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Caches Found by Non-Geocachers?


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It recently came to my attention that non-registered Geocachers can record their finds on geocaching.com. I found a new cache that had been left in plain sight, and had many log entries (and trash) from non-cachers who had happened across it. I cleaned it up, moved it a few feet to a hidden location, and logged my find.

 

Weeks later a FTF was logged by a new cacher that predated my find. This person was a non-registered cacher when they made the find, but they later registered with geocaching.com and made the log entry.

 

I don't care about the FTF, but my concern is that a person can record a log entry that is earlier than their membership join date. This just seems wrong to me as they were not a registered geocacher and had not agreed with the terms of service at the time they made their find. I feel that log entries should not be permitted for a date earlier than your join date.

 

Any comments?

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I see what you're saying, and understand 100%.

 

But at the same time, I also think that is should be OK, because a lot of people, even those who geocache as a hobby, may not know how it all works.

 

Three weeks ago, I thought geocaching was just finding things people had left in the woods, taking an item and leaving another, and moving on to the next one.

 

I had no idea it operated from a central website, on which every cache was logged, reviewed, approved, commented on, etc, etc.

 

Most people who have heard the term but never did the sport, I tend to think, would be right where I was.

 

Not until someone really gets into it and starts googling for more info will they come across GC.com or Groundspeak, and only then will they learn about the central connectivity and that there is some kind of order and "control" to the whole thing.

 

"OHHHH!!! That's how it works!!" is probably a pretty common thought to newcomers.

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Hey, a find is a find. If finding a cache on accident gets someone to log on and join rather than trash the cache, then good. What difference does it make whether the find or the join comes first?

 

I don't think "a find is a find".

 

Intentionally searching for and locating a specific geocache is quite different than accidentally finding that same cache.

Edited by geo climber
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Hey, a find is a find. If finding a cache on accident gets someone to log on and join rather than trash the cache, then good. What difference does it make whether the find or the join comes first?

 

I don't think "a find is a find".

 

Intentionally searching for and locating a specific geocache is quite different than accidentally finding that same cache.

Amazing! Congratulations are in order all around! Cheers! Bravo! The OP has managed to raise the bar in the ongoing "Finding inane and innocent everyday things that are also none of my business to worry about and complain about and then demand reforms" contest to a new high, a height totally unanticipated by any casual observer up till an hour ago! I offer my hearty congratulations!

 

In fact, I am so shocked and surprised at the level of creativity and resourcefulness exhibited by the OP in inventing this utterly amazing "new thing to worry about" that I am feeling a bit off-center, that is, off-keel, due to the excitement of the moment, and thus I shall forthwith, as soon as I hit the "SEND" button for this post, retire to my laboratory, whereupon I shall quaff a one pint mugful of radioactive water (from my radioactive water dispenser) enriched with radon and radon progeny, and which exhibits a radiance of over 190,000 pCi/L, in order to calm my nerves and return my organism to a state of utter psychophysiological coherence and inner quiet.

 

In fact, so great is the creativity and resourcefulness exhibited by the OP in discovering this long-ignored but extremely important issue that it strikes me that it is almost as if an occult hand had reached down from above and moved the players like pawns upon some giant chessboard. Will miracles never cease?

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Hey, a find is a find. If finding a cache on accident gets someone to log on and join rather than trash the cache, then good. What difference does it make whether the find or the join comes first?

 

I don't think "a find is a find".

 

Intentionally searching for and locating a specific geocache is quite different than accidentally finding that same cache.

 

Really? I didn't ever realize that Groundspeak had a way of logging "found it by being a completely lucky individual who happened to stumble upon a silver ammo can in the woods while out for a walk with the dog" or "found it with a great deal of work and struggle"? I was under the impression that it was "found it" or "didn't find it"? Am I missing something? :unsure:

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Hey, a find is a find. If finding a cache on accident gets someone to log on and join rather than trash the cache, then good. What difference does it make whether the find or the join comes first?

 

I don't think "a find is a find".

 

Intentionally searching for and locating a specific geocache is quite different than accidentally finding that same cache.

Amazing! Congratulations are in order all around! Cheers! Bravo! The OP has managed to raise the bar in the ongoing "Finding inane and innocent everyday things that are also none of my business to worry about and complain about and then demand reforms" contest to a new high, a height totally unanticipated by any casual observer up till an hour ago! I offer my hearty congratulations!

 

In fact, I am so shocked and surprised at the level of creativity and resourcefulness exhibited by the OP in inventing this utterly amazing "new thing to worry about" that I am feeling a bit off-center, that is, off-keel, due to the excitement of the moment, and thus I shall forthwith, as soon as I hit the "SEND" button for this post, retire to my laboratory, whereupon I shall quaff a one pint mugful of radioactive water (from my radioactive water dispenser) enriched with radon and radon progeny, and which exhibits a radiance of over 190,000 pCi/L, in order to calm my nerves and return my organism to a state of utter psychophysiological coherence and inner quiet.

