When to log a Needs Archived?

1.3k · February 25, 2009

There's a multicache in the area; I'm sure I had the right location for the final cache; I think it's gone. Also, two other people have looked and couldn't find it either, one before me the other after me.

Time to log a Needs Archived?

18.9k · February 25, 2009

Nope

Needs archived is a log intended to highlight a possible guidelines violation to a reviewer. If you indeed see one - point it out.

If you didn't find it - log a DNF. If you have never seen it before then you are in no position to declare it missing.

Edited February 25, 2009 by StarBrand

9.3k · February 25, 2009

When to log a Needs Archived?

My general, (and occasionally flexible), rule of thumb is, if a cache is missing or in serious disrepair, and the owner is inactive, log an SBA.

The scenario you described rates at best a DNF. Had you found it before, and knew where it was, it would rate a "Needs Maintenance".

Had you found it before, and the owner last logged into the site in Jan '02, that would rate an SBA.

Just my $0.02 :lol:

7.2k · February 25, 2009

There's a multicache in the area; I'm sure I had the right location for the final cache; I think it's gone. Also, two other people have looked and couldn't find it either, one before me the other after me.

Time to log a Needs Archived?

Not based on the information given.

38.2k · February 25, 2009

It depends. If it's an easy cache (2 stars or fewer) and there is a sudden string of DNFs after nothing but Found Its, I'd say log a needs maintenance first. Then if no response after a month or two a needs archived.

The NA (a.k.a SBA) isn't just to point out guideline violations, it's to point out caches that need to be archived. Caches that are likely missing and not being maintained by the owner need to be archived.

18.9k · February 25, 2009

...

The NA (a.k.a SBA) isn't just to point out guideline violations, it's to point out caches that need to be archived. Caches that are likely missing and not being maintained by the owner need to be archived.

But those are guideline violations.....

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem.

February 25, 2009

If I felt fairly certain it's missing I'd do a Needs Maintenance. I did that on one I DNF'ed a few weeks ago that included what amounted to a give-away hint. "On a shelf in a trunk 3 feet off the ground." There was one very prominent trunk that fit that exact description with no cache on it. Took a picture of the spot which I sent to the CO upon request, who then disabled the cache. I wasn't 100% certain it was missing, but more than my typical DNF. Without a give-away hint I'd probably just do a DNF, maybe noting in the DNF it might be time to check on the cache.

I've had others I suspected were missing only to be found by the next seeker. :lol:

1.3k · February 25, 2009

I was really sure it was missing. I did log a DNF. I triple checked my coordinance and going by the hint, I was positive I was in the right place. There was a DNF before mine. It's not like I want to log a needs to be archived every time I have a DNF; I was just very sure this one was missing this time.

anyway...

The cache has been temporarily disabled today.

Thank you all for the help

7.7k · February 25, 2009

I was really sure it was missing. I did log a DNF. I triple checked my coordinance and going by the hint, I was positive I was in the right place. There was a DNF before mine. It's not like I want to log a needs to be archived every time I have a DNF; I was just very sure this one was missing this time.

What you described would, to me, warrant a "needs maintenance" instead of SBA. I've only logged the dreaded SBA once, when I was hunting for a cache (found it, actually) and was confronted by an unhappy property owner who said it was on private property without permission.

Can someone explain what happens in the back end when a NM or SBA is logged? Does it make it to a reviewer's list or something? What about the CO - do they get periodic reminders for outstanding NM or SBAs?

8.3k · February 25, 2009

I was really sure it was missing. I did log a DNF. I triple checked my coordinance and going by the hint, I was positive I was in the right place. There was a DNF before mine. It's not like I want to log a needs to be archived every time I have a DNF; I was just very sure this one was missing this time.

What you described would, to me, warrant a "needs maintenance" instead of SBA. I've only logged the dreaded SBA once, when I was hunting for a cache (found it, actually) and was confronted by an unhappy property owner who said it was on private property without permission.

Can someone explain what happens in the back end when a NM or SBA is logged? Does it make it to a reviewer's list or something? What about the CO - do they get periodic reminders for outstanding NM or SBAs?

The CO gets both the NM and SBA emails of the log entry. If you make a SBA log the reviewer also gets an email. It does not matter that the CO deletes the SBA log, the reviewer is still notified. Outside of the initial email there is no spam generator sending out emails. The SBA probably will result is some sort of action by the reviewer.

Jim

February 25, 2009

I've hit the NA button a few times - but ONLY after careful consideration.

