Can I log a cache as found if it is missing?

April 18, 2009

Hi

Been geocaching for a couple of months and love it. Part of the addiction is ever increasing your number of finds lists. Having made the effort to find a cache, it is frustrating if it is not there, (usually due to muggle theft).

There are times when as geocachers, we accept it has all gone a bit wrong and we can't find a cache. When this occurs we post a DNF log. But, there are also occasions when we are 100% sure we are in the right place but the cache has been stolen / removed by a muggle thief (only way to politely describe cache removers).

I have reluctantly filed a DNF log to show it is missing and I miss out on a 'find'.

Is there any 'protocol' to be able to log a missing cache as a 'find' if the cache owner is contacted and confirms you were in the correct place and the cache has been removed?

If there isn't such a protocol, perhaps this could be a good subject for discussion and perhaps an argument for a new log entry of 'Geocache location found but owner accepts missing' award for the intrepid geocache hunter who posts a DNF log with enough detail for the cache owner to make the award as a log.

What do you all think?

Cheers Simon - Stanley Squelchers.

3.8k · April 18, 2009

I think that you Did Not Find the cache. A DNF, it isn't there, you can't find it.

No shame, no loss, you aren't competing. The find number will increase over time and soon it will be nothing more than a count of the number of times you have gotten out and enjoyed yourself. At that point you will look back at some of your logs and decide that they weren't really finds and delete them or change them to notes.

Do yourself a favor and get to that point sooner than later and the DNF's will not cause you even a moment of agony.

2k · April 18, 2009

The way I see it you found it or you didn't. If you found it log a found it. If you did not find it log a did not find.

1.3k · April 18, 2009

Since it's missing, you didn't find it, so you shouldn't log a find. What I do is log a DNF, then log a Needs Maintenance. I had this problem just the other day, found what looked like what used to be a cache and a blue pen right next to it. There are other people who logged DNF on the same cache.

My problem is that the owner has only been a member since last July, has no finds and only one hide and has not logged in in a month

22k · April 18, 2009

No cache, no find.

1.5k · April 18, 2009

If you didn't find it and sign the log, it is a DNF!

And there is no shame in logging a dnf! Some of my most fun logs was telling the hider how he fooled me. It's not a sign of failure .. just that you didn't find it!

The only time I ever logged a find without actually having the cache in my hand was when I found it frozen down in a hole between two trees. I took a picture of it for the owner, and he said to log the find. If he had said not to, because I hadn't signed the log, then that would have been ok with me.

24.7k · April 18, 2009

...I have reluctantly filed a DNF log to show it is missing and I miss out on a 'find'....

True. That would be because either there was nothing to find, or you didn't actually find it.

If the owner confirms you found the nothing there was to find and says "log it" then log it if your conscious allows you to log what you haven't found.

Never assume. Last time I had a bunch of DNF’s pile up, and folks where jumping up and down in annoyance over the missing cache. When I checked on it. Yup. Still there. I left the spare with my caching help in case it ever really does go missing.

April 19, 2009

I have read logs of people logging as found based on finding the canvas that once covered the now missing cache...at least they assumed it was covering a cache. Kind of pathetic to be honest.

5.3k · April 19, 2009

If the cache is missing, it's a DNF.

If you don't actually find the cache and sign the log, it's a DNF.

Even if you are in the "right location", it's a DNF.

It's not a Find until you find the actual cache and sign the log.

3.4k · April 19, 2009

If you're really pretty sure that the cache is missing and don't want to log the dreaded DNF, you could just make your log a "Write a Note"; but if you didn't find the cache (for whatever reason) you shouldn't log a "Found it." IMO

April 19, 2009

I recently had this kind of situation for a cache, apon arriving I found pages from the log book, ziplock bags, pencil, and one trading item, but no cache container, I did not find the geocoin either that was in the cache, I logged it as found and emailed-the owner, but no reply....

