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Garmin Oregon 2.86 Beta

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Change History

Changes made from version 2.85 to 2.86:

 

* Please report any problems with beta software to OregonBeta@garmin.com.

* Added distance and bearing to point when reviewing a Custom POI

* Improved map panning and zooming when shaded relief is turned on

* Improved GPS performance at slow speeds in tree cover

* Improved Custom POI database organization

* Improved Custom POI spell search

* Fixed possible shutdown when reviewing a Tide or Current Point using Where To?

* Fixed possible shutdown when searching for an address and selecting Search All cities

 

http://www.garmin.com/software/Oregon400t_286Beta.exe

 

http://www.gpsfix.net/?p=367

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Wow. They seemed focused on the Oregon. That is a good thing.

 

Think I will wait a bit on this one. 2.85 is working fine for me.

 

Sure wish they would update the Wherigo player.

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The custom POI bug with a single GPX file has been fixed, but a new bug has been introduced. As a workaround for the single GPX bug, I created two GPX files; Address Book.gpx and Local.gpx. They are both in the same folder. When I use the POI loader on these two files I see three buttons when doing Where To? -> Custom POI; "All Databases", "Address Book" and "Local". If I select "All Databases", it does the hourglass and then comes back saying it can't find anything. The other two work fine.

 

JetSkier

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Getting vastly improved accuracy and getting EGNOS outside my house which I never got on my Oregon before (my 60CSx always locked really quick there).

 

I only ever had 2 EGNOS locks on bird #33, never on #37 until now.

 

It seems the GPS rev update has made quite a difference for me at least.

 

Regards,

 

-Andy

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New bug in 2.86 ... at least I don't think it was there in 2.85.

 

If you scroll the map and release your finger over top of the +, - or the button at the top, then the map only pans what was previously visible and does not fill in what was scrolled from off the screen.

 

JetSkier

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New bug in 2.86 ... at least I don't think it was there in 2.85.

 

If you scroll the map and release your finger over top of the +, - or the button at the top, then the map only pans what was previously visible and does not fill in what was scrolled from off the screen.

 

JetSkier

 

I tried it in 2.85 and to me it seems to act the same way as you describe in 2.86. I do see what you mean, but never paid attention to it before. Guess that part of the screen is isolated so the buttons will work as planned.

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observations so far: purely anecdotal

 

1) I finally pick up and hold WAAS!! (#48-full green bar). First time I've seen WAAS on my Oregon.

 

2) Screen redraws seem a bit slower than with version 2.85.

 

3) The "improvement" to screen redraws with terrain shading enabled seem to only be that the background is now skin-color when you zoom out instead of white like before.

 

4) Improvements to the organization of Custom POI's are nice. Very welcome.

 

I'm glad to see the WAAS is fixed(?), perhaps the biggest improvement in this "update". My unit has been on and tracking for more than two hours (in my kitchen) and I observed a maximum of 20 ft deviation in my track. Seems much more stable. What we need now is a track comparison! :D

Edited by yogazoo

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After an evening of testing and observing the Oregons positioning I have to say that I have never seen the position calculation this stable! after three hours this morning in a stationary position in my office it read only 2 seconds of movement and 3 hours of stopped time. Again no more than 20 feet of deviation on my track (again this was indoors with decent sat pickup). Is anyone else seeing a vast improvement in position calculation? Could we finally be realizing the technological advantages of the Cartesio chipset?

 

I can't wait to get out and do a track comparison with a 60CSX!

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OK, so "Whereto".."custom POI" now has a "All databases" folder..I think that's new for this update?. Click on it and it has the "no results found" found even though I do have multiple POI databases on the unit, all of which do display correctly when you enter their respective folders.

 

334.gif

 

edit: ooops, i see this was already raised in an earlier post.. anyway, confirmed and sent bug to the betagarmin email address.

Edited by Maingray

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Yes, the accuracy has improved with this new GPS software version! I got accuracy of 2 meters (6 feet), when before it was in the range of 5-6 meters.

