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Baked_Beans

Photos at earthcaches

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Hallo,

 

many earthcaches owners demand photos of the cacher at the site. Actually, we've just come across somebody who denies any logs of photos without the cachers' faces.

 

Is this fair??? And what about us ugly cachers who don't want to be all over the internet?! ;)

 

But seriously, what do you think? Is it okay to ask people to take such photos?

 

Regards,

Baked_Beans

 

:anibad:

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I really don't see what is so bad about their request. It's just their way to see that you was really there and not a armchair cacher. It's their cache and if the logging requirements aren't met, they have the right to delete the log.

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I agree that it is appropriate to ask for the pictures. I however like you hate my mug in the pictures.

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Many EarthCache owners require it for a varitey of reasons:

 

1. As proof of your visit.

2. They like to see pictures of the cachers that visit their EarthCaches.

3. They are under the mistaken impression that it is normal to do this.

 

To the best of my knowledge, it is neither required nor suggested by EarthCache.org that a photo be any part of the requirements of logging a find on an EartheCache.

 

It is completely within the right of the EarthCache owner to require that a picture be included with the log. It is also their right to delete logs that don't meet this requirement.

 

There are many other ways to determine if a cacher has actually visited the EarthCache site.

 

I have EarthCaches that go both ways on this subject. Some require photos and some require the answering of a question that you would only know if you where actually there.

 

And then there is the question of how stringently you enforce the photo requirement.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

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Go down to your nearest novelty store and get a pair of those glasses with the big fake nose and bushy eyebrows. Put 'em in your geocaching bag for special occasions, like this cache.

 

I like Juicepig's suggestion too, didn't think of that one. Cut a couple of holes for eyes, and you can get a second job as the Unknown Comic. Remember him? Gong!

Edited by GrizzFlyer

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Hallo,

 

many earthcaches owners demand photos of the cacher at the site. Actually, we've just come across somebody who denies any logs of photos without the cachers' faces.

 

Is this fair??? And what about us ugly cachers who don't want to be all over the internet?! :)

 

But seriously, what do you think? Is it okay to ask people to take such photos?

 

Regards,

Baked_Beans

 

:(

I require the photo of yourself in the cache requirements to prevent ARM CHAIR CACHING that is why I have it.

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Go down to your nearest novelty store and get a pair of those glasses with the big fake nose and bushy eyebrows. Put 'em in your geocaching bag for special occasions, like this cache.

 

I like Juicepig's suggestion too, didn't think of that one. Cut a couple of holes for eyes, and you can get a second job as the Unknown Comic. Remember him? Gong!

That would be fine with me too. :(

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I understand the reasons and the request seems valid to act as proof. However, I know of cachers who refuse to place images of their children in the internet - I can understand that also. So in order to circumvent this I sometimes request that they send me pics via PM in which case the log goes pictureless or with a "locationless-style " picture, i.e. the area with the gps in the photo.

Having said that, I am known to the local geocaching community and they know what sort of requirements need to be met for a found in one of my EC's. I also have not deleted any logs for lack of photographic proof. My point of view is that: Let there be armchair geocachers. Those that want to get out and learn something will. those that cheat have a + 1 on their tally but have missed out on the process of discovery.

 

I opt to believe that people will rather go for option 1.

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I've wondered about this, too. - I figure I might give the "peace sign" in front of an EC, and hope that is satisfactory. :ph34r:

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I met a geocacher at a recent event that has a travel bug stuffed animal named buddy that he takes with him. At virtual and Earthcaches that require photos he takes a picture of buddy holding the gps to log his find.

 

That might be an option especially for solo cachers.

 

Oh, just remembered... His username is something like me and buddy so buddy is actually a geocacher partner.

 

An inanimate partner, but nonetheless it seems to work.

Edited by teamhaynes

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Depending on the type of EarthCache some distance measurements can be now done on Goggle Earth. Others sometimes tend to pass the answers on from one cacher to another. I know I've done some EarthCaches where the log says to take the photo like they have. Well, I cache paperless and have no idea in the field what their photo looks like. My requirements are generic in that you must photograph yourself at the location. It doesn't say your face needs to be in it. Now, I don't really want any moon shots either. This is a family site :)

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I've got a few EarthCaches that ask for "a photo of you and your gps at the site" --but I'm not hung up on being able to identify the person by face in the photo...The point is to assure me you were there, so any photo you obviously took will do.

