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Logic behind "Premium members only" caches


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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

Edited by Menehune2
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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

Personally, I've done it twice. In both cases it was to keep traffic down on caches that required dead-end street parking, and to avoid disturbing the neighbors. One has had the restriction removed, as it became apparent traffic was extremely low for a two leg multi that involved a one mile round trip hike, and the other is archived.

 

And of course the conversation will pretty much go on with people saying that MOC's are placed to "reward" premium members. The fact that MOC caches are only one of dozens of benefits of a premium membership, will go unnoticed, as will the fact that well under 5% of the over 2,000,000 world-wide accounts of Geocaching.com are premium.

 

MOC's were created in 2002 I believe, and pretty much the reason given is they can be helpful at combatting cache maggots (people who purposely mess with caches). Which is true, for the most part. This is also the reason there is an audit log, where you can see who viewed your cache page and how many times, so as you can unjustly accuse them of stealing the cache, or geocoins. :blink:

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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You asked a valid question. I would like to explain why some of my caches are PMO. I am always willing to allow any cacher who finds my caches to log a find. Always. However, we had a big problem with local caches being vandalized, and by putting the few nearest ones on PMO I was able to see who was checking out the cache from the audit link. It's a very helpful tool!

Anytime someone contacts me and asks permission to log the PMO find (if they are not PM), I gladly allow them to.

I want my caches found, but there are a few I want to keep a closer eye on. I hope that explanation helps. :blink:

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

:blink:

 

I'll bite :anitongue: ,

 

My best hides are all premium member caches. I've hidden 127 caches and my Premium caches last longer, and retain a better quality of trade items. Most of my best caches require significant effort be it long hikes, or tough puzzles, and long hikes. This is a factor that can and does contribute to these caches lasting longer.

 

When I first started geocaching (May 2004) the website was very simplistic. Over the years Gorundspeak has made substantial improvements along the way. I personally feel premium members are the best supporters of this site. I've been a premium member since June of 04, and I like to share my caches other site supporters. $30.00 per year is hardly an elitist club. I consider caches hidden that require boats, scuba gear, or mountaineering gear are more elitist than Premium member caches.

 

To date, I have never onced deleted the log of a regular member who found my cache while caching with premium members.

 

Be aware that this topic is one of the most heated topics in the forum.

 

What's the Beef about PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY caches?

 

Premium member cache questions.

 

Deleting Logs of Premium Members -- is this allowed?

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

Edited by Kit Fox
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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

I'd like to ask you a question...

 

What is your resistance to becoming a premium member?

 

You get more than enough benefits to cover the cost. At $30/yr that works out to less than $.10/day; surely you can recycle 2 soda cans a day and pay for it. The owners of this website have not only put in many many hours of hard work, but also money to get this whole thing going. It costs money to register and maintain this website. it costs money(whether directly or in man hours) to write and maintain the software and the site. Do you expect the owners of geocaching.com to do all this work for free for years and years?

 

$30/yr is really nothing when compared to what you get in return.

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

I'll respond to this by first stating that all of the above questions are not from someone who is," fairly new to caching." Ok, here's the logic behind why all of our caches are PMO....First: We spend our hard earned money on containers, camo tape, paint, wire, logbooks, pens/pencils, swag etc...Second:We spend hours over days in the field placing our hides. Third: I spend hours on our cache pages, take a look. Fourth: We visit/maintain our caches on a regular basis which is why we have ZERO, "Needs Maintenance," logs posted on our cache pages.

 

Fifth: Foremost, we use the GC.com site EVERY SINGLE DAY and so we pay for it. If you want to hunt our caches cough up the $30 for the year and pay your dues to the site. Most of you spend more than that in a week at Starbucks !

 

We spend the cash and put out the effort to hide our caches so if you want to hunt them you have to spend the cash too. Why should you get to hunt our hides for free ? Why should you get to use the site for free ? Tell me about one other thing in your life that's free !

 

If all 75 of our caches sat forever with nobody looking for them because nobody wanted to cough up the $30, then so be it, they would sit.

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

I'll respond to this by first stating that all of the above questions are not from someone who is," fairly new to caching." Ok, here's the logic behind why all of our caches are PMO....First: We spend our hard earned money on containers, camo tape, paint, wire, logbooks, pens/pencils, swag etc...Second:We spend hours over days in the field placing our hides. Third: I spend hours on our cache pages, take a look. Fourth: We visit/maintain our caches on a regular basis which is why we have ZERO, "Needs Maintenance," logs posted on our cache pages.

