When to Use an Archive Note?

[+legacypac]

I found a cache that is inside an intersection. http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=19&mt=k Is this an acceptable placement? While everything is dangerous to a point, wandering into traffic with your nose in the GPS seems pointless.

 

Also what about caches that have been confirmed missing for more then a year?

 

Are there other examples?

[+Chrysalides]

I found a cache that is inside an intersection. http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=19&mt=k Is this an acceptable placement? While everything is dangerous to a point, wandering into traffic with your nose in the GPS seems pointless.

 

Also what about caches that have been confirmed missing for more then a year?

 

Are there other examples?

Safety for the cacher alone is not an acceptable reason for a SBA. I definitely would not file a SBA for that one. In any case, you should not be staring at the GPSr all the time, but glancing at it once in a while.

 

Confirmed missing for more than a year : depends. Confirmed by who? Even then I'd still log a NM instead.

 

In clear violations of the guidelines - maybe. On private property, without permission, and confronted by irate property owner - oh yes.

[+Sol seaker]

I found a cache that is inside an intersection. http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=19&mt=k Is this an acceptable placement? While everything is dangerous to a point, wandering into traffic with your nose in the GPS seems pointless.

 

Also what about caches that have been confirmed missing for more then a year?

 

Are there other examples?

 

I just found one that was just approved and in a very dangerous place. I e-mailed the person who had approved it and decided to let them decide. This one in particular might be Ok if they gave a clue and a better description of where it is. I did also leave a note for the cache owner.

 

I've contacted the person publishing the cache when it goes missing (and has been verified missing) for over a month. one was really making people mad. The owner would not reply even though many of us sent "needs maintence" requests. I found someone who had found it (e-mailed people who had logs for it) and found someone had gone back to show it to a friend and found it was gone. I had suspected as such, but got it confirmed and then talked to the publisher about it. Now it's temporarily unavailable to give the owner a chance to get a new cache set up, but now at least people aren't wasting their time looking for it. That owner hasn't logged on since 10/08 so they probably have abandoned it at this point. It will get archived after a month if the owner doesn't reply.

 

One cache recently got flooded when a sewer overflowed. The whole area is rank. The cache should be moved. I put that one in for archiving to get their attention fast. Most I just say "needs maintenance" if they need moving (like the one where the river took it) but that one was a health issue.

 

Usually I start with an e-mail to the cache owner if it is a bad issue. If they don't reply after a while, or after a couple e-mail and I see they haven't logged on for months, then I will go to the person who published that cache (or who is reviewing the caches in the area now if it is an old cache).

 

You can find the reviewer in an area by looking at the new caches in the area and see who reviews them now.

 

I wish people would consider the fact that GPS units are often off 23-80 feet when they are placing their caches. It's not just a matter of whether their cache is in a safe area, it's whether the search area is safe.

[+Jamie Z]

I wish people would consider the fact that GPS units are often off 23-80 feet when they are placing their caches. It's not just a matter of whether their cache is in a safe area, it's whether the search area is safe.

Safety is the responsibility of the cache seeker. Why should the cache hider have to tell you to be safe? How about some personal responsibility?

 

Jamie

[+beejay&esskay]

On private property, without permission, and confronted by irate property owner - oh yes.

 

Or even if the owner isn't irate, he just doesn't want a cache on his property.

 

(Multiple DNFs over a long period of time with ignored "Needs Maintenance" and the owner not showing any activity on the site has occasionally led me to post a SBA.)

[+legacypac]

I get that some caches are placed near dangerous areas and that is ok. A cache in the publicly accessable viewing area near a waterfall makes sense even if part of a normal search circle would put you out of bounds in the danger area.

 

I have a hide near the freeway - searchers obviously should stay behind the fence on the abandoned road.

 

My grandfather was nearly killed when hit by a truck as he walked across a crosswalk. He was being careful too. Add a GPS arrow to follow and a desire to "spot" the cache...

