Log Deletions

March 15, 2009

A geocaching friend of mine from out of town came to visit me a couple of days ago. We decided to do some nearby caches that he had selected in advance. Needless to say, we both found all of them, went to our homes, filed our logs later that night and thought nothing of it until today.

Today, I get a Log Deletion notice for one of those caches. Furthermore and later in the evening, I received two more Log Deletion notices for caches found several months ago.

All three of these cache have one thing in common and they are owned by the same Premium Member. When I logged them, I used the Boulter's Express Logger website. Is that some sort of a no-no or what?

The real question is: Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member? And where in the rules or guidelines is that supported?

Should I lower myself to his level of foolishness and retaliate by deleting his finds of my caches?

And before you suggesting I become a Premium Member, think again. I Do Not Need Or Want It!

/\/(°w°)\/\

March 15, 2009

Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member?

Is that exactly what the deletion notice stated or is it what you are assuming ? I think before anyone answers this they would like to know what the deletion notice said, otherwise it is pointless trying to figure it out.

March 15, 2009

Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member?

Is that exactly what the deletion notice stated or is it what you are assuming ? I think before anyone answers this they would like to know what the deletion notice said, otherwise it is pointless trying to figure it out.

My log entry on this particular cache said exactly the following:

"Found with (cacher's name deleted). SL/TFTC"

As for the Deletion Notice, no cache owner comments were made. He simply deleted it without formality.

But since you requested the exact wording of the notice, the body, without the address header of the message, is as follows:

"Your log entry for the listing {cache name deleted} (Traditional Cache) was deleted by {owners name deleted} at 3/14/2009 10:37:53 PM"

Just because you pay an extra 30 bucks a years is not a valid excuse to warrant the deletion of a valid log entry, just because you are a Premium Member.

If the log entry were insulting or degrading to the cache or it's owner, that would be reasonable grounds for deletion. However, that is not the case with all 3 Deletion Notices that I have now received from this one particular cache owner.

BTW and in the interest of others who don't care for them, keep your personal rants, rave and insults out of your replies, for they only go to show the quality of your character.

March 15, 2009

Have you asked the cache owner why he/she deleted your logs?

March 15, 2009

Edited cos it is just not worth it for a troll

Edited March 15, 2009 by tttedzeins

March 15, 2009

Edited cos it is just not worth it for a troll

My sentiments exactly.

8.6k · March 15, 2009

Hi

A geocaching friend of mine from out of town came to visit me a couple of days ago. We decided to do some nearby caches that he had selected in advance. Needless to say, we both found all of them, went to our homes, filed our logs later that night and thought nothing of it until today.

I assume you signed the logbooks for the caches?

Today, I get a Log Deletion notice for one of those caches. Furthermore and later in the evening, I received two more Log Deletion notices for caches found several months ago.

All three of these cache have one thing in common and they are owned by the same Premium Member. When I logged them, I used the Boulter's Express Logger website. Is that some sort of a no-no or what?

I've no idea what Boulter's Express Logger website is all about. I've never heard of any guideline along the lines of "Thou shalt not use Suchansuch website to log a find".

The real question is: Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member? And where in the rules or guidelines is that supported?

I'll also assume that these were not PM Only caches. If they were, then that opens up a whole new discussion. If they were just regular caches then, on the face of the details as given, I can't see a reason why your logs have been deleted.

Should I lower myself to his level of foolishness and retaliate by deleting his finds of my caches?

I don't think you should retaliate. Can you wait a while and see what explanation is given (if any) by the cache owner?

And before you suggesting I become a Premium Member, think again. I Do Not Need Or Want It!

/\/(°w°)\/\

OK. I wasn't going to suggest that anyway.

MrsB

3.9k · March 15, 2009

Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member?

Is that exactly what the deletion notice stated or is it what you are assuming ? I think before anyone answers this they would like to know what the deletion notice said, otherwise it is pointless trying to figure it out.

My log entry on this particular cache said exactly the following:

"Found with (cacher's name deleted). SL/TFTC"

As for the Deletion Notice, no cache owner comments were made. He simply deleted it without formality.