Cache is DNF many times, Needs Maintenance has been posted for quite some time and owner hasn't logged on in an eternity (ie 6 months or more) and the cache is still "active" and people are wasting their time if they don't read the logs before they hunt.

Cache is in sorry shape, Needs Maintenance has been posted for significant length of time and owner hasn't logged on in an eternity... although in this area a cache is more likely to be repaired by another local who reads the logs - we just repaired one that's years old, owner hasn't been on in an eternity but it's a good cache so we fixed it (reckon I should ask to adopt it...)

Cache has been disabled for an eternity... owner long gone and keeps coming up in a search... it can free up the area for another cacher to place a cache.

Our local reviewers are great, and they appreciate an *appropriate* NA notice in these cases - they can't keep their eyes on everything and as long as the person requesting the archive has some common sense, it's a proper use of the feature, in my opinion.

Usually when one of these scenarios occurs and a NA is posted, the reviewer will post a note to the cache requesting that they either reactivate/repair the cache within 30 days, or "confirm" the archive. They also give an option that the cache can be "unarchived" but will still need to follow current guidelines, etc. and will be subject to a new review - but nobody just archives caches arbitrarily without giving the owner a good chance to decide for themselves what they want to do.

If there's no response to that, then the cache is archived.

If I see a reviewer note that's 2 or 3 months old and the cache still hasn't been reactivated or archived, I'll send another NA and that usually prompts the reviewer to archive it, since he's already given the "30-day" notice and nothing has happened. And no, I don't do it on the 31st day... again if it's 2 or 3 months since the 30-day, I'll send the reviewer a NA to remind him :lol:

Again - this is something to be done as a "last resort", not every time a cache gets a few DNFs or the owner hasn't logged in for a few weeks... I use 6 months or more as a guideline (more often it's over a year since the owner has logged in before I'll hit that button) - and if it's a repair issue and the cache is close to me and I can get to it, I don't mind putting a dry log or whatever .. that's just good cachemanship and courtesy, IMO.

It all comes down to common sense as well as common courtesy.

Jenn

10.1k · February 25, 2009

Okay. So we have this local cache. Placed last June by someone from New Mexico spending the summer locally. One find the day after it was published. 2/5 Probably on private property. It's just off the side of the road, in the woods. 1 find. 18 logged DNFs. 2 Needs Maintenance. Cache owner won't be back until June. Note from owner:

from what ive been told the cache probably been chucked from a previous cacher who didnt know it was the cache so im not completely sure if its not there but please bear with me and in the summer ill have it re done and ill make sure that if u find it youll tell its the cache thanks again for your cooperation,

So, whatcha think? SBA?

February 25, 2009

Should be disabled if he intends to replace it. If the owner posted that note, he/she should temporarily disable the listing to prevent more people from wasting their time.

Better still, before he left he should have arranged to have a local keep up with it - but hey, hindsight is 20/20.

I'd put it on my ignore list from the sound of things - but I'm kinda picky about stuff like that :lol:

Jenn

18.9k · February 25, 2009

...

So, whatcha think? SBA?

Certainly!

9.3k · February 26, 2009

...

So, whatcha think? SBA?

Certainly!

Agreed. The cache owner clearly ignored the guidelines by creating a vacation cache without arranging for "Aunt Edna" to take care of it.

February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for? There`s an MIA cache with an MIA owner in a city I`m planning to go caching in sometime in the future. It hasn`t been found in a year or two and there`s a months-old reviewer note saying "hey, is this one still here?" and no follow up after that. I don`t want to go out of my way to look for a cache that is clearly no longer there, but I also don`t want to look like the armchair cache police by posting an SBA without ever having been there. What would you all do, SBA or leave it alone?

7.7k · February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

I wouldn't, and for that cache you mentioned, it seems that the reviewer is already aware of it, so it should not be necessary. I wouldn't bother going out of my way to search for it either, unless I'm there for some other reason.

February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

I wouldn't, and for that cache you mentioned, it seems that the reviewer is already aware of it, so it should not be necessary. I wouldn't bother going out of my way to search for it either, unless I'm there for some other reason.

I`m not sure that the reviewer is aware of it, though. Now that I take another look at the cache page, I see that the reviewer note was posted in October of 2007; the last find was January 2006. There`s no local reviewer in this area - caches here are approved by the reviewers who cover the world at large, so it seems unreasonable to expect them to keep track of this cache when they`ve got the whole world to pay attention to.

