Jump to content

Caches in Wildlife Management Areas in New York?


snowfreak37

Recommended Posts

I wanted to see if anyone on this board has any information about why placing caches on Wildlife Management Areas in New York State is currently not allowed by the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine. I am not trying to troll but I'd like to get a very accurate and clear understanding of what happened and some sort of a time line so that when I attempt to contact the current director, I have as much information as possible. My current story goes as such. First of all I live in DEC region 5 area. After three calls to the DEC region 5 office to ask for permission to place a cache I am put into contact with XX. XX gives me verbal permission this early December. I place my cache and submit it for review and it gets rejected for being on a Wildlife Management Area. I am told to place the cache I need to get written authorization, I misunderstand and assume written permission from XX at DEC region 5 headquaters. In reality I need written permission from the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine acording to my reviewer. In the meantime I get written permission from XX at DEC region 5 and he does a very nice detailed letter stating that the WMA's in Clinton and Essex counties are open for caching. I am trying to find out if anyone knows when the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine in NY contacted this site and asked to not publish caches. Was there a particular circumstance that I should be aware of before contacting the current director (assuming I can). Thanks for any information.

Link to comment

I wanted to see if anyone on this board has any information about why placing caches on Wildlife Management Areas in New York State is currently not allowed by the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine. I am not trying to troll but I'd like to get a very accurate and clear understanding of what happened and some sort of a time line so that when I attempt to contact the current director, I have as much information as possible. My current story goes as such. First of all I live in DEC region 5 area. After three calls to the DEC region 5 office to ask for permission to place a cache I am put into contact with XX. XX gives me verbal permission this early December. I place my cache and submit it for review and it gets rejected for being on a Wildlife Management Area. I am told to place the cache I need to get written authorization, I misunderstand and assume written permission from XX at DEC region 5 headquaters. In reality I need written permission from the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine acording to my reviewer. In the meantime I get written permission from XX at DEC region 5 and he does a very nice detailed letter stating that the WMA's in Clinton and Essex counties are open for caching. I am trying to find out if anyone knows when the Director of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine in NY contacted this site and asked to not publish caches. Was there a particular circumstance that I should be aware of before contacting the current director (assuming I can). Thanks for any information.

 

I tried to place a cache in a WMA in 2005 I believe it was. I was told that caches were not allowed in NY WMA's. The reason to me, it seemed, was pretty much because NYAdmin says so. :yikes: The alleged ban seems to have been pretty new at that time, because caches were definitely published in a local WMA in 2004. Personally, I never did find any documentation anywhere of such a ban, either on the web, or with a few calls to local DEC officials. And I definitely contacted the DEC. Has there been a name change, or administration change of WMA's since then?

 

You could contact the current director. Or you could just appeal this cache through geocaching.com channels, and include your documentation that you have permission.

 

Edit to add: I submitted that cache on a NY WMA in February, 2005. I'll bet dozens of caches in WMA's have been rejected since then.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
Link to comment

I tried to place a cache in a WMA in 2005 I believe it was. I was told that caches were not allowed in NY WMA's. The reason to me, it seemed, was pretty much because NYAdmin says so. The alleged ban seems to have been pretty new at that time, because caches were definitely published in a local WMA in 2004. Personally, I never did find any documentation anywhere of such a ban, either on the web, or with a few calls to local DEC officials.

 

You could contact the current director. Or you could just appeal this cache through geocaching.com channels, and include your documentation that you have permission.

 

 

Sounds like I am having the same issues that you did. I have permission from the gentelman who patrols this area but nothing from the director. I don't mind trying to contact the current director but I am trying to find out when and where this documentation began. It appears that sometime in 2004, 2005 the director contacted someone here and asked that caches not be published on WMA's. I'd like to see the details of that directive so I'm not shooting from the hip when I contact this current director. As of right now according to NY admin no caches are allowed on WMA's, there must be some documentation from the director to support the ban on the WMA's. I am hoping to get the WMA's open for caching. I think its an excellent use of the resources that we have.

Link to comment

This is a fantastic topic. We submitted a cache in a local WMA for review in September of 2004. Here was the response:

 

September 1, 2004 by New York Admin (0 found)

I'm sorry, this cache appears to be located in a New York State Department of Conservation Game Management Area. The NY State DEC has recently stated that geocaches are forbidden in NY State on DEC managed properties without a Temperary Revokable Parmit. Unless you have verifiable permission and a permit from the head park ranger or the DEC regional office, this cache must be removed as soon as possible and I'm archiving the cache.

