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emmett

Hasta la vista baby

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This recent thread (Additional logging requirement no longer allowed) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8388&st=200 makes evident two problems that appear to be getting worse as the frog gets bigger.

 

First, there are an increasing number of people who want to make up their own rules and, because of this, insanity now prevails. Examples are many and they have been well chronicled in other posts.

 

Second, the frog exhibits some of the worst behaviors you might expect from a monopoly, making up new rules because it can, without full regard for the people who helped build the site - those who place and maintain caches. There is no small number of cache owners who have worked hard to place and maintain good caches, only to see the frog one day pull the plug on them for no good reason. I was directly involved in this myself this past year and it was an eye-opening experience, revealing to me that frog management needs an attitude adjustment.

 

That’s why, since my subscription is about to expire, I will be holding onto my subscription money and shutting my 75 caches down, possibly for good, but more likely to arise in better form some day on another site. I'm guessing the frog will learn to act differently if and when others start to do the same.

 

As the governor of California once said, “Hasta la vista baby.”

 

.

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Bye...don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out...

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.

 

This recent thread (Additional logging requirement no longer allowed) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8388&st=200 makes evident two problems that appear to be getting worse as the frog gets bigger.

 

First, there are an increasing number of people who want to make up their own rules and, because of this, insanity now prevails. Examples are many and they have been well chronicled in other posts.

 

Second, the frog exhibits some of the worst behaviors you might expect from a monopoly, making up new rules because it can, without full regard for the people who helped build the site - those who place and maintain caches. There is no small number of cache owners who have worked hard to place and maintain good caches, only to see the frog one day pull the plug on them for no good reason. I was directly involved in this myself this past year and it was an eye-opening experience, revealing to me that frog management needs an attitude adjustment.

 

That’s why, since my subscription is about to expire, I will be holding onto my subscription money and shutting my 75 caches down, possibly for good, but more likely to arise in better form some day on another site. I'm guessing the frog will learn to act differently if and when others start to do the same.

 

As the governor of California once said, “Hasta la vista baby.”

 

.

 

You are not allowed to quit and archive your caches until you fill out, in triplicate, the Official Geocide form RK-666, submit it to Headquarters and have it approved by GS and two local reviewers. Once you complete that step you will be allowed to leave.

 

I wish you well, but you probably won't be missed.

 

I prefer Clint Eastwood, but we will not press the point.

 

Jim

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Oh, yes, have a nice day.

 

Jim

Edited by jholly

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[Geocaching 911] Geocaching 911...what's the emergency?

 

[emmett] I just heard they are not allowing ALR caches anymore!

 

[Geocaching 911] I see, sir...is this going to stop you from geocaching?

 

[emmett] Well, no...but this is so lame!

 

[Geocaching 911] Well, sir, there's not much I can do on this end, but to be safe I will dispatch a Wahhhmbulance to your home coordinates...

 

Yes, this is the end of geocaching... ;)

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First, there are an increasing number of people who want to make up their own rules and, because of this, insanity now prevails. Examples are many and they have been well chronicled in other posts.

As I just said in the other thread: people making up their own rules is exactly what ALRs are. How can you be against this change and be against individual rules at the same time?

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As a geocide, I'd give it about a 2 out of 10. The blatent entitlement was there, as was the hidden bid for empathy, but there wasn't enough outrage.

Perhaps another post by the OP, showing more teeth gnashing?

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Second, the frog exhibits some of the worst behaviors you might expect from a monopoly, making up new rules because it can, without full regard for the people who helped build the site - those who place and maintain caches. There is no small number of cache owners who have worked hard to place and maintain good caches, only to see the frog one day pull the plug on them for no good reason. I was directly involved in this myself this past year and it was an eye-opening experience, revealing to me that frog management needs an attitude adjustment.

 

 

I actually agree with this statement for the most part. However, this is not a particularly good Geocide. I give it a 5.5, mostly for referring to TPTB as "the frog".

