Signature Items are not a Signature...

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I've seen a couple of posts in other threads letely where people have said that Signature Items/Sigitems are left by Cachers INSTEAD of signing the log. Is this a new way that people are playing the game, or are some new players just misinterpreting the phrase. It's been my experience that these kinds of things are either Trade or Swag that is left in ADDITION to signing the log, more like a Trademark than a Signature.

 

I would say that a Sigitem is just anything that a Cacher leaves as swag that is the same/similar most of the time, and either represents their team, or comes to be associated with their team through the habit. They don't even have to be marked. If you what always leave is a deck of cards/bag of marbles/what have you...then that would be your "Signature" trade item.

 

What are your thoughts...are many people just dropping a sigitem, and NOT signing the logbook? It had never occurred to me that people would be playing that way until I have seen it mentioned more than once today.

[+The Blorenges]

We have a signature item, a Blorenge orange slice with our name on it. We treat it as an 'extra' swag item and it gets dropped into most caches that we find.

 

But we always sign the log book: it doesn't take the place of that fundamental 'proof that we were there'.

 

Happy St Patrick's day

 

MrsB

[+billandlore]

But we always sign the log book: it doesn't take the place of that fundamental 'proof that we were there'.

 

MrsB

 

Totally agree with this. Other cachers use our buttons as trade items so they must just be swag.

 

Bill

[+Vater_Araignee]

The way I see it when I'm digging on swag is...

• there are signature items
  
• there are items with signatures on them
  

So a signature item is swag but I also consider an item with a signature on it swag if...

• it does not have a date on it
  
• there is more than one
  
• it is not located with the log book
  

To me a IWS and a date is acceptable as a signature and even if I wouldn't accept it as one I would consider it wrong to move it to a different cache because somebody else could get a mistaken impression.

I also feel that if they are left with the log book they have been left for the CO unless there are multiples in which case the last of the group should always be left for the CO.

[+usyoopers]

We have a wooden "usyoopers" nickel or a beaded "usyoopers" keychain that we leave as our signature item...we always sign the logbook though!

[GOF and Bacall]

Dropping a wooden nickle in the cache is not equal to signing the log.

[+Vater_Araignee]

Dropping a wooden nickle in the cache is not equal to signing the log.

What if it has the drop date on it?

[+Knight2000]

Signing to log book is what geocaching is about. Its like the first rule.

[+nittany dave]

Dropping a wooden nickle in the cache is not equal to signing the log.

What if it has the drop date on it?

I don't think that's a good idea and I would not do it. For me, the point of signing the log is to prove you were there and space permitting maybe say something more. Dropping off a dated wooden nickle could be removed by a future visitor as a signature item or trade item and the record of your visit is now gone. That said, I wouldn't really care if someone did that on one of my caches and probably wouldn't ever know either.

[+Vater_Araignee]

Dropping a wooden nickle in the cache is not equal to signing the log.

What if it has the drop date on it?

I don't think that's a good idea and I would not do it. For me, the point of signing the log is to prove you were there and space permitting maybe say something more. Dropping off a dated wooden nickle could be removed by a future visitor as a signature item or trade item and the record of your visit is now gone. That said, I wouldn't really care if someone did that on one of my caches and probably wouldn't ever know either.

Until just now, I considered it no different from shoving a scrap of paper into that micro with a wet log.

[+Vater_Araignee]

Signing to log book is what geocaching is about. Its like the first rule.

Now clear your throat and yell "Guide line, guide line! I meant to say guide line!" and duck.

[Ghengis Jon]

Imho, a signature item is a type of swag. It is a unique type of swag identifiable to the cacher who left it. In geo-caching, there are rules (don't bury caches) and there are guidelines (please sign the log). For me, the signature item is a treasured highlight of the game. They are found infrequently and give the game some personality. I used to have (now archived) a 'regular' sized cache. More than a dozen times the cache was visited, log signed, but no on-line entry. That kind of baffled me, but hey, to each their own. Some cachers (TreePlanter for instance), leaves several different signature items (cards, magnets, pins) in a single cache - and s/he still signs the log. Others (like me) leave one sig item and sign the log, regardless if I (or more accurately my kids) take an item.

