Jump to content

Has anyone have this happen to them from Team JSAM


The_Night_Cacher
Followers 1

Recommended Posts

I got into there cointest,"Post your favorite Halloween Geocoin photo."

I put in a picture of me at a cache and submitted it. He in turns says he likes a different picture of me at another cache site so I submit that one too. Well that one won. Now here I sit waitting for the coins that my photo won. Remember he used my picture on his coin. Well I was polite and waited several weeks after the coins was in his hand. Still no email. So I email him and was told that if I had bought the coin then it was on its way. I had to remind him that I won his cointest and had some coins coming from him for winning. Then he says it's in the mail. Then another week passes. I had my dad email him about buying the coin and he was told that only a few was left. After my dad emailed him back that I was his son and was still waiting on my coins he said they had just been emailed out. Even thou I emailed him twice before my dad sent his, he never replied back to me even thou he told my dad that he did. Then I post in his cointest thread today and he replies in the thread that he sent the "replacement" pack today but a PM from him today me he did it yesterday on a hoilday.

 

You may ask why I bring this up after he said that he sent a second package? I got a email from another cacher today who had the same thing happen from the same person with the same kind of contest but in the landscape version. I won't add their names, I'm sure they will add their own reply later.

 

What can someone do about it? They have their own geocoin web-site and I'm sure Groundspeak wouldn't like for them not to fulfill the commitments.

 

Edit for spelling

Edited by The_Night_Cacher
Link to comment

The other cacher is me. I won the landscape competition for the Geopix coin, but have never received the coins that I was supposed to get for winning.....despite a replacement "second" package being sent. I got in touch many times to say that the replacement package hadn't arrived..... but have had no reply since being told that the replacement had been posted, and that was months ago.

 

I've sent another email today after reading The_Night_Cacher's post and realising that he must have been having a similar problem to mine.

 

Surely the packages that didn't make it to me were returned to the sender, and I've even offered to pay the postage to have it sent again.....especially with me being overseas. I love landscape photography every bit as much as caching and was so excited to have won the comp, I'll probably have to end up buying one of the coins lol to see my pic on them.

 

I don't understand why neither package made it over to me, and I am being totally honest about not receiving them. <_<

Link to comment

Sounds like you got taken.If your pic wasn't copywritten and you gave him permission to use it, I don't think there is anything you can do, But there are lawyers on the site that might be able to help.

I hope you get your coins. That person is a loser to start with if he was planning on using someone eles likeness for his coin.

Good Luck

Opalsns

Link to comment

It looks as if you both have done all you can to get "your" coin. I do not think there is a need to bash people. If you are that unhappy with how things are going...Do not do any type of transactions with this person. Do not buy the coins either. It is their loose. Just don't participate in anything they put on. Easy peasy!!!!! I am sorry though that you both have not recieved your"gifts". <_<

 

-Dardevle

Link to comment

It looks as if you both have done all you can to get "your" coin. I do not think there is a need to bash people. If you are that unhappy with how things are going...Do not do any type of transactions with this person. Do not buy the coins either. It is their loose. Just don't participate in anything they put on. Easy peasy!!!!! I am sorry though that you both have not recieved your"gifts". <_<

 

-Dardevle

When they have allowed their photo to be used for the other person to make a profit, then the payment is hardly a "Gift" in fact, that shouldn't even be considered a Cointest, when it's really a disguised solicitation of artwork submissions. The host has made money on the sale of these photos with the agreement of paying for their use.

Link to comment

It looks as if you both have done all you can to get "your" coin. I do not think there is a need to bash people. If you are that unhappy with how things are going...Do not do any type of transactions with this person. Do not buy the coins either. It is their loose. Just don't participate in anything they put on. Easy peasy!!!!! I am sorry though that you both have not recieved your"gifts". <_<

 

-Dardevle

When they have allowed their photo to be used for the other person to make a profit, then the payment is hardly a "Gift" in fact, that shouldn't even be considered a Cointest, when it's really a disguised solicitation of artwork submissions. The host has made money on the sale of these photos with the agreement of paying for their use.

