Power trails

[+keehotee]

I'm sure I've read in here over the past year that power trails were being discouraged by TPTB?

 

I don't know if this is a local thing, or whether it's happening nationally - but in the past month or so at least three of these horrible strings of micros have sprung up east of here (Bristol). Is this really the way caching is heading :)

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhh

[+Mad H@ter]

Great stuff, lets have more around Bristol

[+keehotee]

Great stuff, lets have more around Bristol

 

You'll be lucky - you'll struggle to find anywhere around here that isn't already too close to another micro

[+currykev]

I was actually looking at the cache map for Bristol last night.

I actually thought it was lacking a decent sized circuit of caches.

[+Mad H@ter]

I was actually looking at the cache map for Bristol last night.

I actually thought it was lacking a decent sized circuit of caches.

Have to say i was thinking much the same.

 

The problem here is some people like complex puzzles that require membership of Mensa, others like cache'n'dashes where you don't have to get out of the car, others like a nice trail that takes you on a circular walk around a nice piece of countryside, etc etc. You are never going to please everyone, so as long as there is choice I am happy .

[+keehotee]

I was actually looking at the cache map for Bristol last night.

I actually thought it was lacking a decent sized circuit of caches.

 

It's definitely lacking a circuit of decent sized caches.....

[+currykev]

I was actually looking at the cache map for Bristol last night.

I actually thought it was lacking a decent sized circuit of caches.

 

It's definitely lacking a circuit of decent sized caches.....

 

...that's 4 months before the Mega to go hide em.

[+*mouse*]

...that's 4 months before the Mega to go hide em.

 

Oh we are already, don't worry! Keehotee put out a 50 litre cache just a few weeks ago!!

 

Trouble is that film pots are being used around here when something far more original could be hidden instead. I don't have a problem with micros, they obviously have their place and I've found some fab micro hides over the years, but recently it seems that people are obsessed with chucking out power trials of 20+ film pots.

It demonstrates a complete lack of imagination. People just don't seem to want to make the effort with they're cache hides anymore

It's such a shame, because with a tiny bit more imagination they could turn a mediocre series into something really fab.

[+Mad H@ter]

Trouble is that film pots are being used around here when something far more original could be hidden instead. I don't have a problem with micros, they obviously have their place and I've found some fab micro hides over the years, but recently it seems that people are obsessed with chucking out power trials of 20+ film pots.

It demonstrates a complete lack of imagination. People just don't seem to want to make the effort with they're cache hides anymore

It's such a shame, because with a tiny bit more imagination they could turn a mediocre series into something really fab.

Yes, I have to say that we were rather disappointed by some of the caches we found whilst house hunting earlier in the year. But don't fear, we have a BIG box of ammo cans and other similar sized containers to distribute around Bristol in the hopefully not too distant future , solicitors & estate agents allowing .

[+keehotee]

Trouble is that film pots are being used around here when something far more original could be hidden instead. I don't have a problem with micros, they obviously have their place and I've found some fab micro hides over the years, but recently it seems that people are obsessed with chucking out power trials of 20+ film pots.

It demonstrates a complete lack of imagination. People just don't seem to want to make the effort with they're cache hides anymore

It's such a shame, because with a tiny bit more imagination they could turn a mediocre series into something really fab.

Yes, I have to say that we were rather disappointed by some of the caches we found whilst house hunting earlier in the year. But don't fear, we have a BIG box of ammo cans and other similar sized containers to distribute around Bristol in the hopefully not too distant future , solicitors & estate agents allowing .

 

Bring 'em on, John....bring 'em on

[+LinseyG]

Having just done a load of circular walks over in Norfolk - Lorraine and I were discussing this as we were walking.

 

Most of them were a mix of micro and full size - which worked for us. There were a couple of "proper" caches on the circuit to drop bugs and things in,

 

The way they had been laid out was really nice as the micro's were all at points where the trail changed direction.

 

Just our 2p.

