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Gryffyth

"Lost" Geocache up for auction on eBay

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That's an, erm, interesting looking cache container.

 

The whole thing just sounds extremely fishy. I'm not even going to bother with the outraged tirade here.

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Seller states he/she doesn't go geocaching... What about the shirt in the pic with the G+ logo? Seems they know something about caching. Telling the truth? Cache maggot? Publicity stunt? You be the judge.

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I'm pretty sure that if my husband saw this... um... cache container... that he's be out cacheing day-and-night!

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Further investigation shows that the sellers other items look like the contents of a small pawn shop. Anyone want to bet it's an ammo can filled with random junk? I'm almost tempted to bid, just to see what gets sent. Just for a laugh, I sent the seller an e-mail asking for a picture of the contents. If I get an excuse why he can't send one, I'll post it here. I suspect he probably just won't answer though.

 

-K

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I'm thinking a joke between some long established caching pals. Oh yeah, and she's hot.

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Placed a bid, we'll see! If it turns out to be a real cache and we can figure out whose it is I will attach a Travel Bug to it and ship it to them via cache-mail.

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Seller states he/she doesn't go geocaching... What about the shirt in the pic with the G+ logo? Seems they know something about caching. Telling the truth? Cache maggot? Publicity stunt? You be the judge.

 

I was a little confused at first as to what "container and contents" was being sold as most eBay auctions have a photo of the item that is being auctioned.

 

The photo was photoshopped. If you look at the sign she is holding the question mark overlaps one of her fingers. OUCH! Also the G+ logo was added to her shirt.

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WTH???? I'm surprised that the current bid is at $9...

The opening bid was $9.

 

Oh really... oops guess I didn't read all the details. My husband's the ebayer in our household... I think $9 is a little high. Could be wrong though :unsure:

 

-Rozie

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I sent the E-Bay listing owner a message, and they replied. I copy/pasted their reply to The Cheeseheads:

 

Hi, This is Clan Riffster from Fl, Found this on E-Bay it may be yours.

 

 

Wisconsin Geo Cache Geocaching Container & Contents

Item Id: 320366100030

End time: May-06-09 18:05:00 PDT

Seller:

mckeever11 (172)

100.0% Positive Feedback

Member since Mar-12-00 in United States

Location: IL, United States

 

This is the return message I got when I asked about the Cache.

 

It's a plastic container, about the size of a breadbox. The contents are numerous & varied . . . . probably 20 – 25 items plus the logbook. There's some scribbling on the inside cover from "The Cheeseheads", but I can't make out the numbers. The first entry was in Nov. 2005 then another 18 pages. The typical entry has a date & time, some cryptic message & what was exchanged. That's it. Sorry, I can't supply more information. McKeever

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I received a similar reply to the one Clan Riffster got. Lets hope that he gives it back to the Cheeseheads if they contact him.

 

-K

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Blasted double posts... Got a nice PHP error too...

Edited by Gryffyth

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Seller states he/she doesn't go geocaching... What about the shirt in the pic with the G+ logo? Seems they know something about caching. Telling the truth? Cache maggot? Publicity stunt? You be the judge.

 

I was a little confused at first as to what "container and contents" was being sold as most eBay auctions have a photo of the item that is being auctioned.

 

The photo was photoshopped. If you look at the sign she is holding the question mark overlaps one of her fingers. OUCH! Also the G+ logo was added to her shirt.

 

and her face has about and inch of paint on it!

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OK, I've lurked long enough. Time to join the bickering fun.

 

This opens up a whole new concept in geocaching. I'm new to the game, with only 28 finds so far, but give me time. Nevertheless, I'm willing to let all my finds go to the highest bidder. Want to give your numbers a quick boost? I accept PayPal. Maybe you're more interested in a long term deal? I'll provide you with a regular supply of finds for a very moderate fee, payable quarterly. Higher charges may apply for 5-stage multis and mathematical puzzle caches.

 

I'm in New York, so here's an added incentive for you cachers in foreign climes. Do you yearn for that touch of international prestige? I'll send you an even dozen genuine Yankee finds in exchange for a week of shark fishing off the Australian coast or an evening of fly tying in swinging London with Emma Watson. You'll be the envy of all Upper Silesia.

