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Logging without signing the log


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I personally will not log unless I can sign the log. Sometimes it takes me getting a new log and baggie to repair damaged logs. I have even found a cache and was physically unable to get it open so I wrote a note. Which brings me to my issue.

 

I made a very good magnetic bolt container. Complete with the bolt head and washer to attach to the front of the sign and the threads, nut, and washer on the back side. I have had the last two people mention in their log that they were not able to find the log though they said they found the cache. Part of the hide is that if you find the bolt head there is not log in that, slowing them down with a dummy cache of sorts. I have even handed the cache portion to my friends and they cant figure out how to open it. I don't think I am going to cause a stink. I guess they missed out on part of the fun of the find. I know I never get that found it feeling like when I'm signing the log.

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I have had the last two people mention in their log that they were not able to find the log though they said they found the cache.
Did they log is as a Find?

 

If it were my cache and someone told me they were unable to find the log but claimed a Find anyway I'd delete their Find and email them with an invitation to try again, maybe with an offer of a hint if they wanted it.

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I have had the last two people mention in their log that they were not able to find the log though they said they found the cache.
Did they log is as a Find?

 

If it were my cache and someone told me they were unable to find the log but claimed a Find anyway I'd delete their Find and email them with an invitation to try again, maybe with an offer of a hint if they wanted it.

 

Yes they logged the find. "Found the cache but not log." "Like these hides."

 

For some reason I would think that if you liked this hobby and had 500+ finds you might take it more seriously. I guess that its more about the numbers for those folks.

 

I am pretty cautious about the logs I read on some caches. I see people just trying to boost their stats. Me personally I would not want my stats to be poisoned by any ill gotten logs. I play it conservatively as much as I would like to pad my numbers. Some folks think that they found the cache (or what appears to be the cache) and they log the find. Too me signing the log is part of the fun. I know there are those that simply refuse to open a nano and sign the log.

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Should I up the difficulty if there is a "dummy" cache and it seems that some have a hard time finding the log? I think I am going to check on the cache in the morning to make sure it is still there.

 

The difficulty is currently 1.5 mainly because I was under the impression that the bolt hide was almost a gimme. Maybe not.

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Like CYBret, I'm kinda obsessed with having my moniker in the log. For me, being unable to do so, regardless of the reason, constitutes me not logging a find. However, I don't exercise these principles with regard to the caches that I own, because I recognize that not everyone has the same definition of "Found". Unless I discover some explicit intent to deceive, I figure their definition of "Found" is as good as mine, and their log stays.

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IMHO: sign log, get smiley. They didn't sign the log. This one does seem a bit devious. I would increase the difficulty. And I would delete the 'found it'.

In another thread is the tale of cachers who found the pen, and the velcro, but not the log book. They assumed it was missing (as I did when I first encountered one of them.)

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We are new to past time and we really enjoy it. We have only found 1 cache were we couldn't sign the log and it was a nano and try as we could we could not get the log out of the container another cache took us longer to get the log back into the container than it did to find it in the first place.

 

Good hunting :laughing:

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IMHO: sign log, get smiley. They didn't sign the log. This one does seem a bit devious. I would increase the difficulty. And I would delete the 'found it'.

In another thread is the tale of cachers who found the pen, and the velcro, but not the log book. They assumed it was missing (as I did when I first encountered one of them.)

 

I would also write at the cachepage that logs without signature in the logbook will be delided.

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If getting at the log is part of the challenge then indeed signing the log would be a prerequisite to logging a find.

 

I have found logs that where unsignable because they were so wet that they would disintegrate the moment I put pen or pencil to them. In those instances I will sign a piece of paper and add it to the container.

 

I do recall two instances where the logs were unsignable and the containers could not fit an extra piece of paper. In both cases I photographed the container in my hand and logged a find. I figure the sport is geoCACHING, not geoLOGGING and I found the cache, so I logged the find.

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IMHO: sign log, get smiley. They didn't sign the log. This one does seem a bit devious. I would increase the difficulty. And I would delete the 'found it'.

In another thread is the tale of cachers who found the pen, and the velcro, but not the log book. They assumed it was missing (as I did when I first encountered one of them.)

 

I would also write at the cachepage that logs without signature in the logbook will be delided.

 

Ya - what the guy above me said. We have 2 caches right now that are DNF's that will be finds when the weather warms up. With both of them we could see / feel the cache but ice has them stuck in place and we didn't want to break the container. If our name isn't in the log = we don't claim it.

 

BTW - I Live along way from you - please PM me what is so tricky with your bolt if you could.

 

Edit - one of my caches is kind of like yours. I put the must sign log as an a requirement.

5ad3edf1-395b-4924-ab50-5eb10dc6c387.jpg

Edited by WatchDog2020
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if you liked this hobby and had 500+ finds you might take it more seriously.

 

Bolding mine: if I ever start take this hobby seriously, I'll quit. :laughing:

 

If part of the challenge is figuring out how to get to the log, the cache page should mention that likely in some form of, "must sign log to log find". That's a clue right there.

 

That said I'd probably leave the existing "finds" alone, and up the difficulty and add the disclaimer....

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IMHO: sign log, get smiley. They didn't sign the log. This one does seem a bit devious. I would increase the difficulty. And I would delete the 'found it'.

In another thread is the tale of cachers who found the pen, and the velcro, but not the log book. They assumed it was missing (as I did when I first encountered one of them.)

 

I would also write at the cachepage that logs without signature in the logbook will be delided.

 

Ya - what the guy above me said. We have 2 caches right now that are DNF's that will be finds when the weather warms up. With both of them we could see / feel the cache but ice has them stuck in place and we didn't want to break the container. If our name isn't in the log = we don't claim it.

 

BTW - I Live along way from you - please PM me what is so tricky with your bolt if you could.

 

For me, claiming a find (posting a found it log) is between the cache owner and myself and has nothing to do with how others play the game. I've had a couple of instances where I found the remains of a container, and others where I found the spot where the cache was hidden (and had subsequently been muggled) but the CO wrote to me that I should go ahead and claim the find. At the end of the day, what the CO deems sufficent to claim a find trumps anytihng else. Whether or not I"ll initiate contact with the CO often depends on whether I'm likely going to visit the area again anytime soon. I usually try to mention something about the state of the cache, especially if it's a cache that isn't found very often. That not only tells the CO whether or not maintenance might need to be done but also tells other potential finders whether it's worth looking for the cache.

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I've had a couple that I've been to where the cache has become water logged and the log book damaged. I've tried to sign but if I can't and it's out of my control that I couldn't (ie weather damage, missing log book) then I don't see the point in waiting for the cache owner to place a new log book just so I can sign it and claim it as a find. For some owners that would take months! I still claim it as a find via a photo if I can (if not a descriptive email to the owner suffices) and many owners seem ok with that.

 

But if I arrived at a cache and there was a log book but I couldn't be bothered to sign (even though a pencil/pen was provided) and nothing was stopping me (ie weather, health, aliens) then my conscience would eat away at me and I wouldn't log it as a find. It's all part of the game isn't it?

i would feel a bit uneasy about people logging finds without signing the book or giving a reason why they couldn't [if i were a cache owner] but it's more on their conscience than mine

Edited by JoJoZombie
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"If getting at the log is part of the challenge then indeed signing the log would be a prerequisite to logging a find.

 

I have found logs that where unsignable because they were so wet that they would disintegrate the moment I put pen or pencil to them. In those instances I will sign a piece of paper and add it to the container.

 

I do recall two instances where the logs were unsignable and the containers could not fit an extra piece of paper. In both cases I photographed the container in my hand and logged a find. I figure the sport is geoCACHING, not geoLOGGING and I found the cache, so I logged the find."

 

This i agree with completely. In my opinion the main idea of geocaching is taking a set of coords,figuring out how to get there, and finding the cache hidden there. The whole idea of deleting online finds at a whim is disenheartening and unethical in my opinion...however if if it is obvious that the one who logged the find has NO CLUE as to where the cache is or didn't even attempt it then that is a different story!

 

As for not being able to physically sign the logbook because of:

1.The log was full

2.The log was too wet

3.The whole contents of the cache were mildewed or trashed.

4.Maybe my pen really did quit working...or i left it at the vehicle

...and the cache hider deletes a online "found it" log...well maybe if the cache hider spent more time maintaining his cache instead of spending time "online" and pondering whether or not a find was valid....

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How I play the game:

I would not log a find if I didn't sign the log. If I have to do cache repair to be able to sign, that's part of the game. If I have to walk all the way back to the car to get the pen I forgot ... well, that's unfortunately part of my absent-mindedness. Cache with a buddy, y'all, they might remember a pen!

 

How I expect others to play the game:

I have deleted one log for not signing the logbook. They were a real jerk, claiming the log was soaked and I was a neglecting cache owners (and blah blah blah). I went to the cache to verify his find and, sure enough, dry logbook had no jerky name. So I deleted his log with extreme prejudice (meaning I grinned with satisfaction while I did it). If somebody says, "I forgot a pen" I've let their find stay and not thought any more about it. If something ever leaves me in doubt, I could just email them and they can answer questions about the cache. No big deal.

 

I would delete faux find logs like this because that's a Note, not a Find. Thankfully, it's not my cache hide so it's not my jurisdiction. :laughing:

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I do recall two instances where the logs were unsignable and the containers could not fit an extra piece of paper. In both cases I photographed the container in my hand and logged a find.

 

this is an excellent idea that I would not have thought of. I'll make sure to ALWAYS carry my digital camera with me from now on when caching, just in case.

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If it appears that I otherwise found the cache (container with label and some swag) AND there isn't anything to indicate I should look further for a logbook. I might assume the logsheet was missing and I would add one of my own.

 

If there was no label or clear indication I had found the cache I would assume I needed to seach further.

 

I can see how some might be confused. I sign the log to indicate I have found the cache though.

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This is the topic that just won't go away. Challenge and fun is the hunt, logging either on line or in log book is just a mere social gesture. I log only to thank owner for his/her efforts.

 

Oh I'll go and throw some 'boyscout water' on the fire - We like to read the cache logs while at the cache. Spent well over an hour at one doing it. The better the cache - usually the better the logs.

 

Cut and Paste from Groundspeak FAQ

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

Edited by WatchDog2020
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This is the topic that just won't go away. Challenge and fun is the hunt, logging either on line or in log book is just a mere social gesture. I log only to thank owner for his/her efforts.

 

Stick around and observe for awhile and you will see that there's a lot of topics that come up multiple times. Understand that to the person asking, they are new and the information is as value to them as it was to you when you first encountered it.

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If it appears that I otherwise found the cache (container with label and some swag) AND there isn't anything to indicate I should look further for a logbook. I might assume the logsheet was missing and I would add one of my own.

 

If there was no label or clear indication I had found the cache I would assume I needed to seach further.

 

I can see how some might be confused. I sign the log to indicate I have found the cache though.

 

How about leaving a congratulatory note in the first compartment thanking them for looking for your cache gently informing them that their hunt is not over. Try to be nice about this. A ha, ha, ha might get your bolt recycled.

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... I have had the last two people mention in their log that they were not able to find the log though they said they found the cache. Part of the hide is that if you find the bolt head there is not log in that, slowing them down with a dummy cache of sorts. I have even handed the cache portion to my friends and they cant figure out how to open it. I don't think I am going to cause a stink. I guess they missed out on part of the fun of the find. I know I never get that found it feeling like when I'm signing the log.

 

For me the fun is finding the cache. Call that the inside of the intended container. I could care less about the log, signing the log, or if a log even exists to sign. However I sign the log because it's expected as "proof" of the find. If the log is full, missing,or what I won't lose any sleep at all over not signing it.

 

That all said it sounds like your finders haven't even found the cache and thus haven't earned a find. That's a "thanks for trying, please change your log to a note, and I'll be happy to give you a hint" email.

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How about leaving a congratulatory note in the first compartment thanking them for looking for your cache gently informing them that their hunt is not over. Try to be nice about this. A ha, ha, ha might get your bolt recycled.

 

Yeah I thought about doing something like that on a future hide.

 

I didn't mean to come across as taking this too serious. One thing you can't do is make people play by any sort of rules. I don't think I am going to delete any logs. I did raise the difficulty by 1 full star and added that part of the fun was the container. I hope that will encourage people to be more involved with finding the log book.

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How about leaving a congratulatory note in the first compartment thanking them for looking for your cache gently informing them that their hunt is not over. Try to be nice about this. A ha, ha, ha might get your bolt recycled.

 

Yeah I thought about doing something like that on a future hide.

 

I didn't mean to come across as taking this too serious. One thing you can't do is make people play by any sort of rules. I don't think I am going to delete any logs. I did raise the difficulty by 1 full star and added that part of the fun was the container. I hope that will encourage people to be more involved with finding the log book.

 

That is probably the best approach to just let the non-loggers go but I know what you mean, it can irk you. As long as the cache is still there, it's never too late for an alteration. I've been known to go back two or more times to a cache to make adjustments and that I think really helps the quality of the experience in some cases. Even in the best planned caches, you need to inject a human into the equation and learn from what happens. It is hard to get everything right in the beginning sometimes.

 

You put a lot of work into your cache. You invested your time, energy, and money to put this cache out there for others to find. You shouldn't feel bad about being disappointed when seekers circumvent the intended experience. Some of this type of thing can be controlled by altering the cache page or the hide itself. Some of it is just how people play. I've found to reach some level of satisfaction with your hides, it is best to to try to learn the difference between the two and let things slide. This definitely took me awhile.

 

Please keep after it. Without people who devote their creativity and time for pleasure of others, this would be a mighty boring game.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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I personally will not log unless I can sign the log. Sometimes it takes me getting a new log and baggie to repair damaged logs. I have even found a cache and was physically unable to get it open so I wrote a note. Which brings me to my issue.

 

I made a very good magnetic bolt container. Complete with the bolt head and washer to attach to the front of the sign and the threads, nut, and washer on the back side. I have had the last two people mention in their log that they were not able to find the log though they said they found the cache. Part of the hide is that if you find the bolt head there is not log in that, slowing them down with a dummy cache of sorts. I have even handed the cache portion to my friends and they cant figure out how to open it. I don't think I am going to cause a stink. I guess they missed out on part of the fun of the find. I know I never get that found it feeling like when I'm signing the log.

unless they sign the log it is not a find. I have placed caches along with dummy caches, but I my dummy cache what would be the log has a message the reads "This is not the cache keep looking"

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For me, claiming a find (posting a found it log) is between the cache owner and myself and has nothing to do with how others play the game. I've had a couple of instances where I found the remains of a container, and others where I found the spot where the cache was hidden (and had subsequently been muggled) but the CO wrote to me that I should go ahead and claim the find. At the end of the day, what the CO deems sufficent to claim a find trumps anytihng else.

It takes two people to decide what is sufficient to claim a find - the CO and the finder. If the CO feels that signing the log is critical to claiming a find, he would be justified in deleting logs no matter the state of the cache the finder found. I believe we have very few owners who are such puritans that they would delete logs where the finder had a good reason for not signing. In the case of the OP, it seems that cachers were finding a decoy rather than the part of the cache that had the log in it and they failed to continue to search. That would seem a legitimate reason to delete logs. On the other hand, if a finder only wants to log 'Found It' online when they have signed the actual physical log and they posted a note to indicate they found the cache but couldn't sign the log then there is nothing a cache owner can do to force them to change their note to a 'Found It'. (I guess they could delete the note, but they couldn't force the finder to relog it as 'Found It'). While there are very few puritan cache owners, there are some puritan cache finders as show by several of the responses to this thread.

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Should I up the difficulty if there is a "dummy" cache and it seems that some have a hard time finding the log? I think I am going to check on the cache in the morning to make sure it is still there.

 

The difficulty is currently 1.5 mainly because I was under the impression that the bolt hide was almost a gimme. Maybe not.

I'd say minimum of 3 stars difficulty...but it all depends on if you want people to find it or if you want people to be frustrated and keep logging it without finding it.

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Challenge and fun is the hunt, logging either on line or in log book is just a mere social gesture.

An interesting interpretation, which I assume works well for you. :)

On a related note, there are probably 2 dozen+ caches out there with my name in the log, and no corresponding online log. Those caches sucked so bad, when I got to my computer, I figured "Why Bother?" The owner used no effort to create it. I'll use the same amount of effort to log it. (I have since learned to simply walk away without leaving any trace that I was ever at those most crappiest of hides. :laughing:

 

BTW, if you really want a topic to go away, posting to it is counter productive. :huh:

Edited by Clan Riffster
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How do they know it is the cache if they don't have the log to sign?

 

I've added a scrap of business card on occasion when I forgot/lost a pen on the way to the hide. I've written on scraps of paper when the provided log is unsignable, but that's rarely the case with gel pens and sharpies available.

Twice I was unable to open a container that was badly rusted shut, so I did the unthinkable and signed the outside of the container instead. :laughing:

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Someone stated earlier that when a log is unavailable, they photograph themselves and post that as proof of their find, and I echoed that that was an excellent idea. However, if you're the type of cacher who doesn't normally carry a camera along, then I think it is vital to do all that is possible to leave some sort of evidence of your find if you'd like to receive proper credit for it.

 

If you're unprepared to provide a replacement log, then sign any scrap piece of paper you might have on hand and put it in the container. Wimseyguy also had a good idea to leave a business card behind, and I have actually encountered that before in a cache I had found. I know it sounds as though I'm kinda anal about this, but I'm a bit of a purist. It's sort of like punching the timeclock at work: if you want to get paid for being there, then you better punch in.

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Someone stated earlier that when a log is unavailable, they photograph themselves and post that as proof of their find, and I echoed that that was an excellent idea. However, if you're the type of cacher who doesn't normally carry a camera along, then I think it is vital to do all that is possible to leave some sort of evidence of your find if you'd like to receive proper credit for it.

 

If you're unprepared to provide a replacement log, then sign any scrap piece of paper you might have on hand and put it in the container. Wimseyguy also had a good idea to leave a business card behind, and I have actually encountered that before in a cache I had found. I know it sounds as though I'm kinda anal about this, but I'm a bit of a purist. It's sort of like punching the timeclock at work: if you want to get paid for being there, then you better punch in.

 

I hate the time clock. I was 43 the first time I encountered one. I still find it hard to remember to shove that stupid card in the dang slot. If I wasn't there then who the hell has been doing all my work?

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I like the people that use the "I saw the cache so I can log it" excuse when the cache is rated 4 or more stars and up in a tree. Like, give me a break. No effort, no smiley. You can't possibly think you're entitled to getting a 4 star terrain smiley if you didn't climb the dadgum tree. I don't actively audit my hides but on the odd chance that I did, I'd delete all logs that didn't have a corresponding name on the written log, or cache container, in some fashion. Does that make me a hard*ss? Don't care.

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I really balk at the idea of putting something on the cache page like, "You must sign the log to get credit for this find." To me, that's just part of the game. It's been there since the beginning, "Take something, leave something, sign the logbook."

 

A few weeks ago someone "found" one of my caches. It's in a very urban setting and their online log said something like, "We knew where the cache was but there were too many people around so we didn't sign it." For me, that's just part of the game. There's no shame in taking a DNF in a situation like that and--for me--those make for some great stories.

 

Every log on a cache page--whether a find, DNF, note or whatever--is the story of what you experienced at the cache. The push to log finds at them all shortchanges the fun of those experiences, in my opinion.

 

Bret

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Signing the logbook is part of the hobby. It's a verification mechanism and provides reasonable proof that the online claim of a find is legitimate. Providing other forms of proof, while valid, complicates the process and is discouraged unless there are extenuating circumstances. This site does ask that cache owners delete bogus logs and the logbook signing facilitates reconciliation.

 

However, many owners will proudly state they've never deleted a log nor will they ever reconcile a logbook. If Groundspeak allows them this, and they do, then there's not much I can do about it other than frown.

 

OTOH, we do require the signing of the logbook in our caches in order to claim a find online and when we discover a bogus log we address it. AFAIK, there has never been an issue with any of our caches to the point where a properly prepared catcher wasn't able to properly claim a legitimate find.

 

BTW, if I ever come across a cache that was wet and it was so small that I was unable to stuff a piece of paper with our handle and date in it, I'd probably be simply putting it on our ignore list. Those that are that small generally find their way there anyway--wet or not, full or not--and are not logged even if I did find them and sign the log.

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I have plans to identify the dummy cache at my hide. I am going to laser identify "Keep Looking" on the dummy cache. I was not prepared for this type of response. I guess I thought everyone has seen a nano bolt hide. But maybe mine is just different enough to throw folks off the trail.

 

It seems as though we have gotten the first responders out of the way and are on to the general caching crowd. I am going to do some more cache page tweaks and try to elude to the fact that the cache may seem easy but is may be more difficult that first thought.

 

One of the people that has claimed a find but could not sign the log has done this same thing on many other caches in the area. I can honestly say I earned all 202 of my finds. They all have my signature on them. I have no problem passing on a cache I don't want to hunt or DNF on a hunt I give an honest try. Yes I have not logged every DNF but I do log most of them. Sometimes I don't give it an honest try and I really don't feel the need to log unless its a 1x1 and should be found with little effort.

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Whenever I see people using the word "proof" I imagine they think they are doing something other than having fun. If you need to "prove" that you were at the geocache then you have issues that have nothing to do with geocaching or having fun. When I see people "scratching their name with a stick and some dirt" to "prove" they were there I see someone wanting this activity to be something it isn't, it is just supposed to be fun.

Finding a geocache means absolutley nothing and that applies no matter how deeply you have tied your sense of worth to your find or hide count or your geocaching persona.

When I see people "proving" they "found a geocache" I always wonder, who needs this proof? It is pretty obvious that some people distrust even themselves, they probably have to go look in logbooks to be sure they weren't lying. :bad:

I delete logs in a hearbeat, proof or not.

If someone has a negative impact on other searchers then I delete the log, simple. If someone tries to "prove" they found my geocache they are wasting their time, I don't accept proof. My rule is simple, if you have a negative impact on other searchers I will delete your log. Egregious spoilers, tracking numbers, access out of hours, claiming a find when the cache was not found, every one of these will get your log deleted. If you forgot your pencil your log is fine because I am not measuring your integrity nor am I looking for proof that you visited, I trust people and I trust myself, proof is for those who do not trust others and do not trust themselves.

So go ahead and keep signing your "proofs", they mean about as much as finding a geocache, nothing.

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Challenge and fun is the hunt, logging either on line or in log book is just a mere social gesture.

An interesting interpretation, which I assume works well for you. :lol:

On a related note, there are probably 2 dozen+ caches out there with my name in the log, and no corresponding online log. Those caches sucked so bad, when I got to my computer, I figured "Why Bother?" The owner used no effort to create it. I'll use the same amount of effort to log it. (I have since learned to simply walk away without leaving any trace that I was ever at those most crappiest of hides. :bad:

 

BTW, if you really want a topic to go away, posting to it is counter productive. :lol:

 

I would have nothing else to do on conference calls :lol:

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My general feelings on the matter have to do with whether it is reasonably possible to sign the log or not. If you can touch the container (and are certain that it is the container), and for whatever reason you can't get it open, I would call it a find, with photographic or very descriptive evidence.

 

There was a cache of mine that was frozen deep in some ice earlier this winter - I couldn't get to it to fix it for a little over a week. Consequently, I was temporarily accepting found it logs with either a picture or a very descriptive e-mail about the hide. I got to it, fixed it, and now I want something written in the log again.

 

I highly doubt that I would delete somebody's found it log though - I'm not like that. I even let a huge spoiler log stand on one of my puzzle caches.

 

As for me - If at all possible, I will sign the log (I spent a half an hour chipping a cache out of some ice yesterday). If I think that my efforts to sign the log will in some way damage the cache, I won't bother - I'll take a picture, and claim the find. I can't think of any instances of this happening though - That's just what I would do.

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I'm in the "must sign log" camp.

 

I feel like I really haven't found the cache unless my name is on the physical log. There are only a couple of instances where this didn't happen.

 

One was a log too wet and disintegrated to sign, which fell apart as soon as I unrolled it. I signed a new paper, put it in the cache, and emailed the owner to explain the problem, who then went out and did maintenance on his cache.

 

A couple have been nanos which had full logs, in which case I replaced the entire log, and emailed the CO to ask if he wanted the full log back (most don't, but I like to ask). In all of those cases, the CO's were VERY happy I replaced a log for them and they didn't have to go out and do maintenance.

 

In one instance, there was a mystery (virtual with a nano with ALRs). I got the answers to the virtual portion but could not find the nano. When I got back to log my DNF, I saw that the CO was allowing a find if the virtual answers were emailed, because the nano had gone missing, the CO had verified it was missing and had not had a chance to replace it yet. So, I logged a find on that one. Still felt weird not to sign the log, but I'd played by the CO rules, so, it counted.

 

I have found several caches where I saw the box, which could not have been anything but a cache (in a couple of instances, you could see the Official Geocache stickers or writing on it) but for whatever reason I couldn't open to sign... too high to reach, stuck in ice, etc. In those cases, I have posted a note and not a DNF, so the cache owner knows his cache is still there, but I don't add the smiley to my list.

 

For me, t's not about the smiley, it's about finding the cache and signing the log.

 

But this is just me. Everyone's got to do what they are comfortable with.

 

BlueDamsel

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...I see someone wanting this activity to be something it isn't, it is just supposed to be fun.

I'm wondering what you think this hobby is supposed to be. I'm also wondering why anyone would think anything fun can't have simple rules. Everything has rules.

By rules I assume you mean these:

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

  1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
  2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
  3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

So why is rule #2 so important yet you can ignore rule #3 with impunity. If you are for rules, you should be consistent and be for all rules.

 

I tend to view this like wavector. This is just a simple game of hide and seek. You go look and you find caches. Most people will sign the log in the cache when they find it. Some may not always bring a pen or extra paper to use if the log is wet or missing. Some my not want to deal with the little scroll in a nano that is hard to get out and even harder to put back. Whether or not they signed the log they may want to log their experience on geocaching.com. If they found the cache, they will use the Found It log. If they didn't find the cache they will use a DNF or a note. Cache owners are instructed to remove bogus logs. For most than means if the log looks suspicious they may delete it. If the logger says that it was legitimate, the best proof would be that their name is in the physical log. If the owner intended you to meet a physical or mental challenge to retrieve the cache or to open it, then I'd agree that a Found It log does not just mean you found the cache but that you met the challenge the CO set out for you. I'd prefer that these be listed as mystery/unknown like ALR caches. However, since a signature would prove you met the challenge and since the puritans insist that you must always sign the log, TPTB have decided there is no additional requirement and these can be listed as traditional cache; and you don't need to say, "If you don't sign the physical log I will delete your find."

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By rules I assume you mean ...

You assume wrong.

 

I mean like:

  • Trade Kindly.
  • Don't move the cache or take it home.
  • Don't expose the hiding spot to muggles.
  • Don't post spoilers.
  • Leave the hiding spot and groundzero as you found it or better.
  • Etc. etc.

Not everyone follows these, but then again not everyone follows basic decorum in everyday life either. None of the above interferes with or runs counter to having fun in this hobby. Of course, some folks' idea of fun can even be criminal, but that's simply a straw man to head off that tangent.

 

There are a few exceptions to the above, but in general following the above rules will make things better for the cache owner and those seekers who follow. The logbook is there for a reason. This site doesn't even allow for an exception to the logbook. Why would it be so important to this site if it were so "optional" as some view it?

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Like CYBret, I'm kinda obsessed with having my moniker in the log. For me, being unable to do so, regardless of the reason, constitutes me not logging a find. However, I don't exercise these principles with regard to the caches that I own, because I recognize that not everyone has the same definition of "Found". Unless I discover some explicit intent to deceive, I figure their definition of "Found" is as good as mine, and their log stays.

Ditto for me

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