Purchase Decision

[+cacheegolean]

I've saved just enough to purchase the 400t (from Walmart), but am wondering if this is a wise decision. Should I go with the less expensive and highly acclaimed PN-40 instead? I realize that the Garmin has the bells and whistles and the Delorme has the awesome mapping software. I'm just not sure which, as a geocacher, I would value more??? Will I need to spend more to add maps to the 400t? Can anyone help to tilt me one way or the other, I seem hopelessly undecided. Thanks!

[aud78]

Hi,

 

I had the same decision to make 3 weeks ago. I purchased PN-40 and described my experiences in this thread. PN-40 is back in store, I will be getting 400t in couple days.

 

Just that PN-40 didn't work for me does not mean it will not work for you. It's a good unit if you have right expectations.

 

Regards,

 

Aud

[+0newithwild]

ive had my oregon 400t for week now and truly love it,im really glad i spent the extra money .worth every penny.garmin is also great at backing there software updates and units ,u.s. stationed service and repair.i had a garmin vista cx before this oregon 400t and i will always carry a garmin gps.

[+scubahhh]

WHy don' tyou get one of each; use them side-by-side for a few days; and then return the one that YOU think is inferior? Personally I have two Delorme's and love them... but that's just me. I use them almost exclusivey for caching ond other outdoor things (hiking, montain biking, etc.); if I wanted them to help me navigate ont he road or find the closest pizza place, I might not be so enthusiastic. Have fun...

[+Searching_ut]

I don’t own a 400t, so I won’t comment on it. I do however own eTrex c, nuvi’s and host of garmin mapping products, and overall have been pleased with the quality tradeoffs made in producing the maps. I also of course own a PN-40

 

For geocaching, the PN-40 is a functional and useable device, quite competent in my opinion.

 

If you’re under the impression that the TOPO software is awesome though, I’d have to say the correct term is AWFUL. It’s not particularly good for either topo maps or road maps, and there isn’t an option to upgrade as far as street mapping capability. For a subscription fee, you can however download and use some good quality TOPO maps, and you can also download aerial photos, albeit at a considerably lower resolution and detail level than you may have become familiar with in using Google maps. The interface also seems designed to make simple things far more difficult than they need to be.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Searching_ut

[+Rockin Roddy]

I will give my nod to the PN-40! Routing, right in the box, paperless is also right in the box! Gotta love the features, and the price is great as well!! You can also load aerial imagery, sat imagery, NOAA charts and 24k topo with a very cheap $30/yr subscription!

 

I love going out and caching with my PN-40....routes me right to the cache, then gets me right on top of it with the accuracy I see with my PN-40! WAAS has been locking more and more every time I go out, I had full lock all day yesterday and loved it! When the cache is found, I then simply mark it as such, type in a few notes and then on to the next. Come home, hook up and upload all field notes, then log the finds at my own pace. No notes to keep, no papers to jostle with!

 

With the abilities it has now, and the promises we've seen for the future (hopefully very near), I see the PN-40 as an AWESOME GPS!

[+bhorocks]

i had a pn-40 for a week.

I loved it and it was way better than the 60csx that i have but the battery life killed me. I was out riding dirt bikes for a week and regular duracells lasted 45 minutes in the device..

 

now if you spend money on lithium enigizers i was getting 3-4 hours of run time.

 

obvioulsy everyone is going to say rechargables but that still does not negate the fact you will have to carry a lot of batteries around with you if you dont have a power source.

 

Bummer. the unit is one awesome little devie but carrying aroung 5 times more batteries for the features isnt worth it. I am thinking about getting a pn-20 though as i hear the battery life is much better.

little slower but still ahs the same mapping systems availalbe and they are only 130 on walmart.com.

 

like abouce said the caching notes are awesome and blow away the 60csx. so does the maps. just battery is the only thing i did not like.

 

it was a love hate thing.

Edited March 29, 2009 by bhorocks

[+TotemLake]

i had a pn-40 for a week.

I loved it and it was way better than the 60csx that i have but the battery life killed me. I was out riding dirt bikes for a week and regular duracells lasted 45 minutes in the device..

 

now if you spend money on lithium enigizers i was getting 3-4 hours of run time.

 

obvioulsy everyone is going to say rechargables but that still does not negate the fact you will have to carry a lot of batteries around with you if you dont have a power source.

 

Bummer. the unit is one awesome little devie but carrying aroung 5 times more batteries for the features isnt worth it. I am thinking about getting a pn-20 though as i hear the battery life is much better.

little slower but still ahs the same mapping systems availalbe and they are only 130 on walmart.com.

 

like abouce said the caching notes are awesome and blow away the 60csx. so does the maps. just battery is the only thing i did not like.

 

it was a love hate thing.

 

45 minutes on Duracells? I never had that problem and I use Duracells. You might have had a wrong setting on the battery type.

 

With the backlight full bright and on 100% of the time, I can get it to burn through in about 3 hours. I rarely use the backlight at full up. It just isn't needed and I rarely use the backlight in full daylight for general navigation. I can see it perfectly without it. I'll use the backlight only when I need to see some detail just a little bit better and that will usually be about 30% of full brightness.

[+North Fork Seeker]

I have had my PN40 for little better than a month and I love it, had some growing pains with it but nothing major. as for geocaching with it you can't beat it. just my two cents.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

obvioulsy everyone is going to say rechargables but that still does not negate the fact you will have to carry a lot of batteries around with you if you dont have a power source.

 

I'm not sure about everyone, but at least me.

 

Yes, I get 11 hours out of this Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ALT-EN-LLC

He'll have more up for sale this coming week.

 

Now, I certainly agree that if one is considering a four day hike along the PCT, one might feel that lacking. However, if I read the initial post correctly, the OP is stating geocaching as the activity of interest. For geocaching, battery drawdown in my PN-40 has not been a showstopper.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I don’t own a 400t, so I won’t comment on it. ........... I also of course own a PN-40

 

............. The interface also seems designed to make simple things far more difficult than they need to be.

Well, as the OP is asking for advice regarding a 400t as opposed to a PN-40, is it fair for me to ask for some additional explicit definition pertaining to a functional interface which is common to both the 400t and the PN-40? A functional interface necessary for geocaching activities as mentioned in the initial post?

 

Once identified, perhaps then we could point to the particular difficult thing as addressed in the PN-40 Wiki so that the OP may make a more informed judgement:

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/

Edited March 30, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+volosong]

I've saved just enough to purchase the 400t...Should I go with the less expensive and highly acclaimed PN-40 instead?...

 

For me, the decision came down to between the DeLorme PN-40 and Garmin 60CSx or 76CSx. The 60CSx and 76CSx are functionally identical, only difference being the form factor, specifically the placement of the buttons. From experience, I tend to prefer buttons on the bottom of the screen, so I eliminated the 76CSx.

 

I was swayed by the ability to input my own images and satellite data, so purchased the PN-40 several months ago. It's a very nice unit, but what I found is that the screen is really too small to display maps, in a practical sense. My old, tired eyes don't see as well as they used to. Don't know about you, but I need some context into which to put a snippet of a topo sheet or satellite image. The PN-40 is a fabulous device, but in my estimation, not practical to display images.

 

(By the way, I received my new Garmin 60Cx in the mail yesterday. I'll keep both units, (as I teach "Map Interpretation and GPS" at the local community college and need to keep abreast of technology and manufactures UIs and algorithms.))

 

What I have found much more practical is to purchase a copy of TOPO!, published by National Geographic, available on a state-by-state basis, (for the larger states). MSRP is right at a hundred bucks, but several eBay vendors sell it for eighty. Used, you can often find states from between $15 (which I paid for Hawai'i) to about $45, (which I paid for Arizona.) TOPO! for states include five levels of topographical maps, best resolution at the 7.5 minute series (1:24,000). (There is another version that covers the whole country at 1:100,000 resolution, called "Back Roads Explorer". Just under $40 at Costco, when they sold it.)

 

TOPO! has the ability to print out maps in an 8.5 x 11 format, which I've found to have plenty of context and is a convenient size to carry around in the field. For my class field work/experience, I put the maps into a plastic sleeve so they won't get soiled. If you don't have a color laser printer, and if you have the ability to print to a PDF file, you can take that file to Staples and have them print it out for you for about fifty cents.

 

This solution works for me, at least.

[+Rockin Roddy]

For everyone who says the screen is too small, you'll hear another who will be happy to tell you the size is not a problem...I am one such person!! Maybe it's because my eyes are only 45??

 

One thing is a certainty, no GPS will display 8.5"x11"! But I'd rather not have to print all those images and then carry a tube everywhere, fumble for the right image and even worry if my images get wet in the rain! As I've said before, to each his own!!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

For everyone who says the screen is too small, you'll hear another who will be happy to tell you the size is not a problem...I am one such person!! Maybe it's because my eyes are only 45??

 

I can see the screen on my -40 just fine and mine are another 25, RR.

 

Isn't modern optometry wonderful?

[+Maingray]

Here we go again

 

Very GENERAL pros/cons in a nutshell from someone who has used both for caching:

 

OR:

 

Pros: Nice size rugged unit, large screen. Touchscreen is a pro in my book, very intuitive interface for caching. Fully paperless able to either drag and drop gc.com Pocket queries, native GSAk communication or cache-by-cache from gc.com pages. Full cache descriptions of caches plus child waypoint handling. Make comments and upload back at home on gc.com. Active and responsive development team. Very large community of free US and international maps available. Mac versions of all software + maps available. Wireless communication with other ORs or COs. High accuracy. Good battery life.

 

Cons: screen is dull compared to PN-40. Feels a little dumbed down in straight GPS-features compared to PN-40. Beta firmwares often mixed quality. In box basemap is poor, but premium mapping solutions allow this unit to auto-ruote extremely well with huge POI coverage, much like a car nuvi.

 

PN-40:

 

pros: Quality aerial + topo imagery available for a cheap subscription. With a new (unsupported) Beta, fully paperless able to either drag and drop gc.com Pocket queries, via macros or cache-by-cache from gc.com pages. Full cache descriptions of caches. Make comments and upload back at home on gc.com. Active and responsive development team. Routeable basemap included. High accuracy. Orange!

 

Cons: reliability is a big con based on quite a few posts recently. I can now count 9 people in my local area who owned them, but only one now owns due to reliability / battery / useability (to be fair, 5 of those people were before the new geocaching update). Battery life poor out the box. Build quality feels poor. Small screen. If you travel and want the imagery prepare to buy lots of SD cards and time to cut and prep subscription maps. Routeable baemap included is poor for road navigation (topo based inaccuracies and poor POI coverage) and no premium option to improve this. Maps available are limited to USA, unless you want to scan your own and buy a $99 mapping software upgrade. Mac support via Parallels. Topo7 is too central still for it's operation, and it's a wacky program (flame on!). Orange!

 

I went with the OR because I'm a freak who refuses to use a separate car unit for routing, and I felt the paperless mode is more mature than the PN-40. It still feels better using the OR's caching UI...has a few more extras like cache run totals, permanent pointer on a geocaching "dashboard' pointing to the nearest geocacheregardless of where you are navigating to and road to hiking transition is well handled by single click profiles. I also just fell in love with the touch screen, being able to touch a cache on a scrollable map and bring up full cache info was worth the price of admission to me.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Maingray

[+Searching_ut]

I don’t own a 400t, so I won’t comment on it. ........... I also of course own a PN-40

 

............. The interface also seems designed to make simple things far more difficult than they need to be.

Well, as the OP is asking for advice regarding a 400t as opposed to a PN-40, is it fair for me to ask for some additional explicit definition pertaining to a functional interface which is common to both the 400t and the PN-40? A functional interface necessary for geocaching activities as mentioned in the initial post?

 

Once identified, perhaps then we could point to the particular difficult thing as addressed in the PN-40 Wiki so that the OP may make a more informed judgement:

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/

 

Ah, seems I was unclear. The interface to which I was referring was the one in Delormes TOPO software. There are so many mapping products out there, many that will interface with virtually any GPS, except of course the Delorme units. Some, such as TopoFusion, ExpertGPS etc even download all the same sorts of maps available through the subscription service offered by Delorme. Unfortunately, if you own a PN-40, you’re stuck with the delorme software unless you want to download your info from the GPS, convert it, then utilize it in a good program. Many people like to use their GPS units for GeoTagging photos, analyzing tracks, building trail networks, or just simply viewing their tracks on high quality aerial photos, none of which you can do easily if at all with the Delorme TOPO software. Even the stuff you can do is often made more difficult than it needs to be because of layout and design of the software.

 

As for the PN-40 itself, as I said it’s a quite competent unit for geocaching. Myself, I only use a hand held unit for geocaching maybe 2 percent of the time I use it if that much, so geocaching isn’t a particularly strong selling point for me, and I’ll continue using mostly my Garmin units on the trail. My wife however, primarily only uses GPS units in the car, for which we have dedicated units, when running, for which she has a forerunner (With programs like sportstrack those little things are amazing), and for geocaching, which is why I’ll keep the pn-40. She doesn’t really care all that much for the maps while caching, and the paperless caching function is something she really likes.