 

One lady has a cartoon theme for her caching name, and they always use a toy from the line for their proof photos. Fine by me. Others have given me silhouettes, or long distance shots, or shots of them looking away from the camera and toward the interesting feature. A hand holding the gps will do, as far as I'm concerned. I understand not wanting photos of your children on the Internet, and I can work around that, no problem.

 

I really like it when folks post lots of shots, mostly of the scenery. It makes me feel like they really appreciated the area. I do like seeing the cachers, too ~ maybe that will help me ID them at an event sometime, so I can go introduce myself ~ but I don't get upset if I can't see the face.

 

I look at it this way: If you don't really go there, you are only cheating yourself. I've been there. I saw it for myself, I learned something, and I enjoyed myself. That's not to say I let obvious fake logs go without acting on them. I just don't spend my days playing CSI detective looking to see if people lie and hoping to catch them at it.

 

Interestingly enough, I know of a couple of people who are concerned about people who "cheat" on their EarthCaches, and yet, I don't see their name on the log of traditional caches they been to ahead of me.

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I've got a few EarthCaches that ask for "a photo of you and your gps at the site" --but I'm not hung up on being able to identify the person by face in the photo...The point is to assure me you were there, so any photo you obviously took will do.

 

One lady has a cartoon theme for her caching name, and they always use a toy from the line for their proof photos. Fine by me. Others have given me silhouettes, or long distance shots, or shots of them looking away from the camera and toward the interesting feature. A hand holding the gps will do, as far as I'm concerned. I understand not wanting photos of your children on the Internet, and I can work around that, no problem.

 

I really like it when folks post lots of shots, mostly of the scenery. It makes me feel like they really appreciated the area. I do like seeing the cachers, too ~ maybe that will help me ID them at an event sometime, so I can go introduce myself ~ but I don't get upset if I can't see the face.

 

I look at it this way: If you don't really go there, you are only cheating yourself. I've been there. I saw it for myself, I learned something, and I enjoyed myself. That's not to say I let obvious fake logs go without acting on them. I just don't spend my days playing CSI detective looking to see if people lie and hoping to catch them at it.

 

Interestingly enough, I know of a couple of people who are concerned about people who "cheat" on their EarthCaches, and yet, I don't see their name on the log of traditional caches they been to ahead of me.

 

We couldn't have said it better. Yes, Marge and I like to know the cache was actually found but we don't want to be geopolice! :)

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So you are ugly (or so you think). So what? Who cares? Put your mug up there.

 

On my earthcaches, I ask for photos with faces. On most of them, I even provide an example of the type of photo I want. Why? Multiple reasons. One is because I want to see your face, simple as that. I want my earthcaches filled to the brim with faces. Go take a look at one of mine - The Limestone Manifold (GC17XNX). GC17XNX

 

Then take a look at the gallery, and tell me that is not a great collection of photos. There are over 200 photos in there, and almost all of them are smiling. No ugliness there.

 

Another reason I want faces is that I have had people actually try to fake photos - photochopping something together or grabbing existing images from somewhere else that just shows the rock or whatever, etc.

 

And if there is something so overpowering in yourself that you simply cannot bring yourself to showing a photo of yourself, then just leave that cache alone, and go do some of the thousands of other geocaches out there that you can do. There seems to be this belief in people that they have to be able to get every geocache out there, and that is just not true. The earthcache wants a picture of you, and if you are just not able to provide a picture of you, then it is obviously a geocache that falls outside of the criteria that defines geocaches that you are able to complete - so you should ignore it and go do something else. Similar to the geocache that is atop a sheer rock cliff - some people can't get to that one, and they shouldn't try, and they should come to terms with that and go do other ones.

 

Now, on the other hand, I've told you that I want faces, and that is a request that I am going to put in my earthcaches, but if you were to contact me and explain your dilemma, and you did visit the earthcache, then I'm sure we could work out an exception.

 

And about ugliness. I have lived 40something years and have seen a lot of people, and I haven't seen an ugly person yet - except for killers and such. I bet other people don't think you are ugly.

Edited by bennet

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It's my understanding that these additional logging requirements are no longer applicable, or did I read the wrong end of the recent changes to the cache listing guidelines ?

 

Edit to add:

Yep, I think I read it wrong - although earthcache.org merely state "Also, photographs of visits are strongly encouraged and the number of people who were in the group." (my emphasis), it doesn't state that photographs are required.

 

But from the Earth Caches that I have done it would certainly not be possible to do them from an armchair and I would have thought that any such caches where it might feasibly be possible to do so could be weeded out at the approval stage.