[+mumbo jumbo]

The first power trail I did was the Brummie Cut canal series. 26 caches in 6.5 miles. I did it by bike but without the hints. 15 finds; 11 DNFs. Sort of fun. The next one was with the family. 14 caches in 4 miles. Lovely countryside but the caches became a problem - stopping all the time to look for caches, sign the log, do swaps, rehide the box etc. We ended up missing out the last 4 or 5 caches just to get some continuity into the walking. At about the same time a new (hintless) series was published very close to home - 19 caches in 3 miles and all within 2 miles of my home co-ords. I called it carpet bombing and deliberately avoided the series for a couple of months. I've now had a go and confess to thoroughly enjoying the series - some of the best hides I've seen in a while.

 

Overall I'm not a fan of power trails but I suppose they have their place. But a trail of not-too-close-together well conceived and executed hides would be a pleasure.

 

mj

[+Yorkie30]

I have done a few of these walks and really enjoyed them but the ones I have done are mainly a mix of micros and small or regular size containers. Some of the micros have been very well hidden and even turned into fun items, I did one that was stuck inside a plastic pigeon and hung in a tree.

I also have to admit that I have done a small series of 6 mircos to find a regular size bonus cache but all the caches are hidden around a small village so hiding bigger caches would have been difficult.

Micros are ok if they are done well, but lets not get carried away with another micro hidden in an ivy covered tree in the middle of nowhere.

I am archiving the 1st cache I placed out because I have realised it is not a great hide and I can do much better now I have more experience.

Yorkie30.

P.S Wife hates micros and wears the badge to prove it.

[+SidAndBob]

I'm sure I've read in here over the past year that power trails were being discouraged by TPTB?

I'm amazed this hasn't been brought up earlier.

So what's changed then Groundspeak?

[+mollyjak]

We did the Brummie Cut canal series. 26 caches in 6.5 miles on Thursday and found 23.

I was pleased ( and amazed) that I managed to walk that distance. Would never have done it if it hadn't been for caching and the trail!!! Each one was just a bit further and kept me going. There were a variety of cache containers and some of the hides made me laugh

So I am in favour of them and wish there were a few closer to home. As long as not UP hills

[+Sue and Bernie]

We're not bothered! We've become quite selective these days and wait for areas to "grow" new caches.

 

We then make our own "Power Trails" by going to an area, parking up and then walking or cycling round the caches. We use an Ordnance Survey Explorer maps with the GPS and find our own way about.

 

Last week Sue and I walked 8.5 miles from Sheeringham to Holt and picked up a few caches en route. Our walking/caching companions went home to watch the rugby when we got back to Sheeringham on the Poppy Line Steam Train (and after a bite to eat and a pint). Sue and I sauntered off again for another 4 miles round the local area and found another 4 caches.

 

A cracking full day out on a lovely sunny day, a coastal walk, a train ride, a meal and a drink, lots of time in glorious weather with agreeable company and 6 caches too! This is how we enjoy getting out and about through geocaching. This is our perfect way to enjoy the game, our footpaths and the great outdoor.

 

If others get their fun through "cache 'n dashes", "power trails" or other endless chains of film canisters every 600 yds or so - great! Do it your way and enjoy, that's the key.

 

Right! We're off to Cromer for another day walking about in the sun...

[Deceangi]

I'm sure I've read in here over the past year that power trails were being discouraged by TPTB?

I'm amazed this hasn't been brought up earlier.

So what's changed then Groundspeak?

 

How about this for a challenge, define a accurately and definitive definition of exactly what is a Power Trail! Without resorting to stating a container ever 600ft/183m/0.11 miles (distances are approximate and rounded up/down). And please do not use "I know one when I see one".

 

Also this has to be a accurately and definitive definition, which can be applied anywhere in the world at any time. And is applicable to Urban, Semi Rural, and Open Countryside. Easily understandable and applicable!

[+keehotee]

I didn't think Groundspeak had any hard and fast rules - just guidelines.... and as such wouldn't the identification of a power trail be at the reviewers discretion... especially if 18 caches with a shared title and all on a single 3.5 mile walk are submitted together?

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed.

 

If you want to create a series of caches (sometimes called a "Power Trail"), the reviewer may require you to create a multi-cache, if the waypoints are close together. A series of caches that are generally intended to be found as a group are good candidates for submission as a single multicache.

