Delorme PN-40

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Since it was asked of me, I trust it won't later be used as a "gotcha" to say that I had been steering the thread to other units.

 

I'm considering challenging myself by buying the pn-40 and seeing how it stacks up to my needs.

I won't gotcha, particularly since I posed the question.

 

I would suggest, however, in pursuit of your own hands-on evaluation, walk one out of REI as you will be able to walk it right back in for full refund within 30 days if not satisfied, bricked or unbricked.

 

Then to get you started:

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/

 

And don't be intimidated by Topo USA 7.0. You won't even need to install it to get you PN-40 up and running for out of the box paperless geocaching. The lastest enhancements allow Topo 7 to be bypassed for downloading cache descriptions and uploading Field Notes after caching.

[+user13371]

...about the battery-brick thing...

FWIW, "the battery brick" thing has been mis-stated here.

 

You won't 'brick" your PN-40 by putting in the batteries the wrong way. I know, I accidentally "tested" that myself early on. And recently tested it on purpose, just to prove a point. No problem.

 

Some (small?) number of users have had problems where the PN-40 failed to power up. I think this is a QC problem on a small number of units rather than a universal problem. DeLorme acknowledged it themselves and is repairing/replacing unit that have the problem. At one time they made the suggestion "check the batteries are in the right way" and that may be how the whole "brick if the batteries are in backwards" myth got started.

 

I also think the PN-40's normal start-up sequence could confuse new users. You have to hold the power button for a second or two -- until you see the DeLorme splash screen. A quick tap on the power key won't do it, and this may contribute to some folks thinking their PN-40 is flakey.

Edited April 20, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Rockin Roddy]

...about the battery-brick thing...

FWIW, "the battery brick" thing has been mis-stated here.

 

You won't 'brick" your PN-40 by putting in the batteries the wrong way. I know, I accidentally "tested" that myself early on. And recently tested it on purpose, just to prove a point. No problem.

 

Some (small?) number of users have had problems where the PN-40 failed to power up. I think this is a QC problem on a small number of units rather than a universal problem. DeLorme acknowledged it themselves and is repairing/replacing unit that have the problem. At one time they made the suggestion "check the batteries are in the right way" and that may be how the whole "brick if the batteries are in backwards" myth got started.

 

I also think the PN-40's normal start-up sequence could confuse new users. You have to hold the power button for a second or two -- until you see the DeLorme splash screen. A quick tap on the power key won't do it, and this may contribute to some folks thinking their PN-40 is flakey.

 

Seems Lee has the right call on this. I had read the thread in the DeLorme forums some time back when researching for the purchase and never checked back on it...it's now 10 pages and shows a bit of a differing opinion on the subject!

[stevensj2]

Just ordered a pn-40

 

Hopefully it arrives in time for me to do a lot of side-by-sides with the Garmin Colorado, but in any case, I plan to put the DeLorme through the paces.

 

Its one thing to say it won't fit my needs, finding out for sure is another. And I look forward to all the good things I've read and seen demonstrated.

 

I'll post some feedback once I've had it in the field for several days.

[+TotemLake]

Looking forward to seeing your reaction.

[+Searching_ut]

To the OP, sorry if you feel we got off topic. Describing the PN-40 as exceptionally good or bad isn’t easy. As I’ve mentioned, my relationship with mine is sort of love/hate. That said, I have a collection of GPS units that I use for different things at different time, which should indicate that I don‘t find any of them to be perfect. I leave my street pilots and Nuvi in my vehicles at all times, and they are fantastic units for vehicle navigation. My most used GPS is my Garmin forerunner 305, of which the wife and I both have to use primarily as exercise recording and motivational devices. The wife never uses the “little Man” on the thing, but I have an almost obsession with not letting the little dude beat me.

 

Back to the PN-40, I’ve relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device. That said, it’s one of the things I use GPS the least for For all other outdoor use, I’ll stick to the VistaC. Long battery life, great track recording, wonderfully rugged, and I trust it.

 

Regarding those people aquiring new PN-40 units, A couple of hints a couple of hints for when you get it. Hold the power button until the unit not only comes one, but the splash screen flashes and comes back on. Otherwise you might have to play with it to get it back on. Also, be advised that if you run the unit until the batteries run out, you might have to hold the power button for a few seconds with the batteries out, then install the new ones to get it to power up (Mines only done that once). Also, with the latest beta software, make sure you read the dialog boxes when you go to do something with the unit. For instance, the fist time you go to save an averaged waypoint, I’ve found mine then asks if I really want to “Delete” the waypoint. Say no, go back to save, then it does it right. You’ll find a couple of other glitches like that, but all in all, the beta software seems to be a lot better than the other stuff to me.

[+user13371]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

Yeah, what he said.

 

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

 

As for that love/hate thing -- yup, there are some things about this GPS that make it unsuitable for my everyday carry. But I've hashed those out in other threads

[bimbert84]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

 

-- Rob

[+Rockin Roddy]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

 

-- Rob

 

How much are the maps?

