Is there cheating in geocaching ?

May 5, 2009

I was recently searching #geocaching on Twitter and noticed a lot of tweets posting the final coords of puzzle/mystery caches. It's unlikely someone searching for the caches in question are going to look through Twitter to find the final coords, but I'd still be a little peeved if it were my cache.

May 8, 2009

Yeah. I never post coordinates on Twitter. Granted none of our local cachers follow me on Twitter, but still...

As for shortcutting a multi, yeah I've done it. I was out hunting an FTF one night and walked through the area that a nighttime multi was hidden. You had to find several reflective markers by finding the first one at the coords listed then bearings were given to find the others using a flashlight. They were all within sight of the walking path, including the second to last one. I'd seen them before but didn't realize they were the points of that cache. Just happened to have my phone on me and pulled up the cache page with it, sure enough those were it. Since I didn't have a compass, I basically walked down the path shining my light into the trees until I found the last one, figured out which direction I needed to go by using the dial on my Legend and went to the cache. There was another reflector about 10 feet away from the container (the only one NOT visible from the path with my puny LCD keychain light) which made it that much easier. Don't think I cheated that one.. I DID find all the markers, just not by walking to them and projecting a bearing as was instructed.

I have a multi out that would be both hard and easy to bypass all the stages, but you'd have to look for it to find it and use your geosenses. If someone finds it without going to the individual stages, I don't consider it cheating, but it's their loss as there are some very interesting things to see along the way.

Now, I did recently delete a log from a cache of mine that was disabled two months ago and logged yesterday. The cacher logged that they couldn't remember when they found it, but they found it with another cacher and named their user name. I searched the logs for my cache and the other 4 they logged and found neither name. So I deleted it. I realize it's possible to forget to log one, I've done it myself. But I went back and signed the paper log again before I logged it online. Just felt like the right thing to do. Since this cache had been missing for several months and the other person they supposedly found it with didn't log it either.. I decided I couldn't count it.

This person was fairly new a few months ago and the person they supposedly found my cache with was supposedly teaching them to cache. Apparently they neglected to teach them how to log as every log they posted was basically a cut/paste and said the same thing "found months ago with XXXXXXX". If we weren't in day 6 of our ongoing rain storm I would go check the logs on some of the others they "found" just to verify. But I feel I was justified as the cache owner of deleting a log that had no proof of finding.

19k · May 8, 2009

I once hunted a multi in which the first stage had been reported muggled, but I went after it anyway. Discovered I could find stage two based on the description in the listing, then it was an easy find for the final. Did I cheat? No, I don't think so.

I've been tempted at times when I've spent over an hour on a shrub hunt to just go home and log a find. But my inherent honesty won't let me do that. I don't consider it a find until my name is on the log (and I don't care if someone else signs it for me - I usually sign for the group anyway).

I have had some multi out where I spent considerably more time & creativity on the stages than on the final (actually, all multis that I've ever put out would be like that) and as cache owner, I would have felt that you cheated both me, and yourself if you managed to get to the final without finding the stages that I worked so hard on.

May 10, 2009

I was looking for a traditional cache and couldn't find it. Turned out the published coordinates were off. Someone watching nearby pointed out what they thought I was looking for. That turned out to be the second to last waypoint of a nearby multi. So I was able to skip three waypoints and find the muli quickly. I've been ridden with guilt about it but feel so much better now that I've told someone. Thank you. :anitongue:

Then there was this one time...

May 14, 2009

Is there ?

We can answer our own question...

2 weeks ago we went out to one of our series, it's 18 caches, to check on all the containers because the park had just done a burn and a MAJOR tree trimming. While at the park we not only checked to make sure all of our containers were still around but decided to check for wet logs that might need replacement.

We live in an area that doesn't get lots and lots of visitors so we noticed something odd about the signatures almost immediately, starting with cache #1 in the series. We only noticed this particular person's signature because we've never seen it before. In the end, one particular cacher logged all 18 as finds on-line but only actually signed 3 of the logs.

