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Why spoil the fun of placement for everyone?


PureCougar
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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

People enjoy finding, people enjoy hiding, people enjoy both. Do what you like and be THANKFUL for those who do what they like. I would be glad someone was hiding many caches in my area...as long as the caches appealed to me that is!

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

Be thankful you don't live in Minnesota, North Carolina or Utah. 74 isn't even a start.

 

Jim

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I usually stay off these forums because they can get nasty but I've had this discussion with many cachers and here is my 2 cents worth.

 

Many of us feel newbies (less than 100 finds) should experience the game before hiding, otherwise we see lots of poorly placed caches in inappropriate containers without creativity and bad coords. Learning and experience are helpful and so is a mentor but don't expect GC to do anything about it.

 

There is an unwritten rule I learned in California. 1-2% hide to find ratio is good Karma. Many experienced cachers are not hiding enough and way too many newbies are hiding too many.

 

Now, there are always exceptions to rules and I've seen this twice recently.

 

First, I know who you are referring to in WA. I recently did some of his caches and was pleased with the nice watertight containers and good placement in new parks. They were enjoyable.

 

Second, another newbie (less than 100 finds but caching for almost 5 years) has as many hides. Now, I have only found one of his and the cammo was very creative, so I plan on being surprised some more by his hides.

 

Now these are exceptions... and maybe they had a good mentor... but I waited until I had 500 finds before hiding caches. I wanted to feel like I knew what I was doing first since we are judged by our peers.

 

When you think you know what it's all about and you can bring pleasure to the game-go for it.

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...is this normal? Is this fair?...

 

This is a listing service and the geocaches listed here have to meet the listing requirements, that is the extent of fair. As far as normal - What is normal? is an ongoing theme in geocaching. B)

I believe that if the profile didn't highlight numbers then geocachers would be less likely to hide large numbers of repetitive hides, especially ones that need to be distinguished by numbering.

If you accept that it isn't about the numbers then your complaint seems to be that the placed geocaches block your placements or the placements of other geocachers. Every geocache blocks the area around the cache to additional placements, even the caches you prefer do that.

There is always a place to put "another" geocache.

Edited by wavector
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I used to have some of those feelings. Then I realized that I don't like to hide that many caches. The ones I have I put some thought into. People are generally entertained by the caches I place. Yes we have people in this area that have over 1000 hides. I don't mind because most of those people have caches that range in difficulty. If they were all hard caches then that would possibly create a problem for new folks.

 

If you have an idea for a really cool cache that would be too close to an active cache then email the owners. If they are approached in a respectful manor and you explained what your plans were I am sure they would work with you. If someone had a great idea for a cache in an area that I had one I would be OK with archiving it. Now they are not going to archive an average cache for a less than average cache so put some thought into it.

 

Yes I do try for the numbers but the quality ones are the ones that stick in my mind. I don't care who hid the caches that I find.

Edited by undertree
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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

PureCouger<

 

I looked at your profile and see that you are in my area, and I can only assume that you are talking about me in your post. My wife and I recently moved to this area, and I had some experience with me Cousin and would go along with him before I moved when he would go caching. I found out fairly quickly that I didn't really enjoy the frustration of finding them as I did the enjoyment of placing them for people to find. I saw that there were many spots in our area that could us some caches for folks to find, so I started placing them. One guy in particular loves finding my caches he has found almost ever single one and gets most of the ftf on them. I guess the way I look at it is this is a great sport and everyone has there particular area they like to excel in some like First to Finds, some like Mystery cahes, some like Multis, some like to find them, and some like to hide them. If I am doing something wrong and against the ethics of Geocaching I will stop right away, but so far from what I am reading in the responses I'm not seeing anything wrong with the fact that I only have 12 finds, and 75+ hides. Please someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here, and I will be dissapointed that I can't place anymore but I will stop.

 

By the way this is my fist post to this forum, so I apologize if I did something wrong.

 

Eric Tenders

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even the title of the thread bothers me.

 

someone who hides a lot of caches can hardly e said to be spoiling the fun of cache placement for everyone.

 

are you so bothered by someone hiding more than you think they should that it spoils your cache experience?

 

or is it that you're too unimaginative to find hiding spots that haven't already been chosen?

