Jump to content

Friends helping friends with an FTF


Recommended Posts

okay, i'm sure this has been debated before, but the forum search has failed me tonight. so i vent now. at 10:19 pm mst a notification of a cache was emailed to me. i recognized the area as being less than a mile from my home. i hopped in the car and at 10:23 was on site. 3 or 4 minutes later i found the cache. . . . only to find that someone else had logged an ftf. . . . normally, this would be semi-okay with me and i'd sign and be on my way. only this time, the person dated the log for the day before the cache was published. his "found log" was published on the cache page before i got back in my car (checked on my iphone). so, riddle me this: i arrive less than 5 minutes after the cache was published, and someone else already has shown up, looked for the cache, located it, signed the log, put it back, and drove away? pardon me, but if it looks like a fish. . . . smells like a fish. . . . something might be fishy.

 

now i know that it's not all about the ftf. it's not all about the numbers. but i've been caching for a little more than a year. have 221 caches to my name now. i know the joy of an ftf and what it means ( i have 6 myself). it just seems way too coincidental to me. is this a common practice among cachers? i'm not usually the one to jump and run at the thought of an ftf, but it is a nice bonus every once in a while.

 

celebrations of large numbers and dedicated caches aside, this just seems all sorts of wrong to me to be cheating in a game where the only winner is your personal pride.

 

vent complete. not letting this one bug me anymore. :D:D:D

 

edit to add cache: GC1Q03X

Edited by TheMacMan
Link to comment

okay, i'm sure this has been debated before, but the forum search has failed me tonight. so i vent now. at 10:19 pm mst a notification of a cache was emailed to me. i recognized the area as being less than a mile from my home. i hopped in the car and at 10:23 was on site. 3 or 4 minutes later i found the cache. . . . only to find that someone else had logged an ftf. . . . normally, this would be semi-okay with me and i'd sign and be on my way. only this time, the person dated the log for the day before the cache was published. his "found log" was published on the cache page before i got back in my car (checked on my iphone). so, riddle me this: i arrive less than 5 minutes after the cache was published, and someone else already has shown up, looked for the cache, located it, signed the log, put it back, and drove away? pardon me, but if it looks like a fish. . . . smells like a fish. . . . something might be fishy.

 

now i know that it's not all about the ftf. it's not all about the numbers. but i've been caching for a little more than a year. have 221 caches to my name now. i know the joy of an ftf and what it means ( i have 6 myself). it just seems way too coincidental to me. is this a common practice among cachers? i'm not usually the one to jump and run at the thought of an ftf, but it is a nice bonus every once in a while.

 

celebrations of large numbers and dedicated caches aside, this just seems all sorts of wrong to me to be cheating in a game where the only winner is your personal pride.

 

vent complete. not letting this one bug me anymore. :D:D:D

 

We just found a cache that had been pre-signed by two other cachers one week before the publish date. I made it quite clear in our log that we should score the FTF. They didn't care about the FTF - they had just decided to log it because they were with the owner when he hid it.

That said, you've shown a pretty good attitiude in venting and then moving on. FTF is purely a cacher driven thing - TPTB have no policy on it, so claim it for yourself and go get the next one!

Link to comment

If you hide an ammo can in the woods, or a film can in Burger King shrubbery, it belongs to you.

Since it's yours, you are free to do with it what you wish. Groundspeak is just a listing service.

There are no rules, guidelines or even suggestions against you supplying the coords to your adoring public in whatever manner suits you. :D

 

If you want to send the coords out as smoke signals... Kewl! :D

If you want to send the coords out in E-mails... Kewl! :D

If you want to write them on paper and fold them into Origami swans, passing them out on subway trains... Kewl! :D (Ninjas hate Origami!)

If you want to create a website to list them... Kewl! :D

If you want to publish them here... Still Kewl! :D

 

You went out in search of a cache. You found a cache. I'm having a tough time figuring out where the problem is. :D

Link to comment

I think we need a new term to help designate what you are. You are clearly the FTFAP (First to Find After Publication).

 

I have seen a bit of tension concerning this topic and I have had First to finders contact me about there being signatures in the logs prior to one of my caches being published. I tell them that they are welcome to claim FTF since they are FTF after the cache was published. I feel the "FTF Race" does not start until the cache is published, therefore, someone visiting the cache prior to the cache being published should not cheapen the hunt for the people that like to get FTF's.

