An observation on list attitude, as seen by a relative newbie

[+amianda]

Hey Geocachers (or Terracachers, if you prefer?)-

 

I'm a friendly newbie with no ill will for anyone, just thought I'd throw this out there since I'm sorta a neutral 3rd party.

 

I've been on these forums for about a week, maybe more, and I have to say that I'm surprised by the negativity around here a little bit. There are definitely a bunch of awesome posters who favor enthusiasm and humor over irritation, but the amount of angry posts and replies I've seen on here is daunting.

 

My thought is this - These forums exist for communication about geocaching. There is no 'age' requirement here (and by that, I mean how long someone has been playing this game), so we have lots of newbies who have tons of interest and enthusiasm but perhaps not as much experience as some of our 'older' cachemates (is that a new word or did I just pick it up somewhere on the forums and forgot? Anyway, it's a good term and I'm borrowing it!). The newbies like myself may look at the Geocaching.com site and see the rules and guidelines for playing and (perhaps naiively) believe that most geocachers follow them. And so when we see things that do not look like they conform to these situations, we try to do our best to follow the suggestions of the site and report them or whatever.

 

Then we get hit by the Mega Hammer Of Overly Defensive-ness. And that sucks. Mostly I don't think we're trying to rag on anyone in particular. Mostly I don't think we're mad at anyone. Mostly it's not personal. But we like the game and we're exited to play, and we know that things happen, but we want to help stuff get fixed or get communication going or whatever the issue is. Honestly most of us are not attacking you (or the CO, or the game in general, or whatever). If your first reaction to a post or comment is "OMG he's attacking (whoever)!!!1!ONE!", then I respectfully suggest taking a moment to breathe and remember how it maybe was when you first started caching, and try to be patient, understanding, and perhaps a little enthusiastic when you respond as well. New cachers often mean new ideas, new TIs and SIs, and fun new caches down the road. Dont scare us away, please!

 

On the other hand, I've seen some Original Posters who need to chill a little too. Understand that things do take time, sometimes. While I believe it should take less than 2 weeks, for example, for someone to get back to me via email with at least a 'hey, thanks for the comment, I'll look into this', not everyone answers every email they get (i'm guilty of this) and if they don't get around to fixing something or have disappeared off the face of the website, then eventually the cache will be archived, or whatever problem will be fixed. Also, yes, caching is a community effort. There are resources on the geocaching site that you can use to print logs and such to carry with you, in case you see something that needs a quick fix. Yes, COs are supposed to maintain their caches, but unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong (such as a confirmed muggled container or something equally catastrophic), how would you feel about having to take an hour or more drive to put a new piece of paper in a tin can on the side of the road, and then drive all the way home? Give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that COs are employed people, perhaps, with full time jobs, full time kids, full time significant others, other hobbies and vacation travel. Help them out a bit, ok?

 

What I'm really trying to say here comes down to this:

 

We are a community. Our game is a balance of give (placing a cache) and take (finding a cache). Sometimes the givers have to be takers and the takers have to be givers. There is no real need to be angry about minor things on either side of the fence.

 

Can't we all just get along?

[+briansnat]

If you've been visiting Internet forums for any length of time you'll find these to be among the friendliest forums around. Sure there are disagreements and small number of disagreeable people, but the overwhelming majority of posts here are helpful and friendly, or at least respectful.

 

There are some hot button issues that will always generate spirited debate but don't confuse debate and disagreement with animosity. There are many here whom I disagree with often, but if they passed through my area I would drop almost anything for the opportunity to go geocaching with them, or at the very least, have a beer or cup of coffee with them.

 

Newbies are always welcome here. When they post earnestly it's rare that someone will bash them. In the few instances where someone does, most of the regulars here will take that person to task for doing so. Newbies who troll or sermonize will be treated differently and that shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

Many people come here and focus on the relatively few threads that get heated and ignore the hundreds of threads where people are being friendly and helpful.

[+arabstar1982]

I have been on internet forums for years now, and what briansnat said is true, it happens everywhere. I am a newbie to geocaching and the forums here, and what I have learned in general, (and I doubt here is any different, however I haven't totally proven this to myself that it is or isn't yet) is that most people are genuine and realize that everyone needs to start somewhere, while there's always going to be a few that think they were born geocaching and are extreme experts, perhaps the only experts, and that everyone else who asks a question whether it be simple or complex is just dumb or uneducated - that happens on EVERY forum I have ever visited for any length of time over one post. You will get that offline too whether it be in a club or group or some sort of other social gathering. Some people just view themselves as superior to others, but when it comes down to it, we all bleed the same color and are made up of the same stuff.

 

I, personally, have found some helpful information already in these forums and look forward to recieving more helpful information as time goes on. I try not to take offense to any negative posts as you have to just consider the source - whether it be the original poster or the responding negative poster.

 

There are plenty of newbies to this sport and I think most people understand that, like anything, there could be a learning curve involved.

 

Happy caching, just my two cents I realize, and my opinion and that everyone has one. :-)

[+Mredria]

I agree that this forum can be a little hostile, but it's by far one of the nicer forums on the internet. I get a little culture shock either way something, either coming from 4chan(HELL) or the forum I help moderate (super-clean-friendly-happy-time).

 

A good rule in any forum, if you don't want flames, Lurk More, and you'll learn what is acceptable and unacceptable in this board's "culture".

[Clan Riffster]

New cachers often mean new ideas, new TIs and SIs, and fun new caches down the road.

Absolutely! Newbies are the life blood of dang near any activity.

However, I gotta side with Brian as far as forum comparisons go. There's a forum I used to visit for folks who participate in another hobby I enjoy. One of the "old timers" tried to draw me into a political debate, (Dem vs Rep), and when I mentioned that I was a Libertarian, and had voted that way for the last couple decades or so, he called me names I can't even hint at in here. My total response to his diatribe was "Uh... OK... If you say so...", along with reporting the offending post. Not only was I banned from the site, (he was not banned), but every post I ever made there, (all of which were reasonable and polite), were removed from the site.

Trust me. This place is very nice compared to others.

-Sean

 

Post script: Welcome to the madness!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Hey Geocachers (or Terracachers, if you prefer?)-

 

I'm a friendly newbie with no ill will for anyone, just thought I'd throw this out there since I'm sorta a neutral 3rd party.

 

I've been on these forums for about a week, maybe more, and I have to say that I'm surprised by the negativity around here a little bit. There are definitely a bunch of awesome posters who favor enthusiasm and humor over irritation, but the amount of angry posts and replies I've seen on here is daunting.