Just to add...Legal Issue, probably not...Breech of trust, certainly.

Link to comment

It looks as if you both have done all you can to get "your" coin. I do not think there is a need to bash people. If you are that unhappy with how things are going...Do not do any type of transactions with this person. Do not buy the coins either. It is their loose. Just don't participate in anything they put on. Easy peasy!!!!! I am sorry though that you both have not recieved your"gifts". <_<

 

-Dardevle

The only level of participation I would recommend is to visit any more "Contests" like this that they come up with and make sure to share this story with all the potential new victims.

Link to comment

It looks as if you both have done all you can to get "your" coin. I do not think there is a need to bash people. If you are that unhappy with how things are going...Do not do any type of transactions with this person. Do not buy the coins either. It is their loose. Just don't participate in anything they put on. Easy peasy!!!!! I am sorry though that you both have not recieved your"gifts". <_<

 

-Dardevle

When they have allowed their photo to be used for the other person to make a profit, then the payment is hardly a "Gift" in fact, that shouldn't even be considered a Cointest, when it's really a disguised solicitation of artwork submissions. The host has made money on the sale of these photos with the agreement of paying for their use.

Just to add...Legal Issue, probably not...Breech of trust, certainly.

 

Point made. I hope things get worked out for the best for everyone involved!! :(

Link to comment

Hi FSM,

Your right on one point re: choosing a side , BUT and as you can see it's a BIG BUT, the person evidently does not return emails or if he does they are Obviously lies.

IF JSAM decides to comment, how long does he have to defend himself ?

And if I'm not mistaken, our opinions and/ or suggestions were ASKED for.

AND If nobody complained, more people would lose out, so they are doing US a favor.

It's easy to say don't deal them, DUH!

But how would we know if not for posts such as these.

Maybe I shouldn't call him a loser but in my neck of the woods if it smells like a skunk, it's a skunk

 

This is my Opinion and probably mine alone, but I am intitled to it.

I feel bad for that young person. I hope they get their coins.

Thanks FSM for being a good moderator and trying to keep the peace,

I'm just glad I learned about this before I entered their cointests. And I LOVE Cointests.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to have another one ....

 

RIGHT NOW!!!!!

 

Opalsns

Link to comment

I went and looked at the cointest spoke of here, I didnt see where anyone was informed of being a "Winner" and the disclamier said

 

2. All photos posted are be subject to be used on a geocoin that will sold by CoinSwag.

 

Meaning weather you won something or not your photo could be used on the coin without receiving anything. (Which ive not seen but would like to)

 

Right, Wrong, Good, Bad all a matter of prospective.

Link to comment

Did you miss this part on the first post from Team JSAM:

 

"We are currently working on a new geopix geocoin and we are looking for a Halloween related geocaching photos and the photo must have a geocache in the photo. This time we will not be voting but the winner that we choose will get some free coins."

 

So if they used someone's photo, doesn't that mean they will receive coins?

Link to comment

I went and looked at the cointest spoke of here, I didnt see where anyone was informed of being a "Winner" and the disclamier said

 

2. All photos posted are be subject to be used on a geocoin that will sold by CoinSwag.

 

Meaning weather you won something or not your photo could be used on the coin without receiving anything. (Which ive not seen but would like to)

 

Right, Wrong, Good, Bad all a matter of prospective.

 

So what was the reason for this PM from him? Looks like I won something.

Team JSAM GeoPix, Sep 22 2008, 10:01 AM

 

Geocacher

 

Group: Premium Members

Posts: 2,231

 

Joined: 14-March 06

 

 

Hello,

 

I would like to use your photo for our coin, based on sales you will get a small amount of free coins for the use of your photo. Let me know if that works.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

Jake

Link to comment

Well it appears to be a type of circular logic, they said not only would a winner get some coins, but they also said that any photo listed could be used and didnt state that only the winning photo would be used.

 

Its all about the Wording.