5.3k · April 19, 2009

Sorry, but that's not a find. The cache container wasn't there (or you didn't find it if it was). Only some remnants were.

1.6k · April 19, 2009

I had a situation where I was fairly certain that I had the Find. A PVC pipe next to a utility pole with plastic caps top and bottom. However, I couldn't get the cap off. I loged a fiond and sent the CO a prvate note stating what I had found and where, along with an explanation that I couldbn't open it to sign without damaging it and a request to delete my log and advise me if I hadn't found it. That's the only time I logged a find without signing the log.

6.5k · April 19, 2009

There is a 'found it' log, and a 'did not find it' log. There is currently not a 'looked for but didn't find' log.

2k · April 20, 2009

I had a situation where I was fairly certain that I had the Find. A PVC pipe next to a utility pole with plastic caps top and bottom. However, I couldn't get the cap off. I loged a fiond and sent the CO a prvate note stating what I had found and where, along with an explanation that I couldbn't open it to sign without damaging it and a request to delete my log and advise me if I hadn't found it. That's the only time I logged a find without signing the log.

If you can't open it and sign a log, you can't know it is the cache.

Sounds like a DNF to me.

I logged a DNF on a 35mm film canister frozen in ice hidden behind a statue. Sure, it was probably the cache. But I couldn't know for sure. Returned 3 months later in the spring and logged the find.

2.4k · April 20, 2009

No shame in a DNF in my book - there are some caches we have attempted that ONLY have DNFs from day one. If nothing else it alerts your caching buddies that there may be a problem with this cache, and they won't waste their time with it.

I would contact the the cache owner and ask (nicely) if they could check on it's presence/absence. No reply means no cache in my book I'm afraid.

Good Luck and for every DNF, I bet you get at least 10 finds!

April 21, 2009

I recently found a loc-n-lock container and could only get it out of it's spot partway. I couldn't get the lid off, so I signed the outside and e-mailed the owner. They accepted my find. It appears that dirt had washed into the space it was in and made removal impossible until the owner corrected it.

3.3k · April 21, 2009

Just chiming in to add that I believe if the cache is not there you can't find it. There is no shame in a DNF.

1.3k · April 21, 2009

I recently had this kind of situation for a cache, apon arriving I found pages from the log book, ziplock bags, pencil, and one trading item, but no cache container, I did not find the geocoin either that was in the cache, I logged it as found and emailed-the owner, but no reply....

I had a very similar situation when I first started caching. I found a pile of toys, paper and other trinkets on the ground at GZ. I bagged it up, hid it near a big tree that was near where the cache was supposed to be and logged a Needs Maintainance, indicating in the log where the bag of swag could be found for the owner. The owner disabled the cache, fixed it up, enabled the cache and when he did, I went back, found the container, signed the log and then logged the find.

Hi

Been geocaching for a couple of months and love it. Part of the addiction is ever increasing your number of finds lists. Having made the effort to find a cache, it is frustrating if it is not there, (usually due to muggle theft).

There are times when as geocachers, we accept it has all gone a bit wrong and we can't find a cache. When this occurs we post a DNF log. But, there are also occasions when we are 100% sure we are in the right place but the cache has been stolen / removed by a muggle thief (only way to politely describe cache removers).

I have reluctantly filed a DNF log to show it is missing and I miss out on a 'find'.

Is there any 'protocol' to be able to log a missing cache as a 'find' if the cache owner is contacted and confirms you were in the correct place and the cache has been removed?

If there isn't such a protocol, perhaps this could be a good subject for discussion and perhaps an argument for a new log entry of 'Geocache location found but owner accepts missing' award for the intrepid geocache hunter who posts a DNF log with enough detail for the cache owner to make the award as a log.

What do you all think?

Cheers Simon - Stanley Squelchers.