Edited by Tooey

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It's my understanding that these additional logging requirements are no longer applicable, or did I read the wrong end of the recent changes to the cache listing guidelines ?

Earthcaches and Virtual Caches do not apply to the new changes.

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It's my understanding that these additional logging requirements are no longer applicable, or did I read the wrong end of the recent changes to the cache listing guidelines ?

Earthcaches and Virtual Caches do not apply to the new changes.

 

Thanks Buddaman for the clarification, I went back and took another deckie at the guidelines and amended my post accordingly. I can understand and see why it is requested, I just don't see why it should be a logging requirement, although I would much prefer that people posted photographs for all caches - but that's just a personal preference B)

 

Edit to add:

I have to admit that I quite often forget to take my camera with me, and even when I do I don't always get it out, and even when I manage to do that and take pics - I don't always upload my photos :laughing:

Edited by Tooey

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I really think there ought to be photographs taken at EarthCaches.

 

I say that because I love to travel, and I love to see geologic wonders, but I'll never live long enough to go all the places I want to go. At least I can live vicariously through the photos.

 

I also use the photo with my Earth & Space classes. While we have the fabulous Falls of the Ohio State Park (with it's marvelous fossils that people come to see from all over the world) within walking distance of our school, there are many types of features in the world that we just don't have in our area. I can show my students photos of all those cool things.

 

Just another reason why I am not hung up on photos of people faces as proof of a visit.

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Hallo,

 

many earthcaches owners demand photos of the cacher at the site. Actually, we've just come across somebody who denies any logs of photos without the cachers' faces.

 

Is this fair??? And what about us ugly cachers who don't want to be all over the internet?! :D

 

But seriously, what do you think? Is it okay to ask people to take such photos?

 

Regards,

Baked_Beans

 

:P

Edited by GEO WALKER

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Hallo,

 

many earthcaches owners demand photos of the cacher at the site. Actually, we've just come across somebody who denies any logs of photos without the cachers' faces.

 

Is this fair??? And what about us ugly cachers who don't want to be all over the internet?! :D

 

But seriously, what do you think? Is it okay to ask people to take such photos?

 

Regards,

Baked_Beans

 

:P

 

I can see the use of the photo for verification but the questions should also verify the visit.

As for the “ugly cacher syndrome”, do what I do... I have found a baseball cap, sunglasses and a beard are quite helpful. Here in Pittsburgh some of the local banks asking for the removal of ball caps and sunglasses.

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What? nobody has Photoshop??? ;-)

Yes, I have photoshop but I am not that expert enough to tell if it has been used to show a find of one of our ECs. I suspect one photo that was used with a 'back door' log was touched up but like I said, I am not expert enough to be sure.

Oh well, if a cacher wants to go to that extreme to log a find, that's their problem (with their conscience) and not mind. As I have said many, many times, I don't want to get into the business of being the geopolice! There are some folks out there who are unethical and are driven strictly by the numbers and will do almost anything to up their totals, but thank God they are in the minority. :unsure:

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It's the owner's cache, so I don't complain. I also won't be logging any caches that require a photo of our faces. I will happily take a pic of my GPS at the location. I have also thought of making a sort of proxy item to be in photos if it ever comes up -- a little stuffed creature or somesuch that goes where we go.

 

--Susan

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I still like seeing their happy smiling mugs. :D

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I am planning on doind a EarthCache in starved rock tomorrow, maybe I'll have a great picture to post here. ;)

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Many earthcaches owners demand photos of the cacher at the site. Actually, we've just come across somebody who denies any logs of photos without the cachers' faces.

 

I ran into this "face photo" issue with one of the earth caches I did a few years ago. I answered all the questions in my email to the owner(correctly) and when I posted my log online I didn't post a picture right away because I was using an open wifi connection before I got home.

In my log I stated I would post my photo as soon as I got home, less than an hour later I got a nasty email from the cache owner saying my log would be deleted if I didn't post my photo within the next few hours.

 

I never do a whole face shot for any of my photos(since I don't want my picture online), but I never thought this was going to be an issue too. I uploaded my photo that showed me at the location holding my gps in my hand with half my face & body in the side of the image.

A few hours later I got another nasty email from the cache owner saying they didn't like me playing games and I didn't meet the requirements for the photo & they were deleting my find.

 

After a few emails back and forth the owner wouldn't give at all so I decided to re-post my log on the cache. He proceeded to delete my log again, and again & after a half dozen times of him deleting my log finally decided I wasn't going to give up & let me keep my find. I know I could have handled the whole thing differently & just let the owner enjoy his anal power trip, but I did complete the cache & even had photo proof I was there but that wasn't good enough. I think this whole face photo thing is ridiculous but can see not wanting a bunch of photos of peoples hands holding GPS's.