 

My thought is this - These forums exist for communication about geocaching. There is no 'age' requirement here (and by that, I mean how long someone has been playing this game), so we have lots of newbies who have tons of interest and enthusiasm but perhaps not as much experience as some of our 'older' cachemates (is that a new word or did I just pick it up somewhere on the forums and forgot? Anyway, it's a good term and I'm borrowing it!). The newbies like myself may look at the Geocaching.com site and see the rules and guidelines for playing and (perhaps naiively) believe that most geocachers follow them. And so when we see things that do not look like they conform to these situations, we try to do our best to follow the suggestions of the site and report them or whatever.

 

Then we get hit by the Mega Hammer Of Overly Defensive-ness. And that sucks. Mostly I don't think we're trying to rag on anyone in particular. Mostly I don't think we're mad at anyone. Mostly it's not personal. But we like the game and we're exited to play, and we know that things happen, but we want to help stuff get fixed or get communication going or whatever the issue is. Honestly most of us are not attacking you (or the CO, or the game in general, or whatever). If your first reaction to a post or comment is "OMG he's attacking (whoever)!!!1!ONE!", then I respectfully suggest taking a moment to breathe and remember how it maybe was when you first started caching, and try to be patient, understanding, and perhaps a little enthusiastic when you respond as well. New cachers often mean new ideas, new TIs and SIs, and fun new caches down the road. Dont scare us away, please!

 

On the other hand, I've seen some Original Posters who need to chill a little too. Understand that things do take time, sometimes. While I believe it should take less than 2 weeks, for example, for someone to get back to me via email with at least a 'hey, thanks for the comment, I'll look into this', not everyone answers every email they get (i'm guilty of this) and if they don't get around to fixing something or have disappeared off the face of the website, then eventually the cache will be archived, or whatever problem will be fixed. Also, yes, caching is a community effort. There are resources on the geocaching site that you can use to print logs and such to carry with you, in case you see something that needs a quick fix. Yes, COs are supposed to maintain their caches, but unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong (such as a confirmed muggled container or something equally catastrophic), how would you feel about having to take an hour or more drive to put a new piece of paper in a tin can on the side of the road, and then drive all the way home? Give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that COs are employed people, perhaps, with full time jobs, full time kids, full time significant others, other hobbies and vacation travel. Help them out a bit, ok?

 

What I'm really trying to say here comes down to this:

 

We are a community. Our game is a balance of give (placing a cache) and take (finding a cache). Sometimes the givers have to be takers and the takers have to be givers. There is no real need to be angry about minor things on either side of the fence.

 

Can't we all just get along?

Amianda, I always enjoy your posts, and, in this case, my seasoned response is "...whatever!"

 

I have long been a member, since 1983 of numerous forums and list groups and related thingies on the Internet and Internet predecessors such as Bitnet, etc., and I also operate (as list owner) 46 email list groups, some of them very large and devoted to some very controversial topics which tend to attract flamers, fundamentalists (can you tell that I have no patience for fundamentalists of ANY ilk?) and fanatics. I can tell you from long experience that, with one exception (a rather tightly-moderated list group for Toyota Corolla owners where EVERONE is super-respectful and kind at all times; they must be on some kinda drug or something), this is BY FAR the mellowest and most peaceful forum I have ever seen on the Internet.

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

So, you may wish to take some of the interchanges here with a bit of a grain of salt. And, you gotta realize that the entire forum really has only about seven unique members, and the rest of the so-called accounts which post here are merely sock puppets (I myself operate about 414 sock puppet accounts on this forum; enabled largely by some clandestine assistance from ICANN.)!

 

In fact, I am having a hard time at the moment remembering if your account is real or if it is merely one of my sock puppets...

 

In closing, about the only person to be VERY CAREFUL of here is the one named "Sioneva" -- it is no accident that many of us call her "Sionevil". She is downright scary!

 

.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

 

Lets see, there are multiple death threats daily on usenet (I myself have been a recipient of them), but you can't even type d-a-m-n on this forum without the software changing it to Dadgum. Yup, pretty mild.

 

This above couldn't have possibly happened, could it?

[+briansnat]

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

 

Lets see, there are multiple death threats daily on usenet (I myself have been a recipient of them), but you can't even type d-a-m-n on this forum without the software changing it to Dadgum. Yup, pretty mild.

 

This above couldn't have possibly happened, could it?

 

For a time I was a regular visitor to rec.skiing.alpine on Usenet. The most innocuous threads there asking for advice about where to ski or what brand of boot to buy degenerate into the most incredibly vile name calling imaginable within 3-4 posts. Participants in that forum have lost jobs, had their tires slashed, received death threats and have been the target of court rulings prohibiting them from posting there. No exaggeration, just check it out and you will be amazed.

 

Yeah, we can get worked up here over the issue of micros, virtuals or lousy cache contents, but it's really quite benign compared to what else is out there.

Edited March 24, 2009 by briansnat

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

 

Lets see, there are multiple death threats daily on usenet (I myself have been a recipient of them), but you can't even type d-a-m-n on this forum without the software changing it to Dadgum. Yup, pretty mild.

 

This above couldn't have possibly happened, could it?

 

For a time I was a regular visitor to rec.skiing.alpine on Usenet. The most innocuous threads there asking for advice about where to ski or what brand of boot to buy degenerate into the most incredibly vile name calling imaginable within 3-4 posts. Participants in that forum have lost jobs, had their tires slashed, received death threats and have been the target of court rulings prohibiting them from posting there. No exaggeration, just check it out and you will be amazed.

 

Yeah, we can get worked up here over the issue of micros, virtuals or lousy cache contents, but it's really quite benign compared to what else is out there.

I know the exact tales/forum/incidents you are talking about, Brian, and only because I have seen periodic reports in the news media as some of the perps have been convicted in court and sent to prison for their offenses.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

 

Lets see, there are multiple death threats daily on usenet (I myself have been a recipient of them), but you can't even type d-a-m-n on this forum without the software changing it to Dadgum. Yup, pretty mild.

 

This above couldn't have possibly happened, could it?

Yes, and I have told the tale on this forum in the past, and have even provided links to the news stories. There are hundreds of reports about the incident on the web, mostly in the form of news reports, one link may be found at http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=75057

 

BTW, one of the funniest stories in the news media last year was the report of numerous death threats and other nasty goings-on on several Utah-based forums devoted to scrapbooking! I believe that a few folks got arrested in one of those incidents!

 

.