Many times I hide caches for outings or events. The caches are found by the people on the outing then the caches are published. Technically the people that had the coordinates first are the FTFs, however, they are not part of the FTF game because that only kicks in once the cache is published. Therefore, the first person to get to the cache after publication can still use the FTFAP designation.

Link to comment

I've been planning a multi at my alma matter. The cache was placed Friday. I had been discussing it with my friend, whom started caching after I told him about it. He wants an FTF, but all I told him was the general area on campus. He hasn't found it, and must be waiting for publishing. I think this is fair.

 

I have no FTF's and must agree with the majority. It's their cache, and if they give their friends coords and ask them to find it before publishing, that's their deal. In truth FTF is all in your head because Groundspeak does not recognize it. Maybe in the future they will, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

(Side Note: I can't worry about FTF's because I'm really the only new hider in a 30 mile radius so maybe my opinion is null :D ).

Link to comment

Our friends should be companions who inspire us, who help us rise to our best.

________________________________________

Get your [users commercial link was here] now.

 

Interesting user here. I found it strange that their posts are so lacking in any substance. They are basically meaningless drivel. Then it dawned on me, it's an add!

Link to comment

Dude... where's my car?

 

Yeah, there are a few caches out there named "Dude, where's my car". :D

 

Oh yeah, this stuff happens everywhere. It's happened to me at least twice, both back in like 2004 when I mildly cared if I was FTF. And these situations were about 300 miles apart. Now I couldn't care less about FTF, so I guess people can do whatever they want. I also can't argue with "FTF is FTF".

 

Gotta love the Yahoooooooooo!!! FTF!!! log though, like it was legitimate or something. (as it was also proclaimed in the two cases I described).

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
Link to comment

No problem at all with any cacher distributing coordinates to his cache in any manner that makes him happy.

You can claim FTF all you want, however, the first person to find it is the FTF regardless of how or when they got the coordinates.

 

You take the luck of the draw when you try to play the FTF game.

Link to comment

I think we need a new term to help designate what you are. You are clearly the FTFAP (First to Find After Publication).

 

I have seen a bit of tension concerning this topic and I have had First to finders contact me about there being signatures in the logs prior to one of my caches being published. I tell them that they are welcome to claim FTF since they are FTF after the cache was published. I feel the "FTF Race" does not start until the cache is published, therefore, someone visiting the cache prior to the cache being published should not cheapen the hunt for the people that like to get FTF's.

Many times I hide caches for outings or events. The caches are found by the people on the outing then the caches are published. Technically the people that had the coordinates first are the FTFs, however, they are not part of the FTF game because that only kicks in once the cache is published. Therefore, the first person to get to the cache after publication can still use the FTFAP designation.

 

Now this is what I'm talkin about. One of my hides I actually wanted my friend to find first. But I thought it fair that he wait until it was published. Luckily, he was at work when it went out and he could actually get it. My own brother-in-law tells me when he puts caches out. I could probably convince him to tell me where they are, but again, I know that a true ftf matters so some people. So I dunno. I'm glad there's contrasting ideas on this though. Perhaps one day it will actually matter to TPTB. Oh well, it's not going to keep me from caching. This is the greatest hobby I've ever had. Thanks for your replies.

 

Happy caching all!

Link to comment

i do not even try for a FTF anymore. I still want my first one...but here in West Michigan, there are half a dozen men that either do not work...or are working in their cars (patrol cars?) and get every single FTF. They all have over 150 each. there was one recently that had one guy pulling into a new published cache, in his rearview was another guy, and while they were finding it...another FTF obsessed man drives up. It always seems to be a flashmob of the same guys. Not much fun for the average famil man who caches with his kids who would like to get their son/daghter a FTF...sometime...somehow...

 

I used to try...now I do not care. I do not even put FTF swag in my caches anymore as the same guys are getting them. <rant complete>

Link to comment

FTF is a race for those guys. If you want to beat them you have to think like them. They are willing to drop what they are doing at a seconds notice. Don't stop to tie shoes, wipe noses or even flush, although I hope they wash. :P You have to be willing to spend. Those guys are probably hooked up to the internet 24/7. Blackberries, wifi laptops, the works. I know a guy who has a computer in his trunk with a screen and keyboard that folds down out of his dash. It's serious business for these guys. If you wanna play you gotta pay. For most of us that means either we don't play or gotta pay with patience and perseverance. Adding in small children just makes it more difficult.