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

PureCouger<

 

I looked at your profile and see that you are in my area, and I can only assume that you are talking about me in your post. My wife and I recently moved to this area, and I had some experience with me Cousin and would go along with him before I moved when he would go caching. I found out fairly quickly that I didn't really enjoy the frustration of finding them as I did the enjoyment of placing them for people to find. I saw that there were many spots in our area that could us some caches for folks to find, so I started placing them. One guy in particular loves finding my caches he has found almost ever single one and gets most of the ftf on them. I guess the way I look at it is this is a great sport and everyone has there particular area they like to excel in some like First to Finds, some like Mystery cahes, some like Multis, some like to find them, and some like to hide them. If I am doing something wrong and against the ethics of Geocaching I will stop right away, but so far from what I am reading in the responses I'm not seeing anything wrong with the fact that I only have 12 finds, and 75+ hides. Please someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here, and I will be dissapointed that I can't place anymore but I will stop.

 

By the way this is my fist post to this forum, so I apologize if I did something wrong.

 

Eric Tenders

 

You didn't do anything wrong. Only thing I can see wrong with your hides is they are nearly all micros. But that is just me, I like smalls and regulars. When I was doing the Washington county challenge, and like most state county challenges micros don't count. So they get filtered out of the PQ's. Keep hiding ... but get some small lock'n'locks B)

 

Jim

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

PureCouger<

 

I looked at your profile and see that you are in my area, and I can only assume that you are talking about me in your post. My wife and I recently moved to this area, and I had some experience with me Cousin and would go along with him before I moved when he would go caching. I found out fairly quickly that I didn't really enjoy the frustration of finding them as I did the enjoyment of placing them for people to find. I saw that there were many spots in our area that could us some caches for folks to find, so I started placing them. One guy in particular loves finding my caches he has found almost ever single one and gets most of the ftf on them. I guess the way I look at it is this is a great sport and everyone has there particular area they like to excel in some like First to Finds, some like Mystery cahes, some like Multis, some like to find them, and some like to hide them. If I am doing something wrong and against the ethics of Geocaching I will stop right away, but so far from what I am reading in the responses I'm not seeing anything wrong with the fact that I only have 12 finds, and 75+ hides. Please someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here, and I will be dissapointed that I can't place anymore but I will stop.

 

By the way this is my fist post to this forum, so I apologize if I did something wrong.

 

Eric Tenders

 

You didn't do anything wrong. Only thing I can see wrong with your hides is they are nearly all micros. But that is just me, I like smalls and regulars. When I was doing the Washington county challenge, and like most state county challenges micros don't count. So they get filtered out of the PQ's. Keep hiding ... but get some small lock'n'locks B)

 

Jim

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for the coment you are right most are micros as my Cousin had a whole lot of Bisons that he gave me, cause his friend works at a supplier that makes them. but just a few days ago I hid my fist Ammo Can and I even had a $50 bill for the ftfer as it was a pretty good hike and challenging...... check it out on my hide list of caches.... so I'm getting there. But it's hard to turn down the new larger Bisons for .50 cents a piece.

 

E T

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I agree with most and ignore the ones trying to flame cuz nothing is good on tv at the moment.

 

With geocaching for the most part if you follow the rules and enjoy doing it then go for it.

 

I would only question the fact that after 70+ hides and only a couple of finds would possibly suggest the issue of what happens if this newer geocacher suddenly decides that geocaching is not what they really wanted to get into and now you have all these geocaches flapping in the wind with no one to maintain them. Not saying it is going to happen but the possibility is there. Something to think about

 

B)

 

-HHH :mad:

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Jim,

 

Thanks for the coment you are right most are micros as my Cousin had a whole lot of Bisons that he gave me, cause his friend works at a supplier that makes them. but just a few days ago I hid my fist Ammo Can and I even had a $50 bill for the ftfer as it was a pretty good hike and challenging...... check it out on my hide list of caches.... so I'm getting there. But it's hard to turn down the new larger Bisons for .50 cents a piece.

 

E T

Just my opinion, but... I think the size of the cache should be determined by the environment, not by what containers you happen to have handy.

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Second, another newbie (less than 100 finds but caching for almost 5 years) has as many hides. Now, I have only found one of his and the cammo was very creative, so I plan on being surprised some more by his hides.

 

 

I know this is a little off topic, but that statement made me wonder about something. It's a time vs. numbers question.

 

If you actively cache for five years, but only have around a 100 finds, does that still lable you as a Newb?

 

I guess, it is when are you no longer considered a Newb? Is there a certain number of finds, certain length of active caching time, or just when you don't feel like a newb anymore?

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When I started and had gotten to 10 I felt that it was time for me to

contribute and so I hid my first cache. Ever since , I have maintained

about 1 hide every 10 that I found. None are fantastic but all have

been found many times by cachers that seem to enjoy and appreciate

them.

