What's the difference between a Geocoin and Sigitem?

[+fox-and-the-hound]

RSG asked a great question in a thread that was recently closed. It's been discussed secondarily a couple times, but let's look at her question...

 

"so what is the difference between a non-trackable coin and a sig item? if one makes a bunch of metal round "coin-like" sig items, are those non-trackable geocoins? what if they are made of porcelain? or poly clay with a metal interior.

 

i am really curious!

 

rsg"

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first geocoins (or some of the first at least) weren't trackable at all. They were minted coins left as signature items. So what makes a coin a coin? The word "coin" comes from the Latin word "Cuneus" (which is type of wedge). Later it was an Anglo-French word "Coing" also mean wedge or corner. The reason was that the way metal was stamped in the past was with a wedge-shaped die that would strike heated metal into various shapes. Some of the oldest coins weren't at all what we'd consider "coin shaped". Take a look at these...

 

The word coin really refers to how something is produced more than the material it's produced of or the shape it takes upon being stamped (molded under pressure by a die (or wedge)).

 

So it opens up an interesting question. Is a coin or sigitem officially a "geocoin" if said item is "coined" or "minted"? Or does it simply have to be round and flattened? Do geogems, nuggets and assorted items count if they're coined/minted? What does this mean for one of my favorite coins... The Delft Blue ceramic coins which were technically not minted at all, but poured?

 

What say you folks? What makes a geocoin? What makes a geocoin different from a signature item? A pathtag is minted using the exact same process as a regular geocoin, does that not make it a geocoin as well if a somewhat smaller one? What do you guys think?

[+AtlantaGal]

Coins are typically metal. The others I consider tokens whether they be fimo, wooden or glass.

 

The other items I would also choose the term "made" since they typically are hand made and not a product of the overseas mints.

[+ThirstyMick]

Here? Trackability

 

I don't think of my sigitems as geocoins. I'm proud of them, but I made them myself for pennies out of fimo.

 

A lot of the sigitems that I have are more precious to me than a lot of the coins I have, because of the heart that went into designing them and the person that it came from. But I'm not sure I could see them as coins. Non-trackables are definitely coins in my eyes though. I guess it comes down to the metal? I don't really know.

[+Eartha]

One of the first "geocoins" was the Moun10Bike coin.

Geocoins are basically any coin shaped object (not necessarily roiund) with two faces, regardless of the material they were made from. Early coins in history were everything from metal, to stone, to clay, to shells.

 

Signature items can be anything from a business card, to a personalized pencil, to a handmade item, to a compass, a lanyard, a glass glob, marbles, a Rubber Ducky and more. The list of signature items is endless. "Signature" means that when someone finds a familiar item in a cache in their local area, they will know that that particular cacher has been by. A geocoin can be a signature item, but a signature item is not always a geocoin.

[+Hula Bum]

For me, I take it one step further, for the purpose of geocaching only, not including the outside world of coins and fell that geoicoins are metal and are basically round. Trackability plays not part as to whether it's a geocoin or not for me. Where do all the others fit in? I don't know, but that's the line I drew....

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Early coins in history were everything from metal, to stone, to clay, to shells.

 

Actually, early "coins" were made from metal, but early "currency" varied greatly as you pointed out.

 

A geocoin can be a signature item, but a signature item is not always a geocoin.

 

I like that!

Edited March 19, 2009 by fox-and-the-hound

[+tadpole379]

For me, being trackable or not has nothing to do with if I consider something to be a coin vs a sig item vs something else. There are plenty of coins that are not trackable on geocaching, but I consider them to be geocoins, and there are plenty of items that are trackable, but that I do not consider to be geocoins.

 

To really be a signature item, the item should be something that is typically left in a cache by a particular cacher to become part a caches swag. If someone mints a coin with the intention of only leaving that coin in caches and not trading or selling it, then that coin is a signature item. By that definition, most geocoins, I would not consider to be signature items. I think if something is trackable, it can't be a signature item, because once it has tracking information it then becomes a form of travel bug which has a whole different set of rules and etiquette attached, and cannot be considered a swag or trade item.

 

Non trackable but handmade and made of metal. Coins? I think so.

Habercacher

Geotiki

 

Non trackable on geocaching.com and minted:

Pathtags:

I consider my pathtags to be part of my geocoin collection, but I also consider them to be a type of signature item since unlike the majority of geocoins, many people do leave pathtags in caches they find as a signature token.

 

Clay or porcelain. Coins? I think so.

 

Delft Klomp

Four Spirit

 

Trackable but not coins:

GeoGems

Travel Bugs

 

Nontrackable Signature Items:

Wooden Nickels:

Poker Chips:

Fimo Clay Tokens:

 

Also, business cards, pins, personalized pencils, etc.

 

I think if someone got a tracking number for a wooden nickel or a poker chip, I wouldn't consider it to be a geocoin. To me, it would no longer be a sig item, but would fall into the same category as TBs, geogems, and those trackable signal the frog statues.

Edited March 19, 2009 by tadpole379

[RedShoesGirl]

thanks for starting this topic!

 

so, for the purposes of trading on the geocoin forum, there needs to be a clearer definition of the word "geocoin."

 

if i make a two-side metal object, a polyclay coin or precious metal clay, for example and i want to call it a non-trackable geocoin so i can trade with others here, that should be ok. right?

 

rsg

[+Kealia]

This isn't a new question, but one that comes up about every year or so. I'll try to find the old threads later as many good opinions were stated there and I'd be surprised if many of them have changed.