 

I used to go for FTFs. I was ready to fly out the door as soon as I got the email alert. Not so easy with all the ways to get notified in the field now. I had a lot of success going after the second cache published in an evening. That is to say when a cache was published I'd wait to see if the reviewer was doing a couple at a sitting. While the other FTF hounds were all out chasing the first one I'd be there at my computer ten or fifteen minutes later when another was published. They'd fight to get the find on the first cache and I'd get the second one uncontested. Now days I only even try on a rare occasion.

 

Last, the FTF prize. Not a fan of these. I got one a while back. It was a gift card, like 10 or 15 bucks. Got me to thinking. The same guys get FTF every time. If I want to give them money I'll mail it to them. So I stopped taking FTF prizes.

Link to comment

If you hide an ammo can in the woods, or a film can in Burger King shrubbery, it belongs to you.

Since it's yours, you are free to do with it what you wish. Groundspeak is just a listing service.

There are no rules, guidelines or even suggestions against you supplying the coords to your adoring public in whatever manner suits you. :D

 

If you want to send the coords out as smoke signals... Kewl! :D

If you want to send the coords out in E-mails... Kewl! :D

If you want to write them on paper and fold them into Origami swans, passing them out on subway trains... Kewl! :D (Ninjas hate Origami!)

If you want to create a website to list them... Kewl! :D

If you want to publish them here... Still Kewl! :D

 

You went out in search of a cache. You found a cache. I'm having a tough time figuring out where the problem is. :D

 

I agree with the authority figure 100%.

Then again I never did care about getting FTF's. :P

Link to comment

I noticed this recently on a local find: the FTF being before it was published, and on top of that it was found by the person reviewing that cache.

If there is such a thing as fair in this world (which is highly debatable) this is not.

If someone wants to claim first to find, then I think they have to be in competition with others. To find out the coordinates ahead of publishing in any way is removing yourself from the competition. Like a runner starting the race a day ahead of time. How can that runner finish first when there is no one running with him? how can you claim first when no one else is in the running at that point? No one else CAN find it.

It seems to me to sour the sport of the game to do things like this.

So I can just go out and hide caches and give the coordinates to my friends so they can all log first to finds? The more I hide the more FTF's my friends get? No, I don't think that's sporting. Call me a sour-puss (and now I'm sure some of you will) but it just rubs me the wrong way in a game when we're all in this together (hiding and hunting caches).

It changes the mentality of the game. Before we are all in this together. Now, it depends on who you know.

Well in a game with few rules (and I do like it that way) you are able to do whatever you like, sporting or not. Hell, why not just log them and not bother to find them? You can do that too. See who actually checks the logs. Why bother to go out at all? Play however you want. It's your karma, and your fun. The caveat being that it doesn't ruin other's fun.

My geo-partner hid a new one the other day. I didn't know where it was, but waited for it to be published. I'd rather have a first to find that counts for me. I'd rather have no first to finds. (I was about 8th I think, and that's OK).

OK, so there's my rant. Nuff said. :P

Link to comment
... i've been caching for a little more than a year. have 221 caches to my name now. i know the joy of an ftf and what it means
I've been here a little while and have a couple of finds, on a few of them I was even the very first person to find the cache. Beyond the fact that the FTF is the first person to find the cache, what does it mean?
Link to comment

If you hide an ammo can in the woods, or a film can in Burger King shrubbery, it belongs to you.

Since it's yours, you are free to do with it what you wish. Groundspeak is just a listing service.

There are no rules, guidelines or even suggestions against you supplying the coords to your adoring public in whatever manner suits you. :D

 

If you want to send the coords out as smoke signals... Kewl! :D

If you want to send the coords out in E-mails... Kewl! :D

If you want to write them on paper and fold them into Origami swans, passing them out on subway trains... Kewl! :D (Ninjas hate Origami!)