The reality is that unless you are in an area that has very few caches you will not be able to maintain your hide to find ratio. And you shouldn't be worried about it. There is no shortage of caches in the World. There may be in your area at this time. If so, hide quality caches and add to the game.

 

I have been caching for a bit over five years and only have about a dozen hides. If I tried to maintain a 10 to 1 ratio I would have another 200 hides that I couldn't take care of and that would most likely be crummy hides just to keep my numbers up. I don't think that would be a good way to play the game.

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No one can spoil your fun without your permission.

 

(Apologizes to Eleanor Roosevelt.) :mad:

 

of course they can; don't be silly.

 

Sure, what if you are trying to geocache and some guy follows you everywhere with an air horn and sounds it every 5 seconds while stepping on your heels.

 

oh, i was SO hoping for some fun examples.

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No one can spoil your fun without your permission.

 

(Apologizes to Eleanor Roosevelt.) :mad:

of course they can; don't be silly.

 

Sure, what if you are trying to geocache and some guy follows you everywhere with an air horn and sounds it every 5 seconds while stepping on your heels.

 

But you have a choice. You can leave. You can go somewhere else. You can join in with his air horn.

 

The point is that YOU decide whether or not YOU are having fun. You control what you do and how it affects you.

 

No one can take that away without your permission.

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Well in Geocaching the old question of the chicken or the egg is easily answered... Dave Ulmer placed a cache before he ever found one and thank God he did...

 

I'm new to the sport and have already placed 4 to my 14 found.

 

Hiding and seeking are very different experiences, and I have to say I probably enjoy hiding and reading the logs people leave on my finds more then I do seeking others caches, and so far the hardcore cachers in my area have enjoyed my hides.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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well, if i'm minding my own business and you whack me upside the head with a two-by-four, am i supposed to take responsibility for the fact that i am no longer having fun? or can i rightly consider that you have spoiled my afternoon's fun?

 

is it a failing of MINE if i "decide" i'm not having fun? have i necessarily granted permission for you to given me a concussion? or perhaps maybe only nobody can give you a concussion without your permission?

 

"it does not matter", i will say to myself, "that i am now bleeding from the side of my head. i control whether or not i am concussed. only I can decide whether or not i am still having fun. i REFUSE to give permission for my fun to be abbreviated. i will go bleed somewhere else and then i will still be having fun. or else i will join in beating myself about the head with a two-by-four, but by golly, no one can take my fun away from me."

 

 

on a lighter note, i was once accosted while looking for a cache. i required police assistance. i went into the woods with the intention of having fun. did i necessarily grant permission for my fun to be spoiled by a stranger who meant to do me harm? at the time i didn't feel like i had a whole lot of control over whether or not my caching day was going to coincide with something like that.

 

 

you aren't seriously going to try to pin the responsibility for my sudden loss of fun on me? i'm pretty sure that guy took away my control of whether or not i was having fun without my permission.

 

oh, wait. i should have taken your advice.

 

"i can just go somewhere else. i can join in with HIS fun."

 

yeah. i'd have liked to have just gone somewhere else. as for joining in on HIS fun, that just makes me shudder.

 

 

but no one can take away my fun without my permission.

 

so it had to have been my fault it wasn't any fun for me. only i could have controlled that.

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well, if i'm minding my own business and you whack me upside the head with a two-by-four, am i supposed to take responsibility for the fact that i am no longer having fun? or can i rightly consider that you have spoiled my afternoon's fun?

 

is it a failing of MINE if i "decide" i'm not having fun? have i necessarily granted permission for you to given me a concussion? or perhaps maybe only nobody can give you a concussion without your permission?

 

"it does not matter", i will say to myself, "that i am now bleeding from the side of my head. i control whether or not i am concussed. only I can decide whether or not i am still having fun. i REFUSE to give permission for my fun to be abbreviated. i will go bleed somewhere else and then i will still be having fun. or else i will join in beating myself about the head with a two-by-four, but by golly, no one can take my fun away from me."

 

 

on a lighter note, i was once accosted while looking for a cache. i required police assistance. i went into the woods with the intention of having fun. did i necessarily grant permission for my fun to be spoiled by a stranger who meant to do me harm? at the time i didn't feel like i had a whole lot of control over whether or not my caching day was going to coincide with something like that.

 

 

you aren't seriously going to try to pin the responsibility for my sudden loss of fun on me? i'm pretty sure that guy took away my control of whether or not i was having fun without my permission.

