Members only event?!?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

I think it's quite simple. Some people in Arizona had a hiking event rejected because it was "exclusive". They're just confused, as am I.

Sounds like a reviewer issue...

Exactly what I was saying in this post. :laughing: We don't know if the Arizona people filed an official appeal of the decision on their event though, good point.

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Speaking of reviewers... Why have heard very little from them on this?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

I stated earlier that events should be free and open to everyone, but I want to amend that. On consideration I think that events listed on geocaching.com should be free and open... and anyone who wants to put together a private or limited-attendance event should do it on their local forum.

Much more important than my opinion is Groundspeak's answer, however, and lacking that directly then this event's listing and other previous examples of listed PMO events, and the ability to list it as PMO at all, indicate to me that TPTB find PMO event listings acceptable.

I have hosted 23 listed events in 3 states and all have been free and open to anyone... I have hosted a number of local events that were limited to local AGA members or even personal invitation only, but I did not list them on geocaching.com, I listed them on our local forum, if at all.

Given that PMO event listings are allowed it then becomes a matter of personal choice of the host.

Beyond that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67J_66hdN-I :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

BEACUSE WE CAN and we have Loads of FUN watching how you people react. :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

BEACUSE WE CAN and we have Loads of FUN watching how you people react.

My kids often try this reasoning with me....

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

BEACUSE WE CAN and we have Loads of FUN watching how you people react.

OK, now lets compare that statement to the Urban dictionary definition of trolling :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

BEACUSE WE CAN and we have Loads of FUN watching how you people react.

You're watching nothing. Gc.com allows events to be pmo so i don't believe anyone here has said that it is against guidelines or that it is wrong. However, some of us have wondered why a group would want to do it this way and have just asked the simple question, why? So far, the only replies to that question that have come back in this thread have been of the childish variety.

Not that ya'll care but i can tell you now that because of the rude comments coming out on here, i certainly wouldn't ever be interested in attending one of your events or contacting anyone in your group for anything geocaching related. I'm glad that the rest of us are a friendly bunch who enjoy meeting new people and that try to help others when asked. Ya'll have fun doing things your way. :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

and why does my post say Ringbone?

:laughing: That never gets old

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

No Fair. Actually I think that post mentioned it as the "primary" reason, not the only one. There are others. It also expressed surprise that the only people who noticed were from AZ. No one who actually might want to attend the event gives a rats behind.

Heres a cut and paste explanation the cache owner gave in the nefga forums.

"I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the event posted for the Start of the run is a "Members Only" cache, meaning only Premium Members of Geocaching.com can view it. I did it as a joke/experiment to see if anyone would notice."

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

Hey, now theres an answer that I find acceptable (not that I agree with an event being PMO). Why couldnt that have been said way back at the beginning of this thread? Of course, if it was, we wouldnt have this fantastic thread filled with helpful replies. :laughing:

Edited January 13, 2009 by skraeling

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

They're just confused

Dude, they're from Arizona. Those folks have space aliens in their ground water. Of course they're confused. :laughing:

(Note: That comment was meant to be humorous, and in no way was it intended to cast a shadow on Arizona, or any other state where the liquid consumption of space aliens is the norm)

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

Honestly, in reviewing the 3 pages generated by this issue, I'm not seeing a lot of outrage from the NEFGA folks. I did see one somewhat terse answer, but since that guy drives a 'Yota, I forgive him for being grouchy. However, I do see a lot of outrage from folks who are not in NEFGA. Is that what you mean?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

TG, it doesn't make it "exclusive". It does limit who will attend an event though! I know I didn't buy a membership until I was certain I would stay with caching, I'm sure more people think this way than just myself! And dirt cheap is in the eye of the payer...some people have to be made to know the benefits before they actually feel the price is worth paying out, many are more than happy with a "free" acct! I didn't even buy a GPS (for caching) until I was sure...I had an old Maggie 315 which I used for mountain climbing! Had it not been for my first event, I wouldn't have known better equipment was available! Had I kept using that junk Maggie, I likely would have quit long ago!!

As for GPS...I've had MANY people come to my events and not even own a GPS! One in particular didn't use any GPS at all, just maps to find the 3 caches she had under her belt! When she saw how much fun the events were, she was right off asking about which GPS to buy!

