+DarkZen Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Roddy's post here reminded me of a conversation I had with a semi-local cacher who was telling me about 'Liar's" caches he liked. He even put one out himself. I think I understand the concept but was hoping that you guys could link me to your favorite examples (I'm not in contact with the aforementioned cacher or I would just ask him). Thanks. Quote Link to comment
+Taoiseach Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I've found one, but I'd prefer not to give it away... Anyway, just to make sure you're completely clear on the matter, Liar's caches are deliberately misrated (Often 5/5 5/4.5 4.5/5 or 4.5/4.5, but occasionally others), and all of the logs are creatively written in order to make the next finders think that the lie is truthful. For example a cache might say that it's a 15 stage multi, whereas it's really a simple traditional. In this case, the finders might write about or even post pictures of their misadventures at each of the 15 stages The longer that you can avoid it being exposed the better (read - funnier) it is Edited March 20, 2009 by Taoiseach Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've PM'd you an example Quote Link to comment
+Tequila Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) This can be a very risky thing to do. There used to be a Liar's cache in southwestern Ontario. Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Now for the bad part: They emailed the owner to confirm that all stages were in place. They explained what they had done and what their plans were. The owner responded that all stages were fine. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. I am not a fan of liar caches. And they affect challenge series as well. Edited March 20, 2009 by Tequila Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) This can be a very risky thing to do. There used to be a Liar's cache in southwestern Ontario. Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Now for the bad part: They emailed the owner to confirm that all stages were in place. They explained what they had done and what their plans were. The owner responded that all stages were fine. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. I am not a fan of liar caches. And they affect challenge series as well. We had a similar incident happen here. A group of local cachers carpooled and drove about 350 miles, rented motel rooms, and went after a cache that had very high ratings and lots of fantastic experiences in the logs ranging from rapelling down a cliff to renting a helicoper and being lowered in. I had previously found one cache by the hider... a black & gray film cannister tucked into a knothole in a tree... and figured that they were probably being fooled. They were, and they were NOT happy about it. They spent a lot of time and money on a very uninspiring cache (a peanut butter jar, if memory serves) that they could just as well have found in their own backyards. Edited March 20, 2009 by knowschad Quote Link to comment
+jbhodj & Drake Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Interesting, I would like to know more as well Quote Link to comment
+DarkZen Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hmmm, OK. I did not realize they intentionally subversive and that linking to them would "spoil" them. I'll add that if you post them here, add spoiler alerts. Or alternately you could PM me. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment
+uxorious Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have done a couple of them, and as was mentioned before, I don't want to name them. It could give it away. However, on the ones I have done, reading the logs would give it away. One clue might be someone claiming to fly over the cache site with a helicopter, and rappelling down to the cache. Or any other rather extreme way of accessing the site. I'm not sure how I feel about them, the two I have done, I have throughly enjoyed,(of course I knew they were liars caches before I looked for them,) and the logs are quite fun to read. However, I can see how they might be a problem to others. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) This can be a very risky thing to do. There used to be a Liar's cache in southwestern Ontario. Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Now for the bad part: They emailed the owner to confirm that all stages were in place. They explained what they had done and what their plans were. The owner responded that all stages were fine. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. I am not a fan of liar caches. And they affect challenge series as well. We had a similar incident happen here. A group of local cachers carpooled and drove about 350 miles, rented motel rooms, and went after a cache that had very high ratings and lots of fantastic experiences in the logs ranging from rapelling down a cliff to renting a helicoper and being lowered in. I had previously found one cache by the hider... a black & gray film cannister tucked into a knothole in a tree... and figured that they were probably being fooled. They were, and they were NOT happy about it. They spent a lot of time and money on a very uninspiring cache (a peanut butter jar, if memory serves) that they could just as well have found in their own backyards. Aha. The two examples I was going to give were already given. They're both archived, no harm in posting links you know. I just don't have them handy. If I'm not mistaken, the out of towners even held a geocaching event the night before their attempt in KnowsChad's example. Yep, both were archived immediately after their respective incidents. OK then, here's one where you know it up front Doesn't seem to cause any angst. Edited March 20, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel Quote Link to comment
+Tequila Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? There was nothing funny about it. It caused a LOT of hard feelings and there was a very nasty exchange on one of the forums. And it cost some friendships amongst some local cachers. Some thought it was funny and obviously most didn't. It was an incredibly inconsiderate thing to do. Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Roddy's post here reminded me of a conversation I had with a semi-local cacher who was telling me about 'Liar's" caches he liked. He even put one out himself. I think I understand the concept but was hoping that you guys could link me to your favorite examples (I'm not in contact with the aforementioned cacher or I would just ask him). Thanks. Well, first, as other folks have likely already advised you, the whole thing about a tall tale cache is that the exact additional logging requirement (namely, a tall tale) is not known until the cacher reaches the cache and opens the container. So, we can hardly name tall tale caches in public. Next, as I have said in the past, some of the better tall tale caches are some of my favorite caches, and I have, at times, traveled great distances in order to tackle some of the more famous tall tall caches. Lastly, for purposes of full disclosure as required of posters under federal law, I should admit here and now that there are strong rumors circulating in the geo world on the east coast, and elsewhere, that ALL of my Psycho Urban Caches and one or two of my Psycho Backcountry caches are tall tale caches. . Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? There was nothing funny about it. It caused a LOT of hard feelings and there was a very nasty exchange on one of the forums. And it cost some friendships amongst some local cachers. Some thought it was funny and obviously most didn't. It was an incredibly inconsiderate thing to do. I find it hard to believe someone would go to that kind of time, energy and expense without talking to someone in more detail about what they were going to do. I can't imagine they wouldn't have been alerted, but then I'd expect the CO to warn them, too, if they new what was up! Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Liar's cache? Never heard of them. Quote Link to comment
+Tequila Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? There was nothing funny about it. It caused a LOT of hard feelings and there was a very nasty exchange on one of the forums. And it cost some friendships amongst some local cachers. Some thought it was funny and obviously most didn't. It was an incredibly inconsiderate thing to do. I find it hard to believe someone would go to that kind of time, energy and expense without talking to someone in more detail about what they were going to do. I can't imagine they wouldn't have been alerted, but then I'd expect the CO to warn them, too, if they new what was up! As I said, they contacted the cache owner, explained their plans and preparation. He assured them all was in order, as it was, given it was a micro at Stage 1. It was rated 5/5 and they wanted a 5/5 cache. Quote Link to comment
+ArcherDragoon Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 This can be a very risky thing to do. There used to be a Liar's cache in southwestern Ontario. Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Now for the bad part: They emailed the owner to confirm that all stages were in place. They explained what they had done and what their plans were. The owner responded that all stages were fine. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. I am not a fan of liar caches. And they affect challenge series as well. We had a similar incident happen here. A group of local cachers carpooled and drove about 350 miles, rented motel rooms, and went after a cache that had very high ratings and lots of fantastic experiences in the logs ranging from rapelling down a cliff to renting a helicoper and being lowered in. I had previously found one cache by the hider... a black & gray film cannister tucked into a knothole in a tree... and figured that they were probably being fooled. They were, and they were NOT happy about it. They spent a lot of time and money on a very uninspiring cache (a peanut butter jar, if memory serves) that they could just as well have found in their own backyards. Aha. The two examples I was going to give were already given. They're both archived, no harm in posting links you know. I just don't have them handy. If I'm not mistaken, the out of towners even held a geocaching event the night before their attempt in KnowsChad's example. Yep, both were archived immediately after their respective incidents. OK then, here's one where you know it up front Doesn't seem to cause any angst. I know about the trip Knowschad speaks of very well...I did my research on said cache (sorry, I don't have the link) and found it rather hard to believe that the folks going after it didn't know something was up... Many "adventures" stated having to take a full day... a couple said overnight...some talked about deep swamp...others rough terrain...a whole lot of stories with a whole lot of variation... To top things off...many of the folks that found this "all day cache" found several others in the area on the same day (many in the upper 20's)...previous day and day after...gotta figure something is up... Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? There was nothing funny about it. It caused a LOT of hard feelings and there was a very nasty exchange on one of the forums. And it cost some friendships amongst some local cachers. Some thought it was funny and obviously most didn't. It was an incredibly inconsiderate thing to do. I find it hard to believe someone would go to that kind of time, energy and expense without talking to someone in more detail about what they were going to do. I can't imagine they wouldn't have been alerted, but then I'd expect the CO to warn them, too, if they new what was up! As I said, they contacted the cache owner, explained their plans and preparation. He assured them all was in order, as it was, given it was a micro at Stage 1. It was rated 5/5 and they wanted a 5/5 cache. Well that begs the question how it got published as a 5/5 (or was it?). A liar cache (description wise) should be fine, but violating the posting guidelines should not be. Approval indicates that the approver agreed it to be a 5/5, too. Otherwise, why use a rating at all? Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 This can be a very risky thing to do. There used to be a Liar's cache in southwestern Ontario. Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Now for the bad part: They emailed the owner to confirm that all stages were in place. They explained what they had done and what their plans were. The owner responded that all stages were fine. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. I am not a fan of liar caches. And they affect challenge series as well. We had a similar incident happen here. A group of local cachers carpooled and drove about 350 miles, rented motel rooms, and went after a cache that had very high ratings and lots of fantastic experiences in the logs ranging from rapelling down a cliff to renting a helicoper and being lowered in. I had previously found one cache by the hider... a black & gray film cannister tucked into a knothole in a tree... and figured that they were probably being fooled. They were, and they were NOT happy about it. They spent a lot of time and money on a very uninspiring cache (a peanut butter jar, if memory serves) that they could just as well have found in their own backyards. Aha. The two examples I was going to give were already given. They're both archived, no harm in posting links you know. I just don't have them handy. If I'm not mistaken, the out of towners even held a geocaching event the night before their attempt in KnowsChad's example. Yep, both were archived immediately after their respective incidents. OK then, here's one where you know it up front Doesn't seem to cause any angst. I know about the trip Knowschad speaks of very well...I did my research on said cache (sorry, I don't have the link) and found it rather hard to believe that the folks going after it didn't know something was up... Many "adventures" stated having to take a full day... a couple said overnight...some talked about deep swamp...others rough terrain...a whole lot of stories with a whole lot of variation... To top things off...many of the folks that found this "all day cache" found several others in the area on the same day (many in the upper 20's)...previous day and day after...gotta figure something is up... Sure, if you actually had reason to suspect something might be out of whack!! While I might research the cache, I wouldn't think about checking out other cachers' finds that day, or the day before or whatever. I might email one of them or more, and maybe they'd let me know of the secret...but I'd surely hoe the CO would. Especially when told of the plan! Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The word 'rating' doesn't appear anywhere in the guidelines. The breakdown with Tequila's situation occurred when the CO perpetuated the lie once they were aware of the expense and planning involved with the seeking party. If I had ever heard of Liar's Caches, and if I should happen to own one, I think I might give it up were I in that same position. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment
+Tequila Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The word 'rating' doesn't appear anywhere in the guidelines. The breakdown with Tequila's situation occurred when the CO perpetuated the lie once they were aware of the expense and planning involved with the seeking party. If I had ever heard of Liar's Caches, and if I should happen to own one, I think I might give it up were I in that same position. But that's just me. It is also very easy to change the rating after the cache is published. And the reviewer is only responsible for verifying the location, not the difficulty/terrain. They don't actually visit/complete the cache. BTW, after the incident, the CO archived the cache. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Two guys in Michigan planned a weekend vacation around finding it. They had no idea it was a liar's cache. They were firefighters and had rescheduled a bunch of shifts etc. in order to get the weekend off. They rented a mobile home and gathered all the recommended equipment. Needless to say it caused a lot of angst. OMG, what would you give to have that moment caught on tape? There was nothing funny about it. It caused a LOT of hard feelings and there was a very nasty exchange on one of the forums. And it cost some friendships amongst some local cachers. Some thought it was funny and obviously most didn't. It was an incredibly inconsiderate thing to do. I find it hard to believe someone would go to that kind of time, energy and expense without talking to someone in more detail about what they were going to do. I can't imagine they wouldn't have been alerted, but then I'd expect the CO to warn them, too, if they new what was up! As I said, they contacted the cache owner, explained their plans and preparation. He assured them all was in order, as it was, given it was a micro at Stage 1. It was rated 5/5 and they wanted a 5/5 cache. Well that begs the question how it got published as a 5/5 (or was it?). A liar cache (description wise) should be fine, but violating the posting guidelines should not be. Approval indicates that the approver agreed it to be a 5/5, too. Otherwise, why use a rating at all? I doubt a liars cache like the two examples would be published today. The Canadian one was published in 2005, and the Wisconsin one (which became famous in these here forums) at least 2005, probably earlier. I do remember seeing the the Canadian one (It was somewhat close to an event I attended in 2006), and I immediately was able to tell it was a hoax. Not everyone, obviously. In both cases the seekers wigged out because the Cache Owners knew they were coming, and didn't say anything about it being a "joke". Edited