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Geo-Ethics?


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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

 

If you don't own it, you can sign the log as a 'Beta Tester' just don't claim FTF and everyone is happy.

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and everyone is happy.

 

Doesn't that statement belong in the realm of "Once upon a time" and "Happily ever after" :D:D

 

You can always find someone that thinks their way is the "right" way and if they would not do it that way then they will think you are "wrong" and sometimes they are even vocal about it :D

 

So I would suggest that when you log it, write a log stating exactly why you are logging it. That might keep the Nay-sayers from contacting you.

 

But always remember you are playing your game and your found/not found logs are just a representation of your caching history so you are welcome to keep track of your history however you want to.

 

Happy Caching

 

GEO.JOE

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Does it feel like cheating to you?

 

Yep that's what I say. Your opinion is the most important.

 

IMO if I saw where and how he hid it I would not log a find because that's similar to finding your own cache. But if you only know of a general 15-30 foot radius, then I would log the find because that's what the gps does.

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

Click ignore.

 

If you helped hide it how could you find it? Play the game how you want but I don't see how it would be statistically correct.

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

Click ignore.

 

If you helped hide it how could you find it? Play the game how you want but I don't see how it would be statistically correct.

 

There are some who just don't care about the statistics of it all.

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You can always add it to your ignore list to keep it from showing up in searches.

 

I have hidden two caches under a sock puppet account. In this case it literally is a sock puppet, a hand puppet geocaching mascot. :D Both these caches are on my ignore list. And yes, you can have an ignored cache on your watchlist, works fine.

 

But if you logged these as finds, I'm sure the Geocaching Police wouldn't come and take you away or anything.

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

 

Log it. Just don't FTF. And be careful asking for opinions in these here forums. You'll never get a consensus.

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I see you're part of a family team (going by your name.) Here's another option. Take your family out there and have them find it...then it counts.

 

We did that with some local caches that our friends took us to before we were geocachers. The boys and I knew where they were, but dh didn't...so we made HIM find them...and then we had the added bonus of giggling as he looked right past them :P

 

Personally I don't care what you decide, so please yourself. Just my $.02

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I see you're part of a family team (going by your name.) Here's another option. Take your family out there and have them find it...then it counts.

 

We did that with some local caches that our friends took us to before we were geocachers. The boys and I knew where they were, but dh didn't...so we made HIM find them...and then we had the added bonus of giggling as he looked right past them :P

 

Personally I don't care what you decide, so please yourself. Just my $.02

 

Bingo. I hid a cache with another cacher recently and I didn't claim FTF because I didn't want to stir up drama amongst the cachers that find that aspect of the game important. I haven't claimed a find on it since the FTF because I just think it's cheesy- not "wrong" just kind of silly. However- next time I'm in the area I will send my kids looking for it because we all cache collectively under the same account.

 

I recently hosted an event and I haven't decided if I will claim an "attended" log on that cache because, technically, our whole family did attend the event. Seems the local practice is to not post an attended log on your own event, but if I do I'm going to lose any sleep over it.

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I recently posted a topic very simmilar to this. I got people posting that felt very strongly on both sides of the debate. In the end, I think you can do whatever you want. Just remember that if you log it, your found count is one higher than you have acctualy found.

 

As for the ignore list, only primium members can use that. You could become a primium member, but then that is $30 just so you can ignore a cache. It is realy all up to you.

 

So far, I have not loged the cache in question, but I may well do it in the future, depends how much it bugges me.

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You can in the technical sense.

 

But I suspect you would not be asking unless you already have some qualms over doing it.

 

In my book - you cannot "find" something if you already know where it is.

Ditto this. You can't find that which you already know the location.

 

You could just leave it out there for a little while until someone decides that they don't like the hide and posts a "rehid it better than I found it" note. Then you and your friend can go out to do some maintenance, but first you have to find where the person before you might have stuck it.

 

The best of both worlds!

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

 

You have a couple of solutions.

Ignore it. It goes away from your happy swarm, but you get zero credit for your work on the cache.

You can have your self listed as a co hider. You still get no credit, it still kills your buzz on the happy swarm and you still have to do something with it.

You can find it. It now goes away from your swarm, but your find count is one high and your hidden count is one low. However you at least have a correct hide/find total.

