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Letterbox hybrid definition


L0ne.R

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My understanding is that the most significant thing that defines a letterbox hybrid is the signature stamp in the box. But re-reading the LH definition (see below), it says: "They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box". Why doesn't is say "They must contain a signature stamp that stays with the box". Would it be possible to have a box approved as a LBH where the hider specifically states in the clues that a stamp is not included?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#letterbox

Letterbox Hybrid

 

Letterboxing is another form of treasure hunting that uses clues to direct hunters to a hidden container. Each letterbox contains a stamp which is the signature for that box. Most letterboxers have their own personal stamps and personal logbooks. They stamp the letterbox logbook with their personal stamp, and use the stamp contained in the letterbox to "sign" their personal logbook.

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt. A letterbox hybrid cannot be designed to be found using only clues. Whether or not the letterbox hybrid contains trade items is up to the owner. In most cases personal stamp and personal logbook are not necessary to be a seeker of a letterbox hybrid.

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You do need a stamp or else you don't need or qualify for this cache type.

The wording though seems to leave some interpretation for reviewers and hiders. The word "should" implies that the stamp could be considered optional. Anyway, it's not a big deal really. If all reviewers know that "should" really means "must" then that's good. But it would probably help to clarify things if a more clear term was used.

 

There was a message posted recently that stated that "generally" a letterbox hybrid contained a stamp that stayed with the box. I was going to post that a LBH must contain a stamp but after re-reading the definition and seeing the word "should", I wondered if it was an absolute requirement.

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My understanding is that the most significant thing that defines a letterbox hybrid is the signature stamp in the box. But re-reading the LH definition (see below), it says: "They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box". Why doesn't is say "They must contain a signature stamp that stays with the box". Would it be possible to have a box approved as a LBH where the hider specifically states in the clues that a stamp is not included?...

 

Becaue the cache "side" of the hybrid only needs be a cache. Persnonally I'd rather see it be a letterbox in every way, except cachers can sign a log as an option. However this site can have the cache experience be completely different than the letterbox experience.

 

Per keystone the stamp qualifies it as a hybrid otherwise it's just a regular cache.

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I think it should read, "They should contain a homemade signature stamp, onot a store bought assembly line stamp". I would use the should, since in this case many people use the crud that takes nothing but a buck, too bad they don't use their own homemade stamps like the true letterboxers do.

 

Funny, "stamp elitism" was one of the reasons I moved from boxing to caching. Not everybody has skills and manual dexterity to carve out the Last Supper on an eraser and hide it in the woods.

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I think it should read, "They should contain a homemade signature stamp, onot a store bought assembly line stamp". I would use the should, since in this case many people use the crud that takes nothing but a buck, too bad they don't use their own homemade stamps like the true letterboxers do.

 

Funny, "stamp elitism" was one of the reasons I moved from boxing to caching. Not everybody has skills and manual dexterity to carve out the Last Supper on an eraser and hide it in the woods.

 

Slight thread drift...

 

I may be worth mentioning that the inclusion of stamp doesn't necessarily make it a letterbox or letterbox/hybrid. I've seen a couple of cache series that have a form that can be stamped with the stamp for a series of caches. Once the stamp sheet is filled out it is redeemable for a special coin created for the series.

 

It's also worth mentioning that if a stamp, and especially if a ink pad is included, that the container be very waterproof. I found one a couple of weeks ago that had a baggie half full of water and ink. The baggie also contained the log sheet, which I didn't even attempt to retrieve.

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I think it should read, "They should contain a homemade signature stamp, not a store bought assembly line stamp". I would use the should, since in this case many people use the crud that takes nothing but a buck, too bad they don't use their own homemade stamps like the true letterboxers do.

 

Funny, "stamp elitism" was one of the reasons I moved from boxing to caching. Not everybody has skills and manual dexterity to carve out the Last Supper on an eraser and hide it in the woods.

 

It's not required that the stamp be fancy.

 

8b746cbb-0eaa-4da5-a92c-a22b737e5786.jpg

 

So, I'm artistically challenged. But I carved it myself! I've only had one letter-box type stamp in the log.

I do bring a stamp when I hunt letter-box/hybrids. (And an ink pad...) I think they're a lot of fun!

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It's not required that the stamp be fancy.

 

8b746cbb-0eaa-4da5-a92c-a22b737e5786.jpg

 

So, I'm artistically challenged. But I carved it myself! I've only had one letter-box type stamp in the log.

I do bring a stamp when I hunt letter-box/hybrids. (And an ink pad...) I think they're a lot of fun!

 

[sarcasm] :D OMG YOU POSTED YOUR STAMP ON THE INTERNET!!! [/sarcasm]*

 

I'm with you. Our stamp that we use and the stamps that we've carved look very similar to yours. But with 100% less bear. I'm just saying that some folks don't even get that far. If they want to use the stamp they picked up at Hobby Lobby, more power to them. Sure it's not at cool from a certain perspective, but I grew sick of boxers that would look down on people that used a store bought stamp like they were somebody killing the hobby. Replace "store-bought stamp" with "hide-a-key" and you see the same thing here.

