Armchair Geocachers?

[+Rose Red]

I got a couple strange logs for one of my Travel Bugs that is For Discovery Only. The Travel Bug has never left the state of Oregon and Washington. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they discovered only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

 

3/29/2009 BernhardGruber discovered it [visit log]

 

Seen at the Geo-Cacher Stammtisch in Munich, Germany.

 

3/29/2009 Madam Mim discovered it [visit log]

 

gesehen am Stammtisch...

Edited April 26, 2009 by Rose Red

[+StarBrand]

Sadly - some folks pass around lists of TB codes for folks to log.

 

Also - many times a photo will give away the code for a TB and there are those that peruse the photo galleries looking for tag codes.

 

Just sad.

[+Kit Fox]

There is seems to be a "subculture" of cheaters that start their logs with "Greetings from Germany." They log fake finds on virtuals, and fake discoveries on trackables.

[+Suziq]

There is seems to be a "subculture" of cheaters that start their logs with "Greetings from Germany." They log fake finds on virtuals, and fake discoveries on trackables.

 

Or it could have been a honest mistake. I had a coin that was sitting on my desk that had never been released that got "discovered" at a woodstock avent. I just wrote them a note telling them that they had made a mistake and that they had 30 days to remove their logs or I would do it for them.

 

When they were writing down the numbers of other trackables they must have wrote the wrong numbers.

 

No harm no foul. Just let them know and take it from there.

[+Rose Red]

There is seems to be a "subculture" of cheaters that start their logs with "Greetings from Germany." They log fake finds on virtuals, and fake discoveries on trackables.

 

Or it could have been a honest mistake. I had a coin that was sitting on my desk that had never been released that got "discovered" at a woodstock avent. I just wrote them a note telling them that they had made a mistake and that they had 30 days to remove their logs or I would do it for them.

 

When they were writing down the numbers of other trackables they must have wrote the wrong numbers.

 

No harm no foul. Just let them know and take it from there.

I doubt that it was an honest one time mistake. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they logged only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

[+briansnat]

I don't know what it is about Germany but there seems a lot of people there who do this. I've had to delete phony logs on my virts and TBs and 90 percent of the time it's a German "geocacher".

[+Aga & Deti]

I got a couple strange logs for one of my Travel Bugs that is For Discovery Only. The Travel Bug has never left the state of Oregon and Washington. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they discovered only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

 

3/29/2009 BernhardGruber discovered it [visit log]

 

Seen at the Geo-Cacher Stammtisch in Munich, Germany.

 

3/29/2009 Madam Mim discovered it [visit log]

 

gesehen am Stammtisch...

 

Is it possible they confused a 0(Zero) as a O(letter) to get a "wrong" TB Number in your example?

Greetings from Germany

[+monsterbox]

Hi!

 

I got a couple strange logs for one of my Travel Bugs that is For Discovery Only. The Travel Bug has never left the state of Oregon and Washington. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they discovered only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

 

3/29/2009 BernhardGruber discovered it [visit log]

 

Seen at the Geo-Cacher Stammtisch in Munich, Germany.

 

3/29/2009 Madam Mim discovered it [visit log]

 

gesehen am Stammtisch...

 

I apologize. I am the one who has shown some pictures from my last trip to the US where I have seen this one and took some photos. And some people sitting beneath me decided to discover as they had the chance to have a good view of the TB.

 

We didn't feel doing something harmful as it wasn't only seeing the number but seeing the TB itself.

 

I am very sorry that you are unhappy with this behaviour! I thought that people at this US event have been really happy getting lots of discoveries. One of the owners extra shared lists of all his coins with the people visiting the event.

 

I hope that you accept my apologies!

 

Bye,

Christian

[+BernhardGruber]

I got a couple strange logs for one of my Travel Bugs that is For Discovery Only. The Travel Bug has never left the state of Oregon and Washington. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they discovered only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

 

3/29/2009 BernhardGruber discovered it [visit log]

 

Seen at the Geo-Cacher Stammtisch in Munich, Germany.

 

3/29/2009 Madam Mim discovered it [visit log]

 

gesehen am Stammtisch...