I've been out caching, put in an honest effort, searched everywhere I could think to search and still came up empty. Either I was stumped by the hider or it was muggled. But not once have I felt that I should log it as a find just because I tried really hard to find it and even though I didn't, I shouldn't be denied a find just because the darn thing wasn't there. Stop worrying about your find count and start enjoying geocaching.

You can split hairs all you want but it's simple. You didn't find the cache and/or sign the log. It cannot be a find.

Bruce

Edited April 21, 2009 by Bassanio

April 21, 2009

DNF and Needs Maintenance are the proper methods for communicating to the owner and other cachers that the cahce is "hard to find" or may be missing.

Ultimately, you CAN'T know if the cache was missing, or just well hidden. That's the owners job. If you didn't find the cache, log a DNF. If somebody else finds it, you know that YOU missed it. If a bunch of DNFs pile up, the owner knows to check on it.

Needs Maintenance is for caches that get found, and need maintenance.

It's all pretty simple.

April 21, 2009

No cache, No find. If its a physical cache, you generally need to sign the log to claim a find. If you cant find it, you post a DNF. It helps the cache owner by calling thier attention if there gets to be to many finds. Soemtimes......you just didnt find the cache, though.

April 21, 2009

Is there any 'protocol' to be able to log a missing cache as a 'find' if the cache owner is contacted and confirms you were in the correct place and the cache has been removed?

The bottom line is if you didn't sign the log, for whatever reason - it's a DNF!

18.9k · April 21, 2009

Early on, I shared your thoughts - generally. But after meeting other cachers and reading these forums even way back in late 2002 - I quickly changed my mind. No container, no find = log a DNF log.

This isn't about just getting to a spot - It is about getting to a spot and finding something there. Retrieve it - sign the log and put it back.

Sorry if it is gone.

Edited April 21, 2009 by StarBrand

April 22, 2009

If you don't find it, it's a DNF. It may or may not be missing. I've had a cache reported missing and with the info given to me I was sure they were right. I went to replace it and found that it was still there and in good shape. I still don't know what they saw because it sounded correct but it was not.

April 22, 2009

Some of the funniest (and saddest) logs are the "Found it but did not find it type". Read some cache pages and get a good laugh.

Stuff like: "Got to the park but the gate was locked - logging it found" "looked for 15 minutes, must be muggled, logging a find".

If you need to get the owners permission to figure out if you found it - its not found. If you find a toy under the shopping carts, but no cache, its not a find.

"Found it but didn't really find it" just hides the fact the cache might actually be missing, and they cheat the cacher out of a correct count.

2k · April 22, 2009

There is, of course, an entire thread dedicated to eye-rolling when someone claims a find while admitting they didn't find a cache.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=66648

2.2k · April 22, 2009

Some of the funniest (and saddest) logs are the "Found it but did not find it type". Read some cache pages and get a good laugh.

Stuff like: "Got to the park but the gate was locked - logging it found" "looked for 15 minutes, must be muggled, logging a find".

If you need to get the owners permission to figure out if you found it - its not found. If you find a toy under the shopping carts, but no cache, its not a find.

"Found it but didn't really find it" just hides the fact the cache might actually be missing, and they cheat the cacher out of a correct count.

my all time favorite is the out of state cacher with several thousand finds who wrote, "If it had been there I would have found it so I'm claiming the find." Within a week a half dozen others found the cache which was in a spot about 30 feeet from GZ.

3.2k · April 24, 2009

Sorry, but that's not a find. The cache container wasn't there (or you didn't find it if it was). Only some remnants were.

Yes a bit grey.. but if the log was there and he signed it I'd never delete the find log if it was one of my caches. Twice I've found caches with missing boxes but with everything else neatly packed into a zip lock bag. Someone was stealing ammo cans, but not taking anything else. I claimed them as finds. I've also found a cache where the contents including the log book but minus the box were scattered over a few square meters of woods. I packed everything out and mailed it to the owner. Claimed that find also. On the other hand I've also found a few stray pieces of SWAG that the muggler dropped or left behind.. those I listed as DNF and needs maintenance.