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We agree with the OP sentiment also. We've stated we'll not renew our premium membership if this trend continues and all mystery caches are banned. With us, it's not exactly geocide, but more like "come any closer and I'll jump!" :rolleyes:

Edited by The Waysiders

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We agree with the OP sentiment also. We've stated we'll not renew our premium membership if this trend continues and all mystery caches are banned. With us, it's not exactly geocide, but more like "come any closer and I'll jump!" :rolleyes:

Don't know where you're getting the idea that all mystery caches will be banned, but...

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Ignore the prior posts from people who don't know you and have never done one of your caches. They don't live anywhere around here. I'm glad too. Is this how they treat their fellow cachers? :rolleyes:

 

Emmett, please don't go. :anicute: You would be greatly missed. You have some of the best caches in the area.

 

I really don't think our part of the country has some of the problems that other parts have with people making up their own rules. We seem to all play fairly here. No one goes around trying to find a way to log something they didn't find, solve or do. At least I don't come across it in all the cachers I know.

 

There will always be rules and changes to rules because people will always find a way around the rules. Its their own problem or loss.

 

Emmett, please don't go, but if you feel you must, please don't archive your caches. They are great caches. EXTREMELY well thought out. They are know for their difficulty (but not impossible) & inguiniety. I know you put a TON of work into them. Hiding is something you love to do. More than finding based on your numbers.

Edited by wandering4cache

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Ignore the prior posts from people who don't know you and have never done one of your caches. They don't live anywhere around here. I'm glad too. Is this how they treat their fellow cachers? :rolleyes:

 

Emmett, please don't go. :anicute: You would be greatly missed. You have some of the best caches in the area.

 

I really don't think our part of the country has some of the problems that other parts have with people making up their own rules. We seem to all play fairly here. No one goes around trying to find a way to log something they didn't find, solve or do. At least I don't come across it in all the cachers I know.

 

There will always be rules and changes to rules because people will always find a way around the rules. Its their own problem or loss.

 

Emmett, please don't go, but if you feel you must, please don't archive your caches. They are great caches. EXTREMELY well thought out. They are know for their difficulty (but not impossible) & inguiniety. I know you put a TON of work into them. Hiding is something you love to do. More than finding based on your numbers.

 

No, go on and pick up your ball and huff off!

 

That is what he's doing, you made me mad, I don't want to be reasonable anymore! I really like the part about how we cache hiders are the one building this site though...kinda like we drivers are the reason for the roads, so how dare the LEO tell me how to drive. SWEET!

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[Geocaching 911] Geocaching 911...what's the emergency?

 

[emmett] I just heard they are not allowing ALR caches anymore!

 

[Geocaching 911] I see, sir...is this going to stop you from geocaching?

 

[emmett] Well, no...but this is so lame!

 

[Geocaching 911] Well, sir, there's not much I can do on this end, but to be safe I will dispatch a Wahhhmbulance to your home coordinates...

 

Yes, this is the end of geocaching... :rolleyes:

 

I love it!!!! :laughing::anicute::laughing::lol:

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.

 

This recent thread (Additional logging requirement no longer allowed) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8388&st=200 makes evident two problems that appear to be getting worse as the frog gets bigger.

 

First, there are an increasing number of people who want to make up their own rules and, because of this, insanity now prevails. Examples are many and they have been well chronicled in other posts.

 

Second, the frog exhibits some of the worst behaviors you might expect from a monopoly, making up new rules because it can, without full regard for the people who helped build the site - those who place and maintain caches. There is no small number of cache owners who have worked hard to place and maintain good caches, only to see the frog one day pull the plug on them for no good reason. I was directly involved in this myself this past year and it was an eye-opening experience, revealing to me that frog management needs an attitude adjustment.

 

That’s why, since my subscription is about to expire, I will be holding onto my subscription money and shutting my 75 caches down, possibly for good, but more likely to arise in better form some day on another site. I'm guessing the frog will learn to act differently if and when others start to do the same.

 

As the governor of California once said, “Hasta la vista baby.”