 

Hi,

 

sorry for the mistake, I really apologize!

During one of our last cacher meeting end of March some coins passed around the table and I saw that someone in the round noted the IDs of them. I asked whether I have to note them again or whether it would be possible to send me the IDs the next days via mail. Seems to be that these IDs were mixed with the IDs Christian explained above (the IDs from the photos)!

 

I got the message today, that you deleted the log and you were right! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

Bernhard

[+Don_J]

There is seems to be a "subculture" of cheaters that start their logs with "Greetings from Germany." They log fake finds on virtuals, and fake discoveries on trackables.

 

A certain Virtual in the Santa Monica Mountains was invaded by Germany about a year ago.

[+JacobBarlow]

I don't know what it is about Germany but there seems a lot of people there who do this. I've had to delete phony logs on my virts and TBs and 90 percent of the time it's a German "geocacher".

 

I see it a lot too, I went through and added a requirement to all my Virtuals and Earthcaches that you needed to post a photo of yourself at the location and the German logs went from several a day to maybe one a week. lol

[+9Key]

I don't know what it is about Germany but there seems a lot of people there who do this. I've had to delete phony logs on my virts and TBs and 90 percent of the time it's a German "geocacher".

 

I see it a lot too, I went through and added a requirement to all my Virtuals and Earthcaches that you needed to post a photo of yourself at the location and the German logs went from several a day to maybe one a week. lol

I've had to change the verification questions on my virts periodically to keep the Euros away. I think they must have a site where they publish the answers to virtual caches.

[+NrthrnLght]

thats so sad but they are only cheating themselves. kinda pathetic to cheat especially when there is nothing to gain.

[+Frank Broughton]

You mean the first finder to 1,000,000 does not get to be "World King oh Slobie" that's it - I quit! Someone lied to me. I was going for it too.

[+Wenniget]

You mean the first finder to 1,000,000 does not get to be "World King oh Slobie" that's it - I quit! Someone lied to me. I was going for it too.

 

I think rather than clogging up our cache pages with fake finds, we should let cheaters use some kind of over-ride to amend their profile pages - they could have as many finds as they wanted. They could start up their own "geocache cheater" clubs and prizes could be awarded (at their own expense of course) to whoever could post the most cheats in a day - but of course they would have to create them all themselves - one at a time. Imagine how busy they all would be - just like busy like worker ants. No time left to bother us!!

On the topic of cheating or stealing, when is someone going to invent a travel bug that has it's own built in tracer?

[+Chrysalides]

I think rather than clogging up our cache pages with fake finds, we should let cheaters use some kind of over-ride to amend their profile pages - they could have as many finds as they wanted.

I'm too lazy to log a million fake finds. I'm having my geocaching name changed to "Chrysalides (1000000 found)"

[+sterni2009]

I don't know what it is about Germany but there seems a lot of people there who do this. I've had to delete phony logs on my virts and TBs and 90 percent of the time it's a German "geocacher".

 

Oh, how I love those generalizations... We're all that bad in my country... Sad of reading those stuff. Greetings from Germany!

Edited May 1, 2009 by sterni2009

[+VirginiaGator]

We've been to some great virtuals in DC. There's one on my watch list still because it was so interesting. There's always posts showing up from cachers in other countries. I get a laugh out of it because they usually have found a few virtuals in different countries...on the same day. There's even been a post by a reviewer suggesting the owner police the logs better. Hmmmmmmmmmm...if the owner doesn't want to keep up with them, I'll gladly adopt the cache and do it!

[+The Inkwell]

I got a couple strange logs for one of my Travel Bugs that is For Discovery Only. The Travel Bug has never left the state of Oregon and Washington. I looked at a couple other Travel Bugs that they discovered only to find that the Travel Bugs were located in the United States. The logs were identical to the ones that I got.

 

3/29/2009 BernhardGruber discovered it [visit log]

 

Seen at the Geo-Cacher Stammtisch in Munich, Germany.

 

3/29/2009 Madam Mim discovered it [visit log]

 

gesehen am Stammtisch...