But since you requested the exact wording of the notice, the body, without the address header of the message, is as follows:

"Your log entry for the listing {cache name deleted} (Traditional Cache) was deleted by {owners name deleted} at 3/14/2009 10:37:53 PM"

Just because you pay an extra 30 bucks a years is not a valid excuse to warrant the deletion of a valid log entry, just because you are a Premium Member.

If the log entry were insulting or degrading to the cache or it's owner, that would be reasonable grounds for deletion. However, that is not the case with all 3 Deletion Notices that I have now received from this one particular cache owner.

BTW and in the interest of others who don't care for them, keep your personal rants, rave and insults out of your replies, for they only go to show the quality of your character.

You are making a tremendous amount of assumptions, and also attaching a whole lot of importance and significance to them, about why the cache owner deleted your logs, and yet, at this time, your assumptions are entirely unwarranted, as you have NO IDEA why the cache owner deleted your logs. Why not ask her/him politely before jumping to conclusions?

9.3k · March 15, 2009

Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member?

Since Groundspeak decided that each cache owner has the right to police the logs of their caches? You obviously know more than you are telling us, since you "know", (or at least claim to know), that the only reason your logs were deleted was due to you being a non-PM. Can you elaborate on how you acquired this knowledge? I'm not sure the data you provided supports such a conclusion.

And where in the rules or guidelines is that supported?

Cache Maintenance

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

March 15, 2009

Were these PM caches where the logs were deleted? If so that is up to the cache owner. Did you sign the log? If not - once again that is up to the cache owner. While there is no rules against using the express logger, it is not a very gracious thank you to the owner who placed a cache for your enjoyment. From all outward appearances this appears to be a person conflict between two people over something else.

Edit to add - it does appear the log deleted was on a PM cache. While some owners of PM caches allow those who are not PM to log their caches others do not and are well within the guidelines to do so. Reviewing your profile page and reading your first post it appears you do not support the concept of premium membership. I would jump to the conclusions that would be the reason a cache owner would not allow you to log their PM cache. At this point I would be there is still more to the story.

Edited March 15, 2009 by SgtSue

3.2k · March 15, 2009

In answer to your original question, no valid find log should ever be deleted if that log fits within the guidelines.

Answering your assumption, non-PMs are free to find PMOC's and their valid find/dnf logs should likewise not be deleted.

Can a owner delete anty log? Yes. They technically have that right however on rare occasions GC has found it prudent to restore and lock logs.

Now I have a feeling, since I have no facts to go on, with no further information, this may have something to do with the paragraph at the end of your profile page. Still not an acceptable reason to delete, but may be the issue none the less.

March 15, 2009

The saga continues.....

3.9k · March 15, 2009

The saga continues.....

Yes, I had a very uneasy feeling, as I read the original post, the the OP not only had a hidden agenda, but that there was FAR more to the story than was disclosed. Then, as I walked away from my PC, heading downstairs to feed our cats and dog, I remembered that the OP has been involved in some kind of strange anti-Premium member agenda for quite a while, and I also remembered this same thread (and others by the OP in the same vein.) Thank you, Freekacher, for having taken the time to have found the thread and linked it. I suspect that what this all REALLY means is that the OP badly needs a nap!

Edited March 15, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

March 15, 2009

Surprised nobody's made the point but one thing I'd question is, if you're a non-premium member, how'd you get the PMO coordinates in the first place? That seems to be a li'l detail you selectively omitted from your plea.

Then I'd ask that, if you crash a party uninvited, wouldn't you expect to get tossed out on yer ear?

Looks like that's what the CO did here.

But-t-t-t-t.....maybe that qualifies as a rant.....if so, just don't read it, kthxby.

~*

18.9k · March 15, 2009

Cache Maintenance
The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

Could that clause be the problem?? Did you not do something that may have been required by the owner for logging?

Such caches should technically be listed as "?" type caches but some older ones did not get changed.

2.5k · March 15, 2009

You can drop to his leave and delete his finds on your caches, but is it really worth it? A donkey will be a donkey. I'm sure there are plenty of more caches to find other than the that he/she owns. :rolleyes:

2.7k · March 15, 2009

I am asking the Moderator to terminate this and any other thread that I may have generated in the recent past!

