PN-40 vs 60CSx

[+dadude712]

Hey,

 

I have been searching and searching, and making bids, shopping trying to find my perfect fit.

Right now I have about 65 finds, so I am a bigger. I like all types of caching, city mostly, but I always enjoy some backwoods with a flashlight.

 

I have been using a Garmin III plus (really old) and a nuvi 200. The 200 is very bouncy and takes me far from the cache, but is great on the road. The III gets me pretty close, but is hard to use, and doesn't really have much on the maps side.

 

I need an upgrade. I have figured out that I need a 60csx or a pn-40. however I'm not out to other options.

 

I'm looking for:

 

-total price under $400

-accurate in woods

-good on the road

-good for taking with me flying. (I'm a pilot, airport poi?)

-MAC support would be wonderful, but I can use bootcamp

 

Paperless is nice, but I can use GSAK if I need to.

 

So a few questions I have, how does the pn-40 and the 60csx do on the road as compared to my nuvi 200?

What options are there for flying on both of these units?

 

Ok, Hopefully I make this a bit better than just "another pn-40 or 60csx thread". (PS, I plan to be a premium member as soon as I upgrade, so no hate there please

 

I'm looking forward to each of your opinions. Please just keep them all friendly. =)

 

Thanks!

Dustin Corey

[+StarBrand]

For in-car navigation - the Nuvi you already own is the best.

 

As for Geocaching, the 60CSx has long been considered the finest GPS on the market. Its rich feature set is praised by many. Rugged, reliable and sensitive. Great unit for multiple uses. Works well for car nav as well. However, for paperless Geocaching its options are a comprmise. Not good at all.

 

The PN-40 is pretty new and has an awful lot of potential. I think it needs to undergo a few upgrades yet and needs some useability features simplified but lots of potential there.

 

Have you considred a Garmin Oregon? The touchscreen interface and out of the box Geocaching abilities are terrific. It lacks some of the rich feature set of the 60CSx but does wonders on paperless Geocaching. Easy to learn and use with a sharp screen. For purely Geocaching - this unit is my choice.

[+TurLee]

I've found the PN-40 to be very good in the woods; stable and accurate.

 

Only tried it once on the road; after a short time I switched to my Mio Moov because I didn't like having to think about how many beeps meant what. While the PN-40 will do road navigation that is not its strong point. I suspect most any unit specifically designed for car travel will be a better option.

 

Yes, paperless is nice.

 

I can't address flying or Macs.

[eaparks]

You probably won't go wrong with either unit. I use the 60CSx myself so I can only tell you what I know about it. I'm not saying the PN-40 won't do the same I'm just not familiar with it so I'll let others address what it will do.

 

The 60CSx is excellent in heavy cover (woods), will hold a satellite lock in a vehicle well and should do the same in small plane since you are close to windows on 3 sides of you unlike the commercial heavies. I'm am an ex-pilot but haven't used a 60CSx in flight. With the additional City Navigator (street maps about $100) the 60CSx does a very good job of auto-routing... free street maps are available from Ibycus which are very good, you just won't be able to auto-route with them, but then they are free and good detail.

 

With the highway screen (navigating to an airport waypt) or either with the compass set to course pointer your gps screen could closely resemble an ILS display. I believe if you wanted to go to the trouble you could use the altimeter screen to give rate of decent info. similar to a glide slope, granted I would not use either for IFR weather but might be fun to play around with. After the novelty wore off, I'm not sure I would use a 60CSx in flight just because the present day aviation GPS units spoil you so quickly with all their air and ground data instantly available. They have really spoiled the modern day pilot; back when I was flying we just had VOR.

 

On the POI Factory website there are Custom POI files for all U.S. airports that you can very easily download as Custom POIs to the Micro Sd memory card using Garmin's free POI Loader. Also, millions of more POIs - hundreds of files that you could download for about anything you can think of. I have put over 30,000 Custom POIs on before and they only took up about 7 Mbs. of memory - hardly anything when using a 2Gb card.

Edited February 2, 2009 by eaparks

[+KJcachers]

I use my PN-40 for road routing to caches all the time. When I get near I switch to direct mode and go find the cache!

[+twolpert]

No Mac support for the PN-40. You need to use the Delorme Topo 7 software to download waypoints, routes, and tracks to the unit (and to upload them back to the PC). T7 only runs on Windows.

 

This does not apply to loading the topo/routable street map data that comes with the unit. Those can be transferred by treating the PN-40 as a FAT-32 USB disk.

 

However, you DO need T7 in order to take advantage of the $30/year subscription for downloadable imagery and additional mapping products. That means Windows.

 

Also note that most Delorme cartography and imagery is limited to the US.

 

That said, I own a PN-40 and like it very much for caching. It also does road routing, but you really are much better off with an automotive unit. Limited paperless caching support exists now and will get better with subsequent (hopefully soon) firmware and software releases.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I would recommend the PN-40. The PN-40 has the maps right in the box, something you'll need to buy for the Garmin, the PN-40 will route, but you've already got the routing GPS, so I wouldn't worry about that!

 

The beauty of the PN-40 is that it is paperless (somewhat) now, and will be fully paperless very soon, this is a HUGE bonus for any unit! Also, ability to add aerial views, sat imagery, NOAA charts, hi-res city imagery etc is a great bonus! The PN-40 is very accurate, the screen is easily readable in any light.

 

As has been said, the PN-40 is awaiting an update which will really help to making this "THE" unit for caching, but it is a very good unit right now (and the update shouldn't be much longer from all we've been hearing)

 

You can pick a PN-40 up right now at amazon.com for $320, or you can buy the PN-40se straight from DeLorme for around $500 which includes a built-in 8g memory (as opposed to a 1g) and the travel power kit! Of course, you can also buy the power kit separately if you would rather not go with the PN-40se!

 

I am awaiting the delivery of my power kit and map subscription....can't wait to start downloading maps!! The map subscription is for the additional maps you can download for the unit, remember this is not needed, the maps that come with the unit will do you just fine (but aerial views and hi-res city views...WOW!!!).

[+randyrucker]

Between the PN-40 and 60Csx there is no question really. Get the PN-40. The only other unit I would consider for geocaching is the Oregon 400t, but that unit is above your $400 price point and prolly not worth the money. The -40 is really tight, even under tree cover. It will take you to the cache coords on time every time. Having the maps and comments in the unit are nice too. As an example: I recently found a cache in the woods about 200 yrds off the trail. I looked at my -40 and saw the Hi-Res maps showing the easiest way to get there was to walk down a power line easement which did not show up on the topo map. If I had gone directly to the cache I would have ripped up my leather jacket on briars. I like the "big picture" the color maps give you for stuff like that. For some geocaching features of the -40 check out: http://blog.delorme.com/

[jmedlock]

Regarding "accuracy", I've done some side-by-side comparisons with a 60CSx and PN-40:

 

http://gps.wmsar.info/pn40/

 

I'm waiting to do more testing until after DeLorme releases the 2.5 firmware release since they have WAAS and other fixes.