I'd also add that I allow the state park I host my Lazy Hayes Days events to advertise the event in their newsletter! Making it members only might make those interested parties decide not to bother!!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

What, this event is in another state from the one that I currently live in? I would have to purchase plane tickets or drive countless hours to attend this event! I have been excluded and I am outraged! What about all those people that don't own cars! They've been excluded! EXCLUDED! I have a great aunt in Kentucky that does not own a GPS, have an account, nor does she use the internets! How on earth do you expect her to attend this life-altering event!!??

Good grief. The reviewer approved it. If there is an issue of guidelines and such it's between them and the reviewer. It's one event in one town in one state of just one country that has a caching population. Some of the regulars need to shelve their badges and move on.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Castle Mischief

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

My question is, why the outrage for us discussing it if your intent was to see if anyone would notice?

Honestly, in reviewing the 3 pages generated by this issue, I'm not seeing a lot of outrage from the NEFGA folks. I did see one somewhat terse answer, but since that guy drives a 'Yota, I forgive him for being grouchy. However, I do see a lot of outrage from folks who are not in NEFGA. Is that what you mean?

Is this where I am supposed to say I am sorry?????????? :laughing:

It was just That, To see if anyone would notice. It was not done to offend anyone or keep anyone away. It was simply done to Yank y'alls chain and see who would notice.

NEFGA is one of the best organizations world wide and we welcome anyone and everyone to our area.

I may have put a damper on the fun in this thread but I stand to tell you I am PROUD to be a part of this great group called NEFGA!

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

What, this event is in another state from the one that I currently live in? I would have to purchase plane tickets or drive countless hours to attend this event! I have been excluded and I am outraged! What about all those people that don't own cars! They've been excluded! EXCLUDED! I have a great aunt in Kentucky that does not own a GPS, have an account, nor does she use the internets! How on earth do you expect her to attend this life-altering event!!??

Good grief. The reviewer approved it. If there is an issue of guidelines and such it's between them and the reviewer. It's one event in one town in one state of just one country that has a caching population. Some of the regulars need to shelve their badges and move on.

And some need to learn manners...what's your point??

As I see it, we're having a discussion as to the reason why someone might want to have this type of event...is something wrong with that? We are still allowed to discuss things in the forums...right?? SHEESH! If you'd read more, you might understand this. Badges?? Not one person is saying they want this shut down, no one has said anything about asking for action.

Last I checked, you had a right to either read this or not, if it bothers you, opt for the not!!

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Good grief. The reviewer approved it. If there is an issue of guidelines and such it's between them and the reviewer. It's one event in one town in one state of just one country that has a caching population. Some of the regulars need to shelve their badges and move on.

THANK YOU, you have summed that up very well. :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

TG, it doesn't make it "exclusive". It does limit who will attend an event though! I know I didn't buy a membership until I was certain I would stay with caching, I'm sure more people think this way than just myself! And dirt cheap is in the eye of the payer...some people have to be made to know the benefits before they actually feel the price is worth paying out, many are more than happy with a "free" acct! I didn't even buy a GPS (for caching) until I was sure...I had an old Maggie 315 which I used for mountain climbing! Had it not been for my first event, I wouldn't have known better equipment was available! Had I kept using that junk Maggie, I likely would have quit long ago!!

As for GPS...I've had MANY people come to my events and not even own a GPS! One in particular didn't use any GPS at all, just maps to find the 3 caches she had under her belt! When she saw how much fun the events were, she was right off asking about which GPS to buy!

I'd also add that I allow the state park I host my Lazy Hayes Days events to advertise the event in their newsletter! Making it members only might make those interested parties decide not to bother!!

So i'm guessing that in addition to the "yanking people's chains" and "we did it to see if anyone would notice" reasons,,, the other reason is to try and force people to pony up the $3 gc.com membership fee?

I agree with fellow premium members in that i feel this fee is very small and totally worth it. But like Rockin Roddy has stated, many newbies probably want to get a feel for things before committing to a pay membership. I really don't think that using a tactic to exclude people who don't know yet or who have personal reasons for not paying, is a good thing when the event is listed on gc.com.

If having others pay membership is that important to you, then couldn't you possibly set up a more dedicated event?, not on gc.com of course! Maybe a "membership drive" type event of some sort listed on the Florida website?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

What, this event is in another state from the one that I currently live in? I would have to purchase plane tickets or drive countless hours to attend this event! I have been excluded and I am outraged! What about all those people that don't own cars! They've been excluded! EXCLUDED! I have a great aunt in Kentucky that does not own a GPS, have an account, nor does she use the internets! How on earth do you expect her to attend this life-altering event!!??