7.7k · February 26, 2009

I`m not sure that the reviewer is aware of it, though. Now that I take another look at the cache page, I see that the reviewer note was posted in October of 2007; the last find was January 2006. There`s no local reviewer in this area - caches here are approved by the reviewers who cover the world at large, so it seems unreasonable to expect them to keep track of this cache when they`ve got the whole world to pay attention to.

Hmm, I'll plead inexperience in not answering this one then. I personally still wouldn't file a SBA (esp. since there's now 5000 miles of ocean between it and me), but I don't know if you should. Maybe e-mail the reviewer?

9.3k · February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

I wouldn't. While it's true that you can extrapolate a lot of theories based upon reading the past logs, you can't really know what the situation is until you are on scene. If the cache in question is in an interesting place, I would hunt for it, and post my DNF, describing exactly what I found, or didn't find. With an inactive owner not responding to Needs Maintenance notes, I would then submit an SBA. If the cache is just a shrub hunt or a parking lot hide, I would pass on looking for it, but I might send a note to the reviewer who posted their question, letting them know that nothing has happened since they posted, and trust their judgement.

February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

"I wouldn't. While it's true that you can extrapolate a lot of theories based upon reading the past logs, you can't really know what the situation is until you are on scene. ..."

Boy ain't that da truth! Earlier this month I's visiting my old home town, and me & my sis went cachin'. There's a cache just off I-95 not far from her house that she lamented being archived before she found it - she'd DNF'd it a couple of times. It's been very popular over the years, a mid-to-hard find in my estimation....it's had bunches of DNFs & even problems from an unauthorized & blatantly easy 'drop-cache' film can replacement that caused considerable confusion & false finds for a spell.

She knows I'd found it previously - it involves a sign near a huge church - & as we passed she pulled into the church parking lot, parked near the sign, & asked me to show her where it had been hidden. I first showed her where we'd found the 'drop-cache' since it was a few steps nearer, then reached 'under & up' & wouldn'cha know it, plucked out the "missing" cache.

She's a noob to the game....nonetheless I was more'n a bit surprised at her reaction - she was furious! Not so much from missing a chance at a 'score', but more from, as she put it, "a bunch of busybodies sticking their noses in & causing a perfectly good cache to be removed". (She was tickled pink at the cleverness of the hide.) I should add here that we know the CO, who's temporarily deployed to Iraq. Anyway, she started asking about maybe adopting it until he (CO) returns & I advised her it'd take an act of Congress. BUT, since it's archived that means it's up for grabs, & as I told her...."so why don't you just re-publish it yourself for your first hide? After all, you have a perfectly good cache container right there in your hand!" More'n one way to skin a cat! We should have an excellent cache back in action any day now. Unfortunately, the history is lost forever.

~*

10.1k · February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

I wouldn't, and for that cache you mentioned, it seems that the reviewer is already aware of it, so it should not be necessary. I wouldn't bother going out of my way to search for it either, unless I'm there for some other reason.

I`m not sure that the reviewer is aware of it, though. Now that I take another look at the cache page, I see that the reviewer note was posted in October of 2007; the last find was January 2006. There`s no local reviewer in this area - caches here are approved by the reviewers who cover the world at large, so it seems unreasonable to expect them to keep track of this cache when they`ve got the whole world to pay attention to.

You could point out the problems to a reviewer. Since it's been over a year, with no maintenance, the reviewer might choose to archive it.

8.3k · February 26, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

"I wouldn't. While it's true that you can extrapolate a lot of theories based upon reading the past logs, you can't really know what the situation is until you are on scene. ..."

Boy ain't that da truth! Earlier this month I's visiting my old home town, and me & my sis went cachin'. There's a cache just off I-95 not far from her house that she lamented being archived before she found it - she'd DNF'd it a couple of times. It's been very popular over the years, a mid-to-hard find in my estimation....it's had bunches of DNFs & even problems from an unauthorized & blatantly easy 'drop-cache' film can replacement that caused considerable confusion & false finds for a spell.

She knows I'd found it previously - it involves a sign near a huge church - & as we passed she pulled into the church parking lot, parked near the sign, & asked me to show her where it had been hidden. I first showed her where we'd found the 'drop-cache' since it was a few steps nearer, then reached 'under & up' & wouldn'cha know it, plucked out the "missing" cache.