 

Regards,

Justin

[+richardspda]

I just got into Geocaching this weekend using my iPhone. However, I been thinking that perhaps I should get a "proper" geocaching unit.

 

I for one like the iPhone app since I get everything wireless but that is also it's biggest weakness - loss of 3G/Edge network once you get away from town [and battery drain]. Now if there was a way to push stuff from a iPhone to your Geocaching hand unit that would be cool!

 

From reading so far it seems that the Oregon 400t is what I will like for paperless or perhaps PN-40, assuming Delorme makes good on firmware updates. I am not to sure about Delorme, since I really do not recall them being very quick on releases (I used to use their maps on my laptop and Windows PDA). I am pretty sure the 60CSx is out since it is not paperless at all.

 

So, with a iPhone in the mix and with a user starting off papperless - what would be the "good" upgrade path?

 

PS: Hope this not seen as hijacking the thread... I think I am basically on topic.

[+TotemLake]

I just got into Geocaching this weekend using my iPhone. However, I been thinking that perhaps I should get a "proper" geocaching unit.

 

I for one like the iPhone app since I get everything wireless but that is also it's biggest weakness - loss of 3G/Edge network once you get away from town [and battery drain]. Now if there was a way to push stuff from a iPhone to your Geocaching hand unit that would be cool!

 

From reading so far it seems that the Oregon 400t is what I will like for paperless or perhaps PN-40, assuming Delorme makes good on firmware updates. I am not to sure about Delorme, since I really do not recall them being very quick on releases (I used to use their maps on my laptop and Windows PDA). I am pretty sure the 60CSx is out since it is not paperless at all.

 

So, with a iPhone in the mix and with a user starting off papperless - what would be the "good" upgrade path?

 

PS: Hope this not seen as hijacking the thread... I think I am basically on topic.

SW versus FW updates are two different beasts.

 

They are fast and furious with the FW updates and as forthcoming as they can be under the NDA. DeLorme started working on 2.5 as soon as 2.4 was released this past December.

[+embra]

I'm looking for:

 

-total price under $400

-accurate in woods

-good on the road

-good for taking with me flying. (I'm a pilot, airport poi?)

-MAC support would be wonderful, but I can use bootcamp

Both meet your price limitation, Garmin map software will cost you extra but still come in within budget, I think. You can get a lot of free topo imagery for Garmins (see www.gpsfiledepot.com ), but I think you would need to pony up for street routing Garmin maps.

 

Both are designed more for ground use than flying. Both have a barometric altimeter. The PN-40 assumes a walking speed of 3 mph in estimating arrival time on a direct route, which would be (ahem) a bit of an underestimate for flying purposes. I don't know for sure about the 60csx, but I'll bet it uses your current speed for the calculation.

 

Delorme has mentioned that they intend to provide native Mac support for some things, such as transferring waypoints to the PN-40. My guess is that will be at least 6 months off, as they're currently focusing on the geocaching features for the PN-40 and the PC.

 

Paperless is nice, but I can use GSAK if I need to.

Advantage to PN-40 here (see the link to the Delorme blog for examples of the upcoming improvements). Currently there is an 800-character limit on the comment field. I think the 60csx has only 35 characters or so. However, one can put a large number of custom POIs on the 60csx, so some people put additional caches on that way. The PN-40 doesn't handle custom POIs as well.

 

how does the pn-40 and the 60csx do on the road as compared to my nuvi 200?

The 60csx does a better job of street routing. I use my PN-40 for routing from cache to cache--it does a fine job of that--but I'll use my dedicated Garmin autorouter for anything beyond that. Your Nuvi would make a good combination with the PN-40, so I wouldn't expect that to be a big issue. But if you are looking for something to use for more than incidental street routing, advantage 60csx.

 

Delorme give you a 30 day return period if purchased from any authorized reseller, so you can try and bail if you don't like it.

[+Pax42]

I own both a 60csx and a PN-40. The PN-40 is now what I use exclusively for offroad caching. I also have a Nuvi for on road navigation and navigating to caches via road using a GSAK macro to load caches as POI's. No "offroad" handheld will work as good as your nuvi for road use.

 

Being a pilot, there's another product you may want to check out down the road as it would be outside your mentioned budget and it's not designed for offroad use. It's the Bendix/King AV8OR. It's a Nuvi/TomTom like handheld for auto navigation but also has applications specifically for pilots including XM weather capability. It retails for $700 but I think you can find deals from distributors.

[+dakboy]

Delorme has mentioned that they intend to provide native Mac support for some things, such as transferring waypoints to the PN-40. My guess is that will be at least 6 months off, as they're currently focusing on the geocaching features for the PN-40 and the PC.

I have not seen anything from DeLorme to indicate anything other than a simultaneous release of Cache Register (the app which will support the geocaching features and allow for waypoint transfer, etc. w/o using Topo7) on Mac & Windows.

Edited February 2, 2009 by dakboy

[+twolpert]

Delorme has mentioned that they intend to provide native Mac support for some things, such as transferring waypoints to the PN-40. My guess is that will be at least 6 months off, as they're currently focusing on the geocaching features for the PN-40 and the PC.

I have not seen anything from DeLorme to indicate anything other than a simultaneous release of Cache Register (the app which will support the geocaching features and allow for waypoint transfer, etc. w/o using Topo7) on Mac & Windows.

See this post from Chip Noble at Delorme. One of his prior posts indicated the firmware, Send to Delorme (one cache) and field note upload would be more or less simultaneous. The post below indicates that the Cache Register will be later than that, and the Topo USA support for the enhanced caching features will be later still. Someplace else, I seem to recall somebody from Delorme stating that a Mac version of Topo USA was not likely anytime soon. But I can't find that one.

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?p=101813#101813

[+embra]

Let's see what I can find...

 

Here in the Delorme forum Chip mentioned

We're very close to releasing a Data.DeLorme.com update that will let enter a MapLibrary subscription number to download the imagery for your PN-40 on your Mac.

That's web based, but won't require Windows.

 

Here he indicated there soon should be a means for Mac users to install firmware upgrades to the PNs.

 

That's all I can find on a quick search. If I come across anything else, I'll try to post the links.

[+Klemmer]

I'm very happy with my PN-40 for geocaching and benchmark hunting, including paperless. Seven for seven geocaches Saturday, didn't need to open the PDA. My buddy with a 60Csx was asking me for the cache desription, hints, etc. The maps are fantastic, better than others by far, with $30 / year for unlimited USGS 1:24K Quads, NOAA Nautical charts, three different levels of aerial pics (depending on what is available for your area). My 60Csx buddy has been drooling over my PN-40 on-board aerials, Good thingthe PN-40 is waterproof

 

I've owned, let's see..... about 5 previous handheld GPS receivers, Garmin, Magellan, Delorme. On roads, it's an installed Jeep unit (which does great).