 

I appreciate that all our reviewers are busy people, and have lives outside of tending to our every cache-setting whim.... so perhaps it's time to modify the wording of the proximity rule if a hard and fast rule is required??

Edited March 29, 2009 by keehotee

[+currykev]

I've just completed the Brummie Cut series (with an average of DNFs) and I can state that I would not have come here if it were just one multi. Canals are the perfect places to "power cache" as invariably they aren't the most idyllic of spots, fro my little experience.

[Deceangi]

I didn't think Groundspeak had any hard and fast rules - just guidelines.... and as such wouldn't the identification of a power trail be at the reviewers discretion... especially if 18 caches with a shared title and all on a single 3.5 mile walk are submitted together?

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed.

 

If you want to create a series of caches (sometimes called a "Power Trail"), the reviewer may require you to create a multi-cache, if the waypoints are close together. A series of caches that are generally intended to be found as a group are good candidates for submission as a single multicache.

 

I appreciate that all our reviewers are busy people, and have lives outside of tending to our every cache-setting whim.... so perhaps it's time to modify the wording of the proximity rule if a hard and fast rule is required??

 

Sorry I didn't make myself clear I wasn't asking for a rule to be defined, but rather a definition of the term Power trail. As just this topic has showed, one persons definition is not the same as another's. So a actual definition gives everyone somewhere to work from in deciding where exceptions should be made.

 

I can guarantee that my definition f the term Power Trail is considerably different than yours. With CurryKev having his own .

 

if the waypoints are close together

 

How about people define a distance(s) and No of caches involved which they consider to be the start of a Power Trail?

 

Personally as long as caches are a mixture of distances, and are all not all 0.11 miles apart. I wont refer to them as a power trail. If asked about this I usually ask for caches to be a mix of around 0.18- 0.25 or greater. I know other cachers/Reviewers have a different opinion.

 

As for copy and paste cache pages, that is something you need to take up with the cache owner directly if your not happy with someone doing this.

[+Chaotica_UK]

...that's 4 months before the Mega to go hide em.

 

Can you imagine the size of the log books needed for 500+ visitors, micro and nano owners would have to stand by their caches with new log rolls at the ready.

 

Your right about there not being too many series / power walks around Bristol or Bath area, Ive been looking for somewhere suitable thats also maintainable for sometime and compared to other nearby counties the number of footpaths/ bridal ways is noticeably less.

 

Mark

[+keehotee]

...that's 4 months before the Mega to go hide em.

 

Your right about there not being too many series / power walks around Bristol or Bath area, Ive been looking for somewhere suitable thats also maintainable for sometime and compared to other nearby counties the number of footpaths/ bridal ways is noticeably less.

 

Mark

This place is fairly local, and looks ideal for nanos, micros, and power trails......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Maple Leaf]

 

... snip

 

Your right about there not being too many series / power walks around Bristol or Bath area, Ive been looking for somewhere suitable thats also maintainable for sometime and compared to other nearby counties the number of footpaths/ bridal ways is noticeably less.

 

Mark

 

So are you the new mystery cacher that has just filled up my inbox with 'a series' of new cache notifications this morning (and keehotee's no doubt )

 

- there is no cache size mentioned, so I hope that aren't all nanos

[+LinseyG]

The thing that worries me is that someone is obviously worried about being lambasted for putting out a circular walk that they feel they have to do it anonymously !

 

So what if sizes are not listed - for us as long as there's at least a couple of reasonably sized containers on the walk I don't mind - it's more for the walk than anything else to us.

 

Lins

[+spannerman]

I haven't done any of the power trails but would be more inclined to do them than drive around in the car all day picking up the same amount of drive by micro/nano caches.

From the ones I have looked at, they follow a circular route of up to 6 miles in open countryside so look quite appealing to me.

I would look on the fact there were a number of micro caches on route to be a bonus to the walk so if the owner could keep them all maintained and in good condition I can't see any problem at all.

[+purple_pineapple]

I haven't done any of the power trails but would be more inclined to do them than drive around in the car all day picking up the same amount of drive by micro/nano caches.

