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A Wee Bit of Irritation and Dismay at Cachers Who Ask That


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I am shocked, irritated and dismayed.

What? No outrage? Come on, Man! We were really hoping for outrage! :blink:

 

why is this cache available only to Premium paying members, which represent only a tiny fraction of the of the well over 2,000,000 registered accounts at Geocaching.com?

Because the cache owner wanted it to be available only to premium members? That'd be my guess.

The percentage issue seems largely irrelevant to me. What if PMs were 51% of all active accounts? What if they were 91%? 21%? 1%? The issues would be the same. Of those who opted not to become premium members, there would always be a percentage who feel entitled to the same privileges that we are paying for.

 

What you're not understanding is that if someone aspires to make money off of a job that they love, they must be evil, because money's evil.

Right, comrades?

 

This comment is meaningless and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Actually, this is one of the more salient posts in this thread. This issue is not about folks choosing not to spend $30 a year for features they do not want to use. Nor, is it about folks who, for one reason or another, believe they can't afford to spend $30 a year for those services. Rather, it is about entitlement. The entitlement mentality is prevalent amongst a particular philosophic/political entity in our country. This group also promotes the myth that money, and the obtaining of wealth, is evil, in numerous wealth envy schemes geared to make "the masses" vote one way or another on particular proposals.

Mredria nailed it. :anitongue:

Edited by Clan Riffster
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  • let's consider how much it costs the owners of Groundspeak to run the site, in terms of salaries, bandwidth, servers, programmers, etc.
  • the Otter Box container and associated cache-site hardware used for PUC #13 cost me about $28.
  • the FTF and 2TF prizes for PUC #13 cost me over $270, and the FTF prize alone included $160 in cash.
  • let us consider the fact that each of my two chartered helicopter flights to emplace the cache cost me about $160 apiece (the actual list price was somewhat higher, but I was given a sizeable discount because I am a pilot, and the owner of the helicopter charter facility was also a geocacher.)
  • My subsequent maintenance visits also each cost me about $160 apiece for helicopter charter.
  • For me to be able to emplace the cache, the helicopter needed to hover well below the "dead mans curve" just feet above the top of the 80 foot tall pier, and just 90 feet above a cold raging river. In other words, the procedure was rather dangerous, and only about one out of 100 helicopter pilots will even consider tackling the job, due to the dangers involved. I have taken these sizeable risks several times in order to emplace the cache and to do maintenance visits.
  • the switchable electromagnet-on-a-cable device that I built in my lab shop in order to allow retrieval and replacement of the cache from the air cost (including the numerous D-cell alkaline batteries) over $130.

 

You know you could just add this all up for the grand total of $1068 and off the coords for sale at this price to those non-premium members. :anitongue: I'm betting they'd opt for the membership :blink:

 

I find the whole idea of wanting the cache made non-PO so that people can read the logs ludicrous. I want cable and satellite to be free to, but that's ludicrous as well. If I want free, I'll watch whatever is available on broadcast. If I want more, I'll pay.

Edited by fox-and-the-hound
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[i find the whole idea of wanting the cache made non-PO so that people can read the logs ludicrous. I want cable and satellite to be free to, but that's ludicrous as well. If I want free, I'll watch whatever is available on broadcast. If I want more, I'll pay.

Except that they didn't just ask him out of the blue to open it up. They wouldn't have known about the cache if he hadn't asked for the attention.

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[i find the whole idea of wanting the cache made non-PO so that people can read the logs ludicrous. I want cable and satellite to be free to, but that's ludicrous as well. If I want free, I'll watch whatever is available on broadcast. If I want more, I'll pay.

Except that they didn't just ask him out of the blue to open it up. They wouldn't have known about the cache if he hadn't asked for the attention.

 

I'm talking in general terms here, but I still think it's irrelevant. If he'd wanted to share it publicly, it wouldn't be a PMO. HBO puts commercials on broadcast TV asking people to tune in to their channel, but you still have to pay to tune in. :blink:

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Actually, this is one of the more salient posts in this thread. This issue is not about folks choosing not to spend $30 a year for features they do not want to use. Nor, is it about folks who, for one reason or another, believe they can't afford to spend $30 a year for those services. Rather, it is about entitlement. The entitlement mentality is prevalent amongst a particular philosophic/political entity in our country. This group also promotes the myth that money, and the obtaining of wealth, is evil, in numerous wealth envy schemes geared to make "the masses" vote one way or another on particular proposals.

Mredria nailed it. :blink:

 

Of course, any non-PMs must be communists.

 

FWIW, of the two of us, I'm (the PM) definitely the bigger commie, and that doesn't mean I think I'm entitled to anything at all. Life is hard and you have to work for what you have. I scrapped my way up and out of the ghetto to a comfortable existence, it was a lot harder for me to get here than for people born here. I'll never forget where I came from. I believe wholeheartedly in giving back to the community and supporting programs that will help others do the same, make a success of their lives and earn enough money to live better. This is turning into a discussion for OT though, I'm going to stop myself now.

 

Sigh, I just don't think that in this case it's about entitlement. If they had been browsing caches and upon seeing a cache that they couldn't see, emailed the CO asking him to open it that would have been. But as it was, the CO came looking for people interested in his cache, he asked for the attention, and they tried to give him that attention. Seeing that they couldn't, they asked nicely. I didn't think they were mean, or rude. Immediately comments started flowing in, indicating that they were jerks for not already being PMs. That's more than a little discouraging.