 

10hm2b8.jpg

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Yes, the accuracy has improved with this new GPS software version! I got accuracy of 2 meters (6 feet), when before it was in the range of 5-6 meters.

 

 

Accuracy needs additional testing and comparing results with reference devices and/or well known reference points. It could be some kind of accuracy "improvement" by writing into code "accuracyEstimation--" :D

 

For verfification I'll visit some reference points and check how it working now. First impression is very good.

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With all due respect vinnemon, the calculated accuracy figures are limited in their meaning and usefullness. The equation used to calculate accuracy is subjective. What really gets to the issue of accuracy is position calculation. The accuracy number may or may not be indicative of the better position calculation that is appearant here. In other words, you might be right, the better accuracy numbers on the unit itself may reflect the appearant improved positional accuracy, but not necessarily.

 

More of the question of accuracy would be addressed by collecting some data. It would be helpful to turn the unit on and place it in a stationary position for a period of time to see how much variability in the position calculation there is. One way to do this is to turn the track on, reset the trip times (stopped and moving) and observe. A benchmnark test would be another good one. Also, a track comparison with other known accurate units with some variable conditions such as tree cover, hilly terrain, and sinuosity would be great.

 

I plan to grab my buddies 60CSX and run a comparison tonight on some trails behind my house. I'll post the results.

Edited by yogazoo

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With all due respect vinnemon, the calculated accuracy figures are limited in their meaning and usefullness. The equation used to calculate accuracy is subjective. What really gets to the issue of accuracy is position calculation. The accuracy number may or may not be indicative of the better position calculation that is appearant here. In other words, you might be right, the better accuracy numbers on the unit itself may reflect the appearant improved positional accuracy, but not necessarily.

 

More of the question of accuracy would be addressed by collecting some data. It would be helpful to turn the unit on and place it in a stationary position for a period of time to see how much variability in the position calculation there is. One way to do this is to turn the track on, reset the trip times (stopped and moving) and observe. A benchmnark test would be another good one. Also, a track comparison with other known accurate units with some variable conditions such as tree cover, hilly terrain, and sinuosity would be great.

 

I plan to grab my buddies 60CSX and run a comparison tonight on some trails behind my house. I'll post the results.

 

Well yeah, I know, that was just a single observation. :D

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Tried it and returned to 2.85.

 

Very slow loading maps while panning and zooming!

 

Which maps? GB Discoverer?

 

Yes, Discoverer.

 

It loads the autorouting maps [much quicker] but then it takes 2 seconds for the OS maps to appear!

 

If you change zoom levels then 2.86 is quick as the discoverer only appears after you finish the zooming or panning.

 

I have re-installed 2.86 :D

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Made the plunge. So far so good.

 

What are the WAAS bird #'s? I am showing lots of "D"'s on the regular dishes.

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I know that #51 and #48 are both WAAS. Not sure if there are any others for North America.

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I noticed what appears to me to be an additional improvement to the 2.86 Beta firmware/software upgrade.

 

I have a 300 and I use a program for my Mac (Ascent) to plot out an elevation graph of a track. It works quite well and appears to be reasonably accurate. In any case, if I wanted to stop the tracking for a period of time, I would go to System>GPS Normal>Demo Mode. When I wanted to continue tracking, I would reverse the procedure. However, on the elevation graph there was always a jag in the graph when I changed the GPS Mode. With 2.86 the jag is gone and the graph is smooth. Nice.

Edited by Barrikady

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Barrikady, did you ever try this on 2.85? There was an fix around track logging and Demo mode mentioned in that release:

 

# Fixed track logging setting being changed when changing profiles while simulating GPS

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Getting vastly improved accuracy and getting EGNOS outside my house which I never got on my Oregon before (my 60CSx always locked really quick there).

 

I only ever had 2 EGNOS locks on bird #33, never on #37 until now.

 

It seems the GPS rev update has made quite a difference for me at least.

 

Regards,

 

-Andy

Put in 2.86 today. Went to a place with good reception. Got 2m on accurancy at best. But no WAAS/EGNOS. It was listening for #33, #37 and #39 but no EGNOS info seemed to be processed. My good ole MAP60CS on the other hand locked in on #33 and displayed the D on most of the birds fairly quick.