From the ones I have looked at, they follow a circular route of up to 6 miles in open countryside so look quite appealing to me.

I would look on the fact there were a number of micro caches on route to be a bonus to the walk so if the owner could keep them all maintained and in good condition I can't see any problem at all.

 

well said!

 

I always like to see a decent size cache if possible on the circular walks, but if push comes to shove, I'd rather a micro than no cache at all!

[+Amberel]

I'm sure I've read in here over the past year that power trails were being discouraged by TPTB?

I'm amazed this hasn't been brought up earlier.

So what's changed then Groundspeak?

I'm not sure anything has changed, but it has always slightly irked me that Groundspeak should really consider it their role to influence whether or not there should be cache "power trails". As far as I'm concerned, it should be up to the cache setters and finders. If people like them, why should Groundspeak discourage them?

 

I've got a mix of multis and sometimes trads close together. For me they serve different purposes and I decide which is best based on the circumstances. However, the multis get noticeably fewer visits, and it's obvious that more people prefer trads. Why should we make people do something they prefer not to do? I thought we were doing this for enjoyment?

 

Also it's not clear what is the difference between a power trail and a ring of caches. Most people like rings. They are convenient and they usually take you on a decent walk through pleasant surroundings. Why is that bad? Personally I prefer to see the cache density governed by the terrain, rather than it being simply a matter of one every 0.11 miles, and I concur with Deci's preference for an average of about 0.25 mile between caches, but if others prefer them closer then I don't really see why Groundspeak should think it is their business to object.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Mad H@ter]

 

... snip

 

Your right about there not being too many series / power walks around Bristol or Bath area, Ive been looking for somewhere suitable thats also maintainable for sometime and compared to other nearby counties the number of footpaths/ bridal ways is noticeably less.

 

Mark

 

So are you the new mystery cacher that has just filled up my inbox with 'a series' of new cache notifications this morning (and keehotee's no doubt )

 

- there is no cache size mentioned, so I hope that aren't all nanos

Excellent news , perfectly placed for our move some time next month (hopefully ).

[+keehotee]

Grrrrrrr

 

Now I'm going to have to use my day off tomorrow caching just to clear them from my map!

 

Bah...

Humbug........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2009 by keehotee

[+Chaotica_UK]

Any ideas on this mystery cachers identity?

Edited March 31, 2009 by Chaotica_UK

[+Chaotica_UK]

 

... snip

 

Your right about there not being too many series / power walks around Bristol or Bath area, Ive been looking for somewhere suitable thats also maintainable for sometime and compared to other nearby counties the number of footpaths/ bridal ways is noticeably less.

 

Mark

 

So are you the new mystery cacher that has just filled up my inbox with 'a series' of new cache notifications this morning (and keehotee's no doubt )

 

- there is no cache size mentioned, so I hope that aren't all nanos

 

No Im afraid not! But I am going out to maintain a few of my caches which are very close to the path the series takes, just to encourage a few more finds! Ive got a circular walk published that Im planning to extend with different sized containers so I have no problems with them whatsoever. But i can understand why people are frustrated by 21 micros.

 

Mark

Edited March 31, 2009 by Chaotica_UK

[+Maple Leaf]

I don't have a problem with a 'suggested trail' to follow as it saves having to figure out which footpaths to use when in an area that I don't have an OS map for (but I am quite happy just finding one or two caches on that walk - I prefer to admire the surroundings rather than be glued to the GPSr)

 

I would much rather leave the car and go for a circular walk/cycle rather than lots of cache and dashes (I tend to leave those for when I am out in other parts of the country in 'work clothes/shoes).

 

The thing I object to is 'an un-imaginative' cache (usually a 35mm film container) just placed for the sake of placing one .... nothing of interest to see at the location and no view.

 

The new series in Longwell Green looks like it will be a nice walk, but as Linsey & Lorraine say 'why not put it under their own caching profile' rather than create a new mystery cacher account. And why not mention cache size? - I am more likely to go for caches that are small/regular/large - so that I can move TBs/GCs. Although saying that, there are some good/well disguised micros around.

[+*mouse*]

And why not mention cache size? - I am more likely to go for caches that are small/regular/large - so that I can move TBs/GCs.

