share my outrage

[+Firefighter Skippy]

gee, I guess I cheated today. I found 4 terrain 5 caches that were meant to be found by kayak/canoe. But since it's the dead of winter and the river was frozen and I don't owner a kayak/canoe, I decided to walk the frozen river.

To me, cheating would be logging a find that my buddies found while i stayed at home/work, but i was there in spirit. However, if I'm with a group and we all hike out to a puzzle that one of has solved, I don't consider that cheating, because we made the effort to get there.

Sorry, I'm not an eloquent writer, so I'll just stop here.

[+sullude]

How many times have you read this in a log, "We searched various spots for awhile and then used, phone a friend.?" (emphasis added.)

 

What's the difference between seeking help from an internet site or calling another cacher that has found the one you are seeking?

 

The 'phone a friend' is accepted practice, getting a hint or location for a puzzle isn't. Seems like the same thing to me.

 

JoseBar said it best. I still a cherry with under a 100 finds but reading some of these logs and " i phoned cache owner" or " I did the multi got stuck and got the last cord from someone" Wish I had that choice with a couple of dnf three of more times on the same cache. Seems like the more finds they have the more they have to find it the first time out. If I'm wrong I'm sorry but I think I'm not.

 

On the puzzles, It's been a long time since high scool and some of the math is so foggy that I don't have a clue where to start. So i ask people that can help me solve it so i know how to do it next time. If you never ask for help, how can you ever learn. It does help when they put in cord vacationer .

[+Too Tall John]

On the puzzles, It's been a long time since high scool and some of the math is so foggy that I don't have a clue where to start. So i ask people that can help me solve it so i know how to do it next time. If you never ask for help, how can you ever learn.

If you're just given the answer on a silver platter you never learn, either.

[+Renegade Knight]

... Some finders don't understand this and impose their own non existant rules on how finds should really happen. They are wrong but don't understand how and why and it's really not worth explaining to those particular doofies. It's easier as an owner to just archive a cache if it's not fun to own anymore. ...

I wonder if you wouldn't mind delving into this position a little further.

 

From reading your post, I think you are saying that if a few people fail to find your puzzle cache in the way that you intended that you would archive the cache. Wouldn't this merely harm those cachers who want to find the cache the way you intend while not affecting those that would choose to circumvent your preferred method? After all, those people don't want to solve puzzles. Why should they care if there are fewer of them?

 

My muse is eclectic. Each cache has exactly two things in common. I enjoyed placing it and I intend on enjoying owning it. My enjoyment comes from folks enjoying the cache as intended. Meaning the cache is working as intended and giving a certain experience as intended. If I place a puzzle, the intent is that they work out the puzzle. If my goal was that they just find the box that's all the cache would be.

 

Ignoring the disrespect involved by ignoring the cache answers wishes finders often take the stand that "I found the stupid box I deserve the stupid smilie and who the hell are you to ask that I solve a stupid puzzle? You are a stupid moron who doesn't get "caching" to even think of asking". That's where they impose their rule.

 

When it's no fun to own the cache the cache has failed in the intent that I had for it. Then I archive it. I've learned a few lessons. People will work very hard if it's the only way to get a find, but they won't lift a finger once they found the box. I try to keep that in mind since if I don't I'm more likely to not enjoy my own cache since it's just not doing the job.

[+sbell111]

... Some finders don't understand this and impose their own non existant rules on how finds should really happen. They are wrong but don't understand how and why and it's really not worth explaining to those particular doofies. It's easier as an owner to just archive a cache if it's not fun to own anymore. ...

I wonder if you wouldn't mind delving into this position a little further.

 

From reading your post, I think you are saying that if a few people fail to find your puzzle cache in the way that you intended that you would archive the cache. Wouldn't this merely harm those cachers who want to find the cache the way you intend while not affecting those that would choose to circumvent your preferred method? After all, those people don't want to solve puzzles. Why should they care if there are fewer of them?

My muse is eclectic. Each cache has exactly two things in common. I enjoyed placing it and I intend on enjoying owning it. My enjoyment comes from folks enjoying the cache as intended. Meaning the cache is working as intended and giving a certain experience as intended. If I place a puzzle, the intent is that they work out the puzzle. If my goal was that they just find the box that's all the cache would be.

