Fake geocoins

[+ARGUS.360]

Recently found a geocoin copy, geocacher sayes he has the real one in his collection and placed the fake one in the cache so no one would steel it. Now whats the point in finding it if you can't touch the real think. I see no pleasure in this and find it unfair for honest geocachers. Maybe the owner sould ask for it to be placed in premium member only caches.

any thoughts ????

[+Knight2000]

I have found one like this.

 

I dont know what the majority think but this is what I would do if I had one.

 

I have no desire to have trackables as there is a large likelihood that they will get muggled, lost or stolen. Especially coins. Pay $10 for a coin and then leave it in a cache? Not for me.

 

I have no desire to touch any coins. If you like to touch coins you can come find a cache that we have found. We leave foreign coins and buffalo nickels.

[+Turlutortue]

A premium member is not exclusively an honest one. A non premium member is not always a stealer.

Sadly there are coin stealers in all sphere of the community. But let's not put all the bad apples in the same bag. I know geocachers who have lots of coins out there that are still going on and some missing.

 

My first coin release was a Family matters geocoin and I know who has it in hand was supposed to get it back in circulation and now he won't reply to my emails. This one is consider missing for me. I will make a fake one to replace it, to let it continue it's journey.

 

We were considering making doubles of the coins we wanted to be released just for that reason.

Not done yet, but considering.

 

I am not a premium member, my geohubby is and he has the GPS, no need to me to pay $30 to be premium.

I like geocaching because of the coins I find, real or not. If cachers put all the coins in premium member it wouldn't be fair to us, honest members only.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Turlutortue

[+Bhob]

I would suggest not expending too much effort on the "subscriber only" geocache route

 

If your item is intended to travel, it will probably not be too very long before the item is placed in a non-subscriber geocache

 

Even putting a note on it stating "only place me in subscriber-only geocaches" will most likely just delay things

 

Eventually, a well-intentioned person will overlook the note, and put it in a non-subscriber geocache

[+fuzziebear3]

In every act we do, there is some level of risk. Simply driving to work or breathing the air...

 

Some choose to not risk sending their coins into the great unknown, as they have had bad experiences before. I understand them, but I personally enjoy watching the travels of my coins, and hope that they add a bit of joy to someone's day. And if that person feels the joy, then I hope that they want to give that feeling to the next person who might find the coin as well. While I know there are a few people out there who will spoil the game, I still think there are the majority who will embrace the spirit of adventure.

 

On the other hand, I do have a few coins that really speak to me, and I can't bear to part with them. These I don't release but rather share with people by allowing them to discover them directly from me.

 

As you continue caching, you will see everything from great real coins, to carefully made replicas, to simple photocopies of a coin. It is your choice what you send into the world, but with the realization that a replica will not have the full effect of an original.

[+Geo.Error]

The kopie coin will still give you a icon.

 

I am coin addicted and icon addicted, so i won't complain.

 

I just hope they place a photo from the coin by the coin page.

 

So i can enjoy the coin.

 

 

i have one kopie coin , it is hide in a nightcache from me....i am smart enough to not place there the real coin.

 

Cachers can log if they want, it is there choice.

 

Just it is your choice if you want to move a kopie coin to a other cache.

 

 

I have lost many real coins so i understand why coiners send kopie coins into the world.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Geo.Error

[+Team JSAM]

IMO if you don't want to chance losing them then just keep them in your collection. I dislike finding a proxy coin its just no fun and not the same. I can understand someone not wanting to lose there coin but don't get the fake coin thing its rather disappointing to find one and I never log one. To me its virtual logging anyway because you did not see, feel or touch the coin.

[+opalsns]

I don't release Coins or TBs anymore, well , eith the exception of Todie race coins.

All my TBs went missing and the first coin I released was stolen by someone last year. Funny, The TBs bother me more than the missing coin. I mean a coin well , to me it seems the coins are the most collectable. But what Idiot would want to steal a bunch of lttle "toys" attached to a tag ???? LOL!!!!!

Anyway, There are alot of micros that are fairly inexpensive and a person could get them to release.

