TB's that "Need Maintenance" (or "Are Dead, Dead, Dead!")

April 4, 2009

Consider a TB like TB11A8W. It's been loaned to a moon of Jupiter for aeons, yet neither its owner nor the owner of the cache it was last placed into seems to be willing to mark it "missing," so it still shows up as being "in" a cache. Could we please have a way to mark a TB as "Needs Maintenance" just as we have long been able to do with a cache that is damaged or missing? For those of us who like to seek TB's in vacation spots, etc., going to a cache and "discovering" that a TB that was placed there in 1847 is no longer present is kinda a bummer. The ability to get rid of these phantom TB's might be helpful. Thx k bai.

11.2k · April 4, 2009

I'm with you, LeoGeo. I get so frustrated when a TB is known to be missing, and neither the TB owner nor the cache owner (sometimes the same) will mark it as gone. I know one that's been gone for over a year, but my pleas are ignored. My log will eventually get buried, and not seen at all, so I too wish I could mark the TB as "needs maintenance". Great idea!

April 4, 2009

Right on!!! I have seen "Eartha" say to give the tb and cache links and eartha will remove them, but obviously the mods and vol. have so much to do that I feel as if it is just placing more of a burden on them....

But YES, a tb maintenance sounds like a really good idea!!!!!!!!!!!!

22k · April 4, 2009

I'm with you, LeoGeo. I get so frustrated when a TB is known to be missing, and neither the TB owner nor the cache owner (sometimes the same) will mark it as gone. I know one that's been gone for over a year, but my pleas are ignored. My log will eventually get buried, and not seen at all, so I too wish I could mark the TB as "needs maintenance". Great idea!

Forward the bug information to your local reviewer or Eartha.

22k · April 4, 2009

Consider a TB like TB11A8W. It's been loaned to a moon of Jupiter for aeons, yet neither its owner nor the owner of the cache it was last placed into seems to be willing to mark it "missing," so it still shows up as being "in" a cache. Could we please have a way to mark a TB as "Needs Maintenance" just as we have long been able to do with a cache that is damaged or missing? For those of us who like to seek TB's in vacation spots, etc., going to a cache and "discovering" that a TB that was placed there in 1847 is no longer present is kinda a bummer. The ability to get rid of these phantom TB's might be helpful. Thx k bai.

It is my opinion that verifying missing bugs and clearing out the listing is part of cache maintenance and the owner should be taking responsibility just like they would with a wet logbook and leaky container.

As long as certain controls would be put in place to control/prevent misuse/misunderstanding of the feature I'm all for a Needs Maintenance for Travel Bugs.

Edited April 4, 2009 by BlueDeuce

24.7k · April 4, 2009

...when a TB is known to be missing,...

I fully expect both my TB's to turn back up. No clue where the one is. The other is near a dead cache. I said as much in a the log but someone kindly emailed me to let me know the cache was MIA even though the bugs (coin) is not in it.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Renegade Knight

24.7k · April 4, 2009

....It is my opinion that verifying missing bugs and clearing out the listing is part of cache maintenance and the owner should be taking responsibility...

Since I don't care much for the TB side, it's my opinion that in exchange for my caches being availble for the TB folks who do like that angle they can kindly leave me happily uninvolved.

22k · April 4, 2009

....It is my opinion that verifying missing bugs and clearing out the listing is part of cache maintenance and the owner should be taking responsibility...

Since I don't care much for the TB side, it's my opinion that in exchange for my caches being availble for the TB folks who do like that angle they can kindly leave me happily uninvolved.

Well, feel free to ignore the TBNM as well. At least it'll provide information for the seekers and the TB owners.

4.7k · April 4, 2009

It is my opinion that verifying missing bugs and clearing out the listing is part of cache maintenance and the owner should be taking responsibility just like they would with a wet logbook and leaky container.

as a cache owner i don't consider it my responsibility to babysit TBs. not my problem.

as a TB owner, i know that several of mine have reappeared after being gone more than three years.

as a cache finder, i don't expect the TB inventory of a cache to be accurate.

i have a complete failure to care.