 

We've got plenty of cachers in our area that log their own caches as finds, so antics like you've experienced don't shock us at all...

[Mr.Yuck]

I don't know what it is about Germany but there seems a lot of people there who do this. I've had to delete phony logs on my virts and TBs and 90 percent of the time it's a German "geocacher".

 

Oh, how I love those generalizations... We're all that bad in my country... Sad of reading those stuff. Greetings from Germany!

 

Yes, there have been some generalizations about Germany and armchair logging of virtuals thrown around. But I tell you, I've seen virtuals that have as many as 100 armchair logs from people who obviously never visited them, and they almost always end in "Greetings from Germany". A lot of this is that it's funny to those of us who have English as our first language, the phrase just sounds kind of silly, for lack of a better term.

 

I've seen virtual armchair logs offering greetings from several other European Countries, if it's any consolation. And thank you for the greetings. Greetings from the USA.

[+Chrysalides]

I get a laugh out of it because they usually have found a few virtuals in different countries...on the same day.

I actually logged two caches over 8000 miles apart on the same day once, thanks to : caches near the airport, early morning flight, and the International Date Line

 

To sterni2009 : don't worry about the generalization. It's all those Americans, always generalizing On a more serious note, is it true that sharing TB codes is a somewhat common and accepted practice among German cachers?

[+sterni2009]

I get a laugh out of it because they usually have found a few virtuals in different countries...on the same day.

I actually logged two caches over 8000 miles apart on the same day once, thanks to : caches near the airport, early morning flight, and the International Date Line

 

To sterni2009 : don't worry about the generalization. It's all those Americans, always generalizing On a more serious note, is it true that sharing TB codes is a somewhat common and accepted practice among German cachers?

 

Hi Chrysalides,

 

no, I really can't tell that this is common. The cachers I know only log TBs they really have seen. The explanation of the user ahead I find ok, because he really saw the TBs and only used the codes of another cacher for not writing them down another time. He did not know that there were codes on that list from photos.

 

Sharing TB codes I for myself would never do, because I want to read in my profile what I have really seen before. My profile is for me and I don't need it for showing other people "Look how great I am, I have seen sooooo many TBs before." That's ridiculous.

 

All in all I really would say that this is not a German "problem" but a common "problem". Armchair logger you have all around the world, no matter what nationality or skin or language they have.

 

GREETINGS FROM GERMANY

Edited May 3, 2009 by sterni2009

[Mr.Yuck]

I get a laugh out of it because they usually have found a few virtuals in different countries...on the same day.

I actually logged two caches over 8000 miles apart on the same day once, thanks to : caches near the airport, early morning flight, and the International Date Line

 

To sterni2009 : don't worry about the generalization. It's all those Americans, always generalizing On a more serious note, is it true that sharing TB codes is a somewhat common and accepted practice among German cachers?

 

Hi Chrysalides,

 

no, I really can't tell that this is common. The cachers I know only log TBs they really have seen. The explanation of the user ahead I find ok, because he really saw the TBs and only used the codes of another cacher for not writing them down another time. He did not know that there were codes on that list from photos.

 

Sharing TB codes I for myself would never do, because I want to read in my profile what I have really seen before. My profile is for me and I don't need it for showing other people "Look how great I am, I have seen sooooo many TBs before." That's ridiculous.

 

All in all I really would say that this is not a German "problem" but a common "problem". Armchair logger you have all around the world, no matter what nationality or skin or language they have.

 

GREETINGS FROM GERMANY

 

I agree. But I'm going to have to break out an example cache. There are Greetings from several nations, although, as always, Germany seems to be the most common. Note also how the cache was archived by a reviewer, as this is considered abuse by TPTB at Geocaching.com

 

Still, I agree, this is not only a German problem, and even I have thrown around the generalization. But I insist it's just because "Greetings from Germany" is funny.

[+Chrysalides]

Sharing TB codes I for myself would never do, because I want to read in my profile what I have really seen before. My profile is for me and I don't need it for showing other people "Look how great I am, I have seen sooooo many TBs before." That's ridiculous.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that does make sense - I don't see the point in having a massive list of trackables either.