If you want to create a website to list them... Kewl! :D

If you want to publish them here... Still Kewl! :D

 

You went out in search of a cache. You found a cache. I'm having a tough time figuring out where the problem is. :P

Exactly! I agree 150%! Not only is Groundspeak just one of several listing services, there are also some private geocaches that are never published on any publicly-accessible geocache listing service, and rather, remain available only for members of a particular organization, such as members and friends of a Boy Scout or Girl Scout troop, staffers and students at a school, employees of a corporation, etcetera, and all such things are fine and harmless as well.

 

And, there are plenty of regions, even within the USA, where the waypoint coordinates and info for caches which have been submitted to geocaching.com for publication are first posted (prior to publication at Groundspeak) on regional geocaching forums or distributed at geo events. This too is fine and harmless.

 

So, the cache owner and her/his friend (the first finder) did nothing wrong, and the simple fact is that the OP did NOT score an FTF on the cache in question. Period.

Link to comment

I noticed this recently on a local find: the FTF being before it was published, and on top of that it was found by the person reviewing that cache. ...

I am highly skeptical of this assertion.

Me too. Got a link??

 

At any rate - the first person to find a cache, open it up and sign the log at a given set of coordinates is the FTF. Whether it was published here or not, on another site, used by friends for years or whatever.

 

FTF and 50 cents will buy you a soda pop (at least at several machines on Main Street in the town where I live). No harm done.

Link to comment

The cache owner is free to give out the coordinates for the cache anytime and in any manner he or she or they wish. And the FTF is simply that. The First to Find the cache no matter is it's before it's published, after it's published, or anything else.

Don't mean to single this poster out specifically, but this rational is bunk. There are no hard and fast designations for the FTF, Groundspeak doesn't recognize it. As such, you can choose your definition as you will. If you want to claim FTF do so.

Link to comment

I do not even put FTF swag in my caches anymore as the same guys are getting them.

 

There are other ways of doing prizes in your caches that open up the chances of winning to more than just the usual FTF suspects. I felt the same way you did, so I started doing cache lotteries. The first x number of finders get their names in a hat. My son draws the winner. Only done one so far, but feedback has been entirely positive.

Link to comment

I noticed this recently on a local find: the FTF being before it was published, and on top of that it was found by the person reviewing that cache.

If there is such a thing as fair in this world (which is highly debatable) this is not.

If someone wants to claim first to find, then I think they have to be in competition with others. To find out the coordinates ahead of publishing in any way is removing yourself from the competition. Like a runner starting the race a day ahead of time. How can that runner finish first when there is no one running with him? how can you claim first when no one else is in the running at that point? No one else CAN find it.

It seems to me to sour the sport of the game to do things like this.

So I can just go out and hide caches and give the coordinates to my friends so they can all log first to finds? The more I hide the more FTF's my friends get? No, I don't think that's sporting. Call me a sour-puss (and now I'm sure some of you will) but it just rubs me the wrong way in a game when we're all in this together (hiding and hunting caches).

It changes the mentality of the game. Before we are all in this together. Now, it depends on who you know.

Well in a game with few rules (and I do like it that way) you are able to do whatever you like, sporting or not. Hell, why not just log them and not bother to find them? You can do that too. See who actually checks the logs. Why bother to go out at all? Play however you want. It's your karma, and your fun. The caveat being that it doesn't ruin other's fun.

My geo-partner hid a new one the other day. I didn't know where it was, but waited for it to be published. I'd rather have a first to find that counts for me. I'd rather have no first to finds. (I was about 8th I think, and that's OK).

OK, so there's my rant. Nuff said. :P

 

OK, sour-puss. How's this for an untested theory? The CO went out and hid a cache. He went home and listed it on goecachingwithoutthefrog.com. The reviewer from this site saw it listed there and runs out to find it. No law says he/she can't belong to another site. Meanwhile, back at new cache central the hider has submitted the listing to The Frog. Our reviewer gets home all sweaty and covered with mud and sticks and full of thorn punctures. He/she sits down at her/his computer figuring to log their FTF on the other site. There waiting in the email is notice that the CO wants to see the cache published on this site. The reviewer has become the FTF on the cache (one cache, one FTF) and logs it before he/she pushes the button releasing it. No one has done anything wrong with the possible exception of the reviewer not wiping their feet before walking across moms floor on the way to her/his basement bedroom. (the reviewer really needs to think about getting his/herown place, and what is with all the Star Wars toys?)

Link to comment
At any rate - the first person to find a cache, open it up and sign the log at a given set of coordinates is the FTF. Whether it was published here or not, on another site, used by friends for years or whatever.