I will still buy breakfast for you and your great aunt, if you decide to attend! :laughing:

Good grief. The reviewer approved it. If there is an issue of guidelines and such it's between them and the reviewer. It's one event in one town in one state of just one country that has a caching population. Some of the regulars need to shelve their badges and move on.

Well summarized and stated!!! :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

And some need to learn manners...what's your point??

As I see it, we're having a discussion as to the reason why someone might want to have this type of event...is something wrong with that? We are still allowed to discuss things in the forums...right?? SHEESH! If you'd read more, you might understand this. Badges?? Not one person is saying they want this shut down, no one has said anything about asking for action.

Last I checked, you had a right to either read this or not, if it bothers you, opt for the not!!

My point is that what you are calling a discussion looks to me like beating the same horse post after post after post. There hasn't been a new position or idea since about the end of the first page. The hosts have already stated why it's a PM event, the few of you have already stated your disbelief in their reasons, you have already insulted them and their group. At yet here we are on page three of this merry-go-round with the same words in slightly different arrangements saying the same things over and over and over.

You're coming across as the cache police wether you intend to or not. You don't have to posts a SBA to earn your badge.

All. Over. Nothing.

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

If having others pay membership is that important to you, then couldn't you possibly set up a more dedicated event?, not on gc.com of course! Maybe a "membership drive" type event of some sort listed on the Florida website?

If you people only understood what this event is about :laughing: maybe just maybe you might see the light above the alien tech. beam.

I'm with IceCreamMan I should be BANNED from the fourms. :laughing:

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

TG, it doesn't make it "exclusive". It does limit who will attend an event though! I know I didn't buy a membership until I was certain I would stay with caching, I'm sure more people think this way than just myself! And dirt cheap is in the eye of the payer...some people have to be made to know the benefits before they actually feel the price is worth paying out, many are more than happy with a "free" acct! I didn't even buy a GPS (for caching) until I was sure...I had an old Maggie 315 which I used for mountain climbing! Had it not been for my first event, I wouldn't have known better equipment was available! Had I kept using that junk Maggie, I likely would have quit long ago!!

As for GPS...I've had MANY people come to my events and not even own a GPS! One in particular didn't use any GPS at all, just maps to find the 3 caches she had under her belt! When she saw how much fun the events were, she was right off asking about which GPS to buy!

I'd also add that I allow the state park I host my Lazy Hayes Days events to advertise the event in their newsletter! Making it members only might make those interested parties decide not to bother!!

OK then, let's put things in perspective. If 99% of events were PMO events then I would definitely understand the concern and I'm sure Groundspeak would change the policy. However, I bet the percentage of all events that are PMO events is less than 0.1%. So all the newbies still have tons of events they can attend that do not cost an extra three bucks.

Edit: If that doesn't convince ya, then I never will.... :laughing:

Edited January 13, 2009 by TrailGators

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

And some need to learn manners...what's your point??

As I see it, we're having a discussion as to the reason why someone might want to have this type of event...is something wrong with that? We are still allowed to discuss things in the forums...right?? SHEESH! If you'd read more, you might understand this. Badges?? Not one person is saying they want this shut down, no one has said anything about asking for action.

Last I checked, you had a right to either read this or not, if it bothers you, opt for the not!!

My point is that what you are calling a discussion looks to me like beating the same horse post after post after post. There hasn't been a new position or idea since about the end of the first page. The hosts have already stated why it's a PM event, the few of you have already stated your disbelief in their reasons, you have already insulted them and their group. At yet here we are on page three of this merry-go-round with the same words in slightly different arrangements saying the same things over and over and over.

You're coming across as the cache police wether you intend to or not. You don't have to posts a SBA to earn your badge.

All. Over. Nothing.

:laughing: The best you can do is try to insult? And please show me where I insulted ANYONE!

Edited January 13, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

TG, it doesn't make it "exclusive". It does limit who will attend an event though! I know I didn't buy a membership until I was certain I would stay with caching, I'm sure more people think this way than just myself! And dirt cheap is in the eye of the payer...some people have to be made to know the benefits before they actually feel the price is worth paying out, many are more than happy with a "free" acct! I didn't even buy a GPS (for caching) until I was sure...I had an old Maggie 315 which I used for mountain climbing! Had it not been for my first event, I wouldn't have known better equipment was available! Had I kept using that junk Maggie, I likely would have quit long ago!!