 

That's about it for options.

The real happy option is for this site to allow true co-woernship where you both get credit as a hider. Your counts would be right, your happy swarm would be happy and cosmic balance would be maintained. We aren't there yet so I'd find it or ignore it and call it good.

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

Click ignore.

 

If you helped hide it how could you find it? Play the game how you want but I don't see how it would be statistically correct.

 

There are some who just don't care about the statistics of it all.

Yeah- me. I can't understand how someone can say you have found something they have not. There is a reason why the OP asked. It didn't feel right.

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Irecently got a friend of mine to join the website, gave and him his first cache. I was with him when he hid it, and my name is attached to it, but... as it is not mine, it shows on the local map as a dnf in a swarm of happy faces... frustrating!!! Is it cheating to count it as a find, so I can remove this little green box from the middle of my happy swarm?

Click ignore.

 

If you helped hide it how could you find it? Play the game how you want but I don't see how it would be statistically correct.

 

There are some who just don't care about the statistics of it all.

Yeah- me. I can't understand how someone can say you have found something they have not. There is a reason why the OP asked. It didn't feel right.

 

I agree. It didn't feel right. Neither does a colonoscopy. That doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. The way I see it is that if the OP doesn't care about his stats and the way they compare to others stats then it really makes no difference. It seems that the only concern is for his map full of smiles. He isn't cheating anyone else out of their fun if he logs it. The only questions left are does it feel wrong to him and if so can he accept that sometimes there is no right thing to do?

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My opinion, not that it's worth a plug nickle to anybody but me, is if you claim a find something that you already knew about it will cheapen the meaning of the other finds you have legitimately found. Realistically though it really is a matter that you will have to decide for yourself based on what you feel is right.

 

When I first started caching I was caching with my nephews (they had a separate caching ID) and they retrieved a log book from up in a tree where I'd decided the cache had to be. I signed the log book and claimed the find and in my mind I justified it by saying, hey we were all part of a team that day so I was entitled to claim the find. Some would agree with that and some wouldn't, but at that time that was my thought process. Within a couple days it really started to bother me that I did that and I got to feeling like for my own convictions of what's right and wrong I should have logged it a DNF since there was no way I'd have ever climbed that tree. Well I kept that a Found It log for probably about 3 months and it was constantly bothering me that I felt like I'd "cheated". I ended up editing and changing the Found It log to a DNF and also changed my DNF log to reflect that I had a great time watching my nephews get their smiley on this cache since I was to afraid to climb the tree (actually I worded it vaguely so I didn't post a spoiler about the location of the cache). Once I corrected my log to reflect a DNF all of a sudden I felt happy about my experience at that cache.

 

So the moral of the story is don't sweat it to much. Do what you feel is right today and if you decide later on that you made a mistake in how you handled it, you can always go back and correct the situation so you can be happy with it. Happy caching!!!! :P

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This is a question I've been thinking about as well. We cache as a family, but I did some hides with a friend. The hides are listed in his account but both our names or on the page.

 

My wife and kids would like to find them and log. They do not know just where they are. They know what parking lot one is in, but other than that, they don't know.

 

I haven't told them more until I decide how we should deal with it. They don't want to be cut out of caches and chances to log. So for 4 out of 5 of the crew it it is a smiley, If they find them. I'm thinking I can live with that as long as they don't ask me for any hints.

 

The other side of it is like saying if I go caching without my family, I should only get 1/5 of a smiley.

 

My wife has asked me to take her to caches that I've already found, but she wanted to find on her own. We didn't try to claim 2 finds on it.

 

Most cachers play the game with what they feel is right and proper for them. Just as in living life. If your comfortable with your decision and not offend a CO. Go for it. If it don't feel right to you. Don't do it.

 

For me I'm more concerned with my family's ethics and the cache owners intent, than the other players.

 

I think what we are going to do is let the family find them on their own, just not log them at all. I don't want them on the ignore list because I like to check the logs on those caches.

Edited by BAPMAN CREW
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Especially after this recent brouhaha concerning ALR's. According to the definition of geocaching: You sign your name in the logbook - you can log a find. And if you explain what you have done in your log "I actually helped hide this cache, but I am logging it to for admin purposes" - you are squeaky clean. Go for it!