Piggy-backing on my previous post...

 

Why would assume the first signer "found" it? My guess is they went along while the CO was placing the cache. Regardless, you are providing a definitive definition that does not exist in the Groundspeak rules.

Link to comment

[ ...I am highly skeptical of this assertion.

 

Well thanks a lot. I'll try to find the cache I saw, but I won't publish it here. I'll send it to you offline. I don't want to incriminate any volunteer in public. THese guys do us a big service. They do a lot of work for us, so I'll grant them some FTF's.

Edited by Sol seaker
Link to comment

I think we need a new term to help designate what you are. You are clearly the FTFAP (First to Find After Publication).

FTFAP is often used in these parts if there have been finders prior to publication(FPTP). FPTP happens if a cache is pretested, coords handed out at an event, coords given to a friend. For most caches I have seen, FPTP admit that they have done so with the help of the cache owner.

 

The cache owner is free to give out the coordinates for the cache anytime and in any manner he or she or they wish. And the FTF is simply that. The First to Find the cache no matter is it's before it's published, after it's published, or anything else.

Don't mean to single this poster out specifically, but this rational is bunk. There are no hard and fast designations for the FTF, Groundspeak doesn't recognize it. As such, you can choose your definition as you will. If you want to claim FTF do so.

"choose your definition as you will" I do. I enjoy the FTF rush. I have 980 finds and 104 FTFs of one type or another. Two were accidental finds. I was out one day hiding three caches in a downtown area and found a cache exactly where I was going to hide one. I signed the log and then waited until it was published to log my "prefind". One cache was published but then retracted while I was out hunting for stage one. I could not find it but I did find the final based on information on the cache page. Again, when I logged online I told my tale of the "prefind". Lastly, I was given coords for a cache at an event before it was published. I waited until I knew it was published before going to find it. Turns out I was the first after publication to find it. (FTFAP).

 

FTF is an unofficial number, you are the only one that you need to justify it too.

 

Loch Cache

Link to comment

...

Regardless, you are providing a definitive definition that does not exist in the Groundspeak rules.

No your right it doesn't.

 

But if FTF stands for First to Find - then the definition is clear. First is first - not second or third or fourth or first after some event has occured.

 

And find is clear - if you already know where it is - you can't "find" it. You have to seek to find.

Link to comment

 

OK, sour-puss. How's this for an untested theory?

 

OK well thats getting much too complicated for my pee-brain. Maybe that theory has been tested anyway. Maybe that's what's going on,.

 

how about if I just keep deleting logs on one cache so everyone can be first to find? A First to find Cache for everyone. Name it that. Maybe then everyone can be happy.

 

Or maybe we'll all meet at a bar nearby and all go there together so we can have 50 first to finds for each cache. Wouldn't that be the party. Then we'd have to all go back to the bar and celebrate afterwards. Unless we drank too much and none of us could find it.

Now there's caching with group spirit!!!

 

what the heck, who really cares anyway? It's just a game.

Link to comment

Last, the FTF prize. Not a fan of these. I got one a while back. It was a gift card, like 10 or 15 bucks. Got me to thinking. The same guys get FTF every time. If I want to give them money I'll mail it to them. So I stopped taking FTF prizes.

 

That's why I stopped giving them out and the ftf prize has pretty much disappeared around here. probably for the same reason. We've got a lot of retirees down here and the same couple of guys get all the FTFs regardless of what time of day the cache is published because they have lots of free time. I don't begrudge them that, but they don't need any more useless trinkets.

Link to comment

at 10:19 pm mst a notification of a cache was emailed to me. i recognized the area as being less than a mile from my home. i hopped in the car and at 10:23 was on site.

 

Something that I've noticed about email notifications, at least when I receive them, is that they may or may not be arriving at the same time that others receive them.

 

One of my caching buddies frequently calls me to see if I'm going to find "the new cache that just came out". he frequently receives email notifications before I do. Sometimes there can be a long lapse in their arrival in my inbox.

 

Just wondering out loud, here.......

 

Maybe not all notifications are sent at the exact same time?

Link to comment

at 10:19 pm mst a notification of a cache was emailed to me. i recognized the area as being less than a mile from my home. i hopped in the car and at 10:23 was on site.