Scary thing about that is they also logged our new 20 cache series that we haven't even revisited yet ! What do you think the chances are that they're signature IS NOT on the logs ?? I think the chances are EXCELLENT ! They also logged a single cache at another park where we have the single cache and a 17 cache series. We visited the single cache log and guess what ? That's right ! NO SIGNATURE FROM THE SAME CACHER !

So, just for the fun of it, when we went for our Saturday walk last weekend we said, "Let's visit each cache log again only this time, let's write down all the signatures that are on the logs and compare them to the on-line found logs." There was NO WAY ON EARTH we thought we'd find anything but we did. 2 more cachers logged the entire series but did not sign all the logs.

In the past when we brought up this same subject we got bombarded with replies like, "It's just a game," or ,"So what, who cares," or our particular favorite, "How can there be cheating when there aren't any rules?"

There are lots of ways to, "cheat," in Geocaching but when a cacher(s) logs finds on-line and doesn't sign the log(s) I would say THAT IS DEFINATELY CHEATING ! For one, it doesn't do, "the cheater," any good except to rack up numbers and complete the smileys in a given location. Two, it's not fair to those cachers who actually take the time, do the hike, hunt the cache and sign the log. Three, it's not fair to cache owners, wether it's a single cache or a series of 18, who take the time, sometimes over days, to place caches.

A lot of you will say what I stated above, "How can there be cheating when there are not rules ?" You're right, Geocaching doesn't have many rules but it does have ONE and that is YOU HAVE TO SIGN THE LOG TO CLAIM THE FIND ! When a cacher(s) violates that one rule, thereby cheating, they ARE NOT Geocachers because they cheat themselves, you and me !

It's so sad that someone would do this but it's the truth and it makes me wonder how many of you out there have NUMEROUS found logs posted on your hides where the person never even found your cache ! It happens more than you think because cachers are obsessed with racking up numbers more than they are about the challenge, the experience or the journey. If you don't care then you don't care about being part of a game/sport that's fair !

Edit: I wanted to add this... In one of the on-line logs from one of the other 2 cachers we discovered, "cheating," he talks about how it took him longer to find the cache than it should have blah-blah-blah and then he goes, "left a nice GC behind." Two days later another cacher comes along to the same cache FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SWAPPING GEOCOINS and guess what ? That's right ! NO GEOCOIN in the cache ! Gee, what a surprise isn't it ? She goes on and on about how the coin is missing and she hopes it wasn't stolen etc... He left the part about the geocoin because he knew his log was a lie and in his consciousness of guilt wanted to make his log look really legit. After all, what cache owner, who might question his post, would think he was "cheating," if he left a geocoin ? It's all so sad isn't it ? See how "cheating," affects others ??

Edited May 14, 2009 by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

6.5k · May 14, 2009

And yet you waited two weeks to post 'the rest of the story' after an opening post that was wide open to interpretation. Somehow I suspect that there is still more here.

The guidelines for listing a cache here give you all you needed to delete those logs without hesitation if you chose to.

Cache Maintenance

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

But instead you decided to start this thread for discussion. Just wondering-have you deleted those logs and properly maintained your caches, or just kicked a hornet's nest in here for drama and giggles? :unsure:

May 14, 2009

We'd like to thank everyone who replied to our topic and ask a moderator to lock this thread at their convenience. Happy Caching !! :unsure:

May 14, 2009

We'd like to thank everyone who replied to our topic and ask a moderator to lock this thread at their convenience. :unsure:

3.2k · May 14, 2009

And yet you waited two weeks to post 'the rest of the story' after an opening post that was wide open to interpretation. Somehow I suspect that there is still more here.

The guidelines for listing a cache here give you all you needed to delete those logs without hesitation if you chose to.

Cache Maintenance

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

But instead you decided to start this thread for discussion. Just wondering-have you deleted those logs and properly maintained your caches, or just kicked a hornet's nest in here for drama and giggles?

I think it is more likely that it was found by a group that signed with a group signature but posted individually. Common and quite legitimate, even by the rules guidelines.

Edited May 14, 2009 by baloo&bd

7.7k · May 14, 2009

I think it is more likely that it was found by a group that signed with a group signature but posted individually. Common and quite legitimate, even by the rules guidelines.

