Bad, or "Drifting" Coordinates

[knowschad]

This is the cache owner's note on a local cache. Many of the finder's logs were stating that the coordinates were off. So the CO did update the coordinates, yet the logs continued to state that the coords were considerably wrong. I know of one cacher who's log got deleted when he posted alternate coordinates!

 

The cache is in a perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees... no big deal.

 

The owner's note:

 

Cache is still in place and in good shape. Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches, thus the fun and point of it all right. After all who wants to walk right up to one and find it. I only hide caches where the GPSR drifts because of the surrounding environment, It makes it more interesting and challenging for all.

However; For those of you just looking to pad your numbers you might want to skip this one, it takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find. Cache is definitely winter friendly. Thanks to all the previous finders for placing cache exactly back where it was. Remember caching is supposed to be fun and is just a way to get you outside exercising.

 

I'm just interested in hearing what others have to say about the note. I found the cache quite some time ago, so this is not a complaint. Just a subject for conversation.

[+rob3k]

Sounds like he makes his hides challenging, not by creating clever or unusual hides, but by posting poor coordinates. I don't really care for that method.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

This is the cache owner's note on a local cache. Many of the finder's logs were stating that the coordinates were off. So the CO did update the coordinates, yet the logs continued to state that the coords were considerably wrong. I know of one cacher who's log got deleted when he posted alternate coordinates!

 

The cache is in a perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees... no big deal.

 

The owner's note:

 

Cache is still in place and in good shape. Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches, thus the fun and point of it all right. After all who wants to walk right up to one and find it. I only hide caches where the GPSR drifts because of the surrounding environment, It makes it more interesting and challenging for all.

However; For those of you just looking to pad your numbers you might want to skip this one, it takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find. Cache is definitely winter friendly. Thanks to all the previous finders for placing cache exactly back where it was. Remember caching is supposed to be fun and is just a way to get you outside exercising.

 

I'm just interested in hearing what others have to say about the note. I found the cache quite some time ago, so this is not a complaint. Just a subject for conversation.

 

I disagree with the statement that "It makes it more interesting and challenging for all" when a cache is placed where satellite signals are weak or misleading.

 

Just my opinion, but....It's easy to make a difficult hide by using "soft" coordinates, or when the cache is place in a location where a GPS is less effective for determining ground zero. It's more of a challenge to the hider to create a difficult hide when the coordinates are right on, and more interesting for the finder to figure out where the cache is located.

[+buttaskotch]

This is the cache owner's note on a local cache. Many of the finder's logs were stating that the coordinates were off. So the CO did update the coordinates, yet the logs continued to state that the coords were considerably wrong. I know of one cacher who's log got deleted when he posted alternate coordinates!

 

The cache is in a perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees... no big deal.

 

The owner's note:

 

Cache is still in place and in good shape. Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches, thus the fun and point of it all right. After all who wants to walk right up to one and find it. I only hide caches where the GPSR drifts because of the surrounding environment, It makes it more interesting and challenging for all.

However; For those of you just looking to pad your numbers you might want to skip this one, it takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find. Cache is definitely winter friendly. Thanks to all the previous finders for placing cache exactly back where it was. Remember caching is supposed to be fun and is just a way to get you outside exercising.

 

I'm just interested in hearing what others have to say about the note. I found the cache quite some time ago, so this is not a complaint. Just a subject for conversation.

Did the CO put a high difficulty rating up?

If not then its completely misleading and I owuld have issue with it

[Dinoprophet]

The "fun and point of it" is that you can get to the exact point someone else gave you. If it wasn't meant to be as exact as possible, it would be letterboxing. If you want to post "soft" coordinates, make it an offset cache.

[+wimseyguy]

What are drifting coordinates? Sand and snow can drift, coordinates are either accurate or not. This is lamer than a parking log full of LPC's every 529' apart. This guy's hides would be on my ignore list if it was local.

[+StarBrand]

Given that the average accuracy of our handheld units is around 20 feet - I see no need to up the challenge by posting "drifted" coordinates. Lame. Disguise it well, hide it well but post the best coordinates you can.

[knowschad]

Did the CO put a high difficulty rating up?

If not then its completely misleading and I would have issue with it

 

1.5 difficulty/1 terrain

[+Kealia]

I echo everything that has been said so far.

Thanks for saving me some typing.

[+Leaky Spoon]

We have a local CO here that does that very thing, but doesn't tell anyone. After the first couple of his that were unable to be found and his complete lack of changing coordinates as requested by other cachers, we just completely ignore every one of his caches.

 

Does it bother him? He probably doesn't know or care but we're sure saved some heartache!!

[+J-Way]

Coordinates can appear to "drift" in areas with poor satellite reception, such as around heavy trees, tall buildings, or tall cliffs. But since those conditions don't appear to apply in the OP's case, my guess is the owner has a cheap receiver and is too lazy and/or just doesn't care enough to try and get good coordinates.