 

Fifth: Foremost, we use the GC.com site EVERY SINGLE DAY and so we pay for it. If you want to hunt our caches cough up the $30 for the year and pay your dues to the site. Most of you spend more than that in a week at Starbucks !

 

We spend the cash and put out the effort to hide our caches so if you want to hunt them you have to spend the cash too. Why should you get to hunt our hides for free ? Why should you get to use the site for free ? Tell me about one other thing in your life that's free !

 

If all 75 of our caches sat forever with nobody looking for them because nobody wanted to cough up the $30, then so be it, they would sit.

 

Wow! By fairly new I mean 150 caches over the past year. Since I have been unemployed the last 6 months Geocaching was a activity I could enjoy for nothing more than the cost of a bike ride.

The 4 caches I have placed I have done lots of work to make them quality hides and even spent some money on items that weren't recycled! My caches are maintained and I too have no "needs maintenance" status. I hid them because I enjoyed the sport and wanted to give something back.

30$ is about what I spend on my weekly groceries , any coffee would be a luxury item for me, let alone starbucks. Thats great that your a premium member and I'm not complaining about not being able to go after your caches ( less than 1% here) I was just curious as to reasons! Of course money is not a issue if you have it, and when its not I will be a premium member. I use the site for free because of what they offer for free, and as of now I don't need the extra luxury items.

I got to say that some of the joy I felt for the sport has been tainted by some of the cocky attitudes I read here on the forums today.

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

I'd like to ask you a question...

 

What is your resistance to becoming a premium member?

 

You get more than enough benefits to cover the cost. At $30/yr that works out to less than $.10/day; surely you can recycle 2 soda cans a day and pay for it. The owners of this website have not only put in many many hours of hard work, but also money to get this whole thing going. It costs money to register and maintain this website. it costs money(whether directly or in man hours) to write and maintain the software and the site. Do you expect the owners of geocaching.com to do all this work for free for years and years?

 

$30/yr is really nothing when compared to what you get in return.

 

Where does it say he is "resisting" becoming a Premium Member???

 

At no time did he say he was resisting becoming a PM. He simply asked a question about PMO caches.

 

Don't assume he is "resisting" becoming a PM. As he pointed out, he is fairly new to caching and trying to understand things.

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For me, they give an extra layer of protection against thieves.

 

You asked a valid question. I would like to explain why some of my caches are PMO. I am always willing to allow any cacher who finds my caches to log a find. Always. However, we had a big problem with local caches being vandalized, and by putting the few nearest ones on PMO I was able to see who was checking out the cache from the audit link. It's a very helpful tool!

Anytime someone contacts me and asks permission to log the PMO find (if they are not PM), I gladly allow them to.

I want my caches found, but there are a few I want to keep a closer eye on. I hope that explanation helps. :blink:

+1

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Wow! By fairly new I mean 150 caches over the past year. Since I have been unemployed the last 6 months Geocaching was a activity I could enjoy for nothing more than the cost of a bike ride.

The 4 caches I have placed I have done lots of work to make them quality hides and even spent some money on items that weren't recycled! My caches are maintained and I too have no "needs maintenance" status. I hid them because I enjoyed the sport and wanted to give something back.

30$ is about what I spend on my weekly groceries , any coffee would be a luxury item for me, let alone starbucks. Thats great that your a premium member and I'm not complaining about not being able to go after your caches ( less than 1% here) I was just curious as to reasons! Of course money is not a issue if you have it, and when its not I will be a premium member. I use the site for free because of what they offer for free, and as of now I don't need the extra luxury items.

I got to say that some of the joy I felt for the sport has been tainted by some of the cocky attitudes I read here on the forums today.

 

You were warned the attitudes that would jump out at you, however for the most part you got some valid answers buried amongst few agendas.

 

You have some good reasons for holding off right now on Premium Membership, don't let any of us bully you otherwise, keep your eye on your priorities. When you can, I hope you will jump back in as a PM to help support the site. For now, there are other ways such as getting some good hides out there.

 

Some of the reasons given are not valid from my experience. Cache security for one. Most of the caches in our area disappear because they were stumbled upon by someone not knowing what it was, kids, clean-up workers, etc.

 

Also, while there are some very great PMO caches out there, as there are some great non-PMO, for the most part the majority are very pedestrian and do not stand out as that much different.