1. You pretty much know it's going to get gone , but you can see how far it get's and who finds it.

2. You can keep the most important coins to be discovered at events, etc....

3. Alot less worry on an inexpensive coin, and still fun to watch.

 

Opalsns

[+teamhaynes]

I have only released one coin and only 3 people touched it before it was gone.... If I had done my homework, I also would have realized that it was on the rare side (a volunteer coin that I won at an event)

 

I guess the temptation for some folks is just too much. I was quite frustrated when it disappeared, but when I saw similar versions of the same coin listed on ebay going for close to 50 bucks, I kicked myself for releasing it.

 

Now I have begun collecting coins and hopefully will have enough to begin trading them soon. I also enjoy visiting events and collecting icons (yes I am addicted)

 

Now back to the op question... I don't think I would plan on turning any of my coins into proxies and I would probably not log a proxy if I find one, although after losing my coin I have no problem with this approach.

 

I would like to have the icon for a real coin that I actually have in my possession (even if just briefly at an event)

 

The last event I attended was interesting... Lots of coins. I made up a printout with the numbers of my coins so that people could grab the paper and not worry about writing down the tracking numbers.

 

Funny thing was that several people grabbed the paper and never looked at the coins. It seemed that they were more interested in logging the coin then actually seeing it.

 

Maybe I should just start dropping a laminated list of tracking numbers in each cache. It would be a lot less trouble than making a proxy.

[+Bhob]

given the choice between a copy and nothing at all, I will take the copy every time

[+Kealia]

Do a quick search using the following terms and you will get more opinions that you can read:

"fake"

"proxy"

"copy"

"paper"

"copies"

"replica"

 

This has been debated ad naseum and there are two clear camps:

1) Don't like 'em

2) Your tracking number, do what you want

Edited April 14, 2009 by Kealia

[+Droo]

So long as there are geocoin thieves there are people fed up or afraid of getting ripped off and PROXIES are their insurance, deterence or even retribution.

 

I used to hate proxies but since then I've had dozens of coins stolen or muggled. Amazing what happens when you walk a mile in another person's shoes. Is my sense of entitlement at handling a shiny metal pretty more important than the fear and disappointment at having it stolen? Is yours?

 

Edit to stay On Topic: What's the big deal? Isn't a proxie better than nothing especially when nothing is usually what you can expect when coins disappear so fast?

Edited April 14, 2009 by Droo

[+Kealia]

Neither are ok.

 

It's no different than going to Disneyland and finding out that your favorite ride is closed.

Are you disappointed? Sure.

 

Would you like to go on a ride that is not the real ride, but called the same thing? Not me.

 

Imagine showing up for Pirates of the Carribbean and ending up sitting in a boat on the dock with a couple of people in pirate costumes saying "argh". ok, maybe some hyperbole there - but you get my point.

[+Droo]

I get your point K., but if your favourite ride is constantly vandalized you can count on it being shut down and to prevent further vandalism the best pirate ride in Disneyland may just be the rowboat with a few halfwit teens saying "argh".

 

Edit to add: Also with paid admission to DL you'd expect your favourite ride to be up and running while there is no price of admission for finding a coin, except to the coin owner who is assuming all the risk.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Droo

[+GeocoinGuy]

<snip> Amazing what happens when you walk a mile in another person's shoes. </snip>

 

heh - You're a mile away, and you got their shoes :D

[+Tha Saint]

I currently have a few REAL coins traveling & also a few PROXY coins traveling. The proxy coins I send out are very well made & are as close to the real thing as possible. I have gotten a bunch of compliments on my proxy coins.

 

As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. If I want to replicate it and send it out thats up to me.

If you dont mind seeing a well made replica & you want an icon & to help move it... well great.

If you open a cache and are not happy with seeing a replica it should mean absolutely nothing to you. You dont have to touch it, move it or do anything with it. I dont see why it would bother anyone.

I have had no problems with any replica's that I have sent out.

[+Tha Saint]

I currently have a few REAL coins traveling & also a few PROXY coins traveling. The proxy coins I send out are very well made & are as close to the real thing as possible. I have gotten a bunch of compliments on my proxy coins.

 

As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. If I want to replicate it and send it out thats up to me.

If you dont mind seeing a well made replica & you want an icon & to help move it... well great.