[+Walkworthy & Wife]

This type of person must reside everywhere. I have one in my area too. At first I was using an older model GPSr that I blamed for getting signal bounce around walls, trees and power lines. But now I have an "H" series that does a lot better. But when I look for this CO's caches, I have never found a cache dead on the coordinates. Now, I know that the best my GPSr's accuracy is around 11 feet. But, I have only had one person question my coordinates. Get this, the coordinates of my hide was N 41° 10.231 W 080° 21.812. The FTF wrote in his log, "i took an average of the cords and got N41 10.230 W80 21.813." As a matter of fact one log said, "coordinates were dead on." So I figure the problem isn't my GPSr when looking for his hides. I am to the point of ignoring his hides, but my wife loves the challenge. Now don't get me wrong. I don't expect the caches to pop into my hand whenever I get close, but I agree with the other posters, increase the difficulty by making a unique or difficult hide.

[knowschad]

This is not an area of poor reception in the least. I know... I have many of my own caches in the same area, and I frequently get "coords were spot-on" type messages in my found-it logs. What I really "enjoy", though, is this part of it:

 

Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches

 

How then can the CO be sure that his coordinates are "dead-on"?

[+Gimpy13]

This is the cache owner's note on a local cache. Many of the finder's logs were stating that the coordinates were off. So the CO did update the coordinates, yet the logs continued to state that the coords were considerably wrong. I know of one cacher who's log got deleted when he posted alternate coordinates!

 

The cache is in a perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees... no big deal.

 

The owner's note:

 

Cache is still in place and in good shape. Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches, thus the fun and point of it all right. After all who wants to walk right up to one and find it. I only hide caches where the GPSR drifts because of the surrounding environment, It makes it more interesting and challenging for all.

However; For those of you just looking to pad your numbers you might want to skip this one, it takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find. Cache is definitely winter friendly. Thanks to all the previous finders for placing cache exactly back where it was. Remember caching is supposed to be fun and is just a way to get you outside exercising.

 

I'm just interested in hearing what others have to say about the note. I found the cache quite some time ago, so this is not a complaint. Just a subject for conversation.

 

My emphasis above.. I'd ignore this person's hides because

 

1) I want accurate coordinates. I give "dead on" and that's what I want from other COs.

 

2) This person is not clear on the concept. Caching is not "just a way to get you outside exercising." Caching is the hunt and the kill. It's the triumph. It's the scratches all over your arms from that darned cedar tree that you had to crawl through to get all the way to the trunk where that GALLON JUG was hidden (really fun cache btw). Caching is the trinket treasure, and the smiley covered Google maps. Exercise? Not even on my list. It's a by-product.

 

3) How incredibly offensive to suggest that I "might want to skip this one" because it "takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find." HOW RUDE!! Click that ignore button and get on with the quest.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yes. Reception can vary, depending on which satellites are in position. Yes. Reception can be terrible! I was in New York City Sunday. Between tall buildings and scaffolding, it was fun to watch where Gupy thought we were! As far as two blocks off!

But there is no excuse for giving bad coords. "I wanted to make this harder, so the coords are in the middle of the parking lot." (And a Pringle's can set in the weep hole in a wall, to boot!) (Had one log deleted for mentioning that the coords were 170' off.)

This game is based on accurate coords. There is no excuse for bad coords. Sounds like CO got his coords from a satellite map, instead of a GPS.

[+redjada]

This is the cache owner's note on a local cache. Many of the finder's logs were stating that the coordinates were off. So the CO did update the coordinates, yet the logs continued to state that the coords were considerably wrong. I know of one cacher who's log got deleted when he posted alternate coordinates!

 

The cache is in a perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees... no big deal.

 

The owner's note:

 

Cache is still in place and in good shape. Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches, thus the fun and point of it all right. After all who wants to walk right up to one and find it. I only hide caches where the GPSR drifts because of the surrounding environment, It makes it more interesting and challenging for all.

However; For those of you just looking to pad your numbers you might want to skip this one, it takes a little bit of thinking and a little time to find. Cache is definitely winter friendly. Thanks to all the previous finders for placing cache exactly back where it was. Remember caching is supposed to be fun and is just a way to get you outside exercising.

 

I'm just interested in hearing what others have to say about the note. I found the cache quite some time ago, so this is not a complaint. Just a subject for conversation.

 

What is "considerably wrong" 50', 100', 200'? If its in an open area, then 50' may be pushing it. But what's the fun of walking right up on a cache? That's like going to your local store to get batteries for your GPS'r. You know right where there at. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be caching.

[CoyoteRed]

What is "considerably wrong" 50', 100', 200'? If its in an open area, then 50' may be pushing it. But what's the fun of walking right up on a cache? That's like going to your local store to get batteries for your GPS'r. You know right where there at. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be caching.

Feel free to put away your receiver when you get below 100' if you feel that way.

