Attribute idea: 'Vital Information on Cache Page'

[+Urubu]

Many people search from PQs without ever looking at cache listings. That creates at least two kinds of problems:

1. Sometimes seekers can't find the cache with only the PQ information. That's true for most puzzles, of course. But there are also many traditional caches with vital extra information in the Short or Long descriptions. Occasionally after a long hunt for an unfamiliar cache that I loaded from a PQ, I learn that there was something on the cache page that I really needed to know.
   
2. Sometimes hiders want to add important information for which there isn't a standard attribute. For example, 'Do not enter from Hwy 18. You must use the park entrance,' or 'The property owner gave permission to hunt this only 8am-5pm', or 'After publication, I moved the cache to a safer spot 100' NNE of the posted coordinates', or 'Beware of the [insert special danger here...]'.
   

This isn't a fully worked-out idea, but I wonder if we could have an attribute for "Vital Information on Cache Page", maybe with an exclamation point as the icon. That would allow filtering and flagging of these kinds of caches, and maybe increase the fun and safety of caching in general.

[+DavidMac]

I'm not trying to flame here, but if someone has trouble with a cache because they neglected to read the description, I'd say they brought it upon themselves.

 

I'd put this attribute on ALL of my caches, because I think it's important to always take a look at the description first. Often when I haven't done so, I later wished that I had.

Edited February 23, 2009 by DavidMac

[+Tequila]

Groundspeak has been pretty clear on this. They want you to read the cache listing. That is why notifies don't contain coordinates.

 

Failing to read the cache listing is not a good idea.

[+Urubu]

I'm not trying to flame here, but if someone has trouble with a cache because they neglected to read the description, I'd say they brought it upon themselves.

 

I'd put this attribute on ALL of my caches, because I think it's important to always take a look at the description first. Often when I haven't done so, I later wished that I had.

 

I know what you mean, but it's just a fact of life that lots of people aren't reading cache listings. That sometimes leads to frustration or even danger.

 

I agree that it's completely my fault when there's a problem because I haven't read the listing, but having an attribute like this might make those problems less frequent.

[+Tequila]

I think DavidMac makes a very good point. Most cache owners would probably automatically check that attribute which would defeat the purpose of your idea.

 

I don't think you are gonna find my support for your idea.

[+Isonzo Karst]

It may be the set up I'm using,? but I don't see attributes coming with the .gpx anyway?

I dump files into GSAK, and then create .gpx for Garmin, .upt for a Magi and a .pdb file for Cachemate. Attributes don't seem to be in any of those.

 

As I say, this may be my ignorance.

 

A "you should read page attribute" might be used by some pure numbers runners to filter out caches in the PQ itself. I always filter for NO stealth when I run any PQ.

[Keystone]

You would, however, see widespread support for improving GPX files to include the selected cache attributes. That would address several of the OP's concerns, including safety warnings and restricted hours of availability. The "coords have changed" concern is easily answered: create an instant notification to be informed of "Update Coordinates" logs.

[+Urubu]

It may be the set up I'm using,? but I don't see attributes coming with the .gpx anyway?

I dump files into GSAK, and then create .gpx for Garmin, .upt for a Magi and a .pdb file for Cachemate. Attributes don't seem to be in any of those.

 

As I say, this may be my ignorance.

 

A "you should read page attribute" might be used by some pure numbers runners to filter out caches in the PQ itself. I always filter for NO stealth when I run any PQ.

 

 

Using it for filtering PQs is exactly what I meant, although maybe that wasn't very clear.

 

Say you're traveling in an unfamiliar spot. Maybe you don't even speak the local language, so that looking at cache listings for warnings and such isn't really very helpful anyway. You would run a PQ and filter out all the caches with this new "You really & truly have to look at the cache page" attribute. Hopefully that would keep you having fun and out of trouble.

[+Prime Suspect]

It may be the set up I'm using,? but I don't see attributes coming with the .gpx anyway?

I dump files into GSAK, and then create .gpx for Garmin, .upt for a Magi and a .pdb file for Cachemate. Attributes don't seem to be in any of those.

 

As I say, this may be my ignorance.