As for GPS...I've had MANY people come to my events and not even own a GPS! One in particular didn't use any GPS at all, just maps to find the 3 caches she had under her belt! When she saw how much fun the events were, she was right off asking about which GPS to buy!

I'd also add that I allow the state park I host my Lazy Hayes Days events to advertise the event in their newsletter! Making it members only might make those interested parties decide not to bother!!

OK then, let's put things in perspective. If 99% of events were PMO events then I would definitely understand the concern and I'm sure Groundspeak would change the policy. However, I bet the percentage of all events that are PMO events is less than 0.1%. So all the newbies still have tons of events they can attend that do not cost an extra three bucks.

Oh, I see your confusion, TG!! I'm not concerned about it, I am observing is all! If you read waaaay back, you'll note I said I could care less what others do, this isn't what I'd do! I'm more than happy to discuss it with anyone who wants to though....it's a whopping +3* here with blowing snow!!!

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

If having others pay membership is that important to you, then couldn't you possibly set up a more dedicated event?, not on gc.com of course! Maybe a "membership drive" type event of some sort listed on the Florida website?

If you people only understood what this event is about maybe just maybe you might see the light above the alien tech. beam.

I'm with IceCreamMan I should be BANNED from the fourms.

I think we'd like to understand, but no one will give an answer better than "because we can" or such!

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Ok from the guidlines for an event cache

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers

This is the first sentance, being a premium members only event excludes some cachers from attending the event. IMO PMO events are a violation of the guidlines.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from becoming Premium Members other than personal choice. So it is their personal choice not to attend a PMO event. Therefore, NO ONE is excluded.

You are correct in your line of thinking...but consider it from a newb standpoint for a second, the newb (who could benefit very much from an event) who isn't sure whether they'd like to continue on and maybe even buy a membership. I personally would rather that newb feel welcome in the area, welcomed to caching! I wouldn't expect a newb to pay out money just to come to my event, I want them there to begin with! And I certainly don't want them to feel like it's some kind of "member's only" thing where they would now feel uncomfortable, like they don't belong or something!

Roddy, I have never understood this because a membership is dirt cheap. You have to shell out far more to buy a GPS to have anything in common with the people that attend these events. So I would be curious to hear what amount makes a membership "exclusive."

TG, it doesn't make it "exclusive". It does limit who will attend an event though! I know I didn't buy a membership until I was certain I would stay with caching, I'm sure more people think this way than just myself! And dirt cheap is in the eye of the payer...some people have to be made to know the benefits before they actually feel the price is worth paying out, many are more than happy with a "free" acct! I didn't even buy a GPS (for caching) until I was sure...I had an old Maggie 315 which I used for mountain climbing! Had it not been for my first event, I wouldn't have known better equipment was available! Had I kept using that junk Maggie, I likely would have quit long ago!!

As for GPS...I've had MANY people come to my events and not even own a GPS! One in particular didn't use any GPS at all, just maps to find the 3 caches she had under her belt! When she saw how much fun the events were, she was right off asking about which GPS to buy!

I'd also add that I allow the state park I host my Lazy Hayes Days events to advertise the event in their newsletter! Making it members only might make those interested parties decide not to bother!!

OK then, let's put things in perspective. If 99% of events were PMO events then I would definitely understand the concern and I'm sure Groundspeak would change the policy. However, I bet the percentage of all events that are PMO events is less than 0.1%. So all the newbies still have tons of events they can attend that do not cost an extra three bucks.

Oh, I see your confusion, TG!! I'm not concerned about it, I am observing is all! If you read waaaay back, you'll note I said I could care less what others do, this isn't what I'd do! I'm more than happy to discuss it with anyone who wants to though....it's a whopping +3* here with blowing snow!!!

Sorry, I missed that. There are soooo many threads with people griping about paying 3 bucks that it just gets old sometimes...

I heard that Grand Forks, ND.set a low record temp of 37 degrees below zero this morning (without the wind). Brrrrrr!

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

Reading through this thread trying to get caught up I have instead lost interest. Seems that everyone wants it to be about one event put on by one group. And it seems to me that that group is having a lot of fun stirring the pot. Add to that that the other people in the thread don't seem to realize their buttons are being pushed and it's just becoming a great big circular joke with no end in site. Sort of like most threads around here.

At any rate I'm done. I think I am gonna go work on my bike. I know what to expect from an honest effort turning wrenches.