This post has been edited by Fledermaus: Sep 1 2008, 12:52 AM

I drug this over here from another of this OP's many troll threads. Hopefully the OP will get frustarated with us again, and repeat this request.

March 15, 2009

I am asking the Moderator to terminate this and any other thread that I may have generated in the recent past!

This post has been edited by Fledermaus: Sep 1 2008, 12:52 AM

I drug this over here from another of this OP's many troll threads. Hopefully the OP will get frustarated with us again, and repeat this request.

:rolleyes:

9.3k · March 15, 2009

You'd think that someone who's been caching since November 01 would have at least a working knowledge of the guidelines... :rolleyes:

3.3k · March 15, 2009

Edited cos it is just not worth it for a troll

Yep he trolled this topic before.

Thanks, but no thanks!

PM vs Non-PM caches & cachers.

1.2k · March 15, 2009

Should I lower myself to his level of foolishness and retaliate by deleting his finds of my caches?

/\/(°w°)\/\

Regardless of the motive of the OP but regarding the topic of log deletions, please folks, don't engage in unnecessary log deletions! We have a few self-righteous geocachers in our area who delete logs because they don't like other geocachers. All that has been accomplished is to create a war that has grown UGLY! If someone didn't find the cache or did not comply with logging requirements that's one thing but because you are mad...............that's childish! :rolleyes:

1.2k · March 15, 2009

Sorry for the repeat! Edited.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Konnarock Kid & Marge

March 15, 2009

As co-owner of some of these caches, I will take the opportunity to get the whole thing out there, but first, Fledermaus, let me ask you this. If you and a friend go to a movie, do you have your friend pay for the movie and then sneak you in through the back door so you can watch it for free? Or, more to the point, do you go with a friend to the YMCA, and after using their entire allotment of guest passes, have them sneak you into their paid-for-service so that you can use it for free? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that no, you would not. Yet you think it is ok to do it in this situation? The fact of the matter is, PMOC caches are “subscriber-only caches”. Quite literally, that means that only subscribers can take advantage of them. They are restricted to members who have paid to access them. What you want to be allowed to do is basically get first class airfare when you are only paying for coach. I’m sorry. But that is not how it works. The saying is “you get what you pay for” and you are getting what you pay for – access to all the caches on the site that are not restricted to subscriber only. If you want access to them, cough up the 3 bucks a month. If you don’t want to cough up the cash, then stop crying about the restriction. That restriction is an added benefit for people who pay to support the site and the sport.

Now, let’s share with the forum a little background information. The cache owner you are complaining about and you have a bit of history, don’t you? You got snide with that person and ended up being told to not contact him. You continued to do so, didn’t you? You even went so far as to create a fake email and email this person. You even put in this email that you created the new account because “Calculating that you may have blocked my other account, I have this to say:” Why would you write that? Because you had been told several times already to not contact this person. He was clear – “I shall not expect nor accept any further communication from you.” You engaged in a hostile onslaught of harassment against a fellow cacher because of your own personal issues. Since that time, he has not located any of your caches and has ignored any logs you have made on his.

Now, in regards to this particular situation; We, as in the cache owner and myself, realized that your log was on a PMOC. That led us to wonder how you were able to log a PMOC. Either you secretly had a PM or you were backdooring the site. We have since found out about the backdoor and now understand how you did it. We left your log. It was no big deal. However, the next day, we found out that you had not signed the actual log at that location. We went out to the cache, pulled the log and, upon visual inspection, saw that you had logged a cache that you were not entitled to log because you did not sign the log. The friend you were “with” signed, so it’s not like you couldn’t open the container, or didn’t have a pen, or any of the legitimate reasons for not signing and still claiming. It was, at that point, your log was deleted. Had your signature been on the logbook, your entry would have been left and we would have continued to get a chuckle out of the fact that a person who is so vehemently against “caching for the numbers” or against PMOC’s finds ways to find and log those caches anyhow. The fact is, you were deleted because of your failure to properly log the cache. Your other finds were deleted because of two reasons…one, your improper logging of caches (without actually signing the cache log) calls into question your credibility and the validity of ALL your finds, and two, they are subscriber only caches and you are not allowed to log/claim them. Pretty simple.