Please don't hesitate to respond with an explanation if you feel this cache has been misjudged or after you've received permission.

 

Thanks,

New York Admin

Geocaching.com

 

We never really followed up on this one, as we figured we'd have a heck of a time getting it approved from the local DEC.

 

Does anyone know if NYGO has lobbied the state in regard to caches in WMA's? It would be a fine day in WNY if our WMA's were opened to caching.

Link to comment

It would be a fine day in WNY if our WMA's were opened to caching.

 

We got hammered here on Long Island when NYA realized we couldn't cache on WMA's.

Rocky Point - 5,600 acres

Otis Pike Preserve - 4000 acres

Sarnoff Preserve - 2,300 acres

 

...and a few smaller places but for an island only a hundred miles long with most of that suburbs, 12,000 acres of woodlands is a huge loss.

Edited by macatac1961
Link to comment

As I understand things, the DEC had a ban on all their lands until around 2004 or 2005. Then they did a study and decided to lift the ban on forest preserve and state forest land - I'm not certain if WMAs were included in that though. My fuzzy memory says they weren't, but I could be wrong.

 

Then I think a year or two later the management of the Adirondack Forest Preserve backtracked and chose not to allow geocaches on some (or all) Adirondack Forest Preserve land.

 

I think the issue is with the DEC and one hand not telling the other hand what it is doing.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation

Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources, Region 5

Bureau Of Wildlife

Website: www.dec.state.ny.us

 

 

MEMORANDUM

 

TO: XX

FROM: XX, Wildlife

SUBJECT: Geocaching on Lewis Preserve WMA

DATE: February 20, 2009

 

At this time a permit is not required to place a geocache on State owned Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) in Clinton and Essex Counties of New York. These areas include Kings Bay WMA, Montys Bay WMA, Lake Alice WMA, Lewis Preserve WMA, Ausable Marsh WMA, Wickham Marsh WMA, Pauline Murdoch WMA, and Putts Creek WMA. The placing of a geocache and participating in geocaching are authorized uses of these WMAs and are fully compatible with the management goals for these lands.

 

If in the future, a permit is required to place a geocache on these WMAs, I will happily issue you one. In the meantime, please allow this memorandum to serve as your authorization to continue your activities.

 

If you have any questions or if I can be of any additional assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me XX

 

 

 

So I received this permission letter from the local DEC region 5 office. The official one is on DEC letterhead and included his and my names. From my current understanding I need to try and get a similar letter from the director of fish, wildlife, and marine. I don't mind trying to do that but at this time that information is coming from within (here), not from the DEC office. The directors guide lines supercede the regiional ones from what I understand. I'm just trying to find out the specifics of the original letter, email, directive sent here that ban publishing caches in WMA's because the regional DEC office is certainly not aware of such a ban. I'd like to have all my ducks in a row first before attempting to contact the current director.

Link to comment

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation

Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources, Region 5

Bureau Of Wildlife

Website: www.dec.state.ny.us

 

 

MEMORANDUM

 

TO: XX

FROM: XX, Wildlife

SUBJECT: Geocaching on Lewis Preserve WMA

DATE: February 20, 2009

 

At this time a permit is not required to place a geocache on State owned Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) in Clinton and Essex Counties of New York. These areas include Kings Bay WMA, Montys Bay WMA, Lake Alice WMA, Lewis Preserve WMA, Ausable Marsh WMA, Wickham Marsh WMA, Pauline Murdoch WMA, and Putts Creek WMA. The placing of a geocache and participating in geocaching are authorized uses of these WMAs and are fully compatible with the management goals for these lands.

 

If in the future, a permit is required to place a geocache on these WMAs, I will happily issue you one. In the meantime, please allow this memorandum to serve as your authorization to continue your activities.

 

If you have any questions or if I can be of any additional assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me XX

 

 

 

So I received this permission letter from the local DEC region 5 office. The official one is on DEC letterhead and included his and my names. From my current understanding I need to try and get a similar letter from the director of fish, wildlife, and marine. I don't mind trying to do that but at this time that information is coming from within (here), not from the DEC office. The directors guide lines supercede the regiional ones from what I understand. I'm just trying to find out the specifics of the original letter, email, directive sent here that ban publishing caches in WMA's because the regional DEC office is certainly not aware of such a ban. I'd like to have all my ducks in a row first before attempting to contact the current director.

