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Do FTF rules make a cache an unknown?


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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :)

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :)

 

That would be very silly making the seventh person the FTF. If anything they would be the STF (Seventh to Find). Now if you're going to be silly about the FTF, make it the Fifth To Find, at least then the letters match up. :)

 

I don't get the whole FTF races. Some people live for them. I look at it like they are verifying the coords for the rest of us, so give them some credit.

 

So are you going to have a FTF prize that only the seventh or whatever finder will be allowed to take? And if no prize, what's the point of who get's the FTF credit?

 

Steve

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FTF's are a great challange as the above poster as said. I have just done one in the past 36 hours, low and behold the co-ords where out by about 20 metres, Not a lot you say.

 

In the case of this cache it is vital as the cache is designed for people stopping at a train station for a few min, running doing the cache and then getting on the train, 20 metres is a masive difference.

 

FTF's help so much towards the cache owner and other cachers.

 

Doing FTF builds up my confidence in doing night caches, as in this neck of the world caches get published in the evening.

 

Also why delete there logs if they have found the cache, not fair I think

Edited by andyfee
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I don't get the whole FTF races. Some people live for them. I look at it like they are verifying the coords for the rest of us, so give them some credit.

 

So are you going to have a FTF prize that only the seventh or whatever finder will be allowed to take? And if no prize, what's the point of who get's the FTF credit?

 

Steve

 

I actually enjoy the FTF race...If I am racing for a cache I want to find. I no longer race to find a cache that I wouldn't have wanted to find if it weren't for the FTF. It is a fun part of the game. Here, though, we have a cacher taking it WAY, WAY too seriously.

 

The whole point of the random FTF declaration is that there really isn't a point in "claiming" FTF. Finding the cache first is the reward for FTF. That is it. You are simply the first person to find a newly hidden cache.

 

If the FTF Hawk gets the joke and chills out a little, then life is better for new hiders in all the area. If not, then they get upset. Win-win. :)

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I actually enjoy the FTF race...If I am racing for a cache I want to find. I no longer race to find a cache that I wouldn't have wanted to find if it weren't for the FTF. It is a fun part of the game. Here, though, we have a cacher taking it WAY, WAY too seriously.

 

The whole point of the random FTF declaration is that there really isn't a point in "claiming" FTF. Finding the cache first is the reward for FTF. That is it. You are simply the first person to find a newly hidden cache.

 

If the FTF Hawk gets the joke and chills out a little, then life is better for new hiders in all the area. If not, then they get upset. Win-win. :)

 

So you like getting the FTF on caches, but this other cacher keeps beating you to the cache so you want to get them to back off? Is that about right? Have you tried to talk to this other cacher? Ask them to back off a bit and give the rest of you a chance? Or how about making friends with them and maybe going out after the FTF together?

 

I don't see the win-win if they get upset.

 

Steve

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :)

 

I am not really sure what the draw is to being FTF or would drive someone to be "FTF Hawk" or "FTF Hog" but since there have been a couple different threads on this subject I started to think about how I would would combat this situation.

 

If I would place a cache and I knew one of these people were out there waiting to pounce (assuming for a moment that I actually cared)

1. I would place the cache with totally incorrect coordinates.

2. Wait for the Did Not Find responses to come in.

3. Send a personal message to the first person after the FTF Hog(s) stating that the coordinates were incorrect and give them the correct coordinates.

4. Wait for the Found It response to come in then update the coordinates on the site.

5. Pray for forgiveness. Maybe I need to anyway just for making the suggestion. :)

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So you like getting the FTF on caches, but this other cacher keeps beating you to the cache so you want to get them to back off? Is that about right? Have you tried to talk to this other cacher? Ask them to back off a bit and give the rest of you a chance?

Steve

 

"...Want them to back off?" not of the FTFs. The cacher works hard to get there first. I've no problem with that.

 

"Is that about right?" Nope.

 

"Have you tried to talk to this other cacher?" Yes. It was actually cordial and had a very positive outcome.

 

"Ask them to back off and give the rest of you a chance?" Again, no way. Whoever wants to get there first deserves the INTRINSIC feeling of being FTF. Nothing more is promised or suggested in the guidlines. They can have this. I just want to save the truly worthless "I declare myself FTF" log for the seventh hider.