 

Read this unsolicited testimonial: "Sir. The Found logs you posted to my account are so beautifully written that I can hardly believe even now that I didn't drag myself out of the house and find the things myself. My smileys are stacking up nicely and I don't have to miss a single episode of House."

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OK, I've lurked long enough. Time to join the bickering fun.

April Fool's is the beginning of April, not the end :rolleyes:

 

But it does present an interesting question. Do you sell each smiley once, or multiple times? Do you find the cache first then sell the smiley, or do you go find the cache on demand? Curious minds want to know!

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Well, I think I could think of something to do with the contents of that cache contaner! Looks rather stimulating.

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Hmmmm... :rolleyes: I wonder if this will open up a whole new wave of cache muggling? A modern day gold rush... go out and steal caches and sell them on eBay!

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and her face has about and inch of paint on it!

 

Oh hey... yeah... she DOES have a face, doesn't she? :rolleyes:

 

If you look closely at the larger photo, you can see that there was some serious photoshop work done on the face. The nose and mouth look all blurry.

Edited by knowschad

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I'm willing to let all my finds go to the highest bidder.

Sorry. I've already got Sionevil on retainer. :rolleyes:

 

*eyes* SOMEONE needs to reread the text of that NDA they signed...

 

And no, you don't get a refund if they delete your log. We discussed that.

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I reported the listing to ebay. I stated it was stolen property.

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" This listing is my final attempt at disposing of this cache. Obviously, I’d prefer that it go to the appropriate person or team. I’ve started the bidding low, so I can at least re-coup my (excessive) ebay fees. Anything beyond that will compensate me for my time & effort.

 

Please help me return this treasure cache to it’s rightful place."

 

 

Interesting that they claim to want the cache to be returned to its rightful owners, yet they never thought to go to Geocaching.com? They know it is a geocache and the owner's name is on the inside cover of the logbook. How hard would it have been to contact the owner? :blink:

 

As to the ebay fees... the fees are a percentage of the amount an item goes for. $9 is not starting the bidding low. :rolleyes: This looks like a major scam job to me. I'm glad ctraugh2005 reported it to ebay.

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Hmmmm... ;) I wonder if this will open up a whole new wave of cache muggling? A modern day gold rush... go out and steal caches and sell them on eBay!

I wouldn't call this "new". How many areas have been hit by ammo-can thieves?

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Yea, I reported it to ebay as being stolen property. They take that stuff very seriously.

 

Unfortunately we may never be able to recover the lost geocache but at least this guy wont be able to profit off of it.

 

He stated that he took it and is trying to find the rightful owner. But instead of looking for the owner he is selling it, in my book that is stealing.

 

And if we as geocachers do this for every auction we see come up there wont be a bunch of people going out, taking a cache and trying to sell it on eBay for a quick buck.

 

If I am over stepping my ground here I am sorry but it ticks me off that somebody like that can try to make a buck on something as fun as what were doing. It will eventually ruin it for us all.

Edited by ctraugh2005

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Yea, I reported it to ebay as being stolen property.

Good for you.

 

This whole thing seems kind of strange though. If it is just a simple case of cache theft, there's no need for the seller to give the whole story. Seems more like he (?) is ignorant of geocaching, couldn't be bothered to find out more, and thought he can make a quick profit from what he thought was an interesting story. Interesting stories have sold more than a few useless things for a nice profit in the past. See this for example.

 

I doubt it would make any different with true cache thiefs. If someone stole ammo boxes to hawk on eBay, they would definitely not claim that they "found" it somewhere.

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Unfortunately, I did not save a screen shot of the entire page, which would be nice for those reading this thread for the first time since the eBay offering has been removed. But I can post, for posterity, the so-called "cache-container" and an enlarged version of the face to show the photoshopping referred to above:

 

de2c308e-15b9-4088-b52b-20a323b9b9e4.jpg

 

Check out the smudged lips & nose, and the odd edge around the chin and jawline:

d071998e-7d32-457c-b44a-2b0ac90cc113.jpg

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Yea, I reported it to ebay as being stolen property.

Good for you.

 

This whole thing seems kind of strange though. If it is just a simple case of cache theft, there's no need for the seller to give the whole story. Seems more like he (?) is ignorant of geocaching, couldn't be bothered to find out more, and thought he can make a quick profit from what he thought was an interesting story. Interesting stories have sold more than a few useless things for a nice profit in the past. See this for example.