 

There are Greetings from several nations, although, as always, Germany seems to be the most common. Note also how the cache was archived by a reviewer, as this is considered abuse by TPTB at Geocaching.com

 

Still, I agree, this is not only a German problem, and even I have thrown around the generalization. But I insist it's just because "Greetings from Germany" is funny.

Perhaps it is because Germany has more geocachers?

 

Personally I don't find "greetings from <insert country here>" funny / silly, and English is my first language. But then again, many question my sense of humor. Greetings from California!

[+NanCycle]

But I insist it's just because "Greetings from Germany" is funny.

What's so funny about "Greetings from Germany"?

 

Greetings from Colorado!

[Mr.Yuck]

But I insist it's just because "Greetings from Germany" is funny.

What's so funny about "Greetings from Germany"?

 

Greetings from Colorado!

 

It's just funny, trust me. If I say it's funny, it's funny.

 

Thanks for all the greetings from like, all over. Greetings from the Northern Suburbs of Buffalo, USA.

[+Sioneva]

I have tried using armchairs as my signature swag item, but they don't fit very well into caches, even the ammo cans. Is there a store that sells miniaturized armchairs that can fit into caches?

 

Thank you.

 

Greetings from Nebraska.

[+Rick618]

Yes, Sioneva there is a small armchair.....and matching table too. 3-1/4"H x 1-3/4"D x 1-3/4"W

 

https://www.minishop.com/motts/shopexd.asp?id=62184

 

Greetings from down yonder.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Rick618

[+NanCycle]

the phrase just sounds kind of silly

Well, I guess "silly" is in the ear of the hearer.

[+Sioneva]

Yes, Sioneva there is a small armchair.....and matching table too. 3-1/4"H x 1-3/4"D x 1-3/4"W

 

https://www.minishop.com/motts/shopexd.asp?id=62184

 

Greetings from down yonder.

 

SWEET. I have to get me some of those!

[+Inder]

Hello,

 

some of you complained about armchair-logs in caches from european (german) people.

 

For your explaination: In some European countries, we have two big platforms for geocaching. One is Groundspeak, the other one is the free and non-commercial. In Germany: www.opencaching.de.

On our free platform, virtual armchair caches are allowed and nobody complains about that. So many german geocachers have no problems with virtual caches and armchair logs. Some of us (including me), have no problem to log a cache after solving a diffucult riddle and/or discovering interesting historic details on interesting places. Logging a geocaching-event ist just the same for me. I don't use a GPS to go there. No search and find. But still a log.

 

I still remember several virtual caches, made for armchair-logging (even in the U.S.) on geocaching.com. Not so long time ago, Groundspeak decided, to stop armchair-caches on geocaching.com and archived a high number of those caches without prior notice. This decision has to be respected, but not every geocacher noticed this change in the rules.

 

If you insist on being personally there before writing a log, nobody will force you to solve and log riddle-caches. If you don't like armchair-logs on your cache, put a physical container with logbook there or ask for a photo with GPS at the spot! If you don't like germans, just write: "No German Logs!" Feel free to do with your cache, whatever you like.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Alfred

[Mr.Yuck]

Hello,

 

some of you complained about armchair-logs in caches from european (german) people.

 

For your explaination: In some European countries, we have two big platforms for geocaching. One is Groundspeak, the other one is the free and non-commercial. In Germany: www.opencaching.de.

On our free platform, virtual armchair caches are allowed and nobody complains about that. So many german geocachers have no problems with virtual caches and armchair logs. Some of us (including me), have no problem to log a cache after solving a diffucult riddle and/or discovering interesting historic details on interesting places. Logging a geocaching-event ist just the same for me. I don't use a GPS to go there. No search and find. But still a log.

 

I still remember several virtual caches, made for armchair-logging (even in the U.S.) on geocaching.com. Not so long time ago, Groundspeak decided, to stop armchair-caches on geocaching.com and archived a high number of those caches without prior notice. This decision has to be respected, but not every geocacher noticed this change in the rules.