 

Something that I've noticed about email notifications, at least when I receive them, is that they may or may not be arriving at the same time that others receive them.

 

One of my caching buddies frequently calls me to see if I'm going to find "the new cache that just came out". he frequently receives email notifications before I do. Sometimes there can be a long lapse in their arrival in my inbox.

 

Just wondering out loud, here.......

 

Maybe not all notifications are sent at the exact same time?

 

The most likely cause of this is email providers. Some are lightning fast. Some take 10 minutes or more to process a message. Too many variables to account for them all, and Groundspeak certainly can't do anything about it.

Link to comment

...

Regardless, you are providing a definitive definition that does not exist in the Groundspeak rules.

No your right it doesn't.

 

But if FTF stands for First to Find - then the definition is clear. First is first - not second or third or fourth or first after some event has occured.

 

And find is clear - if you already know where it is - you can't "find" it. You have to seek to find.

I'll happily 'agree to disagree' with you, but the definition is far from "clear". The only reason to give a friend pre-knowledge of a cache is precisely so he can circumvent 'fair play' and log a FTF. What other reason is there? This practice would probably not exist if no one cared about FTFs. In the spirit of fairness, I have no problem logging a FTF if someone previously signed it while placing it with the owner or beta-tested it (though I haven't done it myself).

 

Regarldless, you are making up a definition for a loosely bandied about term, one for which there is no formal definition. 'First to Find' doesn't necessarily literally mean first to find any more that 'Death March' means actually dying while on a long hike.

Link to comment
I am highly skeptical of this assertion.
Well thanks a lot. I'll try to find the cache I saw, but I won't publish it here. I'll send it to you offline. I don't want to incriminate any volunteer in public. THese guys do us a big service. They do a lot of work for us, so I'll grant them some FTF's.
You've pretty much already incriminated your local reviewer.
Link to comment
...I am highly skeptical of this assertion.

 

Well thanks a lot. I'll try to find the cache I saw, but I won't publish it here. I'll send it to you offline. I don't want to incriminate any volunteer in public. THese guys do us a big service. They do a lot of work for us, so I'll grant them some FTF's.

He signed the log, doesn't that 'incriminate' himself? Go ahead and post it here. It doesn't sound like he's trying to hide anything.

Link to comment
Call me a sour-puss

Sour Puss! :D:P

(You know I just had to do that!)

 

it just rubs me the wrong way in a game when we're all in this together (hiding and hunting caches)

I think your ire is being caused by unreasonable expectations.

In the OP's example, hiding and hunting caches aren't the only games being played.

There's also the FTF Game going on, which is a completely different critter all together.

Because not all of us opt to participate in the FTF Game, we might occasionally run afoul of those who do.

You should be gentle in your critiques, because these folks aren't playing the same game you are.

They are having fun their way. You are also free to have fun your way. Right & wrong don't really come into play here.

Link to comment
I am highly skeptical of this assertion.
Well thanks a lot. I'll try to find the cache I saw, but I won't publish it here. I'll send it to you offline. I don't want to incriminate any volunteer in public. THese guys do us a big service. They do a lot of work for us, so I'll grant them some FTF's.
You've pretty much already incriminated your local reviewer.

It should be noted that the first day's logs on a cache are not noted on the website in the proper order. The first found logs always seem to appear below the published log, making it look like it was found before it was published, which is not necessarily the case.

 

That said, there is nothing wrong with the reviewer running out the door immediately after pressing the Big Red Button.

Link to comment

Yeah, I went for an FTF less than 1,000 ft from my house. Got there in minutes, but I had been beaten to the draw by the parents of the hider that had been given the coords ahead of time. Don't know if they got the notification at the same time I did, but I don't see how. They live much farther away than 1,000 ft. Don't think it's right. In fact, I've found a few caches before they were officially activated and I logged am as soon as they came online. But I did not claim FTF. Just ain't fair. Oh well. Move on.

Link to comment
I'll happily 'agree to disagree' with you, but the definition is far from "clear". The only reason to give a friend pre-knowledge of a cache is precisely so he can circumvent 'fair play' and log a FTF. What other reason is there? This practice would probably not exist if no one cared about FTFs. In the spirit of fairness, I have no problem logging a FTF if someone previously signed it while placing it with the owner or beta-tested it (though I haven't done it myself).