And yes, arguing breakfast was the fun part. We should start an off topic thread for that. Is the OT forum still member only?

Posted January 13, 2009 · January 13, 2009

And yes, arguing breakfast was the fun part. We should start an off topic thread for that. Is the OT forum still member only?

Let me know if you start one. I'm all for knowing the best breakfast places around when I travel... :laughing:

Edited January 14, 2009 by TrailGators

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

OK, now I remember there is long standing animousity between some members of NEFGA and these forums, dating back to when y'all hosted Geowoodstock. Then 2nd one, I believe.

Good memory. Except it started with GW3.

While that has nothing to do with this thread directly, it probably explains the MYOB attitude of many of the NEFGA posters on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem is that TPTB frequently interpret what is discussed here as a reflection of the opinions of the geocaching community has a whole. The whinny wheel gets the grease, so to speak. IMO, there is a wide disparity between the high post count folks and Joe the Cacher when it comes to opinions about stuff like this.

People who have never posted an event expound on what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed at events they will never attend. Pretty soon you've the reviewers chirping in under their reviewer and non-reviewer personas and then Micheal goes and archives and locks caches without so much as a "hey there pardner". Even if that doesn't happen here, I've seen it happen before. All the while the people who actually hide and find caches and post and attend events are out doing it, and not bloviating here. So their voices aren't heard.

I got an email about this thread from an instigator here (you know who you are), and got a chuckle out of it and posted a link on our thread for the event on our own forum. That drew a lot of NEFGA folks in and, knowing some of the history, it's not surprising some got a little passionate about it. Mainly we all just had a little fun stiring the pot.

Now, much as I hate the idea of explaining myself in these forums, I'll expound a little bit on this event.

I've been wanting to post a local event as Members Only for a long time. Just to see if anyone would notice. By anyone, I mean the people in this area and others whose opinions actually matter to me, not people in AZ and NY. I certainly never expected such a national dust up.

In this area there are a lot of members only caches, so active cachers are almost always Premium Members. It wouldn't have surprised me if the event came and went with no one even noticing. Problem was that, like most of the people here, when I post and event I want to attract newbees, so it just never seemed appropriate to post an event as members only just as an experiment.

This particular event is unusual. It's primary purpose is to see off some cachers on a 24 hour cache run through Northern Florida. Bring bugs for them to delivery. And take care of some local geo-issues. Its a space limited venue and we don't really have the time, space, or resources to spread the welcome mat as we normally would for newbees. In fact, it a newbee shows up I'll be a little embarssed because I'll probably be a poor host for them. In addition, for organizational purposes, I wanted to have the Audit Log available. So it seemed like a good time to run my experiment.

That's it in a nutshell. No hidden agenda to drive up sales of Premium Memberships (not that there would be anything wrong with that). No attempt to exclude anyone. Just a little variation in one of dozens of events to add a little fun.

While things might get testy in these forums, should any of you actually show up at the event, you would find a warm and friendly welcome. We would love to have you.

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

OK, now I remember there is long standing animousity between some members of NEFGA and these forums, dating back to when y'all hosted Geowoodstock. Then 2nd one, I believe.

Good memory. Except it started with GW3.

While that has nothing to do with this thread directly, it probably explains the MYOB attitude of many of the NEFGA posters on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem is that TPTB frequently interpret what is discussed here as a reflection of the opinions of the geocaching community has a whole. The whinny wheel gets the grease, so to speak. IMO, there is a wide disparity between the high post count folks and Joe the Cacher when it comes to opinions about stuff like this.

People who have never posted an event expound on what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed at events they will never attend. Pretty soon you've the reviewers chirping in under their reviewer and non-reviewer personas and then Micheal goes and archives and locks caches without so much as a "hey there pardner". Even if that doesn't happen here, I've seen it happen before. All the while the people who actually hide and find caches and post and attend events are out doing it, and not bloviating here. So their voices aren't heard.

I got an email about this thread from an instigator here (you know who you are), and got a chuckle out of it and posted a link on our thread for the event on our own forum. That drew a lot of NEFGA folks in and, knowing some of the history, it's not surprising some got a little passionate about it. Mainly we all just had a little fun stiring the pot.

Now, much as I hate the idea of explaining myself in these forums, I'll expound a little bit on this event.

I've been wanting to post a local event as Members Only for a long time. Just to see if anyone would notice. By anyone, I mean the people in this area and others whose opinions actually matter to me, not people in AZ and NY. I certainly never expected such a national dust up.