 

 

Now that's interesting. Yes, I knew that opencaching.de was rather popular over there, but I did not know that they allowed armchair logging of virtuals. That makes a lot of sense. No, no one doesn't like German's just because they have a seemingly high rate of virtual armchair logging. And I also have always believed the language barrier is a factor in this "misunderstanding".

[+Taoiseach]

If you don't like germans, just write: "No German Logs!"

 

 

That would go over well...

 

Based on my name, could you imagine if I put an ALR* on all of my caches that Englishmen couldn't log finds?

 

*Yes... Yes... I know...

 

Greetings from The National Capital Region! (AKA Queb-tario)

Edited May 25, 2009 by Taoiseach

[cezanne]

For your explaination: In some European countries, we have two big platforms for geocaching. One is Groundspeak, the other one is the free and non-commercial. In Germany: www.opencaching.de.

 

Gc.com is available for free as well.

 

On our free platform, virtual armchair caches are allowed and nobody complains about that.

 

That's not true at all. There has just been a period during which such armchair caches were not excluded by the terms of use of opencaching.de (the currently used definition of cache excludes them). Already right from the beginning there have been many opponents of armchair "caching" also within the group of

people very active in the opencaching movement.

 

 

 

So many german geocachers have no problems with virtual caches and armchair logs.

 

Please note that problems with armchair logs of virtual caches existed long before opencaching showed up.

I followed the discussions already back in 2002 and 2003.

 

What is true, however, is that in the early time of geocaching some European reviewers (in particular one from the Netherlands) accepted virtual caches on gc.com where a physical visit was not even possible -the only chance to log this caches was in an armchair manner.

 

There are other reasons why armchair caching became popular within some groups in some European countries. I have explained the issue in some detail quite a while ago on the Groundspeak forums. Use the forum search to have a look at that thread.

 

Some of us (including me), have no problem to log a cache after solving a diffucult riddle and/or discovering interesting historic details on interesting places. Logging a geocaching-event ist just the same for me. I don't use a GPS to go there. No search and find. But still a log.

 

What makes the essential difference is whether or not one has visited a place. I often cache without help of a GPS-r, but I am visiting the location. I would never think of logging an event if I have just talked to some event participant on the phone during the period when the event took place.

 

Not so long time ago, Groundspeak decided, to stop armchair-caches on geocaching.com and archived a high number of those caches without prior notice. This decision has to be respected, but not every geocacher noticed this change in the rules.

 

There has been no change in the guidelines with respect to virtual caches. The guidelines always asked for a physical visit. There have been just some caches which slipped through.

 

If you don't like armchair-logs on your cache, put a physical container with logbook there or ask for a photo with GPS at the spot!

 

Note that the virtual cache type (now not existing anymore) has been set up to allow caches at locations where no physical container could or should be hidden. As the photo is regarded, note that it is not the term of the searchers of a cache to set up the conditions for a feasible log. That's the term of the owner of the cache. It is the term of the searchers of a cache to respect the guidelines of the database which they are using for geocaching.

 

If you don't like germans, just write: "No German Logs!" Feel free to do with your cache, whatever you like.

 

I do not think that the nationality is any issue in this thread. Note also that it makes a large difference whether someone claims that a high proportion of virtual logs comes from Germany (this statement is certainly true) or whether a high proportion of German cachers write armchair logs (this statement would be wrong).

 

Cezanne

[cezanne]

And I also have always believed the language barrier is a factor in this "misunderstanding".

 

To some extent this is true, but mainly in a different manner than you might expect. The biggest trouble with the term "virtual cache" is that quite a lot of cachers misunderstand the term "virtual" in virtual cache.

In my opinion this term was a very bad choice. Compare it to the meaning of virtual in "virtual reality".

It makes many people believe that virtual caches are not to be visited in real world, but just in a virtual manner. I used to have quite some discussions with cachers who told me that virtual caches are boring per se because one does not have to leave one's home to visit them.

 

Of course the terms are explained in the guidelines, but there are way too many cachers who never really study the guidelines in detail. (Here of course the language barrier comes up, although I am convinced that also many native speakers of English never have read the guidelines in detail.)

 

Cezanne