 

For me, not signing the log is like running a race and then intentionally not crossing the finish line 6 inches away. Leaving a sig item in place of a signature sounds like the cacher wants his visit recorded on-line by someone else ("...left nothing took Joe Schmoe's widget signed log..."). I don't know how effective that is because many, many times, cachers do NOT state in the log they took something.

 

Many times I stocked my cache with several signature items. Come back a month later, all the items are gone, many entries in the log, and no one states on-line or in the log that anything was removed. I leave a signature item that attempts to combine my 2 favorite hobbies - geocaching and coin collecting. I leave an ancient coin (1600-2000 years old). I put it in a coin flip, with full attribution of nation, ruler, date struck, minting city, etc. Finally, the holder bears the statement THIS GENUINE ANCIENT COIN IS THE SIGNATURE ITEM OF GHENGIS JON - GEOCACHING.COM . It is something unique to me (as far as geocaching sig items go) and it is to thrill kids of all ages (5-100). But I still always always always sign the log. My no-strings-attached signature item is no substitue for a signed log.

 

Just my two denarii.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Ghengis Jon

[+sbell111]

Imagine that you arrive at the cache to find the logbook soaked or no pen in the cache and your pen dies. In this type of scenario, I have no problem with a person tossing in his/her sig item and then explaining the situation in the online log. I would be shocked if any cache owner had a problem with this.

[+wesleykey]

My sig item has "This cache was found by wesleykey" on it, but I still always sign the log (or cut it with a knife if I forgot a pen). Alternately, a soggy log means I will take a pic to prove I found the cache.

[+flask]

Dropping a wooden nickle in the cache is not equal to signing the log.

What if it has the drop date on it?

 

it's still swag.

 

when i drop my signature items, i sign and date them.

 

recently i was at a cache and found my signature there already. if i'd only known it was going to be considered to be my proof of visit, it would have saved me a trip.

[+StarBrand]

I drop in my sig golf pencil but its only worth about 3 cents - so I don't even consider it swag - at least where they can fit. However, I always sign or otherwise mark the log.

[+Too Tall John]

recently i was at a cache and found my signature there already. if i'd only known it was going to be considered to be my proof of visit, it would have saved me a trip.

Hey, on that note, I'd like to up my numbers in VT some more. If I send you some wooden nickels, can you drop 'em in some caches I'd like to do? A couple of DNFs I'd like to clear up come to mind...

[Jake - Team A.I.]

If someone happens to drop a signature item into my cache and neglect to sign the log, I'm not going to delete their log. Of course that's my choice on any cache that I own. The fact that I placed a cache that one, was big enough for then to even consider leaving a signature item. And two, they felt my cache was worthy of them leaving their signature item.

 

I would be disappointed if their sig item was a simple business card, but then again, it does prove they were there, since it's less likely that someone else as taken that from one cache and dropped it in another coupled with the original sig item owner claiming a find on the cache.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I drop in my sig golf pencil but its only worth about 3 cents - so I don't even consider it swag - at least where they can fit. However, I always sign or otherwise mark the log.

I know that many Sigitems are very inexpensive, but in my mind thay all have about equal value. A Sigitem that costs a Dollar to make has the same value as your 3 cent pencil(in my own mind) since thay would both hold an equal position in my collection.

[+steve p]

I leave an ancient coin (1600-2000 years old). I put it in a coin flip, with full attribution of nation, ruler, date struck, minting city, etc. Finally, the holder bears the statement THIS GENUINE ANCIENT COIN IS THE SIGNATURE ITEM OF GHENGIS JON - GEOCACHING.COM . It is something unique to me (as far as geocaching sig items go) and it is to thrill kids of all ages (5-100). But I still always always always sign the log. My no-strings-attached signature item is no substitue for a signed log.

 

Just my two denarii.