 

Regarldless, you are making up a definition for a loosely bandied about term, one for which there is no formal definition. 'First to Find' doesn't necessarily literally mean first to find any more that 'Death March' means actually dying while on a long hike.

I suspect that there are plenty of prefectly good reasons. Some of them have been shared in this very thread.
Link to comment
I'll happily 'agree to disagree' with you, but the definition is far from "clear". The only reason to give a friend pre-knowledge of a cache is precisely so he can circumvent 'fair play' and log a FTF. What other reason is there? This practice would probably not exist if no one cared about FTFs. In the spirit of fairness, I have no problem logging a FTF if someone previously signed it while placing it with the owner or beta-tested it (though I haven't done it myself).

 

Regarldless, you are making up a definition for a loosely bandied about term, one for which there is no formal definition. 'First to Find' doesn't necessarily literally mean first to find any more that 'Death March' means actually dying while on a long hike.

I suspect that there are plenty of prefectly good reasons. Some of them have been shared in this very thread.

Ok, I retract the "only". Still if said folks are logging them as FTFs thats strong evidence for that being the reason. I've been the first to sign the log book a couple of times before the cache was posted. I didn't claim FTF on any of them.

Link to comment

I am a purist

 

Noone should be able to sign a log book and claim FTF before it is published unless they stumble upon it.

 

It gives the local cachers a better competition than total number of finds.

 

Also, people pay to get notification. It devalues premium membership when people do this.

 

Personally I will claim FTF if I am the first to find after publicaion no matter who has signed it before.

Link to comment

I think we need a new term to help designate what you are. You are clearly the FTFAP (First to Find After Publication).

 

I coined the term FTFP for this very situation, FTF before publication. Even got the license plate for it!

 

1971e1c2-ae02-48ad-a3cd-4f79ae292964.jpg

 

(Edited to add "FTF before publication" to distinguish it from my specific situation which did not involve the hider giving the coords out early.)

Edited by NotThePainter
Link to comment

Many people are assuming that others care about their FTF game. The fact is, many don't. If I as a cache hider email my 20 bestest friends the location of my new cache, how is that unfair? Maybe I really don't care who is first, or think the whole FTF game is silly so I play it my own way. How am I being unfair because I don't play by your rules?

 

FTFP is goofy too - it should be FTFAPOG (First To Find After Publication On Geocaching.com) as it's already been said there are many other ways to publish a cache besides on geocaching.com

 

Actually, maybe it should be FTFAPOGWPK (First To Find After Publication On Geocaching.com Without Prior Knowledge) as I might decide to tell somebody I've arranged to have my cache published at 6:00pm, so please be at the so-and-so trailhead at 6pm. If I did that, my friend would be FTFAPOG but not FTFAPOGWPK, or something like that.

 

Last I checked, a logbook only has one first signer. If I rushed out to find a cache after publication and somebody signed it the day before, then who cares. Next time maybe I'll sign it first. Doesn't really matter.

 

There's one guy in my area who hid a cache with a cash prize under a sock puppet, and claimed the first with his real account. OK, whatever. That doesn't bother me either.

Link to comment

Many people are assuming that others care about their FTF game. The fact is, many don't. If I as a cache hider email my 20 bestest friends the location of my new cache, how is that unfair? Maybe I really don't care who is first, or think the whole FTF game is silly so I play it my own way. How am I being unfair because I don't play by your rules?

 

FTFP is goofy too - it should be FTFAPOG (First To Find After Publication On Geocaching.com) as it's already been said there are many other ways to publish a cache besides on geocaching.com

 

Actually, maybe it should be FTFAPOGWPK (First To Find After Publication On Geocaching.com Without Prior Knowledge) as I might decide to tell somebody I've arranged to have my cache published at 6:00pm, so please be at the so-and-so trailhead at 6pm. If I did that, my friend would be FTFAPOG but not FTFAPOGWPK, or something like that.

 

Last I checked, a logbook only has one first signer. If I rushed out to find a cache after publication and somebody signed it the day before, then who cares. Next time maybe I'll sign it first. Doesn't really matter.

 

There's one guy in my area who hid a cache with a cash prize under a sock puppet, and claimed the first with his real account. OK, whatever. That doesn't bother me either.

 

If you don't care, why would you email anybody the coords prior to publication?

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...