 

I doubt it would make any different with true cache thiefs. If someone stole ammo boxes to hawk on eBay, they would definitely not claim that they "found" it somewhere.

Right, but I agree that reporting it was the right step. Get it off of there and alerts eBay in case this is the start of a trend...

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Looking at the evidence, I wonder if the cache thief photoshopped portions of his own face onto this poor girl. The plot thickens, not to mention gets weirder. Either it's a really involved joke of some cerebral kind, or good authentic source material for one of those "You Might Be A Redneck If..." books.

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Yea, I reported it to ebay as being stolen property.

That brings up an interesting, (and often lively), debate:

If I hide a cache, then quit the game altogether, failing to remove my property, would BillyBobNosePicker taking it home constitute theft?

I know the "official" answer, as I ran a similar scenario by our State Attorney's Office a while back, using a hypothetical active cache.

(FWIW they said "No, it doesn't meet the elements of theft)

I'm wondering more from a moral perspective, as opposed to a legal perspective.

If Ebay Dude got the same response from the cache owner as I did, (none), he might have figured it was abandoned property.

If memory serves, in the listing description, he mentioned that the cache was not where it was supposed to be.

I can only assume he read the cache page to discern where it was originally hidden.

Maybe the cache page description didn't meet the existing location?

A wandering cache container. An unresponsive owner. Not sure I feel outraged that he took the cache.

It's not like he was trying to profit from the deal. $9.00 will barely get you a cup of crappy coffee at Starbucks.

He's "claiming" this was a last ditch attempt to get the cache back to its owner.

Is that stealing? ;)

 

Does seem rather odd...

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I'm wondering more from a moral perspective, as opposed to a legal perspective.

 

OK, I'll bite...

If Ebay Dude got the same response from the cache owner as I did, (none), he might have figured it was abandoned property. If memory serves, in the listing description, he mentioned that the cache was not where it was supposed to be. I can only assume he read the cache page to discern where it was originally hidden. Maybe the cache page description didn't meet the existing location?

 

Ex Post Facto. If memory serves, eBay Dude wasn't looking for the cache when they found it. Only after finding, taking home and looking it up, did they realize "it wasn't where it was supposed to be"...My read is they found something, grabbed it and took it home, did a little research to figure out what it was, maybe attempted to contact the owner, and then tried to sell it.

 

It's not like he was trying to profit from the deal. $9.00 will barely get you a cup of crappy coffee at Starbucks.

 

While there may not be a profit, and staying soley on moral grounds here, if someone were to take something of yours and then offer to "sell" it back to you, does that constitute immoral behavior??

 

Does seem rather odd...

 

Indeed!

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Ex Post Facto.

Very true. Someone completely clueless about the game finds what appears to be an abandoned box of trinkets in a wilderness area. Not a soul around. I'm wondering what my reaction would've been under similar circumstances. I've been practicing CITO long before I started playing this game. If I found an old plastic box of McCrap out in the woods, back in my pre-caching days, I would've probably toted it out as well. Upon investigation, figuring out what it was and what the game was about, I would've tried contacting the owner. In reading betwixt the lines of his item description, I think he did that. I know my E-mail has gone unanswered. I'm betting his did too.

 

Unethical? Not sure.

Stealing? Not in my book, under the circumstances.

Weird? Absolutely!

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The lack of response from the CO seems to leave this specific instance in a gray area. Do they want to keep the container/contents and want them to remain in their location, or other?? If "other", this is only an academic debate; yet eBay can get caught up with delisting an otherwise legal offering. A response from the CO would greatly clarify things!

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I know the "official" answer, as I ran a similar scenario by our State Attorney's Office a while back, using a hypothetical active cache.

(FWIW they said "No, it doesn't meet the elements of theft)

Did they tell you if hiding a cache in the woods meets the elements of littering?

 

I would think that legally our game sometimes comes closer to littering than taking a cache is to theft.

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He stated that he didn't know what it was when he found it. He grabbed it and took it home. He later realized what it was. He stated that he didn't know much about the whole geocahing thing but he also said that it wasn't in the spot where it was supposed to be. How would he know this. If when he took it home and realized that it was a chache he should have put it back where he found it. Maybe it was where it was supposed to be.