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[i find the whole idea of wanting the cache made non-PO so that people can read the logs ludicrous. I want cable and satellite to be free to, but that's ludicrous as well. If I want free, I'll watch whatever is available on broadcast. If I want more, I'll pay.

Except that they didn't just ask him out of the blue to open it up. They wouldn't have known about the cache if he hadn't asked for the attention.

 

I'm talking in general terms here, but I still think it's irrelevant. If he'd wanted to share it publicly, it wouldn't be a PMO. HBO puts commercials on broadcast TV asking people to tune in to their channel, but you still have to pay to tune in. :blink:

 

and sometimes I click on links advertising websites that you have to register to see. I usually close the window. I figure if they wanted me to see their link, they should have opened it up to me. Closing the window means I won't buy whatever they were advertising.

 

It's totally within Vinny's rights to say "no" don't get me wrong. But they were nice about asking, why can't the response be nice? Why does it have to turn into a discussion about entitlement and bashing of non-PMs?

Edited by ThirstyMick
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It's totally within Vinny's rights to say "no" don't get me wrong. But they were nice about asking, why can't the response be nice? Why does it have to turn into a discussion about entitlement and bashing of non-PMs?

 

I think it's Vinny's point that the action of asking wasn't nice and that it was, in fact, quite the opposite. If was his intention to share he wouldn't have listed it PMO. It obviously was not. By asking for exception, people are displaying entitlement and that is what the rant is about. I haven't seen "bashing" of non-PMs though. There's nothing wrong with not being a PM. The only thing wrong is being a non-PM and complaining about not having access to PMO cache listings. I pay to use the Turnpike because a private business bought, built and maintains the road. I don't complain that they won't let me through the gates without paying and I don't ask them to let me through for free because I was told it is a great road to drive on.

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It's totally within Vinny's rights to say "no" don't get me wrong. But they were nice about asking, why can't the response be nice? Why does it have to turn into a discussion about entitlement and bashing of non-PMs?

 

I think it's Vinny's point that the action of asking wasn't nice and that it was, in fact, quite the opposite. If was his intention to share he wouldn't have listed it PMO. It obviously was not. By asking for exception, people are displaying entitlement and that is what the rant is about. I haven't seen "bashing" of non-PMs though. There's nothing wrong with not being a PM. The only thing wrong is being a non-PM and complaining about not having access to PMO cache listings. I pay to use the Turnpike because a private business bought, built and maintains the road. I don't complain that they won't let me through the gates without paying and I don't ask them to let me through for free because I was told it is a great road to drive on.

Exactly! As a former graduate-level clinical psychologist/psychotherapist, I can tell you that I feel that there was NOTHING "nice" about those requests at all, and, rather, they were insanely impolite, insanely inappropriate, and downright hostile, and also passive-aggressive.

 

And yes, neither I nor anyone else was ever ranting or even complaining about non-paying regular members. Rather, we have been talking about the insane level of depravity and hostility exhibited by the small percentage of those regular members who ask that I convert all of my Psycho Caches from PMO status to regular status just so that they may see them. This was all well-covered in my original post.

 

And, in my responses, I have no need to be "nice". I am not a nice person. I am not here on earth to earn the approval of others, and rather, I walk my own path in life and love every minute of it. In fact, I would feel that I was not doing a good job of running my life UNLESS I earned strong disapproval and harsh criticism from certain (unsavory) quarters.

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...are they perhaps a different species than I?...

 

Amazingly no. However a lot of folks have never been taught respect and thus don't grasp the concept and when and where it applies. Thus having none themselves they only can serve themselves. I normally ask them the kind of question that doesn't have an answer in their worldview to help expand their horizons. As an utterly selfish person myself I can usually do that in a way that's even more annoying to them than they were bieng to me. However if they can actually answer the questions or think about what I said they catch a clue, gain some wisdom and prove to be good folks. As for the rest, hell I don't have time to worry about them. I don't have enough time in this world for the people I do like already. No reason to worry about the uncarring masses who treat me like a number.

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Exactly! As a former graduate-level clinical psychologist/psychotherapist, I can tell you that I feel that there was NOTHING "nice" about those requests at all, and, rather, they were insanely impolite, insanely inappropriate, and downright hostile, and also passive-aggressive.

 

And yes, neither I nor anyone else was ever ranting or even complaining about non-paying regular members. Rather, we have been talking about the insane level of depravity and hostility exhibited by the small percentage of those regular members who ask that I convert all of my Psycho Caches from PMO status to regular status just so that they may see them. This was all well-covered in my original post.

 

I just went back and looked at the posts. One of the posts seems to just be advising that you might get more interest (from others, not just himself) if you opened it up. Guess I don't see that as hostile, impolite or passive aggressive. Oh well, lesson learned. Never ask Vinny for anything.

 

I did, and do think some of the reactions came off as a bit hostile though. Including opening a separate thread to rant. Anyone reading this can be advised, that if you want something from me, there's no harm in asking! If the answer is no, I'll just say no.

 

I'm wondering, after the documentary airs. When publicity is gained and potential new members flock to the site, will they be dissuaded when they can't see the page of the really cool cache they just saw on TV?