 

This whole experience really turned me off to doing earth caches(even though I really enjoy them), a photo from the cache location should be more than enough proof of an actual visit.

This face photo stuff needs to go!!!!!

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While I believe the cache "owner" went too far and should have reconsidered and allowed your log, I also believe that absent a box to find and a log to sign, there is nothing wrong with the photo requirement.

I have never heard of identity theft or anything else evil happening based on a photo (alone) posted on the internet.

The photo is the best proof of an actual EC visit. Just like what happens with puzzle caches, answers to required questions can and are passed on so the only thing left is the photo. I believe the photo requirement origin was with virtual caches which also requires proof of the visit.

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The logging requirement for any EarthCache is undertaking and answering the educational task. The current guidelines state :

 

"Logging of EarthCache sites must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve them measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording some data (such as time of a tidal bore), or searching and sending via e-mail to the developer, some earth-science fact that they find from signage that relates to the site. Developers should try to involve visitors in learning from the site rather than just logging a visit. Logs should show that the visitors have 'learnt' by visiting your EarthCache site. Taking a photograph alone, having visitors sending a word from a sign, or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines."

 

The photograph is a completely secondary task.

 

In my opinion no log to an EC should be deleted if a person has met all the educational logging requirements. Taking a photograph at the site is only one task and not considered in the guidelines to be educational. Therefore, deleting a log because of the lack of a photo, or the lack of the desired content in a photo is outside of the requirement for a logging task.

 

At the end of the day it is the discretion of the EC owner. However, I am very concerned and saddened to hear that EC logs are being deleted ONLY because of the photo requirement, even when all the other tasks are completed.

 

I feel that this is not in the spirit of EarthCaches and maybe the guidelines need to be changed to reflect the issue and all the EC not meeting the new guidelines archived.

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I require a picture because I sometimes doubt the validity of the logs. Were they really at the location? a picture is as good as a logbook IMHO.

 

Educational requirements are necessary, but i think visiting the location is mandatory - not just copying answers from others, or taking an educated guess at them.

 

If you don't have a camera - im pretty lenient, explain it to me before you log and i will likely let it slip.

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I require a picture because I sometimes doubt the validity of the logs. Were they really at the location? a picture is as good as a logbook IMHO.

 

Educational requirements are necessary, but i think visiting the location is mandatory - not just copying answers from others, or taking an educated guess at them.

 

If you don't have a camera - im pretty lenient, explain it to me before you log and i will likely let it slip.

 

I totally agree with your position. I too am lenient when the situation dictates it.

I also agree with Geoaware's point of view as to educational requirements (questions) being the most important factor after all the whole exercise is supposed to be educational. With that said, questions/ answers isn't the most positive proof of an actual visit.

Yes, I know there are experts that can "Photoshop" anything so let them have at it but, just like in puzzle caches, answers can and do get passed around. Heck, I have even seen final coordinates for multi-caches passed around! The very worst behavior out there are those cachers, if you can call them that, that don't "borrow" answers, they don't "borrow" final coordinates, they just simply log a cache without any of the above, including a visit to the cache hiding place!

I am afraid that without the photo, many of the numbers fanatics would log our ECs from their couches! That wouldn't be fair to the legit cache finders nor to the cache developers. I think that the 'requirement" of the photo deters those frauds who want only the number and not the experience!

Please be lenient and bend the rule when needed. Be considerate of those who don't want their kids faces on the internet. Use your best judgment and above all don't become a geopoliceman but don't totally abandon the photo! :(

Have at me folks but be gentle! :D

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

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For 'proof', a photo is a good idea. But, sometimes, my caching partner pushes the wrong button, and takes an AVI, instead of a .jpg. Fortunately, 'or photo of a GPS at the location' was also included. I should think that that would be enough proof. I have no qualms about showing my snout on the cache page, if you want to admire the smiling faces.

On the other fin, posting a 'find' on a cache before you provide all the necessary information is looking for trouble. Don't log the find until you can post the 'required' photo. Doing otherwise seems a very ornery frame of mind. Hope to look for some of Konnarock Kid & Marge's caches in Bristol on the "Vacation 2009 - The Cache Hos travel south to color in their Map Tour." Watch out for Bear, Dolphin and Circles in the near future. But we won't log them for nearly a week, until we get back home, and get our pictures uploaded.