Aw, c'mon, why spoil a good outraged rant?

2.3k · May 15, 2009

We'd like to thank everyone who replied to our topic and ask a moderator to lock this thread at their convenience. Happy Caching !!

I would hope that they don't. The ability for people to lock their own threads was removed partly because the ability was abused by those who would post a parting shot and then lock a thread so others could not respond. The 2 recent responses by you smacks of that very thing.

April 1, 2010

I agree that the only thing that I would label 'cheating' is when someone logs a find on a cache that they didn't actually find. ...

With the caveat that we are newbies to geocashing, my preference would be to characterize the false posting of a find as a lie rather than cheating per se. This is not a value judgement, but simply a correlative distinction versus truth.

All of the responses to this thread have been enjoyable, my favorite being the one noting "there is no 't' in 'geocashing'". Yet as a newbie, the question leads me to consider the difference in connotation between "lying" and "cheating". Although related, cheating seems to imply a greater measure of personal gain.

The context for gain or loss implies a perspective. From our perspective as newbies, going out to find cashes for the sheer personal joy of the experience, or hiding one with the same motivations, it would be hard to lie to or cheat yourself.

However, there also appears to be another, socially-based perspective within which there is a continuum of perceived competition and statistical comparison. And within this context, lying and cheating are not only possible, but inevitable: This is why referees are part of all formal competitive sports, yet are not required by neighborhood kids playing ball together on a summer afternoon.

So, in summary, I think the question raises some meaningful considerations as to ones fundamental motivation. :laughing:

1.2k · April 1, 2010

Is there ?

We can answer our own question...

2 weeks ago we went out to one of our series, it's 18 caches, to check on all the containers because the park had just done a burn and a MAJOR tree trimming. While at the park we not only checked to make sure all of our containers were still around but decided to check for wet logs that might need replacement.

We live in an area that doesn't get lots and lots of visitors so we noticed something odd about the signatures almost immediately, starting with cache #1 in the series. We only noticed this particular person's signature because we've never seen it before. In the end, one particular cacher logged all 18 as finds on-line but only actually signed 3 of the logs.

Scary thing about that is they also logged our new 20 cache series that we haven't even revisited yet ! What do you think the chances are that they're signature IS NOT on the logs ?? I think the chances are EXCELLENT ! They also logged a single cache at another park where we have the single cache and a 17 cache series. We visited the single cache log and guess what ? That's right ! NO SIGNATURE FROM THE SAME CACHER !

So, just for the fun of it, when we went for our Saturday walk last weekend we said, "Let's visit each cache log again only this time, let's write down all the signatures that are on the logs and compare them to the on-line found logs." There was NO WAY ON EARTH we thought we'd find anything but we did. 2 more cachers logged the entire series but did not sign all the logs.

In the past when we brought up this same subject we got bombarded with replies like, "It's just a game," or ,"So what, who cares," or our particular favorite, "How can there be cheating when there aren't any rules?"

There are lots of ways to, "cheat," in Geocaching but when a cacher(s) logs finds on-line and doesn't sign the log(s) I would say THAT IS DEFINATELY CHEATING ! For one, it doesn't do, "the cheater," any good except to rack up numbers and complete the smileys in a given location. Two, it's not fair to those cachers who actually take the time, do the hike, hunt the cache and sign the log. Three, it's not fair to cache owners, wether it's a single cache or a series of 18, who take the time, sometimes over days, to place caches.

A lot of you will say what I stated above, "How can there be cheating when there are not rules ?" You're right, Geocaching doesn't have many rules but it does have ONE and that is YOU HAVE TO SIGN THE LOG TO CLAIM THE FIND ! When a cacher(s) violates that one rule, thereby cheating, they ARE NOT Geocachers because they cheat themselves, you and me !

It's so sad that someone would do this but it's the truth and it makes me wonder how many of you out there have NUMEROUS found logs posted on your hides where the person never even found your cache ! It happens more than you think because cachers are obsessed with racking up numbers more than they are about the challenge, the experience or the journey. If you don't care then you don't care about being part of a game/sport that's fair !

