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Google Earth add-in removed


adrian.rutter

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Good one GOF! Let us just be honest with observations - to me it appears it has to do with protecting the database and thus the stranglehold. Too much data was released with the GE KML and some hacker could set up shop in some country where the laywers of GS could not touch and thus competition - no more monopoly. Oh well, perhaps not - but a real answer from TBTB besides the cryptive ones given so far would go a long way to putting this to rest. More likely I think they like controversy and are sitting back laughing good and hard watching this thread. Controvesy is part of the mystic of Groundspeak creation - no?

 

I love it!

The KML introduces a random error into the cache locations. This was probably done just for the reasons you speculate about. I would be very easy to use the Google Earth KML interface to download ten of thousands of caches, but you would get bad coordinates so this would be somewhat useless. In addition you don't get the logs or the full description of the cache. TPTB seemed to have already solved the problem of protecting their database from hackers who would use the KML interface to copy large amounts of data. So this is not the reason for them to abandon it.

 

If I wanted to speculate about a reason - other than site performance which is what TPTB say the reason is - I would say the amount of time spent on maintenance. I could probably find dozens of forum post on how this functionality broke everytime Google released a new version of Google Earth. Generally it was a minor glitch, such as the geocache icons being replaced by a generic pushpin. It seems that Google would release new code without informing all the providers of KML data that might be affected. (I thought only little companies release new code without testing all the applications that would be affected :lol: ) Generally this meant that the limited programming resources at Groundspeak had drop whatever they were doing to fix the KML file. Often they needed help from robertlipe (GPSBabel) to figure out some minor syntax tweek to the KML that caused it to stop working. I'd speculate that they just got tired of having to fix things every time Google makes a change.

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I'll also say that the coolest part of KML was just being able to randomly "spin the globe" and see what kind of geocaches were around that area. I was explaining geocaching to my mother-in-law (who is of Norwegian heritage) and when she mused whether there were any caches near some fjord in Norway, I just punched in the fjord name in GE and it took us to that location and then a bunch of caches popped up. I've done this over and over with friends and family and they always get a kick out of it. Losing that kind of spontaneous tie to the geocache data is really too bad.

 

I have stories like that as well... My very best friend just moved last winter to Michigan from Nevada. He went from 90 degree days to snow storms! :blink: He had all his belongings put on a Mayflower moving truck, while he flew to Michigan. He lived for a few days in a hotel with nothing but his laptop. I was keeping him company via IMs, but that only helps a little.

 

I asked him if he wanted to get out of the hotel for awhile. The four walls were driving him crazy! I looked up virtual caches within 3 miles of his hotel room. We got two or three a day until his furniture came. It was a lot of fun and I finally got him introduced to geocaching.

 

He thought it was so cool that I could look up caches in HIS town from MY house. :huh: I thought it was kinda nice too. I just can't understand why GS took this feature offline, unless it was to "make room" for their "jr" gps. (Only $70.00 - get yours now!)

 

-= Dewski =-

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OK - so not knowing any fjord names, I googled and found Rogaland. Since the nearby town is Hjelmeland and Google Earth plops "Rogaland, Norway" in the middle of a fjord, I would safely say that's the name of a fjord.

 

I went to Geocaching.com/seek and put Rogaland, Norway into the address line and clicked search. That centered the search on N 59° 08.937 E 006° 00.861 - EXACTLY the same spot that Google Earth placed as Rogaland, Norway. Then I was one click away from the "Map It" feature which - when zoomed out - got me this page.

 

While it's not "spinnning the globe," I believe that the "Address" field on the seek does a whole lot more than people give it credit.

Edited by Markwell
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I travel a lot for work, and like to Geocache along the route. I always use Google earth to export a KML file that I bring into GC.com to build a pocket Queries, Find Caches Along a Route. Does the mean I will no longer be able to do this? If this is the case then I am very upset, as I use it all the time! How else can I find caches between here and there within a reasonable distance from the highway? This function was one of the main reasons I got a paid membership!

Please tell me I am misunderstanding this and I will still be able to cache along a route from Google Earth.