 

also did i miss seeing where they listed a winner? Usualy cointests list a winner. Im tired and watching the inauguration so might of over looked it.

Link to comment

Well, I think yer dad is a fine fella. So I hope you two can work this out. I'll leave my past dealings with Mr. JSAM out of this, since it just add fuel and its off topic.

 

I guess I'm in a similar boat. I won a cointest back the first week of August 2008. I still don't have that coin. Although, I've not reminded the cointest holder that I won it. They'll either send it to me, or not. And I won't be any worse off if it never shows <_<

Link to comment

So what was the reason for this PM from him? Looks like I won something.

Team JSAM GeoPix, Sep 22 2008, 10:01 AM

 

Geocacher

 

Group: Premium Members

Posts: 2,231

 

Joined: 14-March 06

 

 

Hello,

 

I would like to use your photo for our coin, based on sales you will get a small amount of free coins for the use of your photo. Let me know if that works.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

Jake

 

Skunk!!!!

Link to comment

Well, I think yer dad is a fine fella. So I hope you two can work this out. I'll leave my past dealings with Mr. JSAM out of this, since it just add fuel and its off topic.

 

I guess I'm in a similar boat. I won a cointest back the first week of August 2008. I still don't have that coin. Although, I've not reminded the cointest holder that I won it. They'll either send it to me, or not. And I won't be any worse off if it never shows ;)

This has also happened to me when I won a cointest in early April 2008. Oh well...

Link to comment

The picture is on the geocaching web site. Isn't that a copyright with them? If you read his cointest it clearly says if you win and he uses your picture that you get coins for it. Pretty simple to me. ;)

 

I spoke with the Groundspeak lawyer about a year and a half ago and asked specifically about the use of pictures that were posted on the site. He told me I had to get permission from the person who took them to use them. In this case I would assume that the posting of the picture in the cointest thread constituted permission for use.

Link to comment

Sigh....here we go again.

 

Before things get too out of hand, let's give Team JSAM an opportunity to come in and post his side of the story.

 

Without choosing sides here, I think it's important to let both sides have their say before a gang mentality erupts.

 

Hopefully this doesn't turn out like some other recent company issues have.

Do we really need a reply? I'm thinking that this is a good example of things that should be handled off-line and perhaps shared gently in the feedback thread...? I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the hand wringing and blame. I come to this forum for new coin info, cointests, missions and hopes for trades, not to see more and more anger and bad blood made. But now, I can't wait to be flamed :o;)

Link to comment

Yes, generally we prefer that exchanges be handled offline (see the pinned threads up top).

 

However, if there seems to be a pattern of concern about things going on that the community needs to know about, then it makes sense to have a thread to potentially warn others (if that warning is valid).

 

Sometimes it works out that way, sometimes it's a misunderstanding, and sometimes other things are brought to light that help us do our jobs better.

 

Without anything to act upon at this point, this thread appears to be valid - until such time as it's proven that it's not.

 

As a side note: If only people that are directly affected post in the thread, it either quickly falls off the front page or is handled without the dog-piling. You all (as community members) control these threads as much as the moderators do (at least in terms of visibility).

Edited by Flying Spaghetti Monster
Link to comment

Sigh....here we go again.

 

Before things get too out of hand, let's give Team JSAM an opportunity to come in and post his side of the story.

 

Without choosing sides here, I think it's important to let both sides have their say before a gang mentality erupts.

 

Hopefully this doesn't turn out like some other recent company issues have.

Do we really need a reply? I'm thinking that this is a good example of things that should be handled off-line and perhaps shared gently in the feedback thread...? I'm getting a bit annoyed with all the hand wringing and blame. I come to this forum for new coin info, cointests, missions and hopes for trades, not to see more and more anger and bad blood made. But now, I can't wait to be flamed :);)

 

I tried to handle this off lines. It wasn't until today when another person on these forums had the same thing happen to them. After that, I knew that I wasn't getting anywhere with him. Do you think Groundspeak would allow these kinds of transactions to go on with a website/vendor that is selling Groundspeak merchandice? Are these coins not trackable on geocaching.com? Where do you think he gets the tracking numbers at? :o

Link to comment

What happens when you can't get the other person to communicate with you? Do you just let it go and allow this person to continue to do the same thing? I agree that the person should attempt to resolve the matter outside of the forums but when that doesn't work I have no problem with the individual bringing their concerns to the forums.