Edit: I wanted to add this... In one of the on-line logs from one of the other 2 cachers we discovered, "cheating," he talks about how it took him longer to find the cache than it should have blah-blah-blah and then he goes, "left a nice GC behind." Two days later another cacher comes along to the same cache FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SWAPPING GEOCOINS and guess what ? That's right ! NO GEOCOIN in the cache ! Gee, what a surprise isn't it ? She goes on and on about how the coin is missing and she hopes it wasn't stolen etc... He left the part about the geocoin because he knew his log was a lie and in his consciousness of guilt wanted to make his log look really legit. After all, what cache owner, who might question his post, would think he was "cheating," if he left a geocoin ? It's all so sad isn't it ? See how "cheating," affects others ??

On the geocoin...

Why so quick to jump to the conclusion that the person the said they left the coin...didn't???

I have had it happen to me where I left a coin...but the very next person that "logged" the cache said it wasn't there. It happens...let it go...

As for the caches and signatures...not everyone signs the caches with the same name all of the time...I have signed caches with my caching name...a group name...a name my brother and I used when we first started caching...so on and so forth...don't be so quick to jump a cacher...

To the multi thing...ever think that maybe their multiple logs were just a mistake...take some time and send them a polite email explaining that on your multi-caches, you only allow one log (though...I only allow one as well...and I would beleive the majority of the caching community is the same...there are some that allow more than one...). Maybe their first multi was one of those...

My parting shot...

People make mistakes...we can either take those mistakes and turn them into teaching moments...or we can ridicule someone for being human...either way...step back, take a breath and decide which path you want to take...

1.1k · April 1, 2010

Yes.

Any violation of (mostly) commonly held standards can easily be defined as cheating. No matter what the activity is. I think most cheating in Geocaching is cheating yourself of the opportunity to have fun, get exercise, learn something new, share with others, visit new places. Claiming to do what you have not done. We do not live in a vacumn - our actions do affect others. If only in some very small way. Even if it is just a demonstration of our actions towards others.

Well spoken, nothing to add.

April 1, 2010

In geocaching some cheating can and does affect others, but most of the time it is of no consequence.

What, degradation of geocaching is of no consequence???

OK, OK, I won't start that again. :laughing:

April 1, 2010

We can answer our own question...

I don't mean this to be contentious, but apparently you didn't read or at least didn't understand the reply I posted just prior to yours.

This is my position: Lying is one thing and cheating another. While I would agree that falsely posting a find is a lie under any rational interpretation, it is only cheating within the context of the statistical game many geocashers appear to be playing; a numbers game.

There is nothing wrong with this game inherently. But if anyone should decide to become engaged in such an activity with more than a trivial attachment to the outcome, then it should come as no surprise that without referees, "cheating" can and will inevitably occur. If absence of cheating is of supreme importantance to someone seeking competition with others, I would think that geocashing is probably not the best format to chose.

I think that whether or not cheating exists in geocashing depends upon ones perspective and orientation, and if one is so inclined as to interpret events as cheating, then the degree of consternation that will cause within them depends again upon their perspective and orientation. So I think this question of ones own special viewpoint should be taken into account in the discussion.

Luckily, this activity offers such a broad spectrum of avenues for participation that there is no right or wrong way to do it. And, again, luckily Carol and I have a viewpoint which completely divorces us from the competitive aspect of the activity, and that enables us to use it as a pleasant and rewarding diversion from other, more onerous activities in our lives.

PS - Thanks, TeamSeekandWeShalFind, so very much for all the wonderful experiences your cashes have provided us, and for your helpful advice. Your enthusiasm has really hooked us on this activity !! :laughing:

1.2k · April 1, 2010

We can answer our own question...

I don't mean this to be contentious, but apparently you didn't read or at least didn't understand the reply I posted just prior to yours.

This is my position: Lying is one thing and cheating another. While I would agree that falsely posting a find is a lie under any rational interpretation, it is only cheating within the context of the statistical game many geocashers appear to be playing; a numbers game.