 

.

 

You are not allowed to quit and archive your caches until you fill out, in triplicate, the Official Geocide form RK-666, submit it to Headquarters and have it approved by GS and two local reviewers. Once you complete that step you will be allowed to leave.

 

I wish you well, but you probably won't be missed.

 

I prefer Clint Eastwood, but we will not press the point.

 

Jim

 

Actually people like you,with your ignorant disrespectful sarcasm, wouldn't be missed if you would go away.

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What's even better are the morons who say "don't let the door hit you...".

 

What a bunch thugs you all are. Here's where I insert the downfall of civilized society speech but you're not worth the time.

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What's even better are the morons who say "don't let the door hit you...".

 

What a bunch thugs you all are. Here's where I insert the downfall of civilized society speech but you're not worth the time.

 

Well said. It is the same old agitators/apologists that constantly hijack threads with their stupid comments that add nothing to the discussion.

 

Their way or the highway.

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Well, I see the new rule change is already improving geocaching. Looks like there will be room for 75 new cache placements in Massachusetts. Well, if this guy gets off his duff and and does what he said he is gonna do.

 

JUMP!

JUMP!

JUMP!

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Yeah - the same ones who've said a thousand times "if you don't like something, don't do it" who now jump on any opportunity to deride & ridicule someone for doing just that. Really sump'n, innit?

 

What a concerned, caring, "best-people-on-earth" Brotherhood!

 

Emmett I'm sure this isn't a decision you made lightly. Godspeed in your new endeavors, & I hope you find the peace you seek.

 

We are diminished.

~*

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As I just said in the other thread: people making up their own rules is exactly what ALRs are. How can you be against this change and be against individual rules at the same time?

 

Correction: Groundspeak made up the rules, & ALRs were one of 'em. He/we were just playing by the rules.

How can you suggest if rules are there we shouldn't use 'em? Tryin' to make a few of your own?

 

~*

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Yeah - the same ones who've said a thousand times "if you don't like something, don't do it" who now jump on any opportunity to deride & ridicule someone for doing just that. Really sump'n, innit?

 

What a concerned, caring, "best-people-on-earth" Brotherhood!

 

Emmett I'm sure this isn't a decision you made lightly. Godspeed in your new endeavors, & I hope you find the peace you seek.

 

We are diminished.

~*

 

Yep, we're also the ones who understand that the end of the world didn't come with the new guidelines change. The same ones who don't allow ourselves to get all worked up to the point where we feel the need to act overly injured by a simple decision which TRULY has NOT changed the game any at all. We're the ones acting mature here, but you might see it differently.

 

My points when I encourage this cacher to exit stage left is that I'm sure there'll be more people willing to step up to the plate and add fun for others who are willing to accept the changes and continue to have fun!

 

And best people on earth?? Where did you see that stated? Who posted such an outlandish thought?

 

While I do see a community of cachers, I hardly doubt ANY community is filled with like-minded people who all get along. Seems we're all about normal to me!

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What's even better are the morons who say "don't let the door hit you...".

 

What a bunch thugs you all are. Here's where I insert the downfall of civilized society speech but you're not worth the time.

That started a few decades ago... :rolleyes:

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As a geocide, I'd give it about a 2 out of 10. The blatent entitlement was there, as was the hidden bid for empathy, but there wasn't enough outrage.

Perhaps another post by the OP, showing more teeth gnashing?

Really??!? I thought closing over 50 caches during geocide should buy at least a 3.

 

Nothing has really changed much - just went from a mandated task to an optional task.

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.

 

This recent thread (Additional logging requirement no longer allowed) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8388&st=200 makes evident two problems that appear to be getting worse as the frog gets bigger.

 

First, there are an increasing number of people who want to make up their own rules and, because of this, insanity now prevails. Examples are many and they have been well chronicled in other posts.

 

Second, the frog exhibits some of the worst behaviors you might expect from a monopoly, making up new rules because it can, without full regard for the people who helped build the site - those who place and maintain caches. There is no small number of cache owners who have worked hard to place and maintain good caches, only to see the frog one day pull the plug on them for no good reason. I was directly involved in this myself this past year and it was an eye-opening experience, revealing to me that frog management needs an attitude adjustment.

 

That’s why, since my subscription is about to expire, I will be holding onto my subscription money and shutting my 75 caches down, possibly for good, but more likely to arise in better form some day on another site. I'm guessing the frog will learn to act differently if and when others start to do the same.

 

As the governor of California once said, “Hasta la vista baby.”

 

.

 

You are not allowed to quit and archive your caches until you fill out, in triplicate, the Official Geocide form RK-666, submit it to Headquarters and have it approved by GS and two local reviewers. Once you complete that step you will be allowed to leave.

 

I wish you well, but you probably won't be missed.

 

I prefer Clint Eastwood, but we will not press the point.

 

Jim

 

Actually people like you,with your ignorant disrespectful sarcasm, wouldn't be missed if you would go away.

 

I notice your one of the whiners so I would expect this comment from you. I also noticed the OP has yet to commit geocide. When someone gets up and declares geocide I'm more than willing to help them. Far as I'm concerned the post was a troll, so I treated it as such.

 

Jim

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I notice your one of the whiners so I would expect this comment from you. I also noticed the OP has yet to commit geocide. When someone gets up and declares geocide I'm more than willing to help them. Far as I'm concerned the post was a troll, so I treated it as such.

 

Jim

 

Says one of the Master Trolls.

 

Thank you for your useless apologist comment.

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Seems we're all about normal to me!

 

Please, why resort to name calling. :rolleyes:

 

I just can't take a geocide seriously. If the OP wants to quit fine, quit. Just get on with it, no need to come in here and make a scene out of it.

 

Has he jumped yet?

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Ignore the prior posts from people who don't know you and have never done one of your caches. They don't live anywhere around here. I'm glad too. Is this how they treat their fellow cachers? :rolleyes:

 

Emmett, please don't go. :anicute: You would be greatly missed. You have some of the best caches in the area.

 

I really don't think our part of the country has some of the problems that other parts have with people making up their own rules. We seem to all play fairly here. No one goes around trying to find a way to log something they didn't find, solve or do. At least I don't come across it in all the cachers I know.

 

There will always be rules and changes to rules because people will always find a way around the rules. Its their own problem or loss.

 

Emmett, please don't go, but if you feel you must, please don't archive your caches. They are great caches. EXTREMELY well thought out. They are know for their difficulty (but not impossible) & inguiniety. I know you put a TON of work into them. Hiding is something you love to do. More than finding based on your numbers.

This post sums up the stupidity of geociding very well. One gets upset at The Frog and wants to punish The Frog so he refuses to renew his membership. C'mon! The Frog has over a million members, who knows how many are Premium. Say 5%, and that's probably low. That's 50,000. Now 5 of those geocide. That's 0.01%. Do you really think The Frog is going to bat an eye?

 

However, the local geocachers like this guy's caches. But those caches go away. Who is it that really gets punished here?

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So, what you are saying, Lil Devil, is that it is like me punching my drinking buddy in the nose because the state raises the beer tax.

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Yeah - the same ones who've said a thousand times "if you don't like something, don't do it" who now jump on any opportunity to deride & ridicule someone for doing just that. Really sump'n, innit? ...

I guess that you chose not to notice that those of us that you are targeting merely chose to support the OP doing what he said he would do rather than gnashing our teeth over it. How is that not in line with a general "do what you like and avoid what you don't like" position?

 

Do you really believe that everyone in the forums should beg people to stick around when they decide to pitch a fit and geocide?

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So, what you are saying, Lil Devil, is that it is like me punching my drinking buddy in the nose because the state raises the beer tax.

Exactly!

 

Or like a man divorcing his wife because the state no longer defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

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It is the same old agitators/apologists that constantly hijack threads with their stupid comments that add nothing to the discussion

I reserve my "stupid" comments for the drama queens.

Those who, when faced with things not going their way, throw tantrums to the effect of, "I'll just take my ball and go home".

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So, what you are saying, Lil Devil, is that it is like me punching my drinking buddy in the nose because the state raises the beer tax.

Exactly!

 

Or like a man divorcing his wife because the state no longer defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

 

I am not advocating geocide but you are missing a very relevant point.

 

Last time I checked, you don't GIVE the beer to the bar and then turn around and PAY the bar to drink it with your buddy.

 

And I am not even gonna comment on the marriage analogy.

 

The OP has been a significant contributor of free product (caches) to Groundspeak. And just like when Coke introduced new coke, customers had only one way of showing their displeasure with Coke's decision......and guess what??? Coke listened.

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And just like when Coke introduced new coke, customers had only one way of showing their displeasure with Coke's decision......and guess what??? Coke listened.

Yeah, but more than 20 people voiced a negative opinions regarding New Coke (me included, and I remember it well since we were a test market). Sales of New Coke were resoundingly bad and there was a huge outcry for the original product. Not so here. Lil Devils argument regarding the percentages involved is spot on, and your New Coke analogy only backs that up. You will have to come up with one that doesn't shoot your argument down.

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And just like when Coke introduced new coke, customers had only one way of showing their displeasure with Coke's decision......and guess what??? Coke listened.

Yeah, but more than 20 people voiced a negative opinions regarding New Coke (me included, and I remember it well since we were a test market). Sales of New Coke were resoundingly bad and there was a huge outcry for the original product. Not so here. Lil Devils argument regarding the percentages involved is spot on, and your New Coke analogy only backs that up. You will have to come up with one that doesn't shoot your argument down.

 

Is that the analogy used when it comes to listening to geocachers when there are changes to the guidelines that get some backlash in the forums? The forums represent a small vocal minority. If they were interested in finding out the opinions of the geocaching community, there are better ways of doing it.

 

Edit: Removed unnecessary comment.

Edited by Radman Forever

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It would be interesting to see Groundspeak send out a comprehensive customer satisfaction survey to the ENTIRE caching community.

 

I wonder what JDPower would dig up.

 

As Radman mentions, the percentage of cachers that participate in these forums is miniscule.

Edited by Tequila

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So, what you are saying, Lil Devil, is that it is like me punching my drinking buddy in the nose because the state raises the beer tax.

Exactly!

 

Or like a man divorcing his wife because the state no longer defines marriage as only between a man and a woman.

 

I am not advocating geocide but you are missing a very relevant point.

 

Last time I checked, you don't GIVE the beer to the bar and then turn around and PAY the bar to drink it with your buddy.

 

And I am not even gonna comment on the marriage analogy.

 

The OP has been a significant contributor of free product (caches) to Groundspeak. And just like when Coke introduced new coke, customers had only one way of showing their displeasure with Coke's decision......and guess what??? Coke listened.

 

I've looked at several of the OP's caches and I fail to see why he has his knickers in a bunch. The guideline changes don't affect his caches, at least I did not see any ALR's mentioned in the ones I looked at. Yes they are puzzle caches and yes you have to solve puzzles. The guideline changes do not change the status of puzzle caches, it changes the status of what are really traditional caches that you have to do something else to keep your log. So it looks like this guy has gone off and committed geocide for no reason at all. They look like nice and fun caches, but since I probably won't be in the area before he archives them I guess it doesn't matter. I don't know, maybe the ALR's are on the traditional and multis, I which case they were originally mis-categorized.

 

And you know what? Maybe six Premium members will quit in a huff, only to be replace by 12 new members. And of the original six, probably 4 will come slinking back without any fanfare or notes to the world. Will HQ notice? Probably not. Will HQ send him a letter pleading for him to re-consider? Probably not. Will Miss Jenn stop and reflect on the changes the guideline had on this guy? I don't know. She is a pretty nice lady but she does understand that at times actions have to be taken that might not get rave reviews by everyone on the forum. I also doubt she did this on her own without consulting some other folks that work at the lily pad.