 

Ignoring the disrespect involved by ignoring the cache answers wishes finders often take the stand that "I found the stupid box I deserve the stupid smilie and who the hell are you to ask that I solve a stupid puzzle? You are a stupid moron who doesn't get "caching" to even think of asking". That's where they impose their rule.

 

When it's no fun to own the cache the cache has failed in the intent that I had for it. Then I archive it. I've learned a few lessons. People will work very hard if it's the only way to get a find, but they won't lift a finger once they found the box. I try to keep that in mind since if I don't I'm more likely to not enjoy my own cache since it's just not doing the job.

But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

[+sbell111]

On the puzzles, It's been a long time since high scool and some of the math is so foggy that I don't have a clue where to start. So i ask people that can help me solve it so i know how to do it next time. If you never ask for help, how can you ever learn.

If you're just given the answer on a silver platter you never learn, either.

You learn where to find the answer.

[+acmancuso]

Like another poster before me, I'm just no good at puzzles. I don't know any other geocachers, so I could not phone a friend or "cheat" if I wanted to. I just skip those caches.

[+ras_oscar]

I agree that setting up a forum for sharing the answers to puzzles is unfair and akin to buying a term paper or copying from a friend on an exam.

 

However, as a Noob, I'd like to share my frustration at trying to solve puzzle caches that were created by cachers with a great deal more experinece. I simply pass by all puzzle caches in favor of traditionals.

 

If you're a puzzle lover I suspect there is a certain sense of accomplishment at stumping a number of people. As the sport matures it naturally takes increasingly difficult puzzles to keep the experienced puzzlers interested. Different strokes

[+niraD]

My enjoyment comes from folks enjoying the cache as intended. Meaning the cache is working as intended and giving a certain experience as intended. If I place a puzzle, the intent is that they work out the puzzle.

Just out of curiosity, how much variation in that "experience as intended" are you willing to accept? Some will solve the puzzle on their own. Others will solve the puzzle with a group. Others will not contribute to solving it themselves, but will understand how someone else solved it. Others will not understand the puzzle, and will just tag along when the cache is found. Others will not understand the puzzle, but will contribute significantly to finding the cache. And so on.

 

Does it matter if the ones who don't understand the puzzle are kids tagging along with their parents? If they just don't have the skills/knowledge to understand the puzzle? If they're just lazy? If they share an account with the person who solved the puzzle? If they have their own account, but are related to (or close friends with) the person who solved the puzzle? If they're merely casual acquaintances? If they know each other only online?

 

 

I agree that setting up a forum for sharing the answers to puzzles is unfair and akin to buying a term paper or copying from a friend on an exam.

Except that puzzle caches are not graded term papers or exams.

 

I agree that setting up a cheat site is inconsiderate and disrespectful towards the puzzle cache owners, but I question the outrage, especially outrage the the point of archiving puzzle caches. Archiving puzzle caches hurts those who might want to find the cache as a puzzle cache. The cheat site doesn't "turn the puzzle cache into a traditional", and those who just copy coordinates from a cheat site are only denying themselves the experience of solving the puzzle. And unless those who copy coordinates from a cheat site (or anywhere else) claim to have solved the puzzle, I don't see any dishonesty. Disrespect and a lack of consideration maybe, but not dishonesty. Meanwhile, most puzzlers will ignore the cheat site.

 

If you're a puzzle lover I suspect there is a certain sense of accomplishment at stumping a number of people.

The puzzle cache owners I know don't value stumping lots of people. They value giving people an interesting challenge, and knowing that people enjoyed working on that challenge. Stumping lots of people is a side effect of creating a difficult challenge, but it usually isn't the goal.

[+Parabola]

Here's one for you, that I hope isn't going to derail this topic but it's very similar but not to the magnituide of the OP's complaint's, which I will say I agree wtih. This cheating site is a nightmare.

 

I got a e-mail today from someone I don't know. Seem's they working on a puzzle similar to one I have and asking for a hint on mine. Now they live on the other side of the US, and I'm sure have no intention's of looking for mine, just hoping if they figure mine out by me giving it to them, they will be able to solve whatever puzzle is near them.