[+Mule Ears]

Regardless of the comparative coarseness of other online groups, amianda's point is well-taken. The discussion here is frequently argument-for-argument's sake, with nasty debating tactics taking the place of real discussion. Deliberate misunderstanding, selective quoting, reductio ad absurdum, holier-than-thou posturing and hair-trigger offense-taking are pretty standard techniques of many of the most active forum posters.

 

That said, there are some truly nice, really fun, obviously talented people who post here. It's just a miracle that they get a word in edgewise.

 

I read and/or participate in a number of other forums, and my observation is that this one is about middle-of-the-pack for friendliness/usefulness. Forums that are centered around purely online activities seem to be worse; those that are set up to discuss offline activities (climbing, hiking, fitness, biking) are better. I don't really factor in the prevalence of banned words; mountain-bike groups contain a lot of raunchy language but very little vitriol. This forum has no potty words but a considerable amount of trolling and seething. My two cents.

[jholly]

Probably the only forum that is milder than this one is the one over on GSAK. But, of course, only one thing is discussed there. There are some hot button issues, but mostly it is pretty calm and mild. The nomex undies haven't been used since my usenet days and rarely have I seen Godwin's law invoked here. Pretty calm and peaceful. I think most newbies that come with legitimate questions get a reasonable answer.

 

Jim

[+Mudfrog]

Hey Geocachers (or Terracachers, if you prefer?)-

 

I'm a friendly newbie with no ill will for anyone, just thought I'd throw this out there since I'm sorta a neutral 3rd party.

 

I've been on these forums for about a week, maybe more, and I have to say that I'm surprised by the negativity around here a little bit. There are definitely a bunch of awesome posters who favor enthusiasm and humor over irritation, but the amount of angry posts and replies I've seen on here is daunting.

 

My thought is this - These forums exist for communication about geocaching. There is no 'age' requirement here (and by that, I mean how long someone has been playing this game), so we have lots of newbies who have tons of interest and enthusiasm but perhaps not as much experience as some of our 'older' cachemates (is that a new word or did I just pick it up somewhere on the forums and forgot? Anyway, it's a good term and I'm borrowing it!). The newbies like myself may look at the Geocaching.com site and see the rules and guidelines for playing and (perhaps naiively) believe that most geocachers follow them. And so when we see things that do not look like they conform to these situations, we try to do our best to follow the suggestions of the site and report them or whatever.

 

Then we get hit by the Mega Hammer Of Overly Defensive-ness. And that sucks. Mostly I don't think we're trying to rag on anyone in particular. Mostly I don't think we're mad at anyone. Mostly it's not personal. But we like the game and we're exited to play, and we know that things happen, but we want to help stuff get fixed or get communication going or whatever the issue is. Honestly most of us are not attacking you (or the CO, or the game in general, or whatever). If your first reaction to a post or comment is "OMG he's attacking (whoever)!!!1!ONE!", then I respectfully suggest taking a moment to breathe and remember how it maybe was when you first started caching, and try to be patient, understanding, and perhaps a little enthusiastic when you respond as well. New cachers often mean new ideas, new TIs and SIs, and fun new caches down the road. Dont scare us away, please!

 

On the other hand, I've seen some Original Posters who need to chill a little too. Understand that things do take time, sometimes. While I believe it should take less than 2 weeks, for example, for someone to get back to me via email with at least a 'hey, thanks for the comment, I'll look into this', not everyone answers every email they get (i'm guilty of this) and if they don't get around to fixing something or have disappeared off the face of the website, then eventually the cache will be archived, or whatever problem will be fixed. Also, yes, caching is a community effort. There are resources on the geocaching site that you can use to print logs and such to carry with you, in case you see something that needs a quick fix. Yes, COs are supposed to maintain their caches, but unless something is SERIOUSLY wrong (such as a confirmed muggled container or something equally catastrophic), how would you feel about having to take an hour or more drive to put a new piece of paper in a tin can on the side of the road, and then drive all the way home? Give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that COs are employed people, perhaps, with full time jobs, full time kids, full time significant others, other hobbies and vacation travel. Help them out a bit, ok?

 

What I'm really trying to say here comes down to this:

 

We are a community. Our game is a balance of give (placing a cache) and take (finding a cache). Sometimes the givers have to be takers and the takers have to be givers. There is no real need to be angry about minor things on either side of the fence.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

Briansnat hit the nail on the head as far as how docile these forums are so i'll leave that as is.

 

But i did want to add something about that part of your post that i bolded out. Just wanted to say that there are times when newbies, and oldies alike, might see things that they wholeheartedly believe are wrong. They just don't see how it can be otherwise so they sometimes want to get a reviewer involved or post here on the forums about a perceived problem. The thing is, many times there is no problem at all so all the jumping of the gun has done is caused angst and then sometimes, the dropping of the Mega Hammer of Overly Defensiveness. Everyone needs to remember that things aren't always as they seem so we sometimes have to step back, calm down, and maybe look at things from another angle.

 

Your comment, "rules and guidelines for playing and (perhaps naiively) believe that most geocachers follow them", indicates to me that you seem to be encountering alot of caches that you think aren't placed within gc.com guidelines. There's no doubt that there are caches placed that don't conform to gc.com guidelines and those do need to be addressed. But because you think there is a problem doesn't necessarily mean there is one. I don't mean that we shouldn't ask questions but we can do so in ways not to cause conflict. Get with the cache owner if you think there is an issue with a cache. If he doesn't give you a satisfactory answer or tells you to mind your own bizwacks, and you still think there is a problem, then contact your reviewer about it. Starting a forum thread about a problem with a specific cache is usually not a good idea...

[Mr.Yuck]

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

 

Lets see, there are multiple death threats daily on usenet (I myself have been a recipient of them), but you can't even type d-a-m-n on this forum without the software changing it to Dadgum. Yup, pretty mild.

 

This above couldn't have possibly happened, could it?

Yes, and I have told the tale on this forum in the past, and have even provided links to the news stories. There are hundreds of reports about the incident on the web, mostly in the form of news reports, one link may be found at http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=75057

 

BTW, one of the funniest stories in the news media last year was the report of numerous death threats and other nasty goings-on on several Utah-based forums devoted to scrapbooking! I believe that a few folks got arrested in one of those incidents!

 

 

Man, a guy who made a death threat against you was shot by a SWAT team after he displayed a gun? I'm glad you're still with us. I know the guy who made death threats against me is like 600 pounds, and practically confined to his house. He was extremely easy to look up, as the owner of like 20 domain names through a WHOIS search.