 

I bought mine with the realization I could buy ANY unit (money was no matter), I still thought (and do now) that I bought the best unit to fit my needs...which is caching!!

[+Maingray]

 

How much are the maps?

 

I bought mine with the realization I could buy ANY unit (money was no matter), I still thought (and do now) that I bought the best unit to fit my needs...which is caching!!

 

..depends what maps you require. There are huge numbers of free topo based maps for the garmin units for USA and most other regions of the world now, easily made nowadays. Premium solutions for USA road (routable) /POI data / topo / marine and for almost every other country is now offered. If you want diverse and international maps Garmin is still the safest bet. Aerial imagery is your bag, PN-40 is the ruler.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

How much are the maps?

 

I bought mine with the realization I could buy ANY unit (money was no matter), I still thought (and do now) that I bought the best unit to fit my needs...which is caching!!

 

..depends what maps you require. There are huge numbers of free topo based maps for the garmin units for USA and most other regions of the world now, easily made nowadays. Premium solutions for USA road (routable) /POI data / topo / marine and for almost every other country is now offered. If you want diverse and international maps Garmin is still the safest bet. Aerial imagery is your bag, PN-40 is the ruler.

 

OK, how simple is it to get and load these maps? Ids the first time user or even a non-techy person like myself going to be able to just load and go or will there be a lot to learn in order to use these maps?

[+Maingray]

Easy-peasy. They are nearly all pre-packaged with installers which will automagically load into Mapsource (think Topo 7, but for simpletons). Select the regions you want transferred, connect GPS, transfer.

 

In Delorme speak, they are all pre-cut a la the DVDs you get with the PN-40.

 

one of the free sites: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/country/all

Edited April 21, 2009 by Maingray

[+Rockin Roddy]

Easy-peasy. They are nearly all pre-packaged with installers which will automagically load into Mapsource (think Topo 7, but for simpletons). Select the regions you want transferred, connect GPS, transfer.

 

In Delorme speak, they are all pre-cut a la the DVDs you get with the PN-40.

 

one of the free sites: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/country/all

 

OK, and do you think the common user is going to know how to find them, where to find them and know that they even exist? Garmin won't be advertising this, will they? I just learned about them about a year ago, so I'd been around the block a bit...and I only learned of them in these forums, which most users don't visit!

Edited April 21, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[bimbert84]

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

Let me clarify.

 

How much are the maps?

Looks like the maps I need are free: http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/154/

 

Aerial imagery is your bag, PN-40 is the ruler.

I really have no need for aerial imagery. I don't need streets, either. Topo would be enough.

 

-- Rob

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

I bought mine with the realization I could buy ANY unit (money was no matter), I still thought (and do now) that I bought the best unit to fit my needs...which is caching!!

 

OK, I'll clarify my opinion as well.

[+Maingray]

 

 

OK, and do you think the common user is going to know how to find them, where to find them and know that they even exist? Garmin won't be advertising this, will they? I just learned about them about a year ago, so I'd been around the block a bit...and I only learned of them in these forums, which most users don't visit!

 

uh.. Google.com

 

"garmin maps"

 

 

What could garmin do? Like the delorme mapping data, it's all public domain.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

 

OK, and do you think the common user is going to know how to find them, where to find them and know that they even exist? Garmin won't be advertising this, will they? I just learned about them about a year ago, so I'd been around the block a bit...and I only learned of them in these forums, which most users don't visit!

 

uh.. Google.com

 

"garmin maps"

 

 

What could garmin do? Like the delorme mapping data, it's all public domain.

 

I'm just pointing out that these maps aren't known about by everyone, most buyers also need to buy maps! There are some who would find them by accident or with a little help from in here or whatever, but the majority of purchasers I know bought their maps! Most first time buyers don't visit here and wouldn't even have a clue maps can be found. Most older people aren't tech savvy and won't know how to find them (google what???), those same people might also not want to even try to download (thinking of my dad here and how he'd react...). The majority of GPS users either buy their maps or don't have maps.

 

I didn't say Garmin could do anything about them, I said they surely won't advertise they exist!

Edited April 21, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Maingray]

I know maaaany cachers with garmin units who use these free maps, rather than buy anything extra. These maps work on any older mapping-compatible Garmin unit. Plenty good for caching.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

I really have no need for aerial imagery. I don't need streets, either. Topo would be enough.

 

-- Rob

Exactly my thoughts when I bought a DeLorme PN-20.

However, now that aerial imagery is affordably available, I never leave home without it.

For geocaching (which is what is hosting use here), aerial imagery is not a make or break requirement.

It has just become my personal preference and YMMV.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I know maaaany cachers with garmin units who use these free maps, rather than buy anything extra. These maps work on any older mapping-compatible Garmin unit. Plenty good for caching.