 

I just found this e-mail weird and off the wall. What the puzzle is so hard you had to look halfway across the US to find one that is similar??? I don't think so. I just find it all weird. How did they see I have a similar puzzle? Did you ever try contacting the listed cache owner?

 

I think pretty soon, if one want's to make a puzzle cache they are going to have to include a ARL that state's they are expect to find the cache by using the puzzle and not by PAF, other sites, that someone has posted the answer some where on the web.

 

I have another puzzle cache that the last I don't know how many people have cheated to get it and it's so bad it's even rubbed in my face. Then I get a find log from someone saying they have given the answer to other's. I worked really hard on that puzzle and thought I did a very good job with it, but I am thinking it's time to knock the diff/terr down to a 1/1 (due to everyone cheating) and kiss the hide goodbye.

[+JBnW]

If you're a puzzle lover I suspect there is a certain sense of accomplishment at stumping a number of people.

The puzzle cache owners I know don't value stumping lots of people. They value giving people an interesting challenge, and knowing that people enjoyed working on that challenge. Stumping lots of people is a side effect of creating a difficult challenge, but it usually isn't the goal.

 

Second that! I'm pretty sure that many of the experienced cachers can make a puzzle so impossibly complex as to be nearly or absolutely insolvable. I guess I'm missing the point in that. What type of fun can be had from any cache that cannot be found, other than reviewing a bunch of DNFs and requests for hints?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

This thread is, and has been, amusing. First, despite the title, I have never heard any significant outrage from flask. Although she has tried her best to sputter and fume, it is clear that she is simply playing with a convenient muse. And so, it is as if her much-promised rage had disappeared into the void.

 

...as if an occult hand had reached down from above and erased all traces of her rage...

 

.

[+DanOCan]

Back on topic: Like DarkZen, I'm still at "Meh". I'm trying my darndest to be outraged, so I can hop on the bandwagon, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

Yeah, I take a <<shrug>> approach to this issue. I create caches so people can enjoy finding them. I figure people will do what they enjoy -- if someone wants the challenge of finding it without help, they can do so. If someone wants to work with a small group of friends and solve it together, they can do so. If someone wants to join a cheat site, they can do so.

 

I'm just not egotistical enough to believe that "my way" is the ONLY way someone should find my puzzle caches. I've had people find them with only half the coordinates, I've had people use a completely different method from any I had envisioned. I'm sure people have found my puzzles which simply asked someone else for the coordinates or followed along on the hunt. Far from being outraged, as a cache owner I can't figure out why I care as long as they actually found the thing.

[+flask]

This thread is, and has been, amusing. First, despite the title, I have never heard any significant outrage from flask. Although she has tried her best to sputter and fume, it is clear that she is simply playing with a convenient muse. And so, it is as if her much-promised rage had disappeared into the void.

 

...as if an occult hand had reached down from above and erased all traces of her rage...

 

.

 

i was really angry at first.

 

then i used this thread to sort out what i think about it and what i plan to do.

 

now that i have a plan, i feel much better.

[CoyoteRed]

...as a cache owner I can't figure out why I care as long as they actually found the thing.

Personally, my first priority is whether the seekers enjoyed themselves.

 

That still doesn't preclude a sense of propriety, though.

[gerboa]

" believe my response will be to archive my caches. if they're going to cheat -and not only just cheat, but create a cheater's database, i don't want to play."

 

 

As we say here "What a wanker"!

Edited March 1, 2009 by gerboa

[+flask]

" believe my response will be to archive my caches. if they're going to cheat -and not only just cheat, but create a cheater's database, i don't want to play."

 

 

As we say here "What a wanker"!

 

 

i'm going to assume that this is the height of your intellectual powers.

[+Too Tall John]

" believe my response will be to archive my caches. if they're going to cheat -and not only just cheat, but create a cheater's database, i don't want to play."

 

As we say here "What a wanker"!

i'm going to assume that this is the height of your intellectual powers.

I don't know, maybe it's because my body is tired from fighting a cold, but using all the intellectual powers in me, I can't seem to discern who they are calling a wanker...

 

The quoted person (flask), or the database person?