 

The 60Csx is a good unit also. I came very close to buying one after a lot of study, but went with Delorme (PN-20, then PN-40) because of the maps. No regrets.

[+dadude712]

Thanks for all of your reviews!

 

It has left me with a slight lean toward the pn-40, but I still have a few more remarks.

 

If I buy a new gps, I will most likely sell my nuvi 200 (to balance the price some). This would leave me to really question the usability of the driving maps on both systems.

 

Can you tell me how they work on each? Can I type in an address, and it talk to me? Can I put in closest "taco bell"? I hear the 60csx is better on the road, How so? how is it different?

 

If the airports can be put in as poi on the 60, can they on the pn40 also? I would use this as a backup to the planes main gps (power failure). I would just like to hit nearest airport, and have it take me there (compass).

 

If I buy the pn40, do I need to buy the maps for $30? what is the system like without the maps?

 

Thanks again for all of your help. And I hope others can read this and answer their questions also.

 

Cheers,

dc

[+user13371]

In a nutshell:

 

1) Garmin has DeLorme beat on auto-routing and POI's. Or so I'm told - personally I don't rely on those features.

 

2) The PN-40 comes with complete detailed maps in the box, both street level detail and topo data. The additional $30 you've read about is for an optional, annual subscription for downloading more detailed topo data and aerial imagery.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Can you tell me how they work on each? Can I type in an address, and it talk to me? Can I put in closest "taco bell"? I hear the 60csx is better on the road, How so? how is it different?

 

 

I cannot comment on the 60CSx as I have never used one.

 

Regarding the PN-40, I just made a trip up to Sacramento (420 miles) and back using it's autorouting features. More significantly, I am forutnate to have a factory installed, in-dash NAV/GPS unit in my dash with voice guidance and a 3" x 5" screen so that I could run it and the -40t side by side for comparative purposes.

 

Concerning the comments of others, I note that their comments on the PN-40's capabilities are lacking in that regard. They fail to separate their comments into two distinct operational phases:

1. Entering the data, such as addresses, waypoints, POIs, etc. for the routing calculations, and

2. The driving phase where one is using the guidance.

 

It is a little bit more cumbersome and less obvious to set up the routes on the -40 as compared to the in-dash, but it all can be done. For the final destination, my sister's house, I used her street address, for the overnight motel I used a pre-stored POI and for my house as departure I used a Waypoint that I created. The same points were used for both devices and they came up with almost identical routings with similar distance and drive time estimates. I think that the PN-40 is far better than most give it credit for. However, I could be wrong as I've only tested it for those 850 miles and perhaps 100, or so, more around here. I'm certain the detractors have had much more experience.

 

For the actual drive, it's no contest. Going through the heart of LA at noontime (so I'm not at a crawl) to do the required lane changing and transitioning from one freeway to another, or be in the proper lane(s) not to do so, with and without the voice guidance is a night and day difference. I sure would not like to rely on the beeps of the -40 when those on the right have to merge into my lane, or vice versa. Event though the screen is far bigger in-dash, I really don't look at that either as I just use the voice.

 

But remember, such is not a disadvantage of the PN-40 as it's primary function is to serve as a handheld unit for out-of-vehicle activities. I consider the auto-routing and in vehicle capbilities to be added bonuses that one can use on a non-optional basis.

 

With that in mind, I would not use the auto-routing comparatives between the -40 and the 60CSx as factors in choosing one over the other (unless the 60CSx can talk to you).

Edited February 3, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+Rockin Roddy]

Thanks for all of your reviews!

 

It has left me with a slight lean toward the pn-40, but I still have a few more remarks.

 

If I buy a new gps, I will most likely sell my nuvi 200 (to balance the price some). This would leave me to really question the usability of the driving maps on both systems.

 

Can you tell me how they work on each? Can I type in an address, and it talk to me? Can I put in closest "taco bell"? I hear the 60csx is better on the road, How so? how is it different?

 

If the airports can be put in as poi on the 60, can they on the pn40 also? I would use this as a backup to the planes main gps (power failure). I would just like to hit nearest airport, and have it take me there (compass).

 

If I buy the pn40, do I need to buy the maps for $30? what is the system like without the maps?

 

Thanks again for all of your help. And I hope others can read this and answer their questions also.

 

Cheers,

dc

 

Nope, the maps in the box are all you'll need. The $30 subscription is for...well, let me just link you to the PN-40!

 

DeLorme PN-40 on amazon.com

 

Read down past the fluff to find the description and then keep on reading, you'll find a slew of maps you'll be able to download with the $30 subscription.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

RR is correct, the box has 3 DVDs with the detail Topo 7 maps for the USA for complete coverage. They were all that I used for the first two years. Now that the $30 annual subscrition is available, I have downloaded only 18GB so far. (Comparatively, I'm bringing up the rear. )

 

However, they are essentially all that I use nowadays. I use the Hi-Res City 133 photo imagery for around town geocaching and the CDOQQs (color photo imagery for back country, 4WD travel). I'm just waiting for the 32GB cards to drop to $40 as I will soon have my 16GB filled up and I want to download some more CDOQQs.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+myotis]

I would not get either. I would get a Colorado or Oregon.

 

But to your quesitons.

 

I have used both the 60CSX and CO for street navigation. They have beeps but not voice commands. Other than that, I think they both do a real good job for street navigation. I have the CO and no desire for a Nuvi as the CO does what I need. The 60CSX will pop up a close up of the turn a short ways before the turn and then as you are going into it. The CO/OR has a screen like the Nuvi and zooms in on its own with an arrow showing how to go. I looked at the itty bitty screen shot of the 40 and do not see how something that small could be of much use. What also suprised me is it appears the 40's data fiedls are not transparent (you cannot see the map under the field). You would think with so little screen space to begin with, they would try to maximize what you can see. I really like the big screen on the CO and the transparent data fields.

 

Another advantage the CO/OR has is profiles. You can have various settings for different types of use. I have a profile for automotive, recreation, geocaching, air plane (knots) and every setting can be changed for the profile. So you can swith the GPS from automotive to hiking in a couple of seconds and have all the settings optimized for the use.

 

City Navigator has airports built in. With find, you can slect find transportation and then select airports. However, custom POIs are another outstanding feature of Garmins. If you get a database of runways you can add them as custom POIs and have a seperate category for them. Then you select find, custom POIs and then you can select the category or spell it. If all you have is runways as custom POIs, all you would have to do is select find custom POIs and then they will show up sorted by distance. If you have other categories of custom POIs, you would just select categories. I have a category for home so I can always have it take me home with a few clicks. I also have categories for other places I commonly go.

 

Garmin does a great job on or off the road. The screen on the OR/CO is far superior to anything out there. for a handheld IMHO, the screen is the most important feature and that is the 40's biggest problem. I was also amazed at how big the maps for the 40 are. So much bigger maps is another of numerous major problems with delorome's bitmap/raster maps. I will take vector Garmin maps anyday over the Delorme maps.