 

I'm willing to bet the majority of any GPS unit either buys maps or don't have any. Again, most people have no clue about these free maps! I'd also be willing to bet MOST first time buyers will buy maps too, since they have no knowledge of free maps. I'd even venture to guess that many would rather buy their maps than take a chance on a map which could also contain a virus or something (and if you say this is impossible, many out there, like myself, don't know this and are leary of downloads).

 

To prove my point, how often do you see people asking about map software, which maps to buy etc??

Edited April 21, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Tigerz]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made, yet you provide very little data in support of your position. Maingray shared there are free maps for DeLorme GPSr units that meet many needs. Where can I download the same for my PN-40 ... assuming I can get it to turn on?

[+Rockin Roddy]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made, yet you provide very little data in support of your position. Maingray shared there are free maps for DeLorme GPSr units that meet many needs. Where can I download the same for my PN-40 ... assuming I can get it to turn on?

 

It's a shame you DeLorme haters try to make it look like every discussion is an argument! Do you see an argument here? Maybe your eyes are jaded from your bad experience, but I see this as a good discussion! Those free maps aren't known about by the majority, that is my point. Where can you download maps for the PN-40? X-map is a good start!

[+Maingray]

 

I'm willing to bet the majority of any GPS unit either buys maps or don't have any. Again, most people have no clue about these free maps! I'd also be willing to bet MOST first time buyers will buy maps too, since they have no knowledge of free maps. I'd even venture to guess that many would rather buy their maps than take a chance on a map which could also contain a virus or something (and if you say this is impossible, many out there, like myself, don't know this and are leary of downloads).

 

To prove my point, how often do you see people asking about map software, which maps to buy etc??

 

Darn, way to belabor a point. I cache with many many people from all over, the majority (95%?) of which have Garmins (GPSMAPs / Etrexes) and we usually compare experiences with maps etc. All I can offer is my experiences with them. Sorry. Most cachers are tech savvy to an extent and know how to google or ask people.

 

(And contrary to to other posts, most people are not paperless on their GPS unit either... PDAs / phones still reign supreme with said Etrexes and 60/76 units. I cannot see that changing for a while either.)

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

To prove my point, how often do you see people asking about map software, which maps to buy etc??

 

Darn, way to belabor a point. I cache with many many people from all over, the majority (95%?) of which have Garmins (GPSMAPs / Etrexes) and we usually compare experiences with maps etc. All I can offer is my experiences with them. Sorry. Most cachers are tech savvy to an extent and know how to google or ask people.

 

(And contrary to to other posts, most people are not paperless on their GPS unit either... PDAs / phones still reign supreme with said Etrexes and 60/76 units. I cannot see that changing for a while either.)

 

I too cache with MANY MANY people, I am the SE RVP for MiGO and I do get around! There's no need to get defensive, but I see that my point was indeed made! And, why the change of the discussion? Where did the paperless thing come into a maps discussion?? How does the paperless shot work into the discussion we're having, or are you merely changing the subject?

 

I can't think of a single person I know (and we have a majority of Garmin users here too...it was the only unit worth owning at one time afterall) who didn't buy their maps...not one! And, guess what, many of those people are techy, but I'm guessing looking for free maps never even crossed their minds? And, I stand by my assessment that there's a good amount of people out there who wouldn't even know to do a google, I'll happily admit I didn't until you said to!

 

Could it be that your friends (the many many you have) mainly found out about the free maps from you or through word of mouth?? I'll do a nice little experiment for our Lazy Hayes Days event, I will ask everyone if they know about these maps...it'll be very interesting to find out the answer!

[+Maingray]

If it's really that much of a big deal to you, go figure it out. I just replied to your questions.

 

I would also hazard a guess that most people who geocache use geocaching.com and know how to use Google or be able to figure out how to verbalize that question to other cachers.

 

'til the next PN-40 thread that goes silly, I bid you adieu.

[+Rockin Roddy]

If it's really that much of a big deal to you, go figure it out. I just replied to your questions.

 

I would also hazard a guess that most people who geocache use geocaching.com and know how to use Google or be able to figure out how to verbalize that question to other cachers.

 

'til the next PN-40 thread that goes silly, I bid you adieu.

 

Like I said, the proof is the fact that MOST (as in a majority) BUY their maps....do you deny this? Goes silly?? Is that your next attempt at avoiding the simple and to the point question I asked?? I see this as a reasonable line of questions, the person asked about the unit, I asked about price of maps and we were brought down this path...like I said, if you don't have the answer, you can always say so.

 

Making it look like I am asking unreasonable questions is a pure dodge!

[stevensj2]

In my opinion, it is hard to say whether or not most buy additional maps. I'd assume they do, because it is likely someone without much knowledge would ask the salesmen and he'd have them buying everything under the sun.

 

That being said, whether many or a few take advantage of it, free maps for Garmin units do exist and can be made without too much effort. That's a huge plus.

 

I saw the argument made against the free maps on the point the DeLorme has XMap. This isn't a strong comparison, as XMap is certainly not free, and even a one time fee of $100 (at discount) is infinitely more expensive than free.