 

Regardless of the comparative coarseness of other online groups, amianda's point is well-taken. The discussion here is frequently argument-for-argument's sake, with nasty debating tactics taking the place of real discussion. Deliberate misunderstanding, selective quoting, reductio ad absurdum, holier-than-thou posturing and hair-trigger offense-taking are pretty standard techniques of many of the most active forum posters.

 

That said, there are some truly nice, really fun, obviously talented people who post here. It's just a miracle that they get a word in edgewise.

 

I read and/or participate in a number of other forums, and my observation is that this one is about middle-of-the-pack for friendliness/usefulness. Forums that are centered around purely online activities seem to be worse; those that are set up to discuss offline activities (climbing, hiking, fitness, biking) are better. I don't really factor in the prevalence of banned words; mountain-bike groups contain a lot of raunchy language but very little vitriol. This forum has no potty words but a considerable amount of trolling and seething. My two cents.

 

Hmm. Interesting observations, Mule Ears. I should sit back and just lurk, and maybe I will find this forum to be "middle of the pack". There certainly have been some battles, eh? I really do believe that many of the posters who think these forums are so terrible have never set foot in other internet forums. Evidenced by the fact that someone started a thread a month or two ago asking what a troll was, a term that's been in use on every message board on the internet since like 1992.

 

Probably the only forum that is milder than this one is the one over on GSAK. But, of course, only one thing is discussed there. There are some hot button issues, but mostly it is pretty calm and mild. The nomex undies haven't been used since my usenet days and rarely have I seen Godwin's law invoked here. Pretty calm and peaceful. I think most newbies that come with legitimate questions get a reasonable answer.

 

Jim

 

I agree! There is a newbie forum here, you know. I've never noticed newb's being flamed there. I could be wrong though. Most of the accusations of people being big meanies to newbs you see around here are posted in this, the Geocaching Topics forum.

Edited March 24, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+briansnat]

Deliberate misunderstanding, selective quoting, reductio ad absurdum, holier-than-thou posturing and hair-trigger offense-taking are pretty standard techniques of many of the most active forum posters.

 

All common and legit debating tactics. What you have here are a lot of bright people who have debating experience. Maybe I'm inured to the tactics because I hear them every day on the news and see them in the political forums I frequent, but they are effective when making a point.

 

The tactics can drag down the discussion level but this is a forum, not a love fest.

 

For those who don't care for that sort of debate there are many, many threads that don't involve it. On the page right now I see threads about preparing ammo cans, the best flashlights, how to use Cachestats, oldest caches and many others that don't involve much beyond geocachers helping geocachers.

[Mushtang]

!!!1!ONE!

That cracked me up. I'm going to steal that and use it tomorrow. Edited March 24, 2009 by Mushtang

[+StarBrand]

Over the years I have learned to largely stop any "debate" on my part as it never really accomplishes anything. I drop in, say what I came to say abou the topic at hand, maybe followup with a clarification or 2 and then exit the thread. Its my way on the contrversial stuff these days. The endless pages of debate by a few dedicated posters that occasionally happen are sometimes noteworthy and sometimes boorish.

 

But you quickly learn to get a thicker skin as well. The written word is naturally much more harsh sounding then spoken language. Most thoughts and comments are not intended to be personal attacks. I largely accept many folks here as who they are and I accept thier passion for this little activity of ours - even if I disagree on some issues. I really think the majority of threads are helpful and straightforward. We are overall a friendly bunch - fairly technical as a whole.

 

Having said that - I know we as a group do get out of line now and again - and it is proper that a person such as yourself should point that out to us. So we can take a moment to reflect on our attitudes before continuing to post. So - thanks!

[+amianda]

Regardless of the comparative coarseness of other online groups, amianda's point is well-taken. The discussion here is frequently argument-for-argument's sake, with nasty debating tactics taking the place of real discussion. Deliberate misunderstanding, selective quoting, reductio ad absurdum, holier-than-thou posturing and hair-trigger offense-taking are pretty standard techniques of many of the most active forum posters.

 

That said, there are some truly nice, really fun, obviously talented people who post here. It's just a miracle that they get a word in edgewise.

 

Thank you, Mule Ears, this is exactly what i meant. I'm by no means saying this is the worst forum out there - far from it - but alot of the responses to people's questions and concerns are similar in tone to the majority of the answers I'm getting to this one, even tho the topics vary by quite alot. IE, 'there's no problem because there's worse out there'. Which, quite frankly, is kinda silly. There's no reason to be mean, so don't be mean, just because it's less mean than the ones over at http://forums.i-hate-everyone.com.

 

You know?

 

Anyway, just making an observation. No big deal

Edited March 24, 2009 by amianda

[+Snoogans]

These forums are tame as folks have said before.

 

I usually float around looking for entitlement based threads to get my daily smug superior feeling.

 

Most days I have to go over to the various craigslist forums to be entertained by the hoi polloi.

[Keystone]

Half my hate mail says that the forums are over-moderated. The other half of my hate mail consists of "where are the moderators to stop this?" messages.

 

I figure that, so long as the balance stays at around 50/50, the moderators are probably doing OK. We have to balance the benefits of a free and open discussion with the inevitable disagreements and flames that emerge from those discussions.

 

Also, we are equipped with kevlar flak jackets and a generous supply of admin bricks. Go ahead, look it up. That's right from the forum guidelines.

[+tozainamboku]

I suggest becoming familiar with the forum guidelines. Then, if you see someone violating the forum guidelines, use the Report button under the post. The forum moderators can't be everywhere but they do respond to reports. Moderators can edit posts, issue warnings, lock threads, and even suspend posting privileges. If there are repeated violations, Groundspeak can even ban members. I'm just not seeing all the negativity you are in these forums.

 

Of course everyone thinks they are an expert geocacher, whether they have been caching for 8 years or just for 8 days. They all think think they understand the listing guidelines and could do a better job than the reviewers. So of course there will be arguments. One point is that newbies often don't know the history. The guidelines were not formed in a vacuum but are the result of responding to situations that have come up with geocaches in the past. They attempt to address these issues while still allowing most caches to be placed. Also the functionality of the Geocaching.com website was not created overnight. Long timers have seen changes made to the website. They know how long it takes for the change to be made sometimes. They know what things have been asked for that TPTB have said over and over are not in Groundspeaks plans to implement. Newbies tend to think they have a great idea that everyone would love and it is often hard to educate them about why this feature isn't already a part of Geocaching.com. Some old timers are impatient and may seem to be brushing off these ideas but after responding again and again we sometime forget that the newbie wasn't around for the last discussion. If you have specific questions about geocaching these can generally be answered in the Getting Started forum and the moderators there are pretty good about keeping that section to be just for providing that type of information. In the General Discussion we like a good debate and some drama and there are certain topics that we quickly recognize will provide that.