 

Your coordinates should always be as accurate as you can reasonably make them.

[knowschad]

[ But what's the fun of walking right up on a cache? That's like going to your local store to get batteries for your GPS'r. You know right where there at. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be caching.

 

I totally agree with what you said, but the way to do it is NOT to post coordinates that are less accurate than you can take. If you want to make it challenging, then make the hide more clever than a peanut butter jar wrapped in duct tape, and tossed into a shrub in a city park. Bad coordinates do not make a hide that is a fun challenge. It makes for a chache that is a frustrating challenge.

 

Another way to look at it... its like creating a puzzle cache where one essential part of the solution is deliberately left out or changed. The puzzle should be a challenge, but it should be a fair challenge.

[+roziecakes]

Sounds like he makes his hides challenging, not by creating clever or unusual hides, but by posting poor coordinates. I don't really care for that method.

 

That was just what I was going to say...

 

-Rozie

[+J-Way]

This is not an area of poor reception in the least. I know... I have many of my own caches in the same area, and I frequently get "coords were spot-on" type messages in my found-it logs. What I really "enjoy", though, is this part of it:

Coordinates are dead on but do drift in areas I hide my caches

How then can the CO be sure that his coordinates are "dead-on"?

Probably because the owner hit "Mark Location" and used the actual coordinates on his receiver. Because they weren't intentionally altered, they're obviously "dead on". Some people don't know to (at a minimum) let your receiver sit and "settle" (average) for a while before marking the point. Many more don't know how to average different points taken over different days.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Sounds like he makes his hides challenging, not by creating clever or unusual hides, but by posting poor coordinates. I don't really care for that method.

 

That was just what I was going to say...

 

-Rozie

Ditto. Bad coords aren't clever or entertaining.

 

Anyone who stated that he intentionally posted bad coords would go straight to my ignore list.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

What are drifting coordinates? Sand and snow can drift, coordinates are either accurate or not. This is lamer than a parking log full of LPC's every 529' apart. This guy's hides would be on my ignore list if it was local.

 

I was the FTF on a cache that was placed under a large metal bridge. When I arrived at the location my GPS was telling me that the coordinates were about 120' from the bridge near a telephone pole and since the hint indicated that it was stuck to something metal I searched for awhile on the metal "guy wires" supporting the telephone pole. Then I went toward the bridge and when I was right next to it my GPS was, again, telling me that I was at ground zero but this time I found the cache. I suspect that the bridge was causing some sort of signal bounce and that the hider probably didn't even realize that "good coordinates" were showing up 120' away from the hide location.

[Clan Riffster]

Anyone who stated that he intentionally posted bad coords would go straight to my ignore list.

Can I get an "Amen", Ed?

I reckon I've been lucky, as I haven't come across anyone claiming intentionaly bad coords.

If I ever do, after a thorough thrashing with a rotting lemming carcass, I'll tell them they are lamer than an LPC.

[+gof1]

Anyone who stated that he intentionally posted bad coords would go straight to my ignore list.

Can I get an "Amen", Ed?

I reckon I've been lucky, as I haven't come across anyone claiming intentionaly bad coords.

If I ever do, after a thorough thrashing with a rotting lemming carcass, I'll tell them they are lamer than an LPC.

 

Please video tape that.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Anyone who stated that he intentionally posted bad coords would go straight to my ignore list.

Can I get an "Amen", Ed?

Amen!

[ocanman]

Posting poor coordinates on purpose are not cool. Considering that no 2 GPS units have the same accuracy, the weather, and the time of day all affect finding caches, there is no need to post poor coordinates. I have found caches hidden by the same person, whose coords ranged from bang on to 35 feet off.

 

I will give hints when my coords are not perfect, just to help.

[knowschad]

What is "considerably wrong" 50', 100', 200'? If its in an open area, then 50' may be pushing it. But what's the fun of walking right up on a cache? That's like going to your local store to get batteries for your GPS'r. You know right where there at. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be caching.

 

That, my friend, all depends on how well the cache is hidden. But even with simple hides, you do not post deliberately bad coordinates just to make it more of a challenge. That just is not the way the game works.

[Andronicus]

What is all this talk about "GPS drift where I hid caches". If it is an "perfectly flat city park with a few scattered trees", there is no geographic reason why there should be drift. Are there holes in the GPS constilation that produce areas with continuousely poor reception? I certanly have never heard of this.

 

I think this guy is giving intentional bad GPS coordinants to artificialy up the difficulty. Someone should do a projection triangulation to determin if his coordinance are acctualy spot on, or if he is full of sh*t.

[+power69]

Sounds like he makes his hides challenging, not by creating clever or unusual hides, but by posting poor coordinates. I don't really care for that method.

bad coords don't make a 1/1 P&G into a 3/3

people don't enjoy looking for something thats got off coords.

any owner that deletes logs that have BETTER coords, i'd just put all his/her hides on ignore.