If you open a cache and are not happy with seeing a replica it should mean absolutely nothing to you. You dont have to touch it, move it or do anything with it. I dont see why it would bother anyone.

I have had no problems with any replica's that I have sent out.

[+Renegade Knight]

...As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. ...

If all you ever did was place a note on the coin page that said "Proxy" somewhere. You have done all you need to do.

 

As much as I might like to touch some things in a Museum, they don't let me. I know this going in. If you give the same notice you have done your job as well as it can be done.

[+GATOULIS]

HUH! What can I say...

 

when I first started geocaching, I used to I wouldn't like seeing a copy of a coin in a cache! Especially if the cache was a hard find etc!

 

Now I admit that not only I understand the geocachers that made the copis so they can save their coin, but I am thinking doing the same for coins that are very well made, that are beautiful and I am afraid that they will be lost!

 

why all that?? I have out 24 coins travelling (17 belong to TWR race!), and 4 where comming to me so I can adopt them!

 

So far, I have lost 3 coin that were coming to me, and from the ones in my possesion... for sure 2, but I am afraid that the real number is 5!

I turned only one in unknown possision and I am thinking for an other one! I do not know what else to do! One coin was found by a new cacher who only found 2 caches, he took my coin and he is gone! I sended emails... nothing! He is not even entering in the site!

 

what makes me even more sad... I haven't even seen some of the lost coins!!! They were wining coins from cointests or adopted coins!

 

I do not know how to make a copy of a coin! Maybe scan the coin or take a photo of it cut the coin, glue it in a thick cardboard and then laminate it??? And if the tracking number doesn't show clearly?

 

If I do that in one of my coins, I will surelly put an appology for the finder and an explaination... but where? attached to the coin... in the coins page...?

 

I agree that it is up to the finder if he will help it travel or leave it where he found it!

[onthehunt101]

...As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. ...

If all you ever did was place a note on the coin page that said "Proxy" somewhere. You have done all you need to do.

 

As much as I might like to touch some things in a Museum, they don't let me. I know this going in. If you give the same notice you have done your job as well as it can be done.

 

I like that idea. You could even change the name of the coin to say "My Geocoin - Proxy" Then everyone could see it on the inventory.

[+Tha Saint]

...As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. ...

If all you ever did was place a note on the coin page that said "Proxy" somewhere. You have done all you need to do.

 

As much as I might like to touch some things in a Museum, they don't let me. I know this going in. If you give the same notice you have done your job as well as it can be done.

 

All of my coin proxy pages state :

 

This is a replica of a coin that is in my collection. I tried to make this as close to the real thing as possible. Thank You for helping this coin move from cache to cache.

[+Kealia]

Droo- point taken about the pirates. I know when I pay to get in that some rides may be down for maintenance, broken, etc. It's a risk you take when you go.

 

------------

 

I feel the same way about coins that I set out. It's a known risk that I take when I send them out. Some travel well, some get lost, some get stolen. The logs from people that find the coins I have sent out are usually great - they appreciate seeing and feeling a real coin.

 

I understand that most will never change their mind on this subject, and that's cool. Everybody gets their opinion.

 

What I don't get is the need to state "proxy" or even put an apology on the coin page. To me, that's acknowledging that you're doing something that people don't like - which in turn means that you shouldn't do it.

 

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but that's the way I see it. If they really are "just as good as the real thing" there should be no reason to identify them as anything different, right?

[+ARGUS.360]

I can fully understand that some realy like geocoins but if you do not want to part with them, don't show them. As for me, I would much rather find, feel, enjoy the craftmanship of the real thing. I find it great that some people are willing to maybe part with their geocoins so others may have the chance to admire them. In my personnal opinion it is no fun when it is not a real one. I'm definatly not in it to show off how many I have found over time ! So I do enjpy the real thing. And THANKYOU to those who have the guts to make them travel. Like Kealia said: I'ts a risk !!!!

[+Tennessee Jed]

I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said, but I do have a question. To those who release fake coins, would you rather find and move fake coins instead of real coins?

Edited April 16, 2009 by Tennessee Jed

[+Chiroptera]

As for the debate on how people feel about fakes..well, let me say this. Its my money & my coin and I will do what I want with it. If I want to replicate it and send it out thats up to me.

