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Petitioning Groundspeak for more Bookmarks

Hoppingcrow

By Hoppingcrow
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Hoppingcrow

+Hoppingcrow

Posted
Posted

At Groundspeak's suggestion, I am posting this on behalf of several geocaching friends to lobby for more bookmarks. Twenty simply is not enough, especially since the Ignore List takes up one of the count if you've ever used it and it cannot be archived.

 

The problem is this: many of us cache in widely separated areas and would like to keep a bookmark for each locale, developing it over a period of time. For me personally, this list would ideally include at least fifteen spot locations from Lopez Island in the San Juans to Portland, Oregon. We geocachers also like to keep bookmarks of our milestones, FTFs and caches we have particularly enjoyed.

 

However, nowadays there are so many "challenge" caches being developed, each requiring a bookmark of its own to be maintained for three to six months, that many cachers are finding out that their bookmarks are largely consumed by "challenges," leaving no room for other more individually useful bookmarks.

 

Ten more would be nice. Fifty would be what I'd like to see, ideally. Many cachers don't use them at all, so perhaps it wouldn't be a burden on the servers. Even five more would be beneficial.

 

Please share your thoughts!

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted

I also cache in widely separated areas. Instead of bookmarks for these I use GSAK and separate databases. And for the ignores I'm now using the GSAK delete list functionality. I guess this uses up a slot in the PQ, but my PQ's aren't bumping into walls so that is not a problem. But I can see the challenge issue does eat up bookmark lists, so another 10 or so would be nice, especially if one uses bookmark lists for caching in different areas.

 

Jim

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frisbee'r

+frisbee'r

Posted
Posted

I agree with Hoppingcrow. The twenty bookmark limit reminds me of the days when email service providers would allow only 5-10 megs of storage for a username. Reality has set in as most now average about 500 megs or unlimited to accommodate the proliferation of attachments consisting of hi-res JPG and movie files for example. I've cleaned up nearly all caches within a 50 mile radius of Olympia, Wa. It's not good enough to run PQs because I research areas going out two or more hours picking specific caches and placing notes like puzzle solutions in the bookmark. I've had to resort to word processing files with lists of links and relevant information.

 

The reference to challenge caches really hits home. There are many in the PNW. Most creators of a challenge require keeping a bookmark at least three months. However, these bookmarks are beneficial to new cachers down the road as they provide a candidate cache list and are templates of how to properly setup the challenge bookmark.

 

The limitation of 20 is an allocation that cannot meet the needs of today's evolving active cacher. It needs to be increased in 2009. My vote is to see it doubled.

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Cache O'Plenty

+Cache O'Plenty

Posted
Posted

I'll throw in my vote on the side of increasing the allocation. I only use 8 of my allocation but have recently started using them more. Primary use is a Favorites list, a DNF list, the ignore list (boy has this grown lately!), and then several for Special Series I want to do. Some series are put together by several owners so when I put together a full list, I share it publicly so other cachers won't have to do it. They can just order a PQ for that series and be ready to go.

 

So, my vote is YES.

 

P.S. May I also put forth my pet suggestion that the Bookmark List also show the found status of each cache in the list. Would go a long way in helping identify those caches in a challenge series that haven't yet been found.

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Singletree Expedition

+Singletree Expedition

Posted
Posted

P.S. May I also put forth my pet suggestion that the Bookmark List also show the found status of each cache in the list. Would go a long way in helping identify those caches in a challenge series that haven't yet been found.

I second that. A 'found it' check on the bookmarked items would be so very useful.

 

can we have some idea of how bandwidth-intensive these things are?

 

it certainly sounds like a reasonable request, if there's not a significant cost.

We're currently aloud to upload infinitely many photos. Surely bookmarks would be less resource intensive than that... right guys?

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted
So why the discussion? Can't GS add more on?

Probably just gauging interest.

 

However, nowadays there are so many "challenge" caches being developed, each requiring a bookmark of its own to be maintained for three to six months, that many cachers are finding out that their bookmarks are largely consumed by "challenges," leaving no room for other more individually useful bookmarks.

I think that is a great point.
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Goldfinch593

+Goldfinch593

Posted
Posted

Although I have not created many bookmarks, I certainly use and enjoy others. I appreciate bookmarks that have been created for "series" and "challenges" particularly when I'm working my way through one. And I find bookmarks for things like oldest caches in the state, winter-friendly caches and solve-at-your-desk puzzle caches both interesting and useful. Then there are the just-for-fun bookmarks like "When I Win the Lotto..." and one of my favorites... Hoppingcrow's "Shiny Things!" :lol:

 

I can definitely see the need for increasing the number of bookmarks per cacher!

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Hoppingcrow

+Hoppingcrow

Posted
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Posted

Well, from what I'm seeing here so far, people are largely in favor of adding more bookmarks even when they don't use them themselves. You never can tell...you might want to use them some day!

 

I'll admit I haven't tried using GSAK, but I don't think it would be as effective as bookmarking for the way I cache. For example, I keep bookmarks for caches along two widely separated bike trails I enjoy riding. I also have notifications set up for those areas. When a new cache is published, I check to see if it's on the trail, then put it into the appropriate bookmark list. When the list has enough caches on it to make a trip worthwhile, I do a PQ from the bookmark and only then does it go into GSAK. This way, I am able to weed out the caches which are more than half a mile from the bike trail and too far out of my way when I'm riding. Sometimes it takes weeks or even months (winter is slow) to accumulate enough caches for a ride.