 

And, in my responses, I have no need to be "nice". I am not a nice person. I am not here on earth to earn the approval of others, and rather, I walk my own path in life and love every minute of it. In fact, I would feel that I was not doing a good job of running my life UNLESS I earned strong disapproval and harsh criticism from certain (unsavory) quarters.

Fair enough, I suppose.

 

...and with that, I will conclude that my angst in this matter is exactly what you crave.

 

Sorry to get riled up because of your irritation and dismay. I guess I'm biased too, living with one of them (I'm still wondering if you pay $60 for your joint membership?) and knowing that the other one is a great guy who probably meant no harm or offense in asking. So it's great to know that you think they are unsavory quarters. That's just wonderful for you. I'll decide not to care anymore.

Edited by ThirstyMick
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<snip>

 

And, in my responses, I have no need to be "nice". I am not a nice person. I am not here on earth to earn the approval of others, and rather, I walk my own path in life and love every minute of it. In fact, I would feel that I was not doing a good job of running my life UNLESS I earned strong disapproval and harsh criticism from certain (unsavory) quarters.

 

*SHOCK AND ALARM*!!!!

 

I'm Sioneva, and I disapprove of this post. *doublechecks* Oh. I STRONGLY disapprove of this post.

 

*insert harsh criticism*

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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

 

Think of it like this... if you put your home # on the Do Not Call List then you have made it quite clear you don't wish to receive calls from solicitors. If said solicitors know not to call, but call you anyway (even politely), the fact that they called is impolite. When feel they have the right to call you despite your being on the list then that's self-entitlement, passive-agressive and rude. Putting your number on the DNC list or your cache on the PMO list is your right. Having people call or email you despite that fact is not cool. Pretty simple. :antenna:

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The CO is ultimately responsible for the cache and after reading the description feel Vinny is right in deciding to limit its exposure. Groundspeak owns the website and defines the rules for it. They at least appear to make the effort to apply the rules in a consistant manner. So we all know if you want access to everything, you need to become a premium member.

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<As a former graduate-level clinical psychologist/psychotherapist>

 

My wife says I need to see someone like you.

I quit that profession back around 1992, and nowadays, I am a consulting mad scientist (a lot of my consulting and R&D work is in the field of time-space portals and interdimensional portals) and a spiritual healer.

 

Besides, you are beyond help! :antenna::antenna::D

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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

 

Think of it like this... if you put your home # on the Do Not Call List then you have made it quite clear you don't wish to receive calls from solicitors. If said solicitors know not to call, but call you anyway (even politely), the fact that they called is impolite. When feel they have the right to call you despite your being on the list then that's self-entitlement, passive-agressive and rude. Putting your number on the DNC list or your cache on the PMO list is your right. Having people call or email you despite that fact is not cool. Pretty simple. :antenna:

 

Not really the same thing. One is an actual phone call that intrupts your day. The other is an email that you choose to open (or not) when you want to. You can also choose to reply or not. Also, where does it say that if you publish a Cache as a PM's only Cache that you are not allowed to send an email/pm to the the owner of said Cache.

Besides, how can you read into someone personality and say they are being rude. That would be baseless assumption.

It still seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

I completely agree with you, but I think that you have missed the fact that Vinny should not be taken seriously. He frequently creates threads taking wacky stances because he thinks it's funny. Certainly, he is enjoying himself, but the truth is that it is very unlikely that the email exchange ever happened. Mostly, it's best to simply give an eye roll and move on when you see one of his threads. I only popped in because I was somewhat surprised that the thread hadn't fallen off the page, yet.
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Of course, any non-PMs must be communists.

And should be beaten! Repeatedly! With rotting lemming corpses! :antenna:

(Note: If your geographic region makes finding deceased lemmings difficult, a reasonable and prudent substitute would be a pummelling with hamsters)

 

Thsi is starting to sound like that VeggieTales movie about Jonah. Do we get to go around slapping non-PMOs with fishes? :antenna:

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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

I completely agree with you, but I think that you have missed the fact that Vinny should not be taken seriously. He frequently creates threads taking wacky stances because he thinks it's funny. Certainly, he is enjoying himself, but the truth is that it is very unlikely that the email exchange ever happened. Mostly, it's best to simply give an eye roll and move on when you see one of his threads. I only popped in because I was somewhat surprised that the thread hadn't fallen off the page, yet.

I am deadly serious. As stated in my original post, the majority of the requests to make the cache non-PM were made NOT via email, but on this forum, in my original thread about PUC #13. Many posters to this thread have already visited the original thread and read the original requests.

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<Besides, you are beyond help! >

 

Thank you for that diagnosis....Where do I mail the check?

No check needed; that long-distance diagnosis was gratis.

 

Incidentally, I notice that your forum display box reads "Radium + + Member". Interesting! I happend to have a goodly amount of radium ore, uranium ore and thorium ore in my lab, because I use them to create a radium/uranium/thorium nutritional supplement for myself, which I ingest faithfully every day.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

 

Think of it like this... if you put your home # on the Do Not Call List then you have made it quite clear you don't wish to receive calls from solicitors. If said solicitors know not to call, but call you anyway (even politely), the fact that they called is impolite. When feel they have the right to call you despite your being on the list then that's self-entitlement, passive-agressive and rude. Putting your number on the DNC list or your cache on the PMO list is your right. Having people call or email you despite that fact is not cool. Pretty simple. :antenna:

 

Not really the same thing. One is an actual phone call that intrupts your day. The other is an email that you choose to open (or not) when you want to. You can also choose to reply or not. Also, where does it say that if you publish a Cache as a PM's only Cache that you are not allowed to send an email/pm to the the owner of said Cache.