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For 'proof', a photo is a good idea. But, sometimes, my caching partner pushes the wrong button, and takes an AVI, instead of a .jpg. Fortunately, 'or photo of a GPS at the location' was also included. I should think that that would be enough proof. I have no qualms about showing my snout on the cache page, if you want to admire the smiling faces.

On the other fin, posting a 'find' on a cache before you provide all the necessary information is looking for trouble. Don't log the find until you can post the 'required' photo. Doing otherwise seems a very ornery frame of mind. Hope to look for some of Konnarock Kid & Marge's caches in Bristol on the "Vacation 2009 - The Cache Hos travel south to color in their Map Tour." Watch out for Bear, Dolphin and Circles in the near future. But we won't log them for nearly a week, until we get back home, and get our pictures uploaded.

 

I have already made a copy of your photo from your profile page so I will carefully compare it to your uploaded photos on our cache pages! I would also like to have a copy of your finger prints. We try to match them up with prints left on the rocks. Marge goes out weekly and dusts the rocks for appropriate prints.

Just kidding of course.

We look forward to you visiting some of our ECs. If we can help, please let us know. :(

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Its just part of the game to me and I enjoy looking at the pics. You don't have to participate if you don't want to. I work with a lady who absolutely refuses to have her photo taken, we all think its quite silly for an adult to be that way but to each his/her own.

It really is quite a simple rule to follow. I'm new to all this and my first find was an earth cache where I had to answer ?s about the site and post a pic. I think its fun. Heck this is about using technology to "treasure hunt" I would think that everybody has some form of a digital camera and can get past not liking their photo taken (you really need to get over that nonsense).

Personally I hate the sound of my own voice.

Steve

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I agree that a full photo of a person's face isn't really necessary to prove you were there and I wouldn't delete a log just because I can't see the person's face. I do like to see the folks who visit, but only because I like the social aspect of caching. I also like to see photos of the site itself since that is the reason we go there.

 

I try to use the interactive activity to avoid having people try to 'cheat' the system -- It's just more fun anyway. If I do ask for a photo, it's of something they could see there or the results of their activity. I hope for unique photos from each person. Of course, one guy could go there and take 20 photos and pass them around to his friends for a claim, but that would be silly, wouldn't it? They might not be able to answer the questions I may ask and they wouldn't have had all that fun, either.

 

If I can't get around asking for the shot as backup proof, I usually ask for a close up of the gps anyway--that often has the date and coords, which is really a better indicator of a person being on site. I try to avoid that too, because it's harder than you'd think to get a good closeup of a reflective screen (for some people).

 

I really prefer the scenic shots myself. I like to use them when I teach geology to my classes, and I appreciate it when people do take more than the required mug shot (The kids can only stand so many times to try to see the cool volcano sill behind us geeks with a gps in their hands).

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A face shows proof. Do you know what everyone's hands and GPS's look like?

 

There is a award system in place called the EarthCache masters program. Lets not cheapen it with just regular log finds. The requirements to get a EarthCache is already tough enough as it is.

 

All it takes is one person to visit the site and get the answers and pass out to whom ever they want. That leads to cheating.

 

Posting a picture is proof of actually being there.

 

I agree that a full photo of a person's face isn't really necessary to prove you were there and I wouldn't delete a log just because I can't see the person's face. I do like to see the folks who visit, but only because I like the social aspect of caching. I also like to see photos of the site itself since that is the reason we go there.

 

I try to use the interactive activity to avoid having people try to 'cheat' the system -- It's just more fun anyway. If I do ask for a photo, it's of something they could see there or the results of their activity. I hope for unique photos from each person. Of course, one guy could go there and take 20 photos and pass them around to his friends for a claim, but that would be silly, wouldn't it? They might not be able to answer the questions I may ask and they wouldn't have had all that fun, either.

 

If I can't get around asking for the shot as backup proof, I usually ask for a close up of the gps anyway--that often has the date and coords, which is really a better indicator of a person being on site. I try to avoid that too, because it's harder than you'd think to get a good closeup of a reflective screen (for some people).

 

I really prefer the scenic shots myself. I like to use them when I teach geology to my classes, and I appreciate it when people do take more than the required mug shot (The kids can only stand so many times to try to see the cool volcano sill behind us geeks with a gps in their hands).

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Looks like geoaware are calling pictures a secondary task....aka an ALR.

 

Since there isn't a physical log there, I have no problem with the info. However, I figure pictures should be up to the cacher's decision. they can take plenty of pictures of the item the Earthcache is built on to prove they are there.