 

I am testing right now and I see a good signal on #33, but no D's. Now going for #37, no signal. And #38 and #39 and #40. No good. Back to #33, good signal. Accurancy improved but still no D's.

 

If this improves I will report back

 

Oslo, Norway

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Barrikady, did you ever try this on 2.85? There was an fix around track logging and Demo mode mentioned in that release:

 

# Fixed track logging setting being changed when changing profiles while simulating GPS

Hi g-o-cashers,

 

I have used Ascent with every release of the Garmin Oregon software upgrades, including 2.85.

 

2.86 is the first release to show a smooth graph at the point where I switch from Normal to Demo and back again.

 

If you like I can send you jpg's of a couple of graphs done on 2.85 and 2.86

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Getting vastly improved accuracy and getting EGNOS outside my house which I never got on my Oregon before (my 60CSx always locked really quick there).

 

I only ever had 2 EGNOS locks on bird #33, never on #37 until now.

 

It seems the GPS rev update has made quite a difference for me at least.

 

Regards,

 

-Andy

Put in 2.86 today. Went to a place with good reception. Got 2m on accurancy at best. But no WAAS/EGNOS. It was listening for #33, #37 and #39 but no EGNOS info seemed to be processed. My good ole MAP60CS on the other hand locked in on #33 and displayed the D on most of the birds fairly quick.

 

I am testing right now and I see a good signal on #33, but no D's. Now going for #37, no signal. And #38 and #39 and #40. No good. Back to #33, good signal. Accurancy improved but still no D's.

 

If this improves I will report back

 

Oslo, Norway

I tried WAAS with 2.86, and to my surprise I noticed D's on many of the satellites. 2.86 is the first release where I have ever seen a D on the satellite signal chart.

Edited by Barrikady

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It seems that EGNOS still is in test mode most of the time (so I have heared) and OR just rejects the packages with the test bit on as oposed to the MAP60CS.

Thus no D's on the OR.

 

I don't know this for a fact, but it sounds plausible.

 

(Sorry for bad english)

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited by baø

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I tried WAAS with 2.86, and to my surprise I noticed D's on many of the satellites. 2.86 is the first release where I have ever seen a D on the satellite signal chart.

 

It may be just the geographical location (I'm in the Mid-Alantic Region, US), and have a 400t, Software Ver 2.80, GPS Software Ver 2.58, and I routinely get WAAS Satellites 48 and 51 (51 more often) with "D"s on all bars. I haven't taken the plunge to try Ver 2.85 Beta (now 2.86 Beta) yet. Just color me cautious :(. I sure do appreciate the comments and feedback all of you provide though.

 

Bill

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Wow. They seemed focused on the Oregon. That is a good thing.

 

Think I will wait a bit on this one. 2.85 is working fine for me.

 

Sure wish they would update the Wherigo player.

 

What do you want updated on the Wherigo player? I haven't used it much (we don't have many Wherigos to play around here) but I wasn't aware of any problems with it. Is it not current with Wherigo cartridges?

 

Just curious.

 

BlueDamsel

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Wow. They seemed focused on the Oregon. That is a good thing.

 

Think I will wait a bit on this one. 2.85 is working fine for me.

 

Sure wish they would update the Wherigo player.

 

What do you want updated on the Wherigo player? I haven't used it much (we don't have many Wherigos to play around here) but I wasn't aware of any problems with it. Is it not current with Wherigo cartridges?

 

Just curious.

 

BlueDamsel

 

Tasks don't work. Show Detail Screen is intermittent. Things work in the Colorado that don't work in the Oregon and vice versa. Check out the Wherigo forum if you want more details. There hasn't been a new player in several months.

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Wow. They seemed focused on the Oregon. That is a good thing.

 

Think I will wait a bit on this one. 2.85 is working fine for me.

 

Sure wish they would update the Wherigo player.

 

What do you want updated on the Wherigo player? I haven't used it much (we don't have many Wherigos to play around here) but I wasn't aware of any problems with it. Is it not current with Wherigo cartridges?