 

To answer your OP more specifically, PMO offer you an audit log. Some like to see who is looking at their caches. I think most will admit it is more of a curiosity thing, but valid none the less. There are some that will make their cache a MOC to let PM's find it for a while before opening it up to the public, sort of a way to reward people for contributing.

 

My feeling is caches were made to be found and if you offer a good product, such as GS has here (excellent actually), the support will come. If GC were to make PM a requirement or the majority of caches became PM only, GS would suffer greatly.

 

There are many benefits to PM but just to find the few MOC's out there I think most will agree should not be the sole reason. Keep hunting, there is enough to keep you busy out there. When you can, become a PM again.

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I've got 4 in a short series, (maybe not the best term...) I PMO'd them because I was having a problem with expensive (relative term) cache cointainers or signature caches disappearing and was trying to keep them around longer. I'll probably go in sometime soon and remove the PMO.

 

It is a great way to test a cache and get solid feedback before the masses start lobbing rocks at you.

 

I have no issue with non PM cachers, excepting the cache and coin maggots. I choose to be premium, some choose not. (There I go being elitest)

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We've never had to worry about vandals (except maybe a squirrel or two). We found the audit log useful to gauge interest for a couple of our caches that require significant effort. That helped us decide whether it was worth the effort to hide more. Once the usefulness of the audit log was gone, we opened it up to all. We may not continue to do that, but it worked well for those caches.

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Also consider that some cache challenges are most easily completed by using Premium Member features such as Pocket Queries, Bookmark Lists, and Caches-Along-A-Route. And restricting a cache could lessen the chance that a new cacher mistakenly finds the cache without meeting the ALR.

 

I once saw where a new cacher logged a Fizzy Challenge as his very first find. Fortunately, it did not discourage him after his first find was deleted. Should I feel guilty for finding humor in someone getting their first find deleted? :blink: Nah, that's funny! :anitongue:

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

If you are sensing a lot of sarcastic or harsh responses to your post, it is simply because your thread is simply the latest in a long series of threads on this topic that have, frankly, totally beaten this topic to death over the past four years. Feel free to review and read the earlier threads on the matter; they are all in the archives.

 

For ourselves, we own over 30 caches, and almost all of them are Premium member only caches, and, in particular, all of my Psycho Urban Caches and my tougher Psycho Backcountry caches are all PMO caches. We do this for many reasons, including all of the following:

  • to keep casual browsers/visitors, some of whom may be very immature or malicious, to the Groundspeak site from being able to view the cache listing page and cache specifics.
  • to help to keep cache maggots and pirates from noticing our caches.
  • to help to keep grossly unqualified and underskilled persons from seeking the cache and possibly getting injured or dying.
  • to restrict visits to the cache only to Premium members, thus limiting traffic and also maintaining higher swag quality.
  • to reward Premium members for expressing their gratitude to Groundspeak by maintaining a Premium membership.
  • to help to provide a wee bit of incentive to non-Premium members to become Premium members and to thus express their gratitude to Groundspeak, to the cache owner, and to the entire geo community for this excellent listing service.
  • LATE ADD: Oh, and I love the audit logs! I use them to geo-stalk Sioneva!

I feel that it very much helps the sport to list a great number of the better or tougher caches, and even normal-quality caches, as PMO caches.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Thanks to everyone who answered the question and dint make this into a membership debate. I had no idea about the audit log, thats a neat feature. I'm glad to see that the majority of people out there were helpful.

 

I think when I get my membership my new caches maybe open for a day or two, then PMO for a few months and finally open again for the remainder. So far I haven't heard about much vandalism around here so were lucky I guess.

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I am still fairly new to the sport too. I look at it this way.

 

 

There are costs to running Goacaching.com.

 

 

If the service is to not only continue but also improve, then money will need to be raised.

 

 

I want to do my part to ensure that Geocaching.com continue to operate and grow.

 

 

I can become a premium member. ( I already have)

 

 

I can do business with those who advertise on Geocaching.com ( I have)

 

 

I can make some of my better caches members only which gives some incentive to others to become a premium member. ( I plan to when I get some experience at placing caches).

 

 

Doesnt seem that complicated.

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I have better luck with my PMO caches, so far none have been vandelized. I wish I could say the same for my other caches, I've had custom camo painted ammo cans stolen, someone traded one of my ammo cans for a tupperwear bowl, a newbie removed someone's trackables (never to be seen again) from my cache and just wrote obsene language in my log book but did not log the find. I also use PMO caches in places I want to keep the traffic low as not to disturb an area but I like "most" of my caches open to everyone.