 

I have completely enjoyed the one letter-box hybrid we've found and really liked the stamp on the one that I hid (and then archived shortly after due to potential muggle drama.) I really wish there were more around here and I often say to the wife "I'm just going to make everything a letterbox hybrid from now on." But I haven't yet.

 

*That was my other issue with hard core boxers- the belief that the stamp is sacred and should never be posted anywhere on the internet and should only ever appear in either the collection of a boxer or in the log for the box itself. I called them Stamp Worshipers (in my head).

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I have a related question. Is every letterbox hybrid cross-listed on the Letterboxing site, or does possession of a stamp alone warrant listing on Geocaching.com as a LH?

 

I can tell you that I have seen hybrids cross posted to one of the two boxing sites that I'm aware of. I cannot speak for how TBTB feel about that. I imagine it would be difficult to prohibit unless discovered on a case-by-case basis. I'd have to re-read the guidelines and look that up.

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[sarcasm] :) OMG YOU POSTED YOUR STAMP ON THE INTERNET!!! [/sarcasm]*
<<------- AHEM!

<<------- :)B):):rolleyes:

...re-reading the LH definition (see below), it says: "They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box". Why doesn't is say "They must contain a signature stamp.
If I were to make up an answer to this question, I'd say that it is because everyone knows that some geocacher will leave the following log:

 

"Took Stamp, Left Golf Ball. TFTC"

I have a related question. Is every letterbox hybrid cross-listed on the Letterboxing site, or does possession of a stamp alone warrant listing on Geocaching.com as a LH?

I can tell you that I have seen hybrids cross posted to one of the two boxing sites that I'm aware of. I cannot speak for how TBTB feel about that. I imagine it would be difficult to prohibit unless discovered on a case-by-case basis. I'd have to re-read the guidelines and look that up.
I'm pretty sure that in the case of LB/GC Hybrids it is allowed. Edited by Too Tall John
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I have a related question. Is every letterbox hybrid cross-listed on the Letterboxing site, or does possession of a stamp alone warrant listing on Geocaching.com as a LH?

We don't check for cross-listing. This is not required, but one reason for the separate cache type is to permit cross listing of existing letterboxes while alerting geocachers NOT TO TAKE THE STAMP.

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I have a related question. Is every letterbox hybrid cross-listed on the Letterboxing site, or does possession of a stamp alone warrant listing on Geocaching.com as a LH?

 

Its not a requirement but it wouldn't make sense to place a letterbox hybrid and not advertise it to letterboxers. I guess letterboxers can search here for LB hybrids but that is unlikely (they generally look down their noses at geocaching), so cross listing makes sense.

 

The stamp alone makes it a letterbox hybrid. The idea that the LB hybrid needs to include letterbox like clues is

is erroneous. People can publish LBH here at the posted coordinates like a traditional and list it on a letterboxing site with clues.

 

Also, coordinates are a legit letterbox clue. There is no rule that says I can't go to the letterboxing site and list a letterbox using only coordinates as a clue and nothing keeping the letterboxer from using a GPS to find it.

Edited by briansnat
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I have a related question. Is every letterbox hybrid cross-listed on the Letterboxing site, or does possession of a stamp alone warrant listing on Geocaching.com as a LH?

 

I can tell you that I have seen hybrids cross posted to one of the two boxing sites that I'm aware of. I cannot speak for how TBTB feel about that. I imagine it would be difficult to prohibit unless discovered on a case-by-case basis. I'd have to re-read the guidelines and look that up.

 

Out of my 12 letterbox hybrid finds (admittedly all in Western NY or Southern Ontario), exactly zero of them have been cross-listed on letterboxing websites. I'd dare say half of them didn't even contain a stamp, and were just called a letterbox hybrid for an icon for the cache placer. They were all placed 2006 or earlier, and I'm sure they've tightened up on the requirements since then.

 

That being said, I'm sure TPTB couldn't care less if they were cross-listed. They certainly don't care that almost all of my caches are cross-listed on Navicache and GPSgames.org.

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I'd dare say half of them didn't even contain a stamp, and were just called a letterbox hybrid for an icon for the cache placer. They were all placed 2006 or earlier, and I'm sure they've tightened up on the requirements since then.

 

Yes. It seems a few placers didn't understand that the box needed to have a signature stamp. Looks like they thought that a "letterbox" requires that finders bring a stamp to stamp and sign the log book (I've seen this mistake too). I guess, at the time, some reviewers were also thinking that the sig stamp was optional. Wonder why these stampless boxes still maintain their "letterbox" status? When a box gets the wrong icon can it be revoked?

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Out of my 12 letterbox hybrid finds (admittedly all in Western NY or Southern Ontario), exactly zero of them have been cross-listed on letterboxing websites.

About the same ratio for me. At first all were cross listed and that got me to create an account 'over there', but then they started to be just peoples way to get another icon in their profile. But at least all of them did have a stamp in them, mostly nice handmade ones. And most did have letterbox-like finding instructions.

 

I don't think cross-listing is 'necessary', but it would have been nice. Now, as it stands, I have no memory of what my password was 'over there' and i've since accidently found at least 50 true letterboxes while geocaching. I stopped caring about them.

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