You are actually leaving coins that are 1600-2000 years old in caches??? How valuable are these coins? Sounds pretty cool, but expensive.

[+BlueDeuce]

I like to collect sig items and no I am not going to check the log book to see if the signator signed it.

 

I don't consider them swag unless the item can actually be swag. A business card is not swag whereas a pen, yo-yo, or bottle opener is.

[+uxorious]

So a signature item is swag but I also consider an item with a signature on it swag if...

it does not have a date on it

there is more than one

it is not located with the log book

 

A signature item is a signature item, even if it has a date on it, and there is only one.

 

As for being located with the log book, I often see the signature item put in the same zip lock the log book is in. Helps keep them dry and in good shape, but they still don't substitute for signing the log. And are still just a signature item.

 

If I find a cache that is too wet to sign the log on, I will write on a separate piece of paper and add that to the log book. However, if I leave a signature card in that cache it would be with the extra paper, not instead of it. ( A cache with a wet log most likely would not be a good place to leave a signature item anyway. )

[+amianda]

I see many people saying they collect sig items. How do you manage your collections? or is this a basis for a new thread?

[+BlueDeuce]

I see many people saying they collect sig items. How do you manage your collections? or is this a basis for a new thread?

 

I would suggest opening a new thread. Thanks.

[+Chrysalides]

It has never occurred to me until the other thread that some people may regard signature item as replacement for signing the log book. Signature item = unique swag, that's all. Nothing more. Main difference : it may get traded. The logbook doesn't (hopefully).

 

Flask : next time make your signature item a travel bug - then you'll know which cache you don't have to bother visiting

[+Sagefox]

Imagine that you arrive at the cache to find the logbook soaked or no pen in the cache and your pen dies. In this type of scenario, I have no problem with a person tossing in his/her sig item and then explaining the situation in the online log. I would be shocked if any cache owner had a problem with this.

 

This makes perfect sense. The OP's point of view makes perfect sense too but there are too many variables to say one thing or another is the correct answer all the time. (Not that OP is saying that.)

 

As to why sig. cards are not a substitute for a signature: Do I have any idea of how many trashed out, moldy, yucked up signature cards I have moved from cache to trash? Nope but it must be a biiiig number. And even a month in the winter can turn them into something most people wouldn't want to touch.

[Ghengis Jon]

You are actually leaving coins that are 1600-2000 years old in caches??? How valuable are these coins? Sounds pretty cool, but expensive.

 

Nah, not too bad. Cheap actually, as I used to buy them in bulk from Macedonean and Croatian soldiers who found them while sweeping the local areas for landmines after the Balkan War. Plus I put several hours each into cleaning them. Kind of a diversion from the standard buying cleaned coins from shops/collectors. I used to make good money at it until the advent of fleabay and cruddy coins flooded the market from eastern Europe.

 

But I've never had anyone complain to me about leaving a Diocletian follis instead of broken McCrap. Leaving a fellow cacher with a sense of awe and the drive to cache even more is my reward.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Ghengis Jon

[+007BigD]

Imagine that you arrive at the cache to find the logbook soaked or no pen in the cache and your pen dies. In this type of scenario, I have no problem with a person tossing in his/her sig item and then explaining the situation in the online log. I would be shocked if any cache owner had a problem with this.

 

This makes perfect sense. The OP's point of view makes perfect sense too but there are too many variables to say one thing or another is the correct answer all the time. (Not that OP is saying that.)

 

As to why sig. cards are not a substitute for a signature: Do I have any idea of how many trashed out, moldy, yucked up signature cards I have moved from cache to trash? Nope but it must be a biiiig number. And even a month in the winter can turn them into something most people wouldn't want to touch.

Copy that! I actually collect the old tattered siggys I even swapped out a Brand New NCFlyers pencil that I grabbed (from my collection at home) to replace a "weather cured" vintage pencil that was all cracked to heck and faded! Grabbed a tattered and soaked RoadCow card that has WAAAY more character than any new one! They gots history!!!