[+Chrysalides]

I'd agree with amianda in her observation. Among the forums that I do hang around, this one is the second most hostile. The only one worse I mainly go there for comic relief (the flaming gets so ridiculous it is hilarious).

 

If a forum gets too hostile I can always choose not to visit it. The main reason I come here is that there is a lot of useful knowledge. I have learned a lot reading the posts. That is worth reading through the occasional snarky post. Even those helps me think about what my position is on many issues.

 

And, of course, Vinny's posts are usually good for cheering me up. It makes me happy knowing there are others more insane than I am

[Mr.Yuck]

Half my hate mail says that the forums are over-moderated. The other half of my hate mail consists of "where are the moderators to stop this?" messages.

 

I figure that, so long as the balance stays at around 50/50, the moderators are probably doing OK. We have to balance the benefits of a free and open discussion with the inevitable disagreements and flames that emerge from those discussions.

 

Also, we are equipped with kevlar flak jackets and a generous supply of admin bricks. Go ahead, look it up. That's right from the forum guidelines.

 

I had no idea you even received hate mail. Thanks for the idea though.

 

You can put me down in the over-moderated column, by the way.

[Mr.Yuck]

Regardless of the comparative coarseness of other online groups, amianda's point is well-taken. The discussion here is frequently argument-for-argument's sake, with nasty debating tactics taking the place of real discussion. Deliberate misunderstanding, selective quoting, reductio ad absurdum, holier-than-thou posturing and hair-trigger offense-taking are pretty standard techniques of many of the most active forum posters.

 

That said, there are some truly nice, really fun, obviously talented people who post here. It's just a miracle that they get a word in edgewise.

 

Thank you, Mule Ears, this is exactly what i meant. I'm by no means saying this is the worst forum out there - far from it - but alot of the responses to people's questions and concerns are similar in tone to the majority of the answers I'm getting to this one, even tho the topics vary by quite alot. IE, 'there's no problem because there's worse out there'. Which, quite frankly, is kinda silly. There's no reason to be mean, so don't be mean, just because it's less mean than the ones over at http://forums.i-hate-everyone.com.

 

You know?

 

Anyway, just making an observation. No big deal

 

Well, you obviously are familiar with other forums if your signature warns us of your thread killing abilities. Between that and Mule Ears' post, I will take that under advisement. I hearby resolve to be less meaner.

 

Mudfrog's response, and what he bolded in your original post got me thinking of one recent thread in particular that is probably one of those you're talking about. It was how newbies tend to "report" things that aren't really a problem. Someone also went on to observe many newb's tend to post blatant spoiler information, and myself and others agreed. No newbs were injured in that thread; just observations. If you didn't see that, or it's not a thread you were referring to, that wasn't too bad of a tangent.

 

Besides, being a noob is no big deal. I was called "newbie" and subject to scorn and ridicule when I joined the Army in 1983. And that was even before Al Gore invented the Internet.

[Trinity's Crew]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Where's the fun in that?

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Where's the fun in that?

 

Thank goodness we don't all think alike! What would the fun be in that? Seriously, reading about how all of you think differently is what has propelled me along to this day. I've learned a lot about how to deal with different perspectives and even applied it to putting caches out (imagine that! LOL) on the trail. I've learned what NOT to do which is priceless when trying to ensure my actions benefit the community. I've also taken a thrashing or two for feeling the way I do. In some instances it only reinforced my beliefs, in others, it opened my eyes. You have to take the good with the bad to grow though.

[+amianda]

Quick splatter response here as I see i've missed some good points.

 

Vinny:

So, you may wish to take some of the interchanges here with a bit of a grain of salt. And, you gotta realize that the entire forum really has only about seven unique members, and the rest of the so-called accounts which post here are merely sock puppets (I myself operate about 414 sock puppet accounts on this forum; enabled largely by some clandestine assistance from ICANN.)!

I have to tell you I LOLed a great deal at this particular comment, but I was so busy yesterday I forgot to tell you. Then I told my husband and he LOLed too. Thanks for keeping it light.

 

StarBrand:

Having said that - I know we as a group do get out of line now and again - and it is proper that a person such as yourself should point that out to us. So we can take a moment to reflect on our attitudes before continuing to post. So - thanks!

This is exactly the intent of this thread. I'm not having a problem, personally, with anyone or anything, I just noticed some unnecessary hostility and was trying to point it out. Others' comments that it's ok here because it's worse elsewhere is not helpful or constructive. Just because someone else does something wrong doesn't mean it's ok to do something similar just because it's 'less' wrong... Let's all *try* to be, in the words of Bill and Ted, 'excellent to each other'.

 

TheWhiteUrkel:

No, I haven't seen that particular thread. I saw several threads, some which I alluded to in my original post and some which i didn't, that prompted me to write about various attitudes. It wasn't just one or two threads, honest. Also, I'm not ashamed of my N003 status, it just is what it is. My point in saying that I was a newbie was too point out that maybe first impressions of these fora aren't what old-timers think they should be. If I've been here a week or so and have noticed this, maybe other newbies feel the same way. Maybe people lurk and rarely post because of this issue, or at least in part because of it. A private email I received in response to this thread seems to indicate that, at least.

 

fox-and-the-hound:

Thank goodness we don't all think alike! What would the fun be in that? Seriously, reading about how all of you think differently is what has propelled me along to this day.

This was in response to my "Can't we all just get along?" statement. I'm very very glad we all don't think alike. That would make for boring conversation and boring hides. But 'getting along' and 'thinking alike' are two different concepts. Getting along implies that we make an effort for peaceful friendly conversation, whatever the topic or whatever our actual opinions are. It doesn't mean not having disagreements. It means having them in civil, polite ways that gets the point across without demeaning our fellow cachemates. I'm glad we don't all think alike, too, just wish we could get along a bit better while we were thinking differently.

 

If I've missed anyone's comments, I'm sorry. It was honestly not my intent to cause a debate with this topic (though as I stated in the subtopic I sort of expected it), I just wanted to point out what new members of this forum probably saw when they came here, using my own experiences as a guide.

 

I love reading the topics here because, as someone else pointed out, there is tons of great information and ideas here. But the negativity hurts my brain a little.

 

Thanks for your attention!

[+wesleykey]

I've been on these forums for about a week, maybe more, and I have to say that I'm surprised by the negativity around here a little bit.

 

Which explains why I left another forum and came here. It's not bad here at all compared to some other areas....