 

Nope that feature is not going away.. actually it's being improved.. very soon you'll see that you have the ability to create routes directly on the site with no need to upload a KML file.

 

-Raine

 

Thank you! One of the great feature I enjoy when I travel. Makes my life easier.

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OK - so not knowing any fjord names, I googled and found Rogaland. Since the nearby town is Hjelmeland and Google Earth plops "Rogaland, Norway" in the middle of a fjord, I would safely say that's the name of a fjord.

 

I went to Geocaching.com/seek and put Rogaland, Norway into the address line and clicked search. That centered the search on N 59° 08.937 E 006° 00.861 - EXACTLY the same spot that Google Earth placed as Rogaland, Norway. Then I was one click away from the "Map It" feature which - when zoomed out - got me this page.

 

While it's not "spinnning the globe," I believe that the "Address" field on the seek does a whole lot more than people give it credit.

 

Markwell, but hit print preview in your browser and see the mess you get.

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OK - so not knowing any fjord names, I googled and found Rogaland. Since the nearby town is Hjelmeland and Google Earth plops "Rogaland, Norway" in the middle of a fjord, I would safely say that's the name of a fjord.

 

I went to Geocaching.com/seek and put Rogaland, Norway into the address line and clicked search. That centered the search on N 59° 08.937 E 006° 00.861 - EXACTLY the same spot that Google Earth placed as Rogaland, Norway. Then I was one click away from the "Map It" feature which - when zoomed out - got me this page.

 

While it's not "spinnning the globe," I believe that the "Address" field on the seek does a whole lot more than people give it credit.

Effective, yes. But Dewski did it in ONE STEP, probably in a significantly smaller bit of time.

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The important point is that GE was negatively impacting user experience out of proportion to its usefulness.

Perhaps this has already been asked but can you expand on this a little because to be quite frank, I fail to see how this can be the case unless there is/was some horribly inefficient code generating the KML. At the end of the day, the KML Overlay is/was a location search like any other - it boils down to asking the database server to 'return the caches near location X'. The only thing that's different is the presentation layer. Instead of output in HTML (for bog standard location searches) or JSON for the Google Map, the output is a KML document. If it's the KML builder that's causing the slow-down, might I suggest a better solution might be to resolve the bottleneck within it rather than just axing a useful feature.

 

I feel that once folks get past the mourning period and start exploring other options you'll all be much happier. I am very sorry for those of you whose routine has been disrupted by this change. I know what that's like. I would just encourage you to adapt to a new way of Geocaching so you can get past this and back to enjoying the game. We'll get back to making the site better.

:P I'm sure I'm echoing what's already been said here but the problem is not that you're "changing the routine", but that you're removing one of the site's most useful features. Sure, there are alternatives but none of them are as slick, easy to use and responsive as the KML Overlay. Further, those that want to continue to use GE to find caches they wish to hunt will now have to perform a PQ (GE opens GPX files quite happily and seems to understand the Groundspeak namespace to boot) but I'm sure I these extra PQs probably negate the performance gain from axing the KML Overlay :unsure:

 

(Edited to fix broken quote tags :ph34r:)

Edited by JeremyR
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The important point is that GE was negatively impacting user experience out of proportion to its usefulness.

Perhaps this has already been asked but can you expand on this a little because to be quite frank, I fail to see how this can be the case unless there is/was some horribly inefficient code generating the KML. At the end of the day, the KML Overlay is/was a location search like any other - it boils down to asking the database server to 'return the caches near location X'. The only thing that's different is the presentation layer. Instead of output in HTML (for bog standard location searches) or JSON for the Google Map, the output is a KML document. If it's the KML builder that's causing the slow-down, might I suggest a better solution might be to resolve the bottleneck within it rather than just axing a useful feature.

 

I feel that once folks get past the mourning period and start exploring other options you'll all be much happier. I am very sorry for those of you whose routine has been disrupted by this change. I know what that's like. I would just encourage you to adapt to a new way of Geocaching so you can get past this and back to enjoying the game. We'll get back to making the site better.

