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Placing a GeoCache up a tree


SamShelton
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I'm thinking of placing a cache up a tree, there are a few good climbing trees near where I live.

 

I was wondering, would it pass the review thingy? I mean, would the reviewer think it was dangerous to climb a tree and archive it or something?

 

I've had to lift my buddy up so he could look in caches, and put my hands in all sorts of dubious and dangerous places to retrieve caches before. So, does climbing trees constitute 'dangerous'?

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I'm thinking of placing a cache up a tree, there are a few good climbing trees near where I live.

 

I was wondering, would it pass the review thingy? I mean, would the reviewer think it was dangerous to climb a tree and archive it or something?

 

I've had to lift my buddy up so he could look in caches, and put my hands in all sorts of dubious and dangerous places to retrieve caches before. So, does climbing trees constitute 'dangerous'?

 

You must be fairly new to the sport. There are many very extreme caches around -- that require water crossings, climbing gear, etc... Just look up the caches in your area and find one that has a 5 for terrain and go check it out.

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I'm thinking of placing a cache up a tree, there are a few good climbing trees near where I live.

 

I was wondering, would it pass the review thingy? I mean, would the reviewer think it was dangerous to climb a tree and archive it or something?

 

I've had to lift my buddy up so he could look in caches, and put my hands in all sorts of dubious and dangerous places to retrieve caches before. So, does climbing trees constitute 'dangerous'?

 

There are many caches that are considered dangerous. Be sure to properly rate the terrain and difficulty rating, and find a spot where geocaching is allowed. Danger factor provided it is properly detailed in your cache page narrative, should not be an issue.

 

Here is a video made of my tree cache.

 

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I'm thinking of placing a cache up a tree, there are a few good climbing trees near where I live.

 

I was wondering, would it pass the review thingy? I mean, would the reviewer think it was dangerous to climb a tree and archive it or something?

 

I've had to lift my buddy up so he could look in caches, and put my hands in all sorts of dubious and dangerous places to retrieve caches before. So, does climbing trees constitute 'dangerous'?

There are actually a lot of caches high up in trees that even require special climbing equipment.

Just remember to mark the terrain & difficulty ratings properly.

It would also be a good idea to remind cachers they are hunting at their own risk and to keep safety in mind.

 

Here's a link for a previous tree climbing thread.

tree climbing

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There was a local cacher that placed one 20+ feet up a tree. It would have been awesome except that it was in a cemetery by headstones. I can imagine trying to explain that one to the sheriff driving by. I would have loved to have done it too!

 

Yeah, but did he have permission? Just kidding. :)

 

There are several tree climbing caches in my area, all by three different people, I think. They generally all go on my ignore list. I wasn't actually that bad of a tree climber as a child, but not as a 45 yr. old with hip bursitis.

 

But yeah, they get approved no problem, and the first sentence in the Geocaching.com disclaimer (linked to at the top of every cache listing) is this: "Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache."

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I couldn't climb a tree to save my life, so not a fan of "evil monkey" caches. Other folks can't get enough. I think as long as the terrain rating is set correctly, the seeker is responsible for staying safe and knowing limitations.

 

A classic in these parts is "Der Schlechte Affe Geht Deutscher!" (GCRN4J). I have SEEN it but can't say I got anything like close to it.

Edited by MikeB3542
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Shouldn't be a problem. However, you should check local by-laws. It's illegal here to climb a tree in a public park. :)

 

Really? You can't climb trees in Toronto parks?

 

I wonder if we have a similar by-law here... I somehow doubt it, but it could be one of those 'It's on the books and nothing more' deals. But then again, all of the tree caches that we have around here are in fairly secluded areas that probably wouldn't be patrolled for that sort of thing

 

Hmm... That will be interesting to look into...

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Shouldn't be a problem. However, you should check local by-laws. It's illegal here to climb a tree in a public park. :wub:

 

OMG, took 3 posts for the permission crowd to weigh in. It wasn't relevant to the post. :lol::wub:

 

Quite relevant actually. A local reviewer archived a cache when he discovered it was up a tree in a park.

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Shouldn't be a problem. However, you should check local by-laws. It's illegal here to climb a tree in a public park. :lol:

 

Really? You can't climb trees in Toronto parks?

 

I wonder if we have a similar by-law here... I somehow doubt it, but it could be one of those 'It's on the books and nothing more' deals. But then again, all of the tree caches that we have around here are in fairly secluded areas that probably wouldn't be patrolled for that sort of thing

 

Hmm... That will be interesting to look into...