 

I am also puzzled at the use of the size tag. To compensate, I am continuing the rest of this post in a smaller size. Pray that I don't decide to change the font, too.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Too Tall John

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

" believe my response will be to archive my caches. if they're going to cheat -and not only just cheat, but create a cheater's database, i don't want to play."

 

 

As we say here "What a wanker"!

 

 

i'm going to assume that this is the height of your intellectual powers.

Another priceless flask post! Excellent! Thank you!

[+Renegade Knight]

My enjoyment comes from folks enjoying the cache as intended. Meaning the cache is working as intended and giving a certain experience as intended. If I place a puzzle, the intent is that they work out the puzzle.

Just out of curiosity, how much variation in that "experience as intended"...

 

Good question. I don't have a good answer because that's set as part of the cache and the caches are eclectic. If I did a standard puzzle I don't care if kids tag along, I don't care it 200 friends solve it together, it wouldn't bother me if a blind cacher had their sighted friend solve the visual element, and I don't care if they solve it via a method that I didn't ever envision. However if their solution is to phone a friend for the location which is skipping the puzzle. That's over the line.

 

At one time I had a "trade required" cache. No rules or regs beyond that. Pocket lint. Great, Expired cupons, no problem. Trade a wooden nickel for a 20 dollar bill perfect. One cacher took a photo of the cache both inside and out. They listed the contents, detailed the find and demanded their smilie. No deal.

 

That and a few other ALR's taught me that it's so much simpler to place boxes and put any ALR component in front of the find. By in front of the find it means that you can't find the cache without meeting the theme. It's more work up front, but far less work on the tail end enforcing rules that are no fun to enforce.

 

That all said, because of what I've learned I don't argue with other folks about their rules, and I don't short circuit their puzzles. If by chance I get lucky (find the last stage of a multi on accident etc.) I'll ask. It's quick, easy, and if they do mind, well I don't mind logging a note.

[+Renegade Knight]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

[+Renegade Knight]

gee, I guess I cheated today. I found 4 terrain 5 caches that were meant to be found by kayak/canoe....

 

Some caches the puzzle is how to get to the island. The boat being the easiest way. Each cache stands alone. I had one cache on an island where the entire goal was to minimize the bleeding once you got there, and not so much the means of getting to the island.

 

Think I'll replace that cache.

[+sbell111]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

Edited March 2, 2009 by sbell111

[+flask]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

 

my neighbor's cat likes to come into my house in the afternoons and have a nap on my couch. use to be i'd pour her a little saucer of milk but then i stopped buying milk so even though she doesn't expect it anymore, i know that sometimes she'd really like a little something.

 

these days i don't see so much of her because it's winter and i don't use my back door on account of too much snow drifted there and not enough protection. not-my-cat doesn't really like having to use the front door, so while she comes and sits on my car roof and sometimes the front porch, she rarely asks to come in.

[+sbell111]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

 

my neighbor's cat likes to come into my house in the afternoons and have a nap on my couch. use to be i'd pour her a little saucer of milk but then i stopped buying milk so even though she doesn't expect it anymore, i know that sometimes she'd really like a little something.

 

these days i don't see so much of her because it's winter and i don't use my back door on account of too much snow drifted there and not enough protection. not-my-cat doesn't really like having to use the front door, so while she comes and sits on my car roof and sometimes the front porch, she rarely asks to come in.

Please see post #223.

[+niraD]

If I did a standard puzzle I don't care if kids tag along, I don't care it 200 friends solve it together, it wouldn't bother me if a blind cacher had their sighted friend solve the visual element, and I don't care if they solve it via a method that I didn't ever envision. However if their solution is to phone a friend for the location which is skipping the puzzle. That's over the line.

How about couples that cache as a team, with just one shared account? He works an hour from home in one direction, and she works an hour from home in the opposite direction. If he solves a puzzle near her workplace, can she make the find at lunchtime using his coordinates? Or vice versa?

 

Personally, I'd be disappointed if someone didn't consider my puzzle interesting enough to solve, or even interesting enough to understand someone else's solution. I'd be disappointed if someone just found the cache using someone else's coordinates. But outraged? No, I don't think I'd be outraged.