3.8k · April 4, 2009

Seems to me that a needs maintenance on the cache would be applicable.

Much as a missing log or a missing container indicates a needs maintenance so to a missing travelbug listed on the cache page would need the same maintenance.

Of course you are going to draw the ire of cache owners if you log a needs maintenance on every cache that has missing travel bugs.

22k · April 4, 2009

I have no doubt that bugs sit in cache listings for years either because people don't know what to do with them or don't care.

Edited April 4, 2009 by BlueDeuce

24.7k · April 4, 2009

Seems to me that a needs maintenance on the cache would be applicable.

...

How so? It's the TB that needs work. The cache is fine.

Now a TBNM log that would flag the TB the same way the NM log flags a cache may have some merit. Then I can continue to ignore TB's in peace.

3.8k · April 4, 2009

Seems to me that a needs maintenance on the cache would be applicable.

...

How so? It's the TB that needs work. The cache is fine.

Now a TBNM log that would flag the TB the same way the NM log flags a cache may have some merit. Then I can continue to ignore TB's in peace.

As a cache owner it is my obligation that a cache page is a true representation of the cache. If the cache listing shows that the cache is a terrain of 1 and it is really a 5 I am responsible to correct either the terrain or the listing.

By the same token if the cache page shows that the cache contains a TB I should also correct the cache page to reflect the actual status of the cache.

I know it is a stretch but it could be taken as the cache owners responsibility under the cache maintenance guidelines

Cache Maintenance

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

4.7k · April 4, 2009

As a cache owner it is my obligation that a cache page is a true representation of the cache. If the cache listing shows that the cache is a terrain of 1 and it is really a 5 I am responsible to correct either the terrain or the listing.

as a cache owner i feel a responsibility to properly represent the container, log, and proper ratings.

keeping track of other people's stuff that just happens to pass through as contents is not my concern.

just because a thing shows up on the cache page doesn't make it my problem. things that i put on the cache page are my responsibility. stuff that you log in or out of my cache is your problem.

i get it all the time: my TB is listed as being in your cache, which hasn't been visited in over a year. could you, as the cache owner, go and get it?"

my response is uniformly "why don't you as the bug owner go up there and get it? i'll be happy to check on it the next time i do cache maintenance. until then, you're on your own."

of course, i might could just mark every TB that comes into one of my caches as missing, just so i don't have to deal with other people's hassles.

if it's there, it's there. it's not on my cache page, though. i'm golden.

1.9k · April 5, 2009

It seems that many cache owners don't know that they can mark trackables as missing. I suspect that if this became common knowledge, this issue would decline.

April 6, 2009

I'm with you, LeoGeo. I get so frustrated when a TB is known to be missing, and neither the TB owner nor the cache owner (sometimes the same) will mark it as gone. I know one that's been gone for over a year, but my pleas are ignored. My log will eventually get buried, and not seen at all, so I too wish I could mark the TB as "needs maintenance". Great idea!

It seems to me that letting Eartha know about such travelbugs is the way of marking a 'travel bug needs maintenance' log. I think ( ) it is part of her role to help with such things, from what I have experienced.

This would expecially be the case if the missing traveller is a Jeep or Diabetes coin (which kind of don't have one specific owner) or if the traveller or cache in question belongs to a cacher who is no longer active.

Let her know about it - she has been more that happy to help out any time I have contacted her about TB or geocoin issues.

Annie

April 14, 2009

It seems that many cache owners don't know that they can mark trackables as missing. I suspect that if this became common knowledge, this issue would decline.

Obviously TB owners don't know that they can mark it missing either. I just visited a cache that has a TB that hasn't been seen in a year. I emailed the TB owner letting them know it's not there. Previous finders evidently also emailed them. The TB owner informed me that the "cacher owner has to mark it missing". Not so! I had a TB that was put into a cache that was then muggled. It's pretty obvious I'll never see that TB again. Cache owner didn't mark my TB (or the other 2 in the cache when it went missing) as missing. So I gave it a month and then I marked it missing. I guess lots of folks don't know how the "missing" thing works.