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As a former FTF Hound, I am not sure I would have any interest in seeking out a cache that stated

 

"The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

It's not because I would be afraid of not getting the ftf glory but more because I do not believe in deleting logs of people who have found the cache, for any reason.

 

In my area, we have A LOT of FTF Hounds. The fun in the race for the FTF is in seeing who else is going after it and having the FTF Party at GZ. Its fun to meet other cachers this way. In the area, what has developed from all the FTF Hounds has been some various FTF Hound Cache series. A couple of the different series have the simple 'rule/request' that if you are the FTF on the cache, you must place the next FTF Hound Cache in the series. One of the others has the request that you can only FTF 1 in the series so that others have the chance of finding/hiding. These are more like a 'pay it forward' type thing and have all had some interesting twists to them.

 

Good luck with your problem but maybe look at some alternative ways to solve it.

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1. I would place the cache with totally incorrect coordinates.

 

 

When I was actually upset with the cacher after their snarky posts on new cachers listing pages, I considered listing the cache, but not placing it until after their DNF. This would be unfair to any other cachers who looked for it, though. I don't mind being a pain, but I don't want to be deceitful.

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"...Want them to back off?" not of the FTFs. The cacher works hard to get there first. I've no problem with that.

 

"Is that about right?" Nope.

 

"Have you tried to talk to this other cacher?" Yes. It was actually cordial and had a very positive outcome.

 

"Ask them to back off and give the rest of you a chance?" Again, no way. Whoever wants to get there first deserves the INTRINSIC feeling of being FTF. Nothing more is promised or suggested in the guidlines. They can have this. I just want to save the truly worthless "I declare myself FTF" log for the seventh hider.

Ok, I guess I completely misunderstand what you are trying to achieve. If you just want to joke about who has FTF bragging rights, I revert back to the Fifth To Find so the letters match up. :)

 

Steve

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[1st part of post removed, not relevant]

 

My interpretation of the guidelines is that it will make this cache an unknown cache due to the ALR, but this is between you and your reviewer.

 

Personally I don't think it is worth the outcry it will raise.

Edited by Chrysalides
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I keep forgetting to mention... As far as deleting logs of legit finds, if you say in the cache page that the seventh person gets to claim FTF and someone else claims it, I would suggest sending them an email requesting they change their log. If, after a few days, they don't change it, you would be fine with deleting their log and sending them an email explaining that they can re-log it without the FTF claim.

 

All in all I think the whole thing is pretty silly. The thought keeps coming up that the FTF hawk would just watch the listing until 6 people find it and then swoop in and find it as the seventh and then still be the official FTF. Then the jokes on you.

 

Steve

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1. I would place the cache with totally incorrect coordinates.

 

 

When I was actually upset with the cacher after their snarky posts on new cachers listing pages, I considered listing the cache, but not placing it until after their DNF. This would be unfair to any other cachers who looked for it, though. I don't mind being a pain, but I don't want to be deceitful.

 

If you place it with incorrect coordinates it would be placed but would not be found by the going to the coordinates to grab an easy FTF. Keep it within 100 yards which takes us back to this post.

 

I don't get the whole FTF races. Some people live for them. I look at it like they are verifying the coords for the rest of us, so give them some credit.

 

 

Since one of the purposes of FTF is to verify coordinates my solution looks to be valid even though it’s bit devious.

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :)

 

And how would you know who the seventh to find the cache was? By the logs on the cache page? Bzzzzt! wrong answer.

 

Jim

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People that race for FTF are playing their part of the game. I don't think it is necessary to target certain players because they have honed a certain part of the game.

 

In order to get a FTF and log it within 1 hour is pretty impressive. You have to be ready to hunt a cache at any time. Some have a bag ready to go along with a GPS hooked to the computer at the ready.

 

Its your cache so you get to make it the way that you want to. You can make the ALR anything you like. Just like folks can choose to not hunt any cache they feel is not in their style.

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If you list it with intentionally wrong coordinates you have lied to your reviewer and they don't like it when you lie to them.

 

The first person to find the cache container is the first to find no matter what you call it. The Seventh is not the First.

 

As the cache owner you can delete logs if they are bogus. Deleting a log like this will get the log reinstated and locked so you can not delete it. Your authority to delete logs is not 100%

 

I doubt any reviewer would publish a cache with a silly ALR like this. Adding it after the cache is published will again not be a good idea. It is another lie to the reviewer.