[+WRASTRO]

I found a cache that is inside an intersection. http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=19&mt=k Is this an acceptable placement? While everything is dangerous to a point, wandering into traffic with your nose in the GPS seems pointless.

 

Also what about caches that have been confirmed missing for more then a year?

 

Are there other examples?

I followed your link and had a look at the cache. I personally have no problem with the placement or with the write up for the cache. It seem to be pretty well disclosed. Anyone who isn't comfortable with the location shouldn't hunt for the cache. Just my opinion.

[Keystone]

I just found one that was just approved and in a very dangerous place.

1. Caches aren't "approved." They are published if they meet the site's listing guidelines. I publish many caches that I do not "approve of." One reason to avoid the word "approved" is to dispel any false sense that the listing service has endorsed the placement.

 

2. Read the listing guidelines top to bottom and try to find the word "safety" or "safe." You won't. You will see the word "danger" just once -- where the guidelines talk about how muggles perceive our activities as possibly being dangerous. The guidelines do not regulate safety; otherwise, I have a lot of terrain 5 caches to go archive.

[jholly]

I found a cache that is inside an intersection. http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=19&mt=k Is this an acceptable placement? While everything is dangerous to a point, wandering into traffic with your nose in the GPS seems pointless.

 

Also what about caches that have been confirmed missing for more then a year?

 

Are there other examples?

 

The one you point out is not really inside an intersection. It appears to be located on a pedestrian island in a cross walk. A magnetic nano stuck on a metal pole perhaps? Going to that location is no more dangerous than crossing the street at that location. I will agree there are probably better places.

 

Jim

[+legacypac]

I just found one that was just approved and in a very dangerous place.

1. Caches aren't "approved." They are published if they meet the site's listing guidelines. I publish many caches that I do not "approve of." One reason to avoid the word "approved" is to dispel any false sense that the listing service has endorsed the placement.

 

2. Read the listing guidelines top to bottom and try to find the word "safety" or "safe." You won't. You will see the word "danger" just once -- where the guidelines talk about how muggles perceive our activities as possibly being dangerous. The guidelines do not regulate safety; otherwise, I have a lot of terrain 5 caches to go archive.

 

Thanks for the good points Keystone. I've found a few caches I don't approve of either. There is no way for the site to regulate safety - and yes some caches are dangerous.

[chowder_head]

i'm still fairly new to the whole geo scene but this topic got me thinking about a certain cache that i've been to a few times without any success. there hasnt been anyone find this cache since the end of october 2008! what surprises me is that more people havent searched for it..or just not logged the DNF considering there is supposedly a geocoin as well as a TB there. the latest person to find it stated it could use another terrain point. what do i do!! i've already messaged the owner but havent heard back..it sbeen weeks now. ami just missing something somewhere and its maybe been removed? is that why no one appears to be searching for it?? the cache is GC16XJE if anyone has any ideas

[+WRASTRO]

i'm still fairly new to the whole geo scene but this topic got me thinking about a certain cache that i've been to a few times without any success. there hasnt been anyone find this cache since the end of october 2008! what surprises me is that more people havent searched for it..or just not logged the DNF considering there is supposedly a geocoin as well as a TB there. the latest person to find it stated it could use another terrain point. what do i do!! i've already messaged the owner but havent heard back..it sbeen weeks now. ami just missing something somewhere and its maybe been removed? is that why no one appears to be searching for it?? the cache is GC16XJE if anyone has any ideas

Have you tried contacting the cache owner? Nothing in the DNF logs gets me to thinking the cache is gone. Which of course means it is gone.

[chowder_head]

i'm still fairly new to the whole geo scene but this topic got me thinking about a certain cache that i've been to a few times without any success. there hasnt been anyone find this cache since the end of october 2008! what surprises me is that more people havent searched for it..or just not logged the DNF considering there is supposedly a geocoin as well as a TB there. the latest person to find it stated it could use another terrain point. what do i do!! i've already messaged the owner but havent heard back..it sbeen weeks now. ami just missing something somewhere and its maybe been removed? is that why no one appears to be searching for it?? the cache is GC16XJE if anyone has any ideas

Have you tried contacting the cache owner? Nothing in the DNF logs gets me to thinking the cache is gone. Which of course means it is gone.