 

As far as maps go, you're going to spend money with either unit - most of us have purchased maps and/or software from either (or both) companies.

 

From a sideline perspective, Garmin has the advantage here because no matter how common it is, it is at least possible to buy only the unit and add free maps as you wish, or create your own.

 

DeLorme could make this a moot point buy opening up their units to user-made maps (without needing proprietary software, ie XMap), but that isn't how it currently stands.

 

For me, its a tough decision to call, so I'll have to try both units to see which I prefer, and I can't wait to make some comparisons. Functionality and repeatable accuracy are more important to me than maps (cartographers can make their own, after all ).

 

Edit: Rockin Roddy - I notice a lot of your finds are near where I'm from. We're almost neighbors!

Edited April 21, 2009 by stevensj2

[+Rockin Roddy]

In my opinion, it is hard to say whether or not most buy additional maps. I'd assume they do, because it is likely someone without much knowledge would ask the salesmen and he'd have them buying everything under the sun.

 

That being said, whether many or a few take advantage of it, free maps for Garmin units do exist and can be made without too much effort. That's a huge plus.

 

I saw the argument made against the free maps on the point the DeLorme has XMap. This isn't a strong comparison, as XMap is certainly not free, and even a one time fee of $100 (at discount) is infinitely more expensive than free.

 

As far as maps go, you're going to spend money with either unit - most of us have purchased maps and/or software from either (or both) companies.

 

From a sideline perspective, Garmin has the advantage here because no matter how common it is, it is at least possible to buy only the unit and add free maps as you wish, or create your own.

 

DeLorme could make this a moot point buy opening up their units to user-made maps (without needing proprietary software, ie XMap), but that isn't how it currently stands.

 

For me, its a tough decision to call, so I'll have to try both units to see which I prefer, and I can't wait to make some comparisons. Functionality and repeatable accuracy are more important to me than maps (cartographers can make their own, after all ).

 

Edit: Rockin Roddy - I notice a lot of your finds are near where I'm from. We're almost neighbors!

 

I would only say that those free maps only help those who know about them, that's been my point all along. I never said anything about this being a side wins deal, I am only pointing out the facts, wich are the majority have no idea about the free maps!

 

The point about X-map, that was merely to point out it can be done since Tigerz asked!!

 

Where are your friends from, and if you're as close as them, when are we going after a beer???

[logansackett]

Being new to geocaching and living close to a city the most important feature to me seems like the ability to see street detail to be able to find a parking spot to search for the cache. I cached once with someone who had the colorado which was very slick but I went with the pn-20 because on paper it had the same capabilities to map street level for alot less. I understand it will probabbly be alot slower and lack a few other things but I can live with that. My question is...am i right in thinking street level is that important? To me it would be very difficult to search for a cache in a suburb with just a base map.

 

In my opinion, it is hard to say whether or not most buy additional maps. I'd assume they do, because it is likely someone without much knowledge would ask the salesmen and he'd have them buying everything under the sun.

 

That being said, whether many or a few take advantage of it, free maps for Garmin units do exist and can be made without too much effort. That's a huge plus.

 

I saw the argument made against the free maps on the point the DeLorme has XMap. This isn't a strong comparison, as XMap is certainly not free, and even a one time fee of $100 (at discount) is infinitely more expensive than free.

 

As far as maps go, you're going to spend money with either unit - most of us have purchased maps and/or software from either (or both) companies.

 

From a sideline perspective, Garmin has the advantage here because no matter how common it is, it is at least possible to buy only the unit and add free maps as you wish, or create your own.

 

DeLorme could make this a moot point buy opening up their units to user-made maps (without needing proprietary software, ie XMap), but that isn't how it currently stands.

 

For me, its a tough decision to call, so I'll have to try both units to see which I prefer, and I can't wait to make some comparisons. Functionality and repeatable accuracy are more important to me than maps (cartographers can make their own, after all ).

 

Edit: Rockin Roddy - I notice a lot of your finds are near where I'm from. We're almost neighbors!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Being new to geocaching and living close to a city the most important feature to me seems like the ability to see street detail to be able to find a parking spot to search for the cache. I cached once with someone who had the colorado which was very slick but I went with the pn-20 because on paper it had the same capabilities to map street level for alot less. I understand it will probabbly be alot slower and lack a few other things but I can live with that. My question is...am i right in thinking street level is that important? To me it would be very difficult to search for a cache in a suburb with just a base map.

My preference is to go geocaching with the aerial photo imagery that I've downloaded from DeLorme as a subscriber to their annual $29.95 subscription service for unlimited downloads. With a few button clicks I can turn "Hybrid" maps ON or OFF. When ON, the Topo 7 street grid is superimposed on the aerial image. In so doing, it's not a question of one or the other, but.......

[stevensj2]

 

I would only say that those free maps only help those who know about them, that's been my point all along. I never said anything about this being a side wins deal, I am only pointing out the facts, wich are the majority have no idea about the free maps!