Besides, how can you read into someone personality and say they are being rude. That would be baseless assumption.

It still seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :antenna:

 

edit4toospel

Edited by fox-and-the-hound
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I do not understand getting so bent out of shape when some people who are a non-PM's are just asking a simple question, if you could make it viewable for non-PM's? From what you quoted it does not appear they were rude nor is their even a hint of a sense of entitlement.

Just politely say that you want these caches for PM's only. Pretty simple.

I completely agree with you, but I think that you have missed the fact that Vinny should not be taken seriously. He frequently creates threads taking wacky stances because he thinks it's funny. Certainly, he is enjoying himself, but the truth is that it is very unlikely that the email exchange ever happened. Mostly, it's best to simply give an eye roll and move on when you see one of his threads. I only popped in because I was somewhat surprised that the thread hadn't fallen off the page, yet.

I am deadly serious. As stated in my original post, the majority of the requests to make the cache non-PM were made NOT via email, but on this forum, in my original thread about PUC #13. Many posters to this thread have already visited the original thread and read the original requests.

 

Then it is even easier not to respond to those you do not want to. Ignore their request. Again. Simple.

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I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :antenna:

 

edit4toospel

 

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

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I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :antenna:

 

edit4toospel

 

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

 

I'm pretty sure neither of them sent any emails or PMs. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they only asked in the thread in our local forum.

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Hmmm... I'll try to take these one at a time and explain more eloquently my point of view. I understand where you're coming from a little better now and hope I can provide you a better look my view as well...

 

There is no harm in asking to make it public.

 

I think there is. More specifically, I think asking a cacher to change a cache that meets all guideline requirements to change a cache to the way I like it is wrong on multiple levels. First, the cache was made that way through the hard work of the cache setter for his/her own reasons. Asking the cache setter to change a cache to suit my personal wants is insulting. Second, variation in caches is what makes them exciting to begin with. If every cache hunt ended with find a cache hidden the exact same way then you'd probably stop hunting them. For example, if you set up a cache that was hidden in a great spot high on a rock wall that you had to climb to and it took you months to find the perfect spot... how would you feel when people started emailing you with requests to put it down low so it was easy to grab? How would you feel if you started getting 20 emails a day asking that? Asking a cache setter to change ANY attribute of a cache that is within guidelines takes away from the enjoyment of the community because it begins to strangle the creativity of caches. It doesn't matter if the change is in the field or on the listing. Variation is paramount to the growth and creativity of cache placement.

 

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

The question does not have to serve to improve. The request should though. It's one thing to ask a question about a cache, it's quite another to ask someone to change that cache simply because you feel you're entitled to do so. Would you request that all puzzle caches provide the answer in the hint? Do you think anyone would go to the extreme lengths of creativity to make great puzzles if they had to give everyone an easy answer? Would you request that all multi-caches have 3 or fewer stages because you don't like to walk a long way? What would your request mean for all the amazing hiking caches and everyone who enjoys them as they are if cache setters aquiesced? These are just two examples, but imagine the millions of possible scenarios before responding to these two rather narrow examples specifically.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

 

This thread is servign the geocaching community well if we're hearing more than one school of thought. You and I alone are making a contribution to the community by sharing how we feel and think. If I can learn from you and/or you can learn from me, then the whole community has just benefited. Of course I thought we were debating and not arguing :antenna:

Edited by fox-and-the-hound
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"...I happend to have a goodly amount of radium ore, uranium ore and thorium ore in my lab*, because I use them to create a radium/uranium/thorium nutritional supplement for myself."

 

He does too! It unfortunately induces an almost constant state of diahrrhea, & as side effect, is why his tail glows in the dark. And lightning bugs flock to him.

 

(You'll note he din't respond in the "What flashlight..." thread.)

:antenna:

~*

 

*aka Psycho Urban Cache #69: "Vinny's Orehouse" - Coming Soon - Watch For It!!!!

Link to comment

 

I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :laughing:

 

edit4toospel

 

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

Ewwww... I am about to puke... a couple of your posts sent lately to this thread have provoked the same reaction in me...

 

I smell the stink of a sense of self-entitlement, and I am allergic to that stench.

 

Let me take you back to my original post in this thread, and ask you:

 

Would you contact your electrical utility company and ask them to start providing all your electric power for free?

 

Would you contact your propane/natural gas supply company and ask them to provide all your heating/cooking/hot water gas for free?

 

Would you contact your cable TV company and ask them to provide premium highest-level cable TV services to your home for free?

 

Would you contact your local gasoline station and ask them to provide you with free gasoline from now on?

 

Would you contact your ISP and ask them to provide you with high-speed DSL Internet access for free?

 

Would you contact your doctors and dentists and ask them to provide you with totally free services from now on?

 

Would you contact your local supermarket and ask them to provide you with free groceries from now on?

 

And, I have just noted... interesting... you are NOT a Premium Member yourself, and thus, your statements are all suspect from that point of view as well, as a casual obsrdver might suspect that your position is merely one that is self-serving.

 

Good luck with your baggage.

 

.