 

By ignoring the conduct you are only inviting more of it.

Link to comment

The picture is on the geocaching web site. Isn't that a copyright with them? If you read his cointest it clearly says if you win and he uses your picture that you get coins for it. Pretty simple to me. ;)

 

I spoke with the Groundspeak lawyer about a year and a half ago and asked specifically about the use of pictures that were posted on the site. He told me I had to get permission from the person who took them to use them. In this case I would assume that the posting of the picture in the cointest thread constituted permission for use.

Yes but also a contract was created when they stated the pic that was used would be sent a number of coins baised off sales , in court, that would be considered a contract, because it would be a percentege of sales, the winner consented to that contract when they entered the pic, so the contract was complete with an offer and a taker, so only thing left is payment. So they never stated how many coins you would be given, so no percentage was ditermined, so they could send you one coin and the contract would be fullifuled. Hope this clears up the legal side, my friend drills me with senaros just like this for his law degree tests. Im usually not wrong. I've never had any dealings so I am partical to both sides. Just wanted to bring that aspect to the table

Link to comment

I agree with the posting of this thread. It sounds to me that the OP tried to solve this outside of the forums and as a last resort posted it. Some seem to think that the forums should always be nice and cozy but life isn't like that. Even in our little communtiy here there are those who will take your money and use it for their own purposes as we have seen recently in some of the companies. Online there is really no word of mouth communication to warn others to stay away from certain companies or individuals and the same practices will continue to occur until the pattern of behavior is brought to light. That's why I feel too that concerns like this should be aired here.

Link to comment

 

I tried to handle this off lines. It wasn't until today when another person on these forums had the same thing happen to them. After that, I knew that I wasn't getting anywhere with him. Do you think Groundspeak would allow these kinds of transactions to go on with a website/vendor that is selling Groundspeak merchandice? Are these coins not trackable on geocaching.com? Where do you think he gets the tracking numbers at? ;)

 

I totally understand your frustration, believe me. Groundspeak does have a stake in all trackable coin sales, and they know their responsibilities. I'm sure there's plenty going on with geocoins that we never hear about here in the forums. Perhaps the discussion should be about changing the way we buy, sell and verify geocoins. Essentially, we are all "forced" to operate on "buyer beware" lines, and that doesn't always seem fair. As far as this coin is concerned, we all need to be sure of our own rights, especially as geocoins deal with all kinds of things now like intellectual property rights and business ethics. However, these dealings are often with amateurs on both sides of the geocoin sales, and that is unfortunate. Things just like what happened to you are getting more and more common, and often with much more significant stakes.

 

Notifying Groundspeak of your concern and dealing directly with those parties involved in the cointest and production of the coin seems the best path.

 

So, to shift the conversation if I could, perhaps we all need to lobby for geocoin guideline reform. I struggle with the copyright issue regarding the photos. As a photographer, I understand the need to protect myself, and it sounds like there was a lack of understanding with all parties involved. And in regard to cointests, we all should feel fortunate to have generous people willing to conduct them in fair and ethical ways. It seems that fair and ethical didn't happen in this case, but it really is part of a bigger problem that I still feel should be handled outside of this forum.

 

Perhaps cointests should not involve intellectual or tangible copyright issues, like use of photos or design art. It seems like a nightmare with possible errors and unfamiliarity with rights and use. We really should assess the direction of geocoining and decide as a collective, in concert with Groundspeak, to improve the guidelines for coin production, ethics and use. With the explosion of geocoin production it must be very difficult to keep up with the administration of the existing guidelines from Groundspeak's standpoint. Without a clean, smart effort on all of our parts we will continue to have threads just like this over and over. Starting a flamefest over all of the problems will not solve anything. Making efforts to improve the sale, production, trade and gaming involved with geocoins should be a bigger part of our thread use and continuing discussion with Groundspeak. We have a great opportunity to define a better and smoother "geocoining" experience, so let's focus on that, perhaps?