[+flask]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

 

my neighbor's cat likes to come into my house in the afternoons and have a nap on my couch. use to be i'd pour her a little saucer of milk but then i stopped buying milk so even though she doesn't expect it anymore, i know that sometimes she'd really like a little something.

 

these days i don't see so much of her because it's winter and i don't use my back door on account of too much snow drifted there and not enough protection. not-my-cat doesn't really like having to use the front door, so while she comes and sits on my car roof and sometimes the front porch, she rarely asks to come in.

Please see post #223.

 

it turns out that "pleonasm" doesn't mean quite what i thought it did. i also almost never get to use the word "crapulence", no matter how i try.

 

in effect, a mechanical engineer might eat beans but in the end there always seems to be a brass purse and a stuffed duck.

[Mushtang]

it turns out that "pleonasm" doesn't mean quite what i thought it did. i also almost never get to use the word "crapulence", no matter how i try.

 

in effect, a mechanical engineer might eat beans but in the end there always seems to be a brass purse and a stuffed duck.

i'm going to assume that this is the height of your intellectual powers.

[+flask]

it turns out that "pleonasm" doesn't mean quite what i thought it did. i also almost never get to use the word "crapulence", no matter how i try.

 

in effect, a mechanical engineer might eat beans but in the end there always seems to be a brass purse and a stuffed duck.

i'm going to assume that this is the height of your intellectual powers.

 

 

well, sure, but the flourite moon carving will always fill the bucket sooner than a macrame bell lyre. you should try it sometime, if you have binoculars.

[+sbell111]

I'm going to assume that someone's drugs are not titrated properly. Also, it is my belief that the shift key sits on the left side of the keyboard for a reason.

[+flask]

I'm going to assume that someone's drugs are not titrated properly.

 

why? are you feeling unwell? you ought to see your doctor about that. maybe that explains why you're, uh, slow.

 

best of luck with that.

 

there are shift keys on both sides of the keyboard.

[+Too Tall John]

I'm going to assume that someone's drugs are not titrated properly. Also, it is my belief that the shift key sits on the left side of the keyboard for a reason.

why? are you feeling unwell? you ought to see your doctor about that. maybe that explains why you're, uh, slow.

 

best of luck with that.

 

there are shift keys on both sides of the keyboard.

It's funny, sbell111 seems to have a great talent for remembering past posts, except when the posts in question aren't convenient for him. I've managed to read numerous times about your reasons for not using caps, I find it hard to believe he's missed all of those posts.

 

[+sbell111]

I'm going to assume that someone's drugs are not titrated properly. Also, it is my belief that the shift key sits on the left side of the keyboard for a reason.

why? are you feeling unwell? you ought to see your doctor about that. maybe that explains why you're, uh, slow.

 

best of luck with that.

 

there are shift keys on both sides of the keyboard.

It's funny, sbell111 seems to have a great talent for remembering past posts, except when the posts in question aren't convenient for him. I've managed to read numerous times about your reasons for not using caps, I find it hard to believe he's missed all of those posts.

A couple quick thoughts:

• We remember what we remember. Some things are not deemed important enough to stuff in the file cabinet, I suppose.
  
• I couldn't find a single reply in the linked thread related to capitalization.
  
• Regarding flask's habit of not using caps, it really matters not what the reason is. From the reader's point of view it's still somewhat irritating and difficult to read.
  
• My post was comprised of two separate thoughts.
  
• I still don't understand the last several posts made by RK and flask. It's like they are posting nonsensical jibberish rather than making honest attempts to discuss the issue that they claim is important to them.
  

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

well, sure, but the flourite moon carving will always fill the bucket sooner than a macrame bell lyre. you should try it sometime, if you have binoculars.

flask, you have accidentally misspelled the word "fluorite" as "flourite", at least if you were attempting to denote the colorful mineral named calcium fluoride. This has been a note from the Spelling Police.

[+sbell111]

flourite

[+flask]

well, sure, but the flourite moon carving will always fill the bucket sooner than a macrame bell lyre. you should try it sometime, if you have binoculars.

flask, you have accidentally misspelled the word "fluorite" as "flourite", at least if you were attempting to denote the colorful mineral named calcium fluoride. This has been a note from the Spelling Police.

 

i am truly sorry. sometimes things get by me.