For a man who has NON-PREMIUM ONLY caches that specifically state that “your log will be deleted if you find this cache and are a premium member”, I find it extremely hypocritical of you to cry about the PMOC. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And for somebody who has very vocally decried a local Challenge because it is most easily utilized by PMs, and have even gone so far as to state that you will delete any logs on your caches that are used for that Challenge “at my discretion”, you want to cry about not being allowed to log PMOC’s? Your sense of self-entitlement is amazing. Simply amazing.

May I also point out, you have not been deleted from any of our caches that are not PMOC, nor will you. When I change over my caches to PMOC, and after I verify that your signature is actually on my logbooks at those caches, your logs will not be removed because you validly found them. However, let it be known, if you are not a premium member and you log any of mine, or the cacher you are having an issue with’s premium caches, your log will be deleted. Had your prior contacts not been so disagreeable and harassing, this would not have been an issue. You could have cheated the system all you wanted. However, because of your own course of action, this is the result. Consider it my form of a geocaching restraining order.

5.2k · March 15, 2009

I always enjoy a well-informed rebuttal.

:rolleyes:

March 15, 2009

I always enjoy a well-informed rebuttal.

Glad to oblige! :unsure:

2.8k · March 15, 2009

That was definitely worth the wait... :rolleyes:

6.5k · March 15, 2009

The sound of the other side of the story is often sweet music.

Much different than the thud of the other shoe falling. :rolleyes:

8.3k · March 15, 2009

Just heard a voice from above proclaiming "And that is the rest of the story".

Jim

9.3k · March 15, 2009

Quite simply, a work of art. Thanx TurtleFinder! :rolleyes:

3.9k · March 15, 2009

As co-owner of some of these caches, I will take the opportunity to get the whole thing out there, but first, Fledermaus, let me ask you this. If you and a friend go to a movie, do you have your friend pay for the movie and then sneak you in through the back door so you can watch it for free? Or, more to the point, do you go with a friend to the YMCA, and after using their entire allotment of guest passes, have them sneak you into their paid-for-service so that you can use it for free? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that no, you would not. Yet you think it is ok to do it in this situation? The fact of the matter is, PMOC caches are “subscriber-only caches”. Quite literally, that means that only subscribers can take advantage of them. They are restricted to members who have paid to access them. What you want to be allowed to do is basically get first class airfare when you are only paying for coach. I’m sorry. But that is not how it works. The saying is “you get what you pay for” and you are getting what you pay for – access to all the caches on the site that are not restricted to subscriber only. If you want access to them, cough up the 3 bucks a month. If you don’t want to cough up the cash, then stop crying about the restriction. That restriction is an added benefit for people who pay to support the site and the sport.

Now, let’s share with the forum a little background information. The cache owner you are complaining about and you have a bit of history, don’t you? You got snide with that person and ended up being told to not contact him. You continued to do so, didn’t you? You even went so far as to create a fake email and email this person. You even put in this email that you created the new account because “Calculating that you may have blocked my other account, I have this to say:” Why would you write that? Because you had been told several times already to not contact this person. He was clear – “I shall not expect nor accept any further communication from you.” You engaged in a hostile onslaught of harassment against a fellow cacher because of your own personal issues. Since that time, he has not located any of your caches and has ignored any logs you have made on his.

Now, in regards to this particular situation; We, as in the cache owner and myself, realized that your log was on a PMOC. That led us to wonder how you were able to log a PMOC. Either you secretly had a PM or you were backdooring the site. We have since found out about the backdoor and now understand how you did it. We left your log. It was no big deal. However, the next day, we found out that you had not signed the actual log at that location. We went out to the cache, pulled the log and, upon visual inspection, saw that you had logged a cache that you were not entitled to log because you did not sign the log. The friend you were “with” signed, so it’s not like you couldn’t open the container, or didn’t have a pen, or any of the legitimate reasons for not signing and still claiming. It was, at that point, your log was deleted. Had your signature been on the logbook, your entry would have been left and we would have continued to get a chuckle out of the fact that a person who is so vehemently against “caching for the numbers” or against PMOC’s finds ways to find and log those caches anyhow. The fact is, you were deleted because of your failure to properly log the cache. Your other finds were deleted because of two reasons…one, your improper logging of caches (without actually signing the cache log) calls into question your credibility and the validity of ALL your finds, and two, they are subscriber only caches and you are not allowed to log/claim them. Pretty simple.