 

Have you asked NY Admin? He is the one that is probably the most knowledgeable about this.

Link to comment

Have you asked NY Admin? He is the one that is probably the most knowledgeable about this.

 

Yes I have and NY Admin has been very good about getting back with me. I'm trying to find out what was handed down. There must be an email or some correspondence that details what took place to ban publishing caches on WMA's. Is this correspondence from 2 weeks ago or 5 years ago. I have a letter authorizing placing a cache 2/20/2009 but not from the Director. There must be a similar letter or email banning publishing these caches on WMA's. That information may prove to be very important when I try to contact the current director if that is indeed what is required. Some caches were published on WMA's in the past what was the triggering point? Did we always contact the Director prior to placing caches on WMA's in NY? From what I understand the current Director is a female so I'm not sure how long ago this transpired. How far up the food chain does one need to go? Is the Director the top? I wanted to post here because I did not want to take up all of NY Admin time. I figure he or she is voluntering time to publish caches. I would rather try and contact the Director myself, I'm the one that would like to place a cache on a WMA, and like my first post suggested I'd like to have as much information as possible before contacting the current Director. Who know's maybe the current Director is a fellow cacher? Here is the last reply from NY Amin.

 

This was handed down to me when I started reviewing caches. At one point a regional manager authorized a geocache in a WMA and even wrote a letter authorizing it. I called the director and he told me not to publish any caches in a state Wildlife Management Area, regional managers can not reverse his office's policy..

 

If you wish to pursue this have Mr. XX contact the Director and have the Director email me with authorization to start publishing geocaches in WMA's. Until I hear it from the Director I'm not allowed to publish caches located in a NYS WMA.

Link to comment

We've had numerous instances where local management approved caches, but were overturned by their bosses, so that is probably why NY Admin wants approval from the top.

 

Well true. Including an example in the general forum last week where a cache was blown up. :D In this case, the information as to why we haven't been able place caches in WMA's since at least September 2004 may exist in clear-cut black and white fashion somewhere, but it's certainly never been diseminated to the troops on the ground as far as I can tell. (Inkwell, you really save 4.5 year old emails? :shocked:) NYAdmin is not the final authority. If you feel (as I obviously do) that you have explicit permission to place caches on these WMA's and are being made to "jump through hoops", you can forward that letter along with your explanation to appeals@geocaching.com and appeal your cache rejection. Believe it or not, reviewers have been wrong before, and their decisions have been overturned.

 

Man, did I just type that? I feel like FireRef or something. :yikes: But those are my thoughts, and you certainly got 'em.

Link to comment

 

This was handed down to me when I started reviewing caches. At one point a regional manager authorized a geocache in a WMA and even wrote a letter authorizing it. I called the director and he told me not to publish any caches in a state Wildlife Management Area, regional managers can not reverse his office's policy..

 

 

Actually, it's not a quote from Snowfreak37, but from NYAdmin. Back in the olden days, before NYAdmin and later Sapience Trek were appointed, NJAdmin reviewed all caches in New York State (with occasional help from Keystone and others). So I'd have to think NJAdmin would be the hander downer.

Link to comment

We've had numerous instances where local management approved caches, but were overturned by their bosses, so that is probably why NY Admin wants approval from the top.

 

Well true. Including an example in the general forum last week where a cache was blown up. :) In this case, the information as to why we haven't been able place caches in WMA's since at least September 2004 may exist in clear-cut black and white fashion somewhere, but it's certainly never been diseminated to the troops on the ground as far as I can tell. (Inkwell, you really save 4.5 year old emails? ;)) NYAdmin is not the final authority. If you feel (as I obviously do) that you have explicit permission to place caches on these WMA's and are being made to "jump through hoops", you can forward that letter along with your explanation to appeals@geocaching.com and appeal your cache rejection. Believe it or not, reviewers have been wrong before, and their decisions have been overturned.

 

Man, did I just type that? I feel like FireRef or something. :unsure: But those are my thoughts, and you certainly got 'em.

 

Well the email has been sent along with supporting documentation. I will post the outcome when I have one.