March 20, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The word 'rating' doesn't appear anywhere in the guidelines. The breakdown with Tequila's situation occurred when the CO perpetuated the lie once they were aware of the expense and planning involved with the seeking party. If I had ever heard of Liar's Caches, and if I should happen to own one, I think I might give it up were I in that same position. But that's just me. The guidelines state "Before a cache is published on the website, a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and compliance with these guidelines." Ratings are somewhat subjective, but the submission sheets require you to sign off on your ratings and that seems like a pretty clear guideline. So like I said, the description being misleading is often subjective and even very colorful purely to add fun to a cache hunt, but coords, ratings or attributes purposely being altered seems like another thing alltogether. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ratings are somewhat subjective, but the submission sheets require you to sign off on your ratings and that seems like a pretty clear guideline Could you please point to the section of the guidelines that references ratings? I must have missed it. I've seen plenty of misrated caches and I'm sure you have as well. I don't see how the reviewers are supposed to be responsible for misrated caches, especially when there isn't any mention of them in the guidelines. Or, as I just typed, perhaps I missed it? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Aha. The two examples I was going to give were already given. They're both archived, no harm in posting links you know. I just don't have them handy. If I'm not mistaken, the out of towners even held a geocaching event the night before their attempt in KnowsChad's example. Yep, both were archived immediately after their respective incidents. OK then, here's one where you know it up front Doesn't seem to cause any angst. Found the one that I wrote about: The Gauntlet Good point about checking other finds for those that logged this one, ArcherDragoon! I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure this was a fun joke to those that lived nearby. Any practical joke has the potential to backfire. Some that went along on that trip from Mpls were our more veteran cachers and really should have known better. Edited March 20, 2009 by knowschad Quote Link to comment
+JacobBarlow Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Roddy's post here reminded me of a conversation I had with a semi-local cacher who was telling me about 'Liar's" caches he liked. He even put one out himself. I think I understand the concept but was hoping that you guys could link me to your favorite examples (I'm not in contact with the aforementioned cacher or I would just ask him). Thanks. Hopefully nobody mentioned these, I didn't read all the posts... but the two that come to mind for me are : http://coord.info/gc16nar and http://coord.info/gc1m451 Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Aha. The two examples I was going to give were already given. They're both archived, no harm in posting links you know. I just don't have them handy. If I'm not mistaken, the out of towners even held a geocaching event the night before their attempt in KnowsChad's example. Yep, both were archived immediately after their respective incidents. OK then, here's one where you know it up front Doesn't seem to cause any angst. Found the one that I wrote about: The Gauntlet Good point about checking other finds for those that logged this one, ArcherDragoon! I hadn't thought of that. I'm sure this was a fun joke to those that lived nearby. Any practical joke has the potential to backfire. Some that went along on that trip from Mpls were our more veteran cachers and really should have known better. Yup, I remember the forum thread about that cache alright. It looks like almost all of the ticked-off cachers logs have been removed though, either by themselves or the cache owner. Seems like there were many more back in the day. OK, it doesn't seem like Tequilla is going to link to the Canadian one, so neither will I. I will post part of the find log of one of the ticked-off cachers though: I said every dirty word I know and even made up some. Since when does a 5/5 Multi cache only have one stage to it? And not even a 5/5? It's a 1/1 if anything. Then we find that "stage 2" is for me to lie about what a wonderful time I had wasting 2 vacation days, 250.00, putting over 500 miles on my truck/trailer to find this hoax. I am not amused at all. I have a problem that geocaching.com would allow a listing of a multi and a 5/5 when it is neither. Plus, to top it all off you were contacted ahead of time just so we could make sure all the stages were in good order before making such a trip for just a cache and you said everything was great. I'm curious, is the OP thinking of doing a practical joke hoax type one, or an "up front" one, like I linked to earlier in post 10? Quote Link to comment
+DarkZen Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 I'm curious, is the OP thinking of doing a practical joke hoax type one, or an "up front" one, like I linked to earlier in post 10? First let me say that when I posted this thread, I didn't even understand exactly what a Liar's Cache was (hence my query). I had a vague memory of a conversation that I had with another cacher who had visited a couple of liars caches and enjoyed them. Later I had and idea for a cache that would build on what I assumed these were. So I asked here to get a better understanding. To answer your question directly, if I proceed with my idea, it will up-front. In fact, understanding that the description is deceptive would be crucial for the cache to work. Quote Link to comment
+Tequila Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Took me awhile to find the cache I was referring to. Here it is. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.