 

Kay, sorry bout that- I never heard of this practice before, but id say as many do... Play the game your own way. To each their own! Not that I agree with not signing the log, but HEY, if thats their gig- So Be It! We all play the game differently! I have signed the snottiest of logs, but wouldnt blink twice at just tossin a sig penny in one of them snotty log caches. I say "sign the log" is what caching is all about... I would not police others on how they wanna play their game, so as long as they are not logging caches they have never found, let em leave a sig. Really, id say its a mandatory practice to sign the log... But I dont make the rules and technically the only rules set in place for geocaching are set by Groundspeak all else are just guidelines

 

Sign the log, Take something, Leave something- Or Not! I do believe that moving TBs should require a log though Just because I have relied on logs alone for tracking down travelers, but thats just me.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Copy that! I actually collect the old tattered siggys I even swapped out a Brand New NCFlyers pencil that I grabbed (from my collection at home) to replace a "weather cured" vintage pencil that was all cracked to heck and faded! Grabbed a tattered and soaked RoadCow card that has WAAAY more character than any new one! They gots history!!!

 

HaHa, I too grab the beat up, weathered, and damaged SigCards. One that I have has the pictures and text completely washed away, and only by the placement of the remaining color spots can I tell who's card it is(when placed next to a good one). The date they signed in Ink Pen is still perfect though. One man's trash is another man's treasure!!

[+steve p]

You are actually leaving coins that are 1600-2000 years old in caches??? How valuable are these coins? Sounds pretty cool, but expensive.

Nah, not too bad. Cheap actually, as I used to buy them in bulk from Macedonean and Croatian soldiers who found them while sweeping the local areas for landmines after the Balkan War. Plus I put several hours each into cleaning them. Kind of a diversion from the standard buying cleaned coins from shops/collectors. I used to make good money at it until the advent of fleabay and cruddy coins flooded the market from eastern Europe.

 

But I've never had anyone complain to me about leaving a Diocletian follis instead of broken McCrap. Leaving a fellow cacher with a sense of awe and the drive to cache even more is my reward.

That is very cool.

Thanks for posting the details on your coins.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I have 2 signature items. I have buisiness cards and postcards. I drop one or the other in about half of the caches that I find. The only circumstance that I would use the card as my proof of being there is if the cache log is wet and unsignable or totally full.

I only remember doing this twice. I write the name of the cache, the date and sign the same way as I would on a regular cache log page.

I prefer seeing cache logs written in the cachers own hand rather than a sticker stuck to the cache page.

I do not consider my cards to be SWAG to move from cache to cache. If you find my card in a cache you may take it with you if you want it to contact me. Otherwise, copy my number etc. if you want to make contact.

[+flask]

 

I do not consider my cards to be SWAG to move from cache to cache.

 

tough luck.

 

you might not consider ice cream to be dessert, either, but it doesn't stop me from eating it then.

[+Renegade Knight]

Signing to log book is what geocaching is about. ...

 

Finding something is what caching is all about.

Virtuals, Webcams, Locationless, Waymarks, Benchmarks are all enjoyed by many and are variations of caching with no logs. They won't be the last logless variation.

 

I could truly care less about the logbook. In my group we play hot potato with the log to see who gets stuck signing it for everone.

 

Way back micro's weren't even required to have a log because they were too small. They are still too small for a good log book, but the rule was changed along the way to require that a cache have a log so now we have to deal with dinky pencils and dinky logs that don't even have room for initials. At least the "must have a log rule" keeps caches from being hidden near an angel dancing on a grain of rice. I did hear though that IBM had created a "pen" that could sign a log in a cache like that.

[+BCandMsKitty]

You are actually leaving coins that are 1600-2000 years old in caches??? How valuable are these coins? Sounds pretty cool, but expensive.

 

Nah, not too bad. Cheap actually, as I used to buy them in bulk from Macedonean and Croatian soldiers who found them while sweeping the local areas for landmines after the Balkan War. Plus I put several hours each into cleaning them. Kind of a diversion from the standard buying cleaned coins from shops/collectors. I used to make good money at it until the advent of fleabay and cruddy coins flooded the market from eastern Europe.