 

OR, what about a sign with the cacher's name in the picture? How the internet proves pictures aren't some fake picture of a russian mail order bride model or something like that.

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Do you have any earthcache finds or hides? :laughing:B)<_<

 

Looks like geoaware are calling pictures a secondary task....aka an ALR.

 

Since there isn't a physical log there, I have no problem with the info. However, I figure pictures should be up to the cacher's decision. they can take plenty of pictures of the item the Earthcache is built on to prove they are there.

 

OR, what about a sign with the cacher's name in the picture? How the internet proves pictures aren't some fake picture of a russian mail order bride model or something like that.

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Good question regarding hides and/or finds.

Doesn't Ashallond believe that our questions are "a secondary task....aka ALR." While not required, pictures are mentioned in the guidelines.

As Nancy Reagan once said, "just don't do it!" No one makes anyone go to a single EC! If you are forced to go to any EC, please immediately report it to Geoaware! The EC police will immediately be dispatched to free you of that terrible fate! The EC owner will be beaten to a pulp with his/her own camera .....if they have one!

:(

 

Do you have any earthcache finds or hides? :o:DB)

 

Looks like geoaware are calling pictures a secondary task....aka an ALR.

 

Since there isn't a physical log there, I have no problem with the info. However, I figure pictures should be up to the cacher's decision. they can take plenty of pictures of the item the Earthcache is built on to prove they are there.

 

OR, what about a sign with the cacher's name in the picture? How the internet proves pictures aren't some fake picture of a russian mail order bride model or something like that.

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Do I have a find/hide yet? No.

 

YET.

 

However, I'm just trying to get a CLARIFICATION since from what I read Geoaware the pictures are a secondary tasks. Noter I didn't say the questions were ALR's. I'd like to know exactly what is required of me before I go out so I don't get in a log/delete/log delete fight if I choose not to have my face in the picture. The topic of pictures in the guidelines at no point say "a picture must be taken with you face in it." Don't see it once on earthcache.org. If it's there, please show me where and I'll apologize.

 

I understand the questions are taking the place of the physical logs since there isn't one. I understand this is a learning experience. I'm a high school math/science teacher. I do plan to go to these. I am just saying that I think there should be an alternate way to show proof of visit. Mainly, paper with the person's name on it in the case that they don't want their face on a picture. Surely there's another way to accept proof of visit besides a smiling face.

 

Also, wishing....pot...kettle? You don't have any either.

 

Seriously, both of you sniped at me without actually ANSWERING the question. Good way to be helpful to a person who's only geocached for just over a month. :(

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Being a solo cacher makes it sort of a pain sometimes to get a photo of yourself (besides the fact you could lose your soul in the process! :( ). Back when I was still doing some Virtual Caches around here, I carried a Geocaching Business card with the phrase "Indotguy was here and found this Cache!". I would snap a photo of the virtual location with the card in the forground. It seemed a fairly effective way to prove I visited the site and also difficult to fake.

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The logging requirement for any EarthCache is undertaking and answering the educational task. The current guidelines state :

 

"Logging of EarthCache sites must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve them measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording some data (such as time of a tidal bore), or searching and sending via e-mail to the developer, some earth-science fact that they find from signage that relates to the site. Developers should try to involve visitors in learning from the site rather than just logging a visit. Logs should show that the visitors have 'learnt' by visiting your EarthCache site. Taking a photograph alone, having visitors sending a word from a sign, or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines."

 

The photograph is a completely secondary task.

 

In my opinion no log to an EC should be deleted if a person has met all the educational logging requirements. Taking a photograph at the site is only one task and not considered in the guidelines to be educational. Therefore, deleting a log because of the lack of a photo, or the lack of the desired content in a photo is outside of the requirement for a logging task.

 

At the end of the day it is the discretion of the EC owner. However, I am very concerned and saddened to hear that EC logs are being deleted ONLY because of the photo requirement, even when all the other tasks are completed.

 

I feel that this is not in the spirit of EarthCaches and maybe the guidelines need to be changed to reflect the issue and all the EC not meeting the new guidelines archived.

I own a virtual cache and have had it logged several times from folks in other countries who have not visited the location....a picture provides real proof that the person was actually there. Question answers can be passed along and sometimes Googled as well. I spend countless hours writing up my listings and having them remote logged is just a huge slap to the face. The requirement should be up to the cache owner.

