afford them.

** Both of the DeLorme recommendations came from PN-40 users, though the PN-20 is the only DeLorme model in your price range. Of those two users, only one of them has actually owned a PN-20, but upgraded later. The other person recommending the PN-20 says he's never owned one but really likes his PN-40, especially the paperless caching feature.

Specific recommendations against...

DeLorme: 2

-- both from users who had DeLorme units and felt these wouldn't fit your request for simplicity.

Garmin eTrex models in general: 2

-- one from a DeLorme user who didn't like the Garmin button layout and thumb stick location

-- one from a DeLorme user who considers paperless caching to be THE most important feature

And a note of irony...

The majority of unique recommendations in this thread are from folks who own one or more of the models being discussed. But the most prolific writer in this thread (over 1/4 of the posts at the moment) is recommending a model he has never owned -- and he is also criticizing competing recommendations for other models that he has not owned.

Edited May 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

2.1k · May 9, 2009

If you're seriously considering the PN-20, be advised that it may not be on shelves too much longer. It appears (it's been leaked by a couple review/sales sites, nothing official from DeLorme yet aside from a reference to a PN-30 in the installer for the PN-40's 2.5 firmware) that a new model is coming out in the next month or so which will be priced (and have features) between the -20 and -40. This may mark the end of the line for the -20.

4.3k · May 9, 2009

haha, I scooped ya by just minutes

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3929575

8.9k · May 9, 2009

Wow Lee, if you spent that much time posting a tally of pros and cons or advanced features for each product instead of who likes/dislikes, I bet it would have been much more useful for the OP. I like how it seems you MUST have specifically used or owned any product in order to suggest it and, I see you've jumped to another false conclusion. Maybe spending more time posting factual and helpful info would better serve the OP?

Lee is correct, I have not owned the 20, but I am confident in suggesting the unit based on all I've read and from feedback from owners who have posted in the forums or emailed me (some THANKING me for my dogged determintaion in suggesting the DeLormes, yes THANKED me) letting me know of their uusage experience. I am a PN user, and I have owned a few Garmins...and a Maggie....I can tell you that the PN is no trickier to use and to learn than ANY other unit I used including the most basic etrex yellow which I have had, the Legend HCX which I gave away recently or my simple blue Legend for that matter. Hey, the Maggie was harder to learn than the PNs are! I hope this quells any notion I am not qualified to form an opinion?

I would also add, And I tell you this a bit ashamed, but truthfully....I am tech ignorant! I am as bright as a dimmed bulb when it comes to using and learning tech stuff. I can't even program a VCR (yes, VCR, I don't even own a DVR or TIVO or whatever...too techy??). BUT, when it came to learning the PN-40 (what many claim is really tricky to learn), I was able to get it down with only one minor screw-up when I thought I had the process down and forgot one step (this was on the advanced TOPO usage, loading aerial imagery to the PN)....yep, I was capable of learning it quickly and without the use of tech geniuses! Now, if I had waited and heard all this garbage about the DeLormes being too hard to learn, I would have missed buying what I consider one of the premier units for caching!!

I truly wish people would STOP saying the PNs are hard to learn, that is FODDER!

Again, anyone wish to list the advanced features the HCXs have which might entice the OP? I listed the PN-20's that I like, I'm CERTAIN there's more, but I only spoke of what I use. I think it would be much more helpful for the OP than a list of who likes/dislikes...but I could be wrong!

Last, about the speculation of the PN-20 disappearing, this IS merely speculation, take it for what it is (but maybe check into that PN-30....looks promising)!!

Edited May 9, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

May 9, 2009

O.K., the PN's are no harder to use than my other GPSr's.

It is very easy!

Topo 7? THAT is a pain in the ars.

3 steps to load caches into a Garmin.

Start GSAK

Open the zip

Click GPS, select send and wait about half a min. If even that.

Yes, I left out the common steps like downloading the zip, connecting etc.

There is nothing intuitive about 7.

Open the zip to unzip.

Start 7 Wait. Click draw. (draw????)

Click file.

Click import

Select the files you un-zipped. Be sure to get both of them.

Set the PN to map transfer (?)

Save your project

Click exchange

Select the project

Select the map segments.

Oops! you have to use smaller segments

NOW selct the map segments

I would continue, but my foggy brain ran out of memory and anybody reading this just felt their eyes glaze over.

Now when Topo 8 comes out, THAT looks promising.

THAT is why people say the Garmin is easier.

Now if you don't mind selecting each page listing, you can load either with "one click". Niiiiice!! Thanks GC, Garmin and Delorme!!

PigPen4x4

4.3k · May 9, 2009

Roddy, that quick tally didn't take much time to do at all - the hardest part was figure what order to put the paragraphs.

But as for listing all of the features of any unit - I think the features and qualities of most of the units discussed here have already been laid out. Once or twice by most people and no more than eighty or ninety times by you Rehashing "advanced" features would be a bit redundant -- and perhaps unnecessary, as Stella specifically listed simplicity as her primary concern.