If you dont mind seeing a well made replica & you want an icon & to help move it... well great.

If you open a cache and are not happy with seeing a replica it should mean absolutely nothing to you. You dont have to touch it, move it or do anything with it. I dont see why it would bother anyone.

I have had no problems with any replica's that I have sent out.

That's how I see it.

 

I haven't sent out replicas until now but I will do for all Coins I have sent out and that are stolen or lost. I bought the tracking number - so why not? I have shared the coins already - so why do you want me to be punished a second time by not moving the replica?

 

I have some coins I would share with the community if i knew they would keep travelling - (f.e. a red Anthus laptop - but honestly: would you send this coin out? would you really think it would travel a long time?) I have thought about a replica for the icon-hunters first - but after all the replica-discussions I won't do it .

 

If all you ever did was place a note on the coin page that said "Proxy" somewhere. You have done all you need to do.

Well: all the thief has to do is to write down "stolen" - as long as he doesn't...

And I really like the next thief to be disappointed about the fake

Hmmm... maybe you got a new anti-theft solution: I should add the text to ALL of my coins

 

Answering the question about taking fakes with me: A beautiful fake is better than a real coin I have seen hundreds of before. A TB can be more interesting than a coin. If I decide to take any traveller with me it has to to with the possibility to put it in a cache in the next future (i.e: will I cache at all and will I find something that is big enough to hold the found item?) or maybe with the mission. The "just-caring-about-real-coins"thing is a coin-hunter problem and the majority of cachers I know in person are primarely looking for caches not for coins or icons.

[+Tha Saint]

I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said, but I do have a question. To those who release fake coins, would you rather find and move fake coins instead of real coins?

 

Ofc I would rather see a real coin in a cache rather than a copy. BUT, I am in no way going to get bent out of shape if I come across a copy. I have the choice (as does everyone else), when I come across a copy I can.... a)Discover it (for icon hunters) b)Move it c)Ignore it and do nothing

Here is what I think the major problem is in this whole debate.. Certain people think that they have the "right" to demand how a person travels an item. If you come to a cache and it has a copy coin in it... guess what... That coin was not sent out traveling specifically for "you". It was sent out for anyone who will enjoy it, and if that doesnt include you... well you have absolutely no say or right to dictate what the coin should be or look like.

[+Renegade Knight]

...And I really like the next thief to be disappointed about the fake ...

 

Now that's an angle I didn't think of. Very nice, and apt.

 

I don't have a solution to your theiving problem other than say anthrax but you would pick up the genuine coin lovers as well so that's out.

[+Kealia]

Certain people think that they have the "right" to demand how a person travels an item. If you come to a cache and it has a copy coin in it... guess what... That coin was not sent out traveling specifically for "you". It was sent out for anyone who will enjoy it, and if that doesnt include you... well you have absolutely no say or right to dictate what the coin should be or look like.

 

I don't see this at all. Nobody is demanding anything. Re-read the OP.

He clearly stated HIS opinion and feelings on the subject here:

I see no pleasure in this and find it unfair for honest geocachers.

 

And then asked for opinions here:

any thoughts ????

 

I just see a discussion of opinions going on as they always do on this topic.

[+Belfrypotters]

When we found a proxy at first I thought it was a bit cheesy, and was disappointed to not see the coin. I considered leaving it in the cache and not logging it. Then I realized it's just another traveler - it's a numbered item that was meant to travel. Whether it's a metal tag with a toy attached, a coin with a number stamped on it, or a laminated photo of a coin with a number on it, they're all the same to me. It's an item that someone placed in a cache and asked me to move to another cache so they could see it travel. So I do.

[+007BigD]

My whole thing is... Make em good!!! I have yet to actually grab a quality proxy, but I know they are out there. Best I have actually grabbed was a coin case with a peice of paper copy of the coin, which hardley resembles a coin.

I also think if a coin is in your collection, then leave it there. Its not lost or stolen...just made a crappy replica of a coin you didnt wanna release!

If it was lost or stolen, I think THEN its a little better to persue a method to keep it traveling, but to just release a proxy so you can keep yours safe is cheesy. Thats just MY opinion and we all have our own way to play.