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Being a solo cacher makes it sort of a pain sometimes to get a photo of yourself (besides the fact you could lose your soul in the process! :( ). Back when I was still doing some Virtual Caches around here, I carried a Geocaching Business card with the phrase "Indotguy was here and found this Cache!". I would snap a photo of the virtual location with the card in the forground. It seemed a fairly effective way to prove I visited the site and also difficult to fake.

 

I have not had any troubles taking pictures of myself by myself at the EarthCaches that I have done solo. I either strecth out my arm or set the time. Bingo, I have my picture taken at the site and ready to download.

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Do I have a find/hide yet? No.

 

YET.

 

However, I'm just trying to get a CLARIFICATION since from what I read Geoaware the pictures are a secondary tasks. Noter I didn't say the questions were ALR's. I'd like to know exactly what is required of me before I go out so I don't get in a log/delete/log delete fight if I choose not to have my face in the picture. The topic of pictures in the guidelines at no point say "a picture must be taken with you face in it." Don't see it once on earthcache.org. If it's there, please show me where and I'll apologize.

 

I understand the questions are taking the place of the physical logs since there isn't one. I understand this is a learning experience. I'm a high school math/science teacher. I do plan to go to these. I am just saying that I think there should be an alternate way to show proof of visit. Mainly, paper with the person's name on it in the case that they don't want their face on a picture. Surely there's another way to accept proof of visit besides a smiling face.

 

Also, wishing....pot...kettle? You don't have any either.

 

Seriously, both of you sniped at me without actually ANSWERING the question. Good way to be helpful to a person who's only geocached for just over a month. :(

 

The best way to do it is to read the EarthCache page that you plan on doing and see what the EarthCache owner is wanting you to do to get credit for the find. Everyone is different so just read the cache page. Problem solved.

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Do I have a find/hide yet? No.

 

YET.

 

However, I'm just trying to get a CLARIFICATION since from what I read Geoaware the pictures are a secondary tasks. Noter I didn't say the questions were ALR's. I'd like to know exactly what is required of me before I go out so I don't get in a log/delete/log delete fight if I choose not to have my face in the picture. The topic of pictures in the guidelines at no point say "a picture must be taken with you face in it." Don't see it once on earthcache.org. If it's there, please show me where and I'll apologize.

 

I understand the questions are taking the place of the physical logs since there isn't one. I understand this is a learning experience. I'm a high school math/science teacher. I do plan to go to these. I am just saying that I think there should be an alternate way to show proof of visit. Mainly, paper with the person's name on it in the case that they don't want their face on a picture. Surely there's another way to accept proof of visit besides a smiling face.

 

Also, wishing....pot...kettle? You don't have any either.

 

Seriously, both of you sniped at me without actually ANSWERING the question. Good way to be helpful to a person who's only geocached for just over a month. :(

 

The best way to do it is to read the EarthCache page that you plan on doing and see what the EarthCache owner is wanting you to do to get credit for the find. Everyone is different so just read the cache page. Problem solved.

 

Amen to that!

Borrowing a qoute from Geoaware:

"At the end of the day it is the discretion of the EC owner. However, I am very concerned and saddened to hear that EC logs are being deleted ONLY because of the photo requirement, even when all the other tasks are completed.

 

I feel that this is not in the spirit of EarthCaches and maybe the guidelines need to be changed to reflect the issue and all the EC not meeting the new guidelines archived."

 

If you want to destroy EarthCaching then change the guidelines and forbid the photo.

Once again, as in puzzle caches and multi caches, the answers will get passed around and no educational experience will be had! You will be left with the numbers crowd logging ECs from their arm chair. I am really lenient regarding the photo but the fact that it is required doesn't detract from the education aspects of finding an EC but it sure is a deterrent to fake logs!

In the final analysis, isn't the most important thing the actual visit to an EC and the appreciation of what Mother Nature has to offer or are we trying to turn everyone into a mini geologist? Yes to education but another big yes to appreciation!

As you said, "it is discretion of the EC owner", and it is best left that way.

 

EDIT: I just finished a informal survey (read their cache pages) of geocachers who have developed ECs within 250 miles of our home corrdinates and the number of defferent EC developers is well over 50 and guess what? ALL have some sort of photo requirement or another!

 

SECOND EDIT: I also looked at platinum geocachers who have posted to the EarthCache forum. Of the number of 25 counted, 22 required a photo for 88 % of the top ECs developers requiring some sort of photo. I will be the first to admit that my study methods are informal and all I did was to go to the profile page and check the EC developers first EC that apeared on his/her list of developed ECs.