You've answered this one yourself Jen! Bar one, every single one of these in this series is a micro or nano and the majority are film pots.

 

We did this series this morning as we didn't feel it would be fair to criticise power trails without experiencing them first. The walk was nice, but i'm sad to say that the caches themselves did nothing to add to the walk or pursuade me that power trails are of any value whatsoever. Three of them were even hidden in dry stone walls.

Every single location without exception could have accommodated something far more original or bigger.

It's a shame - there is so much mining and local history here that could have been used to develop a fab series. An opportunity sadly missed.

 

We made a diversion off the route to find Chaotica's traditional cache and it was by far and away the best of the day.

Edited April 1, 2009 by *mouse*

[+keehotee]

It's not very fair of me to single out any particular trail - but as this is the only one I've actually done......

 

In it's favour, the 9 mile walk was fantastic, and took in sections of the river Avon, nature reserves, dry stone walls, and views a'plenty - all of them filled to some degree with 35mm film pots (and a couple of magnetic nanos and some funny tube things).

 

But given that that the walk took in the ruins of one of Bristol's largest collierys, Hanham Lock and weir, and some beautiful local countryside, I can't help but think that so much more than a series of randomly placed cut'n'paste micros could have been made of the area.

[+Fuchsiamagic]

A proposal - how about the Ignore List being able to remove the icons from the map as well? That would sort it out!

[+Amberel]

It's not very fair of me to single out any particular trail - but as this is the only one I've actually done......

 

In it's favour, the 9 mile walk was fantastic, and took in sections of the river Avon, nature reserves, dry stone walls, and views a'plenty - all of them filled to some degree with 35mm film pots (and a couple of magnetic nanos and some funny tube things).

 

But given that that the walk took in the ruins of one of Bristol's largest collierys, Hanham Lock and weir, and some beautiful local countryside, I can't help but think that so much more than a series of randomly placed cut'n'paste micros could have been made of the area.

To be fair, there are several factors involved here. I've just set a ring of 16, of which half are micros. Generally the micros are set where I couldn't find places for a larger cache, and I've tried to be a bit variable with the hides and the terrain. But I started out with a great sackful of regular and small caches, as much as I could carry, and had used them all up before I got to the end. Had I been armed with more large caches I would have set a regular for the last one instead of using the only micro I had left . And I would have set one more that I just didn't have anything left for at all. And it took a lot of organising to get together all the full size caches before I started, cover them in duct tape, fill them with goodies, etc. And filling up that number of regular caches isn't that easy or cheap. And this isn't a large ring at all by current standards.

 

The other thing to consider is that there are different reasons for placing caches. Some people are mainly concerned with the walk on cache rings and don't mind much what the caches are like. I have to say that on most of the rings I've done there is a tendency for the caches to be rather plain and "samey", and often trivially easy to find, but I have enjoyed them all because of the walks they've taken me on. I have sometimes wished that the caches could have been a bit more inventive, but the people I've been with don't seem to mind at all.

 

So to sum it up, I do like rings, and it seems large numbers of people do, but I maybe look to get something different out of it than when I'm doing one or two individual caches, i.e. the route becomes more important than the caches themselves.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+keehotee]

To be fair, there are several factors involved here. I've just set a ring of 16, of which half are micros. Generally the micros are set where I couldn't find places for a larger cache, and I've tried to be a bit variable with the hides and the terrain. But I started out with a great sackful of regular and small caches, as much as I could carry, and had used them all up before I got to the end. Had I been armed with more large caches I would have set a regular for the last one instead of using the only micro I had left . And I would have set one more that I just didn't have anything left for at all. And it took a lot of organising to get together all the full size caches before I started, cover them in duct tape, fill them with goodies, etc. And filling up that number of regular caches isn't that easy or cheap. And this isn't a large ring at all by current standards.

 

The other thing to consider is that there are different reasons for placing caches. Some people are mainly concerned with the walk on cache rings and don't mind much what the caches are like. I have to say that on most of the rings I've done there is a tendency for the caches to be rather plain and "samey", and often trivially easy to find, but I have enjoyed them all because of the walks they've taken me on. I have sometimes wished that the caches could have been a bit more inventive, but the people I've been with don't seem to mind at all.