Link to comment

Here was the outcome, Our area volunteer reviewers maintain contact with the land management authorities within their area. In the case you cited, I encourage you to continue to work with reviewer New York Admin. I will continue to follow this thread just in case someone is aware of how and when the Director of the DEC came into contact with this site to ban publishing caches on WMA's. I will wait until next week and if no furhter info is available on this end I will try and contact the current Director for additional permission.

Link to comment

I'm going to keep an eye on this as I live near a WMA in central Stuben County (west of Corning) that has two old caches and one navicache located in it. Lots of places to place caches if ever re-approved.

 

Thanks for doing the footwork on this! I, for one, appreciate it!

 

Well, that was fast on the appeal!! "They" probably saw this thread. I said the sort of things that I'm sure are often said privately about specific cache rejections. :lol:

 

Wickedann brings up a good point Snowfreak. I'm sure you didn't ask for it, and you might not even realize it, but your reviewer and TPTB are putting you in a position to have to go to bat for the entire NY Geocaching community regarding cache placements on WMA's! Don't worry, I'm sure you're up to the task, considering that nice letter of permission you received from your local administration.

 

I don't know, maybe you'd like to go in with some advice or support of one (or more) of the many geocaching organizations in New York? There is a pinned thread at the top of this forum with links to most of them. NYGO (New York Geocaching Organization) is the oldest, and intended to be State-wide, but NY sort of fractured into several regional organizations. No animousity or anything, people just apparently prefer local organizations, I guess. NYGO sort of became the de-facto Buffalo area organization. There was a NNYGEO (Northern New York), but the website appears to have disappeared from the web. Don't know what happened there.

Link to comment

WhiteUrkel good call, I registered on the New York Geocaching Organization web site and sure enough there was some information on that web site but most of it dead ends in 04 and 05. There was talk of a $25 permit system and the requirement of having liability insurance and Temporary Revocable Permits (TRP's) but the threads just seem to end, leaving me wondering where this stands. The particular threads I am referring to are under the Land Management forums but all of those threads were from 04, 05. It will be interesting to see where this all ends as this plot seems to thicken the more I dig in. Whoever was the NY Admin back in 2004 has a wealth of information. It would appear most of this has been researched many moons ago. Heres an example from 12/7/2004

 

Hi, I have an early Christmas present for all geocachers in New York State.

 

Not sure if you are aware of it or not but I've been working with DEC for 5 months now to have state land opened up once again to geocaching. I met again this past Monday with Tom Wolf, Bureau of State Land Management, NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation and Peter Frank, Bureau Chief, Forest Preserve Management, NYS DEC. At this last meeting they finally gave me the thumbs up. The Temporary Revocable Permits are out and geocaching is in. In without a permit. In without a fee. In without State control.

 

The Bureau of Land Management has done a study of geocaching on state land and found there seems to be no negative impact to the land and therefore see no reason not to allow it.

 

The rangers (including Mr. Messenger) have all been instructed to leave any geocache in place as long as it is CLEARLY MARKED as a GEOCACHE and not causing a problems.

 

Now for the limitations. You just knew there had to be some didn't you. Well they aren't anything that's not already in the Geocache Listing Guidelines.

1. All containers must be clearly labeled on the outside as a GEOCACHE.

2. No caches placed on mountain tops, keep them down within the tree line.

3. No digging in the ground to bury a cache.

4. Don't post or advertise this new policy anywhere so we don't' have a flood of new caches on state land. Let this information drift out on its own.

 

The only state lands we aren't allowed on yet is Wildlife Management Areas and I'm still working on that. Lands where the state holds an easement are a whole new can of worms. Every easement is different, some we can and some we can't use. I’ll need to run each cache on an easement through the DEC office in Albany before I can approve it.

This is all on a trial bases so lets tread lightly and show the DEC office we can police ourselves.

 

That's about it in a nut shell. Tell your friends if you want but please don't post it in the forums or on your web page.. I'm sure it will hit there eventually but maybe it will wait until winter so there isn't a mad rush to state lands.

 

Please ask your webmaster to remove the statement from your home page that caches are not allowed on state land. Also, and here’s the kicker, a bonus I hadn’t counted on he/she can also remove the line that caches are not allowed in the Adirondack and Catskill parks.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

New York Admin

geocaching.com

Link to comment

I can sure sympathize with NYAdmin's position. While ordinarily a letter like that from the regional office is bombproof evidence of permission, the contradictory advice from the higher management level will control the reviewer's decision unless and until rescinded.