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If you helped hide it how could you find it?

Develop short term memory loss? :P

I helped my oldest daughter hide her one and only cache in December 2005. I know what woods it's in, but that's about it.

I no longer have any clue where the stages are, or where the final is.

I expect that, one day she'll ask me to do maintenance on it, as she is in college out of state.

When that day comes, I'll have to go through the same work as anyone else, in order to locate the final.

I will be claiming a find.

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...

I think what we are going to do is let the family find them on their own, just not log them at all. I don't want them on the ignore list because I like to check the logs on those caches.

The trick there is to put it on your watch list. that will get you log notifications. Then ignore it. That takes it off your list. This used to work. Things could have changed since I've done that.

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I would log it as a find with a very clear note explaining why, but the next time I went out with a friend who is hiding a cache, I would stay out of sight while they hide it. Once they have hidden it, I would then try to find it just to check their hide. I would not try to claim FTF in this situation, but my conscience would be clear when I registered it as a find.

Edited by the3gmen
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OK... the masses have spoken... I am not going to log it as a find, as it is cheating in my opinion... you can not 'find' something if you already know where it is. I will add it to my ignore list instead, and add it to my watchlist instead. Thanks all!!! duboisfamily

 

You have chosen well grasshopper! :huh:

 

I was in the same boat you are in when i helped with my first cohide a few years back. Then there was another that i was with the person when they hid it, then another, etc,,,. At first it was kinda annoying to see those show up but then i found the ignore feature and haven't looked back since. This works very well but make sure to remember and click the "that are not on my ignore list" button when you do local pocket queries... :(

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...

I think what we are going to do is let the family find them on their own, just not log them at all. I don't want them on the ignore list because I like to check the logs on those caches.

The trick there is to put it on your watch list. that will get you log notifications. Then ignore it. That takes it off your list. This used to work. Things could have changed since I've done that.

 

It still works, i have several that i use these two filters on.

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The OP has reached an answer, one which I agree with.

 

My personal ethics on this matter are: "It Depends"

 

I have helped hide a cache. I helped with the original idea, helped gather swag and containers, created the Finders cards, assisted with picking locations, etc. It is not tied to my account as someone else is listed as the cache owner. I will not log a Find on it. I use the "Ignore + Watch" technique.

 

I have been with people who have hidden caches. I had nothing to do with the cache -- it was their container, their idea, their location, etc. I just happened to be present when it was hidden. I will log that cache as a Find, if I return on a subsequent visit and can locate it. Some of these are on the tops of mountains, but I don't feel right logging a Find just because I was there when it was dropped off. Like I said though -- IF I return and find it I will log it as such. Until then it remains just another possible caching target to me.

 

That's my personal approach and how I feel I want to play the game based upon my experiences thus far. As with all of my personal caching rules, I reserve the right to change them at any time without notice as my experiences change and I learn more.

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This is not a matter of ethics. In fact, the whole notion that this should be some huge philosophical discussion borders on laughable. But that doesn't explain why I sit here addicted to reading this thread. Just log the darn cache.

 

I have to agree with bflentje. All too often I just sit here rolling my eyes and shaking my head slowly :( as I read the debates that go on here. Some of you guys need to get out and do a little more caching!

 

But then, I guess, I'd miss the entertainment you provide, so nevermind. As you were. :huh:

Edited by knowschad
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This is not a matter of ethics. In fact, the whole notion that this should be some huge philosophical discussion borders on laughable. But that doesn't explain why I sit here addicted to reading this thread. Just log the darn cache.

 

I have to agree with bflentje. All too often I just sit here rolling my eyes and shaking my head slowly :unsure: as I read the debates that go on here. Some of you guys need to get out and do a little more caching!

 

But then, I guess, I'd miss the entertainment you provide, so nevermind. As you were. :P

 

Like your "the media does not get it thread" :lol:

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OK... the masses have spoken... I am not going to log it as a find, as it is cheating in my opinion... you can not 'find' something if you already know where it is. I will add it to my ignore list instead, and add it to my watchlist instead. Thanks all!!! duboisfamily

 

By this reasoning you cannot log caches that you sign when found as part of a group. So when caching with a buddy only the one who finds it gets to count it? I say you should log it.

 

StaticTank

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