Link to comment
I think there is. More specifically, I think asking a cacher to change a cache that meets all guideline requirements to change a cache to the way I like it is wrong on multiple levels. First, the cache was made that way through the hard work of the cache setter for his/her own reasons. Asking the cache setter to change a cache to suit my personal wants is insulting. Second, variation in caches is what makes them exciting to begin with. If every cache hunt ended with find a cache hidden the exact same way then you'd probably stop hunting them. For example, if you set up a cache that was hidden in a great spot high on a rock wall that you had to climb to and it took you months to find the perfect spot... how would you feel when people started emailing you with requests to put it down low so it was easy to grab? How would you feel if you started getting 20 emails a day asking that? Asking a cache setter to change ANY attribute of a cache that is within guidelines takes away from the enjoyment of the community because it begins to strangle the creativity of caches. It doesn't matter if the change is in the field or on the listing. Variation is paramount to the growth and creativity of cache placement.

 

Changing the actual Cache itself is vastly different than asking to make it public. There was no hard work in deciding if it should be made available to all or just PM's. It is just a few clicks of the mouse (all though I do not know how many clicks it does take as I have not placed one yet), so I can not see how that is insulting. The Op did not state once that the actual essence of the cache was requested to be changed. If that was the case then I could agree that it was inappropriate and how you could consider it insulting, but that was not the case.

 

The question does not have to serve to improve. The request should though. It's one thing to ask a question about a cache, it's quite another to ask someone to change that cache simply because you feel you're entitled to do so

 

Ok. You say requests should serve to improve the cache, but at teh same time you are saying that if you received a request to change something physically about the cache would be rude and insulting. You can not have it both ways. Either you want suggestions or not.

 

This thread is servign the geocaching community well if we're hearing more than one school of thought. You and I alone are making a contribution to the community by sharing how we feel and think. If I can learn from you and/or you can learn from me, then the whole community has just benefited. Of course I thought we were debating and not arguing

 

I certainly do not consider this an arguement at all. Yes many people can benefit from discussions and debates, but to debate whether a question about making a cache available for everyone or not was rude and insulting and even calling the person(s) who posted the question as feeling that they are entitled to have it made available to them is so insignificant on the grand scale of things. Now, if the person(s) posted that the OP must or demanded that they make it avaialable, I can agree to the self-entitlement label, but from what the OP posted I did not get that sense.

Link to comment

I attempted to PM Vinny with my concerns over his caches that are only viewable by authorized Platinum members.

 

I received this message:

 

The following errors were found

There is no such member - please check the name entered and try again.

 

This personal message has not been sent

 

It is as I feared. Vinny does not exist, and in fact has never existed. He is a sock puppet of Signal the Frog, sent by an occult hand to cause chaos and consternation in cachers everywhere.

 

And I still can't view his Platinum caches! *SHOCK AND ALARM*

Link to comment

I attempted to PM Vinny with my concerns over his caches that are only viewable by authorized Platinum members.

 

I received this message:

 

The following errors were found

There is no such member - please check the name entered and try again.

 

This personal message has not been sent

 

It is as I feared. Vinny does not exist, and in fact has never existed. He is a sock puppet of Signal the Frog, sent by an occult hand to cause chaos and consternation in cachers everywhere.

 

And I still can't view his Platinum caches! *SHOCK AND ALARM*

You a are such a liar! The reality is, as you well know, that you cannot even see the names or waypoint IDs of any of my Platinum member caches, and that is deliberate: we do not want regular members and Premium members to even know that they exist, for obvious reasons.

Link to comment

Changing the actual Cache itself is vastly different than asking to make it public. There was no hard work in deciding if it should be made available to all or just PM's. It is just a few clicks of the mouse (all though I do not know how many clicks it does take as I have not placed one yet), so I can not see how that is insulting. The Op did not state once that the actual essence of the cache was requested to be changed. If that was the case then I could agree that it was inappropriate and how you could consider it insulting, but that was not the case.

 

Really? You don't think asking the cache owner to make a change, no matter how small purely for your own self-gratification is a little out of line? The "essence" of this cache is determined by the cache setter, not you or me. If the cache setter sets a cache that adheres to the guidelines why do you feel we have the right to ask them to change it? That is the "essence" of this thread.

 

Ok. You say requests should serve to improve the cache, but at teh same time you are saying that if you received a request to change something physically about the cache would be rude and insulting. You can not have it both ways. Either you want suggestions or not.

 

Okay, good point, let me refine...

 

I think a valid request for a change to a cache should serve to improve the cache for both the owner and community. If the cache does not adhere to guidelines, fails to mention dangers, the need for specialized equipment, needs maintenance, etc., then I think these are reasonable requests that serve the both the cache setter and the community. Things like these are a required part of setting/maintaining a cache and might be overlooked or unknown to the cache owner at some point during the life of an active cache. Asking a CO about these concerns can prevent future problems for other cachers and/or the archiving of an active cache. A request aimed to protect the cache I believe serves us all and is thoroughly covered by the guidelines of Groundspeak already for setting and maintaining caches.

 

Asking a CO to make a change to a cache that follows all the guidelines and is currently in good form just to suit your personal whims serves only you. I believe that would be rude and insulting. It doesn't matter how small the change.

Link to comment

 

I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :laughing:

 

edit4toospel

 

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

Ewwww... I am about to puke... a couple of your posts sent lately to this thread have provoked the same reaction in me...