For a man who has NON-PREMIUM ONLY caches that specifically state that “your log will be deleted if you find this cache and are a premium member”, I find it extremely hypocritical of you to cry about the PMOC. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And for somebody who has very vocally decried a local Challenge because it is most easily utilized by PMs, and have even gone so far as to state that you will delete any logs on your caches that are used for that Challenge “at my discretion”, you want to cry about not being allowed to log PMOC’s? Your sense of self-entitlement is amazing. Simply amazing.

May I also point out, you have not been deleted from any of our caches that are not PMOC, nor will you. When I change over my caches to PMOC, and after I verify that your signature is actually on my logbooks at those caches, your logs will not be removed because you validly found them. However, let it be known, if you are not a premium member and you log any of mine, or the cacher you are having an issue with’s premium caches, your log will be deleted. Had your prior contacts not been so disagreeable and harassing, this would not have been an issue. You could have cheated the system all you wanted. However, because of your own course of action, this is the result. Consider it my form of a geocaching restraining order.

Thanks for saying that well and clearly. Your post above, along with the summary weight of the OP's original post in this thread, and the weight of many of the other threads started by the OP, illustrates well the fact that, as is true in all endeavours, there are some rather damaged people who end up in this sport! As a result of the history accrued by him, currently, in my eye, the status of the OP is nothing more than that of a "compulsive troller". Sad. Very sad.

.

March 15, 2009

Rock on, Turtlefinder!!! Here are my thoughts:

What do you (Fledermaus) hope to gain by posting your complaints here? Do you really think anyone is going to agree with you? Most of us in Kitsap County have had some kind of negative experience with you. No wonder you went outside of the Northwest forums to plead your case. You know you won't find any sympathy there. I cannot possibly imagine what you get out of this. I also cannot understand any cacher that would even admit to caching with you. Not good.

I also have a history. "Someone" tried to have one of my caches removed from a business by telling the owner that kids were passing drugs to each other through my fake rock cache. Seriously? This person scared the heck out of the girls working there and they almost called the police on him. They didn't for a second believe what he was saying. Due to the description they gave us of the man, we knew who it was. This all happened after I commented on some of his nasty behavior in the past. We could write a book of the stuff this cacher has pulled.

I think the only thing we can do is make it clear that this isn't going to continue. This is a hobby/sport/addiction of pure fun for most of us. I personally enjoy finding caches and interacting with fellow cachers. When someone is mean-spirited and harassing, it takes away the enjoyment for everyone else. I am not intimidated by the bully attitude. If my containers come up missing, I will replace them. If you enjoy making puzzle caches that only a math genius can find, fine. If you want to hide a cache 50 ft. up in a tree with no branches, fine. If you want to hide a cache that no one can find and laugh at the DNF's, fine. If you don't find any enjoyment in caching except the hurting of fellow cachers, why are you here?

I say enough is enough. Take your hate and discontent and find another group of people to torment. I think this group is fed up with you and your antics.

2.5k · March 15, 2009

As co-owner of some of these caches, I will take the opportunity to get the whole thing out there, but first, Fledermaus, let me ask you this. If you and a friend go to a movie, do you have your friend pay for the movie and then sneak you in through the back door so you can watch it for free? Or, more to the point, do you go with a friend to the YMCA, and after using their entire allotment of guest passes, have them sneak you into their paid-for-service so that you can use it for free? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that no, you would not. Yet you think it is ok to do it in this situation? The fact of the matter is, PMOC caches are “subscriber-only caches”. Quite literally, that means that only subscribers can take advantage of them. They are restricted to members who have paid to access them. What you want to be allowed to do is basically get first class airfare when you are only paying for coach. I’m sorry. But that is not how it works. The saying is “you get what you pay for” and you are getting what you pay for – access to all the caches on the site that are not restricted to subscriber only. If you want access to them, cough up the 3 bucks a month. If you don’t want to cough up the cash, then stop crying about the restriction. That restriction is an added benefit for people who pay to support the site and the sport.