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I am always willing to allow any cacher who finds my caches to log a find. Always. However, we had a big problem with local caches being vandalized, and by putting the few nearest ones on PMO I was able to see who was checking out the cache from the audit link. It's a very helpful tool!

Anytime someone contacts me and asks permission to log the PMO find (if they are not PM), I gladly allow them to.

I want my caches found, but there are a few I want to keep a closer eye on. I hope that explanation helps. :lol:

 

All my caches are going to PMO when I deploy to minimize how often I need to rely on a caching friend to maintain them, and give added protection.

 

I also use PMO caches in places I want to keep the traffic low as not to disturb an area but I like "most" of my caches open to everyone.

I have one that I might keep on PMO because of its location- limited parking, on a city right-of-way surrounded by multiple levels of muggles.

 

:laughing:

new_popcornsmiley.gif

Edited by bramasoleiowa
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For me, they give an extra layer of protection against thieves.

 

I have found a good way to provide an extra layer of protection.

 

Make a cache a simple muti or a simple ALR puzzle.

 

Really cuts down on the casual visitor.

Yes, we often do that in addition to the PMO classification. Works like a charm! And, as is true of many owners of really extreme and dangerous caches, we also employ pre-requisite screening for some of our most extreme caches, that is, a prospective finder must have completed at least 5 to 10 of our other extreme 5/5 Psycho caches before they are even able to receive/decode the true waypoint coordinates for the final stage of the super-extreme Psycho cache. Works like a charm! See Psycho Urban Cache #9 and Psycho Urban Cache #14 for sample specimens!

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For me, they give an extra layer of protection against thieves.

 

I have found a good way to provide an extra layer of protection.

 

Make a cache a simple muti or a simple ALR puzzle.

 

Really cuts down on the casual visitor.

Yes, we often do that in addition to the PMO classification. Works like a charm! And, as is true of many owners of really extreme and dangerous caches, we also employ pre-requisite screening for some of our most extreme caches, that is, a prospective finder must have completed at least 5 to 10 of our other extreme 5/5 Psycho caches before they are even able to receive/decode the true waypoint coordinates for the final stage of the super-extreme Psycho cache. Works like a charm! See Psycho Urban Cache #9 and Psycho Urban Cache #14 for sample specimens!

Can you please remove the PMO status for these caches so that we can have a look?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(yeah, I'm joking)

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For me, they give an extra layer of protection against thieves.

 

I have found a good way to provide an extra layer of protection.

 

Make a cache a simple muti or a simple ALR puzzle.

 

Really cuts down on the casual visitor.

Yes, we often do that in addition to the PMO classification. Works like a charm! And, as is true of many owners of really extreme and dangerous caches, we also employ pre-requisite screening for some of our most extreme caches, that is, a prospective finder must have completed at least 5 to 10 of our other extreme 5/5 Psycho caches before they are even able to receive/decode the true waypoint coordinates for the final stage of the super-extreme Psycho cache. Works like a charm! See Psycho Urban Cache #9 and Psycho Urban Cache #14 for sample specimens!

Can you please remove the PMO status for these caches so that we can have a look?

 

(yeah, I'm joking)

:D:P:unsure::blink::laughing::lol:;)

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

I have several PMO caches reason being they are Travel Bug Hotels, and before i had them as PMO many cachers with little or no experience that were not PM would take trackables and then not place them and they would go missing, as a PMO cache I feel the level of cachers have more experience and are more serious about Geocaching.

 

SS

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If I were to place a MOC it would be to keep the riff-raff out of it, plain and simple. Especially if it were in a high-traffic area or a spot where a lot of newbies go.

 

I hope that is sarcasm.

Likely not at all. As many of us have said repeatedly, both in this thread and in numerous others devoted to the same topic, one of about ten good reasons to make a cache PMO is that is PROVEN to drastically reduce the amount of damage by pirates, maggots, thieves, swine riff-raff who leave junk swag, careless cachers and the walking dead (that is, walking idiots who accidentally destroy everything in their path...) This point cannot even be argued, for it is indisputable and proven fact.

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Ok let me just say I'm fairly new to caching but not a premium member yet but I was wondering why some caches are PMO. If you have posted these caches what was your logic behind it. And if you do make PMO caches are all you hides PMO?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible? Do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Or is it a safety issue that you think only dedicated cachers should try? Do you feel it harms or helps the sport to list caches one way or the other?

 

My feeling is if I put hard work into making a challenging cache that few would try I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Again I'm not passing judgement for or against and plan on being a premium member soon. Just curious for why folks decide one way or the other.