 

The point about X-map, that was merely to point out it can be done since Tigerz asked!!

 

Where are your friends from, and if you're as close as them, when are we going after a beer???

 

I'm from the Stockbridge area, and have so far downloaded just a few cache locations around there.

 

Had a DNF the other day, so I will try again with the pn-40 soon

Edited April 21, 2009 by stevensj2

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

I would only say that those free maps only help those who know about them, that's been my point all along. I never said anything about this being a side wins deal, I am only pointing out the facts, wich are the majority have no idea about the free maps!

 

The point about X-map, that was merely to point out it can be done since Tigerz asked!!

 

Where are your friends from, and if you're as close as them, when are we going after a beer???

 

I'm from the Stockbridge area, and have so far downloaded just a few cache locations around there.

 

Had a DNF the other day, so I will try again with the pn-40 soon

 

Small world! We'll have to get together and cache some time!!

[+Tigerz]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made, yet you provide very little data in support of your position. Maingray shared there are free maps for DeLorme GPSr units that meet many needs. Where can I download the same for my PN-40 ... assuming I can get it to turn on?

It's a shame you DeLorme haters try to make it look like every discussion is an argument! Do you see an argument here? Maybe your eyes are jaded from your bad experience, but I see this as a good discussion! Those free maps aren't known about by the majority, that is my point. Where can you download maps for the PN-40? X-map is a good start!

 

I never referred to myself as a DeLorme hater. I certainly don't appreciate the implication. I call it like I see it ... truthfully and honestly in as simple a language as I can. I bought a PN-40 because I thought it had potential. It still does, but right now has some significant shortcomings (again power lockups, still won't routinely acquire WAAS, routing lockups, corrupt cache pages, and kludges to get more than one cache in it). As it is now, it's not suitable for routine, much less serious, geocaching.

 

And just a small detail ... free maps including everything you need to put them on your Garmin GPSr are ... ummm ... free. DeLorme's XMap "starts" at $750. Now one more time ... where can I get free maps for the PN-40?

 

As for quality, many think the free maps from ibycus are the most detailed/current around. I have them on all 3 of my Etrex Vistas and they work just fine.

[+Searching_ut]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

 

-- Rob

 

Why would you pay that much when you can pick up Colorado 300 for $250 at Costco.com, and that price includes the shipping. Myself I can't imagine using a touch screen unit in the field. I've been debating picking one up for awhile now, but haven't figured out how to justify the purchase with the wife. I just picked up a new Nuvi, the PN-40, and a new image stabalized telephoto lens along with a new set of binoculars. Any ideas on how to say I just can't live without???

Edited April 21, 2009 by Searching_ut

[+Rockin Roddy]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made, yet you provide very little data in support of your position. Maingray shared there are free maps for DeLorme GPSr units that meet many needs. Where can I download the same for my PN-40 ... assuming I can get it to turn on?

It's a shame you DeLorme haters try to make it look like every discussion is an argument! Do you see an argument here? Maybe your eyes are jaded from your bad experience, but I see this as a good discussion! Those free maps aren't known about by the majority, that is my point. Where can you download maps for the PN-40? X-map is a good start!

 

I never referred to myself as a DeLorme hater. I certainly don't appreciate the implication. I call it like I see it ... truthfully and honestly in as simple a language as I can. I bought a PN-40 because I thought it had potential. It still does, but right now has some significant shortcomings (again power lockups, still won't routinely acquire WAAS, routing lockups, corrupt cache pages, and kludges to get more than one cache in it). As it is now, it's not suitable for routine, much less serious, geocaching.

 

And just a small detail ... free maps including everything you need to put them on your Garmin GPSr are ... ummm ... free. DeLorme's XMap "starts" at $750. Now one more time ... where can I get free maps for the PN-40?

 

As for quality, many think the free maps from ibycus are the most detailed/current around. I have them on all 3 of my Etrex Vistas and they work just fine.

 

You refer to us as lovers for sticking up for the units we use, you bag DeLorme and yet you don't like the implication you're a hater...you've made it quite clear several times, I too call it like I see it. I am sorry you had your troubles, it is too bad and I'm sorry DeLorme didn't take you up on your offer, but my unit is more than capable of serious geocaching right now! I don't know if it was the older units, QC, both or whatever, but mine is SWEET! My friend bought one right after seeing mine in action and she has had a problem with her cord, no problems with the unit, she too is very happy! DeLorme has replaced the cord too, making her even more happy! And talk about WAAS, locked within 5 minutes today, inside my Jeep and with a heavy downpour going on outside! I was impressed! I think it's been getting better and better with each use! I did see a corrupt page one time, but just one time, it seemed odd.

 

Xmap, unless I'm looking at the wrong deal, is $100 if you own a DeLorme...are you saying the DeLorme plus the Xmap package? I never said it was free, I merely answered your question of how to get maps downloaded.