City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 608, Parks.

 

§ 608-6. Injury and damage.

 

No person shall in a park:

 

A. Climb a building, structure or equipment, unless it is equipment designed for climbing;

B. Break, injure, deface, destroy, move or remove the whole or any part of a flower, plant

material, fungus, tree or other vegetation or a building, structure, equipment or other

property of the City;

C. Unless authorized by permit, climb, move or remove the whole or any part of a tree, rock,

boulder, rock face or remove soil, sand or wood;

D. In any manner, disturb ground which is under repair, prepared for planting, has been newly

seeded or sodded or is in an area posted to that effect;

E. Drive, park or walk in an area posted to prohibit the activity; or

F. Unless authorized by permit, place, throw, cast or otherwise deposit snow.

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I've seen a couple, and they are all good. The evilest climbing one we came upon was not in a tree though, it was on the chain link fence of a tennis court, about fifteen feet up, stuck in the ivy. (GC1BJ8H The Great Escape) :wub: I hate hate hate climbing chain link. Mah feets too big!

Trees, no problem. We have one on our get-list right now. Funny thing is it seems like the short dudes that seem to place them. Probably get a good laugh placing it JUST out of reach of the bean-poles! :lol:

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....What if someone falls down and hurts themselves?...

 

Finders assume all risks in seeking a cache. It's part of the TOS of this site.

 

That said, someone could fall down on the way out their front door to go find your cache and sue you becaues had they not been heading for your cache they would not have headed out just then.

 

It should be laughed out of court but they have the right to sue and be annoying even if it will be kicked out of court.

 

I would only worry about such things if you placed a cache to cause intensional harm. The way I see it, most owners don't have a desire to get hurt and did manage to place the cache without doing so. It helps me when something stupid is tempting to get to the cache spot. I look for how the owner would have done it.

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....What if someone falls down and hurts themselves?...

 

Finders assume all risks in seeking a cache. It's part of the TOS of this site.

 

That said, someone could fall down on the way out their front door to go find your cache and sue you becaues had they not been heading for your cache they would not have headed out just then.

 

It should be laughed out of court but they have the right to sue and be annoying even if it will be kicked out of court.

 

I would only worry about such things if you placed a cache to cause intensional harm. The way I see it, most owners don't have a desire to get hurt and did manage to place the cache without doing so. It helps me when something stupid is tempting to get to the cache spot. I look for how the owner would have done it.

I'm not a lawyer, so take this as you will, but my guess is that if someone was killed or injured retrieving a cache that you hid, you would be a fool to think you wouldn't be getting some "attention". The disclaimer technically should get you off the hook, but you might need a lawyer to keep the wolves at bay.

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Lots of caches in this game are dangerous. If someone goes for a cache and gets themselves hurt, it's their own fault, just like when I climbed a wall for one, fell, and shattered my heels over a year ago. I didn't complain to Groundspeak, I didn't sue the city or the cache owner. I made the decision to go for it, and I paid, and am still paying, the price. That's how it goes. It's called "individual responsibility." Just because it was there doesn't mean anyone MADE me go after that cache.

 

Of course, not everyone takes responsibility for their own decisions and subsequent actions, so you may have to put up with some BS if any of those kind of folks happen to be the ones that get hurt.

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Lots of caches in this game are dangerous. If someone goes for a cache and gets themselves hurt, it's their own fault, just like when I climbed a wall for one, fell, and shattered my heels over a year ago. I didn't complain to Groundspeak, I didn't sue the city or the cache owner. I made the decision to go for it, and I paid, and am still paying, the price. That's how it goes. It's called "individual responsibility." Just because it was there doesn't mean anyone MADE me go after that cache.

 

Of course, not everyone takes responsibility for their own decisions and subsequent actions, so you may have to put up with some BS if any of those kind of folks happen to be the ones that get hurt.

 

Two words: attractive nuisance. Before doing a hide with gratuitous terrain difficulty, think it through. And let's be perfectly clear...there's your garden variety BS and then there is lawyer BS.

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there are alot of great places to hide them and high up in a tree would be one. i think as long as you let people know what they are getting into by putting down a proper rating it should not be a problem. people either love or hate them.

 

I've done two tree caches recently, which I personally had no problem with, but I could see from previous logs that others did. Neither cache description said that the cache would be high up a tree.

 

One, with a difficulty level of 3 and a terrain level of 3, was a 10 minute walk from the road up a hill and through a gulley. I gathered from previous logs that it would be in a hunter's tree stand and it was. The container was in plain sight about 25 feet up. Screw-in pegs were in the tree to get up there.