 

oh, wait. i should have taken your advice.

 

"i can just go somewhere else. i can join in with HIS fun."

 

yeah. i'd have liked to have just gone somewhere else. as for joining in on HIS fun, that just makes me shudder.

 

 

but no one can take away my fun without my permission.

 

so it had to have been my fault it wasn't any fun for me. only i could have controlled that.

You know I'm trying to watch this thread as the original poster had posted and it seems you guys keep trying to take it OFF TOPIC why don't you stay on topic or move your topic somewhere else really it has nothing to do with the original posters question. Now we are talking about getting beat up in the woods. :mad:

 

SS

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You know I'm trying to watch this thread as the original poster had posted and it seems you guys keep trying to take it OFF TOPIC why don't you stay on topic or move your topic somewhere else really it has nothing to do with the original posters question. Now we are talking about getting beat up in the woods. :mad:

 

SS

 

Geesh, didn't think this would become such a controversial topic. All I wanted to know is was it okay, normal, etc. to place one in every neighborhood park. One of the placements happens to be my childhood park. I have such fond memories there. *sigh* To be a kid again, kind of how it feels to geocache. Except when you run into muggles, or disgusting lover's trash. Gross! Hope my childhood park doesn't have that problem. That would ruin my experience.

 

After looking at some other people's profiles I did find another with an almost one to one, hide to seek ratio: GooTech. So I guess I'm the one that's not normal.

Edited by PureCougar
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My feelings om this as a beginning cacher...

 

As long as the hides are considered and well thought out I'd say that there is nothing wrong with it. If the hider was just sticking a micro in every nook and cranny he could get approved, then maybe the OP has a point. I have mixed feelings, but that's just because I'm not much of an urban cacher. I don t care much for micro's magneted onto anything that one will stick to just because it can be done. My list of waypoints on my eTrex right now are mostly rated by me, generally after reading the logs and deciding if there is some ingenuity that went into the hide. I look for ones where I don't have to spend more time dodging muggles than I do actually searching. But that's just my preference. If someone likes that sort of hide good for them, but there still should be something more interesting or clever than just slapping a key holder on a "No Parking" sign. :mad:

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No one can spoil your fun without your permission.

 

I don't like sound bites, when they are wrong they are simply inane statements that mean nothing. This is one of those sound bites that means absolutley nothing, it is a platitude that has no meaning.

Not having fun can be the direct result of actions taken by other geocachers, this is true for every geocache you seek and every geocache you place.

Spoilers in the cache logs are one simple way that your fun can be ruined. Having a park closed to geocaching because of the actions of another geocacher is another example. Go ahead and plaster that grin on your face but don't expect that it is going to remove the spoiler or soothe a land manager. There are many good examples and it shouldn't even be necessary to point them out, a moments thought provides plenty.

 

Attitude plays a part in our geocaching adventures, the OP in this thread has an attitude issue, intended or not he has had a definite impact on the fun being had by another geocacher.

Eric didn't do anything wrong but I am not about to plaster a sh-t eating grin on my face and blame him for not having fun while someone identifies him in a public forum and asks if he is "normal" in his approach to geocaching.

Eric isn't to blame for the OP's attitude but I don't expect the OP to go out and find caches that he does not enjoy, I don't expect the OP to start enjoying micros hidden in parks, that is unrealistic.

 

The OP has found less than 20 caches, Eric has found around about the same. Suggesting that Eric should just adjust his attitude simply disregards the fact that his hides are being disparaged publicy. Telling the OP that his complaint is an attiude issue ignores the obvious fact that all the parks near his home location contain a micro hidden by Eric, that isn't an attiude, it is reality. There is a cache that is called "Eric must have missed this park" or something similar, this should give you an idea of the saturation near the OP"s home coordinates.

The OP needs to get over it, if a cache meets the listing requirements then it is listed. Eric needs to understand that there are unhappy people and that the steady stream of micros he is placing may not always be appreciated by everyone.

Both of them need to review the basics - make sure that your activity does not negatively impact the fun that others take in this activity. This advice ignores the platitude you provided in that it assumes we can all impact others easily, sometimes without even being aware of that impact, witness this thread.

 

What neither of them needs to do is imagine that the platitude you provided has any basis in reality, it doesn't and even a cursory reflection reveals that it is devoid of meaning.

