The ethics of changing an adopted cache.

[+Totem Clan]

I recently adopted a group of caches from a caching couple that have moved out of state. The were all good caches and some of the only one in their area, so there was no question that they had to be adopted. As I was go over them all a question came to mind.

 

How much change do you think should be done to an adopted cache or cache page?

 

As for me, all I do to the cache is whatever maintenance I would do to my own. On the cache pages I tend to leave them alone for the most part. I will correct grammatical or spelling errors. Change/fix html tags as needed. Also on one these caches, the page references a photo that is in the gallery. I'm going to put it on the page itself.

Other than little things like that I like to leave the cache as the original owner made it.

 

Just wondering what the rest of you thought.

[+BlueDeuce]

For most of my adopted caches I don't change a thing, include the 'A cache by' name.

 

However, I am responsible for the cache and I will change anything I deem needing to be changed.

[Mushtang]

I would think you'd be free to change whatever you wanted to in order to ensure the cache stays in good shape and continues to be a fun cache. But of course within the mostly accepted practice of not changing it so much that it becomes a different hunt, otherwise it should be archived and a new cache published.

[+gof1]

Mushtang has the answer I agree with. If you are changing the feel of the hide or the page, or moving the container more than a few feet then you have in effect created a new cache and should give it its own page, archiving the old.

[+Totem Clan]

I totally agree. I would do that with any cache adopted or not.

 

I just wondered how much, if any, folks update/changed/fixed cache pages of adopted caches.

[+gof1]

With very few exceptions I'm not much in favor of cache adoptions. My caches will be archived if I find myself unable to maintain them myself. If there is something special about a cache then maybe adopting it is the right thing to do. Is it of historic value? The oldest cache east of the Mississippi? A grandfathered type of cache? Some other standout among caches? Fine, adoption may be the only way to keep that kind of caching experience from disappearing. Keep 'em as close to original as possible. Standard unnatural pile of sticks? Everyday parking lot hide? Let 'em go.

[+wimseyguy]

The only changes I have made to the 3 I have adopted is to add "adopted by wimseyguy" to the placed by data.

[+The Blorenges]

We have only one adopted cache. We took it under our wing because the owners were moving out of the area and we had a soft spot for it as it was our first ever FTF. It's an interesting Multi around a local small town and we've tweaked it in minor ways, as became necessary, when certain information boards changed or virtual waypoints were moved. In essence it is still the same cache and the final has only been moved about 15ft when it became compromised by garden re-landscaping.

 

Having said that, I generally agree with gof1's sentiments below...

 

With very few exceptions I'm not much in favor of cache adoptions. My caches will be archived if I find myself unable to maintain them myself. If there is something special about a cache then maybe adopting it is the right thing to do. Is it of historic value? The oldest cache east of the Mississippi? A grandfathered type of cache? Some other standout among caches? Fine, adoption may be the only way to keep that kind of caching experience from disappearing. Keep 'em as close to original as possible. Standard unnatural pile of sticks? Everyday parking lot hide? Let 'em go.

 

MrsB

[+DarkZen]

I'm a big believer in great cache description pages. I say yes to changing spelling/coding mistakes and yes to adding pics - as long as these remain true to the spirit of the original cache.

[+Star*Hopper]

By all means, as Wimseyguy notes, list the new ownership so folks will know who to contact if needed -- but "...all good caches" speaks for itself.

 

I agree with the philosophy of 'Uncle Rod' Mollise, author of 'Choosing & Using a Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope', who says: "The biggest enemy of good enough is mo' better."

 

~*

[+Knight2000]

For most of my adopted caches I don't change a thing, include the 'A cache by' name.

 

However, I am responsible for the cache and I will change anything I deem needing to be changed.

Ditto.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Knight2000

[Clan Riffster]

I recently adopted several caches from a local legand. After evaluating them, I took what steps I deemed necessary.

 

One, which started life as a regular, had been replaced with a film can. Ground zero, which was originally very near the edge of a dirt road, had changed over the years, so ground zero was quite literally out in the open. I swapped out the film can for an ammo can and moved ground zero back into the woods a bit.

 

One had an ALR which I did away with.

 

One had a ground zero that had turned into a party spot for teens. What was once a lovely spot next to a small lake, turned into a trash pile. This one got archived.

 

The rest remain unchanged.

[GPS-Hermit]

I adopted 3 caches that I would not have normally even hidden. I changed the cache listing to make it more friendly to read. One I completely shut down because the area maintenance was too high and the area collected trash like a magnet. I changed the container size from nothing but a zip lock bag to a lock-n-lock small container sizeable enough for at least some trading. I think anything you do to make it more interesting to the finder is a plus. But maybe not so much about changing the idea or theme of the cache. Keep the original ideas in tact. If you adopted a kid you probably won't go for a sex change or a race transplant. I say honor what started unless it is real bad - under a bridge or something.

 

Improvements in quality are usually welcome.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

IMHO, If a cache is worth adopting it's worth maintaining in the spirit in which it was originally created.

[+Star*Hopper]

... One I completely shut down because the area maintenance was too high and the area collected trash like a magnet.