Edited May 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

2.6k · May 9, 2009

Thank you. And that is just one example. Sorry RR, but I don't have time to detail the processes.

I will say this. If you follow a tutorial, or record your own steps, once you figure out how to use Topo USA, it ain't so bad. But the learning curve sucks.

8.9k · May 9, 2009

O.K., the PN's are no harder to use than my other GPSr's.

It is very easy!

Topo 7? THAT is a pain in the ars.

3 steps to load caches into a Garmin.

Start GSAK

Open the zip

Click GPS, select send and wait about half a min. If even that.

Yes, I left out the common steps like downloading the zip, connecting etc.

There is nothing intuitive about 7.

Open the zip to unzip.

Start 7 Wait. Click draw. (draw????)

Click file.

Click import

Select the files you un-zipped. Be sure to get both of them.

Set the PN to map transfer (?)

Save your project

Click exchange

Select the project

Select the map segments.

Oops! you have to use smaller segments

NOW selct the map segments

I would continue, but my foggy brain ran out of memory and anybody reading this just felt their eyes glaze over.

Now when Topo 8 comes out, THAT looks promising.

THAT is why people say the Garmin is easier.

Now if you don't mind selecting each page listing, you can load either with "one click". Niiiiice!! Thanks GC, Garmin and Delorme!!

PigPen4x4

Would you not consider the PQ and loading with PQ's as advanced? I would and I wonder how the OP would think of it? I also don't think it's that many steps, or maybe it just seems like less since it only takes less than a minute or two on the PN? I have done this and I do know what is involved! Is the OP a premium member? Would the OP wish to learn GSAK? Maybe the OP would feel more comfortable with the simplest of adding caches (as I have already pointed out, send to GPS), maybe not. I do wish the OP would jump in and let us know this! Also, GSAK is not needed to load PQs for the PN, and you still get more info than using GSAK on the HCX units...right? (please, correct me if I'm wrong here). Soon, Cache Register will be released allowing the PNs to load easier yet and with much more features than the HCX will ever offer! (and yes Lee, this is in the future and not available now, but I think important to know about)

As Redwoods said, there's an EASY to follow step-by-step for almost any advanced process in the DeLorme threads, this is really what has made the learning of the TOPO much easier than some suggest. Sure, if you didn't know about, didn't follow or simply ignored the great walk-throughs some great people have posted, it could be a headache, THANKS to those who took the time to list the simplicity of it though, it's fairly simple, even a child who can follow instructions can do it! Am I wrong in this statement??

And Lee, you say the OP asked for simplicity...she did...but she ALSO stated she was interested in "ADD ONS" (meaning less than simple process features I would guess), why do you want to make it like she has only asked for the simplest of units?? If this were the case, I'd suggest the yelow etrex...can't get simpler or cheaper than that. Fortunately, the OP realizes there are advanced features she might be interested in as she learns the use of her GPS and as she advances in caching skills. If I'm wrong here, I hope the OP could come in and correct me? The PNs are capable of offering much more as you advance through the learning than the HCX's are (for caching at least), this is what I am trying to get out to the OP!

Of all who have posted here, how many do not paperless cache? Is paperless caching less than I said it was? You HCX suggestors, can you get all the info on your suggested units? Is using a PDA really better than paperless via the GPS?

Of all here, do any of you use maps? Are those maps any easier than loading the maps which come with the PNs (remembering the loading of the PN maps is as simple as loading the disc and clicking a few buttons at the most)? I'm guessing this info is helpful to those looking for a unit, not just making statements!

Edited May 9, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

2.6k · May 9, 2009

As Redwoods said, there's an EASY to follow step-by-step for almost any advanced process in the DeLorme threads, this is really what has made the learning of the TOPO much easier than some suggest. Sure, if you didn't know about, didn't follow or simply ignored the great walk-throughs some great people have posted, it could be a headache, THANKS to those who took the time to list the simplicity of it though, it's fairly simple, even a child who can follow instructions can do it! Am I wrong in this statement??

We're pretty much in agreement on this. It's not very intuitive out of the box, but if you can learn other software, you can learn Topo USA.

4.3k · May 9, 2009

Roddy: PQ's may or may not seem to be an advanced feature - it depends on the experience level of the user :laughing:

But it does take fewer steps to load a PQ on the Garmin than on the DeLorme, as outlined above. That may matter to the user who wants simplicity -- even to the point of outweighing the advantages of getting full "paperless" cache details on the unit.

Simplicity? "Show me where it is" - both will do that but the Garmins are easier to load the data.

Advanced? "Show me where it is, the full text of the description, the hint, and all the logs of everyone who found it lately." The DeLorme models can do that but take more steps to load. That may change with DeLorme's announced (not yet released) Cache Register tool, but we're talking about what's available today.

I know you really groove on the paperless thing and I admit it's pretty cool. But it's not as important to everyone else as it is to you -- and for some people it's completely irrelevant.

And before you answer THIS post, please read the next one for my morning expression of silliness.