 

I have been burned on this very issue with three different land managers. In one example where the field personnel said they welcomed geocaching, the main office later demanded the cache's archival, and went out of its way to criticize me as being part of the problem with geocaching. I take that pretty seriously, since I take pride in my work.

 

It's always painful to say "no, there's a land manager policy." I'm like an unpaid enforcement agent who gets very little thanks for unseen work in the background to respect the policy, but a faceful of poo if I should do anything with which top agency management later disagrees.

Link to comment

WhiteUrkel good call, I registered on the New York Geocaching Organization web site and sure enough there was some information on that web site but most of it dead ends in 04 and 05. There was talk of a $25 permit system and the requirement of having liability insurance and Temporary Revocable Permits (TRP's) but the threads just seem to end, leaving me wondering where this stands. The particular threads I am referring to are under the Land Management forums but all of those threads were from 04, 05. It will be interesting to see where this all ends as this plot seems to thicken the more I dig in. Whoever was the NY Admin back in 2004 has a wealth of information. It would appear most of this has been researched many moons ago. Heres an example from 12/7/2004

 

Hi, I have an early Christmas present for all geocachers in New York State.

 

Not sure if you are aware of it or not but I've been working with DEC for 5 months now to have state land opened up once again to geocaching. I met again this past Monday with Tom Wolf, Bureau of State Land Management, NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation and Peter Frank, Bureau Chief, Forest Preserve Management, NYS DEC. At this last meeting they finally gave me the thumbs up. The Temporary Revocable Permits are out and geocaching is in. In without a permit. In without a fee. In without State control.

 

The Bureau of Land Management has done a study of geocaching on state land and found there seems to be no negative impact to the land and therefore see no reason not to allow it.

 

The rangers (including Mr. Messenger) have all been instructed to leave any geocache in place as long as it is CLEARLY MARKED as a GEOCACHE and not causing a problems.

 

Now for the limitations. You just knew there had to be some didn't you. Well they aren't anything that's not already in the Geocache Listing Guidelines.

1. All containers must be clearly labeled on the outside as a GEOCACHE.

2. No caches placed on mountain tops, keep them down within the tree line.

3. No digging in the ground to bury a cache.

4. Don't post or advertise this new policy anywhere so we don't' have a flood of new caches on state land. Let this information drift out on its own.

 

The only state lands we aren't allowed on yet is Wildlife Management Areas and I'm still working on that. Lands where the state holds an easement are a whole new can of worms. Every easement is different, some we can and some we can't use. I’ll need to run each cache on an easement through the DEC office in Albany before I can approve it.

This is all on a trial bases so lets tread lightly and show the DEC office we can police ourselves.

 

That's about it in a nut shell. Tell your friends if you want but please don't post it in the forums or on your web page.. I'm sure it will hit there eventually but maybe it will wait until winter so there isn't a mad rush to state lands.

 

Please ask your webmaster to remove the statement from your home page that caches are not allowed on state land. Also, and here’s the kicker, a bonus I hadn’t counted on he/she can also remove the line that caches are not allowed in the Adirondack and Catskill parks.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

New York Admin

geocaching.com

 

Took me a few reads, but I finally figured out most of this post is a cut and paste of a NYAdmin post to the NYGO forums from 2004 or 2005. Good info. I don't see why they are so secretive with such information now though, and you had to come to the forums to see if anyone knew when and why caching was "banned" on NY WMA's.

 

Oh, that's the same NYAdmin, believe me. Nobody was NYAdmin before NYAdmin was NYAdmin. Just like I'm sure there was never another Keystone. Keystone Approver maybe. :D

Link to comment

Between researching NYGO forums (Thanks WhiteUrkel) and an informative reply from NY Adim (Thanks NY Admin) I have a good understanding what is going on. The first paragraph was an email sent to NY Admin from me and the next one is NY Admin's reply (printed with his permission). I'll make the call this upcoming week and post the information here.