[sdarken]

When I first started visiting the forums I remember thinking the same thing as the OP about the amount of hostility. After a while you get used to it and I find it's easiest to stop reading a thread when it devolves into a back-and-forth between a few people.

 

Actually I was thinking that, hypothetically, things might be much-improved in regard to the amount of hostility if the forum would automatically lock a thread after a thread reached a point where people's post contained 4 levels of

It's seems that multiple levels of quoting signals that a thread is getting out of hand.

 

When people are passionate about a topic (or passionate about trying to "win" an argument) I guess that it's understandable that discussions sometimes go this way. The only way to stop it is by heavy-handed moderation and that can also get ugly especially when long-standing members get banned.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

Actually I was thinking that, hypothetically, things might be much-improved in regard to the amount of hostility if the forum would automatically lock a thread after a thread reached a point where people's post contained 4 levels of {quotes} It's seems that multiple levels of quoting signals that a thread is getting out of hand.

 

When people are passionate about a topic (or passionate about trying to "win" an argument) I guess that it's understandable that discussions sometimes go this way. The only way to stop it is by heavy-handed moderation and that can also get ugly especially when long-standing members get banned.

 

I feel the same way. I guess that puts me in the "not enough moderation" camp. It's sad to see the same handful of members pull out the same bag of negative energy every time a particular issue comes up. It's even worse to see the troll baiting that happens when a oft-seen topic resurfaces- comments like "well I know that so-and-so will disagree and post about bla bla bla bla". There's no need for these preemptive strikes against other people's opinions and it's at that point that I usually stop reading the thread- and where I wish a few bricks would get thrown.

 

But overall, there are much more combative forums on the internet(s).

Edited March 24, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+Renegade Knight]

...Mostly it's not personal....

 

It's not personal. I hate everyone. If you can get past that, I'll make you laugh with wit and charm.

 

Most folks can't, but that's by design. Mostly I love a good debate.

[knowschad]

It's not bad here at all compared to some other areas....

 

I've been online since early BBS days and I totally disagree that this is better than others. Sure, the unmoderated USENET groups were pretty bad, but to take a look at the worst and say "we're not so bad because we're better than those guys" is faulty logic.

 

This forum, in my opinion could use some better behavior, but I'm also sure that this thread isn't going to change that behavior.

Edited March 24, 2009 by knowschad

[namiboy]

what does 'list attitude' mean?

[+Don_J]

It's not bad here at all compared to some other areas....

 

I've been online since early BBS days and I totally disagree that this is better than others. Sure, the unmoderated USENET groups were pretty bad, but to take a look at the worst and say "we're not so bad because we're better than those guys" is faulty logic.

 

This forum, in my opinion could use some better behavior, but I'm also sure that this thread isn't going to change that behavior.

 

Bravo, it's as lame as saying, "but officer, everyone was going 80 mph". I find the early trend in the discussion, that "we're not as bad as the rest" to be disturbing. The OP was clearly sharing her concerns and trying to bring up the standards. I think that she put some people on notice and this was their only valid response.

 

That being said, I qualify myself by saying that I have read this forum for far longer than I have posted to it. It has always been my MO to "lurk" and get a basic perspective on the attitude and personalities involved before getting myself involved. I have also learned by reading this forum that there are vast regional attitudes about how different Geocaching topics should be handled. What is right for the foothills of the Appalachia may not particularly fit the high county of the Rockies, the dessert on Nevada or the urban basin of Los Angeles. I have also learned that the majority of people that have been long term participates, and contribute the bulk of the forum posts, are not from my region, therefore disagreements in perspective are bound to be an issue, (but only if I insist)

 

Are the forums, or more specifically, the "Geocaching Topics" forum hostile? I'm sorry to say that my first impression was yes. While others have stated that they have been involved with Internet forums going back to 1983, (is that you Al Gore), I have been involved in many different aspects since about 1992. I have experienced the free-form platform of Usenet. I have seen hostility, and I can put it into perspective.

 

I think that the biggest problem that a lot of people on Internet forums, (in general), have is they think that EVERY question or topic of discussion is to be seen as a debate that has to be won. A early reply in this thread mentioned valid debate tactics. This is great, but debate tactics are not necessary when someone is merely asking for advice.

 

I enjoy these forums, but I really have to be honest. I'm glad that I discovered and participated in Geocaching, before discovering the forums. I learned about Geocaching by reading the logs on my local caches. I learned about the local Geographers by reading their logs. I started to get a perspective, (there's that word again), on how Geocaching worked in my area, and I started to get a perspective, and made certain assumptions about my local cachers and how things were done around here. When a very prolific local cacher, and her collaborator, hosted an event, I attended. I found that I was right on on half of them and totally off on the others, but I also found a bunch of experienced cachers, half of which, I meet up on a frequently basis.

 

BTW, one of the contributors to the thread is a frequent hiking partner. While on the trail, we have been known to discuss recent issues on these forums. Since he has been involved much longer than I, he has often talked to me about he history of Geocaching and the different trends that had developed through the Geocaching forums. The thing is, we disagree on about half of the issues, and we have had mile long debates over them, but we have always kept smiles on our faces as we respect, and understand each others points of view. I think that this aspect of things gets easily lost in the vast faceless world of the Internet.

[+amianda]

what does 'list attitude' mean?

 

attitude of people on the list/forums?

[+Yno]

It seems to me that it is rather difficult to sum up the "attitude" of a forum with more than 400,000 members and 3 millions posts. I am not a real heavy poster, but I have been following the forum closely for more than two years (still a newbie!). The forum appears to be a pretty close approximation of any large group of people. Some people like to argue, some like to brag, some like to complain, some do it all. You move into a new neighborhood and you probably won't like every single person, and you probably won't change anyone's basic character by pointing out their flaws. I too appreciate the wealth of knowledge to be gained from the posters here, new and old alike, but I also enjoy a bit of witty repartee once in a while. If the thread gets too personal or obnoxious, I simply find another. But this is all just my opinion, and is worth every penny you have paid for it.

 

Actually, I tend to doubt there are as many members as the statistic would have you believe. I think Vinny left the ,000 off his quantity of 414 sock puppets. He is a very busy guy!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

It seems to me that it is rather difficult to sum up the "attitude" of a forum with more than 400,000 members and 3 millions posts. I am not a real heavy poster, but I have been following the forum closely for more than two years (still a newbie!). The forum appears to be a pretty close approximation of any large group of people. Some people like to argue, some like to brag, some like to complain, some do it all. You move into a new neighborhood and you probably won't like every single person, and you probably won't change anyone's basic character by pointing out their flaws. I too appreciate the wealth of knowledge to be gained from the posters here, new and old alike, but I also enjoy a bit of witty repartee once in a while. If the thread gets too personal or obnoxious, I simply find another. But this is all just my opinion, and is worth every penny you have paid for it.