 

The other cache had a difficulty level of three with terrain of 3 and a half. It was a two and a half mile hike from the parking area. Previous logs led me to believe it was in or near a tree. The tree could have sheltered a cache, but the only real spot in it was about twelve feet up with no way to climb it. Nah, it couldn't be there, I thought. After looking everywhere else, I thought I'd better check it. Then I realized there was a large stick stuck in the ground that just happened to lean in the right place to use as a support. (A second, lighter searcher would have helped here.) It was still a blind reach into the hole, but there was the cache. I could see from the DNF logs that otheres were irritated to walk out so far and not find anything. And the hint was, "will send a spoiler picture upon request." (That's a whole other topic, right there.)

 

I had fun getting challenged by these, but a little heads up might be nice.

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Speaking of danger, I'm trying to put my finger on the difference between these two scenarios:

 

Crossing a freeway - will not be approved. I saw one such cache archived point-blank by the reviewer recently.

 

Climbing a mountain - sure, no problem. I see these being approved all the time; one cache even with a bear-in-area thrown in for good measure.

 

So what's different? They're both dangerous, or can be if you're not careful. Yet I wouldn't have it any other way. (I'd be mighty upset if the above scenarios were reversed, for example...)

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Speaking of danger, I'm trying to put my finger on the difference between these two scenarios:

 

Crossing a freeway - will not be approved. I saw one such cache archived point-blank by the reviewer recently.

 

Climbing a mountain - sure, no problem. I see these being approved all the time; one cache even with a bear-in-area thrown in for good measure.

 

So what's different? They're both dangerous, or can be if you're not careful. Yet I wouldn't have it any other way. (I'd be mighty upset if the above scenarios were reversed, for example...)

 

Though I don't have all the details, I'll suggest an hypothesis : climbing the mountain is not illegal, crossing the freeway is? Some roads are forbidden to pedestrians, so you are not legally allowed to walk across them.

 

You are allowed to ask cachers to do dangerous things, but not to do illegal things.

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Speaking of danger, I'm trying to put my finger on the difference between these two scenarios:

 

Crossing a freeway - will not be approved. I saw one such cache archived point-blank by the reviewer recently.

 

Climbing a mountain - sure, no problem. I see these being approved all the time; one cache even with a bear-in-area thrown in for good measure.

 

So what's different? They're both dangerous, or can be if you're not careful. Yet I wouldn't have it any other way. (I'd be mighty upset if the above scenarios were reversed, for example...)

 

Though I don't have all the details, I'll suggest an hypothesis : climbing the mountain is not illegal, crossing the freeway is? Some roads are forbidden to pedestrians, so you are not legally allowed to walk across them.

 

You are allowed to ask cachers to do dangerous things, but not to do illegal things.

How many time did an older sib say something like "Go play in the street!"

Maybe the problem with crossing a freeway is that not only are you endangering yourself, you are endangering every poor soul who has to swerve around your carcass, not to mention emergency workers who will retrieve your carcass and tow your vehicle to your next of kin.

Edited by MikeB3542
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I've done two tree caches recently, which I personally had no problem with, but I could see from previous logs that others did. Neither cache description said that the cache would be high up a tree.

 

One, with a difficulty level of 3 and a terrain level of 3, was a 10 minute walk from the road up a hill and through a gulley. I gathered from previous logs that it would be in a hunter's tree stand and it was. The container was in plain sight about 25 feet up. Screw-in pegs were in the tree to get up there.

 

The other cache had a difficulty level of three with terrain of 3 and a half. It was a two and a half mile hike from the parking area. Previous logs led me to believe it was in or near a tree. The tree could have sheltered a cache, but the only real spot in it was about twelve feet up with no way to climb it. Nah, it couldn't be there, I thought. After looking everywhere else, I thought I'd better check it. Then I realized there was a large stick stuck in the ground that just happened to lean in the right place to use as a support. (A second, lighter searcher would have helped here.) It was still a blind reach into the hole, but there was the cache. I could see from the DNF logs that otheres were irritated to walk out so far and not find anything. And the hint was, "will send a spoiler picture upon request." (That's a whole other topic, right there.)

 

I had fun getting challenged by these, but a little heads up might be nice.

Considering the difficulty of 3 puts the cache in the realm of having to make multiple trips I don't see why anyone would get irritated by having to make multiple trips. It was properly rated.