 

Maybe he is trying to sell us a line of crap. Maybe he was truly looking for it and found it and decided to profit off of it. Why would he use a woman as his picture and not the cache itself. This tells me that he didn't want the owner to see it and demand it back.

 

The only reason I did report it was to discourage anybody else from thinking it was a good way to make money. They can find a cache, sell it and make a few bucks off of it. This would eventually spiral out of control and ultimately ruin our sport for good.

 

It it was classified as stolen property or not, it still isn't right that he was trying to make money off of it.

 

The last price was $10.50 with a shipping price of $15.65 to me. It had 3 bids on it and over 5 days left. It could have easily gone up in price and he would have made a healthy profit on it. Then he could have looked for another cache and did it all over again.

 

I'm new to this forum and to the whole geocaching sport. But I do hate somebody making a profit off of something that they shouldn't be making a profit off of.

 

Maybe I'm over thinking this, maybe I over reacted by reporting it but I feel the way I feel and I'm sorry if it offends anybody.

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Ex Post Facto.

Very true. Someone completely clueless about the game finds what appears to be an abandoned box of trinkets in a wilderness area. Not a soul around. I'm wondering what my reaction would've been under similar circumstances. I've been practicing CITO long before I started playing this game. If I found an old plastic box of McCrap out in the woods, back in my pre-caching days, I would've probably toted it out as well. Upon investigation, figuring out what it was and what the game was about, I would've tried contacting the owner. In reading betwixt the lines of his item description, I think he did that. I know my E-mail has gone unanswered. I'm betting his did too.

 

Unethical? Not sure.

Stealing? Not in my book, under the circumstances.

Weird? Absolutely!

 

Yup, not stealing! I agree. I was really thinking this was a joke on someone, especially with the hot chick with not only a Geocaching logo on her shirt, but the public domain geocaching logo on her shirt. But if you Google "geocaching logo", even if you never heard of Geocaching, you'd quickly find out there's an official logo with legal restrictions, and a public domain logo. I am now convinced this is really some totally clueless person who thinks they sell anything on ebay. And believe me, you really can sell anything on ebay.

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Maybe I'm over thinking this, maybe I over reacted by reporting it but I feel the way I feel and I'm sorry if it offends anybody.

Maybe it never occurred to you that this could have been a joke. After all he seemed to know a lot about geocaching for a muggle who accidentally found a cache. He even Photoshopped the public domain leatherman geocaching logo on the photo of the girl. (Geocachers are supposed to notice things like that - so they don't take apart real sprinkler heads when looking for a geocache). My guess is that you did over react.

 

Geocaches are often found by muggles who have no idea what these things are. Sometime they are reported as suspicious and the bomb squad blows them up. Sometimes the muggles read the geocaching note the cacher left in the cache. (You do leave a note in all your caches, don't you?) They leave the cache where they found it and maybe even get interested in the game from this experience and log the cache online. And sometimes the muggle figures he found some abandoned property he can now claim. This is the first time I've heard of a muggle deciding that he might get a few dollars for the abandon property by selling it on e-bay. Which is just one more reason I suspect this is a joke. I doubt that anyone seeing this is all of a sudden going to get the idea they can get rich by taking caches they find and selling them on e-bay. My guess is that if this did happen it would be treated like any other cache maggot problem. People would leave cheaper containers or make their caches PMO. In the end, ignoring cache maggots is the best answer to make them go away.

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I like a joke as much as the next guy, especially if the joke is ON the next guy. But ebay is for buying and selling, not weird jokes. Oh, I know all about the really obvious ones like the guy that tried to auction his own hand. I laughed at that one. But this was a very unobvious joke, if joke it was. Judging by the spelling alone, I suspect it was either a clueless yokel or a frat boy. I would have like to seen the auction go a few more days, to see if he pulled the item with a smug "gotcha!", or if he really intended to make some easy beer money. Anyways, ebay is pretty much the last place I would look if I lost a cache.

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Maybe I'm over thinking this, maybe I over reacted by reporting it but I feel the way I feel and I'm sorry if it offends anybody.

Maybe it never occurred to you that this could have been a joke. After all he seemed to know a lot about geocaching for a muggle who accidentally found a cache. He even Photoshopped the public domain leatherman geocaching logo on the photo of the girl. (Geocachers are supposed to notice things like that - so they don't take apart real sprinkler heads when looking for a geocache). My guess is that you did over react.