In this area there are a lot of members only caches, so active cachers are almost always Premium Members. It wouldn't have surprised me if the event came and went with no one even noticing. Problem was that, like most of the people here, when I post and event I want to attract newbees, so it just never seemed appropriate to post an event as members only just as an experiment.

This particular event is unusual. It's primary purpose is to see off some cachers on a 24 hour cache run through Northern Florida. Bring bugs for them to delivery. And take care of some local geo-issues. Its a space limited venue and we don't really have the time, space, or resources to spread the welcome mat as we normally would for newbees. In fact, it a newbee shows up I'll be a little embarssed because I'll probably be a poor host for them. In addition, for organizational purposes, I wanted to have the Audit Log available. So it seemed like a good time to run my experiment.

That's it in a nutshell. No hidden agenda to drive up sales of Premium Memberships (not that there would be anything wrong with that). No attempt to exclude anyone. Just a little variation in one of dozens of events to add a little fun.

While things might get testy in these forums, should any of you actually show up at the event, you would find a warm and friendly welcome. We would love to have you.

Thanks for the explanation. Had this been posted, oh 133 entries ago, we could have avoided all this fun.

And sorry, have no idea what the Geowoodstock history is so, I dont understand the MYOB no that part.

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

OK, now I remember there is long standing animousity between some members of NEFGA and these forums, dating back to when y'all hosted Geowoodstock. Then 2nd one, I believe.

Good memory. Except it started with GW3.

While that has nothing to do with this thread directly, it probably explains the MYOB attitude of many of the NEFGA posters on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem is that TPTB frequently interpret what is discussed here as a reflection of the opinions of the geocaching community has a whole. The whinny wheel gets the grease, so to speak. IMO, there is a wide disparity between the high post count folks and Joe the Cacher when it comes to opinions about stuff like this.

People who have never posted an event expound on what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed at events they will never attend. Pretty soon you've the reviewers chirping in under their reviewer and non-reviewer personas and then Micheal goes and archives and locks caches without so much as a "hey there pardner". Even if that doesn't happen here, I've seen it happen before. All the while the people who actually hide and find caches and post and attend events are out doing it, and not bloviating here. So their voices aren't heard.

I got an email about this thread from an instigator here (you know who you are), and got a chuckle out of it and posted a link on our thread for the event on our own forum. That drew a lot of NEFGA folks in and, knowing some of the history, it's not surprising some got a little passionate about it. Mainly we all just had a little fun stiring the pot.

Now, much as I hate the idea of explaining myself in these forums, I'll expound a little bit on this event.

I've been wanting to post a local event as Members Only for a long time. Just to see if anyone would notice. By anyone, I mean the people in this area and others whose opinions actually matter to me, not people in AZ and NY. I certainly never expected such a national dust up.

In this area there are a lot of members only caches, so active cachers are almost always Premium Members. It wouldn't have surprised me if the event came and went with no one even noticing. Problem was that, like most of the people here, when I post and event I want to attract newbees, so it just never seemed appropriate to post an event as members only just as an experiment.

This particular event is unusual. It's primary purpose is to see off some cachers on a 24 hour cache run through Northern Florida. Bring bugs for them to delivery. And take care of some local geo-issues. Its a space limited venue and we don't really have the time, space, or resources to spread the welcome mat as we normally would for newbees. In fact, it a newbee shows up I'll be a little embarssed because I'll probably be a poor host for them. In addition, for organizational purposes, I wanted to have the Audit Log available. So it seemed like a good time to run my experiment.

That's it in a nutshell. No hidden agenda to drive up sales of Premium Memberships (not that there would be anything wrong with that). No attempt to exclude anyone. Just a little variation in one of dozens of events to add a little fun.

While things might get testy in these forums, should any of you actually show up at the event, you would find a warm and friendly welcome. We would love to have you.

Thanks for the explanation. Had this been posted, oh 133 entries ago, we could have avoided all this fun.

And sorry, have no idea what the Geowoodstock history is so, I dont understand the MYOB no that part.

Oh no..... that just won't do! We can't end this thread YET! We've barely even got started. I was thinking of telling the AZ crowd we didn't like their dusty selves or make some disparaging Yankee comment or something to continue the animosity. Let's go..... someone say we're in it for the money or SOMETHING!

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

BTW........ I haven't heard any NEFGA area people complaining...... LMAO!