 

While I understand the irritation of having to make a second trip, but it was my fault for not being prepared, not the owner's. We all make judgment calls on what gear to take and what gear to leave in the truck, or even leave home. That call is ours to make. Is it nice for the owner to give us a heads up? Sure, but not necessary.

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Although I like tree climbing caches my friend and I recently placed a cache up a pine tree that hangs on fishing line and has a pulley to get it down. I still had to climb 60 feet to place it there though! This might be an idea if the reviewer doesn't like the idea of climbing to get to the cache. To make it a bit harder We turned it into a multi cache, at the third waypoint is a key and at the fourth is the final cache. The rope to get it down is padlocked to the tree and you have to find the key to get the cache down. Each waypoint is about a mile away from each other just to make the walk last longer. Maintenance is a bit complicated depending on the weather but there is a great view at the height of the pulley. Hope this helps,

Bushwalker53.

 

PS there are quite a few caches that I've found that require you to climb. And I just realised that this topic was from a long time ago, anyway just thought I'd share some info.

Edited by Bushwalker53
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We've done a local four-stage multi-cache where one stage is about 10' up in a tree. It was very clever but it has it's downside. If I had done that cache myself, I never would have even attempted climbing up there. Fortunately my husband was with me and ok with climbing and got the info there for the next stage. But I have seen posts by other cachers who have attempted that cache and got to stage three (the tree) only to be disappointed that they couldn't complete it because they weren't able or willing to climb a tree. Even though the terrain rating for that stage (the CO was nice enough to include ratings for each stage) was a "3" it really wasn't telling enough. I do "3" terrains for hiking but I wouldn't climb a tree even though it had the same rating.

 

I think if you are going to have a tree climb make sure it's approved by the property owner who would be ultimately reponsible for any liability from falls/injuries, make sure it's appropriate for the type of cachers you are trying to attract to the cache and make sure you give enough of a description/hint that lets potential seekers know what they will be up against so that they don't drive all the way out there just to be disappointment that they can't claim the find.

 

One other thing to consider is that if the tree is your only or final stage that there will be some who will see the cache but not attempt the climb to get it but will still log it as a "find" because they spotted it. If that's ok with you, so be it. But if you require them to sign the log to claim the find, you should state that and be prepared to go out and check the log periodically to verify that everyone who logged it actually signed it. There is a local CO who is a stickler for this kind of thing and regularly deletes finds for those who haven't signed the log for one of his tough caches.

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Case study:

 

A geocacher who fell from a tree on an ------- man's property is now suing the landowner for negligence.

------------- property in November 2009, according to his lawyer. The man broke several bones in the fall and was left partially paralyzed. He is seeking medical damages in excess of $100,000, according to his lawyer.

 

But attorneys on each side of the case, filled in County Superior Court, provide dramatically differing accounts of what happened that day .

 

According to one -------- he and two friends received permission to geo-cache on the property.

 

The defendants lawyer, says that conversation never took place and the first time he heard from ------ was when he was served with a lawsuit in April. The defendant is also being represented through his insurance company.

 

State law limits the liability of landowners as a way to encourage them to open their property to others for recreational use. According to the law, landowners are not required to "keep such premises safe for entry or use" or give warning of hazardous conditions or structures.

 

But ----- said the agreement he asserts was made between ------ and ----- dissolves the landowner's immunity.

 

"It's one thing to just wander onto someone's land and be hurt," . "It's another thing when they invite you onto the land. . . .

 

 

He said the fall left ----- with multiple spine and rib fractures, a contusion to his left lung and partial paralysis on one side of his body.

 

 

Court depositions in the case are scheduled for Aug. 1, according to-----.

 

And in the mean time the defendant might want to start looking for a good bankruptcy lawyer, because win or lose this is going to cost him large.

Edited by AneMae
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...To make it a bit harder We turned it into a multi cache, at the third waypoint is a key and at the fourth is the final cache. The rope to get it down is padlocked to the tree and you have to find the key to get the cache down. Each waypoint is about a mile away from each other just to make the walk last longer.

Don't be surprised when the key frequently goes missing. Unless your cache forces finders to backtrack past stage 3 to get back to their car, you'll probably find a distressingly high number of finders won't bother to take the key back to stage 3.

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...To make it a bit harder We turned it into a multi cache, at the third waypoint is a key and at the fourth is the final cache. The rope to get it down is padlocked to the tree and you have to find the key to get the cache down. Each waypoint is about a mile away from each other just to make the walk last longer.

Don't be surprised when the key frequently goes missing. Unless your cache forces finders to backtrack past stage 3 to get back to their car, you'll probably find a distressingly high number of finders won't bother to take the key back to stage 3.