Edited April 24, 2009 by edscott

April 24, 2009

If you did not hide the Cache, how do you know it is not there?

Unless you are the "Best Cache Finder in The World" and have the best GPSr, you are going to have DNF'S. No shame! It's just part of the Game.

Any honest GeoCacher will admit to DNF's

1.5k · April 24, 2009

Wow 1 post from the OP and nearly 30 responses (all saying approximately the same thing), and +600 views! Stanley obviously hit a popular nerve

April 25, 2009

Hi

Been geocaching for a couple of months and love it. Part of the addiction is ever increasing your number of finds lists. Having made the effort to find a cache, it is frustrating if it is not there, (usually due to muggle theft).

There are times when as geocachers, we accept it has all gone a bit wrong and we can't find a cache. When this occurs we post a DNF log. But, there are also occasions when we are 100% sure we are in the right place but the cache has been stolen / removed by a muggle thief (only way to politely describe cache removers).

I have reluctantly filed a DNF log to show it is missing and I miss out on a 'find'.

Is there any 'protocol' to be able to log a missing cache as a 'find' if the cache owner is contacted and confirms you were in the correct place and the cache has been removed?

If there isn't such a protocol, perhaps this could be a good subject for discussion and perhaps an argument for a new log entry of 'Geocache location found but owner accepts missing' award for the intrepid geocache hunter who posts a DNF log with enough detail for the cache owner to make the award as a log.

What do you all think?

Cheers Simon - Stanley Squelchers.

Post the DNF then because you know you were in the right spot and the owners says you were you can ask him to put your name on the log, if he or she is willing to do so than log it as a find if not you need to go back to the location after it is replaced and refind and sign the log book, nothing perturbs me more than "phantom loggers"-logging online as a find but no proof in the log book. I will delete their found logs on my caches if I find someone has done that unless they state in the online log that they did it and why.

April 25, 2009

One time while caching i came across the cache but it was open and all the contents where scattered everywhere (animal got into it was my guess). The cache was shredded and there was no log in site either. The cache was (muggled/destroyed) but i collected the pieces and then emailed the owner who allowed me to file a find cause i technically "found the cache". But other than those circumstances i am fine with logging a DNF. No log no credit. Signing a DNF just gives me another excuse to go out and attempt this cache again!

April 25, 2009

Signing a DNF just gives me another excuse to go out and attempt this cache again!

Yup! You can always add a found/smiley later, you can try more that once :unsure: .

April 26, 2009

One time while caching i came across the cache but it was open and all the contents where scattered everywhere (animal got into it was my guess). The cache was shredded and there was no log in site either. The cache was (muggled/destroyed) but i collected the pieces and then emailed the owner who allowed me to file a find cause i technically "found the cache". But other than those circumstances i am fine with logging a DNF. No log no credit. Signing a DNF just gives me another excuse to go out and attempt this cache again!

Exactly, what a great perspective lol!

April 26, 2009

I had posted a question a couple of weeks ago about this same topic. I'm a n00b with only a few finds, and while I was fairly sure that the cache had been muggled (because it had been muggled before and there were remnants of stuff around, not to mention that it just *should* have been where I was looking) I went ahead and logged the DNF. Someone came after me and said they signed "remnants of the cache" and logged a find. A few days later, the cache owner confirmed that it had indeed been muggled again, and he had rehidden it in a slightly different location, so now I get to go try again!

Bonus, my kids loved that spot, and I don't look like an idiot for "logging" something that wasn't there.

April 26, 2009

I have a few dnf . One i visited 5 times. What i do is approach from a different direction. Have found gps to be off as far as 400 ft. One was saying ground zero was 20 ft away. it was a home and i was on the wrong slope and 600 ft from cache. Imagine pokeing around the house and having someone calling the cops. Always try a few different directions and don't approach any houses. tboyla

Can I log a cache as found if it is missing?

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