 

It may also provide some good input from folks who are no longer around much but were/are big collectors.

 

edit to add links:

What makes a geocoin a geocoin?

 

What makes a coin a geocoin?

 

What makes a geocoin a geocoin? (again)

 

What makes a coin Geocaching related?

 

What makes a Geocoin a Geocoin? (yet again)

Edited March 19, 2009 by Kealia

[+fairyhoney]

Hello all. I'm following the suggestion Eartha offered and making a post here for my handmade coins. I'm curious to see what everybody thinks of my work and trades might be considered. Below is the link to where I have posted the pics...I still can't get an image to work here.

 

At the top center of the page is our email address if you might have any questions, comments, inquiries.

 

*** Click on the pics to see a larger view, but note the larger views are a bit fuzzy. The actual pieces are very crisp, the inserted prints were ran off at 600 dpi.

SeaNare's Geo Creations

 

Thank you,

SeaNare

 

O.K. My BAD ! Ain't it great ?!? Let me take a bow . . . I brought up the fact that there is a "SIG ITEM" thread Only because I figured the thread it was in was going to get closed and sure enough - it did.

By the way, I REALLY like SeaNare's "coins"

[+Droo]

thanks for starting this topic!

 

so, for the purposes of trading on the geocoin forum, there needs to be a clearer definition of the word "geocoin."

 

if i make a two-side metal object, a polyclay coin or precious metal clay, for example and i want to call it a non-trackable geocoin so i can trade with others here, that should be ok. right?

 

rsg

I think the issue of Forum accessibility for non-trackables is whether it's for sale or for trade. Even the area of wooden nickels points to acceptance of bulk orders of signature swag but not of individual item sales but that area is still purty murky.

[+Eartha]

Hello all. I'm following the suggestion Eartha offered and making a post here for my handmade coins. I'm curious to see what everybody thinks of my work and trades might be considered. Below is the link to where I have posted the pics...I still can't get an image to work here.

 

At the top center of the page is our email address if you might have any questions, comments, inquiries.

 

*** Click on the pics to see a larger view, but note the larger views are a bit fuzzy. The actual pieces are very crisp, the inserted prints were ran off at 600 dpi.

SeaNare's Geo Creations

 

Thank you,

SeaNare

 

O.K. My BAD ! Ain't it great ?!? Let me take a bow . . . I brought up the fact that there is a "SIG ITEM" thread Only because I figured the thread it was in was going to get closed and sure enough - it did.

By the way, I REALLY like SeaNare's "coins"

 

FYI, my suggestion to SeaNare was to use the signature thread, and SeaNare asked me to close their thread, because they posted in the wrong place, by mistake. As I was sending them a PM, they emailed me and asked me to fix it, before my PM was sent.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

thanks for starting this topic!

 

so, for the purposes of trading on the geocoin forum, there needs to be a clearer definition of the word "geocoin."

 

if i make a two-side metal object, a polyclay coin or precious metal clay, for example and i want to call it a non-trackable geocoin so i can trade with others here, that should be ok. right?

 

rsg

 

From what I understand, yes. Even from the first few initial responses here you can see the diversity in what people consider a "geocoin". We all draw the line somewhere, but apparently it's a pretty big playground for drawing lines!

[+fairyhoney]

Early coins in history were everything from metal, to stone, to clay, to shells.

 

Actually, early "coins" were made from metal, but early "currency" varied greatly as you pointed out.

 

A geocoin can be a signature item, but a signature item is not always a geocoin.

 

I like that!

 

I smell a GREAT sig line here somewhere

[haysonics]

Good to see this topic revisited. I collect geocoins (both trackable and non-trackable) and use a definition that a geocoin is a geocoin if it is both called a geocoin by its creator and clearly related to geocaching (no matter what the design, shape or material may be). That definition might sound simple but I find it works fine in practice. My personal preference is for geocoins that are round and made of metal but I also have some that are not round and not made of metal. I don't collect pathtags, sig items, wooden nickels, tokens or geogems because they are not called geocoins by their creators. Creators inherently know what their creations are. I think it is harder to define what a coin is, for example, should the definition of a coin include it having been designed for or used as currency at some point? I think so but then other people disagree. IMO if its round and made of metal but it is not currency or called a geocoin by its creator then its a token or a sig item or whatever its creator wants to call it. Groundspeak has a rule forbidding non-trackable geocoins being sold or advertised-with-the intention-of-selling on its forum for obvious commercial reasons and I respect that. Confusion over what a geocoin actually is is bound to occur on a regular basis because of the trackable/non-trackable debate but that is clearly a separate issue. See it as a subcategory if you like. I think what is causing some anxiety is that some people are forced to call their non-trackable geocoins "sig items" so as to be able to trade them on this forum. One solution to this enigma would be for Groundspeak to have 3 pinned trading sections; trackable geocoins, non-trackable geocoins and sig items but for them to keep their policy of only allowing items to be sold or advertised-with-the-intention-of-selling that are trackable on Groundspeak dot com. This would also make the mods lives a lot easier. When they see mention of a geocoin in a post that doesn't have a Groundspeak tracking number, if its for anything apart from trade or gifting, then the post is deleted. I am sure the majority could agree to this as a space will have been created for all those non-trackable geocoins that are currently in a metaphorical closet named "sig items".

Edited March 21, 2009 by haysonics