 

I smell the stink of a sense of self-entitlement, and I am allergic to that stench.

 

Let me take you back to my original post in this thread, and ask you:

 

Would you contact your electrical utility company and ask them to start providing all your electric power for free?

 

Would you contact your propane/natural gas supply company and ask them to provide all your heating/cooking/hot water gas for free?

 

Would you contact your cable TV company and ask them to provide premium highest-level cable TV services to your home for free?

 

Would you contact your local gasoline station and ask them to provide you with free gasoline from now on?

 

Would you contact your ISP and ask them to provide you with high-speed DSL Internet access for free?

 

Would you contact your doctors and dentists and ask them to provide you with totally free services from now on?

 

Would you contact your local supermarket and ask them to provide you with free groceries from now on?

 

And, I have just noted... interesting... you are NOT a Premium Member yourself, and thus, your statements are all suspect from that point of view as well, as a casual obsrdver might suspect that your position is merely one that is self-serving.

 

Good luck with your baggage.

 

.

 

Your examples have no relevance to Geocaching since they do not provide an option of a lower or different service in return for no fee.

 

You come across as a very judgemental person based soley on ones status within the Goecaching community and that reeks of snobism (not sure if that is even a word...lol). I base this on your position that you refer to my statements as suspect since I am one of the many non-PM's.

And you even go as far as saying my position on the matter is self serving. Again, making a baseless judgement.

 

For the record. I am a fairly new Geocacher and will eventually become a PM, but I decided at this time it is not needed.

Edited by D-Roc
Link to comment
Really? You don't think asking the cache owner to make a change, no matter how small purely for your own self-gratification is a little out of line? The "essence" of this cache is determined by the cache setter, not you or me. If the cache setter sets a cache that adheres to the guidelines why do you feel we have the right to ask them to change it? That is the "essence" of this thread.

 

Asking a CO to make a change to a cache that follows all the guidelines and is currently in good form just to suit your personal whims serves only you. I believe that would be rude and insulting. It doesn't matter how small the change.

 

 

 

I would agree about the self gratification position/serving only the person asking, if that person was the only non-PM. Making it public does serve the majority of the community (I am assuming that the non=PM's out number the PM's so please correct me if I am wrong). I really do not think that it would be anyones intention to "insult" the owner by asking. Out of curiosity, how often does this type of question get asked by PM's when they hide their caches and do not make them public? I just realized this was never asked/clarified.

 

Then what really needs to be done is make it part of the "rules" or "terms" of this Geocaching site that it is not allowed to ask the owner of a PM only cache to make it public.

Link to comment

Wow, there's a lot of text in this thread.

 

I'm not sure anybody cares what I think, not being a regular poster in this forum, but I think that way too much time and effort has been expended in this thread. I think it's reasonable to be curious about the content of PMO cache listings, and it's probably reasonable for somebody who's not familiar with the raging controversy over premium members to ask if the PMO tag can be taken off of a cache that is under discussion. It's also reasonable for the response to that question to be "no."

 

In any case, one of the reasons I enjoy my premium status is I don't have to worry about stuff like this. :up

Link to comment

Changing the actual Cache itself is vastly different than asking to make it public. There was no hard work in deciding if it should be made available to all or just PM's. It is just a few clicks of the mouse (all though I do not know how many clicks it does take as I have not placed one yet), so I can not see how that is insulting. The Op did not state once that the actual essence of the cache was requested to be changed. If that was the case then I could agree that it was inappropriate and how you could consider it insulting, but that was not the case.

 

Really? You don't think asking the cache owner to make a change, no matter how small purely for your own self-gratification is a little out of line? The "essence" of this cache is determined by the cache setter, not you or me. If the cache setter sets a cache that adheres to the guidelines why do you feel we have the right to ask them to change it? That is the "essence" of this thread.

 

Ok. You say requests should serve to improve the cache, but at teh same time you are saying that if you received a request to change something physically about the cache would be rude and insulting. You can not have it both ways. Either you want suggestions or not.

 

Okay, good point, let me refine...

 

I think a valid request for a change to a cache should serve to improve the cache for both the owner and community. If the cache does not adhere to guidelines, fails to mention dangers, the need for specialized equipment, needs maintenance, etc., then I think these are reasonable requests that serve the both the cache setter and the community. Things like these are a required part of setting/maintaining a cache and might be overlooked or unknown to the cache owner at some point during the life of an active cache. Asking a CO about these concerns can prevent future problems for other cachers and/or the archiving of an active cache. A request aimed to protect the cache I believe serves us all and is thoroughly covered by the guidelines of Groundspeak already for setting and maintaining caches.

 

Asking a CO to make a change to a cache that follows all the guidelines and is currently in good form just to suit your personal whims serves only you. I believe that would be rude and insulting. It doesn't matter how small the change.

 

I still think it was just an innocent question, not intended to be selfish, rude or insulting.

 

Different people have different motives for making a cache PM-only, not everybody does it explicitly to exclude non-PMs. I know of an instance where a cache was made PM-only so that the CO could use the audit function and see who was interested in his (cool puzzle) cache. In talking with a non-member he asked if the non-member had solved the puzzle and the non-member responded that he couldn't see the page. The CO was kind enough to offer to change the status temporarily to enable the non-member to solve the puzzle and find the cache, explaining that he didn't know who amongst the locals was/wasn't a member but liked the audit function. He certainly didn't *have* to, but the offer was very nice.