 

In fact, so great is the creativity and resourcefulness exhibited by the OP in discovering this long-ignored but extremely important issue that it strikes me that it is almost as if an occult hand had reached down from above and moved the players like pawns upon some giant chessboard. Will miracles never cease?

I have, in retrospect, at a point an hour or so after having penned the note above, decided that I was likely in error in deciding that the OP had managed to raise the bar in the ongoing "Finding inane and innocent everyday things that are also none of my business to worry about and complain about and then demand reforms" contest to a new high. Rather, just as some members of this forum were "Rick-rolled" a couple of weeks ago by an April Fool's thread, I have realized that we (that is, any of us who have responded to this thread) have likely been "Sioneva-rolled" by this thread, that is, we have fallen victim to a sinister prank played out by Sioneva using one of her many sock puppet accounts. In other words, I now strongly suspect that the OP account is nothing more than a sock puppet account operated by Sioneva, who used the account to post what is effectively nothing more than a trolling thread, in an attempt to Sioneva-roll us! Tricky! But I ultimately figured it out! Sioneva, you have been busted!

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:unsure: Looks like the OP has just been "Vinny'd" .. or is that Vinnied?

 

Isn't it "Vinn-Rolled"?

 

Edit to say- Just for the record I had not gotten as far as Vinny's last post before I had typed this post. I had no idea he had already played the "Rick-rolled" card.

 

(note to self-never underestimate the Vinny.)

Edited by gof1
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I don't care about the FTF, but my concern is that a person can record a log entry that is earlier than their membership join date. This just seems wrong to me as they were not a registered geocacher and had not agreed with the terms of service at the time they made their find. I feel that log entries should not be permitted for a date earlier than your join date.
When a friend introduced me to geocaching, he brought the cache info that he had downloaded from the geocaching.com site. We found four caches that day, and I was the one who first spotted two of them. I visited geocaching.com a few days later and created an account.

 

Why shouldn't I be able to log my first four finds on the date I found the caches?

 

Parents who cache with kids often use a common family account at first. Then the kids want their own accounts. Why shouldn't they be able to go back and log all the caches they found, using their newly created individual account?

 

Ultimately, geocaching.com does not own or control the caches we find. It's just a listing service. People can still find caches without agreeing to the ToS at geocaching.com and it seems silly to impose restrictions that prohibit online logs that match how people actually found the caches.

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I joined after finding my first few caches, but my dad had one already and "angrykoala" had already told me about Geocaching, so when I found it I thought "I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't known about caching?

And I thought that I would have been in awe and asked my dad to join.

So, I guess that what you do with a cache pre-join is really up to what kind of person you are.

 

signoff_3.png Haku340 signoff_3.png

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Hey, a find is a find. If finding a cache on accident gets someone to log on and join rather than trash the cache, then good. What difference does it make whether the find or the join comes first?

 

I don't think "a find is a find".

 

Intentionally searching for and locating a specific geocache is quite different than accidentally finding that same cache.

 

It may be different, but you still found it. The log type says "found it". You can explain how in the text. I've accidentally found geocaches when I wasn't specifically searching for them and logged a find. Why? Because I found the cache.

 

Most cache owners want to know when their caches are found, regardless of how. The standard letter that many people put in their caches says "If you found this cache by accident, let us know you found it at www.geocaching.com". This site provides the "found it" log for that purpose.

Edited by briansnat
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It recently came to my attention that non-registered Geocachers can record their finds on geocaching.com. I found a new cache that had been left in plain sight, and had many log entries (and trash) from non-cachers who had happened across it. I cleaned it up, moved it a few feet to a hidden location, and logged my find.

 

Weeks later a FTF was logged by a new cacher that predated my find. This person was a non-registered cacher when they made the find, but they later registered with geocaching.com and made the log entry.

 

I don't care about the FTF, but my concern is that a person can record a log entry that is earlier than their membership join date. This just seems wrong to me as they were not a registered geocacher and had not agreed with the terms of service at the time they made their find. I feel that log entries should not be permitted for a date earlier than your join date.

 

Any comments?

 

I'm afraid I'm going to have to add my voice to the choir. I have no idea why this would be a problem.

 

Betcha didn't know: I think it was 2006, about a year before you joined. Prior to that time, You did not need to have a geocaching.com account to see cache coordinates, nor agree to any terms of service. Anyone with an internet connection could go to Geocaching.com, and get the coordinates for, and find your cache. You can still to this day go to Navicache.com and see cache coordinates without even joining the website. Well, probably not too many cache coordinates, but all my caches, at least. :unsure:

 

I never really did figure out why they required you to have an account to see cache coordinates starting in 2006 though.