5.2k · April 14, 2009

I guess lots of folks don't know how the "missing" thing works.

In addition to not knowing how it works to mark a bug missing, a lot of people don't realize that marking a bug missing is not necessarily permanent. If someone finds the bug later, they can just "grab" it like they normally would, and continue it's travels as if nothing happened.

Maybe this should be a subject for the weekly mailer.

8.6k · April 14, 2009

as a cache owner i don't consider it my responsibility to babysit TBs. not my problem.

as a TB owner, i know that several of mine have reappeared after being gone more than three years.

as a cache finder, i don't expect the TB inventory of a cache to be accurate.

i have a complete failure to care.

But... really... as you have "a complete failure to care" isn't that a total success... in a way?

OT, I like the idea of having some way that I could mark a TB as missing from caches other than my own. I just wonder whether some cachers might get a bit carried away with such awesome powers and might be too quick off the mark in banishing an absent TB to the limbo of Unknown Location.

Maybe there would have to be some sort of "time period" involved? e.g. One would only be able to mark the TB as missing from the cache if it had been static for x weeks.

Hmmmm

Dunno

It's starting to get complicated and it's after midnight here - I'll sleep on it

MrsB

21.9k · April 14, 2009

Maybe this should be a subject for the weekly mailer.

I'm not sure that more publicity will help. It can't hurt, though.

--------------------------------
I. It's Cache Maintenance Time!

--------------------------------

For many of us it is time for seasonal change. Please check to see that your containers are water tight and free from any debris. Performing regular cache maintenance is important in ensuring a great geocaching experience for everyone.

Important Reminders:

- Replace the container if the current one is not holding up to its environment.

- Add a logbook, pencil and pen and trading items as needed.

- If your cache will not be accessible due to seasonal weather conditions, note this on the cache page.

- Verify any travel bugs that are listed in your cache, mark those that have been listed in there for a while but aren't physically there as "missing."

-----------------------------------

I. When Trackable Items Go Missing

-----------------------------------

For various reasons, Travel Bugs or geocoins may be listed as being physically in a geocache when they are not actually there. Sometimes this occurs because a geocacher has not yet made it back to their computer to log their geocache find. In this case, we suggest being patient and giving the geocacher a chance to log the trackable item.

However, if it is known that the trackable item is gone for good, then it is best to remove the listing from the geocache detail page. Both trackable item owners and geocache owners can remove trackable item listings using the following steps:

- Log in to Geocaching.com using your username and password

- Search for the trackable item. You should see the trackable items details page

- Click on the drop-down menu at the bottom of Trackable Items Options

- Select "Mark item missing" and then click "Go"

- Click "Yes" when it asks if you want to mark the item missing

This will update the item as being recently spotted in an "Unknown Location"

Trackable Item listed on a web page but is not there physically.

Sometimes, a Trackable Item has been removed from a cache, but for some reason the finder does not log it. Unfortunately as a result, the Travel Bug or Geocoin icon on the cache page remains there, and geocachers can get frustrated when they arrive at the cache to find it missing.

If you are the owner of the Trackable Item, or the owner of the cache where the Travel Bug is listed, you can mark the bug as missing. This will remove it from the cache, and mark the Travel Bug's as in an "unknown location". Later, if the Travel Bug is found elsewhere, it can be grabbed by the geocacher and placed into the correct location. Mileage will be calculated from it's previous location.

To do this, go to the Trackable Item's page, and choose from among the "Trackable Item Options." If you are the Travel Bug owner, it will say "Recalculate distance". Click on this menu and select "Mark bug missing". If you are the cache owner, the menu will already be on the "Mark bug missing" option. Click the "Go" button, and when the page refreshes, at the top it will ask "Are you sure you want to mark this Travel Bug missing?" Click "Yes" to complete the action.

It is also suggested that you leave a note on the Trackable Item page that it you marked it as missing so when the next person logs it they understand why it wasn't listed in a cache.