[+Pax42]

The screen on the OR/CO is far superior to anything out there. for a handheld IMHO, the screen is the most important feature and that is the 40's biggest problem.

 

REALLY? The number one complaint on the internet concerning the Oregon is the display's sunlight readability (other than that it seems to be a fine unit). The Colorado's screen isn't much better. And yes, I have personally viewed the 60csx, Colorado, Oregon, and PN-40 outdoors. I'm not just going by things I've read or pictures I've seen. The easiest to read display in direct sunlight is the PN-40 followed very closely by the 60csx. Now I suppose if you want to search for geocaches indoors, the OR/CO's screen is the best thing out there.

[BlueDamsel]

 

-total price under $400

-accurate in woods

-good on the road

-good for taking with me flying. (I'm a pilot, airport poi?)

-MAC support would be wonderful, but I can use bootcamp

 

 

The Oregon is very Mac friendly. I've had no problem doing with it what I need to do and I'm using a Mac. With the addition of City Nav NT, it's great on the road (although it doesn't talk to you, but does signal with a beep). Very accurate, better than my last 2 units. Total price, under $400 if you get the OR400 without City Nav NT (has topos), or the OR300 with City Nav NT (does not have topos, but can be added later). Custom POIs can be added to either unit.

 

Yes, the screen is more dim than other GPSr units available, but with a couple of adjustments and using NiMHs for good battery life, I've had NO trouble reading it in any lighting condition (and I'm nearly 50 and wear bifocals).

 

I've been happy with my Oregon, and I believe it is hands-down the best "geocaching" specific GPSr out there.

 

 

BlueDamsel

Edited February 4, 2009 by BlueDamsel

[+myotis]

The screen on the OR/CO is far superior to anything out there. for a handheld IMHO, the screen is the most important feature and that is the 40's biggest problem.

 

REALLY? The number one complaint on the internet concerning the Oregon is the display's sunlight readability (other than that it seems to be a fine unit). The Colorado's screen isn't much better. And yes, I have personally viewed the 60csx, Colorado, Oregon, and PN-40 outdoors. I'm not just going by things I've read or pictures I've seen. The easiest to read display in direct sunlight is the PN-40 followed very closely by the 60csx. Now I suppose if you want to search for geocaches indoors, the OR/CO's screen is the best thing out there.

 

I have no trouble reading the CO screen in direct sunlight. If you have 3d shading on, it is harder to see, but you can turn off 3d shading. Does the Delorome have shading? I rarely use it but it is nice to have the option. You can see so much more on a big screen. Even if you can see better on the itty bitty screen, it still has the huge problem of being an itty bitty screen.

[+twolpert]

I have no trouble reading the CO screen in direct sunlight. If you have 3d shading on, it is harder to see, but you can turn off 3d shading. Does the Delorome have shading? I rarely use it but it is nice to have the option. You can see so much more on a big screen. Even if you can see better on the itty bitty screen, it still has the huge problem of being an itty bitty screen.

I have both a CO and a PN-40. Although I don't have any trouble reading the CO in direct sun, I do have to tilt the unit just right to do so. I don't have to do that with the PN-40.

 

I do not (personally) find the PN-40's screen size to be a problem. It is, however, true that you don't see as much of the surrounding area (at a comparable zoom level) on the smaller screen. So I don't think it's a "huge problem", but opinions vary

 

The PN-40 does not do relief shading. I believe the Delorme topos have DEM data because T7 can do both relief shading and 3-D viewing. But the unit does not use it (if it is even downloaded). Although I never use it, the CO does have 3-D wireframe viewing. The PN-40 also lacks this feature.

[+Rockin Roddy]

The screen on the OR/CO is far superior to anything out there. for a handheld IMHO, the screen is the most important feature and that is the 40's biggest problem.

 

REALLY? The number one complaint on the internet concerning the Oregon is the display's sunlight readability (other than that it seems to be a fine unit). The Colorado's screen isn't much better. And yes, I have personally viewed the 60csx, Colorado, Oregon, and PN-40 outdoors. I'm not just going by things I've read or pictures I've seen. The easiest to read display in direct sunlight is the PN-40 followed very closely by the 60csx. Now I suppose if you want to search for geocaches indoors, the OR/CO's screen is the best thing out there.

 

I have no trouble reading the CO screen in direct sunlight. If you have 3d shading on, it is harder to see, but you can turn off 3d shading. Does the Delorome have shading? I rarely use it but it is nice to have the option. You can see so much more on a big screen. Even if you can see better on the itty bitty screen, it still has the huge problem of being an itty bitty screen.

 

What are you doing out there...watching TV?? No? You're using the unit to guide you to a location, right? So, a little smaller screen had absolutely no bearing at all as to my purchase. Itty bitty?? Stop trying to make that the unit is horrid all because of the screen size. If this is your only real complaint, then I guess the unit speaks for itself! And SURE, you can "make" the Colorado and Oregon screens easier to read at the loss of battery life and some tweaking, but don't try to tell potential buyers the unit is easily viewed, as it's been reported over and over that it isn't! I have seen both the OR and CO in action, held both in my hands, and yes, that HUGE screen is hard to view in sunlight (you know, "outside")!

 

The Colorado is likely a great unit, the Oregon is supposed to be the "upgrade" from the Colorado, I would bet both are great units, even at the inflated prices. The touchscreen of the Oregon scares me, I wouldn't want to have to replace that screen in case of an accident, and I would worry that dropping it would render the unit useless (screw up that screen and you're stuck in the mud). So, I would then want to buy a case for the CO or OR, just to feel safer, but at a price. The CO and OR "feel" dainty or delicate compared to the ruggedness of the DeLorme or the 60C's, the OR and CO almost feel like a PDA instead of a ruggged unit built to be used outside...IMHO!

 

IMHO, the prices of the Garmins are like the Harley Davidsons, you're buying a name! That would be all fine and good if the only competition out there was the Magellans, but there are more units out which will do as well and even better than the Colorado and Oregon, at a much lower price AND with the same or better CS than the Garmins! Garmin used to be top of the line merely by default, now, you've got all the die-hard Garmin users crowing about how much better the Garmins are, but I've seen many move away from Garmin and buy DeLorme? I think the Garmin camp is nervous a new "prefered choice" is on the horizon and they'll say anything to detract from the unit! It's not a football game, we're not rooting for our teams here!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again...even if the Garmins were around the same price as the DeLorme, I would choose the DeLorme. The DeLorme has a few quirks and needs a few updates, but I recall the Garmins had to better their units upon release as well. Although these are grat units now, DeLorme will be 100% paperless, will have the same direct downloading of caches as the Garmins, will have ALL the great features needed to make this unit "THE" unit for caching PLUS the many extras that Garmin cannot deliver...at a cheaper price! I mean, on it's "itty bitty" screen, I can get hi-res city images, sat imagery, aerial imagery, NOAA charts etc. May be on a smaller screen, but better than NOT being able to at all!!