:P I'm sure I'm echoing what's already been said here but the problem is not that you're "changing the routine", but that you're removing one of the site's most useful features. Sure, there are alternatives but none of them are as slick, easy to use and responsive as the KML Overlay. Further, those that want to continue to use GE to find caches they wish to hunt will now have to perform a PQ (GE opens GPX files quite happily and seems to understand the Groundspeak namespace to boot) but I'm sure I these extra PQs probably negate the performance gain from axing the KML Overlay :unsure:

 

(Edited to fix broken quote tags :ph34r:)

 

Well spoken but in the end I think futile. The frog has spoken and they have made it quite clear that they do not care if it was a better tool. It matters not that so many have pointed out that perhaps making a change in the way the KML was generated or implemented may have been a better solution. They have made it abundantly clear that they don't care to explain what the root of the problem was. TPTB are quite happy to say "Site performance" and leave it at that.

 

Me, I used to use my PQs as needed. As I was preparing to go caching I ran a fresh one and went with it. Now I am going to start using every one I can. Five a day. I will most likely delete 95 percent of them unopened but as long as I have paid for them I am going to give the server what little hit I can. I encourage the rest of you to do likewise. Will it help? I doubt it. Will it have enough of an impact to make 'em pay attention? Not likely. But we won't know if we don't try.

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I guess that I am one of the 200 using Google Earth to plan my cache days. I just had to re-do my main computer and of course it doesn't show the caches on Google Earth anymore. My other computer still appears to work as before. Some of the new features added I will not be using so I vote for the Google Earth KML to return. :laughing:

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Okay folks, I think I've figured something out. Tolerate my thinking here if you will.

 

Open a new browser then open a new page of geocaching.com.

 

On the first page in the first bar you have the opportunity to 'enter your postal code'.

 

As you enter the following examples in that box, make a mental note of how long it takes and on a piece of paper write down your query location name and the number of geocaches returned, then, Open the "Map it" box above the list that was returned. zoom in or out until you see some caches. if more that one page of caches go to the second page and view some.

 

Here's the hard part......

 

First enter the name: "Mutitjulu" (without the quotes) remember to keep notes. Open the "Map it" box above the list that was returned. zoom out until you see the caches. then change the map to "Satelite" and then explore that Image

 

Second, type in the name: "London, England" and do the same. (remember the time lapse and numbers of sites returned.

 

Third, type in "Lisbon, Portugal" and do the same.

 

Fourth, type in "Barker Ranch, CA" then do the same.

 

Fifth, type in "Goleta, CA" .... you know the routine now.

 

Sixth, type in your city, state or city country, and do the same.

 

Last, type in "98101" and make your notes.

 

Try a couple other places or addresses if you wish... and keep your notes.

 

Total your number of queries tested, total your number of caches returned.

 

((Some of you have already figured it out, haven't you?))

 

Here are the lessons learned:

 

1. The Groundspeak search engine works really fast, and I mean it, really, its fast and it is pretty smart too!

 

2. The search results returned for each of the above tests are based on a centroid lat/lon and a 25 mile radius circle. [40km for the geographically challenged] << that's funny.

 

3. All cache types are included in the list returned, including your found caches (if any).

 

4. You have a total of at least 5,500 caches from this test.

 

In conclusion, on the last list you pulled up, just below the "Map It" box, using a red pencil, write the words "Send KML"

 

Have you figured it out yet?

 

Okay, here's a hint.

 

Each of your queries returned all the information you need to map every cache location. (except Premium if not a member)

 

Everything was neatly listed from your central point out to 25 miles in all directions. ( 40km )

 

Now, if you press that little red "Send KML" box, it will open all those caches in Google Earth on your computer.

 

Finally: For GS computers to generate a KML on the fly, while generating your list, would take less than a second or two, sending that KML (if requested) might take a couple more seconds.

 

You've effectively eliminated the need to do a pocket query. Thus substantially reducing the load on GS computers. The work was already done on your first request.

 

I ran dozens of these queries, all returned in three seconds or so, if the KML were written and sent to you only on request. (remember you can generate the KML on the fly with the list) The same mapped results from pocket queries would take you several days to accomplish. With that KML opened on your computer in Google Earth, you can pan and zoom to your hearts content without needing GS computers to do any addition work until your next query.