Edited May 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

4.3k · May 9, 2009

[start alternate reality mode]

Alternate Lee says... Paperless is the only way to go and it doesn't matter what ELSE you might want in a GPS! if it doesn't do paperless caching it's not worth considering! And the BEST best GPS for paperless caching is the iPhone with Groundspeak's Geocaching app!! It seriously trumps the paperless features from DeLorme, Garmin, and anyone else!!! I don't care that the batteries only last about 6 hours in field use, or that I have to be really careful on rainy days, and that I can't wear gloves!!!! It doesn't matter to me and shouldn't matter to you!!!! It's even better than any GPS I haven't tried, and ones that haven't been released to the market yet!!!! The iPhone is so great that I LOVE IT!!!!! and will keep telling you and everyone else until you buy one!!!!!!! You'll thank me, many people have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[end alternate reality mode]

Primary Lee says... Who was THAT guy? Must be an Apple stockholder. Annoying, isn't he? :laughing:

Edited May 9, 2009 by lee_rimar

May 9, 2009

I saw the nuvi205 for $189 sale, almost walked out with it but came home to do more research and reading. Hubby already made one hasty purchase which is not working out for me at ALL, and so I'm going to buy myself a new GPS for mother's day. The one that hubby bought is great for driving directions, so the one I will purchase doesn't necessarily need to be strong in that department. I do live in a mountainous region with a lot of tree covered caches, so that is an important consideration. I would like it to be simple to get started, with the option to add on things as I become more familiar with the world of geocaching. However, the starting simplicity is more important than the ability to do more because I have spent so much time messing with this one that hubby bought and I am so beyond frustrated - I just want to GO already!

I have been reading and reading and reading but there is sooooo much information here. Someone give me a clue, and I apologize in advance because I know this has been done but I am sucking with the search function apparently.

I have to vote for the Vista HCx or Legend HCS. We recently purchased an eTrex Venture HC and quickly realized that we should have threw in the extra money for a unit with a SD card. However, we do like the little Venture HC. My wife is learning to use the Venture on outings while I carry my old Megellan ColorTrak. I should mention that "paperless caching" isn't important to us. When we take the grandkids out, we like to throw in some history along with the hunt. Good Luck with your decision and we hope you end up with your own special Mothers' Day present.

CountryCat & Kitten

May 9, 2009

I am also new and looking at the vista, but my confusion is mapping. Do you have to have a card and do you have to download other maps? or can you just use the base map?

Do you have to have a card...? No, but you will not be able to save points of interest as they are written to the card. May be some other functionality lost as well.

Dont have to download maps. Comes with a base map that most say is pretty bad. Frankly I found it to be fine for what I was doing tho I will at some point purchase a good topo map since I spend a lot of time in the NC mountatins.

May 9, 2009

n00b here and very glad I had not asked this question when I was searching for a unit.

I am a techy but my hubby is not, when searching for a unit for the two of us to use, my main concern was for him to be able to use it. I decided on the Garmin eTrex Legend HCx, as it had everything that I was looking for in a unit...

ease of use

usb

electrinic compass

Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1000

Routes: 50

Track log: 10,000 points, 20 saved tracks

sd card - for future use

and price

which I am sure if you have done your homework and it sounds like you have, you already know this information. We, like you, just wanted to get out there and find some cache. We both are able to use the legend and enjoy it. Like otheres before this post have commented on, it is quick and accurate. I personally have not used a Delorme so cannot comment about it.

Happy mothers day (tomorrow) :laughing:

VERY HAPPY GARMIN ETREX LEGEND HCX owner

May 11, 2009

I agree with Roddy. For $130 the PN-20 is the best value out there. I have never used a etrex but have used a colorado. I just don't see the extra $200 as being necessary as the pn-20 does paperless caching. The unit itself is easy to use. The topo software is confusing but I was able to load the precut map for my area with no problems. As far a PQ's...there is a script that painlessly transfers to the unit. I understand Garmin is just drag and drop but tan extra few steps for the Delorme is negligible. The only knocks are that the delorme maps are outdated. My neighborhood was built in the early 90's and the unit is off by about 500 feet on my local streets. Also I can't upload found caches to geocaching.com with comments...I'm probably doing something wrong though.

n00b here and very glad I had not asked this question when I was searching for a unit.

I am a techy but my hubby is not, when searching for a unit for the two of us to use, my main concern was for him to be able to use it. I decided on the Garmin eTrex Legend HCx, as it had everything that I was looking for in a unit...

ease of use

usb

electrinic compass

Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1000

Routes: 50

Track log: 10,000 points, 20 saved tracks

sd card - for future use

and price

which I am sure if you have done your homework and it sounds like you have, you already know this information. We, like you, just wanted to get out there and find some cache. We both are able to use the legend and enjoy it. Like otheres before this post have commented on, it is quick and accurate. I personally have not used a Delorme so cannot comment about it.

Happy mothers day (tomorrow)

VERY HAPPY GARMIN ETREX LEGEND HCX owner

Reading and reading and reading and my brain is boggled

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