 

Actually, I tend to doubt there are as many members as the statistic would have you believe. I think Vinny left the ,000 off his quantity of 414 sock puppets. He is a very busy guy!

First, let me say that I agree with your first paragraph. Personally, while I feel free to state my opinions strongly, I never argue and engage in the nested-post nit-picking debating that some people love to do. That would not only be boring and tiring for me, but I am so allergic to such things that I would vomit all over my keyboard (and the cat on it) if I tried.

 

Next, yes, privately, I can admit that I own about 11,000 sock puppets that are at least occasionally active on this forum, but many of them are very poorly maintained. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. It is just so very hard to keep track of so many sock puppet accounts. (BTW, before you decide too quickly that I am joking, there are people who have been caught/busted while operating many thousands of sock puppets on Wikipedia and on a few other websites and forums; at one time in a previous post I shared some of the more bizarre examples of such behaviors.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I think one of the most interesting things I've learned about the forums are that a lot of the "heated" conversations are rarely actually angst ridden at all and more teasing banter between long time vets of this arena. I was incredibly intimidated initially by some of the people who post here regularly in wildly heated debates (often with the same antagonists going at each other for days) and was later totally floored to meet them in person laughing, hanging out together and having a good time enjoying each others company. I think much is lost in translation sometimes. We probably forget that people haven't read the previously referrred to comments from thread X about 2 months back (or 2 years back - lol) so a lot of what transpires sounds worse than it is. Sarcasm also runs rampant around here and it's hard to pick up on all of it without knowing the people better. Thanks for your input on a view from new eyes as we sometimes forget what it was like.

[+Chrysalides]

Next, yes, privately, I can admit that I own about 11,000 sock puppets that are at least occasionally active on this forum

But you forgot to count the sock puppet accounts owned by some of the sock puppet accounts....

[+gdpsych]

This community is one of the best if not the best I've found on the net. Have a question? Ask. Have a need to vent? Keep it clean and explain in the post (some of these !!!! and these . I've been to forums where i ask (for example) what are some thoughts about a CB Radio, a firearm,radio scanner ETC. and have had everything from myself to my family insulted just for posting a question. This is a great place.

[+Albanysquad]

[

Amianda, I always enjoy your posts, and, in this case, my seasoned response is "...whatever!"

 

I have long been a member, since 1983 of numerous forums and list groups and related thingies on the Internet and Internet predecessors such as Bitnet, etc., and I also operate (as list owner) 46 email list groups, some of them very large and devoted to some very controversial topics which tend to attract flamers, fundamentalists (can you tell that I have no patience for fundamentalists of ANY ilk?) and fanatics. I can tell you from long experience that, with one exception (a rather tightly-moderated list group for Toyota Corolla owners where EVERONE is super-respectful and kind at all times; they must be on some kinda drug or something), this is BY FAR the mellowest and most peaceful forum I have ever seen on the Internet.

 

In fact, to give you some idea of the tone and tenor of some other forums and list groups, I have been on a number of such venues where members regularly utter death threats and threats of dismembement or decapitation against each other, and, since I am well-known in certain fields, I have myself been the subject of death threats in some of those forums. My FAVORITE story in this regard, which I have told before, is one where a guy (a product vendor) who claimed to be a "scientific researcher" uttered death threats against me because I issued a very critical report on one of his water filter products. To my utter glee, he was shot to death by a SWAT team at midnight on a cold November night in a motel parking lot in Parker, Colorado just 2.5 years later, in 2007, as police were trying to apprehend him in order to question him as the prime suspect in a double homicide. What goes around, comes around!

 

So, you may wish to take some of the interchanges here with a bit of a grain of salt. And, you gotta realize that the entire forum really has only about seven unique members, and the rest of the so-called accounts which post here are merely sock puppets (I myself operate about 414 sock puppet accounts on this forum; enabled largely by some clandestine assistance from ICANN.)!

 

In fact, I am having a hard time at the moment remembering if your account is real or if it is merely one of my sock puppets...

 

In closing, about the only person to be VERY CAREFUL of here is the one named "Sioneva" -- it is no accident that many of us call her "Sionevil". She is downright scary!

 

.

 

I haven't been around here long, but after I read this post I knew who posted it without looking at the name - Vinny and Sue always have the best stories that, in a roundabout way, tell something insightful about the topic at hand.

[+ThePetersTrio]

It's not bad here at all compared to some other areas....

 

I've been online since early BBS days and I totally disagree that this is better than others. Sure, the unmoderated USENET groups were pretty bad, but to take a look at the worst and say "we're not so bad because we're better than those guys" is faulty logic.

 

This forum, in my opinion could use some better behavior, but I'm also sure that this thread isn't going to change that behavior.

 

Bravo, it's as lame as saying, "but officer, everyone was going 80 mph". I find the early trend in the discussion, that "we're not as bad as the rest" to be disturbing. The OP was clearly sharing her concerns and trying to bring up the standards. I think that she put some people on notice and this was their only valid response.

 

I couldn't agree more with this and with the OP. And in my observation, it is not just the same few people who debate until the death any given subject....you'll find these types on any given message board. What I see that is somewhat disturbing is the way some relative newbie posters are treated when they have the audacity to ask a question or share an experience. It happened to me way back when and I've seen it happen to others with some regularity. I've even been harassed via PM for expressing my opinion openly. That is why most of the time I just lurk except on the geocoin section where the discussions - for the most part - are more positive and less antagonistic.

 

I've even had cachers local to me comment that this board is not any place they'd like to spend time because of the attitude they've gotten when they've posted here. I just think it's sad really because as someone said before me, new cachers are the lifeblood of keeping this sport continuing to grow. Guidance and support is an extremely valuable thing that more experienced cachers can provide. It seems there are always a few who will spoil things for the many.

 

Thick skins are all well and good to have in life but when people post here for help, they shouldn't have to don armor or dodge what are often rude and snarky comments from some of the regulars.

 

I honestly don't see that much will change because people generally aren't willing to take a good hard look at themselves and admit they may be part of the problem. But I certainly appreciate the OP's POV and find her to be brave for being willing to voice what so many of us simply have thought and kept to ourselves many many times.

[+BoggyWoggy]

Awesome topic...

I love reading the forums, but post my thoughts less and less, after seeing such nastiness from know-it-alls. For example, if someone brings up a common topic, there are always at least 10 folks who mention that this is old news and that there is a previous posting to go to, rather than starting a new thread.