Edited by wavector
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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

PureCouger<

 

I looked at your profile and see that you are in my area, and I can only assume that you are talking about me in your post. My wife and I recently moved to this area, and I had some experience with me Cousin and would go along with him before I moved when he would go caching. I found out fairly quickly that I didn't really enjoy the frustration of finding them as I did the enjoyment of placing them for people to find. I saw that there were many spots in our area that could us some caches for folks to find, so I started placing them. One guy in particular loves finding my caches he has found almost ever single one and gets most of the ftf on them. I guess the way I look at it is this is a great sport and everyone has there particular area they like to excel in some like First to Finds, some like Mystery cahes, some like Multis, some like to find them, and some like to hide them. If I am doing something wrong and against the ethics of Geocaching I will stop right away, but so far from what I am reading in the responses I'm not seeing anything wrong with the fact that I only have 12 finds, and 75+ hides. Please someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here, and I will be dissapointed that I can't place anymore but I will stop.

 

By the way this is my fist post to this forum, so I apologize if I did something wrong.

 

Eric Tenders

I have two points I'd like to make. The first is for PureCouger. The point is that I used to sometimes feel resentful that all the "good" spots were already taken and I wanted to make a small contribution to the sport. It finally dawned on me that there was no way every decent spot was already taken and since I'd been focussing on public parks I needed to expand my horizons a bit. So I thought to myself where can I get permission from a private landowner to place a cache? The answer I came up with (and I'm sure there are lots of others too) was to check out the local churches. There's no better location than one which would love to have visitors and a church is a logical place. I found a church with some decent land that I thought would be good for a hide and contacted the pastor. He was tickled by the idea of geocachers coming to the churches property and who knows maybe even dropping by to attend a service if they wanted. My first church cache will be published in the next 24 hours. Another idea would be to contact retail business owners. When contacting a business owner you may want to volunteer to list it as being no caching at night so they don't have to worry strangers lurking around their business after dark. They also would love to have people discover their businesses while making a cache find. Of course it's crucial to get permission from landowners and abide by all gc.com rules relating to caches at businesses. :mad:

 

My point for Eric Tenders is to say thank you for placing a lot of geocaches. I'd like to do my share for the sport, but hiding caches is just not something I'm good at so I have to find alternate ways to contribute. Yes, I could place 100 lame caches, but I feel I should make sure I am contributing to the sport and not flooding the area with lame hides. Thankfully in my area there are lots of geocachers who are very prolific in hiding quality caches so I have lots of fun caches to find. I'm sure you're making up for some cachers in your area who like me are just not into the hider mindset. If we all do what we're best at and enjoy I'm sure it will all balance out in the long run! :o

Edited by Michigan Cacheman
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No one can spoil your fun without your permission.

 

I don't like sound bites, when they are wrong they are simply inane statements that mean nothing. This is one of those sound bites that means absolutley nothing, it is a platitude that has no meaning.

Not having fun can be the direct result of actions taken by other geocachers, this is true for every geocache you seek and every geocache you place. ... snip

Well, I would completely disagree with your assessment of my comment.

 

Someone placing caches that you don't care for all over the place cannot spoil your fun unless you let it. Find ones that you do like. Go places you do like. It's pretty simple. I might not like to look for caches under light pole skirts, but someone placing one on every block won't affect me in any way shape or form.

 

It doesn't affect my ENJOYMENT of what I'M doing. It doesn't "spoil the fun for everyone" which is what the OP queried. No one's actions can do that because I'm in control of how I feel about it.

 

And I'm also not saying that the OP is in anyway not justified in feeling how they feel. But everyone has to take responsibility for their own feelings.

 

A few months ago there was a thread started bemoaning the fact that a certain cacher or cachers were "spoiling it" for him and his son because the were getting the FTF on all the caches near him. He was LETTING it spoil his fun. Through that thread, he was able to see the situation from some different perspectives and altered the way that the was feeling.

 

No one can make you feel any way without your permission. You have control over how you feel.

Edited by Motorcycle_Mama
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No one can make you feel any way without your permission. You have control over how you feel.

 

Are you reading the stuff you write? :mad:

On the face of it it is ridiculous, is this not obvious to you?

When someone steals your geocache and you feel bad about that you are not responding incorrectly by feeling bad and the way you feel is a direct result of the actions of another geocacher.

Your soundbite is wrong.

 

This thread is a case in point, the issue between these two neighbours is real.

One has made public comments about the caches hidden by another.

Telling them to have fun isn't helpful, the soundbite doesn't offer any advice beyond "those who complain shouldn't".

 

Every geocacher should be aware that their actions can impact other seekers, accepting and realizing this is important.

