+briansnat Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Having placed a few, I really cannot understand the hatred and name calling of "Lame" people give to lamp-post skirt hidden caches. Aside from the paranoia "Oh-My-GOD! You'll Get Electrocuted!" rants, why do people hate LPC's so much? I placed a series of them, called "That Was Easy!", (all hidden near Staples stores, Naturally. the reason I placed them like that.. Fast & Fun for Kids! Imagine the look on a youngster, when they find their first geocache. But not making it so super difficult as to place tons of rocks on top, high up in a tree they cannot reach it, inside a tree a good 5 miles into the woods. The hard-core cachers are up in arms over Advanced Logging Requirements, Let them have their rant. I want to know why some think LPC's are so bad? Perhaps you should consult some kids before you decide what is "fun" for them. Most kids I know, including my own, prefer caches large enough to have toys or other interesting items in them. LPCs are generally film cans, so I never hear, "Woo hoo!" when pulling up to one. It's always, "another light post...can we do something else?" Whenever we find an ammo can, regardless of how far we have to hike, I get a much better reaction from them. My experience has been the same when caching with my young nieces and nephews. The first few caches we found together were regular size and stocked with trinkets. They were like kids on Christmas morning when I opened the container. Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count. Edited April 6, 2009 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
greenworldfeather Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I don't hate them, but find them boring. There have been two that I did find interesting, both with the container not being where expected. One had used a magnet so it was stuck to the underside of the "skirt". The other had enough room under the base of the lamp post to hide a micro underneath. So, it wasn't just a case of picking up the cover and "there it is". I have done those before. I am also thinking about doing one that is on a lamp post but is not under the skirt. Instead it would be like 6-7 feet above the skirt, or more, and it would be camo'ed. It would also probably be a nano or a very small micro. I hope that this inspires a few new creative hides. You could even get permission from the store owner to paint the whole fricking pole, skirt and all, camo colors. Now that I would love to go get because it would require a little more time and skill to do it AND to retrieve it and then to finally put it back up there. I am sure that most people would love that idea too. Go try it out. You never know what could happen. It just might give lamp post caches a better name along with a new angle on how to hide them. Good luck, and I hope that something like this works out. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf Quote Link to comment
greenworldfeather Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Having placed a few, I really cannot understand the hatred and name calling of "Lame" people give to lamp-post skirt hidden caches. Aside from the paranoia "Oh-My-GOD! You'll Get Electrocuted!" rants, why do people hate LPC's so much? I placed a series of them, called "That Was Easy!", (all hidden near Staples stores, Naturally. the reason I placed them like that.. Fast & Fun for Kids! Imagine the look on a youngster, when they find their first geocache. But not making it so super difficult as to place tons of rocks on top, high up in a tree they cannot reach it, inside a tree a good 5 miles into the woods. The hard-core cachers are up in arms over Advanced Logging Requirements, Let them have their rant. I want to know why some think LPC's are so bad? Perhaps you should consult some kids before you decide what is "fun" for them. Most kids I know, including my own, prefer caches large enough to have toys or other interesting items in them. LPCs are generally film cans, so I never hear, "Woo hoo!" when pulling up to one. It's always, "another light post...can we do something else?" Whenever we find an ammo can, regardless of how far we have to hike, I get a much better reaction from them. My experience has been the same when caching with my young nieces and nephews. The first few caches we found together were regular size and stocked with trinkets. They were like kids on Christmas morning when I opened the container. Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count. Are we dealing with a numbers-obsessed reviewer now? Oh, what is this sport coming to? YOu should be ashamed of yourself. YOu are a reviewer, publishing good, hopefully creative caches and you are saying thatbeing numbers-obssessed is good? That is like saying it is all about quantity, not quality. I am perfectly serious about this. Thanks, and have a great day. I hope that you come to your senses someday. When I cache for several caches in a day, at least I hope that they will be somewhat creative at least. gwf Quote Link to comment
+NeverSummer Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It's already been said, but the only way LPCs might get nixed would be in the specific cases where they are placed on private or commercial property without the consent of the property owners. But, in that case, it has been said that the cacher is essentially stating, via the check boxes at the bottom of the submission page, that they have followed the guidelines of Groundspeak and have not hidden a cache on private property without permission. In my case, I have asked for permission on my caches, they were more than happy let me use the space, and I let the reviewer know in my submission and subsequent reviewer notes. For use as an example in this discussion, if you don't like ammo cans along an established non-park created geotrail and hidden under a parallel stick pile, don't hunt them...to each their own As long as permissions are there, it is simply a battle between preferences, and not based on policy or guidelines set out by Groundspeak. Quote Link to comment
+power69 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Its not really the LPC per se. Cache owners love logs. Chances are a typcil LPC will generate a log of 20 words or so. You want to create a cache that people like so much they post a nice interesting log. Usually one word "TNLNSL" I haven't hid any LPC's yet. Quote Link to comment
+power69 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I welcome a LPC after a dnf or dnf duo. Quote Link to comment
+power69 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I welcome a LPC after a dnf or dnf duo. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 P.S. I think most wal-mart parking lots are big enough for two hides. EEEEEEEKK!!! <Little girlie scream> Gaia save us from cachers capable of measuring 528'. I believe there is a Super Wal-Mart in NW Pa. with 3 caches. I don't feel like looking it up though. Hey, the OP has only posted in the OP. I wonder if they are reading the opinions they asked for. We are allowed to give our opinions, aren't we? Quote Link to comment
+fraygirls Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 My kids and I are definitely not fans, although we did hide one once. As an April Fool's joke! Our dislike used to stem from the whole uninspired YAPLIDKA effect, but we now have another, more personal reason. Our town has one of those open-air "lifestyle" centers which offers shopping, movies, housing, walking trails, etc etc. We spoke with the management office for this whole place and were granted permission to place caches as long as we followed some simple guidelines. Cool. We placed three around the perimeter of the property - two that are continuations in two different series that we've started, and the third was hidden along one of the aforementioned trails. Everything was la-dee-da until a bunch of LPCs popped up in the parking lots here. Suddenly there were lots of *highly-visible* cache hunts going on where property was being manipulated in order to retrieve the cache. Concerned customers were contacting security about the strange behavior and a newly-hired BLART took it upon himself to seek and destroy all of the caches in the area - even the few which had been approved by management! So, the fact that we find them boring is part of it. Thanks to Free Will and Google Earth, though, we can avoid them. But when their presence starts affecting OUR caches - now they're in the doghouse! Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? 2) These are mostly the same folks that are rejoicing over the recent ban of a kind of cache (ALRs) that attempted to add some creativity to the game. Perhaps LPCs will be the next thing banned because The Complainers don't like those either? Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I've noticed that recently, Baskin-Robins, who are known for their chain of ice cream parlors that serves 31 flavors of hand packed ice, are now offering soft-serve as well. This seems some what silly. Why would they want to undercut the sales of the good stuff by offering soft serve. Could it be that some of their customers actually prefer soft serve? since when is baskin-robbins the good stuff? And what would you quote as the good stuff? gwf mr. mike's in danbury CT (are they still there?), ben and jerry's at the original location on bank street. you know, like that. baskin-robbins doesn't even approach the list. hasn't ever. won't. Quote Link to comment
+Graeme.N Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Sorry OP, but this reply is more to some of those that have posted than to you ... My daughter and I found our first LPC last week and despite it being on the top floor of a parking building, we actually enjoyed it because of it being a clever hide (we thought - we had never encountered one before, and would not have thought of hiding one there ... didn't realise it was possible). The cache was small, about 200ml I think, and had a variety of swaps in it and plenty of room for trackables. While I prefer interesting locations, and my children prefer "treasures", we also enjoy the search and variety: though this was something new (and therefore, exciting) to us, we wouldn't want to do hundreds of them, maybe not even dozens, unless the bulk of them were in interesting locations. Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I often like LPCs. They are convenient caches to find while I am out and about.This does not address the question stated in the OP "Why do people hate LPC's so much?, It's time to get it off your chest" Not that I'm saying you can't post to the thread or anything. Because they think geocaching is different than what it actually is (and always has been) and LPCs remind them that they are wrong?What? Sbell111 saying that someone's view of the game is wrong? For someone who always seems to be defending certain concepts because "that's the way they play the game," I find this post contradictory. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Did anybody here say they were? I'll have to go back and re-read the posts. 2) These are mostly the same folks that are rejoicing over the recent ban of a kind of cache (ALRs) that attempted to add some creativity to the game. Perhaps LPCs will be the next thing banned because The Complainers don't like those either? Really? Actually I don't like the ban, but I also fail to see what anybody (outside of control freak cache owners) is losing because of it. Edited April 6, 2009 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 So, it is ok for you to label and stereotype geocachers whom have opinions different then yours? I think you're pompous, snarky, and you like to bloviate, but you're entitled to your opinion, just as we are entitled to ours. None of those words accurately describe me. Judging me from a single post? Sometimes I just like to stir the pot.Ok, I guess we can just leave it at "troll" then. My experience has been the same when caching with my young nieces and nephews. The first few caches we found together were regular size and stocked with trinkets. They were like kids on Christmas morning when I opened the container. Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count. Are we dealing with a numbers-obsessed reviewer now? Oh, what is this sport coming to? YOu should be ashamed of yourself. YOu are a reviewer, publishing good, hopefully creative caches and you are saying thatbeing numbers-obssessed is good? That is like saying it is all about quantity, not quality. I am perfectly serious about this. Thanks, and have a great day. I hope that you come to your senses someday. When I cache for several caches in a day, at least I hope that they will be somewhat creative at least. gwf First, if you read the post, you will see he was explaining that was the reason the cache had been hidden, not what he thought the game is about. Second, just because someone is a forum moderator doesn't mean they are a reviewer... Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Did anybody here say they were? I'll have to go back and re-read the posts. Nope, I don't remember anyone saying they were either. Nor did I claim they did. I just asked the question, and once again got a very snarky answer by a forum moderator. 2) These are mostly the same folks that are rejoicing over the recent ban of a kind of cache (ALRs) that attempted to add some creativity to the game. Perhaps LPCs will be the next thing banned because The Complainers don't like those either?Really? Actually I don't like the ban, but I also fail to see what anybody (outside of control freak cache owners) is losing because of it. They offer the same thing a puzzle cache offers, or anything else that adds some creativity to a cache that some people don't like. I know it's not the EXACT same thing as a puzzle, obviously. There are big differences. But the addition of something to the cache, to add some variety, is the whole point. You can't act like nobody is losing anything when quite a lot of people are sad to see them go. The obviously like them. But... I still like caching, and I still like the site. I just think they dropped the ball again. It happens. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water and stomping off in a huff. In the grand scheme it's not a game ending wrong decision. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Okay, I'll bite. The difference is the location. There are lots of LPCs hidden in chain store parking lots, often based on some sort of contrived "theme" or series. For example, there is an "Always" series where all of the caches in the theme in in the parking lot or near "*Mart" stores (which have a big "Always Open" sign. It takes no imagination whatsoever to see a "*mart" store, and because of the series yet another cache is place in a lamp post skirt and titled "Always #43,789". In fact, any parking lot that is lighted with lampposts with liftable skirts has become a candidate for a cache. No imagination is required to find this type of location. However, a cache placed in "the woods" at least requires finding a spot which has a reasonable place to park (a bit more difficult than when there is already a parking lot), and probably a trail into the woods, then finding a location large enough to hide an ammo can. Granted, placing the ammo box at the base of a tree and piling a bunch of sticks on tip doesn't take imagination but I have found very few like that and they're typically quite aways into the woods. Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I just don't care much for urban caches, period. As for kids, mine prefer playing in parks over parking lots. Maybe it's hereditary. Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 However, a cache placed in "the woods" at least requires finding a spot which has a reasonable place to park (a bit more difficult than when there is already a parking lot), What's so creative about finding a place to park for the trek into the woods? and probably a trail into the woods, What's so creative about finding a trail into the woods when most of them (especially in parks) are well marked with signs? then finding a location large enough to hide an ammo can. After you've seen one ammo can sitting in an old stump hole, or stuck between two fallen logs, covered with sticks, you've seen them all. No creativity there either. They're as easy to figure out as pulling up beside a lamp post in the middle of a parking lot. Granted, placing the ammo box at the base of a tree and piling a bunch of sticks on tip doesn't take imagination Thank you for agreeing with my point. but I have found very few like that and they're typically quite aways into the woodsWell then if you're talking about other ammo can hiding techniques then you're not addressing my question. I'm not saying ammo cans in the woods under a pile of sticks is bad, or is something I wouldn't enjoy finding. I just don't see what makes them so much more creative than your average LPC. Quote Link to comment
+AngelWolf93 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 then finding a location large enough to hide an ammo can. After you've seen one ammo can sitting in an old stump hole, or stuck between two fallen logs, covered with sticks, you've seen them all. No creativity there either. They're as easy to figure out as pulling up beside a lamp post in the middle of a parking lot. Actually, I've found one ammo can with a great view of a wood-sy reservoir, one ammo can with a great view of a local dormant volcano, one ammo can with a view from the top of said volcano, and the list of different, gorgeous, entralling places continues... I have yet to find an LPC with anything other than a great view of the local big box store. And before you get all nitpicky, I'll grant that it may be a different big box store, so if you just love looking at big box stores, you will probably get all the variety you want! You can see S**ples, O**ice D**ot, **lMart, T**get, S*f*way, Pet*m*rt, and the list of basically large concrete boxes painted different colors with acres of flat, desolate asphalt in front of them continues... Granted, placing the ammo box at the base of a tree and piling a bunch of sticks on tip doesn't take imagination Thank you for agreeing with my point. I'll agree with your point, too. but I have found very few like that and they're typically quite aways into the woodsWell then if you're talking about other ammo can hiding techniques then you're not addressing my question. I'm not saying ammo cans in the woods under a pile of sticks is bad, or is something I wouldn't enjoy finding. I just don't see what makes them so much more creative than your average LPC. You could start a thread asking why people hate ammo cans under sticks. As for this thread, you have to expect people posting negative things about LPC's. One glance at the title of the thread should tell you that. "Why do people hate LPC's so much?" -hmmm...I wonder if people are going to be bashing LPC's? For me, it's less about the creativity of the hide and more about the selection of a location in which to place the hide. I'd rather have another ammo box at the base of a tree in the woods, or between two stumps in the woods, or under a pile of rocks on the summit of a mountain than 100 LPC micros. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. That's true. Lameness isn't limited to parking lots. Lameness comes in many forms, as it is entirely subjective. While I might find a particular cache too lame to even log, the next finder may think it's the neatest thing since sliced bread. Both opinions are perfectly valid. As I see it, this whole thread is about personal preferences. Biased aesthetics, if you will. What I like vs. what someone else likes. I happen to love nature. Just being surrounded by nature can put a silly grin on my face, whether it's a benign little, man made park with only a handful of trees and two or three acres of grass, or 20,000 acres of absolute, unspoiled wilderness. Because parking lots don't satisfy my quirky sense of aesthetics, a cache placed in one gets assigned a few extra lame points in my mental tally. Because of this bias, an LPC is more lame than an ammo can in a park, covered by an unnatural pile of sticks. Other folks aren't as judgmental as I am, and may not go through mental evaluations as they cache. They simply enjoy what life, fate and Groundspeak have to offer. While I salute these people, I recognize that I am not one of them. If you are one, you have my undying respect. Caching with these folks is always a pleasure. However, I've come to terms with who and what I am, and I am unwilling to pretend to be otherwise. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Okay, I'll bite. The difference is the location. There are lots of LPCs hidden in chain store parking lots, often based on some sort of contrived "theme" or series. For example, there is an "Always" series where all of the caches in the theme in in the parking lot or near "*Mart" stores (which have a big "Always Open" sign. It takes no imagination whatsoever to see a "*mart" store, and because of the series yet another cache is place in a lamp post skirt and titled "Always #43,789". In fact, any parking lot that is lighted with lampposts with liftable skirts has become a candidate for a cache. No imagination is required to find this type of location. However, a cache placed in "the woods" at least requires finding a spot which has a reasonable place to park (a bit more difficult than when there is already a parking lot), and probably a trail into the woods, then finding a location large enough to hide an ammo can. Granted, placing the ammo box at the base of a tree and piling a bunch of sticks on tip doesn't take imagination but I have found very few like that and they're typically quite aways into the woods. Creativity includes camo, hide style, as well as location. I've found my share of uninspired ammo box hides, but I'd estimate that about 3/4 of them had some degree of creativity, whether it was a uniquely camouflaged box, a challenging search, or an inspired location. I've yet to find an LPC that had any of these elements. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I agree with mundane and unimaginative, but there are plenty of NON-LPCs that are on private property and equally mundane and unimaginative. For those with children, handicapped, elderly I can see that it adds to the enjoyment of the game. For me personally, I like them when it gets particularly cold, or I get tired and need a quick pick me up. So kids, the disabled, and the elderly should be relegated to crappy caches in parking lots? The moment that I saw buttaskotch's post, I knew that someone would be quick to reference that line and ignore the rest. If you don't like LPC's then don't look for them. Could it be any more simple?Just curious, how do you know its an LPC until you've wasted your time and gas to get there?You would use the same methods that have been explained to you in previous threads. You know, those methods that you have stated that you will not use because you expect to blindly load your GPSr and head out, expecting to be amused by every cache you find while accepting no effort on your part to find your own fun. For those with children, handicapped, elderly I can see that it adds to the enjoyment of the game.I spent several months on crutches. My temporary handicap didn't suddenly cause me to get a great deal of enjoyment out of visiting Home Depot parking lots and lifting lamp post skirts. The idea that those who are handicapped should be thrilled by mundane LPCs is incredibly patronizing. Some may enjoy them and some might want a little bit more out of the sport than flitting between strip malls and big box store parking lots Whatever. I have also spent a considerable amount of time hobbled. During that time, I was quite thankful to discover that my fellow cachers planted caches that I was able to attempt and were convenient to me. I still am thankful for this. Having placed a few, I really cannot understand the hatred and name calling of "Lame" people give to lamp-post skirt hidden caches. Aside from the paranoia "Oh-My-GOD! You'll Get Electrocuted!" rants,why do people hate LPC's so much? I placed a series of them, called "That Was Easy!", (all hidden near Staples stores, Naturally. the reason I placed them like that.. Fast & Fun for Kids! Imagine the look on a youngster, when they find their first geocache. But not making it so super difficult as to place tons of rocks on top, high up in a tree they cannot reach it, inside a tree a good 5 miles into the woods. The hard-core cachers are up in arms over Advanced Logging Requirements, Let them have their rant. I want to know why some think LPC's are so bad? Perhaps you should consult some kids before you decide what is "fun" for them. Most kids I know, including my own, prefer caches large enough to have toys or other interesting items in them. LPCs are generally film cans, so I never hear, "Woo hoo!" when pulling up to one. It's always, "another light post...can we do something else?" Whenever we find an ammo can, regardless of how far we have to hike, I get a much better reaction from them.My experience has been the same when caching with my young nieces and nephews. The first few caches we found together were regular size and stocked with trinkets. They were like kids on Christmas morning when I opened the container. Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count. Perhaps you shouldn't have billed the game as a treasure hunt, huh? Edited April 6, 2009 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I often like LPCs. They are convenient caches to find while I am out and about.This does not address the question stated in the OP "Why do people hate LPC's so much?, It's time to get it off your chest" Not that I'm saying you can't post to the thread or anything. Because they think geocaching is different than what it actually is (and always has been) and LPCs remind them that they are wrong?What? Sbell111 saying that someone's view of the game is wrong? For someone who always seems to be defending certain concepts because "that's the way they play the game," I find this post contradictory. You may find it to be, but it isn't. Take a gander at those concepts that I'm 'always defending'. They are things like the right for caches that meet the guidelines to exist even though some vocal cachers don't enjoy them, the right to log a find however you feel (as long as you follow the guidelines and the cache owners wishes), the idea that people shouldn't be excessively snarky in the logs, and the idea that we should protect the gamepieces even for those caches that don't 'wow' us. These concepts are quite different than a scenario where someone believes that the core of teh game should be something that it is not; in this case the idea that the purpose of geocaching is to lead you to 'wow' locations. In reality, the purpose of the game has always been to lead you to a geocache. The location itself was never the primary objective. Those that wish to alter the game to force all locations to be 'wow' truly are doing it wrong. The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Okay, I'll bite. The difference is the location. There are lots of LPCs hidden in chain store parking lots, often based on some sort of contrived "theme" or series. For example, there is an "Always" series where all of the caches in the theme in in the parking lot or near "*Mart" stores (which have a big "Always Open" sign. It takes no imagination whatsoever to see a "*mart" store, and because of the series yet another cache is place in a lamp post skirt and titled "Always #43,789". In fact, any parking lot that is lighted with lampposts with liftable skirts has become a candidate for a cache. No imagination is required to find this type of location. However, a cache placed in "the woods" at least requires finding a spot which has a reasonable place to park (a bit more difficult than when there is already a parking lot), and probably a trail into the woods, then finding a location large enough to hide an ammo can. Granted, placing the ammo box at the base of a tree and piling a bunch of sticks on tip doesn't take imagination but I have found very few like that and they're typically quite aways into the woods. 1) Parking has bever been a required cache criterion.2) Caches in parking lots can be easily fit into our everyday lives. Caches in the woods cannot. 3) I've never been chewed by chiggers in a WalMart parking lot. Edited April 6, 2009 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. That's true. Lameness isn't limited to parking lots. Lameness comes in many forms, as it is entirely subjective. While I might find a particular cache too lame to even log, the next finder may think it's the neatest thing since sliced bread. Both opinions are perfectly valid. As I see it, this whole thread is about personal preferences. Biased aesthetics, if you will. What I like vs. what someone else likes. I happen to love nature. Just being surrounded by nature can put a silly grin on my face, whether it's a benign little, man made park with only a handful of trees and two or three acres of grass, or 20,000 acres of absolute, unspoiled wilderness. Because parking lots don't satisfy my quirky sense of aesthetics, a cache placed in one gets assigned a few extra lame points in my mental tally. Because of this bias, an LPC is more lame than an ammo can in a park, covered by an unnatural pile of sticks. Other folks aren't as judgmental as I am, and may not go through mental evaluations as they cache. They simply enjoy what life, fate and Groundspeak have to offer. While I salute these people, I recognize that I am not one of them. If you are one, you have my undying respect. Caching with these folks is always a pleasure. However, I've come to terms with who and what I am, and I am unwilling to pretend to be otherwise. This is one of the best posts in this thread. If this post were the first response to the OP's question, the thread could have been happily locked. Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count.Perhaps you shouldn't have billed the game as a treasure hunt, huh? My first thought was, "why would he bring kids to a micro and expect it to be filled with trade items?" Quote Link to comment
+obxnomad Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Personally I don't see much difference between them and a 35mm film canister with a soggy log, or the ever popular camo'ed bison tube hid in an evergreen shrub big enough to hide an M1 tank. Though there were times when I was impressed by the size and numbers of the spiders such a spot could hold. Quote Link to comment
+Mredria Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I never hated Micros or LPCs until I took my boyfriend caching. The first cache we found was a fairly large one with a ton of neat stuff in it in a gorgeous area that neither of us knew was there before. The second was a creatively cammo'd ammo can along a nature trail in a nearby park. He was all about caching then. The second time we found 1 micro and 1 LPC in parking lots. The first one he just kind of made an irritated noise. The second one, when he realized what was up, he just sat in the car. I still don't mind them that much, but I can understand how to some people, even the small effort needed to find them(most of them, the bad ones) is not worth it for the rewards. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. That's true. Lameness isn't limited to parking lots. Lameness comes in many forms, as it is entirely subjective. While I might find a particular cache too lame to even log, the next finder may think it's the neatest thing since sliced bread. Both opinions are perfectly valid. As I see it, this whole thread is about personal preferences. Biased aesthetics, if you will. What I like vs. what someone else likes. I happen to love nature. Just being surrounded by nature can put a silly grin on my face, whether it's a benign little, man made park with only a handful of trees and two or three acres of grass, or 20,000 acres of absolute, unspoiled wilderness. Because parking lots don't satisfy my quirky sense of aesthetics, a cache placed in one gets assigned a few extra lame points in my mental tally. Because of this bias, an LPC is more lame than an ammo can in a park, covered by an unnatural pile of sticks. Other folks aren't as judgmental as I am, and may not go through mental evaluations as they cache. They simply enjoy what life, fate and Groundspeak have to offer. While I salute these people, I recognize that I am not one of them. If you are one, you have my undying respect. Caching with these folks is always a pleasure. However, I've come to terms with who and what I am, and I am unwilling to pretend to be otherwise. This is one of the best posts in this thread. ... Agreed. Very nicely done. Quote Link to comment
+3doxies Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I want to know why some think LPC's are so bad? The littany of responses so far would seem to suggest that one possible answer to your question is: "Because the respondent believes LPCs do not fit into the respondent's definition of what caching should be/was meant to be." Which is an interesting viewpoint, actually. One thing it implies is that the respondent, or a group of similarly inclined respondents, believes they know what is best for caching, or at least knows what caching 'should' be - or was meant to be. And on one level they are right - they know what is best for caching as they experience caching. However, just as we are all created wonderfully different, we all experience things, both pleasurable and not, very differently. As at least one previous poster has noted, even when we limit our consideration to a single person, we find that perceptions change over time, circumstance, and experience. So to claim that we have such omniscience is, perhaps, a bit overstating our importance in the caching universe....at least, until something arises from the pond and declares clearly and uniequivocally that "[THIS] is what geocaching as it exists underneath the geocaching.com banner shall be". It is fine to express why you, as an individual, do not like one cache type or another...we all have more than our share of "good" experiences as well as "bad", and we certainly can try to learn from our collective experiences. But let your proclamation stop there, lest you become a clanging gong or noisy cymbal. Interestingly, it's quite possible that if one were to look at the caching practices of participants, you could possibly find that words sometimes don't equate to actions...suggesting that the more important facet of such a discussion is not actually what really is best/worst for the caching community as a whole, or even for one's own caching experience, but rather simply being heard. (That is, of course, unless you actually like doing something you don't like - for which the pharmaceutical industry can perhaps aid you with that malady.) True, there are the occasional LPCs whose nature is not evident from the cache page and embedded maps/satellite imagery - and to those who unfortunately have their day ruined by such an excursion, apologies are certainly in order. Hopefully, (and indeed at least in our experience this is the case), those experiences are rather uncommon - as are the instances where the placement of an LPC prohibits a more creative or imaginative hide. But when/if that happens, has consideration been given to contacting the CO and trying to negotiate a solution? As for doxies...sometimes we like finding caches on light poles, and sometimes we just like finding light poles. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I still don't mind them that much, but I can understand how to some people, even the small effort needed to find them(most of them, the bad ones) is not worth it for the rewards. Your post does a good job of describing how my wife & I cache. After 20 years together, I still am blown away that she would want to spend any time at all with me, being the curmudgeon that I am. Just being with her is a simple pleasure, and being with her while she does something she enjoys, only adds to my joy. She loves those pesky urban hides which I dislike so much. Hunting them by myself just ain't gonna happen. My fun meter hits zero before my foot finishes hitting my brake peddle. However, hunting them with her is quite fun. Not for the caches, per say, but for the simple fun of being with someone who is enjoying themselves. That's where P&Gs fit in my caching lifestyle. I'd hate to see them go, as Viv won't venture into the gator infected swamps I love to cache in. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 sometimes we like finding caches on light poles, and sometimes we just like finding light poles. Makes me wonder if the old Chineese proverb, "Sometimes you lose a forest through the trees" should be revamped to "Sometimes you lose a parking lot through the lamp posts" Quote Link to comment
+JacobBarlow Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I like 'em. And I don't think as many people hate them as it seems like, I think the people who like them are out finding them so they are not heard from here, while the people who hate them have nothing to look for so they complain here. hehe Quote Link to comment
+team_goobie Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Having placed a few, I really cannot understand the hatred and name calling of "Lame" people give to lamp-post skirt hidden caches. Aside from the paranoia "Oh-My-GOD! You'll Get Electrocuted!" rants, why do people hate LPC's so much? I don't hate them. They make great decoys for my caches. Lamposts are not ALL relegated to being in big box store parking lots. I've got a cache in a certain historical location that most everyone assumes is under the lamp post skirt when they get to the coord. It isn't, so if you were one of the "it must be in the skirt so I'm outta here what a lame hide" crowd you missed out on a nice cache at a great, scenic and historic location. Whups! Your bad! And even if it WAS in the skirt, you still missed out. Location is (almost) everything. Quote Link to comment
+Dr. House Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I have no real gripe about LPC's save for the fact that they seem to be favorite homesteads of wasps, and I have an insane fear of bees. Knowing this, my family laughs at me and thinks I've gotten myself knee-deep in the wrong sorta hobby since bees are pretty much everywhere. I actually get nervous when approaching a lampskirt in a parking lot far more than anywhere else I've been, as silly as that may sound to everyone else. Quote Link to comment
+SMOOCHIES Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yes they are boring, but if I hadn't been with a construction type person, I would never have known they even moved! As a new cacher, it's just fun to find them for now, and now I know where to look. I'm sure I'll get bored of them soon. Also, when you only have 10-15 minutes after work to cache, it's nice to come up with something. Whe we start to plan our caching time on weekends, we will probably look for caches that are more interesting to find. Quote Link to comment
+Barnacle Bear Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Light Pole Caches are a danger to geocaching for a variety of reasons. 1. The great majority are on privately owned property. Admit it. If you owned a business property would you allow a group of people to pursue a suspicious activity on your land. I doubt it. 2. Yes, a suspicious activity. Loitering in a parking lot and lifting lamp post covers is suspicious. Too many it smacks of drug use. Would you feel comfortable doing it if a cop was parked nearby? I doubt it. 3. It gives the suspicion of possible danger to those who work and shop inside. Who is that out in the parking lot? What is he doing out by my car? What is he putting under that lamp post? Will I be safe out there? Is the answer to any of these questions positive, except to a geocacher. 4. This type of geocaching brings undue police attention to our hobby. The number of LEO/cacher encounters is on the rise in Northwest Ohio. So far no one has been detained. However, all of those officers are required to keep a log of their activities. Sooner or later our activities will be noticed on the municipal, state and/or national level. The number of daily FBI complaints about geocaching exceeds 19. 5. Once we are noticed by the lowest level of government what will happen? Do you really think that ‘they’ will have a reasoned response? Do you think ‘they’ will convene a committee to study the issue? Or, will ‘they’ have more important matters to consider, like the safety of the shopping (tax paying) public. Who do you think ‘they’ will choose? 6. So far we have been operating under the radar. Since there is nothing to fear from us we think that we do not need to be concerned with our actions. In that we are wrong. We cannot put ourselves in the position of having to justify our actions. When that happens we will be looking for a ‘Yes’ when it will be easier for those in power to say ‘No!’ 7. It will be better if we address the issue than if ‘they’ do. Do not encourage them. Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Did you ever bother to see the view, look at the wildlife, admire the plants / flowers? 2) These are mostly the same folks that are rejoicing over the recent ban of a kind of cache (ALRs) that attempted to add some creativity to the game. Perhaps LPCs will be the next thing banned because The Complainers don't like those either? I'm against the outright ban, because I think many very creative caches were ruined due to the rule change. Not one person in this thread advocated an outright ban on LPCs. Edited April 6, 2009 by Kit Fox Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 2. Yes, a suspicious activity. Loitering in a parking lot and lifting lamp post covers is suspicious. Too many it smacks of drug use. Would you feel comfortable doing it if a cop was parked nearby? I doubt it. Actually... Quote Link to comment
+Team Birdaholic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Lamp post skirt was my introduction to geo-caching. I worked at a Walmart in the lawn and garden dept, and while helping people load mulch, I noticed some people go to a lamp post and lift the skirt and take something and open it then put it all back. After the third find, I went to the lamp post to see what was going on. I found a film canister with some paper and a list of names and dates. I asked the next person I say what it was all about and they told me about geochaching. I then looked it up on the net and the rest is history. Only one thing, my pocket queries do not include micros. There are plenty of others to look for which I can enjoy. Every one to their own. Quote Link to comment
+3doxies Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Light Pole Caches are a danger to geocaching for a variety of reasons. 1. The great majority are on privately owned property. Admit it. If you owned a business property would you allow a group of people to pursue a suspicious activity on your land. I doubt it. 2. Yes, a suspicious activity. Loitering in a parking lot and lifting lamp post covers is suspicious. Too many it smacks of drug use. Would you feel comfortable doing it if a cop was parked nearby? I doubt it. 3. It gives the suspicion of possible danger to those who work and shop inside. Who is that out in the parking lot? What is he doing out by my car? What is he putting under that lamp post? Will I be safe out there? Is the answer to any of these questions positive, except to a geocacher. 4. This type of geocaching brings undue police attention to our hobby. The number of LEO/cacher encounters is on the rise in Northwest Ohio. So far no one has been detained. However, all of those officers are required to keep a log of their activities. Sooner or later our activities will be noticed on the municipal, state and/or national level. The number of daily FBI complaints about geocaching exceeds 19. 5. Once we are noticed by the lowest level of government what will happen? Do you really think that ‘they’ will have a reasoned response? Do you think ‘they’ will convene a committee to study the issue? Or, will ‘they’ have more important matters to consider, like the safety of the shopping (tax paying) public. Who do you think ‘they’ will choose? 6. So far we have been operating under the radar. Since there is nothing to fear from us we think that we do not need to be concerned with our actions. In that we are wrong. We cannot put ourselves in the position of having to justify our actions. When that happens we will be looking for a ‘Yes’ when it will be easier for those in power to say ‘No!’ 7. It will be better if we address the issue than if ‘they’ do. Do not encourage them. On the surface, this appears to be a much broader expose on urban caching, as opposed to LPCs...or are they one and same? Much of what you describe has already taken place with far different/larger containers, not been confined to parking lots, and is far more a product of geocacher actions than the geocache itself. Geocachers themselves need to act responsibly: and regulation (or attempts to regulate) caches themselves oft cannot alter cachers behaviors...again, unless you propose to eliminate urban caching on a large scale. Interstingly, LEOs in our area seem to have a somewhat different reaction than that anticpated above. Maybe its just our Southern roots, or just some backwater hillbilly non-chalance, but upon our interactions with LEOs regarding LPCs and other urban caches, their reaction was one of "Oh...cool. Have fun." It would seem far more beneficial, and more likely to be widely accepted, to attempt to truthfully educate than to operate in a "lets stay underneath the radar" mode with regards to geh public in general, but particularly so with LEOs and the like. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) The number of daily FBI complaints about geocaching exceeds 19. Wow. 19, huh? Gosh. If I were to call the Orlando Field Office for the FBI, would they tell me how many geocaching complaints they've had today? This week? Last month? 2008? Will they give me patterns and trends? Or would they simply abduct me in the night, never to be seen again? Once we are noticed by the lowest level of government what will happen? What would you consider to be the "lowest level" of government? I've been in law enforcement since 1982, and I've noticed. So far, all I've done is join in the fun. Edited April 7, 2009 by Clan Riffster Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hi hi, This is my first post to the forums at all, please be gentle on me. I just want to answer the OP's question. Me personally, I don't hate LPCs, but they certainly are not my favorite. I have been reading posts about them being fun for kids or elderly folks or disabled folks, etc. I am the victim of a terrible back injury which caused me to not be able to walk for almost a year. Honestly, I love geocaching so much because it's what has gotten me back into walking and exercising and challenging myself. When I first started caching I never imagined that within a year I'd be scaling up the face of Castle Rock (south of Denver, CO) in the hail and rain to find a cache, that was an adventure I'll never forget. I also know that because of my experience that it is possible to hide wonderful caches that are handicap accessible and child-friendly in fabulous places that teach a person about the area in which they are caching! We just moved to Oregon two months ago, and geocaching is teaching us so much about the state and its history. Anyhoo... LPCs. As I mentioned I don't "hate them so much" but I do think there could be less of them. My husband and I are in the process of putting together a series of caches based on Twilight Zone episodes and have been disappointed when we cannot put out a really creative cache because there is a light pole cache in its way. But then again, that person got to the location first... so I will work my brain to find a better place for my cache. That all being said, we don't turn down a cache just because it's an LPC... In fact, we were really pleased the other day when we found a cache (called Dash and Cache) in Eugene that we thought was going to be another LPC, and it turned out to be something really creative and cool instead. -Rozie (Nymphnsatyr) Quote Link to comment
Luckless Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Add my name to the list of people who sometimes like them depending on the situation. I'm pretty much a lone cacher so when the waypoint leads up to a lampost I just stand there shaking my head going "duh I wonder where this one is". I also don't like the stealth to retrieve them. I suspect most are placed without permission and I expect to be confronted by a business owner wanting to know what that lone person is doing messing about with that lampost. During the winter LPCs are much more appreciated around here. Sometimes they are the only caches above snow level that haven't frozen over. Snow also ups the terrain when you have to dig down through a three foot packed snowbank to get it or when the parking lot is a sheet of ice and you have to skate across it without falling down and breaking something. LPCs also proved to be a little more enjoyable with group because there's competition to see who could race to be the first to it. Quote Link to comment