 

 

In regards to XX, Do you have any information that you could share with me that might help me get permission to place caches on WMA's. To your knowledge is there an email or document here at geocaching.com that shows why caches should not be published? You mentioned that a similar situation occured where a cacher received authorization from the local land manager but you contacted the Director and he rejected that authorization, when was that? Was that the last contact that you have had with the Director? If you can think of anything that would help us get caching back into these WMA's it would be greatly appreciated. I just wanted to exhaust my resources here before attempting to contact the current Director. Thanks

 

 

 

This Wildlife Management Area restriction was handed down to me from the reviewer who covered NYS before me. At that time Geocaching was not allowed on any state DEC lands. During the summer of 04 using the personal contacts I had in DEC I managed to work my way up to the two land bureau chiefs. I met with them several times and convinced them to do a study on the impact geocaching was having on the environment. I suspect the study consisted of no more than a survey sent to the regional managers. At that time it was determined geocaching was having no negative effect on the enviroment and we were permitted to start placing caches on lands managed by the two land bureaus. In 2004 there were very few geocaches out in the wild compared to now. I don't think the results would be the same today.

 

NYS DEC lands are broken up into several classifications and some falling into more than one classification. Its all very confusing. The two bureau chiefs I worked with granted us permission (with few limitations - see my profile) to start geocaching on lands they were responsible for. However, they could not speak for Wildlife Management Areas because they are managed by different branch of DEC.

 

About 3 years ago a cache placer insisted he had permission from the region 4 wildlife biologist. Befoe publishing that cache I called the then director Barnhart and was told not to publish geocaches in NYS DEC Wildlife Management Areas. Geocaching was not an 'approved' use and allowing a 'non approved' use could jepordise their federal funding. He went on to say the regional offices do not have the authority to grant an unapproved use of a state Wildlife Management Area. As a result of that conversation I can not publish a geocache within a NYS DEC Wildlife Management Area without notification and approval from the directors office.

 

With 85 Wildlife Management Areas in New York totaling over 200,000 acres it would be a great addition to our states geocaching resources if we could start geocaching within them. As a reviewer I would love nothing more than to be able to publish caches in state WMAs. With 85 areas scattered throughout the state its hard to keep track of them and the state's GIS maping sites are extreamly slow. Just checking for Wildlife Management areas while reviewing chews up a hugh amout of time.

 

Like I said, I would love nothing better than to be able to publish caches in state Wildlife Management Areas and I hope you can succeed in opening WMAs up for us.

 

If I can be of any further help don't hesitate to ask.

 

New York Admin

volunteer cache reviewer

Link to comment

What really bothers me about all of this is the fact that you can shoot animals, fish and trap in WMA's, but geocaching isn't allowed.....or is it? I am confused....

Apples and oranges.

Hunting and fishing both generate revenue and serve the purpose of keeping wildlife populations in check. You can't compare that to this game which in their eyes has no positive effects other than bringing people into the woods. Which I believe in WMA's they'd want to limit.

Link to comment

What really bothers me about all of this is the fact that you can shoot animals, fish and trap in WMA's, but geocaching isn't allowed.....or is it? I am confused....

 

The entire point of WMAs is to manage game for hunters. In many instances the land was paid for through fees collected from hunting and fishing licenses and taxes on ammo. Other uses are allowed or denied based on compatibility with the prime mission of WMAs, which is game management.

 

Personally I don't see why geocaching can't be compatible. Many other states allow it in WMAs.

Link to comment

I just wanted to post an update of what is currently going on. I contacted the current Director of Fish, Wildlife and Marine today. She was very pleasant to talk with and had a good understanding of the geocaching sport. She needs to get more information before giving me a final answer but all in all I thought it was a postive conversation. When I hear back with the final outcome I will post again.

Link to comment

What really bothers me about all of this is the fact that you can shoot animals, fish and trap in WMA's, but geocaching isn't allowed.....or is it? I am confused....

 

The entire point of WMAs is to manage game for hunters. In many instances the land was paid for through fees collected from hunting and fishing licenses and taxes on ammo. Other uses are allowed or denied based on compatibility with the prime mission of WMAs, which is game management.

 

Personally I don't see why geocaching can't be compatible. Many other states allow it in WMAs.

That may be the OFFICIAL point of WMA's, but in reality it seems like it's more a matter of expedience and random assignments. I have had caches rejected in a narrow strip of land which contains a sanctioned bike trail and an abandoned potato farm, neither of which allow hunting, because they were both added to the Otis Pike Preserve (they do not border the main section, or each other, at all.)