 

(And I like to bookmark caches I've particularly enjoyed. Hiya, Finchy! :lol: )

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The Leprechauns

+The Leprechauns

Posted
Posted

As a power user of bookmarks, including as the owner and seeker of challenge caches, it's hard to argue with having more of a good thing. If I had more lists to work with, I'd create more helpful guides that might benefit people looking for caches that logically belong together, like "All caches in cache dense park" or "History-related caches in Southwest PA." As it is, I hoard nearly all my lists for more selfish purposes.

 

Remember when we were limited to 20 saved pocket queries? It doubled to 40 based on threads very similar to this one. Now that bookmark lists are maturing, demand is exceeding supply once again. (Psssst.... 50 saved queries would be nice....)

 

Thanks Nate for passing this along for consideration.

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tozainamboku

+tozainamboku

Posted
Posted (edited)

More bookmark lists by themselves is not anything that would get me excited. If some of the features that fizzymagic has been asking for in order to manage bookmark lists (copy lists, merge lists, ability to move caches from one list to another, ability to delete a list without first having to delete all the cache from it) then more bookmark lists would be more useful.

 

It is hard to argue though that some people are keeping track of multiple challenge caches and if they use bookmark lists for this they could easily run out with only 20 lists. I would think that private bookmark lists are not always the best way to keep track of challenges. For DeLorme challenges, county challenges, and the like these are probably the best as the list can be shared with the challenge owner for confirmation of the challenge. For challenges where the challenge owner has created a list of caches to do, it would probably be better to create a PQ based on a public bookmark list created by the cache owner and use that. The preview PQ will show you which caches you've already found.

Edited by tozainamboku
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beejay&esskay

+beejay&esskay

Posted
Posted

 

Remember when we were limited to 20 saved pocket queries? It doubled to 40 based on threads very similar to this one. Now that bookmark lists are maturing, demand is exceeding supply once again. (Psssst.... 50 saved queries would be nice....)

 

Thanks Nate for passing this along for consideration.

 

40 to 50? C'mon, think big. Why not 100? All the old archived ones are still on the server, taking up space. The only difference is that we would be able to access them and use them.

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paleolith

+paleolith

Posted
Posted
Vague hint of geocide. :D

Death of the net. Film at 11.

 

As someone in the field, I can make an estimate of the overhead. Now, people archive bookmark lists to make room for others. The use of the term "archive" implies that (like caches) they are not deleted from the database. So increasing the limit would have a minimal effect on storage costs.

 

There's some cost in creating and serving the web page with the bookmark links. Currently there are six links for each bookmark list, and all the lists are presented on a single page rather than multiple pages. I don't think the GS developers are concerned about the cost of a few more lines. Serving that page would also require a few more database retrieves. All this looks pretty minor in the overall gc.com interface, though if I were doing the job, I'd want to estimate the actual overhead.

 

Personally I'd say make the number unlimited, or at least so large (thousands) that anyone hitting the limit is either testing the system or using it in a manner radically different from what anyone here has proposed. What's the cost of making it unlimited? Well, there's some development cost, because they'd need to make the list of bookmark lists pageable, just as the individual lists are pageable. But the increase in the *average* number of lists per user is going to be miniscule, so the other costs will be minimal. People aren't going to create hundreds of bookmark lists just because they can, because the result would be unmanageable.

 

There might even be some small savings in not having to respond to questions about the limit. Don't laugh, support costs are serious.

 

So I see a small effort to estimate the effects, a trivial effort to increase the number to, say, 40 or 100, and a larger but still small effort to make the maximum very large or unlimited. The cost of serving the additional lists would probably be very small, but would need to be considered. And some monitoring might be needed, due to the law of unintended effects.

 

Geez, I do this stuff all day, I need to stop.

 

Edward

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Singletree Expedition

+Singletree Expedition

Posted
Posted

P.S. May I also put forth my pet suggestion that the Bookmark List also show the found status of each cache in the list. Would go a long way in helping identify those caches in a challenge series that haven't yet been found.

...create a PQ based on a public bookmark list created by the cache owner and use that. The preview PQ will show you which caches you've already found.

Nice. Thanks for posting.

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Cache O'Plenty

+Cache O'Plenty

Posted
Posted (edited)

P.S. May I also put forth my pet suggestion that the Bookmark List also show the found status of each cache in the list. Would go a long way in helping identify those caches in a challenge series that haven't yet been found.

...create a PQ based on a public bookmark list created by the cache owner and use that. The preview PQ will show you which caches you've already found.

Nice. Thanks for posting.

Yes, A PQ created from a Bookmark List will accomplish my suggestion but it does require a few extra steps and uses up one more of your PQ allocation (the 40 PQs, not the daily quota). It's the extra steps I'm trying to avoid. And Challenge Lists are only one use of Bookmark Lists. There are many more series that don't have a Bookmark list created by the owner that we create on our own.

Edited by Cache O'Plenty
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Parabola

+Parabola

Posted
Posted

I can't see why a few more bookmarks would hurt anything. I'll write it up so we can have it in the next release (Hopefully. Almost certainly).

Thanks OpinioNate!!!

 

I didn't see this to chime in, and I only am using four bookmark's at the moment, but I'm just starting to use the bookmark feature and am finding the perk's in using them. I'm wishing I would have started using them sooner.

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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
If some of the features that fizzymagic has been asking for in order to manage bookmark lists (copy lists, merge lists, ability to move caches from one list to another, ability to delete a list without first having to delete all the cache from it) then more bookmark lists would be more useful.
I've wanted these same features as well. :D
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