 

From the above counts, it doesn't mean that those who DO NOT require photos are wrong, far from it , but it doesn't mean that the 88 % who are requiring photos are doing something wrong. Please leave it at the "discretion of the EC owner"!

While I feel that the case has been made, there is no reason why a more 'formal' survey cannot be made on this forum.

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

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I have no problem with photo requirements, I do have issue with requiring face photos. I love looking at all the photos on cache pages, but earth caches most photos are exactly the same. I would be nice if some of you would just ask people to try and get a unique photo at your earth caches that still is obviously at the location.

 

The only issue with just requiring a photo at the EC location would be people using old vacation or internet photos. If they do use old photos, so what? They have obviously already visited the location.

 

Is people cheating at multi, mystery, earth caches a real issue? I mean seriously the numbers you get making finds don't count for anything so the only ones they are cheating is themselves. If I knew someone cheated on an earth cache by using an internet photo & websites to find all the information I really wouldn't care. Remember geocaching is just a game & earth caches are meant to be educational so technically they have got something out of "doing" the cache.

 

I love the places Earth caching takes me but shouldn't have to worry about some grumpy old cache owners perception of what a correct photo looks like.

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*sigh*

 

Konnarock Kid & Marge, You're missing the point.

 

Some people don't want their face in the picture. They are asking if there is an acceptable alternate to a face in the picture. Not an alternate to the picture completely. Like a paper with a name, or a certain thing as requested by the cache owner. I don't know what it is, but I mean, some people might have a valid reason like a facial deformity or have a job that they can't have their face be public (undercover agents, etc.) that they don't want to have their faces in the picture, but are still willing to prove in fact they were there.

 

This isn't about "destroying Earthcaches"...it's about those who WANT to participate in the Earthcache program, but for whatever reason don't want their face in the picture on the internet, and have hit a brick wall from some cache owners that are adamant about a face in the picture.

 

But as geoaware has said....it's to the owner's discretion...just some people are asking if there isn't another way.

 

Anyway, whatever. I'm done in this thread. I don't know how else to make this point that people consistently gloss over.

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*sigh*

 

Konnarock Kid & Marge, You're missing the point.

 

Some people don't want their face in the picture. They are asking if there is an acceptable alternate to a face in the picture. Not an alternate to the picture completely. Like a paper with a name, or a certain thing as requested by the cache owner. I don't know what it is, but I mean, some people might have a valid reason like a facial deformity or have a job that they can't have their face be public (undercover agents, etc.) that they don't want to have their faces in the picture, but are still willing to prove in fact they were there.

 

This isn't about "destroying Earthcaches"...it's about those who WANT to participate in the Earthcache program, but for whatever reason don't want their face in the picture on the internet, and have hit a brick wall from some cache owners that are adamant about a face in the picture.

 

But as geoaware has said....it's to the owner's discretion...just some people are asking if there isn't another way.

 

Anyway, whatever. I'm done in this thread. I don't know how else to make this point that people consistently gloss over.

 

If I am to be quoted please do it correctly!

This is a quote from my point: "If you want to destroy EarthCaching then change the guidelines and forbid the photo."

Is there anything in that quote regarding, ""destroying Earthcaches".... I don't think so! Distroying EarthCaching is not the same as ""destroying Earthcaches"...!!!!

I have never deleted a log when an exemption is requested. I haven't had a lot of CIA agent requests nor any from those who suffer from facial deformity but you know what, I would grant their requests.

This "They are asking" group of people whom you refer to only have to ask and I am quite sure most if not all EC owners would grant an exception. :laughing:

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

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*sigh*

 

Konnarock Kid & Marge, You're missing the point.

 

Some people don't want their face in the picture. They are asking if there is an acceptable alternate to a face in the picture. Not an alternate to the picture completely. Like a paper with a name, or a certain thing as requested by the cache owner. I don't know what it is, but I mean, some people might have a valid reason like a facial deformity or have a job that they can't have their face be public (undercover agents, etc.) that they don't want to have their faces in the picture, but are still willing to prove in fact they were there.

 

This isn't about "destroying Earthcaches"...it's about those who WANT to participate in the Earthcache program, but for whatever reason don't want their face in the picture on the internet, and have hit a brick wall from some cache owners that are adamant about a face in the picture.

 

But as geoaware has said....it's to the owner's discretion...just some people are asking if there isn't another way.

 

Anyway, whatever. I'm done in this thread. I don't know how else to make this point that people consistently gloss over.

 

Best way to fix the this is just not do the EarthCache. Then no ones feelings get hurt.

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