Mushtang Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Did you ever bother to see the view, look at the wildlife, admire the plants / flowers? Is the presence of a view, wildlife, plants/flowers something that makes a cache "creative"? Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I have to say that whether or not the cache hide is creative or not I always enjoy it best when I'm out in nature. Even if it's an ammo can under some sticks out in the woods, it's the walk that got me there that I really appreciate; especially if it's a historically significant location. I also have to say though, that the most memorable caches that I've found were the most creatively hidden, whether urban or not. -Rozie Quote Link to comment
GPS-Hermit Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Reasons for not liking LPC's or other quick grabs. 1. The Lamp post are about 100 feet apart, GPS is accurate to about +- 25 feet, only one skirt per pole, Gee wonder where it would be. It is a brainless endevor that I wish was out of my way. Not a game at all. No hunt - it is right there. 2. I have to weed out the Lame caches to find my adventure woodzy hiking caches and get some exercise. 3. Location Location Location is what I found when I started and loved this game, 2001. I got taken to many really neat places, with a view, rock formation, trails, Trails Trails, trails cliffs, Water falls, fishing spots, creeks, rivers, caves, Parks with trails, special trees, trees, scenery, history, ruins, great and interesting places that I otherwise might not ever have seen and truely enjoyed. I just loved it and could not wait for another one. A great introduction to many places in the states of PA, WV, VA, NC. 4. I simply don't enjoy a 30 second find or any place where muggles are abundant and suspect you are up to something bad. I don't want to be THAT careful of being discovered and I will NOT come back later. I enjoy a worry free hunt and the peace of being out there in tranquility. I also enjoy the exercise a lot. 5. Many times I have returned to an area to do more of what I found there. Just loved it. 6. I use to be able to find an interesting cache on the web in just minutes and off I go. Now it really takes an effort, so many lame ones to weed thru. 7. A lame cache is any cache without an ounce of thought. When I explain to Folks what Geo-caching is all about - I never ever give an example of anything easy and thoughtless. 8. I love the logs of what people say after caching an interesting one because I bond with it so much. 9. I take great and wonderful pictures at, around, or to and from wonderful caches. Can't imagine showing off a Walmart lot to a friend. 10. Finding the cache is really secondary to the location of choice and a matter of pride. I am very proud of those folks who take an interest in the location of their cache. 11. Other caches I will not do - include playgrounds for children, lots of thorns, and PI, trash, bridges of busy roads, Mini's in general cause I want to trade. I have found a few, one out in the woods. I shy away from graveyard caches as well, done a few but kinda feel ill at ease with those - like 'I' don't belong there. Don't like to snoop around neighborhoods either. I wanna be out there, not bothering anyone. Don't care too much for fill in the Blank caches to get the co-ords, yet I do like multi-caches if each step is at a neat part of the adventure. 11.2 I have done some puzzles and enjoyed them but WAY too stumped on others. That is OK. If I worked hard on a puzzle that took me to Pizza Hut I would be PO'd. 12. I do like the trading thing alot and enjoy thinking up interesting things to trade and seeing what others have to offer. It a neat part of the game. They man! what is in there. Look at this stuff. Pretty neat idea! Trade items need to not be Lame as well. Not just the cache. It is not that hard. Neat containers are an interesting part of the game as well. Some are really neat! 13. I enjoy Wildlife, excluding many of the bugs, but find a few of THEM pretty neat. Like a Hercules Beetle. 14. Mostly I just want to be taken somewhere neat that someone else loves and get a hike or general WOW out of it. 15. There are many great ones - just have to work harder at finding them now. 16. I have become more and more interested in finding my way around in the woods - love bushwacking way off trail. I am better at map reading, compass reading, terrain reading, North finding, and research an area than I ever was before and alot of it happens before I go. I am still impressed with what a GPS will do and still smart enough to not depend on it. I love being woods aware. Still never seen my 1st bear in the wild. I am learning to calculate the height of a mountain without going up there. 17. Love saying, now this would be a GREAT place for a cache! Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The folks that list "Lack of creativity" as a reason for hating LPCs make me laugh. 1) I've found WAY more ammo cans in the woods under a pile of parallel sticks than LPCs. What's so creative about those? Did you ever bother to see the view, look at the wildlife, admire the plants / flowers? Is the presence of a view, wildlife, plants/flowers something that makes a cache "creative"? Most cache containers are not very creative. I can tolerate an un-camouflaged "Lock&Lock" at the top of a mountain, or next to a scenic waterfall. In my personal view of geocaching, there are few creative LPCs. Even a super cool, handcrafted container, hidden underneath a lamppost would barely improve the "fun factor" for me. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Then we found a micro. The look of disappointment on their faces was obvious. I tried to explain to them that it was all about the numbers and getting a smiley, but they didn't seem to understand. Silly kids, they were looking for a "treasure" and didn't realize that a slip of paper torn from a notebook is the true treasure because you get to increase your find count.Perhaps you shouldn't have billed the game as a treasure hunt, huh? My first thought was, "why would he bring kids to a micro and expect it to be filled with trade items?" Did he say that he did that? You would use the same methods that have been explained to you in previous threads. You know, those methods that you have stated that you will not use because you expect to blindly load your GPSr and head out, expecting to be amused by every cache you find while accepting no effort on your part to find your own fun. Unless the cache page states that its an LPC I don't see how any of those methods can tell me for certain that it's an LPC. They will tell me that the possibility exists that it's an LPC, but the possibility also exists that it's an outstanding cache and one that I wouldn't want to miss. Edited April 7, 2009 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
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