Step off.

This is a forum for folks. You don't have to reply to someone's new thread of an old topic. If you are expecting continuous new information, create a thread for that, but allow others, even newbies, to start a discussion of choice.

Ugh.

[+mattalbr]

Agree with BoggyWoggy. If you don't have anything good to type, don't type it. Why folks exert energy to make snide remarks/comments or bicker is beyond me. To be fair, I see it on every board that I belong to. There's always a few stinkers in the mix. They usually go into the 'ignore user' list if one is available.

[+Castle Mischief]

Awesome topic...

I love reading the forums, but post my thoughts less and less, after seeing such nastiness from know-it-alls. For example, if someone brings up a common topic, there are always at least 10 folks who mention that this is old news and that there is a previous posting to go to, rather than starting a new thread.

Step off.

This is a forum for folks. You don't have to reply to someone's new thread of an old topic. If you are expecting continuous new information, create a thread for that, but allow others, even newbies, to start a discussion of choice.

Ugh.

 

Take a stroll over to the TB forum and take note of the repeat threads that are clearly visible on the first and second page- even in the presence of several FAQs stickied at the top of the page. Understand that at some point it can get frustrating for other members.

 

If somebody posts in a repeat thread and gives you links to the previous threads they are doing you a service, they are pointing out to you that the topic has history and perhaps the issue has indeed, been talked to death. Discussions get disjointed and confusing if they are spread amongst multiple threads. If a thread already exists then the discussion is often better served by (reading it first and) posting in that pre-existing thread.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Awesome topic...

I love reading the forums, but post my thoughts less and less, after seeing such nastiness from know-it-alls. For example, if someone brings up a common topic, there are always at least 10 folks who mention that this is old news and that there is a previous posting to go to, rather than starting a new thread.

Step off.

This is a forum for folks. You don't have to reply to someone's new thread of an old topic. If you are expecting continuous new information, create a thread for that, but allow others, even newbies, to start a discussion of choice.

Ugh.

 

Take a stroll over to the TB forum and take note of the repeat threads that are clearly visible on the first and second page- even in the presence of several FAQs stickied at the top of the page. Understand that at some point it can get frustrating for other members.

 

If somebody posts in a repeat thread and gives you links to the previous threads they are doing you a service, they are pointing out to you that the topic has history and perhaps the issue has indeed, been talked to death. Discussions get disjointed and confusing if they are spread amongst multiple threads. If a thread already exists then the discussion is often better served by (reading it first and) posting in that pre-existing thread.

I agree with your points wholeheartedly. Many folks deliberately try to abuse the medium by starting yet one more thread about the claimed "evils of PMO caches", or begging for the site to re-institute virtual caches, or begging the site to re-institute webcam caches, or any of a dozen other topics that have already been beaten to death (and then some), and it is certainly not wrong to call them on this and point them toward the numerous pre-existing threads on the topic.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

For a time I was a regular visitor to rec.skiing.alpine on Usenet. The most innocuous threads there asking for advice about where to ski or what brand of boot to buy degenerate into the most incredibly vile name calling imaginable within 3-4 posts. Participants in that forum have lost jobs, had their tires slashed, received death threats and have been the target of court rulings prohibiting them from posting there. No exaggeration, just check it out and you will be amazed.

 

Yeah, we can get worked up here over the issue of micros, virtuals or lousy cache contents, but it's really quite benign compared to what else is out there.

 

I don't recall ever following rec.skiing.alpine but I did participate in rec.skiing for quite awhile before it split.

 

I could probably just agree with others regarding the relative tameness of the geocaching forums compared to Usenet (I starting participating in Usenet around 1985) but I thought I'd add something else.

 

Amianda's OP seems to be mostly directed to those that have participated in the forums for awhile and their behavior towards newbies.

 

As is the case for any online forum, the general tone of the forum often has a history and has been formed by those that have been actively participating in the forum for a long period of time. Like it or not, "old timers" in a forum have vested more time and contributed more to the forum, and the general atmosphere, than someone newly visiting. Maybe it is "too hostile", but it got to the way it is due to the contributions of those that have participated in the past. While it's clear that Amianda's post is well-meaning, when newbies come into a forum and write "I don't like the way you are running your forum, change it now" they're likely going to be met with a bit of resistance by those that have invested time and energy in the forum. It's like walking into country and western bar and complaining that the juke box doesn't have enough show tunes. The kind of music one finds on a juke box in a Country and Western bar has been determined by past clientele and the opinion of someone that walks in for the first time is probably not going to carry much weight and is probably going to be met with a lot of hostility if they're vehement in expressing it.

[+Bad Duck]

Since it seems as if most everyone is in agreement that there really is nothing that hasn't been discussed to death. I propose that starting new threads get locked. Except those that get submitted to the "know it alls" that form a committee to decide if any new thread has merit. This will give the heavy posting know it alls something else to do than slam newbies for starting rehashed threads. *G*

[knowschad]

Awesome topic...

I love reading the forums, but post my thoughts less and less, after seeing such nastiness from know-it-alls. For example, if someone brings up a common topic, there are always at least 10 folks who mention that this is old news and that there is a previous posting to go to, rather than starting a new thread.

Step off.

This is a forum for folks. You don't have to reply to someone's new thread of an old topic. If you are expecting continuous new information, create a thread for that, but allow others, even newbies, to start a discussion of choice.

Ugh.

 

Take a stroll over to the TB forum and take note of the repeat threads that are clearly visible on the first and second page- even in the presence of several FAQs stickied at the top of the page. Understand that at some point it can get frustrating for other members.

 

If somebody posts in a repeat thread and gives you links to the previous threads they are doing you a service, they are pointing out to you that the topic has history and perhaps the issue has indeed, been talked to death. Discussions get disjointed and confusing if they are spread amongst multiple threads. If a thread already exists then the discussion is often better served by (reading it first and) posting in that pre-existing thread.

 

Ever known anyone that, when you ask a question, sighs and says, "If I've told you once, I've told you a hundred times", or "sigh... LIKE I SAID..." ?

 

You can't honestly ask everyone that is coming here to ask a question to do a thorough forum search first. Besides, some things just can't be searched for, or maybe are to be found on the 20th page of a 21 page thread. Not everyone that comes here to ask a question hangs out here like some of us do.

[+Bad Duck]

It's like walking into country and western bar and complaining that the juke box doesn't have enough show tunes

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I'd say it's more like picking a song on that jukebox and then being run out because the regular patrons are tired of hearing that song.