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I never really did figure out why they required you to have an account to see cache coordinates starting in 2006 though.

Probably to discourage cache raiding. I've read some disturbing and semi-organized attempts in various blogs on the net that encourage people to go out and destroy caches for the sick, twisted fun of it. Requiring them to register records their IP address at least. If push came to shove, someone could view the server logs and identify which registered user viewed which cache just prior to its being destroyed. I'm not sure what could be done about it at that point, but it adds a layer of inconvenience for the would-be raider.
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I don't care about the FTF, but my concern is that a person can record a log entry that is earlier than their membership join date. This just seems wrong to me as they were not a registered geocacher and had not agreed with the terms of service at the time they made their find. I feel that log entries should not be permitted for a date earlier than your join date.

 

Any comments?

How would you deal with people that change accounts? Like those that start out caching as a team or family, then later decide to create their own solo accounts.

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so far my family has just one account, mine. weve made a few finds, and later today we are setting up an account for our middle child who has enjoyed the geocaching. we will fill in the caches hes been along on even tho they were from before his join date. he searched, he found, he signed (not well, but its there), he gets to log it. so far my oldest and significant other arent really into it, but i am keeping track of my own finds and who was with me at the time. someday maybe they'll be into it, and if so, we'll set up an acct, and they can log all the ones they've done with me.

 

i know the guidelines for listing physical caches says "Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed." doesnt say the person has to join the website before they sign the log.

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If you read the note we can print out from this site to leave in the cache, it contains the line "If possible, let us know that you found it, by visiting the website listed below."

 

I have seen a few logs while caching, that had been signed by someone who found it accidentally. I would love to see them log on line.

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Ya know, I've found caches several times while looking for other caches, and one time I was outside talking on my cell phone, was playing around with some wood on the ground, and kicked over a piece of wood that had a cache in it. Cool! I didn't expect it, but I signed the log and then logged the find. I thought it was pretty darn cool...

It was still a find.

 

In regards to non-cachers doing such things:

Honestly, I think it's very cool when non-cachers stumble across a cache, figure out what it is and then start playing the sport because of their accidental find. It's another way for geocaching to grow!

 

-Rozie

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I don't care about the FTF, but my concern is that a person can record a log entry that is earlier than their membership join date. This just seems wrong to me as they were not a registered geocacher and had not agreed with the terms of service at the time they made their find. I feel that log entries should not be permitted for a date earlier than your join date.

 

You mean if someone accidentally finds a cache before they're a member, they shouldn't be allowed to write their name in the log before they go back to their computer and read GSP's terms (which by the way apply to the website, not the cache itself, which if the property of whoever placed it and under THEIR terms), and log a visit with the correct date? I think at the most this should be a policy that cache owners can choose to enforce, or maybe a general recommendation to owners, but the online log system doesn't have any business enforcing it.

 

And consider a situation like this: You want to get one of your friends interested in caching, so you let him illegally look at some cache coordinates on your GPS screen, and the two of you find and sign a cache together. A few days later, he signs up for his own account, and, assuming your suggestion was implemented, can't accurately record his backlogged but still all-important first find!

 

If push came to shove, someone could view the server logs and identify which registered user viewed which cache just prior to its being destroyed.

 

I don't buy it. I've looked at dozens of pages for caches around areas where I live or have visited, and even downloaded waypoints, for caches I haven't had time to search for and therefore haven't posted any logs for. I imagine pretty much everyone does this. That's a lot of vandalism suspects...

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As a new cacher less than 20 finds

I have found 3 caches in plain sight 1 had been muggled

1 was magnetic with a geocaching sticker on the side

If I had no clue and found it, it might have gotten me involved.

I plan on placing a few caches in the near future and will have fliers or business cards

inside with info for future cachers

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:blink: Looks like the OP has just been "Vinny'd" .. or is that Vinnied?

 

I think it should be Vinnified!

 

geo climber

 

Member Since: Monday, June 18, 2007

icon_smile.gifJune 16, 2007 by geo climber

 

Priceless. B)

 

@OP-I've found 5-6 letterboxes while seeking geocaches over the years. Are you saying I didn't find them?

Or simply that I cannot log them as a find at letterboxing.com? :rolleyes:

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A find is a find - who cares if you were looking for it based on info from a cache page? I find it, I sign the logbook, I log online.

 

I've also found a handful of letterboxes while caching. No hints, no clues, just dumb luck to be looking in the wrong/right spot. I sign those too and (if I can figure out where and what) I log those online too.

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