 

Then of course we've also virtually eliminated the additional load on the GS servers by not having to draw thousands of "Map It" requests every day. (Millions maybe!) PQs reduced to a really small number, maybe even 200 per day?

 

LAST NOTE: 200 users is equal to about .002% of all reported "Found" caches in the past seven days.

 

Thanks for listening. :laughing:

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Thank you Master_Dirt. This is the kind of input that tries to help resolve the issues.

 

If on the search page where there is now a Map It icon there was also a View in Google Earth link and/or on the Gecocaching Maps page there was a link "View in Google Earth", one could easily use the current search features to quickly find caches anywhere in the world. You could even use pan and zoom on the Geocaching Maps to explore and area. When you want to see these caches in Google Earth, if you could just click a link to download a static KML file that will launch Google Earth for most people who have Google Earth installed, then you would see the caches in Google Earth without it costing you a PQ to get a GPX file. Since this is a static file that doesn't update as you pan and zoom Google Earth, the load on the Geocaching.com servers is minimal (no more that displaying the caches in Google Maps). Perhaps TPTB will see this idea and implement it as an alternative to the networked (dynamic) KML file.

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We used the Google Earth feature daily. We always double checked it to see where caches were. Any trips we take we plan using the Google Earth feature. It was the easiest way to see how many caches were in any given area. It is much much faster than the map feature on the geocaching listing pages. I can't believe that only 200 people were using this feature. All of our geocaching friends here were using it. I am so annoyed and saddened that this feature has been taken away.

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Okay folks, I think I've figured something out. Tolerate my thinking here if you will.

 

[...a detailed set of instructions for searching using the existing Map It feature over and over with different searches]

 

In conclusion, on the last list you pulled up, just below the "Map It" box, using a red pencil, write the words "Send KML"

 

[...]

 

Now, if you press that little red "Send KML" box, it will open all those caches in Google Earth on your computer.

 

 

MD, this was extremely confusing (to me, at least). It sounds like you're talking about a hypothetical, as-yet-nonexistent Send KML button that could be added to the site to send Map It results straight to Google Earth ???

 

If so, that's a nice idea. It wouldn't make browsing for caches and routes as easy as with the Google Earth KML add-in, but it would help.

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Yes Urubu....I was confused too on that as well. I guess that's what Master Dirt was suggesting.....that they add this red "SEND KML" button.

 

Sounds like to me the: "Reinstate the KML's" out weigh the "Remove the KML's" !

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OK - so not knowing any fjord names, I googled and found Rogaland. Since the nearby town is Hjelmeland and Google Earth plops "Rogaland, Norway" in the middle of a fjord, I would safely say that's the name of a fjord.

 

I went to Geocaching.com/seek and put Rogaland, Norway into the address line and clicked search. That centered the search on N 59° 08.937 E 006° 00.861 - EXACTLY the same spot that Google Earth placed as Rogaland, Norway. Then I was one click away from the "Map It" feature which - when zoomed out - got me this page.

 

While it's not "spinnning the globe," I believe that the "Address" field on the seek does a whole lot more than people give it credit.

Effective, yes. But Dewski did it in ONE STEP, probably in a significantly smaller bit of time.

 

Steps if you didn't have to validate:

Go to

  1. Go to Geocaching.com/seek (same as Opening Google Earth)
  2. Type Rogaland, Norway, click search (same as typing it in Google Earth and hitting "Enter")
  3. Click map it (if you had GE set to only refresh manually, same as refreshing manually - if not then, yes - this is one extra click)

How is this more steps in a smaller time?

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How is this more steps in a smaller time?

Point is not that the GC.com Google Map page requires more 'steps' than GE but that it is buggy (sometimes the popup cache info balloons simply don't work), frequently slow and cumbersome (those two are flaws with the Google Maps API not GC.com) and generally less convenient to use than GE + GC.com KML Overlay.

 

I personally feel that it would have been better to iron out the performance and functionality wrinkles in the Google Maps implementation before pulling the plug on the KML overlay.

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How is this more steps in a smaller time?