Link to comment

<snip>

Making efforts to improve the sale, production, trade and gaming involved with geocoins should be a bigger part of our thread use and continuing discussion with Groundspeak. We have a great opportunity to define a better and smoother "geocoining" experience, so let's focus on that, perhaps?

 

Please open a new topic for this discussion so that this thread can stay on topic.

 

It will be interesting to see what is thrown out as solutions in that new thread.

Link to comment

I too totally agree with having Groundspeak being notified on issues like this and that we as the community, stand togather to set things right.

 

On the other hand, Many of us would never know of these issues without them being posted for us to read. I didn't know about the cointest that were put on by them, nor did I know that so many were, well Ripped off by a single Cacher/ Vendor. Now I do and will be aware of at least this wrong doing. There the one that should be Banned.

I would agree to bring it directly to Groundspeak as a class action for those involved, but let go the dream of getting the coins. I believe that would be fruitless, and a THANK YOU to those who brought it to everyone's attention .

Opalsns

Link to comment

I too totally agree with having Groundspeak being notified on issues like this and that we as the community, stand togather to set things right.

 

On the other hand, Many of us would never know of these issues without them being posted for us to read. I didn't know about the cointest that were put on by them, nor did I know that so many were, well Ripped off by a single Cacher/ Vendor. Now I do and will be aware of at least this wrong doing. There the one that should be Banned.

I would agree to bring it directly to Groundspeak as a class action for those involved, but let go the dream of getting the coins. I believe that would be fruitless, and a THANK YOU to those who brought it to everyone's attention .

Opalsns

 

I agree with everything you have said. However, starting a flaming may bring it to our attention, but the moderators took the time to pin a thread above for that kind of feedback. Anger has its place, and I identify with each of us that has encountered any issue with geocoining. I've started a thread where we can start the ball rolling in creating a collective set of updated, clear and ethical rules and guidelines for all of us to benefit from. Sanctions, consequences, feedback and rewards can be worked out, I hope.

 

This situation is worth noting, now I think we should all put up and think of ways to protect ourselves from things like this happening again and again. We should reward coiners who act ethically, and find productive, smart ways to sanction those who do not.

Link to comment

For most cointests I wouldn't be so upset about a coin not being delivered, as most cointests are just generous offerings to the community, giving a little bit something back to a lucky person. It'd be upsetting, but I personally would have a hard time complaining about not receiving something for free, even if I won it.

 

But this wasn't "most" cointests, it was more of a call for artwork. If I submit artwork to a company and they agree to mint and sell the coin giving me a percentage of sales, I didn't just win a cointest. I made a deal with a company.

 

Either way, calling it a cointest or calling it a deal, they used your photo on a coin, profited from it, and didn't compensate you. That's not cool. It may not be nice to bring these things out like this, but it is valuable to other customers, or people who might potentially give them artwork. I hope you both get your coins.

Link to comment

I too totally agree with having Groundspeak being notified on issues like this and that we as the community, stand togather to set things right.

 

On the other hand, Many of us would never know of these issues without them being posted for us to read. I didn't know about the cointest that were put on by them, nor did I know that so many were, well Ripped off by a single Cacher/ Vendor. Now I do and will be aware of at least this wrong doing. There the one that should be Banned.

I would agree to bring it directly to Groundspeak as a class action for those involved, but let go the dream of getting the coins. I believe that would be fruitless, and a THANK YOU to those who brought it to everyone's attention .

Opalsns

 

I agree with everything you have said. However, starting a flaming may bring it to our attention, but the moderators took the time to pin a thread above for that kind of feedback. Anger has its place, and I identify with each of us that has encountered any issue with geocoining. I've started a thread where we can start the ball rolling in creating a collective set of updated, clear and ethical rules and guidelines for all of us to benefit from. Sanctions, consequences, feedback and rewards can be worked out, I hope.