 

Just curious.

 

BlueDamsel

 

Tasks don't work. Show Detail Screen is intermittent. Things work in the Colorado that don't work in the Oregon and vice versa. Check out the Wherigo forum if you want more details. There hasn't been a new player in several months.

 

That's too bad. I've only played a couple of Play Anywhere cartridges, and they seemed to work fine, but I haven't really gotten into them very much just because of the lack of Wherigos in our area.

 

There's ARE couple around here I wanted to try though, and the ability to play them was one of the things I looked forward to on the Oregon, so this isn't very good news. I guess if Wherigo had near the popularity that regular geocaching does, they'd probably be looking at an update a little harder (the barking dog gets smacked first :( )

 

Thanks for responding.

BlueDamsel

Edited by BlueDamsel

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Getting vastly improved accuracy and getting EGNOS outside my house which I never got on my Oregon before (my 60CSx always locked really quick there).

 

I only ever had 2 EGNOS locks on bird #33, never on #37 until now.

 

It seems the GPS rev update has made quite a difference for me at least.

 

Regards,

 

-Andy

Put in 2.86 today. Went to a place with good reception. Got 2m on accurancy at best. But no WAAS/EGNOS. It was listening for #33, #37 and #39 but no EGNOS info seemed to be processed. My good ole MAP60CS on the other hand locked in on #33 and displayed the D on most of the birds fairly quick.

 

I am testing right now and I see a good signal on #33, but no D's. Now going for #37, no signal. And #38 and #39 and #40. No good. Back to #33, good signal. Accurancy improved but still no D's.

 

If this improves I will report back

 

Oslo, Norway

 

Yeah, one thing I have noted is that you still have to have a solid green bar from the EGNOS bird before any corrections start showing up. This seems to take about 5 mins sometimes. I don't think the unit has the ability to fast lock onto these birds like the regular constellation (stores ~3 days of ephemeris apparently to do this - that's augmented by the Cartesio chipset AFAIK).

 

If the signal from the WAAS bird drops to zero and you lose the white bar whilst it is loading then you can start counting 5 mins again. The 60CSx didn't have this issue at all. It may just be the way it has to be of course with the Cartesio models. I'm wondering if the Nuvis with this chipset are the same.

Edited by iamasmith

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Wow. They seemed focused on the Oregon. That is a good thing.

 

Think I will wait a bit on this one. 2.85 is working fine for me.

 

Sure wish they would update the Wherigo player.

 

What do you want updated on the Wherigo player? I haven't used it much (we don't have many Wherigos to play around here) but I wasn't aware of any problems with it. Is it not current with Wherigo cartridges?

 

Just curious.

 

BlueDamsel

 

Tasks don't work. Show Detail Screen is intermittent. Things work in the Colorado that don't work in the Oregon and vice versa. Check out the Wherigo forum if you want more details. There hasn't been a new player in several months.

 

That's too bad. I've only played a couple of Play Anywhere cartridges, and they seemed to work fine, but I haven't really gotten into them very much just because of the lack of Wherigos in our area.

 

There's ARE couple around here I wanted to try though, and the ability to play them was one of the things I looked forward to on the Oregon, so this isn't very good news. I guess if Wherigo had near the popularity that regular geocaching does, they'd probably be looking at an update a little harder (the barking dog gets smacked first :laughing: )

 

Thanks for responding.

BlueDamsel

 

Don't let that discourage you from playing Wherigo's. Most developers know and avoid the pitfalls.

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Don't let that discourage you from playing Wherigo's. Most developers know and avoid the pitfalls.

 

Sweet. Thanks for the encouragement! I'll go try the ones around here soon, then.

 

BD

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WOW, I did a track test today to see how well the new firmware tracks your position.

 

In a word; SUCKS! I had consistent errors of >80ft and some deviation of 200ft.

 

My test: I hiked a trail with moderate tree cover (open Ponderosa Pine forest) of about 1 mile long. I then backtracked the exact trail I hiked to see how closely the trakcs lined up.