There is nothing wrong with this game inherently. But if anyone should decide to become engaged in such an activity with more than a trivial attachment to the outcome, then it should come as no surprise that without referees, "cheating" can and will inevitably occur. If absence of cheating is of supreme importantance to someone seeking competition with others, I would think that geocashing is probably not the best format to chose.

I think that whether or not cheating exists in geocashing depends upon ones perspective and orientation, and if one is so inclined as to interpret events as cheating, then the degree of consternation that will cause within them depends again upon their perspective and orientation. So I think this question of ones own special viewpoint should be taken into account in the discussion.

Luckily, this activity offers such a broad spectrum of avenues for participation that there is no right or wrong way to do it. And, again, luckily Carol and I have a viewpoint which completely divorces us from the competitive aspect of the activity, and that enables us to use it as a pleasant and rewarding diversion from other, more onerous activities in our lives.

PS - Thanks, TeamSeekandWeShalFind, so very much for all the wonderful experiences your cashes have provided us, and for your helpful advice. Your enthusiasm has really hooked us on this activity !!

By the way...what you quoted...is not mine...not sayin'...just sayin'...

Did I read your post yes...did I feel the need to respond to your post...no...I responded to a prior post...my only problem was that I didn't see until after my post that you bumped an almost 1 year old thread...oh well...I thought the "conversation" looked familar...serves me right for not paying attention...

19k · April 1, 2010

You mean, this thread was not really re-opened as an April Fools Day prank? :laughing:

20.7k · April 1, 2010

I don't mean this to be contentious, but apparently you didn't read ...

wow. That wasn't contentious, at all. :laughing:

19k · April 1, 2010

I don't mean this to be contentious, but apparently you didn't read ...
wow. That wasn't contentious, at all.

For a second there, I thought you were quoting yourself!! <_<

April 1, 2010

Is there ?

No! It's a hobby, you can't betray another person, just yourself.

GermanSailor

1.2k · April 1, 2010

You mean, this thread was not really re-opened as an April Fools Day prank?

I wish it was...again, serves me right for not paying attention...

All knowing knower of chad...you mind if I borrow your glasses for a while...it might have helped in this situation...

19k · April 1, 2010

You mean, this thread was not really re-opened as an April Fools Day prank?

I wish it was...again, serves me right for not paying attention...

All knowing knower of chad...you mind if I borrow your glasses for a while...it might have helped in this situation...

I have a spare pair:

eye%20glasses%202.jpg

8.6k · April 1, 2010

I didn't see until after my post that you bumped an almost 1 year old thread...oh well...

:laughing: Seems to happening a lot, just recently. <_<

1.2k · April 1, 2010

You mean, this thread was not really re-opened as an April Fools Day prank?

I wish it was...again, serves me right for not paying attention...

All knowing knower of chad...you mind if I borrow your glasses for a while...it might have helped in this situation...

I have a spare pair:

Thanks!!!

.

BTW...I think I can see through clothing now...and some things should just not be seen!!!

:anicute: :laughing: :huh:

10.1k · April 1, 2010

You mean, this thread was not really re-opened as an April Fools Day prank?

I wish it was...again, serves me right for not paying attention...

All knowing knower of chad...you mind if I borrow your glasses for a while...it might have helped in this situation...

I have a spare pair:

Thanks!!!

.

.

.

BTW...I think I can see through clothing now...and some things should just not be seen!!!

There's a job for you in airport security!

April 2, 2010

There's a job for you in airport security!

How funny that you should suggest this!! I am facing retirement and while I wouldn't want to work for TSA, I actually have been thinking about putting in an application to Ohare and Miday to be the guy who watches the moving runways and is responsible for saying, "Caution. The moving walkway is ending. Caution. the moving walkway is ending. etc."

I know what you're thinking, it does sound somewhat boring. But in additon to helping countless travelers from possibly tripping, I would have plenty of time to think about geocashing in my spare time -- unlike in my present job.

4.8k · April 3, 2010

How funny that you should suggest this!! I am facing retirement and while I wouldn't want to work for TSA, I actually have been thinking about putting in an application to Ohare and Miday to be the guy who watches the moving runways and is responsible for saying, "Caution. The moving walkway is ending. Caution. the moving walkway is ending. etc."