 

This situation is worth noting, now I think we should all put up and think of ways to protect ourselves from things like this happening again and again. We should reward coiners who act ethically, and find productive, smart ways to sanction those who do not.

 

So you're really saying, let's act like this never happened. Let's sweep it under the carpet. I really don't see any flaming going on. I see someone going to the last resort to get a issue straightened out. If this was only the first time it happened but it isn't. Reread the first couple posts.

Link to comment

So you're really saying, let's act like this never happened. Let's sweep it under the carpet. I really don't see any flaming going on. I see someone going to the last resort to get a issue straightened out. If this was only the first time it happened but it isn't. Reread the first couple posts.

Easy, there. I am not saying you should sweep it under the rug. We all understand your anger, and some of us can even identify with you after many other issues. Just make sure that your anger and disappointment are aimed in the right direction.

 

Calling someone out as a scammer could easily be construed as flaming. The moderators spent a lot of time deciding how to proceed with issues like this, and they created a pinned topic at the top of the page. Your anger, disgust, disappointment and pain can be shared off line with Team Jsam and Groundspeak in attempts for resolution. The pinned topic exists to state your issue, keeping it to the facts, and therefore informing the rest of us of the problems we may encounter based on your experience.

 

We would all seek affirmation when we encounter dishonest, unethical and plain silly behaviors from those we would like to trust openly in this forum. Letting us all know is very much appreciated, but I think doing so in this manner is detrimental to bettering geocoining experiences. Again, there is a pinned topic for airing concerns about vendors and traders.

 

I'm not trying to dismiss your situation. I am very glad that you have let the community know about what has happened. However, I feel (it is only my opinion and doesn't have to matter at all to you, or anyone) that finding ways to be productive about these kinds of issues would be to the benefit of the entire community.

Link to comment

So you're really saying, let's act like this never happened. Let's sweep it under the carpet. I really don't see any flaming going on. I see someone going to the last resort to get a issue straightened out. If this was only the first time it happened but it isn't. Reread the first couple posts.

Easy, there. I am not saying you should sweep it under the rug. We all understand your anger, and some of us can even identify with you after many other issues. Just make sure that your anger and disappointment are aimed in the right direction.

 

Calling someone out as a scammer could easily be construed as flaming. The moderators spent a lot of time deciding how to proceed with issues like this, and they created a pinned topic at the top of the page. Your anger, disgust, disappointment and pain can be shared off line with Team Jsam and Groundspeak in attempts for resolution. The pinned topic exists to state your issue, keeping it to the facts, and therefore informing the rest of us of the problems we may encounter based on your experience.

 

We would all seek affirmation when we encounter dishonest, unethical and plain silly behaviors from those we would like to trust openly in this forum. Letting us all know is very much appreciated, but I think doing so in this manner is detrimental to bettering geocoining experiences. Again, there is a pinned topic for airing concerns about vendors and traders.

 

I'm not trying to dismiss your situation. I am very glad that you have let the community know about what has happened. However, I feel (it is only my opinion and doesn't have to matter at all to you, or anyone) that finding ways to be productive about these kinds of issues would be to the benefit of the entire community.

 

I'm not mad at you so there is nothing to be easy about. As I said before, this was last resort. What else could I do. My emails where not being returned. I'm not the only one that they had done his very same thing to. Isn't this a scamming item? Making money off my photo. They sold some coins you know.

Link to comment

So you're really saying, let's act like this never happened. Let's sweep it under the carpet. I really don't see any flaming going on. I see someone going to the last resort to get a issue straightened out. If this was only the first time it happened but it isn't. Reread the first couple posts.

 

Calling someone out as a scammer could easily be construed as flaming. The moderators spent a lot of time deciding how to proceed with issues like this, and they created a pinned topic at the top of the page. Your anger, disgust, disappointment and pain can be shared off line with Team Jsam and Groundspeak in attempts for resolution. The pinned topic exists to state your issue, keeping it to the facts, and therefore informing the rest of us of the problems we may encounter based on your experience.