[+myotis]

A bigger screen allows you to see the big picture and figure out the best way to get to where you are going. This is particularly true off road. But the big picutre also helps you figure out the best way to get to a cache, whcih cache to go to next, and if you need to go to the cache location or somewhere else (as the closest raod is not alawys the right way to get to the cache. Its like the difference between tunnel vision and a full view. I've had itty bitty screens before and having a big screen is the most important advantage of the Garmins over Delorome.

[+Rockin Roddy]

A bigger screen allows you to see the big picture and figure out the best way to get to where you are going. This is particularly true off road. But the big picutre also helps you figure out the best way to get to a cache, whcih cache to go to next, and if you need to go to the cache location or somewhere else (as the closest raod is not alawys the right way to get to the cache. Its like the difference between tunnel vision and a full view. I've had itty bitty screens before and having a big screen is the most important advantage of the Garmins over Delorome.

 

My DeLorme tells me all that your bigger screen shows. I can ask my little screened unit which one is next closest, I can see which direction it's in, I can ask my DeLorme to route me to the next, so I don't need to have a big screen to tell me this, and zooming is a simple solution.

 

We're talking an inch here, it's not like you're getting a "picture window" to look through! I liken your argument to that of the new TVs. Sure my 60" projection has a MUCH bigger screen than my 60" LCD, but my LCD delivers a much better picture which lets me see everything clearer!

 

btw...we ARE discussing the 60 and the PN-40...these screens are pretty close to the same size!

Edited February 4, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+twolpert]

A bigger screen allows you to see the big picture and figure out the best way to get to where you are going. This is particularly true off road. But the big picutre also helps you figure out the best way to get to a cache, whcih cache to go to next, and if you need to go to the cache location or somewhere else (as the closest raod is not alawys the right way to get to the cache. Its like the difference between tunnel vision and a full view. I've had itty bitty screens before and having a big screen is the most important advantage of the Garmins over Delorome.

With regard to location awareness, there is an additional differentiator here. With the PN-40 (and the extra-cost $30/year download subscription), you can have B&W aerial imagery, color aerial imagery, SAT-10m imagery, 1:24K topos, and (where available) hi-res aerial imagery right on the device (albeit on the small screen).

 

I own both a CO (no 60, though) and a PN-40. I have found the imagery to be very valuable in caching, both in urban and back-country settings. In the back-country, it helps with finding the least obstructed route to the cache. In the city, it helps locate the cache relative to the street, parking lot, or whatever. I have even had a couple of those "it's under that tree" moments.

 

Again, not saying that the smaller screen makes no difference. But there are compensations.

[eaparks]

I'll have to completely agree, the bigger screens are much easier to view. Ask anyone over 50 and all you youngsters will eventually live to agree.

 

In your 20's your invinceable; in your 30's you can do anything, in your 40's life is good; in your 50's man I hate having to wear reading glasses; in your 60's you just hope all your parts are still working; in your 70's everyday is a good day.

 

So yes, even a 1/4" more screen area makes a diference in being able to more easily read the screen without reading glasses. Now add a dimily lit screen to this and it greatly compounds the problem, such as with the Colorado and Oregon. I'd like an Oregon but I don't want something I have to have the back light on maximum all the time for me to be able to see it adequately, and yes I have tried.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I'll have to completely agree, the bigger screens are much easier to view. Ask anyone over 50 and all you youngsters will eventually live to agree.

 

In your 20's your invinceable; in your 30's you can do anything, in your 40's life is good; in your 50's man I hate having to wear reading glasses; in your 60's you just hope all your parts are still working; in your 70's everyday is a good day.

 

So yes, even a 1/4" more screen area makes a diference in being able to more easily read the screen without reading glasses. Now add a dimily lit screen to this and it greatly compounds the problem, such as with the Colorado and Oregon. I'd like an Oregon but I don't want something I have to have the back light on maximum all the time for me to be able to see it adequately, and yes I have tried.

 

You seem to back my position. I don't care if the picture is twice the size if you can't see it anyways!

 

Oh, and far from a 20's....lol!!

Edited February 4, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'll have to completely agree, the bigger screens are much easier to view. Ask anyone over 50 and all you youngsters will eventually live to agree.

 

I totally agree with this pedantic truism.

 

However, at 70 I SEE greater utility in having the H-Res City imagery on the PN-40 screen for my around town caching, which I use exclusively nowadays.

 

My choice is for great imagery over much easier to view but inferior visuals.

 

Do you prefer watching I Love Lucy reruns on a 40" TV or a National Geographic presentation on a 32" TV?

[eaparks]

Do you prefer watching I Love Lucy reruns on a 40" TV or a National Geographic presentation on a 32" TV?

 

It's not which one I prefer but which one I can see. If I can't see it adequately on a small screen it doesn't matter what the screen is showing.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'm sorry, at 70 I can still drive to my optometrist for glasses. If not, I might be relegated to a .....

 

I'm just fortunate to not have been afflicted with such an occular malady that I cannot see the PN-40 screen.

 

I sympathize with all those that have such uncorrectable visual problems.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+dadude712]

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

 

However, I still have one questions. Can I add all the airports in my state via a poi for the pn-40 as suggested for the 60csx?

 

Thanks,

dc

[+Rockin Roddy]

I'm sorry, at 70 I can still drive to my optometrist for glasses. If not, I might be relegated to a .....

 

I'm just fortunate to not have been afflicted with such an occular malady that I cannot see the PN-40 screen.

 

I sympathize with all those that have such uncorrectable visual problems.

 

 

Yep, it's insane how badly some cannot see the screen. I hope they have better sight while driving to the cache!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

 

However, I still have one questions. Can I add all the airports in my state via a poi for the pn-40 as suggested for the 60csx?

 

Thanks,

dc

I can't answer that definitively and specifically.

 

However, FWIW, my PN-40 does have included airports for my state. All of them or how many, I don't know. Your state.....?

 

So, I would expect that there are some for your state, but other than that......

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'm sorry, at 70 I can still drive to my optometrist for glasses. If not, I might be relegated to a .....

 

I'm just fortunate to not have been afflicted with such an occular malady that I cannot see the PN-40 screen.

 

I sympathize with all those that have such uncorrectable visual problems.

 

 

Yep, it's insane how badly some cannot see the screen. I hope they have better sight while driving to the cache!

Yeah, and go the caches that I'm going to at a different time.

 

Hey, last night my grandkids did a cache without any screen at all! How's that? I was talking to my daughter by cellphone as I was looking at the google satellite view and she was walking them across the parking lot with my voice guidance. Of course, I could also have had the CDOQQ imagery up on the screen of my PN-40 right here and talked them to the icon as I'm looking at it here.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

 

However, I still have one questions. Can I add all the airports in my state via a poi for the pn-40 as suggested for the 60csx?

 

Thanks,

dc

 

I've noticed even the smallest private airports are on my PN-40 already. I noticed this again just yesterday when going through a small city nearby and saw the grass runway airport was showing up on my unit! I saw a few small airports listed so far that I hadn't even noticed before!!