 

flourite

 

tHere. Now, thAt's MorE oN pAr witH yOur arGumeNt.

 

(what was it again? well, we remember what we remember.)

[+currykev]

I think that posting the "cheaters" web page will have caused you more trouble than if you had ignored it.

[+flask]

I think that posting the "cheaters" web page will have caused you more trouble than if you had ignored it.

 

nah, it has the stink of death on it. posting here gave me a chance to figure out what i'm going to do about it.

[+sbell111]

well, sure, but the flourite moon carving will always fill the bucket sooner than a macrame bell lyre. you should try it sometime, if you have binoculars.

flask, you have accidentally misspelled the word "fluorite" as "flourite", at least if you were attempting to denote the colorful mineral named calcium fluoride. This has been a note from the Spelling Police.

 

i am truly sorry. sometimes things get by me.

 

flourite

 

tHere. Now, thAt's MorE oN pAr witH yOur arGumeNt.

 

(what was it again? well, we remember what we remember.)

I guess my point is that I don't understand why you make nonsensical posts when people are trying to rationally discuss issues that you claim are important to you, unless you are a troll.

[+flask]

well, sure, but the flourite moon carving will always fill the bucket sooner than a macrame bell lyre. you should try it sometime, if you have binoculars.

flask, you have accidentally misspelled the word "fluorite" as "flourite", at least if you were attempting to denote the colorful mineral named calcium fluoride. This has been a note from the Spelling Police.

 

i am truly sorry. sometimes things get by me.

 

flourite

 

tHere. Now, thAt's MorE oN pAr witH yOur arGumeNt.

 

(what was it again? well, we remember what we remember.)

I guess my point is that I don't understand why you make nonsensical posts when people are trying to rationally discuss issues that you claim are important to you, unless you are a troll.

 

i think what i was saying is that your discussion left the actual topic that i wanted to discuss a long time back.

 

by "rationally discuss", i assume you mean "engage in unskilled, petty, tired argument only tangentially related to the topic and practically a clone of the dozens of threads that devolve this way."

 

since you're no longer discussing the actual topic AND i've pretty much settled the issue for myself, i can't think of any reason to give your blathering any weight or dignity, other than to use it for the purpose of entertaining vinny.

 

the original topic as defined narrowly by me was important to me. your "rational discussion" of some other (barely related) topic holds no interest for me. if you would like to return to the original topic i might find it interesting, but i think there isn't much new ground to cover there anymore. you aren't covering much new ground, either.

 

i don't mind if you use my thread to grind your same old threadbare tune, but you'll excuse me from having to be interested in it.

 

so. there's your brass purse and stuffed duck.

 

oooh, look! a pinwheel!

[+sbell111]

I guess my point is that I don't understand why you make nonsensical posts when people are trying to rationally discuss issues that you claim are important to you, unless you are a troll.

i think what i was saying is that your discussion left the actual topic that i wanted to discuss a long time back.

 

by "rationally discuss", i assume you mean "engage in unskilled, petty, tired argument only tangentially related to the topic and practically a clone of the dozens of threads that devolve this way."

 

since you're no longer discussing the actual topic AND i've pretty much settled the issue for myself, i can't think of any reason to give your blathering any weight or dignity, other than to use it for the purpose of entertaining vinny.

 

the original topic as defined narrowly by me was important to me. your "rational discussion" of some other (barely related) topic holds no interest for me. if you would like to return to the original topic i might find it interesting, but i think there isn't much new ground to cover there anymore. you aren't covering much new ground, either.

 

i don't mind if you use my thread to grind your same old threadbare tune, but you'll excuse me from having to be interested in it.

 

so. there's your brass purse and stuffed duck.

 

oooh, look! a pinwheel!

I wasn't on topic? Really?

 

Please take a look at this recent post:

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

my neighbor's cat likes to come into my house in the afternoons and have a nap on my couch. use to be i'd pour her a little saucer of milk but then i stopped buying milk so even though she doesn't expect it anymore, i know that sometimes she'd really like a little something.

 

these days i don't see so much of her because it's winter and i don't use my back door on account of too much snow drifted there and not enough protection. not-my-cat doesn't really like having to use the front door, so while she comes and sits on my car roof and sometimes the front porch, she rarely asks to come in.