I know what you're thinking, it does sound somewhat boring. But in additon to helping countless travelers from possibly tripping, I would have plenty of time to think about geocashing in my spare time -- unlike in my present job.

Not to mention all the hotties you can be checking out.

Edited April 3, 2010 by bittsen

3.2k · April 3, 2010

Cheating on any individual cache can only be defined by what the CO considers cheating. If he or she finds out about it.

I recently did a multi-cache where I used pure logic to solve the missing numbers in the final coordinates without visiting the first 4 parts of the cache to get the numbers properly. And I told the CO in my on-line log that I did it, but not how I did it.

Anyway, he was not real happy and suggested that I voluntarily delete my log. Which I did.

But did I really cheat?

I would say no. If it was solvable by not having to go to the first four parts, then maybe it just wasn't set up right - I would think extra effort should be made to make sure you can't do it that way. Otherwise, you just figured it out quicker than most - not cheating.

I agree. You solved the puzzle.. perhaps not in the way that the designer anticipated but still you solved it. Think of it this way... a teacher makes up a multiple choice question for a test and you answer it right, but for the wrong reason. How would you feel about it being marked wrong?

May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

20.7k · May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

I'd have to file that issue under 'who cares?'.

5.7k · May 14, 2010

I was recently searching #geocaching on Twitter and noticed a lot of tweets posting the final coords of puzzle/mystery caches. It's unlikely someone searching for the caches in question are going to look through Twitter to find the final coords, but I'd still be a little peeved if it were my cache.

Believe it or not, I do not use twitter. It is however, nice to know that there is this option available.

6.7k · May 14, 2010

"Do Bears Poop In The Woods"...Humans is Humans, and what won't they Do??

Amen

6.1k · May 14, 2010

Yes.

Any violation of (mostly) commonly held standards can easily be defined as cheating. No matter what the activity is. I think most cheating in Geocaching is cheating yourself of the opportunity to have fun, get exercise, learn something new, share with others, visit new places. Claiming to do what you have not done. We do not live in a vacumn - our actions do affect others. If only in some very small way. Even if it is just a demonstration of our actions towards others.

Humans are but mere cells of a single form of life. We fool ourselves into thinking that we are individuals, but the reality is that we are only part of a single life form. Everything we do is dependent on others, and affects others in some way. Perhaps if we could travel to another planet and be self sufficient, would we be prove to be distinct, but we cling to mother earth much like an infant clings to it's mother's bosom.

May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

Groundspeak has been in discussion with the cacher regarding this issue which is now in the past.

May 14, 2010

Humans are but mere cells of a single form of life. We fool ourselves into thinking that we are individuals, but the reality is that we are only part of a single life form. Everything we do is dependent on others, and affects others in some way. Perhaps if we could travel to another planet and be self sufficient, would we be prove to be distinct, but we cling to mother earth much like an infant clings to it's mother's bosom.

Off the rails we go...

You may joke, but there is an entire field of social scientists who look at society in this way. The idea is that society has a "genome" which involves "memes" instead of "genes", and the societal genome evolves over time.

Actually the internet has been a fascinating laboratory in which to study memetics. The instant connectivity has lead to very rapidly spreading memes that have actually taken over popular culture at times. What is really interesting is to look back at our history and see these memes play out through oral and written communication over tens or hundreds of years instead of the days and months it takes now.

10.2k · May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

Groundspeak has been in discussion with the cacher regarding this issue which is now in the past.

I'd have to file that under "someone does care" eh, SBell111?

Apparently Frog Central cares that 250 caches had ownership transferred for some kind of cheating stunt.

20.7k · May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

Groundspeak has been in discussion with the cacher regarding this issue which is now in the past.

I'd have to file that under "someone does care" eh, SBell111?

Apparently Frog Central cares that 250 caches had ownership transferred for some kind of cheating stunt.

The 'who cares?' comment was shorthand for 'how does this logging effect anyone else?'

Also, it is not clear whether TPTB actually care about the logging of the caches or if they actually care about the ownership trasfer for the sole purpose of logging the finds prior to archival. I suspect that it is the latter. If so, they continue to take their non-stance on people logging their own caches and are merely stepping out against the waste of their time in requesting a ownership transfer for caches that are only going to be nearly immediately archived. Which makes it not a 'cheating' issue.

Edited May 14, 2010 by sbell111

8k · May 14, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

Groundspeak has been in discussion with the cacher regarding this issue which is now in the past.

I'd have to file that under "someone does care" eh, SBell111?

Apparently Frog Central cares that 250 caches had ownership transferred for some kind of cheating stunt.

I might care that Groundspeak would waste their time "in discussion" with someone over this.

I tend to agree with sbell that no one should care if someone were to go through all the process of setting up a sock puppet account to adopt his own caches so they could log them before archiving them.

I do wonder why they went through this elaborate process, since you can log a find on your own cache. Why not just log the find and archive the cache and not adopt them to a sock puppet? Perhaps Groundspeak was "in discussion" with this person to tell how he could log his cache more efficiently next time.

3.4k · May 14, 2010

Geocachers are as varied as the posts in this thread (among others) and while the majority seem to be running in the same direction, usually abiding the forum guidelines, etc., now and then a squeak is heard from another direction and users pile on or avoid at their own discretion.

What matters to whom and when, well, Groundspeak aren't the police, nor the solicitors, nor courts, et al. They have the final word where they can, the rest is up to geocachers themselves and the limited ability to police the game as they can. Aside the situation in Rome, NY, other agencies seldom get involved. So far as I know there hasn't been a killing over a First to Find (or the winning cacher knew how to do a proper hide.)

There are misguided cachers, those who steal caches, hoard trackables, trespass to hide, trespass to find, violate park hours, etc. Thankfully they appear to be in the minority and geocaching support groups have sprung up to offer classes and advice.

May 14, 2010

Thankfully they appear to be in the minority and geocaching support groups have sprung up to offer classes and advice.

hi, i'm Bulldog and i'm a geocacher.

it's been 1 day since my last find.

6.1k · May 15, 2010

Humans are but mere cells of a single form of life. We fool ourselves into thinking that we are individuals, but the reality is that we are only part of a single life form. Everything we do is dependent on others, and affects others in some way. Perhaps if we could travel to another planet and be self sufficient, would we be prove to be distinct, but we cling to mother earth much like an infant clings to it's mother's bosom.

Off the rails we go...

You may joke, but there is an entire field of social scientists who look at society in this way. The idea is that society has a "genome" which involves "memes" instead of "genes", and the societal genome evolves over time.

Actually the internet has been a fascinating laboratory in which to study memetics. The instant connectivity has lead to very rapidly spreading memes that have actually taken over popular culture at times. What is really interesting is to look back at our history and see these memes play out through oral and written communication over tens or hundreds of years instead of the days and months it takes now.

I wasnt joking. I only added the smile to give the post less gravity.

Memes are pretty facinating, as well as watching trends come and go. People tend to pass along many memes without realizing it. Some people will do things based on unconscious interpretations of other memes. Take littering for example, there was a study that I read about how existing litter will rapidly trigger an increase in an area where there is alot of litter already. Areas which are pristine, rarely trigger someone to toss garbage. Although there are people who will always litter, and others who will never litter, the majority of litterers are varied based on how much garbage is out there. They are more likely to toss something out the window if the area is dirty already. They base their decisions on percieved notions of other people. When they do that, there is a fair amount of non-thinking involved, as if they are not really aware of their own actions, but rather having a meme eliciting some control over them. Another study showed that graffiti in an area will eventually trigger a rise in crimes. A bicycle left unattended in a spot where the researcher added graffitti is more likely to be stolen, than in the same spot without any graffiti.