 

I don't see how a person could know how Vinny would feel on the matter without asking.

 

And again, one of the askers wasn't even asking for himself, though he may have phrased it that way, but a member of his "family" does have a PM account and he can see the cache page if he wants.

Link to comment

Wow, there's a lot of text in this thread.

 

I'm not sure anybody cares what I think, not being a regular poster in this forum, but I think that way too much time and effort has been expended in this thread. I think it's reasonable to be curious about the content of PMO cache listings, and it's probably reasonable for somebody who's not familiar with the raging controversy over premium members to ask if the PMO tag can be taken off of a cache that is under discussion. It's also reasonable for the response to that question to be "no."

 

In any case, one of the reasons I enjoy my premium status is I don't have to worry about stuff like this. :up

 

I agree, too much energy in this thread, over something I personally thought was rather innocuous. Also I agree that in our area there isn't any raging controversy over PM listings. People are generally nice to each other :lol: It's also totally reasonable to respond "no."

 

However, I disagree with the statement that people might not care what you think :laughing:

Link to comment

 

I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :laughing:

 

edit4toospel

 

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

Ewwww... I am about to puke... a couple of your posts sent lately to this thread have provoked the same reaction in me...

 

I smell the stink of a sense of self-entitlement, and I am allergic to that stench.

 

Let me take you back to my original post in this thread, and ask you:

 

Would you contact your electrical utility company and ask them to start providing all your electric power for free?

 

Would you contact your propane/natural gas supply company and ask them to provide all your heating/cooking/hot water gas for free?

 

Would you contact your cable TV company and ask them to provide premium highest-level cable TV services to your home for free?

 

Would you contact your local gasoline station and ask them to provide you with free gasoline from now on?

 

Would you contact your ISP and ask them to provide you with high-speed DSL Internet access for free?

 

Would you contact your doctors and dentists and ask them to provide you with totally free services from now on?

 

Would you contact your local supermarket and ask them to provide you with free groceries from now on?

 

And, I have just noted... interesting... you are NOT a Premium Member yourself, and thus, your statements are all suspect from that point of view as well, as a casual obsrdver might suspect that your position is merely one that is self-serving.

 

Good luck with your baggage.

 

.

 

Your examples have no relevance to Geocaching since they do not provide an option of a lower or different service in return for no fee.

 

You come across as a very judgemental person based soley on ones status within the Goecaching community and that reeks of snobism (not sure if that is even a word...lol). I base this on your position that you refer to my statements as suspect since I am one of the many non-PM's.

And you even go as far as saying my position on the matter is self serving. Again, making a baseless judgement.

For the record. I am a fairly new Geocacher and will eventually become a PM, but I decided at this time it is not needed.

Relevant sections above have been rendered in bold font.

 

Bingo! I am not a nice person. I am an elitist. I am a snob. I am judgmental at times over the behavior of idiots who should know better than to behave like idiots. I am not here on earth to win any popularity contests. In fact, as I have said before, I would feel that I was failing at living my life well if I did not receive a certain amount of criticism and sniping from certain (despicable and loathsome) corners.

Link to comment
I'm sure it seems that way until you're the one receiving a mountain of emails and PMs.

 

Reading an email asking for exception to a rule that I've put in place would take time out of my day (just like that phone call). Responding to said email would take more time out of my day. I put the rule in place for a reason. Asking for exception based on your personal gratification is rude when it would take away my personal time. Like the phone call, it's an interruption that was unwarranted.

 

Personality has nothing to do with being rude. Your actions of conduct determine whether you're being rude. The assumption is not baseless when it is a reaction to a poor display of behavior. It's also not an assumption. There are no rules against parking your shopping cart cross-wise in the middle of the store aisle, but it's still rude.

 

I'm not at all against people emailing with questions about caches. I do email regularly myself and receive emails regularly myself. I respond to these and enjoy doing so because my caches (so far) are not PMO. I do think that this particular scenario is rather specific though and that asking someone to change their cache for my personal entertainment is rude. It doesn't serve to improve the cache. It would only serve my self-entitlement and encourage it in others. I don't condone that kind of behavior. :laughing:

 

edit4toospel

If you are getting a mountain of emails/pm's I am sure there is a block/ignore button if you are being bothered on a constant basis. You say it takes more time out of your day to respond. Well then don't respond. Nothing dicates you that you must reply to all emails/pm's.

 

When I mentioned personality, I was referring to a sense of entitlement. You can not determin this from someone asking a simple question if you could make a PM only cache available for non-PM's.

 

Isn't Geochacing for someones personal entertainment? I geocache, not for others entertainment, but my own. So why judge someone as being rude for thinking about a cache that they would enjoy? There is no harm in asking to make it public.

Why does a question have to serve to improve the cache? I did not realize there was this rule in place. Reacting like this only deters people from asking questions in the future in fear that the could be labeld as rude.

 

This whole thread is not serving the Goecaching community well. We are here to enjoy the sport/hobby/game. Arguing about something as petty as this can really turn people off in ever trying it.

Ewwww... I am about to puke... a couple of your posts sent lately to this thread have provoked the same reaction in me...

 

I smell the stink of a sense of self-entitlement, and I am allergic to that stench.