Point is not that the GC.com Google Map page requires more 'steps' than GE but that it is buggy (sometimes the popup cache info balloons simply don't work), frequently slow and cumbersome (those two are flaws with the Google Maps API not GC.com) and generally less convenient to use than GE + GC.com KML Overlay.

 

Problems with the GC.com are not what Road Rabbit complained about. He indicated that my method was not one step and took significantly more time.

 

Dewski did it in ONE STEP, probably in a significantly smaller bit of time.

 

I was responding to that post - not the whole "should we have a KML or not" arguement.

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If I wanted to speculate about a reason - other than site performance which is what TPTB say the reason is - I would say the amount of time spent on maintenance. I could probably find dozens of forum post on how this functionality broke everytime Google released a new version of Google Earth. Generally it was a minor glitch, such as the geocache icons being replaced by a generic pushpin. It seems that Google would release new code without informing all the providers of KML data that might be affected. (I thought only little companies release new code without testing all the applications that would be affected :huh: ) Generally this meant that the limited programming resources at Groundspeak had drop whatever they were doing to fix the KML file. Often they needed help from robertlipe (GPSBabel) to figure out some minor syntax tweek to the KML that caused it to stop working. I'd speculate that they just got tired of having to fix things every time Google makes a change.

 

Google Earth is tested better than you'd believe. What got this site into trouble so much with successive releases of Earth was that the KML it emitted was _wrong_. While it it often worked (in the same sense that I can use incorrect grammar and you can usually understand what I meant) it worked *differently* in successive versions because it was so brittle. I definitely didn't get the impression that Groundspeak "dropped whatever they were doing to fix the KML" - there were cases it was broken for more than a year even after I'd explained that what was needed to fix it was simple changes to constant strings in the headers.

 

robertlipe of GPSBabel is very attuned to Earth's release cycle. I haven't had to bump GPSBabel's KML handler for incompatibilities in a very long time. I often do rev it around the time Earth is released to either make public a feature that Google needed and developed for Earth (Earth uses GPSBabel for GPS support and a few other things, like GPX import including the spiffy geocache handling) or to better use new features of Earth. For example, Earth 5 includes the ability for a program to force the time sliders to open up. GPSBabel changed to use that so now when you plop your PQ or tracks into Earth, you see all the data and not just the earliest.

 

As long as we're speculating... While it may be that any amount of maintenance was more than they wanted to spend, I don't believe that the "yellow pushpin problem" was the ticket. I'd much more believe that the computational cost of running effectively a PQ on demand was slapping their hardware around. Why is it more expensive than the comparable Google Map query? In theory, it probably shouldn't be, but it had a large head start, so perhaps it was just developed in a less efficient way.

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I actually just upgraded to a premium membership solely because I wanted access to the Google Earth KML feature. Imagine my chagrin to find out that it's gone.

 

I'm not demanding my money back or anything - what's done is done - but it's quite disappointing that what I personally thought would be the most useful feature of premium membership isn't available.

 

And if only 200 people regularly used the Google Earth KML, then I am Marie of Roumania.

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I actually just upgraded to a premium membership solely because I wanted access to the Google Earth KML feature. Imagine my chagrin to find out that it's gone.

 

I'm not demanding my money back or anything - what's done is done - but it's quite disappointing that what I personally thought would be the most useful feature of premium membership isn't available.

 

And if only 200 people regularly used the Google Earth KML, then I am Marie of Roumania.

I did the same thing today, hoping for the same results. :huh:

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For what it's worth, I am also a frequent GE kml user who is very disappointed to see it terminated. Please allow us to continue using this feature. There is obviously a large enough segment of your customers who want it back to justify the time and expense in fixing it and maintaining it.

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It's quite obvious that the majority of people here, want the KML overlay back.

For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing. I know it's not a vote, but shouldn't GC re-evaulate

this and all our posts, again, to see if they can come up with a solution to bring it back for

us...instead of just dropping it altogether? Maybe they are reconsidering ???

Would like to hear what some of the moderator's or techs "on the inside" have to say now,

and if they know if they are possibly thinking about ths at all. ???

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For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing.