She's a noob to the game....nonetheless I was more'n a bit surprised at her reaction - she was furious! Not so much from missing a chance at a 'score', but more from, as she put it, "a bunch of busybodies sticking their noses in & causing a perfectly good cache to be removed". (She was tickled pink at the cleverness of the hide.) I should add here that we know the CO, who's temporarily deployed to Iraq. Anyway, she started asking about maybe adopting it until he (CO) returns & I advised her it'd take an act of Congress. BUT, since it's archived that means it's up for grabs, & as I told her...."so why don't you just re-publish it yourself for your first hide? After all, you have a perfectly good cache container right there in your hand!" More'n one way to skin a cat! We should have an excellent cache back in action any day now. Unfortunately, the history is lost forever.

~*

Add a link back to the old listing, history is still there.

Jim

February 27, 2009

Had a local new cacher here that posted "Needs Maintenance" logs on caches he couldn't find. Did it to 3 of mine, I knew they were ok because they were found shortly after his log. I politely advised that a DNF log would be more appropriate since that didn't require any action on my part immediately. I am a reasonably responsible cacher and 2 or 3 DNF"s will get me to the cache quickly to check. Anyway the cacher in question seems to have quit the business, hope it wasn't anything I said.

8.3k · February 27, 2009

Had a local new cacher here that posted "Needs Maintenance" logs on caches he couldn't find. Did it to 3 of mine, I knew they were ok because they were found shortly after his log. I politely advised that a DNF log would be more appropriate since that didn't require any action on my part immediately. I am a reasonably responsible cacher and 2 or 3 DNF"s will get me to the cache quickly to check. Anyway the cacher in question seems to have quit the business, hope it wasn't anything I said.

I don't think so, he just probably thinks all the caches are missing and needs maintenance

Jim

February 28, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

I have done so twice. However, the situations were entirely different from what is being discussed here. Both were new placements on NPS land by cachers who obviously didn't understand the restrictions. And a good hike into NPS land, not just at the fence, nothing ambiguous. The reviewer seems to have agreed, as both were archived within an hour with no warning to the CO. And neither CO posted any response. I have both in my GPS to search and remove sometime when I'm nearby.

Edward

5.8k · February 28, 2009

Caches that are likely missing and not being maintained by the owner...

Wouldn't that be a Guidelines Violation??

February 28, 2009

Do you folks post SBAs for caches you haven`t personally searched for?

"I wouldn't. While it's true that you can extrapolate a lot of theories based upon reading the past logs, you can't really know what the situation is until you are on scene. ..."

Boy ain't that da truth! Earlier this month I's visiting my old home town, and me & my sis went cachin'. There's a cache just off I-95 not far from her house that she lamented being archived before she found it - she'd DNF'd it a couple of times. It's been very popular over the years, a mid-to-hard find in my estimation....it's had bunches of DNFs & even problems from an unauthorized & blatantly easy 'drop-cache' film can replacement that caused considerable confusion & false finds for a spell.

She knows I'd found it previously - it involves a sign near a huge church - & as we passed she pulled into the church parking lot, parked near the sign, & asked me to show her where it had been hidden. I first showed her where we'd found the 'drop-cache' since it was a few steps nearer, then reached 'under & up' & wouldn'cha know it, plucked out the "missing" cache.

She's a noob to the game....nonetheless I was more'n a bit surprised at her reaction - she was furious! Not so much from missing a chance at a 'score', but more from, as she put it, "a bunch of busybodies sticking their noses in & causing a perfectly good cache to be removed". (She was tickled pink at the cleverness of the hide.) I should add here that we know the CO, who's temporarily deployed to Iraq. Anyway, she started asking about maybe adopting it until he (CO) returns & I advised her it'd take an act of Congress. BUT, since it's archived that means it's up for grabs, & as I told her...."so why don't you just re-publish it yourself for your first hide? After all, you have a perfectly good cache container right there in your hand!" More'n one way to skin a cat! We should have an excellent cache back in action any day now. Unfortunately, the history is lost forever.

~*

You can look through your finds and send her the link to the page, she can still log it. If the cache owner is still active they can get it unarchived. If not do what I did.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...44-f0bf891a1fbf

7.2k · February 28, 2009

What would you all do, SBA or leave it alone?

Me, if it looked like a cache I'd enjoy I'd go and try to find it. I'd even probably look longer and more thorough than normal.

If I find it it'd be a greater sense of accomplishment on confirming a cache is there.

If I didn't find it I'd feel better logging an SBA because I'm more confident I'm not causing an orphaned cache and thus geotrash.

When to log a Needs Archived?

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