Now, let’s share with the forum a little background information. The cache owner you are complaining about and you have a bit of history, don’t you? You got snide with that person and ended up being told to not contact him. You continued to do so, didn’t you? You even went so far as to create a fake email and email this person. You even put in this email that you created the new account because “Calculating that you may have blocked my other account, I have this to say:” Why would you write that? Because you had been told several times already to not contact this person. He was clear – “I shall not expect nor accept any further communication from you.” You engaged in a hostile onslaught of harassment against a fellow cacher because of your own personal issues. Since that time, he has not located any of your caches and has ignored any logs you have made on his.

Now, in regards to this particular situation; We, as in the cache owner and myself, realized that your log was on a PMOC. That led us to wonder how you were able to log a PMOC. Either you secretly had a PM or you were backdooring the site. We have since found out about the backdoor and now understand how you did it. We left your log. It was no big deal. However, the next day, we found out that you had not signed the actual log at that location. We went out to the cache, pulled the log and, upon visual inspection, saw that you had logged a cache that you were not entitled to log because you did not sign the log. The friend you were “with” signed, so it’s not like you couldn’t open the container, or didn’t have a pen, or any of the legitimate reasons for not signing and still claiming. It was, at that point, your log was deleted. Had your signature been on the logbook, your entry would have been left and we would have continued to get a chuckle out of the fact that a person who is so vehemently against “caching for the numbers” or against PMOC’s finds ways to find and log those caches anyhow. The fact is, you were deleted because of your failure to properly log the cache. Your other finds were deleted because of two reasons…one, your improper logging of caches (without actually signing the cache log) calls into question your credibility and the validity of ALL your finds, and two, they are subscriber only caches and you are not allowed to log/claim them. Pretty simple.

For a man who has NON-PREMIUM ONLY caches that specifically state that “your log will be deleted if you find this cache and are a premium member”, I find it extremely hypocritical of you to cry about the PMOC. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And for somebody who has very vocally decried a local Challenge because it is most easily utilized by PMs, and have even gone so far as to state that you will delete any logs on your caches that are used for that Challenge “at my discretion”, you want to cry about not being allowed to log PMOC’s? Your sense of self-entitlement is amazing. Simply amazing.

May I also point out, you have not been deleted from any of our caches that are not PMOC, nor will you. When I change over my caches to PMOC, and after I verify that your signature is actually on my logbooks at those caches, your logs will not be removed because you validly found them. However, let it be known, if you are not a premium member and you log any of mine, or the cacher you are having an issue with’s premium caches, your log will be deleted. Had your prior contacts not been so disagreeable and harassing, this would not have been an issue. You could have cheated the system all you wanted. However, because of your own course of action, this is the result. Consider it my form of a geocaching restraining order.

I like the part where you said,"We left your log. It was no big deal." But after reading the rest, it looked like it was a big deal to go out and check the log book in the cache. I'm sure there is more to this. :rolleyes:

March 15, 2009

I like the part where you said,"We left your log. It was no big deal." But after reading the rest, it looked like it was a big deal to go out and check the log book in the cache. I'm sure there is more to this.

What more could you want? :rolleyes:

Edited March 15, 2009 by Freekacher

2.8k · March 15, 2009

I like the part where you said,"We left your log. It was no big deal." But after reading the rest, it looked like it was a big deal to go out and check the log book in the cache. I'm sure there is more to this.

[bugs Bunny Voice]You don't know the OP very well, do you?[/Voice]

:rolleyes:

March 15, 2009

However, the next day, we found out that you had not signed the actual log at that location.

I like the part where you said,"We left your log. It was no big deal." But after reading the rest, it looked like it was a big deal to go out and check the log book in the cache. I'm sure there is more to this.

A non-premium member logging a find on a PMOC is no big deal. Therefore, his log was left alone. When we were told that he had not signed the log by somebody whom we trust, and we were driving within 10 feet of our cache, it was no big deal to stop.