 

But I've never had anyone complain to me about leaving a Diocletian follis instead of broken McCrap. Leaving a fellow cacher with a sense of awe and the drive to cache even more is my reward.

 

Actually, I'm waiting for my shipment of coin flips so we can start dropping our latest sig item. Similar to your idea, but we will be using the large Victorian era pennies.

More OT, we would never consider them as an alternative to signing the log.

[+Team Shiney]

Reading about this in resent treads surprised me also. This does not seem to be the practice in my aria. I grab any signature swag that I do not have a copy of. About half of them of late have been cards. Some laminated, colored, and creative. Others not so much. Since we get a lot of catchers from out of state those are the best to find. Quite often they are in the ziplock with the log book. Not a bad idea considering how paper soaks up water so well. I have also found the cards wet, dirty, and down in the bottom under the McToys. Those go in my CITO bag.

 

I enjoy looking at logs to see who has recently found the cache. Some sign by using a sticker or a stamp. No problem with that. Often easier to read then hand writing. Not a problem. Not once have I seen a signature item in a cache that did not have a corresponding signature in the log book. Are people confusing "Signature Item" with Signature in the log. Maybe, but I have not seen it.

 

There are several treads were cachers have proudly diplayed their Signature swag. (I am suprised no one has Markwelled it.) Not once in those treads has anyone mentioned that they use it instead of signing the log.

[+kraushad]

I spent hours creating design for 2 1/4" buttons and made up a bunch of them - very tedious, but I already had the materials. I tried to make them humorous.

 

I always drop one of these when it will fit in the cache container, but sign the log as well. I will not trade one of my buttons as swag, but usually treat it as an extra dropped item in case someone who collects that kind of stuff might think it was cool to collect.

 

Here are the ones I generated - hope this works...

 

[+niraD]

Not once have I seen a signature item in a cache that did not have a corresponding signature in the log book.

I've found a few caches that already contained my sig tokens when I found them. Someone had taken one of my sig tokens from some other cache, and had left it in a cache that I hadn't found (yet). So it does happen, especially if the sig item is trackable.

[AZcachemeister]

Unless the log is a soggy mess, a sig item dropped in the cache is not the same as a signature in the log.

In some cases, a sig item dropped in the cache is the only option to indicate a visit.

In no case should this become standard practice.

[+Chrysalides]

Unless the log is a soggy mess, a sig item dropped in the cache is not the same as a signature in the log.

In some cases, a sig item dropped in the cache is the only option to indicate a visit.

If the log is a soggy mess, and there's enough space for a sig item, I'll drop in a new log sheet in a plastic baggie instead. This is assuming your sig item is not a small bead, grain of rice, or some such.

 

In fact, I think I'll go make a few "cache log repair kits", a medium sized baggie with 10 log strips and 10 plastic baggies, and a short note explaining what is it for and instructions like "Please do not remove the old log without permission from the owner".

[+flask]

Unless the log is a soggy mess, a sig item dropped in the cache is not the same as a signature in the log.

In some cases, a sig item dropped in the cache is the only option to indicate a visit.

In no case should this become standard practice.

 

if the log is a soggy mess, i sign the container.

[+joespaz]

Unless the log is a soggy mess, a sig item dropped in the cache is not the same as a signature in the log.

In some cases, a sig item dropped in the cache is the only option to indicate a visit.

If the log is a soggy mess, and there's enough space for a sig item, I'll drop in a new log sheet in a plastic baggie instead. This is assuming your sig item is not a small bead, grain of rice, or some such.

 

In fact, I think I'll go make a few "cache log repair kits", a medium sized baggie with 10 log strips and 10 plastic baggies, and a short note explaining what is it for and instructions like "Please do not remove the old log without permission from the owner".

 

I used to use CITO kits as one of my sig items. I love the idea of a cache repair kit!

[+narcissa]

I have known some cachers who drop business cards into caches instead of logging, but I don't know anyone who considers their swag trade to be equivalent to signing a log. In any case, does this matter?