 

Geocaches are often found by muggles who have no idea what these things are. Sometime they are reported as suspicious and the bomb squad blows them up. Sometimes the muggles read the geocaching note the cacher left in the cache. (You do leave a note in all your caches, don't you?) They leave the cache where they found it and maybe even get interested in the game from this experience and log the cache online. And sometimes the muggle figures he found some abandoned property he can now claim. This is the first time I've heard of a muggle deciding that he might get a few dollars for the abandon property by selling it on e-bay. Which is just one more reason I suspect this is a joke. I doubt that anyone seeing this is all of a sudden going to get the idea they can get rich by taking caches they find and selling them on e-bay. My guess is that if this did happen it would be treated like any other cache maggot problem. People would leave cheaper containers or make their caches PMO. In the end, ignoring cache maggots is the best answer to make them go away.

 

Well I apologize. I'm sorry for being pro active. I'm sorry for over reacting, and I am sorry for sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. It wont happen again.

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I'm sorry for being pro active. I'm sorry for over reacting

I don't think reporting it as stolen was over reacting. You thought it was and acted accordingly. Reporting something as stolen on Ebay doesn't automatically get a listing yanked, any more than reporting that a cache be archived gets the cache archived. It just sends a message to TPTB that there may be a problem, and they should look into it. Judging from the reaction of TPTB, they agreed with your concerns. At this point, the burden of proof falls on the listing owner. He can submit an appeal to Ebay, replete with any proof Ebay may require, and the listing might be restored.

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Wow... we have gotten rather into this one huh? Anaylizing the photo, speculating the true intent of the auctioneer... Did anyone stop to think he might actually be trying to get it back to the owner?? Did anyone try to search for a member named "The Cheeseheads"??

I was actually very excited to watch this auction and see how it all panned out. I was very curious as to the container's contents as well. It all does seem a bit fishy... Were there TBs in it? Would this guy have known what they are if there were?? I do think we may have gone overboard reporting it stolen. I mena, has there been a documented rash of people stealing caches to make a quick buck? I dont see this turning into a phenomenon. Besides, if he was not lying, he did try locally for two weeks to get it back to the owners... Something like this is way too open to personal criticism. he thinks it was stolen, she thinks he is trying to do right... Who is right?? We will now never know.

 

EDIT: There is a member by the name of "The Cheeseheads". I have contacted them and asked them to shed some light on this for us...

Edited by Styluss

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If this is a joke, I don't see how it's funny. Not in the sense that I'm offended, but in the sense that I don't get it. I've seen plenty of ebay pranks that were varying degrees of funny. People selling their virginity, souls, even (and this one is my favorite) Billy Dee Williams. But I guess the joke is on me because I can't even tell what the joke is here. Maybe this guy's sense of humor is as bad as his spelling. (I don't know about you, but my geocaches are feeling very loose right now.)

 

Maybe it's a scam, a made up story to generate page views and bids. On another message board there was a long thread debating whether or not a listing about a Playstation was real. The listed purported to be an outraged mother selling her son's PS2 after he and his friends drank her bottle of Dom Perignon. Did this really happen or was she just trying to get some buzz about what was just one among many game console listings? We'll never know.

 

If it is a joke, keep in mind that ebay shuts down joke listings all the time. There was nothing wrong with ctraugh2005's reporting the listing. I reported it as well a couple days ago, I just never posted here. If you post a joke listing, you should expect it to be shut down. If you post a listing declaring that what you are selling is stolen, you should expect it to be shut down. Perhaps the lister was legitimately trying to return the cache to its rightful owner(s). But when I find other people's property, the list of things I do to return it does not include "try to sell it on ebay".

 

Whatever the true story behind the listing, I think that the fewer listings selling found geocaches on ebay, the better. No need to give anyone ideas or to have a legitimate forum that sort of commerce.

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There is a member by the name of "The Cheeseheads". I have contacted them and asked them to shed some light on this for us...

Good luck with that. I E-mailed them, (as indicated in my post), and got nothing back but cricket sounds.

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There is a member by the name of "The Cheeseheads". I have contacted them and asked them to shed some light on this for us...

Good luck with that. I E-mailed them, (as indicated in my post), and got nothing back but cricket sounds.

I'm kind of surprised at the lak of response. They're fairly active in the forums.

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