Those who didn't use the Geocaching KML are likely to have an opinion about page load speed and database responsiveness.

 

It's a truism that people who aren't upset about something are unlikely to post in a forum about that. This does not mean that they don't have an opinion, or that their views aren't important.

 

Count me as one person who found the KML and Google Earth inferior to the online cache maps. I would rather have improved site performance.

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It's quite obvious that the majority of people here, want the KML overlay back.

Well, there are 229 posts in this thread. And not all of them are in favor of wanting it back. And there have been (to date) 4,641 views of the thread. Plus there are several hundred thousand cachers, so I would think that the evidence thus far does not support your conclusion. Not saying that it is or isn't true, but there's no evidence right now.

For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing.

Those who didn't use the Geocaching KML are likely to have an opinion about page load speed and database responsiveness.

Edited by Motorcycle_Mama
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I find the back and forth between the people who want the KML back without any change from what it was and the people with frog poop on their faces who think that Groundspeak can do no wrong and support the total removal of the KML without considering the effect it had on more than 200 people who used it from time to time to plan their geocaching a waste of the forum bandwidth. Perhaps if this is the reason I get timeouts on my forum posts so often.

 

Instead we should be hearing from the people who used the KML just what they used it for and why it was better than the Geocaching Google Maps or using Pocket Queries. Then others could explain how to accomplish the same thing using the tools that are still available. We could discuss compromises that allow using Google Earth in different ways that are less intrusive on Geocaching.com resources. But instead of discussing what can be done, you all want to shout and whine about missing your favorite feature or you respond that you don't care about the 200 chindlren who miss their KML, you just like the better responsiveness of the site (which you can't actually quantify and don't really know if it is because fewer people are using the KML). When you start to talk to each other let me know. In the meantime, I'm going geocaching.

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The KML was an easy way to keep the not so techie people like me involved. It takes me about 5 minutes to get all the questions on the pocket query page correct...it mostly gives me a big fat error message.

Then I have to wait at least 15 to 20 minutes for an email of what I searched for and hoping it was correct.

 

The KML doohickie is very easy for me to use.

 

I believe I share that opinion with many people....

 

PS I am three of the 200...laptop at work, old laptop at home, and desktop at home...

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For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing.

Those who didn't use the Geocaching KML are likely to have an opinion about page load speed and database responsiveness.

 

It's a truism that people who aren't upset about something are unlikely to post in a forum about that. This does not mean that they don't have an opinion, or that their views aren't important.

 

Count me as one person who found the KML and Google Earth inferior to the online cache maps. I would rather have improved site performance.

And this "improved site performance" will be noticeable by whom? And will be noticeable when?

I actually thought the site worked pretty smoothly for quite a while now, a couple of years ago it was crap, I'll give you that.

I honestly don't believe there will be any detectable improvement by removing this feature. Regardless of what some non KML users have proposed, there is no real viable alternative available to achieve the same results.

Some very innovative solutions have been proposed that could very well work but if they are being considered none of the customers seem to be informed of it.

 

Wait, don't tell me, I get another two week vacation for sassing a mod?

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I just became a premium member, thinking I would find the kml link again. It was still gone, so i instead did a pocket query, opened the results with GE, and am much happier with the results. GE's working faster now.

I'm much happier with this option than I was using the old kml program.

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I guess I'm 1 of the 200 that used the GE KML file to find caches when we go TDY, and when I took my family to China and other places. It was so much easier to find caches then looking at GC for a cache and then going to the slow map page and looking for the area we are traveling to. So I guess are $30 a year is going to a better cause, which is ????? maybe it is going to pay rent for a bigger place for the new servers that Groundspeak might get. That is my 2 yen.

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For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing.

Those who didn't use the Geocaching KML are likely to have an opinion about page load speed and database responsiveness.

 

It's a truism that people who aren't upset about something are unlikely to post in a forum about that. This does not mean that they don't have an opinion, or that their views aren't important.

 

Count me as one person who found the KML and Google Earth inferior to the online cache maps. I would rather have improved site performance.

 

I've seen no site improvement. Is it something we can expect in the next week? Month?