 

I am not sure the pinned thread at the top is the best spot for this complaint. It was put into place to keep track of vendors who do not deliver paid product. This was a different situation and I am not sure if it would fit. But I might have contacted the moderators to see if it could indeed be posted there.

 

I myself have not received a winning coin from a cointest in the summer held by another coiner (and I know this has happened to others as well, I am just surprised at how much it happens though). I would hate for it to happen to others but I chose not to say anything because sometimes life stuff happens and gets in the way. I think if I watched this person hold lots of cointests and not deliver on the winnings, I would have said something but this wasn't the case.

 

This situation...there is a team making coins based on artwork gained from a cointest on these forums. IMO, if this coin went to production, the person who's picture is on the coin should get their "payment". If they don't, the team should certainly not be holding any more cointests for future editions! And maybe a comment in their next cointest thread would be in order...if there is another one.

Link to comment

 

I'm not mad at you so there is nothing to be easy about. As I said before, this was last resort. What else could I do. My emails where not being returned. I'm not the only one that they had done his very same thing to. Isn't this a scamming item? Making money off my photo. They sold some coins you know.

Oh, Good! ;) I'm right there with you; I'd be upset if I were promised something for an image I submitted to someone. I'm actually familiar with losing out on "royalties" after giving someone permission to use a photo I took. (and I learned the hard way to cover my rear with copyrights) I join everyone else in the hope that you will get the coins you were promised. You WERE entered into a contract for use of your image(s), and should receive the agreed payment of coins. At least in this case, you have documentation of the agreement, and could take legal action on that fact. (I hope it doesn't come to that!)

 

All too often it does become the last resort for people to air out their frustrations like this when emails are ignored and verbal contracts not fulfilled. There have been MANY threads in my short time of geocoining dealing with situations like yours. It is NOT fair, ethical or even legal in most cases for vendors or cachers to behave this way. But the moderators are very careful with how they allow feedback like yours to be given. (That being said, I don't see that care being consistent, and therein lies a problem)

 

I would definitely post to the feedback thread, following the guidelines listed in the first post. I am thankful for the feedback and information that people have provided about bad, horrible and dishonest behaviors by vendors and others. But I do feel that Groundspeak, and we the users, should join up and find ways to better protect ourselves and sanction those who do things like this to us. It only seems fair, and smart!

Link to comment

<snip>I am not sure the pinned thread at the top is the best spot for this complaint. It was put into place to keep track of vendors who do not deliver paid product. <snip>

I think that this situation would fit, as they are the vendors of that coin, and they have not delivered on their end of a verbal contract. The wording may need to be carefully written, but it is worth noting in that thread, as it would help demonstrate the ethics of their vending. (I agree, perhaps the mods can shed some light on that possibility)

 

The idea of noting this case in Team JSAM's next coin production or cointest may be a good "sanction", as long as it doesn't become inflamatory, IMO. But perhaps that discussion should be taken to the thread I created on the subject... ;)

Link to comment

The only thing I would add is, join together with the others that have been tricked and together bring it to Groundspeak. The moderators will help you and for sure anyone here will do their best to assist.

Also This coiner really should be removed. There are Noobs showing up everyday, and as the young person above had been tricked, others who have not read these posts will too.

If cachers get suspended for voicing their opinion, so to should an OBVIOUS scammer!!

JMHO

Opalsns

Link to comment

I don't think the correlation has been made that "the contract" goes both ways...if people are saying there is an online contract with them saying all pictures can be used then they also said that the picture that would be used would receive coins therefore if the coins were never sent the cointest poster is in violation of the contract. So i don't see why so many people keep wanting to sweep this under the rug as..."o well better luck next time"...This is a valid thread and a problem that needs to be addressed...I'm not going to buy coins from a website that allows their designers and purchasers to add images used out of contract and personally I think Groundspeak shouldn't stand for this either as these coins are trackable.