[+Rockin Roddy]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

 

-- Rob

 

Why would you pay that much when you can pick up Colorado 300 for $250 at Costco.com, and that price includes the shipping. Myself I can't imagine using a touch screen unit in the field. I've been debating picking one up for awhile now, but haven't figured out how to justify the purchase with the wife. I just picked up a new Nuvi, the PN-40, and a new image stabalized telephoto lens along with a new set of binoculars. Any ideas on how to say I just can't live without???

 

You could always tell her you lost one and need to get another to go find it!

 

Now, let me get this clear before I do something I regret...I could buy the CO 300 for $250 and wouldn't need to buy any maps for it? Is it really easy to load maps to it?? I might want to give this a try myself, just to see what I'm missing!

Edited April 21, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+TotemLake]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made,

You could refrain from this kind of statement. But as long as you're going to hide behind the "you call it like you see it," don't be surprised when you receive the same.

 

Now, as for arguing with every point... From my perspective, and it is only mine I'm stating here, I can only shake my head at the do as I say and not as I do mentality.

 

That being said...

 

It comes down to what the individual wants and what they are willing to do to get it. Garmin users are happy to go after the free programs providing they know about them.

 

DeLorme provides an alternative to the word of mouth effort. The PN series was designed with this concept in mind. Paying for public domain data at $30 per year? Hardly. Paying for upkeep of the equipment and storage of the data to be converted on the fly and readied for download to Topo for the PN owner? It's a mere pittance to pay. Yes the PN-40 is in growth pains. Yes there are some QC issues. Yes download speeds of large data could be better, but what do you want for $30 per year?

 

Bottom line that appears before me with all this, if it doesn't walk, quack and smell like a Garmin... it won't meet certain user's criteria - period. I can plan around the limitations and I'm happy with it. You don't have to be and I don't place any expectations for it but why trash those when they are happy with it with denegrative statements like the way yours started and then complain when it comes back at you?

 

I think what needs to eventually happen is folks decide they agree to disagree. Once a mind is made up, rehashing the same point (on either side) is useless.

 

I suggest everybody take a breather and remember it's just a device and it's involving a game we all enjoy.

[+Pax42]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made, yet you provide very little data in support of your position. Maingray shared there are free maps for DeLorme GPSr units that meet many needs. Where can I download the same for my PN-40 ... assuming I can get it to turn on?

It's a shame you DeLorme haters try to make it look like every discussion is an argument! Do you see an argument here? Maybe your eyes are jaded from your bad experience, but I see this as a good discussion! Those free maps aren't known about by the majority, that is my point. Where can you download maps for the PN-40? X-map is a good start!

 

I never referred to myself as a DeLorme hater. I certainly don't appreciate the implication. I call it like I see it ... truthfully and honestly in as simple a language as I can. I bought a PN-40 because I thought it had potential. It still does, but right now has some significant shortcomings (again power lockups, still won't routinely acquire WAAS, routing lockups, corrupt cache pages, and kludges to get more than one cache in it). As it is now, it's not suitable for routine, much less serious, geocaching.

 

And just a small detail ... free maps including everything you need to put them on your Garmin GPSr are ... ummm ... free. DeLorme's XMap "starts" at $750. Now one more time ... where can I get free maps for the PN-40?

 

As for quality, many think the free maps from ibycus are the most detailed/current around. I have them on all 3 of my Etrex Vistas and they work just fine.

 

Ok, I hate to get involved in these constant "Which is better?" debates but I can only bite my tongue so long (or is it "bite my fingers" since I'm typing?).

 

It has been asked why the PN-40 owners seem defensive. Perhaps it's partly due to the fact that a couple of posters continue to post inaccurate and misleading information about the 40.

 

Even though it's already been pointed out that your earlier statement of "kludges" being needed to load more than one cache was wrong, you bring it up again. One more time: GPX Pocket queries can be loaded to the PN-40 using Topo 7. Do the kludges provide enhanced functionality; yes but they are NOT required.

 

As to the "starting" price you mentioned for Xmap, COME ON! No one has ever said Xmap 6 GIS was neccessary which is what you are quoting. Xmap 6 Pro is what has been recommended on these forums. It's retail price is $200 but can be purchased by PN-20 and 40 owners for $100. I find it hard to believe you were not aware of that.

[+Pax42]

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made,

You could refrain from this kind of statement. But as long as you're going to hide behind the "you call it like you see it," don't be surprised when you receive the same.

 

Now, as for arguing with every point... From my perspective, and it is only mine I'm stating here, I can only shake my head at the do as I say and not as I do mentality.

 

That being said...

 

It comes down to what the individual wants and what they are willing to do to get it. Garmin users are happy to go after the free programs providing they know about them.

 

DeLorme provides an alternative to the word of mouth effort. The PN series was designed with this concept in mind. Paying for public domain data at $30 per year? Hardly. Paying for upkeep of the equipment and storage of the data to be converted on the fly and readied for download to Topo for the PN owner? It's a mere pittance to pay. Yes the PN-40 is in growth pains. Yes there are some QC issues. Yes download speeds of large data could be better, but what do you want for $30 per year?