 

And a few who will cut the rope if they can't find the key. :anibad::o

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We found a great geocache in a tree last year. Thankfully there was no need to climb it, we wouldn't have done that anyway. Plus the wrong age to be climbing trees! But we looked up and could see the container, turned out we had to use the fishing wire hidden on the tree and unravel it to bring the container down. A well thought out cache hide.

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Here is our cache in a tree story from two years ago. It happened while visiting our daughter Tasha and her family in Ottawa

 

While in Ottawa, we cached alone during the week since Natasha and George worked and Jake & Ben were at school. There were a few caches we could not find, and we decided that all 6 of us would have better luck, so we brought them with us on the Sunday. One of the caches was described as behind a knobby tree. The only knobby tree was a large tree at the edge of the trail at the top of a steep slope. Ma and I had looked and could not spot a cache anywhere on the tree.

 

This time Tasha looked up and spotted something in one of the knobs at least 15 feet up the tree. The hole in the center of the knob was about the size of a film canister and something brown seemed to be in the hole. Nothing was sticking out so we had no idea if it was a cache and how to get it down.

 

George volunteered to shimmy up the tree but was vetoed. Jake produced a long thin branch with a small hooked branch on the end. I took it and somehow managed to dislodge the cache from its hiding spot and have it fall to the ground. It was a film canister cache. We were so pleased to have found it. However, now we had two problems: How do we get the cache back up the tree, and thru the trees we could see someone standing at his window watching the six of us. (fortunately he was on the other side of the tree from the cache).

 

We noticed a magnet duct taped to the end of the film canister. It was obviously to be used to put the cache back but how? We had brought nothing with us. Then MA noted that the clasp that kept her purse closed was actually a magnet (I have no idea why she brought a purse into the woods). So we worked at tying the purse to the end of the stick, and then placed the cache on the magnet on the purse. I slowly raised the heavy purse way over my head on the end of the thin stick, all the while being watched by the man in the window. The purse, swung from side to side refusing to stop in the right spot, but finally I got the cache to the hole and used the purse to shove it in. I then slid the purse down the side of the tree, and the cache remained.

 

We left smiling as the man in the window watched us leave. I doubt that he had any idea what was going on and I wonder how he would explain it to his friends.

Edited by Ma & Pa
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One must consider all things. In my case my PhD helped me to determine what to do in this case.

 

From one I found way up a tree:

 

Easily located the cache and made the following calculations in my head:

 

G is the universal gravitational constant

G = 6.6726 x 10-11N-m2/kg2

 

Velocity calculation based on height: v=sqrt{2gd}

 

An uncontrolled decent would equal a velocity of 14.0047491945 meters per second over a period of 1.42808698123 seconds

 

This would be equal to a force of 73,500 Newtons where Kinetic Energy is K.E= 1/2 (m*V^2)

and Force is F= K.E/D

 

Since it takes on 35.5858 newtons to break (says collar bone) I used a risk analysis formula to determine if I should retrieve this cache. That was based on:

 

RISK is the

PROBABILITY that a

THREAT will exploit a

VULNERABILITY to cause harm to an

ASSET

 

R = f(T, V, A)

 

In this case, given I was wearing dress shoes and pants, the launch was aborted. Nice one though.

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Shouldn't be a problem. However, you should check local by-laws. It's illegal here to climb a tree in a public park. :lol:

 

Really? You can't climb trees in Toronto parks?

 

I wonder if we have a similar by-law here... I somehow doubt it, but it could be one of those 'It's on the books and nothing more' deals. But then again, all of the tree caches that we have around here are in fairly secluded areas that probably wouldn't be patrolled for that sort of thing

 

Hmm... That will be interesting to look into...

City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 608, Parks.

 

§ 608-6. Injury and damage.

 

No person shall in a park:

 

A. Climb a building, structure or equipment, unless it is equipment designed for climbing;

B. Break, injure, deface, destroy, move or remove the whole or any part of a flower, plant

material, fungus, tree or other vegetation or a building, structure, equipment or other

property of the City;

C. Unless authorized by permit, climb, move or remove the whole or any part of a tree, rock,

boulder, rock face or remove soil, sand or wood;

D. In any manner, disturb ground which is under repair, prepared for planting, has been newly

seeded or sodded or is in an area posted to that effect;

E. Drive, park or walk in an area posted to prohibit the activity; or

F. Unless authorized by permit, place, throw, cast or otherwise deposit snow.

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