Percieved respect has something to do with it, but there is memes at work also. Violent crime rates will often rise in spots where there is little control over small crimes. There are negative and positive memes which trigger actions, but at the same time imply that often people really do not have much independent thought and follow impulses sent out by others. Trends work the same way. The more people you see following a trend is more likely to influence you to follow it. Sometimes it's in word usage. Some words and grammar specifically are used in certain fields, but when introduced into another area, eventually will become a part of the vocabulary. Every action triggers a reaction somewhere. Many people do not realize that what they do is based on someone else's influence, and may in turn, be influencing others..

we decided it'd be a friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump. So we took the half a ton of garbage, put it in the back of a red VW microbus, took shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed on toward the city dump. Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across across thedump saying, "Closed on Thanksgiving". And we had never heard of a dump closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage. We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw our's down.

May 15, 2010

In just about every circumstance where one can consider a geocacher to be cheating, the only person who's hurt by having an ingenuous experience is the cacher who does it. It's up to them whether or not they can live with that. I didn't become a law enforcement officer because I don't have the disposition for it so becoming a "Geocaching Cop" is the least of my priorities.

6.1k · May 15, 2010

How about the cacher in UK who has transfered all his 250 odd caches to brand new account (supposedly not his) then logged finds on all of them with new owners permission and once he has logged them all they have been archived.

Just seem to me its not in the spirit of the game

Groundspeak has been in discussion with the cacher regarding this issue which is now in the past.

I'd have to file that under "someone does care" eh, SBell111?

Apparently Frog Central cares that 250 caches had ownership transferred for some kind of cheating stunt.

It's an odd situation. The cacher lost his hide count, but then gained it back in finds. I don't see how it would really affect anyone but him. I don't think that Groundspeak would care, but rather would be a secondary caring( they care because someone complained ) It would also appear that paid lackeys would be investigating, which indicates where tiny portion of the premium membership fees goes towards..

To some extent some find counts are not anyones business. Some people may advertise how many finds they have, but others feel that it really is not anybodys concern. I would like to see a feature that would block anyone from viewing your find count, list of finds, and gallery of pictures unless they were listed on your friends list. A lot of the fake finds angst would be eliminated that way.

3.3k · January 31, 2013

Cheating on any individual cache can only be defined by what the CO considers cheating. If he or she finds out about it.

I recently did a multi-cache where I used pure logic to solve the missing numbers in the final coordinates without visiting the first 4 parts of the cache to get the numbers properly. And I told the CO in my on-line log that I did it, but not how I did it.

Anyway, he was not real happy and suggested that I voluntarily delete my log. Which I did.

But did I really cheat?

You absolutely did not. You took the cache listing and using only your reasoning ability and knowledge of the game and local area to solve the multi without going through every earlier step. If the CO was mad, he should have modified the multi so as to make "shortcuts" impossible. I say your find was even better than a standard find.

I tried to shortcut a puzzle recently, and might have eventually succeeded. However, the CO gave me a hint on the puzzle and I solved that first. I logged my find and mentioned the kind assistance I received from the CO.

5.7k · January 31, 2013

I plan on attending a geocaching event tonight. Anyone out there want me to sign the log book for you so you can log attended? :laughing:

2k · January 31, 2013

I plan on attending a geocaching event tonight. Anyone out there want me to sign the log book for you so you can log attended?

hang my picture up on the international space station wall while you are at it.

7.9k · January 31, 2013

I plan on attending a geocaching event tonight. Anyone out there want me to sign the log book for you so you can log attended?

Sure, if you don't mind...

But per Jeremy, logbooks are not required at events, and the event organizers should not delete 'Attended' logs based on what isn't in the log if there is a log.

February 2, 2013

Yes they cheat! I believe LPC's are cheating - the lamp post are 100 feet apart and the GPS is accurate to 25 feet at Wally World. Wonder which one it would be. The cache itself is a spoiler! What about a guard rail - there are some many ends to choose from! With an Urban cache the muggles cheat you out of a hunt by being exactly where they are supposed to be and they don't even know they are part of the game. Couldn't sign the log cause I forgot my Pen!

The Prize is the experience and cheater cheats themselves out of it, thinking they are having fun.

10.2k · February 2, 2013

Yes, they do.

And who keeps bumping the OP's threads?

And my Greasemonkey script to put a shirt on Team Cotati's avatar doesn't seem to work anymore. :mad:

Is there cheating in geocaching ?

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