[+bittsen]

I have known some cachers who drop business cards into caches instead of logging, but I don't know anyone who considers their swag trade to be equivalent to signing a log. In any case, does this matter?

 

Yes it matters.

 

It's my understanding that signature items are a gift. You do not even have to trade for them.

They are not signatures. They are gifts that identify the person who placed it.

 

If a cache owner audits their logs, they need to find a real signature, not just a signature item. A signature item, hopefully, would leave the cache sometime. The logsheet shouldn't.

[+narcissa]

I have known some cachers who drop business cards into caches instead of logging, but I don't know anyone who considers their swag trade to be equivalent to signing a log. In any case, does this matter?

 

Yes it matters.

 

It's my understanding that signature items are a gift. You do not even have to trade for them.

They are not signatures. They are gifts that identify the person who placed it.

 

If a cache owner audits their logs, they need to find a real signature, not just a signature item. A signature item, hopefully, would leave the cache sometime. The logsheet shouldn't.

 

So, it's really something that cachers who are doing this should worry about if they don't want their logs deleted by cache owners who actually audit their logs. If another cacher doesn't sign the logbook and just drops a sig item, they're kinda dumb, but it doesn't affect me in any way.

[+bittsen]

I have known some cachers who drop business cards into caches instead of logging, but I don't know anyone who considers their swag trade to be equivalent to signing a log. In any case, does this matter?

 

Yes it matters.

 

It's my understanding that signature items are a gift. You do not even have to trade for them.

They are not signatures. They are gifts that identify the person who placed it.

 

If a cache owner audits their logs, they need to find a real signature, not just a signature item. A signature item, hopefully, would leave the cache sometime. The logsheet shouldn't.

 

So, it's really something that cachers who are doing this should worry about if they don't want their logs deleted by cache owners who actually audit their logs. If another cacher doesn't sign the logbook and just drops a sig item, they're kinda dumb, but it doesn't affect me in any way.

 

BINGO!

 

And if you find a signature item you like, you can take it. But be nice and only collect one from any cacher.

[+narcissa]

I have known some cachers who drop business cards into caches instead of logging, but I don't know anyone who considers their swag trade to be equivalent to signing a log. In any case, does this matter?

 

Yes it matters.

 

It's my understanding that signature items are a gift. You do not even have to trade for them.

They are not signatures. They are gifts that identify the person who placed it.

 

If a cache owner audits their logs, they need to find a real signature, not just a signature item. A signature item, hopefully, would leave the cache sometime. The logsheet shouldn't.

 

So, it's really something that cachers who are doing this should worry about if they don't want their logs deleted by cache owners who actually audit their logs. If another cacher doesn't sign the logbook and just drops a sig item, they're kinda dumb, but it doesn't affect me in any way.

 

BINGO!

 

And if you find a signature item you like, you can take it. But be nice and only collect one from any cacher.

 

Yes. So, why does WRITE SHOP ROBERT feel that this issue should be generating some sort of outrage?

[+bittsen]

BINGO!

 

And if you find a signature item you like, you can take it. But be nice and only collect one from any cacher.

 

Yes. So, why does WRITE SHOP ROBERT feel that this issue should be generating some sort of outrage?

 

My sources say that Write Shop Robert is slightly mentally unbalanced.

 

 

[+narcissa]

 

My sources say that Write Shop Robert is slightly mentally unbalanced.

 

 

 

I suspect that your sources are on to something.

 

I'm going to go start an outrage post about how SOME people write their logs in water-soluble ink.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

My sources say that Write Shop Robert is slightly mentally unbalanced.

 

 

Only slightly? I think your sources might have some stale Data.

[+bittsen]

 

My sources say that Write Shop Robert is slightly mentally unbalanced.

 

 

 

I suspect that your sources are on to something.

 

I'm going to go start an outrage post about how SOME people write their logs in water-soluble ink.

 

You should. I think water soluble ink is the bane of geocaching, right next to NIH caches and PICO caches.