 

Bottom line that appears before me with all this, if it doesn't walk, quack and smell like a Garmin... it won't meet certain user's criteria - period. I can plan around the limitations and I'm happy with it. You don't have to be and I don't place any expectations for it but why trash those when they are happy with it with denegrative statements like the way yours started and then complain when it comes back at you?

 

I think what needs to eventually happen is folks decide they agree to disagree. Once a mind is made up, rehashing the same point (on either side) is useless.

 

I suggest everybody take a breather and remember it's just a device and it's involving a game we all enjoy.

 

You're right TotemLake. Unfortunately I submitted my rant the same time you submitted your more suitable comment.

 

No more rants from me. I like my PN-40. I like my 60csx. I like my Nuvi. I hope everyone else finds the GPSr they're happy with.

[logansackett]

The Colorado for $250 at costco is tempting. Are there free street maps for the Colorado and anyone have screen shots of what the free ones would look like?

 

 

It's a shame you PN-40 fans have to argue with every point made,

You could refrain from this kind of statement. But as long as you're going to hide behind the "you call it like you see it," don't be surprised when you receive the same.

 

Now, as for arguing with every point... From my perspective, and it is only mine I'm stating here, I can only shake my head at the do as I say and not as I do mentality.

 

That being said...

 

It comes down to what the individual wants and what they are willing to do to get it. Garmin users are happy to go after the free programs providing they know about them.

 

DeLorme provides an alternative to the word of mouth effort. The PN series was designed with this concept in mind. Paying for public domain data at $30 per year? Hardly. Paying for upkeep of the equipment and storage of the data to be converted on the fly and readied for download to Topo for the PN owner? It's a mere pittance to pay. Yes the PN-40 is in growth pains. Yes there are some QC issues. Yes download speeds of large data could be better, but what do you want for $30 per year?

 

Bottom line that appears before me with all this, if it doesn't walk, quack and smell like a Garmin... it won't meet certain user's criteria - period. I can plan around the limitations and I'm happy with it. You don't have to be and I don't place any expectations for it but why trash those when they are happy with it with denegrative statements like the way yours started and then complain when it comes back at you?

 

I think what needs to eventually happen is folks decide they agree to disagree. Once a mind is made up, rehashing the same point (on either side) is useless.

 

I suggest everybody take a breather and remember it's just a device and it's involving a game we all enjoy.

 

You're right TotemLake. Unfortunately I submitted my rant the same time you submitted your more suitable comment.

 

No more rants from me. I like my PN-40. I like my 60csx. I like my Nuvi. I hope everyone else finds the GPSr they're happy with.

[+Searching_ut]

...Back to the PN-40, I've relegated mine to use as my primary geocaching device...

I've been saying that myself for while. Best geocaching GPS I can think of at this price point.

With current Amazon pricing, the Oregon 300 ($349 after rebate) is only $19 more than the PN-40 ($330). Given those prices, would you still say the PN-40 is the best geocaching GPSr for the price?

 

-- Rob

 

Why would you pay that much when you can pick up Colorado 300 for $250 at Costco.com, and that price includes the shipping. Myself I can't imagine using a touch screen unit in the field. I've been debating picking one up for awhile now, but haven't figured out how to justify the purchase with the wife. I just picked up a new Nuvi, the PN-40, and a new image stabalized telephoto lens along with a new set of binoculars. Any ideas on how to say I just can't live without???

 

You could always tell her you lost one and need to get another to go find it!

 

Now, let me get this clear before I do something I regret...I could buy the CO 300 for $250 and wouldn't need to buy any maps for it? Is it really easy to load maps to it?? I might want to give this a try myself, just to see what I'm missing!

 

You mean I'm supposed to load the maps in the GPS?? I try not to mention my old peak bagging story where I pulled out the Map on top of the mountain to help in identifying the surrounding area. Of course I put the GPS on the map to hold it down. Next thing map is flying through the air, and GPS is tumbling down the rocks. Luckily, both were retrieved, and remained serviceable. Loosing both my primary and back up navigation equipment in one opps though would have been embarrassing

 

As for the Garmin and maps, loading maps to the unit is actually relatively painless. It will cost you however, but only money. Money, or less money, time and patience. Guess you have to pick your poison.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

I never referred to myself as a DeLorme hater. I certainly don't appreciate the implication. I call it like I see it ... truthfully and honestly in as simple a language as I can. I bought a PN-40 because I thought it had potential. It still does, but right now has some significant shortcomings (again power lockups, still won't routinely acquire WAAS, routing lockups, corrupt cache pages, and kludges to get more than one cache in it). As it is now, it's not suitable for routine, much less serious, geocaching.

 

Wow, I'm really regretful that I read this. Until then, I had been totally happy with my PN-40 for kludgeless geocaching.

 

After reading the above, I took my kludge encumbered PN-40 out for the worst geocaching experience ever. I had no idea it could be so bad.