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

DAMMIT MAN! That last comment cost me another nudge to my post count. I've got to get this under control......

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

BTW........ I haven't heard any NEFGA area people complaining...... LMAO!

I don't think that you will hear anyone in NEFGA complaining about this event...

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

DAMMIT MAN! That last comment cost me another nudge to my post count. I've got to get this under control......

Paint! 264 posts? Cheese n Rice. Think of your family. :anicute:

Not only that, since you've quit logging your finds, every post means your Post to Find ratio creeps higher. Ouch.

Edited January 14, 2009 by IceCreamMan

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

Thanks for the explanation. Had this been posted, oh 133 entries ago, we could have avoided all this fun.

Had this been handled by an email rather than opening a thread on the forums, that is the explanation you would have gotten.

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

Thanks for the explanation. Had this been posted, oh 133 entries ago, we could have avoided all this fun.

Had this been handled by an email rather than opening a thread on the forums, that is the explanation you would have gotten.

Now, where would the fun have been in that?? :anicute: Thanks for the explanation, finally an answer which didn't just make all of you look like SAs!!

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

Is this where I am supposed to say I am sorry??????????

No Sir. This is where you're supposed to say, "Riffster, I'm sending you a .gpx file with the final locations of all my puzzle caches". :anicute:

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

Is this where I am supposed to say I am sorry??????????

No Sir. This is where you're supposed to say, "Riffster, I'm sending you a .gpx file with the final locations of all my puzzle caches".

Riffster I am not sending you a .gpx file, but next time you are up this way I would be proud to show you around and let you find them. :anicute:

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

Like has been said a few times in this thread,, it was curiosity more than anything that had some of us asking questions. I figured there was a reason, besides to yank people's chains, for doing it this way.

I understand why regular pmo caches are placed and have no problems with them at all. However, i'm still not sold on the idea of making a gc.com event pmo. I still feel that events listed here should be open to everyone without having to guess, ask, or jump through hoops to attend. I can certainly understand having a gathering to conduct business and/or just have friends get together but i, myself, wouldn't list these on gc.com.

Can i ask one more question? Oooops, make that two :anicute: . I don't think that our little group over here would ever list an event as pmo so i'm curious,,, did a majority of NEFGA members agree to make the event pmo or was it decided by a person or two?

Anyways, Thanks for the better explanation, this has helped to see things in a better light!

Posted January 14, 2009 · January 14, 2009

did a majority of NEFGA members agree to make the event pmo or was it decided by a person or two?

NEFGA is such a large, diverse group, that I don't think they would collectively agree on more than a few essential ideals:

1 ) Beer is good.

2 ) Cooked animal is good.

3 ) Jeeps are good.

4 ) Toyotas are good. (they say that to make Champ feel better) :cry:

5 ) Events are good.

6 ) Caching is fun.

As someone who has hosted several events, I've never done so via committee. I just type them up and hit "Submit".

I assume Dave did the same.

Posted January 15, 2009 · January 15, 2009

did a majority of NEFGA members agree to make the event pmo or was it decided by a person or two?

NEFGA is such a large, diverse group, that I don't think they would collectively agree on more than a few essential ideals:

1 ) Beer is good.

2 ) Cooked animal is good.

3 ) Jeeps are good.

4 ) Toyotas are good. (they say that to make Champ feel better)

5 ) Events are good.

6 ) Caching is fun.

As someone who has hosted several events, I've never done so via committee. I just type them up and hit "Submit".

I assume Dave did the same.

Correctamudo. In these parts we like to keep such decissions dictatorial so as to avoid discussions like this one. BTW, we're flexible on the cooked animal thing. We had a vegetarian member once. Turned out he was delicious. It's all about the sauce.

Posted January 15, 2009 · January 15, 2009

Does it mean that a thread is a great success or an abysmal failure if it forces PaintFiction to post? :cry:

Posted January 15, 2009 · January 15, 2009

Does it mean that a thread is a great success or an abysmal failure if it forces PaintFiction to post?

Nope. It just means that after all these years the fourms are still the same as they have always been.

El Diablo

Posted January 15, 2009 · January 15, 2009

So close to 4 pages Paint!

Posted January 15, 2009 · January 15, 2009

Does it mean that a thread is a great success or an abysmal failure if it forces PaintFiction to post?

Nope. It just means that after all these years the fourms are still the same as they have always been.

El Diablo

Amen!

Members only event?!?

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