I was involved in the discussion back in '05 and we never did get a reference to the justification for disallowing caches on WMA's. I don't remember hearing anything about losing federal funding because of "non-approved uses."

At the time it certainly seemed like someone was witholding information. When the matter was sent for appeal Michael from Groundspeak basicly said, "The answer is no and I don't have to tell you why."

(I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it.)

Most of us here on Long Island seem to have given up for now. I no longer think of NYAdmin as The Evil One :huh: He/she has been very fair and helpful with my caches since then. We still have some disagreements but the hard work and dedication she/he puts into the job is evident.

I'll be waiting to see what happens...

Link to comment

I wanted to post a quick update and let you know that I am still very active in trying to get permission to place geocaches on all New York State WMA's. I have not encountered any major road blocks but still do not have a permission letter to allow geocaches. My last contact with the Director was today and it will be several weeks before I hear another reply. I am still just as optimistic as I was a month ago about geocaching on WMA's but either way I will post the results here.

Link to comment

I wanted to post a quick update and let you know that I am still very active in trying to get permission to place geocaches on all New York State WMA's. I have not encountered any major road blocks but still do not have a permission letter to allow geocaches. My last contact with the Director was today and it will be several weeks before I hear another reply. I am still just as optimistic as I was a month ago about geocaching on WMA's but either way I will post the results here.

 

Good luck!

Link to comment

Snowfreak did it! :drama:

 

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation

Division of Fish, Wildlife & Marine Resources, 5th Floor

625 Broadway, Albany, New York 12233-4750

Phone (518) 402-8924 • Fax: (518) 402-8925

Website: www.dec.ny.gov

 

June 15, 2009

 

To Whom it May Concern:

 

Geocaching is an opportunity and incentive for New Yorkers to get outside and enjoy the benefits of our natural resources. As such, this activity is consistent with Commissioner Grannis’s goal to "Connect New Yorkers to Nature." As you know, we have previously identified geocaching as an acceptable activity on most state forests and I encourage you and your colleagues to avail themselves of this additional state land. Whereas geocaching may also be an acceptable activity at many Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs), it does pose some potential concerns that need to be addressed.

 

WMAs are managed first and foremost for fish and wildlife and that is the overarching consideration in what activities may be allowed at the sites. Most of our WMAs support some sensitive habitats, such as wetlands, and these areas are not conducive to human traffic and disturbance. Some seasons are of particular concern, such as the breeding season (spring through fall).

Therefore I am identifying a few specific limitations for use of WMAs for geocaching:

Before creating a new cache, the responsible sponsor must contact the Regional Wildlife Manager for that area to determine whether there are any site-specific or seasonal limitations that need to be factored into the siting of the cache. Approval must be given in writing to establish the cache. Some WMAs simply may not be acceptable cache sites.

Limit caches to occasional use, not event-type caches where there is a large-scale or timed event, which is more likely to provide disturbance to the wildlife. This is particularly critical for the spring through fall when breeding is occurring.

Preference is given to virtual caches where coordinates are given to a specific natural or geologic feature and there is no physical material left at the site.

Some caches may require Temporary Revocable Permits (TRPs) depending on the conditions of the site. The sponsor would be required to apply and receive the TRP before siting the cache.

Please be aware that most of our WMAs are used for hunting and that at certain times of the year geocachers may chose to limit their activities at these sites. Certainly wearing conspicuous clothing and exercising extra caution would be appropriate.

 

2.

People using WMAs should exercise good stewardship principles. Keep to trails when possible and avoid creating footpaths that create erosion. Check clothing and footwear for clinging seeds and plant material to prevent the spread of invasive species. Respect other users and do not disturb wildlife. Carry trash out and help pick up any left by previous, less respectful users.

 

Although WMAs were purchased over time with a suite of funding sources, much of the funding for management comes from the sporting licenses purchased by hunters and anglers or from similar federal funds. Geocachers who do not buy sporting licenses can help “pay the way” by purchasing a voluntary Habitat and Access Stamp from their local town clerk or wherever licenses are sold.

 

I'd also be interested in having stewardship suggestions posted on your website, if possible, about good manners in the woods and the role that WMAs play in managing wildlife in

New York.

 

Good luck with your endeavors.

 

Sincerely,

Patricia Riexinger

Director

Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...