If you are not the Trackable Item owner or cache owner, email one of these players and point them to this knowledge base article. As a courtesy, it is nice to email the Travel Bug owner first. If neither player is responsive, notify contact@geocaching.com and they can usually help to remove it from the cache.

Don't despair if a Trackable Item goes missing. In many cases the Travel Bug has been moved to another cache and the last person just didn't know how to log it. Hopefully the next geocacher that finds it will log the find.

The Travel Bug is no longer in [a cache]. How do I remove it?

Occasionally a Travel Bug is picked up out of a cache but for whatever reason the person who picked it up does not log the find. If this happens, users visiting the cache will often let you know that the Travel Bug is no longer there.

As the Travel Bug owner, you have the ability to move your Travel Bug to an unknown location until it is found again. Visit your Travel Bug's listing on Geocaching.com and choose the option to move your Travel Bug to an unknown location. This will not affect your overall travels and distance calculation.

Cache owners also have the ability to move the travel bug listed on their cache page to an unknown location.

As noted in the logs for the cache where it was last dropped, it appears that your trackable has gone missing. I am moving your trackable to an "unknown location." (This option is also available to the cache owner and the owner of a travel bug or geocoin.) If it ever turns up again, the finder can grab it back without affecting the mileage. I am sorry that your trackable has stopped traveling.

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

Edited April 14, 2009 by Keystone

5.2k · April 15, 2009

Sigh. I knew I should have done a search before I said that

You're right. The info is sure out there. We can only wish people would read it.

May 1, 2009

My kids get disappointed with missing items.

Is there any protocol for NON-OWNERS to mark caches, TBs and GCs that have gone inactive?

I have been running into a string of inactive caches and missing inventory items. I prefer not to read the logs before hunting, so as to leave more "mystery" to the hunt. But this is getting frustrating, since I am routinely finding "dead" caches. After breaking down and looking at the log, the last two caches had over a year of DNF listings. similarly, the last few TB/GC gone missing caches were listed at the same cache for over a year, and obviously had not been in residence for quite some time.

If it was just me, I would say whatever, at least I got out to go do something, but I more often than not I am Caching with my kids. They get very disappointed and frustrated with "no show" caches or items. I really like how excited my kids are to go "treasure hunting", but being kids they are prone to unreasonable expectations. I do not want them to get turned off to geocaching just because I take them on too many wild goose chases.

If there is not a system, can we make one?

Can a system be implemented to have non-owners mark things missing? if say 5+ users mark it missing a request to the owner of the cache/item is sent to confirm or deny? If the owner does not respond within a reasonable time frame, the status changes??

22k · May 1, 2009

My kids get disappointed with missing items.

Is there any protocol for NON-OWNERS to mark caches, TBs and GCs that have gone inactive?

I have been running into a string of inactive caches and missing inventory items. I prefer not to read the logs before hunting, so as to leave more "mystery" to the hunt. But this is getting frustrating, since I am routinely finding "dead" caches. After breaking down and looking at the log, the last two caches had over a year of DNF listings. similarly, the last few TB/GC gone missing caches were listed at the same cache for over a year, and obviously had not been in residence for quite some time.

If it was just me, I would say whatever, at least I got out to go do something, but I more often than not I am Caching with my kids. They get very disappointed and frustrated with "no show" caches or items. I really like how excited my kids are to go "treasure hunting", but being kids they are prone to unreasonable expectations. I do not want them to get turned off to geocaching just because I take them on too many wild goose chases.

If there is not a system, can we make one?

Can a system be implemented to have non-owners mark things missing? if say 5+ users mark it missing a request to the owner of the cache/item is sent to confirm or deny? If the owner does not respond within a reasonable time frame, the status changes??

This has been brought up before and it is unlikely that gc.com will allow just anyone to move a bug out of a cache. Too much opprotunity for abuse. The bug owner, cache owner and Groundspeak representatives all have the ability to mark a bug as missing.

As for caches you can use the needs maintenance option. If the cache is beyond repair or is completely missing you can use the needs archived.

TB's that "Need Maintenance" (or "Are Dead, Dead, Dead!")

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