 

yes i sent the owner a message a few weeks ago but havent heard anything back...i know hes logged onto the site tho

Edited April 22, 2009 by chowder_head

[+WRASTRO]

i'm still fairly new to the whole geo scene but this topic got me thinking about a certain cache that i've been to a few times without any success. there hasnt been anyone find this cache since the end of october 2008! what surprises me is that more people havent searched for it..or just not logged the DNF considering there is supposedly a geocoin as well as a TB there. the latest person to find it stated it could use another terrain point. what do i do!! i've already messaged the owner but havent heard back..it sbeen weeks now. ami just missing something somewhere and its maybe been removed? is that why no one appears to be searching for it?? the cache is GC16XJE if anyone has any ideas

Have you tried contacting the cache owner? Nothing in the DNF logs gets me to thinking the cache is gone. Which of course means it is gone.

 

yes i sent the owner a message a few weeks ago but havent heard anything back...i know hes logged onto the site tho

Any chance you can get a previous finder to check on the cache?

[+Happy Bubbles]

I was looking for caches near where I plan to go camping in a couple weeks, and found one I`m sorely tempted to post a "should be archived" log for. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-47b23b2e4613 It has never been found in the three years since it was hidden, the only logs are DNFs, and the owner hasn`t logged in since 2006. I don`t want to post SBA without having searched for it myself, but I don`t want to go out of my way to search for a cache that is 99% certain to be missing.

[chowder_head]

i'm still fairly new to the whole geo scene but this topic got me thinking about a certain cache that i've been to a few times without any success. there hasnt been anyone find this cache since the end of october 2008! what surprises me is that more people havent searched for it..or just not logged the DNF considering there is supposedly a geocoin as well as a TB there. the latest person to find it stated it could use another terrain point. what do i do!! i've already messaged the owner but havent heard back..it sbeen weeks now. ami just missing something somewhere and its maybe been removed? is that why no one appears to be searching for it?? the cache is GC16XJE if anyone has any ideas

Have you tried contacting the cache owner? Nothing in the DNF logs gets me to thinking the cache is gone. Which of course means it is gone.

 

yes i sent the owner a message a few weeks ago but havent heard anything back...i know hes logged onto the site tho

Any chance you can get a previous finder to check on the cache?

 

thats a definate possiblity...is there any sort of protocol tho for sending other cachers messages?

[+legacypac]

I was looking for caches near where I plan to go camping in a couple weeks, and found one I`m sorely tempted to post a "should be archived" log for. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-47b23b2e4613 It has never been found in the three years since it was hidden, the only logs are DNFs, and the owner hasn`t logged in since 2006. I don`t want to post SBA without having searched for it myself, but I don`t want to go out of my way to search for a cache that is 99% certain to be missing.

 

Sounds like a good candidate to archive to me. Seen a few like that in China. Get placed - bad coords, bad spot, or whatever - and never get found. Reviewer erik88l-r usually gets on top of the cache pages without caches that are just cluttering up the game as soon as he becomes aware of it.

 

The SBA note draws Reviewer attention to the cache. It MAY also draw owner attention to the cache IF they still get emails or still care. It also flags the cache for other seekers that maybe there is a problem with the cache and they better read the logs first.

 

To chowder-heads question: Protocal is be nice and polite when contacting other cachers. You are looking for a favor right? Many cachers are very happy to help you.

Edited April 22, 2009 by legacypac

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I was looking for caches near where I plan to go camping in a couple weeks, and found one I`m sorely tempted to post a "should be archived" log for. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-47b23b2e4613 It has never been found in the three years since it was hidden, the only logs are DNFs, and the owner hasn`t logged in since 2006. I don`t want to post SBA without having searched for it myself, but I don`t want to go out of my way to search for a cache that is 99% certain to be missing.