 

I'll go one step further and say that I loaded the strip from Vegas onto my unit in hi-res city imagery, McCarren shows up perfectly, even the runways and all!! I can see it just like I was flying over it!

Edited February 5, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+CelticDave]

I own the PN-40, the 60csx and the Oregon (my wife's) Out of the three I am liking the Oregon more and more. We cache every day and our current streak is 521 days straight. My 60csx is solid but I like having the duel maps on the Oregon and a few of the other features of the Oregon. I am not sold on the PN-40 at all. Putting all of the really cool imagery onto the memory really really slows the screen draw times. I am not a fan of having to go throu Topo 7 to get everything done. It is hard for anyone to say how it will work because even though we have one in our hands we still don't have the full geocaching functionality to know how great it will be. Based on what I have in hand today, I agree with Starbrand that the Oregon may be your best choice.

[+embra]

Putting all of the really cool imagery onto the memory really really slows the screen draw times.

 

Are your imagery files really big? I've seen slowed redraws if they get up to 1.5GB or more, but as long as I stay down around 1GB or less things seem pretty crisp to me.

 

dadude, here's a screen shot of airport searches centered around my home. It looks like it picks up even the small private airstrips. I will note that the find feature on the PN-40 is pretty slow; it took about a minute and a half to populate two screens' worth of hits. You can search by name/name contains/name begins with to turn up something you have in mind more quickly.

 

 

These are existing POIs in Topo7. It would not be practical to add a large number of custom POIs for use in a PN-40.

[+myotis]

A bigger screen allows you to see the big picture and figure out the best way to get to where you are going. This is particularly true off road. But the big picutre also helps you figure out the best way to get to a cache, whcih cache to go to next, and if you need to go to the cache location or somewhere else (as the closest raod is not alawys the right way to get to the cache. Its like the difference between tunnel vision and a full view. I've had itty bitty screens before and having a big screen is the most important advantage of the Garmins over Delorome.

 

My DeLorme tells me all that your bigger screen shows. I can ask my little screened unit which one is next closest, I can see which direction it's in, I can ask my DeLorme to route me to the next, so I don't need to have a big screen to tell me this, and zooming is a simple solution.

 

We're talking an inch here, it's not like you're getting a "picture window" to look through! I liken your argument to that of the new TVs. Sure my 60" projection has a MUCH bigger screen than my 60" LCD, but my LCD delivers a much better picture which lets me see everything clearer!

 

btw...we ARE discussing the 60 and the PN-40...these screens are pretty close to the same size!

 

The CO has a higher resolution screen and twice as big as the 40. Everything is sharp and crisp.

 

The CO will also auto route to the nearest cache or point to it. But you do not always want to go to the nearest cache. Today on more than one occasion, I did not go to the nearest cache as I was wanting to hit a certian group. It is also nice as once today it was guiding me to the nearest point on a road to a cache and you could not access the cache from that point. I was able to see the problem on my nice big high resolution screen in time to correct myself and go to the right place.

 

Speaking of zooming, with garmin's vector maps you can zoom way in and everything is nice and sharp. You cannot do that on a raster/bitmap.

 

When I cached with my 60CSX out of town, I also brought along my laptop, delorme USB GPS, and Stret Atlas. It enabled me to get the big picture to figure out the best way as the closest is not always the one you want to do. The system worked great. But once I got my Colorado, I will only bring my laptop if I need it to upload my field notes to log my caches. I found the CO was far superior to the laptop, GPS, Streat Atlas combination. Some of the times when I went with my 60CSX, I also needed to bring a paper topo map to get the big picture. I never have that problem with the CO.

[+Rockin Roddy]

A bigger screen allows you to see the big picture and figure out the best way to get to where you are going. This is particularly true off road. But the big picutre also helps you figure out the best way to get to a cache, whcih cache to go to next, and if you need to go to the cache location or somewhere else (as the closest raod is not alawys the right way to get to the cache. Its like the difference between tunnel vision and a full view. I've had itty bitty screens before and having a big screen is the most important advantage of the Garmins over Delorome.

 

My DeLorme tells me all that your bigger screen shows. I can ask my little screened unit which one is next closest, I can see which direction it's in, I can ask my DeLorme to route me to the next, so I don't need to have a big screen to tell me this, and zooming is a simple solution.

 

We're talking an inch here, it's not like you're getting a "picture window" to look through! I liken your argument to that of the new TVs. Sure my 60" projection has a MUCH bigger screen than my 60" LCD, but my LCD delivers a much better picture which lets me see everything clearer!

 

btw...we ARE discussing the 60 and the PN-40...these screens are pretty close to the same size!

 

The CO has a higher resolution screen and twice as big as the 40. Everything is sharp and crisp.

 

The CO will also auto route to the nearest cache or point to it. But you do not always want to go to the nearest cache. Today on more than one occasion, I did not go to the nearest cache as I was wanting to hit a certian group. It is also nice as once today it was guiding me to the nearest point on a road to a cache and you could not access the cache from that point. I was able to see the problem on my nice big high resolution screen in time to correct myself and go to the right place.

 

Speaking of zooming, with garmin's vector maps you can zoom way in and everything is nice and sharp. You cannot do that on a raster/bitmap.

 

When I cached with my 60CSX out of town, I also brought along my laptop, delorme USB GPS, and Stret Atlas. It enabled me to get the big picture to figure out the best way as the closest is not always the one you want to do. The system worked great. But once I got my Colorado, I will only bring my laptop if I need it to upload my field notes to log my caches. I found the CO was far superior to the laptop, GPS, Streat Atlas combination. Some of the times when I went with my 60CSX, I also needed to bring a paper topo map to get the big picture. I never have that problem with the CO.

 

Have you ever had a problem staying on-topic??

[+3doxies]

Currently own both a 60CsX and a PN-40SE. Took them out together in various conditions, terrains, etc. My 50 yo bifocaled eyes could actually see the map details on the 40 as well or better than the 60CsX in all lighting conditions. Screen size has been a non-factor - and that is even going back and comparing to the Oregon-sized screen of the MeriGold. Have cached with friends who own both a Colorado and Oregon - I have a terrible time seeing the displays on either unit, particularly on bright sunlit days. While caching, I can see more than enough detail via either Topo or DOQQ maps to plot a better route to a cache or destination than I can with the 60CsX.

 

Auto-routing is a break even for me. The 60CsX may be a bit faster at initial route/re-route, but the native Topo maps have had a few more roads and POIs than the Street Navigators that I had to pay to add-on.

 

In short, the 60CsX just rides along and never gets out of the car anymore...in fact, it rarely gets turned on.

[BlueDamsel]

Full paperless geocaching: Garmin, check. Delorme, maybe? and when?

Support for Mac now: Garmin, check. Delorme... maybe? and when?