 

So to sum it up, I do like rings, and it seems large numbers of people do, but I maybe look to get something different out of it than when I'm doing one or two individual caches, i.e. the route becomes more important than the caches themselves.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

But the walk would have been exactly the same whether there were 24 micros, or 4 regular, well hidden caches with a little thought and planning behind them on it.

If people will only walk further than a layby if they think they're going to seriously up their numbers then more fool them.

Edited April 1, 2009 by keehotee

[+Amberel]

But the walk would have been exactly the same whether there were 24 micros, or 4 regular, well hidden caches with a little thought and planning behind them on it.

If people will only walk further than a layby if they think they're going to seriously up their numbers then more fool them.

But some people enjoy finding 24 micros more than 4 regular caches. That doesn't make them fools, it just means they enjoy different things to you, doesn't it?

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Fuchsiamagic]

But the walk would have been exactly the same whether there were 24 micros, or 4 regular, well hidden caches with a little thought and planning behind them on it.

If people will only walk further than a layby if they think they're going to seriously up their numbers then more fool them.

But some people enjoy finding 24 micros more than 4 regular caches. That doesn't make them fools, it just means they enjoy different things to you, doesn't it?

 

Rgds, Andy

Think about it this way. A friend asks you what geocaching is all about. You either explain how we get to search for hidden boxes out in the wild using the latest GPS technology and which have "treasure" in for the kids along with tagged toys and coins which travel all over the world and can be tracked on a map on the Internet. Stories of our search are written in a log for others to enjoy reading.

 

OR

 

You can tell them that we go searching for film-pots which have been thrown in a hedge somewhere and we sign a piece of paper to say we have done so.

 

It's your choice alright!

[+keehotee]

But the walk would have been exactly the same whether there were 24 micros, or 4 regular, well hidden caches with a little thought and planning behind them on it.

If people will only walk further than a layby if they think they're going to seriously up their numbers then more fool them.

But some people enjoy finding 24 micros more than 4 regular caches. That doesn't make them fools, it just means they enjoy different things to you, doesn't it?

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Very true.

But the point I was trying to make was that some people would only walk any distance if there were 24 micros, and would miss out on a lot if the numbers weren't there.

 

Each to their own....

[+Amberel]

Think about it this way. A friend asks you what geocaching is all about. You either explain how we get to search for hidden boxes out in the wild using the latest GPS technology and which have "treasure" in for the kids along with tagged toys and coins which travel all over the world and can be tracked on a map on the Internet. Stories of our search are written in a log for others to enjoy reading.

 

OR

 

You can tell them that we go searching for film-pots which have been thrown in a hedge somewhere and we sign a piece of paper to say we have done so.

 

It's your choice alright!

Surely what you tell them is what you actually do? If the 24 micros in a hedge is what you like doing best, then why not tell them?

 

My posts might suggest that my own preference is for the 24 micros in a hedge, but this isn't so. All I was suggesting was that if people go for the 24 micros in a hedge, knowing it is 24 micros in a hedge, then it suggests that's what they prefer. It doesn't show that they are fools, or that they are necessarily missing anything, it just shows us that it's probably what they enjoy doing most. It may not be the same as what we enjoy most, but it makes sense for them to do what they enjoy and not what someone else enjoys.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+tteggod trackers]

I have done a few of these walks and really enjoyed them but the ones I have done are mainly a mix of micros and small or regular size containers. Some of the micros have been very well hidden and even turned into fun items, I did one that was stuck inside a plastic pigeon and hung in a tree.

 

Actually without being pedantic its a magpie!! Glad you enjoyed the fun!

[+Yorkie30]

I have done a few of these walks and really enjoyed them but the ones I have done are mainly a mix of micros and small or regular size containers. Some of the micros have been very well hidden and even turned into fun items, I did one that was stuck inside a plastic pigeon and hung in a tree.

 

Actually without being pedantic its a magpie!! Glad you enjoyed the fun!

 

Sorry TT my mistake, great fun though all the same.