 

Sounds like a good candidate to archive to me. Seen a few like that in China. Get placed - bad coords, bad spot, or whatever - and never get found. Reviewer erik88l-r usually gets on top of the cache pages without caches that are just cluttering up the game as soon as he becomes aware of it.

 

The SBA note draws Reviewer attention to the cache. It MAY also draw owner attention to the cache IF they still get emails or still care. It also flags the cache for other seekers that maybe there is a problem with the cache and they better read the logs first.

 

To chowder-heads question: Protocal is be nice and polite when contacting other cachers. You are looking for a favor right? Many cachers are very happy to help you.

 

It looks like that cache is now archived. The reviewer archived it the same day that your SBA post was made.

 

Frankly I don't agree with this one. It's only had 3 DNFs. Although the compelling argument for archiving this case is due to an unresponsive owner a cache should not be arcvhived because it hasn't been found. The Shelter III cache, for example, was out for almost a year before it was found (with occasional searches bye large groups at a time) and accrued probably over 100 DNFs (and about as many notes) before i was finally found. It's only been found 3 times since April 2006 and has 195 *posted* DNFs.

 

While seeing a series of DNFs on a cache without a find on a cache might suggest that the cache is missing it also provides a bit of an incentive to look for it and have the satisfaction of finding something that nobody else seems to be able to locate. Since the owner of the cache in Japan (not China) is missing the cache may actually still be there.

[+StarBrand]

Any clear and flagrant violation of the guidelines should get a "Needs Archived" log from any responsible cacher. This includes maintenance guideline violations - when they are clear and long term.

[+The Blorenges]

I was looking for caches near where I plan to go camping in a couple weeks, and found one I`m sorely tempted to post a "should be archived" log for. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-47b23b2e4613 It has never been found in the three years since it was hidden, the only logs are DNFs, and the owner hasn`t logged in since 2006. I don`t want to post SBA without having searched for it myself, but I don`t want to go out of my way to search for a cache that is 99% certain to be missing.

 

So... It's been archived.

 

Now I really want Happy Bubbles to find it - Just to prove it was there after all!

 

MrsB

[+legacypac]

Another principle I've seen articulated here by TPTB is that every cache needs an owner. An owner that has not logged in after two years is not paying attention to the cache.

 

(Exceptions may be made for historic cache that have volunteers taking care of them.)

 

Shelter III is a very differant kind of deal. Established caching area. Active owner. Obviously a very tough hide. Not a good example of why we should not clean up the playing field of missing caches with MIA owners in Asia.

 

In Asia 3 DNFs logged over a period of several years is a pretty strong indication that it was not listed right, was never placed, got muggled, or something went very wrong. The reviewers make the calls - A SBA just brings it to the reviewer's attention, the cache owner's attention (if they even get email), and flags it to potential seekers as potentially a problem cache.

 

If you've ever crossed a city by taxi to try and get a find to fill in a new country on the map, only to find the cache has been missing for years, you would appreciate the efforts to clean up the playing field more.

[Clan Riffster]

I wish people would consider the fact that GPS units are often off 23-80 feet when they are placing their caches. It's not just a matter of whether their cache is in a safe area, it's whether the search area is safe.

Isn't that why Gaia made Darwinism? I own several caches that have the very real potential to kill anyone not bright enough to hunt carefully. I did make one concession: If someone gets themselves killed hunting for one of mine, I'll rename the cache in their honor, providing they have a kewl enough geonick.

 

To address your initial query:

When to Use an Archive Note?

I prefer to reserve the needs archived log type for special occasions, such as a cache that is no longer viable AND has an inactive owner.

Caches that obviously violate the guidelines also qualify for an SBA.

[+Chrysalides]

Isn't that why Gaia made Darwinism?

Time for Vinny to start a "Have you ever been killed while geocaching?" thread...

[+adt1982]

Isn't that why Gaia made Darwinism?

Time for Vinny to start a "Have you ever been killed while geocaching?" thread...

 

I have been, but only once.