 

I would never, ever buy a device on the future promise of software or functionality. You have to buy a product that works NOW for what you use it for NOW. If you buy on the promise of future releases, you may be waiting years for that upgrade, which when and if you ever receive it, may not function as you had hoped. It is a foolish waste of money to buy a device because they promise someday it will be paperless, but meanwhile, you've now had to spend X amount for a PDA or phone or whatever device you need to get you by until your GPSr goes paperless. So where's the savings?

 

And let me add here, if you haven't given touch screens a chance because you think they are too fragile, think again. Every touch screen device I have ever purchased (others besides Garmin) has worked as advertised and taken a fair amount of abuse. The Garmin is no exception. The Oregon housing is also built up around the touchscreen as added protection. I've already given this GPS a few bangs and thumps and have seen no problems so far. And don't dismiss it as whiz bang.... I can guarantee you I can find a location on a touchscreen much much faster than you will ever be able to with button scrolling. I know, because I've had button-operated GPSrs. They work, but they are awkward compared to a touchscreen. You see a cache along your current route you want to go to instead of the current one? Touch it and you're there. You can't get easier than that.

 

I agree with other posters who like bigger screens. It's one of the reasons I bought the Oregon and why I bought a digital camera with the biggest view screen I can find, why I prefer watching videos on an iPod Classic instead of a Nano, and why I have two full-size "cinema format" monitors on my graphic design computer setup at work instead of one normal sized screen. To dismiss screen size out of hand is ridiculous. It really does matter to some people, in the same way that a dimly lit screen matters to some people and not to others. The big screen of the Oregon is really nice when trying to zero into an area for caching in on the road, and I can say I've had absolutely no problems reading my Oregon's screen both indoors and outdoors at night, in the morning, at dusk, even in full sun. But that's me. And because other people might have problems with this and feel differently than I do, it behooves them to see any unit they are considering turned on, outdoors. It's what I did, so I could satisfy myself that I would be happy with what I was buying.

 

The Oregon may or may not be more expensive than the Delorme depending on which of either model you get. But, it has paperless caching with field notes NOW, Mac support NOW, and I love the functionality of the touchscreen. To me, these extras are worth the cost, saving me time and money in the long run, and something I am getting full use out of. I have been using this device daily since I purchased it and am happy with the navigational routing, the topo maps, the geocaching features and the other functions of the device. And I am not surprised at this. I did my homework, asked a lot of folks questions, looked at all the models from all manufacturers in the stores and compared them online, and narrowed it down to a couple of models I was interested in and went from there.

 

I totally agree that Delorme makes a good product. But there are some on this forum who seem to think that Garmin-bashing (or bashing of any manufacturer) is doing a service to people who are really looking for the best GPS for THEM and are willing to consider all devices that might fit their needs. So it serves to really just speak about what you know on your device and let folks decide for themselves what is important to them. The things here I talk about were things that made a difference to ME in my purchase and have been discussed here, which is why I'm even bringing this up.

 

Some may love the special features that Delorme offers, if so, they should buy them. However, for those looking for some of the features I've mentioned above, Delorme may be a disappointment, and is why I didn't buy one. It is a perfectly fine device in many ways... it just didn't fit the uses I needed it for.

 

I am a happy Garmin owner, and for good reasons.

 

BlueDamsel

Edited February 5, 2009 by BlueDamsel

[+Rockin Roddy]

Full paperless geocaching: Garmin, check. Delorme, maybe? and when?

Support for Mac now: Garmin, check. Delorme... maybe? and when?

 

I would never, ever buy a device on the future promise of software or functionality. You have to buy a product that works NOW for what you use it for NOW. If you buy on the promise of future releases, you may be waiting years for that upgrade, which when and if you ever receive it, may not function as you had hoped. It is a foolish waste of money to buy a device because they promise someday it will be paperless, but meanwhile, you've now had to spend X amount for a PDA or phone or whatever device you need to get you by until your GPSr goes paperless. So where's the savings?

 

And let me add here, if you haven't given touch screens a chance because you think they are too fragile, think again. Every touch screen device I have ever purchased (others besides Garmin) has worked as advertised and taken a fair amount of abuse. The Garmin is no exception. The Oregon housing is also built up around the touchscreen as added protection. I've already given this GPS a few bangs and thumps and have seen no problems so far. And don't dismiss it as whiz bang.... I can guarantee you I can find a location on a touchscreen much much faster than you will ever be able to with button scrolling. I know, because I've had button-operated GPSrs. They work, but they are awkward compared to a touchscreen. You see a cache along your current route you want to go to instead of the current one? Touch it and you're there. You can't get easier than that.

 

I agree with other posters who like bigger screens. It's one of the reasons I bought the Oregon and why I bought a digital camera with the biggest view screen I can find, why I prefer watching videos on an iPod Classic instead of a Nano, and why I have two full-size "cinema format" monitors on my graphic design computer setup at work instead of one normal sized screen. To dismiss screen size out of hand is ridiculous. It really does matter to some people, in the same way that a dimly lit screen matters to some people and not to others. The big screen of the Oregon is really nice when trying to zero into an area for caching in on the road, and I can say I've had absolutely no problems reading my Oregon's screen both indoors and outdoors at night, in the morning, at dusk, even in full sun. But that's me. And because other people might have problems with this and feel differently than I do, it behooves them to see any unit they are considering turned on, outdoors. It's what I did, so I could satisfy myself that I would be happy with what I was buying.

 

The Oregon may or may not be more expensive than the Delorme depending on which of either model you get. But, it has paperless caching with field notes NOW, Mac support NOW, and I love the functionality of the touchscreen. To me, these extras are worth the cost, saving me time and money in the long run, and something I am getting full use out of. I have been using this device daily since I purchased it and am happy with the navigational routing, the topo maps, the geocaching features and the other functions of the device. And I am not surprised at this. I did my homework, asked a lot of folks questions, looked at all the models from all manufacturers in the stores and compared them online, and narrowed it down to a couple of models I was interested in and went from there.

 

I totally agree that Delorme makes a good product. But there are some on this forum who seem to think that Garmin-bashing (or bashing of any manufacturer) is doing a service to people who are really looking for the best GPS for THEM and are willing to consider all devices that might fit their needs. So it serves to really just speak about what you know on your device and let folks decide for themselves what is important to them. The things here I talk about were things that made a difference to ME in my purchase and have been discussed here, which is why I'm even bringing this up.

 

Some may love the special features that Delorme offers, if so, they should buy them. However, for those looking for some of the features I've mentioned above, Delorme may be a disappointment, and is why I didn't buy one. It is a perfectly fine device in many ways... it just didn't fit the uses I needed it for.

 

I am a happy Garmin owner, and for good reasons.

 

BlueDamsel

 

Another one not sure what the topic is??