You will note that I am attempting to have a nice rational conversation about the topic and you and RK are posting off-topic jibberish. Edited March 3, 2009 by sbell111

[+flask]

You will note that I am attempting to have a nice rational conversation about the topic and you and RK are posting off-topic jibberish.

 

well, maybe "attempting" is the operative word.

 

every madman thinks he's rational.

 

i don't know what topic you were supposedly on, but it wasn't mine.

 

so you might as well take what's left of the carrots to the glebe lands and let the kumquat be.

[+sbell111]

The OP discussed archiving caches that showed up on a 'cheat' site. My post discussed the ramifications of such a decision. This is clearly on topic.

 

Edited March 3, 2009 by sbell111

[+Too Tall John]

It's funny, sbell111 seems to have a great talent for remembering past posts, except when the posts in question aren't convenient for him. I've managed to read numerous times about your reasons for not using caps, I find it hard to believe he's missed all of those posts.

A couple quick thoughts:

• We remember what we remember. Some things are not deemed important enough to stuff in the file cabinet, I suppose.
  
• I couldn't find a single reply in the linked thread related to capitalization.
  
• Regarding flask's habit of not using caps, it really matters not what the reason is. From the reader's point of view it's still somewhat irritating and difficult to read.
  
• My post was comprised of two separate thoughts.
  
• I still don't understand the last several posts made by RK and flask. It's like they are posting nonsensical jibberish rather than making honest attempts to discuss the issue that they claim is important to them.
  

• If you care to comment on issues you can't be bothered to "stuff in the file cabinet" it isn't my fault.
  
• The link wasn't about capitalization, it was demonstrating past examples of lack of memory for posts "aren't convenient" for you.
  
• Certain things seem to bother certain people. You are bothered by lack of caps. sorry.
  
• Yes, your post had 2 parts, I chose to ignore the personal attack on flask.
  
• I don't believe I will speak to flask & RK's posts' meanings.
  

[+sbell111]

It's funny, sbell111 seems to have a great talent for remembering past posts, except when the posts in question aren't convenient for him. I've managed to read numerous times about your reasons for not using caps, I find it hard to believe he's missed all of those posts.

A couple quick thoughts:

• We remember what we remember. Some things are not deemed important enough to stuff in the file cabinet, I suppose.
  
• I couldn't find a single reply in the linked thread related to capitalization.
  
• Regarding flask's habit of not using caps, it really matters not what the reason is. From the reader's point of view it's still somewhat irritating and difficult to read.
  
• My post was comprised of two separate thoughts.
  
• I still don't understand the last several posts made by RK and flask. It's like they are posting nonsensical jibberish rather than making honest attempts to discuss the issue that they claim is important to them.
  

• If you care to comment on issues you can't be bothered to "stuff in the file cabinet" it isn't my fault.
  
• The link wasn't about capitalization, it was demonstrating past examples of lack of memory for posts "aren't convenient" for you.
  
• Certain things seem to bother certain people. You are bothered by lack of caps. sorry.
  
• Yes, your post had 2 parts, I chose to ignore the personal attack on flask.
  
• I don't believe I will speak to flask & RK's posts' meanings.
  

I'm seriously supposed to remember everything that everyone has ever posted in any thread? Really? Isn't it OK that I don't remember some of the off-topic bits? Please???

 

Either way, flask admitted to trolling some ways back. I wasn't asking her anything. I was interested in RK's thoughts. He is generally quite willing to flesh out his opinion, even when it is unpopular, so I assumed that he'd be willing to further discuss his position.

 

I've got no clue why you are even commenting on these things.

[+Renegade Knight]

...But if you archive the cache because of those few people who 'cheated', the next ten people won't be able to find it your way. This would take away your pleasure and theirs without affecting those that would 'cheat' in any way.

 

Rather like ketchup in your ice cream? It's not the good part that spoils the anticipation and fun. Alas since I can't work around the non fun parts and since I'm in this for fun, it's easier to toss that cache and see if I can't get a better thing going next time around.

Huh? I seriously don't understand your reply. I have no clue whether you actually made an attempt to discuss my point, or not.

 

Actually I did, but we are looking at this from such different angles that I don't think we are anywhere near close enough to understand.