Sounds like might've been a good spot for a CITO ALR. Bu-u-u-ut............

 

 

I changed the container size from nothing but a zip lock bag to a lock-n-lock small container sizeable enough for at least some trading. I think anything you do to make it more interesting to the finder is a plus. But maybe not so much about changing the idea or theme of the cache. Keep the original ideas in tact. If you adopted a kid you probably won't go for a sex change or a race transplant. I say honor what started unless it is real bad - under a bridge or something.

 

Improvements in quality are usually welcome.

 

Amen to that....wish more were like-minded. In fact, we got bunches around here I think I can set you up with.....if you'll let me re-visit 'em!

~*

[+Hoppingcrow]

Howdy, TC!

 

I have two adopted caches, and on both of them, I have preserved the original cache description with the exception of fixing spelling and blatant grammatical errors. I also kept the original owner's name and added my own after it, and also added a bit of text explaining the adoptions at the head of the page.

 

That said, an issue arose with one of them recently when it was wiped out by a flood. I replaced it with a new container approximately 70 feet from the original site (further up the hillside and out of harm's way). I debated whether to archive the original since the owner has not signed into GC in almost a year and submit an entirely new cache, or whether to keep the original, since I had promised the owner to keep the cache going. I opted to do the latter. I had no choice but to change his hint, but kept the rest of the details as he had written them.

 

In this particular instance, the owner's instructions for approaching the cache are not the best way (it's a 4.5 terrain), so I also had that to deliberate. Again, I have left the cache page as it was originally written. My log for it (written while it was still in his name) explains that there is a better way in. People still persist in trying to approach it from the wrong way and I often wonder if I should add a different set of waypoints. The jury is still out on that part of it. For now, it will stand in the owner's original version, ready for me to hand back to him intact if he ever returns to geocaching.

[Mushtang]

One, which started life as a regular, had been replaced with a film can. Ground zero, which was originally very near the edge of a dirt road, had changed over the years, so ground zero was quite literally out in the open. I swapped out the film can for an ammo can and moved ground zero back into the woods a bit.

 

One had an ALR which I did away with.

Both of these sound to me like cases where you should have archived and hidden a new one.

[+hukilaulau]

One, which started life as a regular, had been replaced with a film can. Ground zero, which was originally very near the edge of a dirt road, had changed over the years, so ground zero was quite literally out in the open. I swapped out the film can for an ammo can and moved ground zero back into the woods a bit.

 

One had an ALR which I did away with.

Both of these sound to me like cases where you should have archived and hidden a new one.

I agree with this. Unless there's something REALLY special about the cache, just archive it and let someone else have a try at the spot.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

I recently adopted a group of caches from a caching couple that have moved out of state. The were all good caches and some of the only one in their area, so there was no question that they had to be adopted. As I was go over them all a question came to mind.

 

How much change do you think should be done to an adopted cache or cache page?

 

As for me, all I do to the cache is whatever maintenance I would do to my own. On the cache pages I tend to leave them alone for the most part. I will correct grammatical or spelling errors. Change/fix html tags as needed. Also on one these caches, the page references a photo that is in the gallery. I'm going to put it on the page itself.

Other than little things like that I like to leave the cache as the original owner made it.

 

Just wondering what the rest of you thought.

 

Change whatever you want to. They are your caches now except if you agreed to not change them!

[+paleolith]

I've adopted a few -- they were old caches, from 2003 or before. I treated them as I would a cache of my own that I was maintaining -- update and improve as needed, but don't change for the sake of change. (Don't look for them on my profile, as I have passed them on to others.) However, these hadn't been maintained in a while, so I did a good bit of catch-up. Three required new hiding spots -- two because they had been muggled repeatedly (one more than the other), and one because the hiding spot had burned -- but I moved then as little as possible, in one case not even changing the coordinates. These were all changes I'd have made myself during normal maintenance. In some cases I added photos to the description. I tried to clean up the descriptions, but kept as much of the original wording as I could. Sometime I could keep most of it; in the case of the fried one, I had to change a lot just due to the change of conditions. I added some instructions when I felt that was needed to avoid undesirable experiences. I also had to make two of them smaller, one due to muggling and one because there just was no longer a place to hide a regular size.

 

Some may say that I changed the conditions and should have archived them, or allowed them to be archived. I don't agree; I think that the experience of finding the caches is basically unchanged. In all cases, the hike and the location were the main part of the experience. These were not clever hides or special containers, just special places.

 

Edward

[Clan Riffster]

One, which started life as a regular, had been replaced with a film can. Ground zero, which was originally very near the edge of a dirt road, had changed over the years, so ground zero was quite literally out in the open. I swapped out the film can for an ammo can and moved ground zero back into the woods a bit.

 

One had an ALR which I did away with.

Both of these sound to me like cases where you should have archived and hidden a new one.

Perhaps.