 

Not to worry for me, however. I'm off to my Palm Reader to get a mind flush and be happy with my -40 again forever after as I walk off into the sunset.

[+Tigerz]

As for XMap ... I went to the DeLorme website. I was signed in (via tracking cookies) as a PN-40 owner. I searched for XMap in their online store and I provided the link and the price they provided me. What I saw and shared started at $750. I have no way of knowing otherwise and frankly, no one has provided a link to anything different. Not that it matters ... even if it's $100 or $200, it's still not free which was the whole point.

 

Sure you can use Topo 7 and not the kludges. When you do, you're limited to 800 characters per cache page, no field notes, and no semi-automatic logging. You also can't easily enter user notes, corrected coordinates, or user defined child waypoints for things like parking and trailheads. To the extent you don't use Topo 7, you load the caches one at a time or use the kludges just like I stated.

 

Because a PN-40 got a WAAS lock after only 5 minutes certainly doesn't make it a good, much less serious, GPSr. Saturday, I took my PN-40 on a 70 mile drive. It was 20 miles in to the drive before I got WAAS and then it kept dropping in and out. About the only good news is I went the whole weekend (16-18 hours of heavy use and two battery changes) without my PN-40 locking up on low power.

 

Now that we're talking truth and fact, how many of you had your GPSrs provided to you by DeLorme? Is that the reason you defend the PN-40? I don't blame you for keeping quiet on that one. At this stage, had I had a hand in testing the PN-40, I'm thinking I'd try to find myself a rock to crawl under and hide.

 

I fully expect one or more of you to pop up now and say you have no allegiance to DeLorme. That's great and I welcome your objective, fact-based input with external links to support your position. On the other hand, if you're obligated to DeLorme, be professional and acknowledge the same when you make your comments.

[+TotemLake]

 

Now that we're talking truth and fact, how many of you had your GPSrs provided to you by DeLorme? Is that the reason you defend the PN-40? I don't blame you for keeping quiet on that one. At this stage, had I had a hand in testing the PN-40, I'm thinking I'd try to find myself a rock to crawl under and hide.

 

I fully expect one or more of you to pop up now and say you have no allegiance to DeLorme. That's great and I welcome your objective, fact-based input with external links to support your position. On the other hand, if you're obligated to DeLorme, be professional and acknowledge the same when you make your comments.

Content customer. Pure and simple.

 

Bummer your orange is a lemon.

Edited April 22, 2009 by TotemLake

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Now that we're talking truth and fact, how many of you had your GPSrs provided to you by DeLorme? Is that the reason you defend the PN-40? I don't blame you for keeping quiet on that one. At this stage, had I had a hand in testing the PN-40, I'm thinking I'd try to find myself a rock to crawl under and hide.

 

I fully expect one or more of you to pop up now and say you have no allegiance to DeLorme. That's great and I welcome your objective, fact-based input with external links to support your position. On the other hand, if you're obligated to DeLorme, be professional and acknowledge the same when you make your comments.

Content customer. Pure and simple.

 

Makes two of us!!

[+TotemLake]

I might add, Tigerz, the beta testers were held to an NDA, but have always disclosed their relationship as soon as DeLorme allowed it.

[+Pax42]

As for XMap ... I went to the DeLorme website. I was signed in (via tracking cookies) as a PN-40 owner. I searched for XMap in their online store and I provided the link and the price they provided me. What I saw and shared started at $750. I have no way of knowing otherwise and frankly, no one has provided a link to anything different....

 

Now that we're talking truth and fact, how many of you had your GPSrs provided to you by DeLorme? Is that the reason you defend the PN-40? I don't blame you for keeping quiet on that one. At this stage, had I had a hand in testing the PN-40, I'm thinking I'd try to find myself a rock to crawl under and hide.

 

Xmap 6 Pro

 

I thought your comments were interesting since I recall your recent post on the Delorme forums indicating frustration on not having heard anything about your application to be a beta tester.

 

As for me, I payed for my PN-40 with my own hard earned money. If, however, I'm ever offered the chance to be a beta tester...you bet. And if Garmin offered to make me a beta tester first...you bet. Magellan...mmm.

 

Darn it! sucked in again. No will power tonight.

[+TotemLake]

Darn it! sucked in again. No will power tonight.

[+Pax42]

Darn it! sucked in again. No will power tonight.

 

I blame it on Tuesdays being a slow TV night.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

As for XMap ... I went to the DeLorme website. I was signed in (via tracking cookies) as a PN-40 owner. I searched for XMap in their online store and I provided the link and the price they provided me. What I saw and shared started at $750. I have no way of knowing otherwise and frankly, no one has provided a link to anything different. Not that it matters ... even if it's $100 or $200, it's still not free which was the whole point.

 

Sure you can use Topo 7 and not the kludges. When you do, you're limited to 800 characters per cache page, no field notes, and no semi-automatic logging.

And as the $700 was out of date, so is the 800 which is now 5,000. But why bother keeping current when it does not fit the old refrain?