 

I have several PMO caches reason being they are Travel Bug Hotels, and before i had them as PMO many cachers with little or no experience that were not PM would take trackables and then not place them and they would go missing, as a PMO cache I feel the level of cachers have more experience and are more serious about Geocaching.

I like this explanation the best,even someone new to the sport such as I can see that there are people who take tb's etc. and do not log them.I moved a bug to a travel bug dump recently and afterwards wished I hadn't because I felt non cache members might find it.Hope it falls into the right hands.
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We've never used the PMO/MOC option for any of our hides, but have been PMs pretty much since we first joined. There are a few advantages to being a PM, and those are well-dissected elsewhere. However, we've felt it neither appropriate or warranted to force others to become PMs just so they can hunt our caches: in our little walnut-sized brains, it just seems that should be left as a choice for folks to make on their own, not a requirement imposed by us. We have first-hand seen how establishing caches as a PMO has detracted from others' enjoyment of the game. They should be just as free to play the game their way as we are to play it ours. Some may argue that to remain a non-PM is their choice, and thus they need to live by the consequences - to that we agree, but we do not care to be party where we don't have to be.

 

As far as the purported advantages for a cache to be PMO, we just don't see it. The "audit trail" has little value to the way we play the game - since we tend to place caches that we would like to find, other's interest or lack thereof as might be inferred (often mistakenly, too) from the number of "hits" isn't really a worthwhile issue. Likewise, the possible value of PMO status as a deterrent to vandalism/destruction of a cache is really pretty low (folks will do what they want to do pretty much regardless, and in a community like this, there is more than ample ingenuity and resourcefulness to bypass the deterrent effect of the audit trail) - as earlier stated, information of that sort is just as conducive to erroneous postulation as it is to any sort of meaningful deduction.

 

[EDIT: corrected typos]

Edited by 3doxies
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I think most of the PMOC angst is in the forums. I know I personally haven't heard any complaining about them, and I really could care less about the status of any particular cache. I don't even notice, although that's probably because I am a PM. I do the PQ, I load it to my GPS, I find the caches, eventually I log the caches and see some were PM only.

 

I'm not usually paying attention to who is and who isn't a PM, and don't really have any idea of who amongst the locals is a lowly regular member. I do know that I've met most of them, and like all of the ones that I've met. We've got a great group of locals here, and I wouldn't want to purposefully exclude someone who was a regular member.

 

One of my easier caches that is a nice walk in a very pretty suburban park, routinely gets logs that are more or less "this was my first ever geocache, and I think I'm going to be hooked!" Those logs make me smile. I'm glad those folks could see my page :laughing:

 

Also, we don't have any problems that I know of, of people purposefully destroying caches. Though some areas do, and thats definitely a reason for making a cache PMO. The TB hotel idea is a good one too, some new folks just don't know what they are yet.

 

In my opinion, the biggest benefit is the audit function. It's cool to be able to see who's working on your puzzles.

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As far as the purported advantages for a cache to be PMO, we just don't see it. The "audit trail" has little value to the way we play the game - since we tend to place caches that we would like to find, other's interest or lack thereof as might be inferred (often mistakenly, too) from the number of "hits" isn't really a worthwhile issue.

I agree with baloo&bd; some great points by the 3doxies. :P One thing to consider, though, is that advantages of MOCs are not always for the hider.

 

Aside from those challenge caches that are most easily completed with Premium features, consider this...

 

Let's say you have a puzzle cache requiring days or weeks of effort for the finders. Perhaps it requires driving to various landmarks :) with significantly difficult puzzle solving at each stage. Now, let's say you are considering archiving it due to few finds.

 

Would it impact your decision to archive if the audit log showed even one determined solver with a high number of consistent "hits"?

 

Like many things, the audit trail has the potential for both good and bad. And like many things, the "bad" is what gets all the press. That said, keep doing whatever you're doing. Just don't archive your new puzzles yet, because we've solved three that we haven't yet found. :)

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I think most of the PMOC angst is in the forums. I know I personally haven't heard any complaining about them, and I really could care less about the status of any particular cache. I don't even notice, although that's probably because I am a PM. I do the PQ, I load it to my GPS, I find the caches, eventually I log the caches and see some were PM only.

 

I'm not usually paying attention to who is and who isn't a PM, and don't really have any idea of who amongst the locals is a lowly regular member. I do know that I've met most of them, and like all of the ones that I've met. We've got a great group of locals here, and I wouldn't want to purposefully exclude someone who was a regular member.