On the first one, the owner asked me to try and keep it alive, as it's a pretty old cache. Lots of history there. My actions actually returned it to its original form. In reading the logs, I think the film can evolution was from someone who couldn't stand to get a DNF. Apparently when the original ammo can went missing, they threw down whatever they had handy. Not what I'd recommend, but at that point, it wasn't my cache. I couldn't keep it at the posted coords, which were at an intersection of two woods roads, because the edge of the roadway shifted a bit. Originally, it was just off the roadway. Now it's again, just off the roadway. Anywho, the previous owner is a good friend, and I honored his wishes.

 

The second one still sits in the same spot. It was hidden way before ALRs were shifted to the mystery catagory, so it was listed as a traditional. The ALR was to E-mail several answers to questions about the site. I reworded this a bit to get rid of the mandatory E-mail, while maintaining the educational aspect of the hide. Now, even with the new guideline, it is still a traditional.

 

I'm happy with them as they are, so I'm not ready to archive them even if common wisdom suggests that as a proper course of action under those circumstances.

 

Is all this naught but a bunch of justification on my end? Yeah, it could be. But I'm OK with that for now.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Clan Riffster

[+Isonzo Karst]

list the new ownership so folks will know who to contact if needed

 

It isn't necessary to add "adopted by" or change the ownership in any way. The link of the owner's name at the top of the listing will take a cacher back to the current owner's profile, regardless of whose name is there.

 

I prefer to change adopted caches as little as possible. On the other hand, once they're mine, I maintain them as I would my own. Altering the cache description as needed, shifting the hide position slightly if needed, changing out containers.

 

I adopted a rather large group of caches from a local cacher who was ill and has since died. I'll likely archive some of them in a bit. I suspect that had he continued in good health, he would have thinned that group himself. They were placed early in his caching career, in that first rush of great enthusiasm for all things geocache.

[+gof1]

Justification? Perhaps, but a good demonstration of why these thing need to be looked at on a case by case basis. And why the answer to this kind of question is so often about the "feel" of the cache and not the exact placement. It is, after all, about the experience, the journey if you will, right?

[+gof1]

Adding "adopted by" helps to prevent confusion.

[+Sarg863]

I have several adopted caches. I try to do very little in the way of changes but will change whatever I want to change.

[+Kit Fox]

I'm a big believer in great cache description pages. I say yes to changing spelling/coding mistakes and yes to adding pics - as long as these remain true to the spirit of the original cache.

 

This is what I did with the only cache that I've adopted. I fixed the HMTL, then added a more detail beneath a horizontal rule.

 

Big Horn Mine & Stamp Mill

[+Headhardhat]

Over the past year I have adopted over 30 geocaches. I went to each and every one and did maint on about ten of them. I swapped log books for the ones that needed it and replaced or swapped ones that needed it. The cache page remained the same except for the (adopted by HeadHardHat) in the op section.

 

Once you own the geocache you own it. There is no rule that says you can't change it to your ways. The original op bestowed it to you. It's yours.

 

-HHH

Edited April 18, 2009 by Headhardhat

[+Harry Dolphin]

I was once offered a cache for adoption. It was a nice, old cache. I decided that it was untenable in its current location, and moving it would change it compleely. So, unfortunately, it was archived.

[+Wooden Cyclist]

There is a disabled cache near the place that employs me. The last few Geocacher's logs show that they think it has been muggled. The owner has not been able to check on it in over 3 months. I emailed him to see if he wanted me to check on it for him. He replied that he no longer gets to that part of town and would appricieate it if I were to check on it. He also offered to let me adopt it.

 

 

The location is a large city park that currently has no other caches listed. There almost no caches in that part of town and the park is across the street from our office. The problem is that the spot that the cache had been hidden has seen some work by city employees. Most of the bushes and low tree branches have been removed along the creek where the cache was hidden.

 

 

After reading the posts in this topic I think it would be best to ask the owner to archive the cache and place a couple of new ones in the park.

[GOF and Bacall]

Sometimes you just gotta pull the plug.

[+OldNickCov]

I recently adopted a group of caches from a caching couple that have moved out of state. The were all good caches and some of the only one in their area, so there was no question that they had to be adopted. As I was go over them all a question came to mind.

 

How much change do you think should be done to an adopted cache or cache page?

 

I have two adopted caches.

 

One was placed by a well-known cacher, who died some time back. It had been adopted by some otehr cachers, who later moved out of the area. Its located on a historic site, and was located with permission of the site rangers.

 

That one, I have changed as little as possible. I changed the damamged box for as similar a box as possible, and replaced a damp logbook, with a new one, Otherwise I have left it unchanged, under its obvious heap of stick-o-flage.

 

The other was placed by an overseas visitor on holiday, at a lovely spot, and put up for adoption before it had even been reviewed. When I offered to adopt it, I went and looked for it, and found that it was a piece of hotel notepaper, and a pencil, in a half-litre drinks bottle, in a bush by the side of the (clearly-signed from outside) private road leading up to the hotel.

 

In that case I found another location in the same very attractive river valley, found a more suitable container, and supplied a proper log book. In agreement with the reviewer, we relocated the cache, but kept the name, and the sentiments expressed by the original setter intact.

 

As usual, there's no simple answer that fits all circumstances, but I think we got these right in both cases.