 

It is a good thing the OP made his post before hearing your soundbite or Eric might have never realized that his steady stream of microcaches in every local park was not appreciated by everyone. The OP now knows that Eric wasn't trying to have a negative impact and understands the circumstances behind all the micros. By assessing the needs and statements of a neighbour they have both benefited. They are now both aware of the impact they can have on other geocachers by actions that are not carefully thought out, the OP even said he never meant to cause controversy.

 

I can see that they have common ground and if the OP really wanted to celebrate his childhood memories by placing a cache in a specific park I think they could work it out and that could happen because they discussed issues and made their grievances known, not because they subscribed to your soundbite where every problem they encountered could be overcome with a little personal adjustment to the grin they kept plastered on their faces.

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No one can make you feel any way without your permission. You have control over how you feel.

 

oh?

 

if i am run over on the road, am i to blame if i'm not happy about it?

 

yes.

 

after all, i have control of how i feel.

 

if somebody gets ugly and threatens to kill me while i'm out, is it my fault if i'm not having fun?

 

yes.

 

after all, i have control of how i feel.

 

if an unlicensed driver turns left into me, destroying my car and injuring me, will i carry your criticism if i'm upset?

 

yes.

 

after all, i have total control of how i feel.

 

maybe i shouldn't let these things bother me. if i had a cheerier, sunnier disposition little things like this wouldn't spoil my fun.

 

after all, no one can spoil my fun without my permission. i'm just going to have to start feeling happier when these things happen. i am so lucky to have you instruct me on how to feel; for a while there i thought how i felt might have something to do with circumstance, but now i know better.

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I'm not criticizing anyone, so no, you would not get my criticism and I never said anyone was at fault.

 

But if I get run over on the road, I absolutely am in control of how I feel about it.

 

A positive attitude goes a long way toward speedy recovery.

 

So be angry if you want, but I don't hold on to anger. There's no sense in it and it doesn't help anything.

 

I, for one, will seek to find the positive in the situation rather that dwelling on the negative.

 

But to each his own. Being upset and angry is completely within your control. Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about you.

 

Again, you decide for yourself.

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The issue of who's fault it is if you're not having fun is a little advanced for a getting started topic. Over in the general forum we get lots of posting about how the way someone is geocaching is spoiling everyone else's fun. There are two side to almost every argument over there. Those who say if you're not having fun then it's your fault and those who agree that too many micros are ruining geocaching.

 

The OP made a big mistake by titling this thread as he did. If he simply asked whether people should have a certain hide/find ratio or shouldn't hide caches until they have a certain number of finds we could've of discussed it. We would see that there are many opinions about this but that most people feel there shouldn't be any rules or even guidelines. Some people enjoy hiding caches more than finding them and some people don't care to hide any. It all balances out in the end.

 

There are people here who believe that the OP is not enjoying caching because a local hider has placed a lot of similar caches. There are other people who believe the OP's comment was made because of a misconception about how the game should be played. The comment about be not being able to spoil your fun without permission was likely mean to mean that you can still have fun geocaching even if you have a local putting out a lot of hides you don't particularly enjoy. You learn to ignore hides by a certain hider, you discover who is hiding caches that you enjoy finding, you learn to read the logs and select the kinds of cache you are more likely to enjoy, you learn that you do not have to find every single cache, and you realize that not every single cache you find will be all that great. Eleanor Roosevelt's quote was actually "No one can make you feel inferior without your permission." Of course nobody ever told her that she had too few finds to hide a cache <_<

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I'm not criticizing anyone, so no, you would not get my criticism and I never said anyone was at fault.

 

But if I get run over on the road, I absolutely am in control of how I feel about it.

 

A positive attitude goes a long way toward speedy recovery.

 

So be angry if you want, but I don't hold on to anger. There's no sense in it and it doesn't help anything.

 

I, for one, will seek to find the positive in the situation rather that dwelling on the negative.

 

But to each his own. Being upset and angry is completely within your control. Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about you.

 

Again, you decide for yourself.

 

it's new age self-help claptrap.

 

at some point to insist that the fun only stops if you give it permission to stop is not just naive, but at total odds with half of the human experience.

 

regardless of whether you forgive a thing or whether you carry resentment about it, your fun stops at some point in the kind of day in which bad things happen. you can have a positive outlook and also recognize that the situation in which you have been put is not fun whether or not you gave permission for the storm, assault, accident, insult or injury to happen.