Logging a find when you didn't actually make it is, in my mind, an extremely deceitful thing to do. Heck, I could find caches in every state within minutes, without leaving the comfort of my own home. But that's not the rule, intent or spirit of the game. Groundspeak says it best

Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.

It's pretty simple. Sign the logbook. If you can't understand the difference between the two...I'm not sure I can help ya out here.

1.4k · March 15, 2009

I found it quite amusing this poster claims he doesn't want or need any of the perks for being a premium member. Then comes on the forums to complain that he can't take advantage of one of the perks (Premium member only caches.) :rolleyes: :unsure:

March 16, 2009

Well put snookie74 :rolleyes:

March 16, 2009

Rock on, Turtlefinder!!! Here are my thoughts:

What do you (Fledermaus) hope to gain by posting your complaints here? Do you really think anyone is going to agree with you? Most of us in Kitsap County have had some kind of negative experience with you. No wonder you went outside of the Northwest forums to plead your case. You know you won't find any sympathy there. I cannot possibly imagine what you get out of this. I also cannot understand any cacher that would even admit to caching with you. Not good.

I also have a history. "Someone" tried to have one of my caches removed from a business by telling the owner that kids were passing drugs to each other through my fake rock cache. Seriously? This person scared the heck out of the girls working there and they almost called the police on him. They didn't for a second believe what he was saying. Due to the description they gave us of the man, we knew who it was. This all happened after I commented on some of his nasty behavior in the past. We could write a book of the stuff this cacher has pulled.

I think the only thing we can do is make it clear that this isn't going to continue. This is a hobby/sport/addiction of pure fun for most of us. I personally enjoy finding caches and interacting with fellow cachers. When someone is mean-spirited and harassing, it takes away the enjoyment for everyone else. I am not intimidated by the bully attitude. If my containers come up missing, I will replace them. If you enjoy making puzzle caches that only a math genius can find, fine. If you want to hide a cache 50 ft. up in a tree with no branches, fine. If you want to hide a cache that no one can find and laugh at the DNF's, fine. If you don't find any enjoyment in caching except the hurting of fellow cachers, why are you here?

I say enough is enough. Take your hate and discontent and find another group of people to torment. I think this group is fed up with you and your antics.

I had to hit the quote button on this simply because it is so dang accurate!! Thank you Snookie, for saying the things I didn't get around to saying!!!

YOU rock!!!

Have you asked the cache owner why he/she deleted your logs?

While I wouldn't want to nor will I speak for Fledermaus, I will put out there that, due to his last round of harassing the other cacher, they were both advised to avoid contact with each other. I personally know that is why the other cacher has not been involved in Fleder... caches at all, or in this forum. He wishes no contact with him.

Edited March 16, 2009 by TurtleFinder

6.1k · March 16, 2009

A geocaching friend of mine from out of town came to visit me a couple of days ago. We decided to do some nearby caches that he had selected in advance. Needless to say, we both found all of them, went to our homes, filed our logs later that night and thought nothing of it until today.

Today, I get a Log Deletion notice for one of those caches. Furthermore and later in the evening, I received two more Log Deletion notices for caches found several months ago.

All three of these cache have one thing in common and they are owned by the same Premium Member. When I logged them, I used the Boulter's Express Logger website. Is that some sort of a no-no or what?

The real question is: Since when is it appropriate for a Premium Member to delete a valid log entry, based solely on the fact that I am a Non-Premium Member? And where in the rules or guidelines is that supported?

Should I lower myself to his level of foolishness and retaliate by deleting his finds of my caches?

And before you suggesting I become a Premium Member, think again. I Do Not Need Or Want It!

/\/(°w°)\/\

The log deletion was OK since he used the Boulter's Express Premium Check Logger website to immediately send him an alert of someone trying to sneak a log in through the back door without asking first. :rolleyes:

Edited March 16, 2009 by 4wheelin_fool

March 16, 2009

Fledermaus....utterly lame.

March 16, 2009

Holy checkmate, Batman!

:rolleyes:

~*

1.4k · March 16, 2009

sigh

March 16, 2009

sigh

That sums this whole situation up EXACTLY!!!! Thank you.

1.4k · March 16, 2009

WELL DONE, TURTLE!! WELL DONE

March 16, 2009

Oh and did I mention

..it goes on and on and on and on and on, I think the OP needs a song..hit it boys!