 

Since it is an ALR its an unknown type.

 

Don't do it, its not worth it. why hide a cache with, in your words, a "silly, arbitrary FTF rule"?

 

People get a lot of FTF's because they work at it. Therefore they deserve it. If someone wants to get the FTF they have to work harder than the next person.

 

By the way. submitting a cache page without the cache in place is also against the guidelines and again lying to the reviewer. You don't want to see them angry, you wont like your reviewer when he is angry.

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This FTF discussion is about redefining what FTF really is... and because FTF is by definition the first to find it can not be changed... there can be no other definition.

 

Now... if you want to reward others... there are a couple of other creative ways:

 

1. Put in description to e-mail you for a secondary cache you have placed in the vicinity with additional prizes. This will give you the option to e-mail back the coordinates to those you see as "deserving" in the order you decide.

 

2. Probably the best solution would be to place a secondary cache that isn't listed... same as above but not in cache description of the original. When the original is found you would have the option of e-mailing back to those you want the coordinates of the secondary hide. This has other good points....first of all you could put prizes in it for certain geocachers to find specifically.... and second, you could discontinue it at any time... and third... if you choose to you could move it each time it was discovered so there would be no repeat findings of previous cachers.

 

Hope this helps... the definition of FTF can't be changed, but alternative rewards can be instituted.

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this thread has been a real learning experience for me. lots of good advice. one thing i was wondering was why don't more people around the area get as prepared as the ftf hawk and beat him to it?

Because we don't care...

Because it's not worth it...

Because we're asleep...

Because we're at work...

Because...

 

For me, if I get a FTF...WooHoo for me...if not, who cares?

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I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I realize that FTFs are outside the 'rules and guidlines' of geocaching. This would lead me to believe that anything to do with claiming FTFs would have no bearing on whether a cache is Traditional or ALR.

 

However, not being an expert on ALR caches, I would wonder if a requirement limiting people from logging in a certain manner would make it an ALR.

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I am not really sure what the draw is to being FTF or would drive someone to be "FTF Hawk" or "FTF Hog" but since there have been a couple different threads on this subject I started to think about how I would would combat this situation.

 

You may not see the draw to being FTF, but I'm not really sure why you would want to 'combat' the situation?

 

I personally don't see the draw to ballroom dancing, but I'm not going to show up at dance halls and roll marbles on the floor.

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You may not see the draw to being FTF, but I'm not really sure why you would want to 'combat' the situation?

I personally don't see the draw to ballroom dancing, but I'm not going to show up at dance halls and roll marbles on the floor.

 

Awww but that could be a fun video :laughing:

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :laughing:

 

While your premise sounds childish to me, this would technically be an ALR if you carried through on it. I think you should get over the FTF-hog concept and just go plant more difficult caches. Yes, take a different approach.

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :laughing:

There is no ALR on this cache. Anybody can log it and find it. You have a FTF rule that only kicks in, in specific circumstances.

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this thread has been a real learning experience for me. lots of good advice. one thing i was wondering was why don't more people around the area get as prepared as the ftf hawk and beat him to it?

Because we don't care...

Because it's not worth it...

Because we're asleep...

Because we're at work...

Because...

 

For me, if I get a FTF...WooHoo for me...if not, who cares?

 

i feel the same way. maybe i didn't communicate well, but what i was trying to say is if op is concerned about other people in the area getting ftf, it's really on those people to do what they need to do to get ftf.

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Yet another reason I stopped logging my finds online.

 

Well, I haven't gone that far yet, but I'm glad I abandoned any attempt to play the "FTF game" years ago. :laughing: Which it looks some people need to realize is only played by a tiny portion of the most active and competitive cachers in their area. Most Geocachers couldn't care less.

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :laughing:

A relevant quote:

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.

Abraham Lincoln

FTF = FTF no matter what someone wants to call it.

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Sounds like a pretty "snarky" idea, if you ask me. It would immediately go on my ignore list (which currently is empty). There is only one FTF... and that's the person that first finds it.

 

Yes, I'm sure that it would have to be considered an ALR until the 7th person found it, at which time it would no longer be an ALR and you'd have to change it to a regular. But since you can't change the type of cache, you'd then have to archive it and create a new one. The guidelines state that a cache should be expected to have a reasonably long life, and I doubt that seven finds would be considered reasonable.

 

My two cents.

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :rolleyes:

 

Rather than come up with a goofy "7th to find = FTF" rule, do something more fun the like a FTF Hoax.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...mp;#entry761580

 

Team up with the other locals, and set-up the FTF Hog. :laughing:

Edited by Kit Fox
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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :laughing:

I'm sorry to be snarky, but that's just ????. The first person to find the cache is the first person to find the cache. If others want to be first they will do the work it takes.

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What does ALR mean. I have never heard that before. I gave up tring for FTFs. We have too many retired cachers around here that get them early in the morning.

 

I may be wrong but I believe it means - Additional Logging Requirement

 

Thanks,

I guess we don't have many of those in my area. I have never seen one.

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I don't get the whole FTF races. Some people live for them. I look at it like they are verifying the coords for the rest of us, so give them some credit.

 

So are you going to have a FTF prize that only the seventh or whatever finder will be allowed to take? And if no prize, what's the point of who get's the FTF credit?

 

Steve

 

I actually enjoy the FTF race...If I am racing for a cache I want to find. I no longer race to find a cache that I wouldn't have wanted to find if it weren't for the FTF. It is a fun part of the game. Here, though, we have a cacher taking it WAY, WAY too seriously.

 

The whole point of the random FTF declaration is that there really isn't a point in "claiming" FTF. Finding the cache first is the reward for FTF. That is it. You are simply the first person to find a newly hidden cache.

 

If the FTF Hawk gets the joke and chills out a little, then life is better for new hiders in all the area. If not, then they get upset. Win-win. :laughing:

 

Just curious. How does having the same guy in an area, finding all of the caches first, make life bad for the cache hiders?

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Just curious. How does having the same guy in an area, finding all of the caches first, make life bad for the cache hiders?

I don't know the particulars of this case, but in general it can be very annoying to have a cacher who continually posts "nyah, nyah I was FTF woo hoo" logs. Not having to read such logs might well be interpreted as making life better; whether or not you buy into the whole FTF thing, the logs are obnoxious.

 

In my area, we had a couple of cachers who had public "FTF" bookmark lists that they used for all their FTFs. Less obnoxious, but still pretty childish, as nobody else really needs to see your FTF list on the cache pages.

 

In general, the less "in your face" behaviour there is in an area, the nicer geocaching is for everyone.

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There is a new FTF Hawk in my area who has gotten pretty snarky about two caches and rules surrounding "claiming" FTF - specifically claiming it on the cache listing page. Between this and the recent FTF Hog thread here, I want to place an homage cache with arbitrary FTF rule. Something along the lines of "The seventh person to find the cache shall be declared the official FTF. Others claiming FTF shall have logs deleted."

 

Now for my question. Would this silly, arbitrary FTF rule make this an ALR cache and require listing as an unknown cache?

 

I would rather hide it as a traditional cache, but I thought I would get some input. If Keystone answers, all the better, since he is my reviewer. :ph34r:

 

There has been quite a bit of thoughtful input into this thread. Let us know when you place the cache and if the suspected FTF hawk found it or if you were able to come up with a clever way to let someone else get the FTF.

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I do not really care about FTF, but I have placed some caches to prevent FTF hounds from getting them.

 

Put in an ALR that the FTF must be someone with a 5 year old child on the Team, or a Team with 3 generations in it, or someone with less than 10 FTFs, etc. Ask for a photo.

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Going for FTF is a personal choice and everyone is different.

 

We have instant text notifications to our cell and a new one came in the moment I was taking diner off the grill. We made the PERSONAL choice to let dinner get cold and go for FTF and we got it 18 minutes after the cache was published. Does that make us a FTF 'hound' - 'hawk' etc? I couldn't care.

 

Why punish the people who decide to drop everything and go after a FTF. We got FTF and ate a cold dinner. The second person probably had a nice meal before they left and was there after us - Our choice - Their choice.

 

Edit - The real joy of a FTF is seeing the cache just as the CO intended it. Before it touched by anyone else.

Edited by WatchDog2020
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Going for FTF is a personal choice and everyone is different.

 

We have instant text notifications to our cell and a new one came in the moment I was taking diner off the grill. We made the PERSONAL choice to let dinner get cold and go for FTF and we got it 18 minutes after the cache was published. Does that make us a FTF 'hound' - 'hawk' etc? I couldn't care.

 

Why punish the people who decide to drop everything and go after a FTF. We got FTF and ate a cold dinner. The second person probably had a nice meal before they left and was there after us - Our choice - Their choice.

 

Edit - The real joy of a FTF is seeing the cache just as the CO intended it. Before it touched by anyone else.

 

As an FTF seeker do you have any competition in your area? Have you ever come up on a new cache only to find that it was already found a few minutes earlier or the FTF was still there logging the first find?

 

I am new to geocaching and havent found any incentive to seek out FTF's but who knows what will happen in the furure. My kids want to place some caches in the near future so I need to start thinking about what to place inside as an FTF prize. Any Suggestions?

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Thanks to Michael, Cedar Grove Seekers, Bflentje, and Renegade Knight for answering the question.

 

I didn't want to post this in the FTF Hog thread because I am all for FTF hogs. The FTF provides competitition for those who like it. It is part of what I love about geocaching. It is a different game for each player. The problem (poorly stated) in this case is that the person racing for FTFs is creating FTF rules. Two caches were published in the past couple weeks by very new cachers. The first had incorrect coordinates. While this is frustrating as a cacher, it is almost par for the course for new hiders. The FTF Hawk spent hours overnight looking for the cache and posted a DNF - as did several other cachers. When someone widened the search radius and found the darned thing (I think they said the coordinates were 1600' off), the FTF Hawk posted a note - "Not Happy" and added a picture to the cache listing gallery that was a screenshot of the listing page with a giant arrow pointing to the "ignore" link. The cache page is simply not the place to spew vitriol (That's what the forums are for :mellow: ). The second listing was again a hide by a new cacher. The same Hawk posted a Found Log saying that they found the cache, but that the log had been found the day before the listing was published. The log went on to say how you are not allowed to give out coordinates before the listing is published and that the owner was not being fair...and said that they were "claiming" FTF. This is what infuriated me. Two new hiders being bullied by an "experienced" cacher with lots of finds since they joined late last year. The publicly embarassed owner posted a note that they wanted to show a neighbor what geocaching was so they gave the neighbor their GPSr after hiding the cache and that was who signed the log.

 

This all connects to this thread because the "Seventh to Find shall Claim FTF" is as absurd as the Hawk's rules. I wanted to capture that absurdity and memorialize it in a cache. Unfortunately, absurdity is difficult to convey in a listing page. I think that it would indeed be an unknown cache because of the ALR, but I agree with Michael that it would probably not be published - especially because aside from the first log and the seventh, there really wouldn't be any ALR.

 

Anyway, like I posted earlier, I have had private communication with the Hawk and we had a good dialog with a good outcome (all the offending logs are gone or edited, except for the screenshot with the ignore arrow). I'll leave it at that and get back to my version of Geocaching. For the record, my version is finding non-micro traditional geocaches whenever time allows. I had to give up on FTF racing when my second child was born. Dropping everything to race out to a cache isn't a priority right now. In another twenty years or so, though, whoever the FTF Hogs/Hawks are had better watch out. If my knees hold up, I'll give them a run for their money then.

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Sounds like you have a good resolution, but for the record ...

 

It's an ALR. Saying "you must not do/write this" is just as much an ALR as saying "you must do/write this".

 

If you want FTF rules, you'll have to get them somewhere other than geocaching.com. gc.com does not recognize First To Find. FTF is purely a self-claimed honor. Every single finder could claim FTF without any infringement on gc.com rules.

 

Truly invective language in a log is valid grounds to delete the log. Saying "I'm not happy and I'm ignoring your caches" is not.

 

You can write to first-time hiders after the Hawk posts something offensive (or even upon receiving notice of the hide), telling them that the Hawk's behavior offends you and most other cachers in the area so don't take it personally. (Note that I'm using "the Hawk" to refer to this specific person, who apparently has offended people in various ways, not to refer to FTF hounds in general.)

 

You can say that you will recognize the Fifth To Find as FTF in the description, and do it. This could still be a traditional. You could recognize 2 through 10 but not #1. You could recognize every finder as FTF, in random order. Etc.

 

Personally, FTF isn't worth the trouble unless it's gone unfound for at least two weeks (meaning, usually, a serious hike). But that's just me.

 

Edward

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