 

Jim

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The contact address is well known. I am sure if they were deluged with complaints they might reconsider. It did happen before with find counts when they were briefly removed.

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The contact address is well known. I am sure if they were deluged with complaints they might reconsider. It did happen before with find counts when they were briefly removed.

 

Inviting user participation and polling isn't that hard and it might make things a little more fun. Being only receptive through an e-mail address doesn't give much for participation. State groups can have all the participation and influence it wants... in its small confines, of course. Groundspeak could have more impact.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

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The contact address is well known. I am sure if they were deluged with complaints they might reconsider. It did happen before with find counts when they were briefly removed.

 

Inviting user participation and polling isn't that hard and it might make things a little more fun. Being only receptive through an e-mail address doesn't give much for participation. State groups can have all the participation and influence it wants... in its small confines, of course. Groundspeak could have more impact.

First, I think it would be a huge mistake for Groundspeak to begin managing by poll. If they did that, their business would dry up within a year, based on the desires of those in the forums.

 

Second, there's four active threads regarding this guideline change. You can't honestly believe that TPTB haven't taken note of the discussions.

 

Third, your recurring argument that Groundspeak made this decision in a vacuum is untrue. This decision was clearly discussed with the reviewers. Those that mistakenly think of reviewers as employees of Groundspeak will not see this as obtaining outside opinion. The rest of us realize that reviewers are actually active, experienced geocachers who have a better feel for the health of the game than any of the rest of us. Obtaining the input of this group gives them a good feel of the real impact of a guideline change.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

Groundspeak is more than one guy. They can do more than one thing at a time.

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First, I think it would be a huge mistake for Groundspeak to begin managing by poll. If they did that, their business would dry up within a year, based on the desires of those in the forums.

 

Of course they would not live or die by the polls. I am just saying inviting basic user participation through means other than the forums, because people feel free to speak their opinions more when they aren't also waiting to be criticized.

 

Second, there's four active threads regarding this guideline change. You can't honestly believe that TPTB haven't taken note of the discussions.

 

The forums aren't a good place to gauge opinions. Besides, you can't possibly believe that after years of making decisions, THEN announcing their plans, that they would start taking note of the discussions AND do something about it. The forums have helped shape a few decisions, but overall, it has had little power.

 

Third, your recurring argument that Groundspeak made this decision in a vacuum is untrue. This decision was clearly discussed with the reviewers. Those that mistakenly think of reviewers as employees of Groundspeak will not see this as obtaining outside opinion. The rest of us realize that reviewers are actually active, experienced geocachers who have a better feel for the health of the game than any of the rest of us. Obtaining the input of this group gives them a good feel of the real impact of a guideline change.

 

Reviewers are great, but they come from a position unique to the average cacher. After two years of being a reviewer, I couldn't help but believe that i would be somewhat biased against caches that require extra, precious time that I have. Average cacher's opinions in the mix would also help and wouldn't hurt. They don't work for Groundspeak, but their stance isn't that of the average cacher, even though they are the average cacher.

 

Finally figured out how to break apart comments.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

Groundspeak is more than one guy. They can do more than one thing at a time.

 

Apparently not. There has been nothing done to fix the PQ problem all day, one of their customer's busiest days of the week.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

Nice. When losing an argument, change the subject.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

Nice. When losing an argument, change the subject.

 

Who said it was an argument?????

 

Another feeble attempt to agitate.

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Actually Groundspeak has bigger problems. As noted over in the gc.com forum, they are unable to deliver PQ reliably AGAIN!!!!!

Nice. When losing an argument, change the subject.

 

The original subject was a geocide. Since we don't care about that, making side comments isn't changing a subject that was changed a while ago. And he isn't losing the argument just because you say he is. The argument isn't for winning or losing anyways.

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Yes, the topic has strayed. Sorry to see you go. Hope you will reconsider after some reflection.

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