 

A "you should read page attribute" might be used by some pure numbers runners to filter out caches in the PQ itself. I always filter for NO stealth when I run any PQ.

 

 

Using it for filtering PQs is exactly what I meant, although maybe that wasn't very clear.

 

Say you're traveling in an unfamiliar spot. Maybe you don't even speak the local language, so that looking at cache listings for warnings and such isn't really very helpful anyway. You would run a PQ and filter out all the caches with this new "You really & truly have to look at the cache page" attribute. Hopefully that would keep you having fun and out of trouble.

 

Only with Traditional caches can one assume that no other information is needed to find it. With any other type, you are expected to read the cache page. There's your filter.

[+Urubu]

 

Only with Traditional caches can one assume that no other information is needed to find it. With any other type, you are expected to read the cache page. There's your filter.

 

Thanks, but of course I already knew about that filter . Try it on this cache page or this one. It might be nice to know whether one does or doesn't have a chance of finding these from the PQ coordinates only, because that the only information some cachers would have.

 

Edit: Sorry, Prime Suspect, I didn't read your post carefully enough. My worry includes the fact that even on traditionals there is sometimes important extra information that is vital for the search -- either for finding the cache, or for searching safely and appropriately. If I will be searching only from the PQ coordinates or other cryptic information, I might want to filter those out of a PQ.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Urubu

[+Xaa]

I'd say that cachers that risk their own health by not reading warnings only have themselves to blame. Cachers that don't read the information, well, actually, if the cache description says "the cache is not here but there", it shouldn't be a traditional, so they might have a valid point there .

 

I'd only care about cachers who obviously can't be bothered to adhere to any restrictions, and those people won't be reached anyway, since they obviously don't care about the problems that might cause for the cache, the owner or geocaching at large.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

This isn't a fully worked-out idea, but I wonder if we could have an attribute for "Vital Information on Cache Page", maybe with an exclamation point as the icon. That would allow filtering and flagging of these kinds of caches, and maybe increase the fun and safety of caching in general.

 

If they hunt from a GPS they may not see the attribute either.

 

Garmin likes using a geocache symbol for cache waypoints. If a system was worked out that used a different symbol for the "don't look for this without reading the cache page because there is either information you need or the cache is an ALR" symbol you could cater to the blind hunting crowd. Maybe.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Renegade Knight

[AZcachemeister]

Nearly every cache page has vital, interesting or necessary information.

If you choose not to read, you do so at your own peril.

Adding an icon or attribute will not teach the lesson that is needed.

[+Urubu]

Nearly every cache page has vital, interesting or necessary information.

If you choose not to read, you do so at your own peril.

Adding an icon or attribute will not teach the lesson that is needed.

 

Your "cache globally" signature line makes an interesting combination with your admonition that one should always read the cache page. There are lots of global cache pages that I can't read, which is part of why I made the suggestion.

 

I agree: when possible, it's always a good idea to read the cache page before a hunt. I also completely agree that if trouble ensues from failure to read the cache page, that's entirely the seeker's fault.

 

But I don't believe that all cache pages are equally important to read. Giving seekers the ability to filter out from PQs caches that truly require careful reading (because of special local rules, promises that the hider made to someone granting permission, special equipment needed by seekers, etc.) could be a net benefit.

 

Edit: What about a "Special Requirements" attribute? Maybe that's a middle ground that would signal that it's particularly important to read the cache description, without implying that it's OK to search without reading?

Edited February 25, 2009 by Urubu

[+Prime Suspect]

But I don't believe that all cache pages are equally important to read.

Nobody made that claim.

[+Urubu]

But I don't believe that all cache pages are equally important to read.

Nobody made that claim.

 

Right. All I meant was that I don't believe that all cache pages are equally important to read.

[+dakboy]

Only with Traditional caches can one assume that no other information is needed to find it. With any other type, you are expected to read the cache page. There's your filter.

Even with traditionals, there may be be key information in the cache listing like "approach this area from the east, as the western approach is private property and permission hasn't been granted to cross it."

[+rob3k]

But don't PQs already include the cache description? I get them loaded onto my GPSr from PQs that were imported into GSAK.