 

Two points:

 

1) WAAS didn't hold up in anything but a clear open view of the entire sky. It would often hold a full hollow bar for a time but never locked.

 

2) over 90% of the time I had a "accuracy" reading of 8ft. It seemed unnatural and bogus. Especially since I had actual devtiations of 200ft.

 

I'll post screenshots depicting my findings tonight but I'll say again, the tracking seems even worse than before which was bad to begin with. Garmin has a way to go with position calc especially when it comes to tracking.

 

EDIT: Has anyone else done any tracking tests, anecdotal or otherwise?

Edited by yogazoo

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Yuck, it would be good to see some other tests along these lines. I wish I had mine -- probably won't until next week and I'll be traveling so not much time to test in the next few weeks.

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Went out geocaching on 2.86 today. The Oregon would show an accuracy of about 2 to 3 meters all the time, even in the city between buildings. However, the actual accuracy was way worse than that and probably didn't change since 2.85.

 

Sometimes the Oregon would claim that I'm within 3 meters of my target when I was standing at two different points which were actually about 10 to 15 meters apart from each other...

 

So I think they probably changed the formula used to calculate accuracy on the Oregon while the actual accuracy stayed the same.

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I went out to place a cache today with my 60 CSX and my Oregon with version 2.86. The 60 said the coords were N39 02.429 W86 27.483 the Oregon said N39 02.458 W86 27.464. Before the update when I used them together the coords were very close. I went back to 2.85.

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See a section of my tracks below. The yellow is a section of the first track in "auto-most often". The red is my return trip in 1-second intervals (20 minutes later). The whole time the "gps accuracy" field reported a max of 12ft and was on 8ft most of the time. WTF!? This segment of my tracks was one of the better segments. sad. I wish I could go back to ver2.85.

 

The second image is of three waypoints taken 30 seconds apart at the same location. The stationary position calculation seems a bit better but still fails to impress. I pine for the days with my trusty and unbelievably accurate 60csx.

 

P.S. I wouldn't recommend anyone "upgrading" to this crap release. Stick with 2.85

 

1234046807.jpg

 

1234047256.jpg

Edited by yogazoo

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I went out to place a cache today with my 60 CSX and my Oregon with version 2.86. The 60 said the coords were N39 02.429 W86 27.483 the Oregon said N39 02.458 W86 27.464. Before the update when I used them together the coords were very close. I went back to 2.85.

What is the easyest way to go back to 2.85? I need it in simple terms.

Thanks

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See my post above yours.

 

Just tried the instructions for downgrading the software on my Colorado from 2.9 to 2.8. To my surprise it was very easy. The startup was a bit shakey as the screen froze and turned grey. Once I pulled and reinstalled the batteries it started. The first screen is a prompt indicating the current software was newer and do I want to install,Yes or No. After selecting yes it proceeded with the usual update progress bar. Thanks for the tip!

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I went on a hike today with a 60CSX and an Oregon 300. The following images depict my results.

 

A few notes. 1) The 60 had WAAS correction the entire time. Oregon did not for the entirety of the test.

on the test 2) I allowed the units to warm up for 30 minutes before beginning to record the tracklog.

3) I had the units 2 feet apart in a verticle position (antenna up).

4) Both units were set to record at 1-second intervals.

 

Observations: Of course, the fabled accuracy of the 60CSX shines in these tests. when you disable the track on Google Earth in most cases you can see the actual trail on the aerial photo directly underneath the track. Under heavy tree cover the Oregon tracklog is erratic and does not track well. There was a consistent error observed between the two units that I hypothesize can be attributed to the WAAS corrections being received by the 60 and not by the Oregon. I couldn't get ahold of another Oregon unit to test different software versions and I scrapped the idea of returning later with 2.85 loaded because of the potential for variability due to the changing PDOP.

 

Summary: The Oregon is very erratic in it's tracking and is not very stable in positional calculation. This test is done with v2.86 software and it cannot be determined here whether or not the new software is worse than the older versions or if it is just as bad. The gold standard for accuracy, the 60csx, once again shows us how accurate and stable the positioning could be in a GPS.