 

Edit to add that the only thing on the site that I use that every gives me trouble is the maps. Slow, notchy, and annoying. If we are stuck with it it would be nice if it worked.

Edited by gof1
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(snip)

Edit to add that the only thing on the site that I use that every gives me trouble is the maps. Slow, notchy, and annoying. If we are stuck with it it would be nice if it worked.

 

Exactly! So much so that there is no comparison between the two. Do a print preview on the gs google map page it is a mess. Thank goodness for the GME plugin and GSAK.

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Back from my three day ban. Glad to see there's still some chatter in here....

 

There's one thing that we might be overlooking here:

 

The Geocaching kml doesn't use any more bandwith than the Geocaching maps page. I'd be willing to guess the API uses MORE, because you can also filter the data by your finds, or your hidden caches etc. This caues more manipulation of the data before finishing the query.

 

But here's what we're all missing, Groundspeak can't do this on Google Earth:

 

ads.jpg

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For those who didn't use it, have no reason, to not want it back, so their input on

the matter shouldn't mean a thing.

Those who didn't use the Geocaching KML are likely to have an opinion about page load speed and database responsiveness.

 

It's a truism that people who aren't upset about something are unlikely to post in a forum about that. This does not mean that they don't have an opinion, or that their views aren't important.

 

Count me as one person who found the KML and Google Earth inferior to the online cache maps. I would rather have improved site performance.

 

With all due respect, I (still) don't see any "improved site performance" due to removing the Geocaching KML files. I didn't see the site as sluggish or lacking anything BEFORE, and I still don't see any changes AFTER. So, I guess the same argument remains: If there aren't any significant changes to be seen before or after, then why not continue a feature that so many people used and enjoyed? Just my two cents. :)

 

-= Dewski =-

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Groundspeak can't advertise on Google Earth, that's what it has to do with it! Keep the traffic on your site, you can make more money, can't you?

 

You pointed to an Ad in the forum.. Have you seen an increase of Ad's on the map page?

 

-Raine

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Groundspeak can't advertise on Google Earth, that's what it has to do with it! Keep the traffic on your site, you can make more money, can't you?

 

You pointed to an Ad in the forum.. Have you seen an increase of Ad's on the map page?

 

-Raine

Are there ads on the map page? If there are then I see what they are saying. Interesting...

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Well, if the ads aren't there now, then I gues that's how it will stay forever and ever! There is a small ad on the map page. Don't worry though, there's plenty of room for more...

 

I also feel that the only reason for the removal of the kml is to keep people on the gc website and promote higher ad revenue. There is already a banner ad there as well as the commission geocaching.com receives from maps purchases at mytopo.com. I would also expect to see more ads. There is nothing wrong with this, companies need to find new sources of revenue in hard times. GC.com also needs to generate money to cover resources used by the free user accounts.

 

However, if this is the case I wish that the authorities would consider offering the kml for an additional fee. I would be happy to pay $5 a year for the use of the kml which would likely be more revenue than they would generate for the fraction of a cent they are likely receiving for each view of the banners. I hate to promote more membership tiers but I would hate to see the kml removed for good. I feel it is a definite step backwards for the sport. A lot of people like this hobby for the high tech aspect of it and Google Earth offers a lot of useful tools.

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Am I missing something here? I just went to Google Earth, and the KLM caches show up just as they always have.

 

I used this feature earlier today to find some caches to look for.

 

Is the KLM feature being discussed here something else, or is my favorite program for finding caches, on it's way out? :):D:D:D:):(:PB)

 

Mine still works as well, I was just informed of this issue from a fellow cacher who said it was gone, I'm guessing ours still works because we saved it in google?

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Strange, I'm a first-time forumer here, and I probably never would have come here if the KML isn't discarded, although I've been premium member for some time now.

 

Just to bring in a new aspect: I was going to buy a new laptop because I used GE and the KML so extensively that it occasionally ran out of resources. Now I don't have to use GE any more, because without the KML it does not add too much to plain old google maps. So, Earthlink saved me 2 grands! :D

 

But seriously, add me to the 200, I will really miss this feature. This was the most awesome thing on GC.com :)

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