 

if you are in total control of how you feel, there is nothing to forgive and nothing to recover from, because you have by the sheer force of your unyielding cheerfulness negated the possibility that anything isn't acceptable. if your state of pleasure regardless of circumstance is uniform and unchanging, there is no point in doing anything, because nothing can have the potential to please or displease you.

 

if your mental state is solely and completely controlled by how you would prefer to feel, you have ceased to feel anything worthwhile.

 

if you are run over and you are overcome with your delight at the cheerful interior of the ambulance and the spiffy way the driver behind you went about his business without bothering to help, i will submit perhaps the suggestion that you are not competent.

 

i have always understood that repressing appropriate emotions just isn't good for people, and that a pathological inability or refusal to feel or express anger or sadness where they are appropriate is not a thing to be desired or sought after.

 

at least that's the way they try to explain it to the frequent flyers up on the psych ward.

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Sure, what if you are trying to geocache and some guy follows you everywhere with an air horn and sounds it every 5 seconds while stepping on your heels.

 

Brian,

You have been asked to stop doing that several times now. Haven't you gotten the restraining order yet?

 

To OP: I hide the number of caches that I think I can maintain. I have not had any problem finding spots that I like for my caches. Unmaintained and unmaintainable caches tend to get archived quickly. If not, find someplace else to hide your caches.

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

Be thankful you don't live in Minnesota, North Carolina or Utah. 74 isn't even a start.

 

Jim

Ah, come on now...I rather enjoy many of those caches!!!

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I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

 

Be thankful you don't live in Minnesota, North Carolina or Utah. 74 isn't even a start.

 

Jim

Ah, come on now...I rather enjoy many of those caches!!!

 

I didn't say or was implying they are bad caches, just that 74 is barely starting on hiding caches. Good grief, they probably have at least that many archived caches apiece.

 

Jim

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well, if i'm minding my own business and you whack me upside the head with a two-by-four, am i supposed to take responsibility for the fact that i am no longer having fun? or can i rightly consider that you have spoiled my afternoon's fun? ...

 

Everthing in your life save one thing can be taken from you. That one thing is what they are talking about.

 

Or in bumper sticker form. "Life is 10% what you make it and 90% how you take it." That 90% part includes 2x4's up side the head.

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Or in bumper sticker form. "Life is 10% what you make it and 90% how you take it." That 90% part includes 2x4's up side the head.

 

hogwash.

 

or more accurately, new-age self-help hogwash. perhaps you have taken too many 2x4s to the head to realize that anything but cheerful enjoyment is normal.

 

this popular psychobabble wherein we ought to accept happily unpleasant or harmful circumstances serves no useful purpose, and rather creates an atmosphere in which people who are rightly upset for legitimate reasons get blamed for being upset.

 

every time i get loaded into an ambulance the rescue squad always comments on my terrific sense of humor and my sunny disposition.

 

and yet i always have the mental capacity to realize that i am not in fact having any fun. my fun has been taken away from me by circumstance. my sense of humor has not.

 

if i WERE perceiving my circumstance as being fun, they'd have me right up on smith 4 and they'd be trying to explain to me the concept of matching one's feelings about a situation to the situation at hand. as a rule they do not try to convince the patients that only their attitude stands between them and having fun.

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Or in bumper sticker form. "Life is 10% what you make it and 90% how you take it." That 90% part includes 2x4's up side the head.

 

hogwash.

 

or more accurately, new-age self-help hogwash. perhaps you have taken too many 2x4s to the head to realize that anything but cheerful enjoyment is normal.

 

this popular psychobabble wherein we ought to accept happily unpleasant or harmful circumstances serves no useful purpose, and rather creates an atmosphere in which people who are rightly upset for legitimate reasons get blamed for being upset.

 

every time i get loaded into an ambulance the rescue squad always comments on my terrific sense of humor and my sunny disposition.

 

and yet i always have the mental capacity to realize that i am not in fact having any fun. my fun has been taken away from me by circumstance. my sense of humor has not.

 

if i WERE perceiving my circumstance as being fun, they'd have me right up on smith 4 and they'd be trying to explain to me the concept of matching one's feelings about a situation to the situation at hand. as a rule they do not try to convince the patients that only their attitude stands between them and having fun.

 

 

I agree with flask on this one. Must we all be like the Stepford Wives these days? Sometimes you just gotta vent and it's OK to do it! Of course, we all will end up laughing about it later. :laughing:
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Being new to geocaching, I have only scratched the surface of the available caches in my area. There are over 1.000 caches within ten miles of my home. I would expect that someone who has been at this game for an extended period of time would naturally have a completely different viewpoint than a relative newcomer.