Same song different thread............

March 16, 2009

Oh and did I mention ..it goes on and on and on and on and on, I think the OP needs a song..hit it boys! Same song different thread............

You said it, Hawk.

Turtlefinder and Snookie....You ROCK!

It is a sad, sad day when, with all the truly horrific in the world, that someone has to manipulate something that actually brings a bit of joy into the lives of others.

March 16, 2009

So I had to go check out his profile....is this guy for real? Honestly, I am almost tempted to buy him a gift membership just to tick him off.

I love #1..."1. I am not into (geo)caching for the points, the glory or any competitive aspects of it. I am just doing it for the fun of it."

IF THAT'S THE CASE WHY IS THIS THREAD HERE? can't find a smiley that conveys "DORK"....will keep looking....

Fledermaus

Vlad Tepis

Member Since: Tuesday, November 27, 2001

Last Visit: Sunday, March 15, 2009

Status: Member (Give a Gift Membership)

Email Address: Send Message

Home Page: Visit Homepage

Occupation Fluidic Control Specialist

Location: Carpaithian Mtn., Transylvania - 66666-6666

Forum Title:

See the forum posts for this user

Profile Information:

It's time to do some house cleaning! Throughtout the month of January, 2009, I will be re-evaluating several of my caches for archival on GC. Their replacements may or may not be found on WWW.ATLASQUEST.COM or WWW.LETTERBOXING.ORG as Real Letterbox caches and/or installed with Less Bureauacracy on the WWW.TERRACACHING.COM website or elsewhere!.

Furthormore, it is still my firm belief that since Premium Members(PMs) are allowed to limit their caches to other PMs only, then Non-Premium Members(NPMs) should have equal rights, i.e. to limit their caches to NPMs only as well !.

Just because you may have paid for "extra" services, doesn't give you the right to call NPMs "leachs" in the forums. For the record, I have no use for any the "extras" afforded to PMs and I choose to remain a "leach". Why pay for sevices I don't need, want or use? Yes, I can afford it, but that's not the issue is it?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MY MISSION STATEMENT!

To "raise the bar" a little and provide a level of (geo)caching beyond the typical and/or usual "Lamp-Post" or "Guard-Rail" Micro/Nano caches, which are so often placed by "Newbies" or by those who have little or no imagination.

COMMENTS:

1. I am not into (geo)caching for the points, the glory or any competitive aspects of it. I am just doing it for the fun of it.

2. Ordinary people create ordinary caches, I am not ordinary! Try "thinking outside the box" the next time you create your next cache!

3. Forums are great places to openly discuss many diverse topics. However, there are too many "Forum Lizards"(as I call them) who have nothing better to do with their time than to demean others for their own personal gratification!

4. Since some of you "FLs" like to look up the GC Profiles of those who ask legitimate forum questions, the following is directed towards you:

5. Is it possible for you to actually provide an honest answer to an honest question without bringing into play the questioner's caching history, forum activity or even degrading the question itself?

6. The next time you decide to answer someones question or explain something, no matter who the inquiror is, try leaving out your personal rants, raves, rhetoric, ridicule et cetera!

March 16, 2009

So I had to go check out his profile....is this guy for real? Honestly, I am almost tempted to buy him a gift membership just to tick him off.

That has been tried before... Thanks, But No Thanks!, I'm a happy NPMer!

My Question

He has geocided a number of times, terracided at least once. Can someone letterboxcide ? :rolleyes:

Edited March 16, 2009 by FunnyNose

6.5k · March 16, 2009

I think they have to lick the toxic stamps like George's fiancee did. :rolleyes:

(yes I know it was envelopes and not stamps.)

March 16, 2009

Confused here? Is Fleder a pm or non-pm. I thought only pm's could make cache hides? and or get gps coords? Sure sounds like he/she is pm by the posts. I know this is a thread of deleted logs by the guy/gal based on non-logging and non-pm. If so why can't someone just delete all of the offending Fleder LIZZARD posts logs caches etc... He/she seems to be acting exactly like his supposed profile is ademently against. :rolleyes:

Log Deletions

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment