"bad" geocache containers - what to do

[+SMN703]

This weekend my buddy and I went caching on a weekend trip - cached the entire way to our destination, and then all around that town, spent the night and cached on the way home....

 

We came across so many cache's that were in such bad containers, many in the same city, some by the same person... And I wondered what to do/say (if anything)... I wonder if the person really understands the game.

 

Here is an example - and this is what ALL of them were.... Ziplock bag - not the good quality freezer ones but the cheap $1 store sandwich ones, with a mini spiral notebook, pen, and swag inside.... The bags had holes in them (probably from being pulled out of their spots and dropped back in)... Two of them even had the whole top (the thicker part where they seal shut) torn off and hanging by a thread.

 

There were a couple that were in tupperware - but they were in the really cheap disposable sandwich size ones and the lids were warped and didn't seal.

 

They were in places like dropped into hollowed out tree stumps, dropped behind logs, or stuffed inside a tree. One of them had two candles inside which clearly would melt all over everything as soon as the weather warms up. Most were damp.

 

I realize I haven't hidden that many BUT I have a lot sitting in my home ready to go out - and I know that it's important to have things that are sturdy enough to be outside and to withstand the elements... Heck - plastic bags around log books go INSIDE the larger containers....

 

Would you e-mail the person? Say something? Or log the find and move on?

 

I just wondered if they understood how the game works and how the cache's should be done...

 

Thoughts?

[+vwaldoguy]

If the cache is in bad enough shape, add a needs maintenance log and also a Found It log. Otherwise I'd just log normally them and move on. It's not our jobs to be the cache police. But, if you find a cache that needs legitimate maintenance, there's nothing wrong in saying so. If enough people complain in their logs and use the Needs Maintenance logs, a couple of things will happen. 1) The cacher may fix their caches. 2) If not, the real cache police (the reviewers) should step in and archive them. 3) People will stop going to the cache if everyone complains that it's a pile of mush. If it's a simple item such as replacing a full or wet log and you can do so, then help out. But it's not up to you to replace the container, etc.

[+SMN703]

If the cache is in bad enough shape, add a needs maintenance log and also a Found It log. Otherwise I'd just log normally them and move on. It's not our jobs to be the cache police. But, if you find a cache that needs legitimate maintenance, there's nothing wrong in saying so. If enough people complain in their logs and use the Needs Maintenance logs, a couple of things will happen. 1) The cacher may fix their caches. 2) If not, the real cache police (the reviewers) should step in and archive them. 3) People will stop going to the cache if everyone complains that it's a pile of mush. If it's a simple item such as replacing a full or wet log and you can do so, then help out. But it's not up to you to replace the container, etc.

 

I wrote a response this morning and it seems to have not gone through.

 

I was in no way saying I was going to replace their cache container - I have containers for caches that I plan to hide - NOT to fix what someone else has done. I brought up the containers just to say that based on my other finds and what I've read about cache's I know they need to be water tight and sturdy and sandwich bags clearly aren't.

 

I guess I'll just go back and add maint. posts to the ones that I remember being ziplock bags...

[+wkmccall]

If the cache is in bad enough shape, add a needs maintenance log and also a Found It log. Otherwise I'd just log normally them and move on. It's not our jobs to be the cache police. But, if you find a cache that needs legitimate maintenance, there's nothing wrong in saying so. If enough people complain in their logs and use the Needs Maintenance logs, a couple of things will happen. 1) The cacher may fix their caches. 2) If not, the real cache police (the reviewers) should step in and archive them. 3) People will stop going to the cache if everyone complains that it's a pile of mush. If it's a simple item such as replacing a full or wet log and you can do so, then help out. But it's not up to you to replace the container, etc.

 

I wrote a response this morning and it seems to have not gone through.

 

I was in no way saying I was going to replace their cache container - I have containers for caches that I plan to hide - NOT to fix what someone else has done. I brought up the containers just to say that based on my other finds and what I've read about cache's I know they need to be water tight and sturdy and sandwich bags clearly aren't.

 

I guess I'll just go back and add maint. posts to the ones that I remember being ziplock bags...

 

I have found a few "Baggies", but were covered with camo tape. I remember them being called "SlimBob" type caches.

[+briansnat]

I'd log the find and move on. If the bags were damaged I'd probably add a needs maintenance log.

 

 

Not really a getting started issue, so moving to general forum

[+KJcachers]

We have found a couple of those in our travels. They really make me wonder what the cache owner was thinking. I logged the find, including a mention of the "container". Hopefully the owner will figure it out someday. Another reason why you should find a whole bunch of caches before placing any so you can get an idea of what you need/should do when placing a cache. my 2 cents, YMMV

[Clan Riffster]

On those occasions when I discover a particular cacher who, judging from their predilection toward abysmally carpy containers, just doesn't grasp the importance of quality containers, I usually try to avoid all their other hides. I figure that anyone whose brain is capable of forming thoughts to the effect of, "Gee willikers! I think this ziplock baggie would make as great cache container", probably isn't going to be creating anything that would appeal to me in the immediate future.

[+wesleykey]

Log a find but state the container is missing and all you found was the log.

[+ccwrestlechik105]

I would send a private message to the cache owner explaining the guide lines of a proper cache container. It could just be that they never read the guide lines and no one has said andything to them about it. Also, on the ones that were torn up, those definintely need to have maintenence logs so that they can be fixed asap.

[+The VanDucks]

That is disappointing - to have your geocache trip ruined by the poor containers! I've noticed that geocaches in a particular area often tend to be similar types of hides; I guess people hide what they've found in their locality. Not much you can do other than hope someone will start hiding better caches there! Whenever we plan a caching trip a distance away from home, I usually read through (and print) the descriptions and logs of at least 10 or so caches to be sure there will be some worth finding! I pick out some that are in ammo cans,etc. because too many micros in one day make me grumpy!

Edited January 22, 2009 by The VanDucks

[+Harry Dolphin]

The good news is that they usually get archived pretty quickly. If it needs maintenance (smashed cache, soaked log, &c) log it, and post Needs Maintenance. Find one with a few NM logs, and nothing's been done in a couple of months, then log it, and Post SBA.

[+sbell111]

That is disappointing - to have your geocache trip ruined by the poor containers! I've noticed that geocaches in a particular area often tend to be similar types of hides; I guess people hide what they've found in their locality. Not much you can do other than hope someone will start hiding better caches there! Whenever we plan a caching trip a distance away from home, I usually read through (and print) the descriptions and logs of at least 10 or so caches to be sure there will be some worth finding! I pick out some that are in ammo cans,etc. because too many micros in one day make me grumpy!

The problem with written communication is that sometimes it is very hard to tell when someone is being really sarcastic or if they are serious.

[+sbell111]

I would send a private message to the cache owner explaining the guide lines of a proper cache container. It could just be that they never read the guide lines and no one has said andything to them about it. Also, on the ones that were torn up, those definintely need to have maintenence logs so that they can be fixed asap.

From reading your post, I had no idea what guidelines you were referring to. Therefore, I made a quick review of the listing guidelines. I couldn't find a single guideline that discussed the OP's issue. Perhaps you could share with us those guidelines that you would explain to the cache owner.

 

Thanks.

[+Rev Mike]

I would send a private message to the cache owner explaining the guide lines of a proper cache container. It could just be that they never read the guide lines and no one has said andything to them about it. Also, on the ones that were torn up, those definintely need to have maintenence logs so that they can be fixed asap.

From reading your post, I had no idea what guidelines you were referring to. Therefore, I made a quick review of the listing guidelines. I couldn't find a single guideline that discussed the OP's issue. Perhaps you could share with us those guidelines that you would explain to the cache owner.

 

Thanks.

 

I tend to believe that it falls under this one:

 

Cache Permanence

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there.

 

We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life.

 

Though not specifically stated, I don't think a plastic bag out in the elements meets the reasonable expectation of cache permanence, and would be considered a temporary cache as I interperet that section of the guidelines.

 

- Rev Mike

[+sbell111]

I would send a private message to the cache owner explaining the guide lines of a proper cache container. It could just be that they never read the guide lines and no one has said andything to them about it. Also, on the ones that were torn up, those definintely need to have maintenence logs so that they can be fixed asap.

From reading your post, I had no idea what guidelines you were referring to. Therefore, I made a quick review of the listing guidelines. I couldn't find a single guideline that discussed the OP's issue. Perhaps you could share with us those guidelines that you would explain to the cache owner.

 

Thanks.

I tend to believe that it falls under this one:

 

Cache Permanence

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there.

 

We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life.

 

Though not specifically stated, I don't think a plastic bag out in the elements meets the reasonable expectation of cache permanence, and would be considered a temporary cache as I interperet that section of the guidelines.

 

- Rev Mike

That guideline doesn't speak to container quality. No guideline does. In fact, one could easily argue that the guidelines allow for 'bad' containers as long as the cache owner is required to perform maintenance as needed.

[+Rev Mike]

In fact, one could easily argue that the guidelines allow for 'bad' containers as long as the cache owner is required to perform maintenance as needed.

 

True enough... there is nothing that says you can't go replace that bag every week or two.

 

That does not seem to be the case here and I can only agree with what everyone has already said about a posting a "needs maintenance" log and moving on.

 

- Rev Mike

Edited January 23, 2009 by Rev Mike

[+sbell111]

In fact, one could easily argue that the guidelines allow for 'bad' containers as long as the cache owner is required to perform maintenance as needed.

True enough... there is nothing that says you can't go replace that bag every week or two.

 

That does not seem to be the case here and I can only agree with what everyone has already said about a posting a "needs maintenance" log and moving in.

 

- Rev Mike

I certainly agree that if someone isn't maintaining their caches that it should be addressed.

[+Too Tall John]

I have seen a couple caches in my area archived because:

The physical cache does not meet listing requirements.

(A quote from the reviewer's archiving note on one of them.)

 

So, written or not, there does appear to be some container standard guideline.

[+KJcachers]

what town was this in?

Edited January 23, 2009 by KJcachers

[+sbell111]

I have seen a couple caches in my area archived because:

The physical cache does not meet listing requirements.

(A quote from the reviewer's archiving note on one of them.)

 

So, written or not, there does appear to be some container standard guideline.

Based solely on that cache page, I have no idea what guideline was violated. Either way, there have been previous threads regarding this. A quick forum search turned up a few. Here's the relevent bits:

From the guidelines: "consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook."

 

A wall is not a container.

Thanks for stating that so succinctly, Ambrosia, and by reference to the listing guidelines.

 

A container holds or encloses -- it *contains* -- a log. The log is a separate thing that you sign, from a scroll to a notebook. Both items are required.

… A container is something that "contains" the log. As in, "encloses." Every physical cache needs a container.

The guidelines state that a container must exist. This obviously rules out 'magnetic log' caches, but does not define what makes a 'good' container. This is generally left up to the cache owner. If the cache owner is willing to maintain the cache promptly if the chosen container leaks, for instance, the cache meets the guidelines. Edited January 23, 2009 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

...Or log the find and move on?...

 

I might trade out the candles. For the cache it's easy enough to log"Lid is warped, baggy has holes, log is damp" so the owner knows. Then I'd move on. I've long since stopped caring if a log is bone dry in the great outdoors where it rains, frosts, and dews. The dry log is nice but in a way it's a freak of nature in the wild.