 

So I'll try another angle. When I create a cache I have an idea in mind for how it's supposed to work. If it works, great, the cache is a success and I enjoy the logs and owning the cache. If it doesn't work it's a failed experiment, and there is no fun in owning it. Finders can skew things one way or the other based on their internal "rules of play". If when setting up the cache I factered that in correctly it's going to work. If I didn't and they short circuit the cache, cheat on the puzzle or any thing else that shifts things to the "failed experiment" side of the equation the fun dries up and that's that.

 

My muse is variable. Different caches have different visions, ideas, themes, or however you want to think about it attached. Some are just boxes. Some are something more. Sometimes the something more works. Sometimes it doesn't. Even thought I'm willing to pull the plug on a cache that isn't any fun to own, part of my fun is figuring out the next cache so as time and life permit there will alwasy be another to see if it's going to work.

[+Renegade Knight]

If I did a standard puzzle I don't care if kids tag along, I don't care it 200 friends solve it together, it wouldn't bother me if a blind cacher had their sighted friend solve the visual element, and I don't care if they solve it via a method that I didn't ever envision. However if their solution is to phone a friend for the location which is skipping the puzzle. That's over the line.

How about couples that cache as a team, with just one shared account? He works an hour from home in one direction, and she works an hour from home in the opposite direction. If he solves a puzzle near her workplace, can she make the find at lunchtime using his coordinates? Or vice versa?

 

Personally, I'd be disappointed if someone didn't consider my puzzle interesting enough to solve, or even interesting enough to understand someone else's solution. I'd be disappointed if someone just found the cache using someone else's coordinates. But outraged? No, I don't think I'd be outraged.

 

We are all different. For me (and most actually) it's as simple as "when the cache stops being fun to own, I archive it". Where we are different is what that point is.

 

One example. 1 of the first dozen logs being the person who figured out the cache and the next 11 being the phone a friend network on a cache that I wanted to be an "a ha!" moment (unique hide, never seen in my area before, and which I haden't heard of elsewhere at the time) the cache failed the job that I had in mind. Phone a friend removed the "A Ha!" I was after in this case.

 

Another example. A brutal hard hide. I said as much. Cachers ripped up the area like a bear rooting for grubs. No fun there. I archived the cache, Big lesson learned though.

[+Renegade Knight]

...You will note that I am attempting to have a nice rational conversation about the topic and you and RK are posting off-topic jibberish.

 

Hey there. Just becaues you don't see the connection doesn't mean that there isn't one that I'm utterly failing at getting across. Sometimes more beer helps.

[+sbell111]

...You will note that I am attempting to have a nice rational conversation about the topic and you and RK are posting off-topic jibberish.

 

Hey there. Just becaues you don't see the connection doesn't mean that there isn't one that I'm utterly failing at getting across. Sometimes more beer helps.

You are correct. The fact that I didn't understand your reply combined with flask's wierd jibberjabber to give me the false belief that you were both trying to give me irrational jibberjabber. I apologize for filing your reply in the same bin as flask's.

 

Mea culpa.

[+flask]

 

Either way, flask admitted to trolling some ways back.

 

i think what i said was that if you consider stirring up a conversation about current events in order to sort out one's thoughts on the topic trolling, then i'm trolling.

 

since you're not very bright (possibly due to the fact that your meds are making you hazy, or at least that's the impression i'm getting from your posts), i'll explain this for you:

 

actual trolling is starting a topic just for the sake of creating a fuss. since it was the exchange of ideas in which i was interested and the opportunity to use the discussion as a sounding board by which to arrive at conclusions, i guess you can call it whatever you want. by your definition, anyone starting a thread is only trolling.

 

i have no idea why you're still talking about any of this, since i lost interest right after i had enough information to figure out what's what. i understood rk's post very clearly, though, which gives me a leg up on you.

 

"gibberish" is spelled with a "g" and since you seem to be hung up on what's relevant to the OP, i will tell you that as the Original Poster, i can't see that your trolling here has any more relevance to the Original Post than a ham sandwich does to a bar mitzvah.

 

this discussion had pretty much been dead for a while, but it amuses me greatly to see you continue to row with only the one oar.