 

One of my easier caches that is a nice walk in a very pretty suburban park, routinely gets logs that are more or less "this was my first ever geocache, and I think I'm going to be hooked!" Those logs make me smile. I'm glad those folks could see my page ;)

 

Also, we don't have any problems that I know of, of people purposefully destroying caches. Though some areas do, and thats definitely a reason for making a cache PMO. The TB hotel idea is a good one too, some new folks just don't know what they are yet.

 

In my opinion, the biggest benefit is the audit function. It's cool to be able to see who's working on your puzzles.

If you wanna play the game, pay the host. The audit function is, "cool," for awhile but after you have so many caches hidden out there, you don't look at the log anymore. PAY THE MAN !!

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I think most of the PMOC angst is in the forums. I know I personally haven't heard any complaining about them, and I really could care less about the status of any particular cache. I don't even notice, although that's probably because I am a PM. I do the PQ, I load it to my GPS, I find the caches, eventually I log the caches and see some were PM only.

 

I'm not usually paying attention to who is and who isn't a PM, and don't really have any idea of who amongst the locals is a lowly regular member. I do know that I've met most of them, and like all of the ones that I've met. We've got a great group of locals here, and I wouldn't want to purposefully exclude someone who was a regular member.

 

One of my easier caches that is a nice walk in a very pretty suburban park, routinely gets logs that are more or less "this was my first ever geocache, and I think I'm going to be hooked!" Those logs make me smile. I'm glad those folks could see my page ;)

 

Also, we don't have any problems that I know of, of people purposefully destroying caches. Though some areas do, and thats definitely a reason for making a cache PMO. The TB hotel idea is a good one too, some new folks just don't know what they are yet.

 

In my opinion, the biggest benefit is the audit function. It's cool to be able to see who's working on your puzzles.

If you wanna play the game, pay the host. The audit function is, "cool," for awhile but after you have so many caches hidden out there, you don't look at the log anymore. PAY THE MAN !!

 

But the "MAN" say I can play for "FREE"!

 

If you don't want me to find yours that's fine by me.

 

But after you find mine you may not find another.

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Hey guys,

 

I have my two penneth to put in but I'll be careful so I don't get linched :blink:

 

Well as a new Geocacher I've been intrigued and fascinated with this activity since I heard about it a few weeks ago. Esp as it allows me to use my trusty iPhone (yes geek I'm afraid:) ) My wife and I have found a good few caches now and we are very quickly getting hooked. What is amazing is that they are everywhere and this all goes on under the noses of most people without them knowing they are there!

 

As I read up on Geocaching I quickly found Geocaching.com to be the largest hub of cachers so seemed the logical place to start.

 

The question of the OP is a question I had myself, and not a loaded one. Simply 'oh what's this premium members option'? It's natural to ask this question and from the posts here it's been answered in a round about way although some are a bit finger wagging by the way you have done it :laughing: but I guess this is a heated subject like some members have forwarned

 

Geocaching sells itself as a free (appart from the requirment for a GPS tracker) activity. There's not mention of any charges on Geocaching.com's front page, wiki or any other reference matertials I looked at to get a bead on what this was all about.

 

But being a savy fellow I know that most hobbies and activities do have a level of involvement from the casual to the 100% dedicated enthusiast and as such you decide your own level of involvement. It's obvious that the people at Groundspeak do tons of work for Geocaching as do the million of members. So even though I was attracted by the 'free' aspect of this hobby I'm now going to become a premium member to give a bit of support to the hobby that has already given my wife and I a great amount of fun. It's not a huge sum of money and if you love something then we always say you should put something back (if you can).

 

Saying that if people don't want to become paying members because a) they can't afford it or B) they just don't do that much Geocaching and are not sure if they will carry on then I totally get that.

 

Some members on this thread have also mentioned an audit trail option on PM so if your sites are getting vandalised I can see why you would want that. Most if not all the vandals will be free members who know the site and take pleasure in wrecking the caches so if has happened to your sites then I guess making them PM only is one way to stop this problem. Just a shame that the decent free members have to miss out because of small minded idiots like these ;)

 

And now my question. I use the Groundspeak application for the iPhone. If I upgrade to premium membership and am able to view the red caches on the website, will the application on my iPhone upgrade and be able to see the premium caches too.

 

I've had a good look and can't see an answer to this question.

 

Happy trails guys :unsure:

 

Merlin

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