 

Mini-Rant: Why is it that as we advance in microelectronics technology (i.e. cartesio) and tout the advantages of the newer chipsets being better able to discriminate errant signals, we devolve in accuracy and the quality of positional data?

 

RED=60csx - BLUE=Oregon

 

 

Here we have moderate tree cover and the erratic behavior of the Oregon is obvious.

1234125390.jpg

 

 

Here I doubled back on my trail. It's flat with few trees. Both units do a good job here but you can see the WAAS corrections being applied in the 60CSX making it more "accurate". I was walking on the south side of the forest road. The Oregon has me in the forest on the North side. Notice the 60csx is so precise you can actually see the track and the doubleback being seperated because of the shoulder I was carrying it on.

1234126549.jpg

 

 

Sparse tree cover.

1234126619.jpg

 

 

Here the WAAS correction can be seen again but also there is an erratic nature to the Oregon that is disturbingly pervasive throughout it's tracklog. Here I circled my vehicle several times. The 60csx shows the car where it really was, on the side of the paved road. The Oregon has it up on the grass.

1234126667.jpg

 

 

In a small ravine the Oregon totally freaks out. 60csx is steady, smooth and accurately superimposed directly on top of the actual trail. The Oregon is erratic, innaccurate, and simply unreliable.

1234126694.jpg

 

 

This is a single test. It would be good to take a look at some more comparisons under varying conditions AND with different software versions before passing judgement on v2.86. Based on this test it doesn't look good. That said, regardless of version, it appears as though we have a way to go in the "reliably accurate" department. I never really had total confidence in the accuracy of my Oregon anyway, even with earlier versions of the software.

Edited by yogazoo

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I believe I found a bug, but I apologize if it has already been reported in another version.

 

When navigating to a cache and on the Map page, select the cache and click on it's name in order to see the description. The description will be blank.

 

However,

1) If you select the description from the Geocache page, the description will show.

2) If you select the cache and click on it's name in the map page while NOT navigating to it, the description will be displayed correctly.

 

This worked as described for several caches in my area.

 

-Keith

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I believe I found a bug, but I apologize if it has already been reported in another version.

 

When navigating to a cache and on the Map page, select the cache and click on it's name in order to see the description. The description will be blank.

 

However,

1) If you select the description from the Geocache page, the description will show.

2) If you select the cache and click on it's name in the map page while NOT navigating to it, the description will be displayed correctly.

 

This worked as described for several caches in my area.

 

-Keith

 

Was able to reproduce this error as well.

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@yogazoo

I have also a gpsmap60sx and an Oregon300

I had similar results.

The logging of the gpsmap60csx is still state of the art.

Seems that garmin did only improve the value in the accuracy field.

Let's wait for the next Beta.

Edited by freeday

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I went on a hike today with a 60CSX and an Oregon 300. The following images depict my results.

 

Now, if anyone could do the same test with a 60CSx and a Colorado. I'm going to stick to my Nüvi until I'm able to get a Garmin GPS that is as accurate as the 60CSx but with paperless features that are up to par (or better) than what I get with the Nüvi (using GSAK macro).

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Hi yogazoo,

 

I have made similar observations when I compared my Oregon 300 (2.8) with my Vista Hcx (I never had the drift problem and I think that it has excellent accuracy as well).

When looking for caches, most of the times, the Oregon and Vista were pointing to spots 3 to 10 meters apart from each other Especially under heavy tree cover this turned out to be a problem.

Obviously I can not say which one is right or wrong (if any...). In many cases, though, the Vista was pointing straight at the cache, while the oregon was off by quite a bit, despite having a small EPE number.

While I love the big touch screen on the Oregon, I do not trust it very much when it comes to accuracy. For accuracy I prefer my Vista Hcx.

Robert

 

PS, I did a cache hunt with a friend last week, with the Oregon (2.86). He was using a Vista Hcx. I will ask him to send me his tracks so that I can overlay them with my tracks. I will post the result, when I get his tracks.

 

I went on a hike today with a 60CSX and an Oregon 300. The following images depict my results.

 

Edited by StanByk

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