At only 70 finds, I've already begun to get bored with some of the simple caches, especially micros, and been taunted by some of the tough ones. I've seen a lot of traditional caches that produced all the joy of a soggy tuna sandwich, (with wet contents and no maintenance) and some really interesting ones with really unique containers and/or placements, that are also well maintained. Some are grouped by themes, and have very interesting clues, features and conditions. Some are just another boring box in the woods, place simply because a spot exists to place one.

I think they all have their place in the game. If my first finds were of the tough ones I've run into, I probably would have been discouraged, and not have gotten involved so quickly, or so enthusiastically. Now I'm beggining to like the challenge of the tougher finds. I can see where the super easy caches are good for someone who has limitations. A small child, elderly or handicapped person could not enjoy the game without them.

I have noticed that some players in our area are very prolific hiders, and others lean toward finding caches. If there is a shortage of caches in your area, then maybe it is fair to give back by hiding some good caches. Our area is cache rich. So I spend my time mostly hunting. I do try to help with fixing caches that need a log sheet, or need to be dried out from condensation etc. Maybe I toss a pencil into a cache that is without one. My point being, that everyone plays their part, and somehow it's all managed to work out. We (newbs) have the benefit of getting started with a whole selection of caches for any taste already in place.

As for saturation of an area . . . I can see where a player can overdue it, and leave no good areas for others to hide caches. The fact that a 500' spacing limit exists is proof of that. So how do you make it fair and fun for all? The solution is already being discussed in another thread. Some members are suggesting a rating system for caches.

If there was a rating system for caches, it would help to weed out the various caches to create a balance of cache types and grades for a given area. This could include cache type, size, overall quality, maintenance rating and other factors. Then you could go one step further, and create a system to challenge a cache for the right to occupy a location. Why waste a spot with great potential on just another weak micro, or poorly maintained cache, when a quality cache location is being blocked by a mediocre cache's presence. There is fast approaching a time when the density of cache placement is going to become too cumbersome to add any new caches. Not to mention the fact that some of these caches have been around for years, and may have been abandoned. Owners drop out, and they fall into disrepair. At that point, it would be prudent to evaluate the given area based on challenge for location, (perhaps by placing both caches temporarily) and let the rating score of the caches decide which one stays.

Some areas just plain lend themselves to a good micro. But other places are fertile space for a good full size cache, and they are being wasted on a not so good micro. I've also seen the opposite, where a full size cache is placed in an area that just begs to be discovered and destroyed by muggles. A good small or micro would be much better there perhaps. A rating system would ferrit these problem caches out. The opinion of many would simply rule, thereby making the entire system much better.

This could also serve as a learning tool for new players. If they (we) place a poor cache, the players will let them know by the votes they get. The feedback of a well placed and smartly designed cache will encourage better and better caches. It will also descourage those who like to hide caches, but are just plain unimaginative, and lack the potential to create quality caches. Perhaps we can still love the players, but encourage them to be seekers, rather than hiders. I personally don't know which category I fit into yet.

I've only placed one cache to date. I want to see how that one does before I start looking for more locations. I don't want to become known for run of the mill caches. The one that I placed rounds out a group of three caches spread accross an entire park. It offers some originality, as well as some challenge. The clues are obvious when you get to GZ, if you follow the directions and avoid the pitfalls. But most people should have no problem finding it once they go about it the way it is described. Anyone who simply follows the GPSr, is likely to have a dickens of a time with it however. They will find themselves on the wrong side of a fairlly large stream with steep banks, and/or mired in some of the worst briar and weeds that Maryland has to offer. I took some time thinking this cache through. The logs will tell me if I was right or not. It would be great to have a rating system to gauge my success though.

As far as I'm concerned, I love the fact that there are no hard fast rules to the game. Everyone should do what they enjoy. But each of us needs a touchstone at times to let us know if what we do is worth doing.

 

With all due respect,

Seeker Knight

 

I'm looking through my hometown area's caches. There is one cacher who has hidden 74 caches. The majority in my city are micros hidden in parks. Additionally, he has only found 12 caches.

 

My question to you all - is this normal? Is this fair? How does geocaching.com make the rules with placements. It seems to me that all he is doing is placing and not finding. I've found 15 caches with nary a placement. I want to get the feel for where I'm going to do it, and the why.

 

Guess I'm venting a little, but what do you think?

 

PureCougar

Edited by Seeker_Knight
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