There is so much you can do with a tracking number to make it more interesting than just a laminated peice of paper. Attach somethin to it, make it "Coin-like"...SOMETHIN!

 

For anyone who really doesnt like em...well dont grab em. Maybe post a note to include the word Proxy or somethin in the name so the next will have a clue that in fact...There is no coin in here, just a proxy.

 

I dunno, but its nothin to get worked up about, its just somebody else playin the game how they wanna and there aint nothin wrong with that except your personal opinion...and they're all different too. Somebody will enjoy movin it, just hope its not somebodys First geocoin to enjoy it!

[+Landsharkz]

I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said, but I do have a question. To those who release fake coins, would you rather find and move fake coins instead of real coins?

 

Excellent point TJ!

 

Coins are made of metal (with a few notable exceptions). We have never moved or discovered a paper copy of a coin and never will. They do nothing for us at all. We want to hold your coin, take it out of it's pouch, touch it, check out the 3D/2D design/creation, admire the creativity and/or humour of the art and then the fine factory workmanship. After we've got fingerprints all over it, we buff it up, refresh it's PVC pouch if it needs a new one, make sure it's got a mission paper printed off and send it on it's way again.

 

We can't do that with paper coins.

[+ThePetersTrio]

I can see both sides to this endless debate - honestly I can. But what I find depressing is that we (myself included) put this time and energy into discussing the merits or detriments of proxy coins when really the issue that needs to be addressed vociferously is the matter of coin theft in the first place.

 

Obviously, if I had the solution to the theft problem, I'd post it. But it just strikes me as sad that those of us who love and release coins (or coin proxies) feel the need to condone or condemn a practice that would be totally un-necessary if it weren't for THIEVES.

 

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to be the victim of theft. I especially don't want to blame anyone for making and releasing a proxy AFTER their beloved coin has been stolen. I want to support people who care for and about coins/icons and the ethics of playing this game we all love called geocaching. That means looking out for each others coins and trying to get them moved as safely as possible. It possibly also means not beating each other up for making a choice to release a replica of a coin. When you see a proxy in a cache, you don't always know the story behind it. Log it, move it, don't log it, don't move it - it is your choice.

 

But let's direct our ire at the real reason for the need (or want) of proxies in the first place. If coins weren't stolen, there would be less need for proxies. And that is just a fact.

 

Now someone I'm sure will want to point out that most coins are simply "lost" not stolen. I understand that this does happen. But I think theft far outweighs loss or ignorance as a reason for coins going missing. At least in our area.

[SCP-173]

On a side note I wonder how many people who complain about fake coins discover coins at events that they never even see. I'm sure there's some.

[+Bhob]

We want to hold your coin, take it out of it's pouch, touch it, check out the 3D/2D design/creation, admire the creativity and/or humour of the art and then the fine factory workmanship.

hmmm . . .

this got me to thinking

 

could it be that the icon hunters (who are just as happy with a copy as the real thing) are much less likely to want to steal a coin

 

but some of the more extreme touchy/feely types just can't help but take it home, all the better/longer to touch/feel

 

present company excluded, of course

[+Tha Saint]

When we found a proxy at first I thought it was a bit cheesy, and was disappointed to not see the coin. I considered leaving it in the cache and not logging it. Then I realized it's just another traveler - it's a numbered item that was meant to travel. Whether it's a metal tag with a toy attached, a coin with a number stamped on it, or a laminated photo of a coin with a number on it, they're all the same to me. It's an item that someone placed in a cache and asked me to move to another cache so they could see it travel. So I do.

 

I totally agree & I think that you've said it best.

On a side note... why do people not mind moving a dog tag with a 50 cent toy attatched to it, but a coin copy offends people?

[+Landsharkz]

We want to hold your coin, take it out of it's pouch, touch it, check out the 3D/2D design/creation, admire the creativity and/or humour of the art and then the fine factory workmanship.

hmmm . . .

 

but some of the more extreme touchy/feely types just can't help but take it home, all the better/longer to touch/feel

 

present company excluded, of course

Well thank goodness for that!

 

Can't say we've ever discovered a coin anywhere that we didn't see/hold/get our grubby paws on

 

Tha Saint.... the 50 cent toy on the dog tag is REAL and it probably belongs to some child who is eagerly watching its travels.