 

Let me take you back to my original post in this thread, and ask you:

 

Would you contact your electrical utility company and ask them to start providing all your electric power for free?

 

Would you contact your propane/natural gas supply company and ask them to provide all your heating/cooking/hot water gas for free?

 

Would you contact your cable TV company and ask them to provide premium highest-level cable TV services to your home for free?

 

Would you contact your local gasoline station and ask them to provide you with free gasoline from now on?

 

Would you contact your ISP and ask them to provide you with high-speed DSL Internet access for free?

 

Would you contact your doctors and dentists and ask them to provide you with totally free services from now on?

 

Would you contact your local supermarket and ask them to provide you with free groceries from now on?

 

And, I have just noted... interesting... you are NOT a Premium Member yourself, and thus, your statements are all suspect from that point of view as well, as a casual obsrdver might suspect that your position is merely one that is self-serving.

 

Good luck with your baggage.

Your examples have no relevance to Geocaching since they do not provide an option of a lower or different service in return for no fee.

 

You come across as a very judgemental person based soley on ones status within the Goecaching community and that reeks of snobism (not sure if that is even a word...lol). I base this on your position that you refer to my statements as suspect since I am one of the many non-PM's.

And you even go as far as saying my position on the matter is self serving. Again, making a baseless judgement.

For the record. I am a fairly new Geocacher and will eventually become a PM, but I decided at this time it is not needed.

Relevant sections above have been rendered in bold font.

 

Bingo! I am not a nice person. I am an elitist. I am a snob. I am judgmental at times over the behavior of idiots who should know better than to behave like idiots. I am not here on earth to win any popularity contests. In fact, as I have said before, I would feel that I was failing at living my life well if I did not receive a certain amount of criticism and sniping from certain (despicable and loathsome) corners.

You know, the first step towards changing is understanding your faults. On the other hand, people who know that they act like jerks with no desire to change do not impress me with their jerkitude.
Link to comment

Making it public does serve the majority of the community (I am assuming that the non=PM's out number the PM's so please correct me if I am wrong).

 

How exactly? Just curious as to how changing the cache listing from PMO would improve the cache itself. I'm going to take a wild stab and say that if the CO believed it would improve the cache he would have probably done so already.

 

I really do not think that it would be anyones intention to "insult" the owner by asking.

 

I don't think insult was necessarily intentional either. Then again, most people don't know their behaving insultingly or rudely unless someone tells them. Obviously, the OP is upset at this behavior and believes it is rude or we wouldn't be having this thread.

 

Out of curiosity, how often does this type of question get asked by PM's when they hide their caches and do not make them public? I just realized this was never asked/clarified.

 

Another excellent question and this has actually been asked many, many times in the past. A quick search should bring up quite a few angst-ridden threads about the beneifts and drawbacks of PMOCs. Personally, I haven't had the need to use it yet, but it was a tremendously useful tool in saving local caches a couple years back when some local muggles opened up a free account and began destroying caches for fun. Several caches were fixed/moved/replaced and made PMO. Within days, people began complaining and asking for them to be changed despite the fact that it had cost the owners good time and money to replace them. If those caches had been made non-PM it is quite likely the cache destroyers would have simply wrecked the new ones, too. Instead, the caches remain for the community to find and enjoy. You might have to contribute to the site to gain access, but you at least have that choice.

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I really do not think that it would be anyones intention to "insult" the owner by asking.
I don't think insult was necessarily intentional either. Then again, most people don't know their behaving insultingly or rudely unless someone tells them. Obviously, the OP is upset at this behavior and believes it is rude or we wouldn't be having this thread.
Sure we would. Vinny made his bones generating this kind of thread.
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I am curious Vinny. How many of family that in your home are Geocachers and do all of them have Premium Memberships?

I remain totally amazed and speechless that you and one or two other posters in this thread keep trying to introduce this red herring. Please remember that the issue is not that any of us have a problem with non-paying regular members. Rather, our issue is with a small percentage of non-paying regular members who exhbit craven depraved morals and ethics and ask or demand that PMO caches be converted to regular (i.e. non-PMO status.)

 

However, for the fun of it, I am gonna answer your question, because the answer is so gonna shame you so badly that you are gonna beg the CIA to place you in Gitmo and waterboard you and electro-torture you for six months nonstop in a filthy cold wet cell. Here goes:

 

The only humans in our family (I am ignoring here, for the moment, dogs, cats, chickens turkeys, ducks, geese, peacocks, peahens, guinea fowl and cestodes) are Sue and myself. We maintain, and have maintained for years, two full-time Premium member accounts, namely, our main Vinny & Sue Team account and Sue's ancillary Sue-Cat account. We also maintain two other Groundspeak accounts for the benefit of two of my girlfriends in other parts of the country who are co-placers (co-hiders) with me of some of my extreme Psycho caches but who are not active enuf in the geocaching world (in other words, they go geocaching only with me when I am visiting them) to bother to have their own accounts at this time, and we sometimes activate those largely-dormant accounts by converting them periodically to Premium member status for periods of from 3 to 6 months at a time, as needed by me and my friends in order to allow them to perform cache maintenance on those distant caches.

 

Have fun in your cell in Gitmo!

 

Bye now!

 

P.S. I also operate 414 or 415 sock puppet accounts, half of them Premium accounts, all of which are active on the forum, but that is not relevant to this current discussion.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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