Link to comment

Hello there. I did not read any of the post (minus the first one). I honestly don't know what happened to your coins geo gophers I have sent you two packages and for them both not to arrive I find very fishy. I will send another package to you on Wednesday.

 

Ryan I have told you what I have done you will get your coins in the mail within a few days, I suspect.

 

I know that some can't wait to jump on board and come up with a crazy story about why I planned to cheat these good folks out of a few free coins and what you should all do about it but, the fact is coins were sent, plain and simple.

 

Hell even I will admit that its a little odd that both contest winners coins did not make it but it is what it is, nothing I can do but re ship once again.

 

Thats all I have to say, I now return you to what ever it was that you were doing.

 

Jake ;)

Edited by Team JSAM
Link to comment

Thanks The Night Cacher for bringing this issue to our attention.

 

A few days ago I noticed the "Activated coins for sale. Submit your offer if interested" thread. My eyebrows lifted when I saw "If you are outbid I will email or PM you." I was tempted to post something along the lines of "let the buyer beware" but decided against it as I had no experience of this person and was concerned that I might be slandering their reputation. This thread now brings that reputation into question based on a number of cachers experiences and so I will now mention my concern for an auction where bidders are unable to verify the bids of other bidders.

 

I agree that this thread is justified AND that we need to be careful with the language we use. The mods walk a grey line between the duty of disclosure and the protection of reputations. I am pleased to see that the majority of the posts have been statements of peoples experiences rather than calling people names like "scammer" (which is flaming). I can understand peoples frustrations. It is acceptable to say "I think/feel I have been cheated". Its ok to state how you think and feel about something but its not ok to say "X is a cheat". Please be mindful of this as it often is the difference between whether a thread stays open or is closed down.

 

Personally I can't understand why any person would risk their long standing reputation for the cost of a couple of coins.

Edited by haysonics
Link to comment

Hello there. I did not read any of the post (minus the first one). I honestly don't know what happened to your coins geo gophers I have sent you two packages and for them both not to arrive I find very fishy. I will send another package to you on Wednesday.

 

Ryan I have told you what I have done you will get your coins in the mail within a few days, I suspect.

 

I know that some can't wait to jump on board and come up with a crazy story about why I planned to cheat these good folks out of a few free coins and what you should all do about it but, the fact is coins were sent, plain and simple.

 

Hell even I will admit that its a little odd that both contest winners coins did not make it but it is what it is, nothing I can do but re ship once again.

 

Thats all I have to say, I now return you to what ever it was that you were doing.

 

Jake ;)

 

Thank you for repling for all to see. I will be watching the mailbox. Hopefully they will be there in a few days. This is a lesson learned forme that if I am to send anything by mail to be sure and spend the little extra for delivery confirmation. That way there is no question asked.

Link to comment

 

Thank you for repling for all to see. I will be watching the mailbox. Hopefully they will be there in a few days. This is a lesson learned forme that if I am to send anything by mail to be sure and spend the little extra for delivery confirmation. That way there is no question asked.

 

Yea the down side to delivery conformation is it only works when its delivered, I have had a few lost packages where the post office scanned it in half way then poof it was gone, they would not even talk about replacement even though there was proof they had lost it. The whole USPS system sucks big time and is full of some many flaws but you cant beat the price.

 

J

Link to comment

Good to read your response to myself and Ryan's posts.

 

I honestly don't know what happened to your coins geo gophers I have sent you two packages and for them both not to arrive I find very fishy.

Couldn't agree with you more there......I've been thinking that for a while, very "fishy" indeed!

 

I send and receive packages to/from the USA on a pretty regular basis and I have never had any problems like this before. Not counting yours, I've only had one package go missing in about 5 years. What I can't understand though, is why none of these missing packages are ever getting returned to you.

 

Anyway thanks again for your response. I'll keep everything crossed that young Ryan receives his prize soon, and that it'll be a case of "third time lucky" for me.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 1
×
×
  • Create New...