 

On a side note....if you're referring to me when you state about the DeLorme special features and buying them, I own a DeLorme PN-40 and LOVE IT!! Also, Garmin-bashing?? Really?? Maybe it's more like letting people know there ARE other products than the "holy Garmin". You guys come in here and preach Garmin even when you don't know the topic for crying out loud. And all use the same argument...screen is too small. Then you bash DeLorme by making it sound like they won't deliver on the promised update! Just who is bashing whom? I truly get the feeling some feel "threatened" by the DeLorme and feel they need to defend Garmin at all costs....again, we're not rooting for our favorite sports teams.

 

Let's look at the facts of the PN-40 and the 60Csx (what this topic is about), here's what the OP asked:

 

-total price under $400

-accurate in woods

-good on the road

-good for taking with me flying. (I'm a pilot, airport poi?)

-MAC support would be wonderful, but I can use bootcamp

 

Total price under $400: Yep, both units. (although, the 60csx needs maps and this may bring it to the $400 limit depending on where you buy and sales).

 

Accurate in woods: Yep, both units.

 

Good on roads: Out of box, the PN-40 will route, the 60csx will need maps to do this, but yep, both will do this.

 

Good for flying: DeLorme has airports already listed as POIs, not sure about the Garmin 60csx.

 

Mac support: Yep, both! DeLorme has a workaround at present and is promsing improvements in the update, Garmin already does smoothly.

 

Those are the answers to the questions, the rest is bonus:

 

DeLorme can provide maps and imagery which can be very useful for the OP for caching, driving and flying. Aerial imagery and hi-res city imagery with views will let the OP know exactly where he is (which building did he just fly over etc)...not available on the 60csx.

 

DeLorme has the ability to paperless cache (pretty much now, will be fully paperless with the update), the 60csx??

 

DeLorme has a unit which, left alone is a GREAT unit with plenty of bells and whistles, but is promised to be even better with the pending update. The 60csx will not likley be improved upon due to the release of the OR and CO. The 60csx is a fine unit and one many tout as the unit for caching, but I think technology is soon going to make the 60csx obsolete. In short, the PN-40 is a unit with more bells and whistles than the 60csx, and the PN-40 will soon be made even better...will Garmin do the same with the 60csx?? No, you're buying what you'll get, no new features promised or even implied.

 

If I were buying a unit now and had the same limitations the OP stated, I would be in the DeLorme camp (but then, I would still be in the DeLorme camp even if we were comparing the OR or CO to the PN-40). The unit is intriguing now, but will really shine soon (yes, I believe the DeLorme team when they say they'll deliver the update...way too much has been discussed about it to merely be hype). Especially with the comparisson on hand, the DeLorme wins hands down for me, and I am passing along my experience! I don't own a 60csx, but have been with friends who own one and have seen it in action plenty of times.

 

Now, the OP also stated he isn't opposed to entertaining thoughts of other units. So, just for kicks, let's try the OR or CO on for size:

 

Under $400...DeLorme, yes! Garmin CO or OR, NOPE!

 

Accurate in woods: Yep, all!

 

Good on the roads: DeLorme, Yep. CO or OR, not sure if you need to buy maps for either units, but I think you would!

 

Good for flying: DeLorme, YEP. CO or OR...I think so, but not sure here.

 

Mac support: Yep, all around! Garmins will work with Mac easier, but all will, and DeLorme is working on improvements!

 

In short, only the DeLorme fits the budget!

 

Lastly, buying on future promise: If it were just that the DeLorme was a box and did basic functions NOW, but promised to make it much better, I'd say no. However, DeLorme is a GREAT unit out of the box NOW, and promises improvements which will truly make the PN-40 THE unit for caching (IMHO). I take the DeLorme team at their word on the update and am more than happy with my unit while awaiting the release. Even if DeLorme never delivers (which I am fully confident they will, and soon), the PN-40 would still be the unit of choice for me!!

[BlueDamsel]

 

Another one not sure what the topic is??

 

On a side note....if you're referring to me when you state about the DeLorme special features and buying them, I own a DeLorme PN-40 and LOVE IT!! Also, Garmin-bashing?? Really?? Maybe it's more like letting people know there ARE other products than the "holy Garmin". You guys come in here and preach Garmin even when you don't know the topic for crying out loud. And all use the same argument...screen is too small. Then you bash DeLorme by making it sound like they won't deliver on the promised update! Just who is bashing whom? I truly get the feeling some feel "threatened" by the DeLorme and feel they need to defend Garmin at all costs....again, we're not rooting for our favorite sports teams.

 

The topic is PN-40s vs 60CSx, and since the OP said he'd consider other units, my post addressed exactly that.

 

Also, the OP requested friendly responses. Are you on topic in this regard? You get very defensive when some folks disagree with the "holy Delorme" even when it doesn't provide some of the features the OP requested. I was not referring to just you in my posts... I was referring to everyone who is not completely objective about their comments or seems to have a company agenda. There are a lot of posters of this type on these forums.

 

And yes, I know the topic, having looked at every unit described thus far in this thread when I was deciding on a purchase. I am simply describing to the OP the reasons I did not buy the unit IN THE TOPIC and why I felt some others might be a better choice for him to fit his criteria.

 

Regarding promised updates, I would not have purchased a Garmin either if they promised Mac support or paperless caching but didn't include it now. It has nothing to do with Garmin, or Delorme for that matter, as a company. It has everything to do with what I was looking for in a device and which unit currently had it. I didn't choose a 60CSx either, because the paperless functions would have required me to go through third party software, which becomes problematic on a Macintosh. Similarly, having to use Topo 7 to get stuff on a Delorme is a problem for the same reason if it is not fully Mac-functional. One of the things I love about the Oregon, and a huge reason for buying it, is I don't need ANYONE'S software, Garmin or third-party, to get cache information onto my GPSr. As long as I have the USB cable, which I keep in my caching bag, I can hook up to any computer, anywhere, and get the .gpx files I need onto my GPSr. This was huge for me. It might not matter to some people (there are folks that love GSAK, no matter what device they are using), but this mattered to me.

 

As far as price, there are people who have been able to purchase a 60CSx for $159-$229 recently on Amazon. I paid less than $350 for my Oregon including all the maps that are currently on it. List price means nothing.

 

I'm really glad you're happy with your Delorme, and if the OP decides it's the unit for him, happy trails! But what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and getting OFF TOPIC by getting on someone's case because they prefer a larger screen really isn't helpful to anyone, especially when this is a feature that matters to some people.

 

No hard feelings - happy caching.

BlueDamsel

Edited February 5, 2009 by BlueDamsel

[+twolpert]

Speaking of zooming, with garmin's vector maps you can zoom way in and everything is nice and sharp. You cannot do that on a raster/bitmap.

While this is a true statement, I don't think it accurately reflects the situation on the PN-40. First off, the topo and routable road data on the PN-40 is vector, not raster. (There is something hybrid about the display mechanism, though.) Secondly, imagery on the PN-40 is "cut" at multiple zoom levels, so even raster data remains (reasonably) clear as you zoom in. The system is not perfect, but it is better than the above statement makes it sound.

 

Sorry for the injection of facts. Feel free to resume flaming now.